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A thousand girls, neon lights: Human toll of Thailand’s sex tourism industry · The Morning Edition

0:05
S1: The death of 17 year old Thai girl Tunkhannock Dönhoff
0:09
S1: has shocked Australia and sparked fear among sex workers in Pattaya.
0:13
S1: Tussionex body was found in a suitcase and dumped in
0:16
S1: long grass by a railway. The man accused of murdering
0:20
S1: her is 45 year old Australian Simon Peter Carman. Thai
0:24
S1: police stopped him at the airport trying to leave the country,
0:28
S1: and Carman is now being held in the Pattaya Remand Prison.
0:32
S1: I'm Benjamin Price filling in for Samantha Zellinger Maurice and
0:36
S1: you're listening to The Morning Edition from The Age and
0:38
S1: The Sydney Morning Herald. Today's guest is South East Asia
0:41
S1: correspondent Zach Hope. A warning today's episode includes disturbing details
0:47
S1: that some listeners may find distressing. It's Monday, July 6th. Hey, Zach,
0:52
S1: so you've spent some time in Pattaya yourself. What did
0:56
S1: you learn about who Don ho was and what do
1:00
S1: you know about why she was in Pattaya.
1:02
S2: There's still a lot we don't know about her, but
1:06
S2: we know that she came from the northeast provinces from
1:10
S2: about 600km away. She came to Pattaya or the broader
1:15
S2: Pattaya area to meet friends is what police say. Police
1:20
S2: believe she may have been there on a holiday. Now what?
1:23
S2: Her intentions were there. We don't we don't know. But
1:26
S2: we do also know that she was there for about
1:30
S2: one week before she met the Australian, Simon Peter Carman.
1:34
S1: So can you tell us who reported missing and what
1:38
S1: role did I guess digital media or digital technology play
1:41
S1: in this case?
1:43
S2: So she went back to Simon Peter Carman's condominium in
1:49
S2: the early hours of Thursday morning when she failed to
1:54
S2: show up. Her friend, who had been with her at
1:57
S2: the time when she had met the Australian, went and
1:59
S2: confronted Simon Common at his condominium complex because she had
2:05
S2: known where her friend was going and who the person was,
2:10
S2: who the man was. Shortly after she had gone and
2:13
S2: confronted Carman looking for her friend, she then filed a
2:17
S2: police report. And what happened after that was a pretty
2:21
S2: extraordinary piece of police and detective work. They've done a
2:25
S2: rapid review of all the CCTV footage they've captured, allegedly
2:31
S2: Simon Peter Carman wheeling out a suitcase at about 9:15 p.m.
2:37
S2: that's about 18 hours after the pair were last seen
2:41
S2: going into the condominium. CCTV then captures him driving on
2:46
S2: his motorbike with the suitcase tied onto the back through
2:49
S2: the streets of Jomtien, which is just outside Pattaya. The
2:53
S2: cameras then also capture him coming back to the condominium
2:58
S2: without that suitcase. So upon Receiving this visual information. The
3:06
S2: police have put out an alert to the immigration authorities
3:09
S2: to say that, hey, this guy might be trying to
3:12
S2: leave the country because there was more CCTV footage that
3:15
S2: showed him leaving with another bag, his luggage. And the
3:19
S2: immigration officials have detained Simon Carman at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport
3:26
S2: just minutes before he was about to to get on
3:29
S2: a flight.
3:30
S1: So, Zac, tell us, how did these two meet each other?
3:33
S2: Well, they met at about 3 a.m. in the morning
3:36
S2: in Jomtien, near the beach and near Street seven. Tom
3:41
S2: was with a friend. And Simon Peter Carman was walking
3:47
S2: along near the beach. In the official police report, it
3:51
S2: says that both parties have agreed to sexual services. So
3:56
S2: it's at that point, at about 3:00, the pair have
3:59
S2: started to walk back to Simon Carman's Condominium complex at
4:04
S2: his slow pace at about a half hour walk away,
4:07
S2: and the friend that was with cake, as she was known,
4:11
S2: actually filmed them walking off together at that time as well,
4:14
S2: holding hands. And then the next time that we see
4:17
S2: the pair is on the CCTV footage at the condominium complex,
4:21
S2: still holding hands, about to go into the elevator and
4:25
S2: disappear up to the 15th floor. Then they would have
4:29
S2: walked along the dim corridor and went into the slovenly room. 20.
4:34
S1: So can you bring us up to speed then on
4:36
S1: where is this at in terms of the legal process?
4:40
S2: Not much has moved in that regard. Uh, my understanding
4:43
S2: of Thai law is that they have about three months
4:47
S2: to be able to finalize the investigation. Obviously, a lot
4:51
S2: of what they have is already known. It's unclear yet
4:54
S2: whether Simon Kaman even has a lawyer yet, so it's
4:58
S2: obviously then also unclear when he might face a court
5:02
S2: date in Thailand. But from the experts that I've spoken
5:06
S2: to the facts, as they've been reported so far, if
5:10
S2: they are indeed correct, it doesn't augur very well for
5:14
S2: him in terms of the sentence that he might get.
5:17
S2: Thailand does carry the death penalty. Well, if convicted, that
5:20
S2: is likely to be a sentence that he would get.
5:23
S2: But the mitigating factor here is that it's precedent for
5:27
S2: Thailand's king on the grand occasions of his birthday, or
5:32
S2: the Queen's birthday or other national occasions to commute death
5:37
S2: sentences into life imprisonment. And what could happen then in
5:41
S2: another 15 years may pass. And Simon Carman, if he
5:46
S2: is indeed convicted and sent to jail, could then petition
5:50
S2: the king again to see if he might be able
5:51
S2: to get another pardon and get released.
5:54
S1: So what do we know then about Simon Carman? What
5:57
S1: was he doing in Thailand? Do you know how long
5:59
S1: he had been there?
6:00
S2: He seems to have been a long term on and
6:03
S2: off visitor. His most recent stint there. We were told
6:08
S2: by neighbors in this particular Multi-tower condominium complex in Jomtien
6:14
S2: had been about eight months, so he was well known
6:17
S2: to the people in that building. Lots of expats there,
6:21
S2: lots of older expats. He was paying the equivalent of
6:24
S2: about $330 a month for his room. Photos have emerged
6:29
S2: from inside the room, showing a pretty squalid environment that
6:33
S2: he kept for himself, his neighbours. No one really seemed
6:38
S2: to know him particularly well, but most of them found
6:41
S2: him amiable enough. One of the most striking things about
6:45
S2: him was his slow manner of speech, his slow manner
6:49
S2: of staring, his slow manner of walking. And listeners may
6:53
S2: have seen some of the pictures showing a scar on
6:55
S2: the back of his head, and he is apparently told
6:59
S2: neighbours that he's had an operation on a brain tumour
7:02
S2: some time ago. Now, whether that has anything to do
7:04
S2: with anything we don't know. But his other neighbors say that. Look,
7:10
S2: he was, you know, pretty quiet. He was the kind
7:12
S2: of guy that wanted to get his own way. He
7:14
S2: could occasionally get aggressive, but that was mainly just at
7:17
S2: at the drunks on the floor who were causing a
7:19
S2: bit of a problem. And as one lady told us, well,
7:22
S2: that's just normal to get annoyed at drunk. So everyone
7:25
S2: in the complex is pretty shocked. But also from our
7:31
S2: conversations with them, he doesn't come across as the kind
7:34
S2: of guy who's particularly convivial and sort of the life
7:38
S2: of the party and making great, lifelong friends with everyone either.
7:41
S1: So he's reportedly denied murdering Tunkhannock. How do we know this?
7:46
S2: The way that the police colonel explained it to me
7:50
S2: this week was that when immigration officials detained Simon Carman
7:57
S2: at Bangkok's airport, the officials have noted the scratch marks
8:02
S2: the scratch injuries on him, which police allege were from
8:05
S2: the victim. but he at that time, he's denied everything.
8:08
S2: He said he was in a fight with a friend.
8:10
S2: That's where the scratches came from. And then the police
8:13
S2: say once they brought him back and started to present
8:16
S2: him with this pretty damning CCTV evidence of him leaving
8:20
S2: with a suitcase, coming back without a suitcase, and the
8:24
S2: fact that she was still missing. That's when police said
8:28
S2: he started to admit what had actually happened. Now he's
8:33
S2: still claiming that it was self-defense. He told police that
8:38
S2: she came at him with a knife in a dispute
8:41
S2: over money. Thai media have reported that that amount of
8:44
S2: money might have just been as little as $20. So
8:48
S2: the Thai police didn't want to confirm those details with
8:50
S2: me on the grounds that that's just one person's version
8:53
S2: of events, possibly. And that she didn't have a chance
8:55
S2: to be able to defend herself. So as it stands,
8:59
S2: he is claiming that he was protecting his own life
9:02
S2: and that in the process of doing that, he strangled
9:05
S2: her and unintentionally killed her.
9:13
S1: After the break.
9:14
S2: There's, you know, rows of ladies wearing bikinis and lingerie
9:19
S2: sort of trying to beckon you into their bars. Big
9:22
S2: neon lights, thumping music, lots of tourists. There must have
9:26
S2: been a thousand half naked girls just lined up on
9:30
S2: that street.
9:40
S1: So I went to Thailand a long time ago, but
9:43
S1: I didn't go to Pattaya. You went to Pattaya yourself, though,
9:46
S1: in the course of reporting. And it sounds like a
9:49
S1: real kind of assault on the senses. Can you describe
9:52
S1: what it was like when you were there?
9:53
S2: Well, yeah. I'd never been. I'd never been there either. And, uh,
9:57
S2: you know, before going, I was talking to some crusty
10:00
S2: old Englishmen in a bar in Jomtien, which is the
10:03
S2: much quieter area. And they were saying that they're too
10:06
S2: old now for that kind of place down on walking
10:08
S2: street and and soi six that it's the place you
10:11
S2: can go in and get a sense of and then
10:13
S2: get out quickly because it is so much. And they
10:15
S2: are absolutely right. We're in the it's the low season
10:18
S2: right now. We went on a week night, not particularly late.
10:22
S2: I think it was still around like, you know, 10:00
10:24
S2: or something. But it was a it was a real scene.
10:27
S2: It was a real scene. You know, I got out
10:29
S2: of the the taxi and sort of within two meters
10:32
S2: of walking, I'm getting cards with various sex shows sort
10:35
S2: of thrust into my face, which at first was pretty
10:38
S2: amusing until, you know, you walk 20m and you've had
10:41
S2: 30 such encounters trying to push these guys away. There's,
10:44
S2: you know, rows of ladies in wearing bikinis and lingerie,
10:49
S2: sort of trying to beckon you into their baths, big
10:52
S2: neon lights, thumping music, lots of tourists. Now, that was
10:56
S2: pretty wild. But then we went to soy six and
10:59
S2: soy essentially means, um, street. We went to soy six,
11:02
S2: which isn't too far away. And I mean, that was
11:04
S2: even crazier. Still, there must have been a thousand half
11:08
S2: naked girls just lined up on that street. I'd never
11:12
S2: seen anything like it. I thought that Phnom Penh, in
11:15
S2: Cambodia's red light district, pound for pound, was pretty strong.
11:17
S2: Like it was quite small. But pound for pound I thought, wow,
11:20
S2: this is, uh, it's a bit of a scene, but Pattaya,
11:23
S2: it's got it covered and it's probably got everywhere covered
11:25
S2: in the world, I'd say.
11:27
S1: And so from the women that you spoke to there,
11:30
S1: what was the effect on them of this alleged murder?
11:33
S2: The women there are quite guarded. The ones who we
11:36
S2: did speak to, um, were happy to do so under pseudonyms.
11:41
S2: All of them had heard of this case. None of
11:44
S2: them needed any prompting. They didn't need any details or
11:47
S2: any reminding about what it was. They actually knew the
11:50
S2: details quite well. One, when we said, you know, have
11:53
S2: you heard of this case? And have you seen this woman?
11:56
S2: We showed her photo. She says, oh yes, that's Nong Cake,
11:59
S2: referencing the girl's nickname. And she said, yes. She was
12:02
S2: only in Jomtien just a week. And she said, yes.
12:06
S2: It's shockingly scary, terribly scary. So it's certainly something that's
12:10
S2: spread very quickly through the sex worker community there.
12:14
S1: And do you know if there are any safeguards for
12:17
S1: sex workers in Thailand?
12:19
S2: No. Well, there's not really. There's not. The laws are
12:23
S2: pretty grey. The the whale's explained to me. And I
12:26
S2: went and had a look at the English translation of
12:29
S2: the legislation myself. But pimping is illegal. Brothels are illegal,
12:34
S2: but selling sex in itself is not illegal so long
12:38
S2: as it's not done openly, shamelessly or causing a nuisance. Now,
12:43
S2: what is openly is openly sort of standing on a
12:47
S2: street wearing a bikini. You know what is shamelessly what
12:50
S2: is causing a nuisance is approaching a stranger. Is that
12:53
S2: considered being a nuisance to the public? So it's pretty
12:55
S2: grey and within these sort of grey areas, as you
12:59
S2: can imagine, particularly because the brothels are outlawed, it can
13:02
S2: put girls in a very precarious position. The girls who
13:06
S2: work for bars have more protection. It's the girls who
13:10
S2: are men. The girls are men who are out by themselves,
13:14
S2: working independently, where they have to either go to a
13:17
S2: hotel that they have selected, or are desperate enough for
13:20
S2: the money that they need to go to the man's
13:23
S2: apartment or the man's condo. They're the ones that are
13:27
S2: most at risk because there just aren't those protections around.
13:30
S2: But there are very few formal protections around as well.
13:33
S2: What is there seems to come from the the bars
13:36
S2: themselves and the pretty tough looking men who stand near
13:41
S2: them to make sure that everything's good and no one's
13:43
S2: taking photos up close.
13:45
S1: And why is it that some sex workers work independently
13:49
S1: whereas others work through bars?
13:52
S2: Well, a good example is one of the women that
13:55
S2: we spoke to. We've called her Annie. She didn't want
13:58
S2: to use her real name. She's ladyboy. So a transgender
14:01
S2: woman and she's 57 years old. So she used to
14:06
S2: work in the bars. But then as she started to
14:09
S2: get older, the pandemic hit. The competition was too much.
14:13
S2: It was too hard for her to get work, so
14:14
S2: she started just working independently, standing under a coconut tree
14:19
S2: by the beach. And I imagine there's all sorts of
14:22
S2: stories like that. Maybe it's a competition thing. Maybe some
14:26
S2: men or women like to find their own spot rather
14:28
S2: than be competing with their literally thousands of other girls
14:32
S2: in the same vicinity.
14:34
S1: What is it that brings sex workers or young women
14:38
S1: to Pattaya? And has this been going on for a
14:41
S1: very long time?
14:42
S2: Yeah, it's been going on for a very long time.
14:46
S2: I did read something. I haven't delved too deeply into it,
14:49
S2: but that it may have even started with American troops
14:52
S2: around the time of the sort of the Vietnam War.
14:55
S2: The reasons that they come in and they come in
14:57
S2: from the provinces and they come in from neighboring countries
15:00
S2: like Laos and Cambodia is often crushing poverty from where
15:05
S2: they're from. Studies have shown that many of these Girls
15:10
S2: and men are actually the primary breadwinners for their family.
15:14
S2: I interviewed one of the bar girls. She was from Laos.
15:18
S2: She makes about 3000 baht, so that's about 130 AUD
15:23
S2: per encounter with a man. And almost all of that
15:26
S2: goes back home to her family in Laos.
15:29
S1: So what happens next here is they're going to be
15:31
S1: a trial of some sort.
15:33
S2: We presume there's going to be a trial at some
15:36
S2: point when that will be. We don't know. It is
15:39
S2: also possible that the police will want to do a
15:43
S2: re-enactment with Simon Kaman of the alleged crime. This is
15:47
S2: what they do in Indonesia, too. It obviously doesn't happen
15:50
S2: in Australia, so it's quite an odd thing to see sometimes.
15:52
S2: But they will parade the suspect out and make them
15:55
S2: sort of retrace their steps and show police what they did.
15:58
S2: That is something that is also possible, but we haven't
16:01
S2: got confirmation when or if that is going to happen.
16:04
S2: This is also not something that has come out of
16:07
S2: the blue. There's been previous cases of this sort of thing.
16:10
S2: One of the girls immediately said there was another one,
16:14
S2: and she started talking about the Chinese man who has
16:17
S2: been arrested for doing it. And that was an extremely
16:20
S2: violent case in April 2025, I think, where the man
16:23
S2: is accused of dismembering and mutilating the body. There are
16:27
S2: other ones that are still a couple unsolved murders involving
16:30
S2: suitcases in the area. And police are actually, of course,
16:34
S2: testing the DNA just to make sure that they're not
16:37
S2: dealing with a potential serial killer on this as well.
16:40
S2: I mean, there's no suggestion that Simon Carmon is involved
16:43
S2: in either, but they're doing the tests. So this sort
16:45
S2: of thing isn't wholly uncommon. But when it does happen,
16:50
S2: it does rattle them. And especially the ones who are
16:53
S2: working independently. And the lady that we spoke to who
16:57
S2: does work independently, she's been doing it for a very
17:00
S2: long time and she knows not to go to condos.
17:04
S2: She only goes to the hotels that know her, and
17:07
S2: if a man wants to take her somewhere else, she
17:09
S2: doesn't go. I imagine that after this, maybe some of
17:14
S2: the more inexperienced girls, if they had have still been
17:18
S2: going to condos and private accommodation, then this case, hopefully
17:23
S2: this case might give them pause to reflect on that decision.
17:34
S1: Zach, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate
17:37
S1: having you on The Morning Edition.
17:38
S2: No problem. Thanks very much.
17:52
S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer
17:56
S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa
18:00
S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow
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