Latest / The BSB Podcast / Exclusive Interview: Playwright Stan Zimmerman of 'Silver Foxes'

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Exclusive Interview: Playwright Stan Zimmerman of 'Silver Foxes' · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Thank you so much for being here today, Stan, talk about Silver Foxes.
• 0:02
  I got to see it last week.
• 0:03
  was fantastic.
• 0:06
  Thank you.
• 0:06
  I'm gonna be there the last weekend to see it.
• 0:09
  A couple of times.
• 0:11
  Yes, it's very exciting and all my friends are going and then we're gonna do a talk back on Sunday the 26th.
• 0:18
  So if you haven't seen it or just want to sneak in and hear me blab a little bit, more than we're gonna do here, uh pop in there.
• 0:25
  I've never been to the theater so I've just heard wonderful things and I've been talking with Joe and hounding him for years.
• 0:33
  Finally.
• 0:34
  the show.
• 0:35
  Finally, he relented and then here we are.
• 0:37
  And you know, we actually have the Silver Foxes 2 That was commissioned.
• 0:43
  we originated and world premiered at Uptown Players in Dallas, a wonderful theater company.
• 0:49
  And they were so kind to us.
• 0:51
  We had such a wonderful experience.
• 0:52
  Michael Urie from Ugly Betty and Shrinking and Once Upon a Mattress and Byron Seller, blah, blah, blah.
• 0:58
  um He directed it.
• 1:02
  And then...
• 1:03
  this past beginning of this year, hired us to and commissioned us to write a sequel, Silver Foxes 2.
• 1:11
  So we just handed it in to Michael and we're going to probably do a reading of it sometime early next year and then uh world premiere it down in Dallas.
• 1:20
  And then I think we're going to need to put them in repertory in Ferndale.
• 1:25
  Yeah.
• 1:27
  I, you know, the way that it ends, thought, was like, this needs another part.
• 1:31
  Like, there's so much more life to these characters.
• 1:33
  I did not want anything and Michael's, it's a trilogy, it's a trilogy.
• 1:36
  And I'm like, Michael, can we just get the first one up and going?
• 1:40
  And it's still our dream to bring it to New York.
• 1:42
  And I was just in London and talking it up there.
• 1:45
  think that sensibility and humor would go over great there.
• 1:51
  and it actually, I will spill some tea.
• 1:54
  This has not been announced and I won't give specifics, but.
• 1:57
  When I was over there, I got an email and it's going to be its first European production.
• 2:04
  An English language company in Amsterdam wants to do it in August of next year.
• 2:11
  So I don't know.
• 2:11
  Have you been to Amsterdam?
• 2:13
  haven't.
• 2:15
  Gonna have to.
• 2:16
  yeah, so I mean, there's many reasons to go there and I could start listing them.
• 2:20
  I've been there twice and of course fell in love twice there.
• 2:24
  uh It's just magical with the, you know, all the little water stuff, the canals and uh just everything and the people are so sweet and it's just a beautiful, beautiful uh city
• 2:36
  and country really.
• 2:37
  So the perfect home for silver foxes to go to.
• 2:39
  I think so, and I didn't know they even had an English language theater company, and so that will be really exciting there.
• 2:46
  obviously it's just a gay mecca, and I think it'll be right after the big world pride that's gonna be there.
• 2:53
  So hopefully some gays will be staggering out of their stupors and come over to the theater.
• 3:00
  Absolutely.
• 3:01
  So speaking of silver foxes, what was kind of the like how did this show originate?
• 3:06
  Like where did it begin for you?
• 3:07
  It actually began as a TV idea.
• 3:10
  you know, Logo, the TV network.
• 3:13
  So, you know, they started the RuPaul Drag Race was on Logo.
• 3:17
  And uh they asked us to come in for a meeting and they said, we've been talking about this for like six months and you're the only writers that have to write this.
• 3:26
  We thought we were like being punked or something and we didn't know why.
• 3:30
  And then we heard they wanted to do a Gay Men's Golden Girls.
• 3:33
  We're like, okay.
• 3:34
  And we like doing our research.
• 3:38
  We were brought up properly.
• 3:39
  And um we fell upon this documentary called Before Stonewall.
• 3:44
  ah And it talked about um the trouble that elder gays were having and lesbians all the years of trying to come out of the closet.
• 3:57
  And then when they get older and they go into assisted living, they had to go back in the closet.
• 4:01
  Because a lot of these places are
• 4:04
  very conservative or run by religious groups.
• 4:07
  imagine your whole life, you know, and it was difficult for me coming out, uh but even for people older than me, and then suddenly having to reverse that and go back in.
• 4:19
  And we just thought we'd like to have like a strong realistic underpinning to everything we do.
• 4:25
  I mean, if you look at our history of writing Golden to Gilmore, even Roseanne and the Lesbian Kiss, it all was...
• 4:33
  based in some real juicy stuff uh and we feel that's the best way to find comedy and drama.
• 4:40
  You know, it's something that's, you know, I'm a 30 year old gay man and even my coming off story is a lot different than people before me and people after me.
• 4:47
  But it didn't even cross my mind until I saw the show about how difficult it like elder, you know, elder gays going into an assisted living home have to face.
• 4:56
  Like it never even dawned on me.
• 4:57
  I'm like, these are struggles that we don't have, us young people don't even have to think about sometimes.
• 5:01
  so I think it's important for entertainment to educate but also with humor and with love and I think a commonality in all of our work is you feel a heart in the show and Formed
• 5:14
  families I think are very important and you know, that's what we have to do is you know in our community is to especially Being shunned.
• 5:24
  I was doing my suicide awareness play right before I go at Castech a couple years ago
• 5:30
  in the play, I'm the narrator and I talk about being openly gay and after a lot of my friends of my age said that was so brave to just say it out loud in a theater of 200
• 5:44
  people and I was like it is and then I have to remember in the Midwest and especially, you know growing up in Southfield I know what that is like.
• 5:54
  It is just a different
• 5:56
  community and neighborhoods and you're worried about what other people would think of you or being shunned or not being employed and I mean the many things.
• 6:04
  uh So as far as we've come it did remind me that that's still a big deal for people of my age to just proudly just state a fact of which is an important part of me it's not all of
• 6:19
  me but it's it definitely gives me a very interesting perspective.
• 6:24
  You know, you're absolutely right.
• 6:26
  I mean, you didn't even know how people are gonna react sometimes.
• 6:29
  Still to this day, there's some people you're like, do I tell them, do I not tell them?
• 6:33
  But I can only imagine what it was like, you know, back when you were growing up.
• 6:37
  Well, people are often shocked when we tell them we had to stay in the closet on Golden Girls because they think of the show as so progressive, but the writing staff didn't know.
• 6:48
  Our representative said, do not tell anybody if there are any functions to do with the show.
• 6:54
  You bring a woman as your date.
• 6:57
  So imagine going to work and they say, well, what did you do this weekend?
• 7:01
  And you can't say if you went to a gay bar or you know.
• 7:04
  Pride Festival, anything.
• 7:06
  um So it was a very different environment and you know this was all pre Ellen, pre Will and Grace, you know and I think doing Golden Girls, you know, and it was so open about the
• 7:22
  lesbians and you know her brother coming out in the show.
• 7:27
  uh
• 7:28
  You know, everybody, we all stand on each other's shoulders and I think like we could never have done the Roseanne Kiss episode oh if it hadn't been for uh Golden Girls and
• 7:39
  then Soap Before That, which Susan Harris also created.
• 7:43
  That's, that feels so, you like you mentioned about like behind the scenes having to still live in the closet, because you're right, Golden Girls has always kind of stood as like
• 7:53
  this test of like, you know, acceptance and being who they are, but behind the scenes being told to like bring a woman to the, you know, to the premieres and stuff, that has to
• 8:02
  feel very odd.
• 8:04
  It is, and you know, when I was writing my book, I started thinking about what would have really happened.
• 8:11
  Like what were we afraid of?
• 8:12
  Were we really afraid that they would be shocked and say we're not, we wouldn't have hired you?
• 8:19
  I don't know.
• 8:20
  And then it kind of switched.
• 8:23
  But it's also hard, imagine going to work and you can't be your full self, especially in a creative job like that.
• 8:28
  You're supposed to just share your stories of what your life is.
• 8:31
  And so much of that was cut off.
• 8:34
  um But then it turned around on Roseanne where Tom Arnold was running through the halls of the office going,
• 8:41
  my gay guys.
• 8:42
  uh total reverse and then suddenly we were celebrated for being gay and they wanted our gay point of view on the show.
• 8:51
  Do you feel like, guess, having kind of lived through that, what was it like when you finally were able to talk about it like on Roseanne, or where it was a little more open by
• 8:59
  the time that probably Gilmore Girls came around, you know?
• 9:03
  But then you look at Gilmore Girls and you know, I don't know how familiar you are with the show, but Michelle, you know, that works with Lorelai at the Inn, when we came on the
• 9:13
  show, we said to Amy, well, let's give him a boyfriend.
• 9:16
  And she goes, he's not gay.
• 9:17
  And we're like, wait a minute.
• 9:20
  I have really good gaydar and I'm sorry, but the man is gay.
• 9:24
  That character is gay.
• 9:26
  And she, think for whatever reason, I don't really know.
• 9:30
  She did not want to go there.
• 9:31
  So when you get hired on
• 9:33
  staff you give your opinion and I learned the hard way very early on uh don't hold on to things if they're running the show they're the show runners here's my opinion and this is
• 9:45
  what I would do but it's not my show so you know and then eventually when they brought the show back he did have a boyfriend so I knew I could tell always there um but yes it's been
• 9:59
  really interesting to be
• 10:01
  there and see the evolution.
• 10:02
  oh
• 10:04
  We finally did come out to the writers room.
• 10:07
  You know, you're in the room with mostly straight white men.
• 10:10
  Men.
• 10:12
  And so there'd be these big windows and, you know, in studio always you have people walking by.
• 10:17
  So then it just started to be, they just had so many questions and they would point out the window to like this hot girl and say, nothing.
• 10:26
  And we're going, sorry, I didn't feel anything.
• 10:28
  And then a hot guy would walk by and we'd go to them, nothing.
• 10:31
  So it was very.
• 10:35
  And sometimes I would just have to tell the staff, stop asking questions.
• 10:38
  Let's write the show.
• 10:40
  You know, don't, you know, they just really wanted to know.
• 10:43
  And then on one show, we were out of the room writing an episode, I guess.
• 10:48
  And the writer's assistant told us that they had a discussion that if the men were on a deserted island, it's always on a deserted island, and they had to have sex with either me
• 11:00
  or my writing partner, Jim, which would they choose?
• 11:03
  This is what's happening in a writer's room to avoid writing.
• 11:08
  Yeah.
• 11:12
  Slightly, but then I got the show runner, so I felt like, you know, I scored.
• 11:17
  Yeah.
• 11:19
  So what is kind of your process then for developing specifically, I Silver Foxes, but for any project, you have the idea.
• 11:26
  Do you just start writing right away or do you map it out?
• 11:30
  How did Silver Foxes kind of come to be in that aspect?
• 11:33
  We're very big on structure.
• 11:35
  I think it's very important.
• 11:36
  And I teach writing.
• 11:39
  I've been mentoring writers in these castles in Europe once a year.
• 11:44
  I just came back from two weeks in Spain.
• 11:47
  It's called Rocaberti Writers' Retreat.
• 11:49
  It's a horrible job.
• 11:50
  I have to drink wine every night and eat good food.
• 11:52
  It's just awful.
• 11:54
  uh And you know, there's occasional ghosts in these castles because they're like 14th, 15th century castles.
• 12:00
  uh But I tell all the writers,
• 12:03
  You have to have a strong foundation.
• 12:05
  And a lot of times, new writers of any age, they just start piling on and writing, writing, writing, writing, writing.
• 12:12
  But the base of it isn't strong enough to hold it.
• 12:14
  So I have to go back to what is the story you want to tell?
• 12:18
  Whether it's a TV show or movie, it could be a book or a play.
• 12:23
  What do you want to tell?
• 12:24
  What's the theme?
• 12:25
  What are the high frequency elements of it?
• 12:27
  By high frequency, I mean stuff that again comes from the heart.
• 12:32
  A lot of times people want to write
• 12:33
  about work or a house or you know those are low frequency what is going to make the audience feel and you get that in something like Golden Girls when they all sit around the
• 12:44
  table they talk about their feelings and I think that's why we like to write mostly for women because women are just more in touch with their feelings and as men we're raised not
• 12:56
  to talk about things and to buck up and be strong and luckily with something like
• 13:03
  foxes, know, gay men were always gabbing and gossiping and bitching and complaining and singing and so it opened a whole world for us to delve into some really interesting
• 13:15
  stories and not just about how people were raised, about how they, you know, moved through the AIDS crisis.
• 13:22
  uh
• 13:24
  every situation, families being married, their perspective.
• 13:28
  And that was really, it so cool to do that in the form of a play where you have, you know, an hour, 20, 30, 40 minutes, not be confined to, you know, that 22, 23 minutes of a
• 13:43
  sitcom.
• 13:44
  What I loved about Silver Foxes is that you kind of mentioned about how, yeah, men are socialized to be less emotional.
• 13:51
  As a psychologist, it's one of sometimes the most challenging parts of my day when you get a man in there they just don't want to talk about their feelings, but they know they need
• 13:58
  to talk about something.
• 13:59
  Yeah.
• 14:00
  I love that you had somebody kind of like Chuck, who is a little more of like the old school, you know, not talk about your feelings and stuff.
• 14:08
  And then you had moments where him and Benny kind of like specifically there's a scene where they're sleeping on a pullout couch together and there's quite a bit of emotion in
• 14:15
  that.
• 14:15
  And even when they're not saying stuff, you are feeding off of each other.
• 14:18
  I thought as I was watching, I like, that's such a beautiful thing because it shows that like we can break down those barriers at any age, you know.
• 14:25
  I think that is important and that scene was not originally in the very first draft and we really wanted to have that touching moment and what it's like to share a bed and hear
• 14:37
  those sounds from somebody in the bathroom.
• 14:40
  I think that's why I've been afraid of having a relationship.
• 14:43
  They have to hear all that and they're gonna stay with you?
• 14:46
  I don't think so.
• 14:47
  I'd be like...
• 14:49
  Either I would be or they'd the first one to the door, know, just dust.
• 14:52
  So I thought that was really fun to explore.
• 14:55
  again, Golden Girls for us was like comedy writing class 101.
• 15:00
  And we really learned from someone like Susan Harris who created a show with four distinct voices.
• 15:06
  They all were very, very different.
• 15:08
  So I think that taught us in every...
• 15:12
  piece of content that we created, whether it was TV, film, or theater, have very strong voices.
• 15:18
  So you could see uh Chuck not being able to verbalize.
• 15:24
  And then we learned from Betty Thomas on the Brady Bunch movies, everything had to have an arc.
• 15:28
  So it's great to think of, he started there where he couldn't really talk.
• 15:33
  You know, we have a joke, you know, without a cocktail in his hand.
• 15:35
  uh Liquid courage as they speak of it.
• 15:39
  I wouldn't know anything about that.
• 15:40
  And then when he can, you feel like, yes, you're talking.
• 15:45
  You're letting it out.
• 15:46
  Doesn't that feel better?
• 15:47
  And I think especially with everything that's going on in the world, we kind of all go to our corners, and I think it's important.
• 15:55
  And that's kind of the theme of Silver Foxes too, is like, where can we connect and have those messy discussions and move forward?
• 16:03
  You know, absolutely.
• 16:04
  loved that.
• 16:05
  Not only did I have, you had the Chuck, the Benny, the Cecil, but then you had the Twink who there's a few times where they're talking to him and he's so vastly different than the
• 16:13
  rest of them.
• 16:14
  And they're like, they're still finding common ground.
• 16:16
  Oh, they're explaining things to him.
• 16:17
  And I was like, there is a beauty to the fact that we can all come together no matter what, you know, we can have conversations, conversations that the Twink and people, you
• 16:25
  know, of that age bracket should be listening to and having and carrying on that knowledge.
• 16:31
  you know, I don't know how deep you go into TikTok, but there's been some TikTok creators, young, that are bitching about old men, older gay men that are wanting to talk to them and
• 16:44
  kind of disrespectfully.
• 16:45
  And then there's older gay content creators.
• 16:48
  They're saying, wait a minute, you guys, like, we all are in, you know, in the same boat.
• 16:54
  Let's help each other out and be respectful.
• 16:56
  And I think that that shows within our play.
• 17:00
  you think the twink is going to, you know, they don't even know his name because their friend Jerry keeps switching them out like, you know, loaner cars.
• 17:08
  And then they realized, there's really a lot more to him than you think.
• 17:13
  And that was cool to write that.
• 17:16
  I mean, because you, I love that you gave, like you said, distinct voices.
• 17:20
  They're all so fully formed characters, like not one of them, because for a second there, you kind of see the twink and he's kind of like a caricature of like what a twink would
• 17:28
  be.
• 17:28
  And you're like, okay, what's gonna happen to him?
• 17:30
  And by the end he's like, no, he's a full character.
• 17:31
  He has thoughts, feelings, you know, he's not just the silly, you know, boyfriend of somebody else.
• 17:38
  we wanted the audience to follow the path of the guy thinking he's just that.
• 17:43
  And then realizing, oh, we've judged him.
• 17:46
  If you can take that audience on the same ride and then you're going, whoops, I prejudged him.
• 17:52
  There's a lot more to him.
• 17:53
  And then he has a really interesting backstory and what that's like to, you know, what's his story with his family and coming out and being gay.
• 18:02
  And uh so that was great to explore that in all the different ages and types of men.
• 18:09
  When it comes to these characters, was there one that was kind of fully formed in your head first, or do they all kind of develop together as you're writing?
• 18:16
  Well, I'm sure you're gonna guess the character of Cecil we had in mind, Leslie Jordan from Will and Greg.
• 18:24
  of sense.
• 18:25
  I mean, we just heard him.
• 18:27
  was like that was who we, know, it was, he has, he has such a specific sound.
• 18:32
  And when we went to do, um, we were handing the script in, it was the TV pilot of it.
• 18:39
  I didn't know him.
• 18:39
  I just cold called him and I just threw my credits out, which I tend to do when I need somebody.
• 18:46
  And, um, he was just like, I'll be there.
• 18:49
  What day, what time.
• 18:50
  And, then we went after George Takei for Chuck.
• 18:54
  We didn't know him either.
• 18:55
  And then he's become a dear, friend.
• 18:58
  And, you know, he's very stoic.
• 19:00
  So that was very much like, you know, the Chuck character.
• 19:03
  uh So, I mean, obviously the way Leslie uh passed was oh very emotional.
• 19:09
  But they were in my living room reading Silver Foxes with Bruce Blanch and Todd Sherry and Sherry O'Tary and Melissa Peterman.
• 19:18
  I mean, it was crazy.
• 19:19
  The people that were there, it it became a kind of viral moment because when the
• 19:25
  network said they couldn't make the show because they didn't have enough money.
• 19:30
  We tried to get it to other networks and studios and streaming and nobody would even read it.
• 19:36
  They said it's old people and it's gay.
• 19:38
  No.
• 19:39
  So I started posting about it and it went viral all over the world.
• 19:43
  um But it was a really cool moment to have those...
• 19:50
  cast members in my living room and hear it come to life for the first time.
• 19:54
  And then I knew we had something.
• 19:56
  And it's been so wonderful seeing different interpretations of the part.
• 20:00
  um And I've gone, I saw it in Columbus, um you know, was just, I can't wait to see it in Detroit and see what they do with it.
• 20:11
  It's so funny you said that about Cecil because I turned to my business partner when we were seeing it in the intermission and I said, that feels like Leslie Jordan.
• 20:20
  Like that just felt, yeah.
• 20:23
  Cause it's like almost like you could just see how he would fit right into it.
• 20:27
  Yes, well, we had hoped that that's what it was gonna be.
• 20:31
  um You know, we even had Terry Sweeney read it one time.
• 20:36
  We've had Jim J.
• 20:37
  Bullock from Too Close for Comfort.
• 20:38
  ah
• 20:40
  read it and he was fantastic and I think he's gonna do it next spring in Palm Springs with me directing.
• 20:48
  he's done, yeah, to do it actually in Palm Springs because that's where it's set.
• 20:52
  I think it'll be a big hit there and he's been really wonderful doing a bunch of readings for us.
• 20:58
  So how do you capture the balance?
• 21:01
  Like, cause it does kind of read like a sitcom, but like in a good way, you know what I mean?
• 21:04
  When you're writing, how do you balance the tones of like, okay, we're going to talk about something serious.
• 21:08
  Cause you talk about like the HIV crisis.
• 21:10
  You talk about things like losing family members.
• 21:13
  How do you strike that balance between those two tones?
• 21:15
  That's interesting because people often say, what is the tone?
• 21:18
  And I think it's just like my life.
• 21:20
  I can be really funny and really serious at the same time.
• 21:25
  And I know it's easy because you want to pigeonhole people.
• 21:28
  it drama?
• 21:29
  Is it comedy?
• 21:30
  What is it?
• 21:31
  And I think if you just listen to your own real life, you do go through things like that.
• 21:36
  And I think that's why we love Roseanne so much.
• 21:40
  was very serious subjects.
• 21:43
  know, people died, they lost their jobs.
• 21:45
  They, you know, got into really intense fights with each other.
• 21:50
  But at the end of day, was really funny.
• 21:52
  So I think it's more like that.
• 21:55
  To me, that's real life.
• 21:57
  And I'm not afraid to get emotional sometimes.
• 22:02
  But I also, I just love to laugh.
• 22:05
  And I can find the humor in that.
• 22:07
  So it is interesting.
• 22:09
  And when I've seen the play, I kind of marvel at it myself.
• 22:13
  It's like you think you're getting...
• 22:15
  really heavy and then all of sudden it'll be like a joke but then it can weave right back into it.
• 22:19
  I'm like, who did that?
• 22:20
  I was like, oh, that's me.
• 22:22
  You know, it's one of those things as a psychologist, one my specialties is LGBTQ issues.
• 22:27
  And one of the things that we've seen is that humor, tends to be one of the defense mechanisms we use the most.
• 22:34
  And so you're like, when you're like, you're having a moment and you can offset it with a little bit of humor and like that like alleviates some of that seriousness, but you're
• 22:44
  also still having that real conversation.
• 22:46
  And I always think when people are laughing, they're just their minds and hearts are just more open.
• 22:50
  They're not so rigid.
• 22:52
  There's something about, and I have for years thought about what is it?
• 22:56
  And maybe you can answer it as a professional.
• 22:59
  What makes you make that sound?
• 23:02
  That laughter sound?
• 23:03
  Like what is that?
• 23:05
  Like, and we all have different sounds with it.
• 23:07
  Like what and what tickles us?
• 23:09
  I mean, it's just, it's so interesting to me.
• 23:12
  Um, but I think there must be something connected with your body that
• 23:15
  it just kind of opens you up so that things can come into your head that you maybe not have thought of or had a rigid opinion about it.
• 23:25
  You know, and hopefully people come away with like, oh, that's what that person was going through that is was like one of the characters.
• 23:34
  Absolutely.
• 23:34
  Definitely, you people, your brain tends to remember positive things.
• 23:38
  So if you're having a positive reaction to something, even if it's a heavy topic, you're going to come back to that.
• 23:43
  I mean, there's scenes, if I think about, I grew up watching Roseanne too.
• 23:47
  I watched all of these shows at some point in my life and I remember Rita rocks.
• 23:54
  Yeah.
• 23:54
  I can't believe you watched that.
• 23:57
  That was such a wonderful experience.
• 23:59
  We wrote that on spec.
• 24:01
  We just loved American Idol and we loved Roseanne.
• 24:03
  So you can see how we wanted to marry music with like a Roseanne kind of show.
• 24:08
  And we got to do it.
• 24:10
  So 40 episodes.
• 24:12
  Look it up.
• 24:13
  though really do have those moments where they stick with you.
• 24:16
  There's scenes of Roseanne that I can remember and granted I was pretty young when that came out and I can remember certain scenes that were just they hit you even though there
• 24:23
  was maybe jokes in there but you're just like that was a really real moment like these characters like you said even Rita Rocks there's like they're all such real people on
• 24:30
  screen.
• 24:34
  I did not even connect that like I said it's been years.
• 24:38
  Yes, the whole, if you watch the pilot, there's a, talk about like uh Six Mile and Dequindre.
• 24:45
  Like who makes a joke about Six Mile and Dequindre?
• 24:48
  And we'd get that except Detroit people.
• 24:50
  uh Tisha Campbell was playing uh organ at a church down, you know.
• 24:55
  So it's really fun to, you know, have little references, you know, and little, oh
• 25:02
  little kernels that people could pick up on, uh which we love to do.
• 25:06
  We love to take real places, real people.
• 25:10
  I'm always listening and writing down notes with things I hear that I want to put into something.
• 25:17
  So when you're, you know, being a playwright, a writer, you know, what is it like to pass off your work to another and then to like see it on the stage?
• 25:23
  Is there like a little bit of nerves with that or is it just always pretty exciting?
• 25:26
  I will admit I'm a little nervous, but I've heard such good things about the Ringwald production that I feel I'm going to walk in already just smiling.
• 25:36
  um So I feel good with that because I've seen it all.
• 25:41
  But that's been a dream of mine with plays is to get them licensed and published, which I have four plays now that are with the company.
• 25:50
  And now they're being done all over the world.
• 25:53
  And it's very exciting.
• 25:55
  So I had dreams.
• 25:56
  of this of going to different cities and seeing my plays.
• 26:00
  You know, of course I'd love to direct all of them, but I can't physically do that.
• 26:05
  And it is really great to see different interpretations.
• 26:08
  And sometimes I go, hmm, that's a great idea.
• 26:11
  Let's put that in.
• 26:13
  That's gonna go in the sequel.
• 26:14
  uh
• 26:16
  Anything I see there on the 24th, 25th, or 26th of October might end up in the next one.
• 26:24
  So before I let you go, was hoping we could talk about your other show right before I go.
• 26:28
  It just had an off-Broadway run.
• 26:31
  um What is that show kind of about and what is it kind of like to see that one make it to stage?
• 26:36
  did it at Cast Tech for two benefits, but I would love to bring it back to Detroit in some fashion.
• 26:41
  uh So, Hill Harper, uh who is a Detroiter, and I just DMed him on Instagram and asked if he would do it in Detroit.
• 26:49
  He flew himself in to do it off-Broadway.
• 26:52
  So, September is Suicide Prevention Month, and uh I found a theater, the Tank Theater, off-Broadway, and I got to make my acting and playwriting off-Broadway debut.
• 27:02
  So, we had three rotating casts of Super
• 27:05
  stars and me.
• 27:07
  don't know how that happened.
• 27:08
  And there I was on stage with Wendy Malik from Hot in Cleveland and looking at her on stage and we're having scenes together.
• 27:15
  I'm how did what world like what did I get here?
• 27:18
  uh Patrick Page from Hadestown, Wilson Cruz from Star Trek Voyager, uh Marsha Brady, uh Christine Taylor was in it.
• 27:28
  I mean, we just had uh Emily Corota, who is Mrs.
• 27:31
  Kim from Gilmore Girls, as you know, did it.
• 27:34
  Peppermint from
• 27:35
  RuPaul's Drag Race and Trader?
• 27:39
  I know that I put together myself, I'll have you know.
• 27:44
  So about 14 years ago, a very close friend of mine died by suicide and as a comedy writer, I didn't know how to deal with it.
• 27:50
  He did leave a note and I couldn't get the note, so then I started Googling real suicide notes and I wanted to figure out the why.
• 27:59
  Why did he do it?
• 28:00
  I thought the notes might...
• 28:03
  show me away.
• 28:04
  um And then this became a play.
• 28:06
  So I put it together kind of like vagina monologues or love letters.
• 28:11
  it's four actors reading all the different notes, Kurt Cobain and war veterans and LGBTQ kids and kids that were bullied.
• 28:19
  And they're just reading notes and facts.
• 28:21
  And then a director said, you need to put your story with your friend in it.
• 28:25
  And I fought it for a long time and I was just going to be a narrator and then every rewrite people said, just say it's you.
• 28:33
  And it became me and I've been doing it all over the country and did it off Broadway and did it at Cast Tech.
• 28:40
  And I would just love to see it done more, especially in Detroit.
• 28:44
  My publishers had me do a school edition.
• 28:47
  So we've been aiming, taking it at high schools.
• 28:50
  If we can get kids at that age and they do want to talk about it at that age.
• 28:55
  to understand what bullying does to other kids, to understand what it's like when you're feeling depressed or alone.
• 29:01
  I know I was spit on at uh Thompson Junior High in Southfield, Michigan, and I would go home and think of like, I don't want to go to school tomorrow.
• 29:11
  So this play is about provoking conversation about a really tough subject where there's so much shame around.
• 29:18
  uh But there is humor and there is hope at the end about I found notes from people that attempted it but lived.
• 29:26
  and they talked about, you know, knowing that they had something to do for the rest of their life and they want to live for what's around the corner.
• 29:34
  So that's been really cool to just get out into different communities doing the play.
• 29:40
  And then I've also been out promoting my book and that's been really fun to do too.
• 29:47
  I've been going to libraries in different towns.
• 29:51
  And so I kept journals during college and I put the journal entries.
• 29:56
  uh
• 29:57
  It's called The Girls from Golden to Gilmore.
• 30:00
  And it's stories about all the wonderful women I've worked with, and Roseanne.
• 30:05
  But really, it's a Valentine to my mother, who passed four years ago, and she was my biggest cheerleader, and she really supported me going to Cranbrook Theater School.
• 30:15
  And that's kind of where my life turned, because I found my tribe with theater there.
• 30:22
  And uh to be picked on in school and be unpopular, and then to go on that Greek
• 30:27
  I don't know if you've ever been out there, it's beautiful.
• 30:31
  And suddenly I was the most popular kid there.
• 30:34
  And so in a young kid's mind, I'm like, what's different?
• 30:38
  And it just was, I was around like-minded people that got me.
• 30:44
  And I'm still friends with a lot of them.
• 30:45
  So it's a wonderful experience.
• 30:48
  So it always hearkens back to Detroit, which is why I'm just so excited to get there and see Silver Foxes.
• 30:55
  We are so excited to have you there.
• 30:57
  And also, I just want to say before I let you go, right before I go, what a beautiful message.
• 31:02
  And I hope that it speaks volumes to everybody.
• 31:05
  And if it can save even one kid's life, again, as somebody who was bullied for being gay and was, unfortunately, had some suicidal ideations, that's the kind of things that I do.
• 31:17
  I know that I would have needed in high school.
• 31:19
  And it's good to have that going through schools and stuff like that.
• 31:22
  an hour long play and then you're required when you license it to do a talk back after with a local mental health professional.
• 31:31
  So maybe you need to do the play with me.
• 31:34
  Even as a let's do it.
• 31:36
  I mean, if we could get into high schools there would be super cool um or do a benefit at the Ringwald one night and get some Detroit area actors on stage.
• 31:48
  I love it.
• 31:49
  Thank you so much, Stan, for your time.
• 31:51
  It's been such a pleasure talking with you.
• 31:52
  And we are excited that you're going to be joining the show this weekend, next weekend.
• 31:56
  ah So if you're in the Metro Detroit area, you can catch Silver Foxes at the Ringwald Theater through October 27th.
• 32:04
  So get your tickets now.
• 32:05
  We'll see you there.