Latest / Yes And Land / Turning Red: What Your Teen's Meltdowns Are Really Telling You | Mitchell Acton

Transcript

Turning Red: What Your Teen's Meltdowns Are Really Telling You | Mitchell Acton · Yes And Land

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  Most people will choose familiarity over functionality.
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  I'm going to choose what's familiar. That feels
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  safer to me than choosing what's a little bit
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  more functional. Sometimes as parents, we forget
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  that. Like, oh, they're just being so difficult.
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  Oh, they're just so hard. Like, actually, I think
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  their brains are developing. Like, this is kind
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  of the way it's supposed to work. Yeah, actually,
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  I'd be more concerned if that really obedient
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  kind of phase that you see a little bit more
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  with children, that was also happening into adolescence.
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  Potentially, is there a developmental delay here?
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  I think the panda is partially a metaphor for
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  puberty and just going through puberty and all
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  of those changes. But I think it also represents
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  some of those suppressed thoughts and feelings.
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  Mei Lin is interpreting as like, oh, I can't
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  share this thought or feeling. because it's going
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  to make my mom sad. It's also interesting to
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  me to see how big mom's panda was. To me, that's
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  an indication of how much she had suppressed.
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  And then you get that brief picture of her as
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  a child and that inner child piece of it. I'm
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  going to lose this relationship if I try to set
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  a boundary. But she finally opens up about that
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  and gets to the core of, I think, what her worst
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  fear would be. I set a boundary with you and
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  tell you really how I feel. You're not going
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  to love me anymore. If you're not... aware of
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  your system then you're just reacting to your
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  system welcome to yes and land where we say yes
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  to the reality of yesterday and today and we
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  say and to the possibility growth and imagination
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  of tomorrow Welcome everybody to our next episode
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  of Yes and Land. We are very excited today. We've
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  got a terrific guest on tap today. I'm very excited
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  to dive into some really fun, interesting topics
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  that I think are really applicable to a lot of
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  parents today. Today we have Mitchell Acton,
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  who is a terrific individual who I've known for
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  a little while. He's the clinical director at
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  Kane Counseling, which is a terrific place, and
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  it's well -deserved for him to be the clinical
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  director. Loads of experience. He does this,
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  both sees his own patients, but also helps the
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  people over at that place as well to do some
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  amazing things for a lot of people. So we're
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  very excited to have you on today. Super excited
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  to be here. This is going to be a lot of fun.
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  Yeah, it's going to be a good time. So today,
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  part of our topic is we're going to be looking
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  at... Emotion suppression. We're going to be
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  looking at some things like enmeshment versus
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  empathy. Also on how we can better understand
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  and deal with our teens when they're going through
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  a lot of things. Oh, yeah. As teens do. Yes.
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  And we're trying to understand them, trying to
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  be better parents, trying to help guide them
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  better. So, again, really excited about what
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  that can, where we can go with that conversation.
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  And we're going to look at that through the lens
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  of a Disney Pixar movie, Turning Red. Yeah. Which
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  is so... on point for this topic. Absolutely.
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  Right. Yeah. As I rewatched it and we had kind
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  of had our pre conversation, I'm like, oh, my
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  goodness, this is so applicable. There's so many
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  lessons to be pulled out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As
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  I remember the first time I watched it, I was,
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  you know, especially my clinical brain watching
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  it, just observing all of these things. And it's
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  actually become something that I've actually
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  recommended to some of the families that I work
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  with is to watch this movie because it explains
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  and shows. these dynamics play out just so beautifully.
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  Oh, that's fantastic. I didn't know that. Amazing.
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  So Mitch is oftentimes what people call you,
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  right? So we're going to go Mitch. Maybe I sometimes
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  pop into Mitchell. Who knows? We might play by
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  how that goes, right? I respond to both. So,
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  you know, you can call me whatever you want.
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  Just don't call me wait for dinner is what I'll
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  say. So you're on time guy. Yes. Yeah. You're
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  always on time. I like that. I like that. I could
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  probably use some of those lessons. Strive to
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  be. And then I always stress myself out when
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  I'm not, but I'm not always perfectly on time
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  either. Is what it is. We all deal with things,
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  right? Absolutely. That's right. So Mitch, kind
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  of take us back a little bit. What got you into
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  therapy and social work from the get go? Like
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  what inspired you to go in that direction with
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  your career? Yeah. Yeah. So I never thought that
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  I was going to do that. Like if you would have
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  asked me when I was. a kid, teenager, I wouldn't
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  have told you like, yeah, I want to be in the
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  mental health field. I think I always had this
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  quality of kind of being. Oh, like my friend
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  group growing up, they call me the glue guy,
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  you know, the glue that kind of keeps everybody
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  together. I certainly helped like mediate conversations
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  if some of my friends were in conflict with each
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  other and kind of be the peacemaker, so to speak,
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  there or be supportive of people. So I think
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  that was just something naturally about my personality.
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  You know, certainly I've done personality tests,
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  too. And, you know, I'm a helper. by nature,
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  my personality. But I actually have always been
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  really passionate about history. And so I went
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  to college. I originally went to study history.
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  And then in the midst of my collegiate journey
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  and kind of popping around between a few different
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  majors, I ended up taking a general psychology
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  class. And in that point in time, in that in
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  that point in time, I think I was struggling
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  with some depression and anxiety as well. And
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  just like kind of not. really known direction
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  or where I was headed next. And I was learning
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  something really interesting every single time
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  I would go to that class period. And so I ended
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  up meeting with my student counselor over at
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  University of Utah. Ask them we know what what
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  career options are there if I were to go into
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  psychology? And she actually linked me to working
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  in a residential treatment center with with teenagers
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  with teenage boys And that was kind of my first
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  job in the mental health field that went around
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  here locally. Yeah Yeah, it's actually just over
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  in Draper called gateway Academy But it's it's
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  yeah loved working there worked there for a couple
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  years as one of the main full -time staff And
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  it was there that I learned. Okay. I think I
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  want to go into mental health as a career. I've
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  had some education in it. I've had some actual
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  experience in a workplace environment. So I ended
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  up going back. I ended up choosing the Master
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  of Social Work degree program at University of
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  Utah, which was great. I loved it. And yeah,
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  that led me to being a licensed clinical social
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  worker and worked in a few different places up
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  to this point. But yeah, now I'm clinical director
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  over at Kean Counseling Center. Amazing. Here's
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  a question for you. As you've looked at these
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  things, and you probably have about yourself
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  as well, where did that come from where you were
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  kind of that person who was always mediating?
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  That comes from somewhere, right? Yeah. Was there
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  experiences that you had where you were kind
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  of forced into that? Or why do you feel like
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  that was kind of where you ended up being drawn?
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  Because I was a little bit that same way. Sure,
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  yeah. That definitely was like I was the guy
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  that was trying to, you know. bring people together
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  bring tensions down like yeah always that guy
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  yeah You know, it's hard to pinpoint. And, you
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  know, maybe I should do some of my own therapy
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  more about that. But but there's I think there's
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  a certain point or like the thing that really
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  stood out to me that I know I know about myself
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  now is that I really value connection and I really
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  value connection in relationships to the world
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  around me. You know, whatever connection is really
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  important. And I think there were times growing
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  up as a kid that I really felt like I didn't
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  have. that connection. And then there were times
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  where I found it in certain relationships or
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  classes or hobbies or whatever, you know, and
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  I noticed the reaction I had to that and feeling
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  like really drawn to that and like it really
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  mattered to me. And so, I mean, like this group
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  of high school friends that were that came out,
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  I'm still. Close friends. We just went to Palm
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  Springs and did a trip together like last month,
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  you know, so very. Yeah, I've always really cared
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  about connection and meaningful relationships,
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  even from a young age, which which makes it easier
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  in doing this work as I'm working with families
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  or couples or even individuals is I really, truly
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  believe in the value of connection, genuine connection.
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  And one of the one of the things I really like
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  helping people with is how to find connection.
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  Yeah. when uh growing up were you uh only child
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  did you have some siblings where did you fall
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  yeah so i i was the oldest of three kids um and
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  and a little bit interesting so me and my siblings
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  are all adopted so i had oh i was the oldest
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  my daughter my younger sister was uh 10 months
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  younger than me and then i have a younger brother
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  who's four four years younger than me interesting
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  so okay so y 'all were adopted yeah how did that
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  how did that play out like did you know You were
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  when you got adopted? Were you adopted as a baby?
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  Like, what was that? Yeah, so I was adopted as
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  a baby. It was all prearranged adoption even
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  before I was born. My birth mom was 15, I think,
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  when she had me. So she had already met with
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  my parents, and that had all kind of been arranged
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  and knew where I was going right off the bat.
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  And that was actually the same way with my younger
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  siblings as well. When did they tell you? Like,
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  at what age was it like, hey, Mitchell? Yeah.
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  You are adopted. Like, what did that look like?
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  How'd that play out for you? Yeah, it's a great
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  question. And I get that one a lot, too. And
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  I don't remember the exact moment that they told
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  me I was adopted, but I kind of remember just
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  always knowing. And part of the reason is because
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  my brother and sister are black. So there was
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  just that aspect of like, oh, we don't look all
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  the same. Right. And so just naturally that kind
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  of came up. So I don't remember the exact moment,
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  but I also. I always just kind of remember always
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  knowing that we were adopted. So it was pretty
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  early on that I knew. Interesting. My brother,
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  he ended up adopting his stepdaughter. Okay,
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  yeah. But she knew him. Like that was the only
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  dad that she knew. I think she was six or seven
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  months old. Yeah. Her mom and my brother got
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  together and so she didn't know another dad,
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  right? But I remember that kind of being a thing
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  of like when's the right time to like actually
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  sit and have that conversation Yeah, it's always
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  it's always a challenge to try to find the right
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  timing for that because that can I Think that
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  can be really hard for some kids. Yeah. Yeah,
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  it absolutely can. You know, in fact when I worked
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  in residential treatment I did briefly run a
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  group for adopted teens because we had a handful
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  of kids that would come through there that were
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  adopted i we uh my wife and i with our youngest
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  we had her through a surrogacy okay so biologically
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  my wife and i yeah but you know gestational carriers
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  the one who gave birth right and we just decided
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  like early on we were gonna always have that
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  conversation right like yeah hey you you came
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  from somebody else's belly right but you're you're
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  you know you're your mom and i but you came from
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  somebody else's belly and so like she she's six
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  now But she's always kind of like had that terminology
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  there that for us that seemed like the right
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  thing to do because that can be, I mean, they
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  don't understand the science behind it. They
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  don't understand how that's working, right? There's
• 11:07
  no idea, right? Like, okay, well, this is what
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  it is. But we just decided to have that conversation
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  earlier. It's always made me think like, you
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  know, how do those really play out? How do parents
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  make good decisions about when to eventually
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  have those conversations because of the impact
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  that it can have on kids when they... you know,
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  feel like it is. Have you ever had that feeling
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  of like, you need to go get to know who your
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  biological parents were or seek them out? Yeah,
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  I think so. I mean, and one of the things that
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  I'll talk and I've learned, especially through
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  like a, through clinically working with folks
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  that have been adopted is that there, there is
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  just a natural curiosity and kind of biological
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  draw to where you come from. And so it just exploring
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  that. In fact, there's this book called The Primal
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  Wound that talks about like adoption can be almost
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  the first attachment wound that somebody experiences
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  because you're no longer with your biological
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  parent. Right. And so, yeah, in terms of like
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  when I've had the conversation with people like
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  when to actually say, hey, you know, you are
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  adopted. And there's multiple schools of thought
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  on this, I think, but generally I really like
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  your approach of keeping things just kind of
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  open and transparent, having the space to, to
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  talk about it because as they, you said your
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  daughter's six. Yeah. Yeah. She's six right now.
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  But eventually she's going to be a teenager and
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  that brain's going to start developing and she's
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  going to all of a sudden develop this ability
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  to abstractly think. And she's, She's going to
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  start having questions, more questions about
• 12:48
  it that are developmentally, they're different
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  from a six year old versus a 13 year old versus
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  an 18 year old or something. Right. And so since
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  you've laid that groundwork already of like,
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  hey, we can talk about this. We can talk about
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  this anytime you want. You know, this is something
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  that we're totally open with you about. In my
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  opinion. you're setting the groundwork. You've
• 13:08
  set the conversations up for success to continue.
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  So I don't know if I answered your question,
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  but. I mean, it sounds like if appropriate and
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  when possible, maybe start the conversations
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  early so that when the deeper questions come,
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  they know it's okay to ask them. Yeah, yeah,
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  exactly. And there may be, nothing's black and
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  white. There may be times where that's not the
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  best thing, right? So I just want to throw that
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  out there too. But just in general, that's usually
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  what I would advise. Yeah. Have you reconnected
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  with your biological parents at all? Oh, yeah,
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  yeah. So I have spoke with my biological mother.
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  And I've actually met just by chance one of my
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  half -siblings at In -N -Out one time. Just happened
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  to meet. So anyways. Kind of quick recap. I was
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  like 15. I had my half -sister reach out to me
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  through MySpace. MySpace, that is going back
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  a ways, isn't it? Holy moly. Yeah, I wish MySpace
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  was still around. That was my favorite social
• 14:08
  media platform of them all. So I loved being
• 14:11
  able to pick my song and my whole profile and
• 14:14
  everything about it. But yeah, so she reached
• 14:16
  out to me through MySpace when I was like 15
• 14:18
  or something and didn't tell me right away who
• 14:21
  she was. We just kind of talked. But yeah, ended
• 14:24
  up just kind of spilling the beans that she was
• 14:27
  my biological half -sister. And then from there,
• 14:31
  ended up connecting with my... my, with my bio
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  mom and, um, haven't met my bio mom, but she,
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  uh, texts me every year on my birthday and we
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  just kind of talk and check in about how things
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  are going. And some of my other siblings have,
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  have also started to reach out to me as well.
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  And again, I think it's just that, that curiosity,
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  right? You just want to know kind of like where
• 14:51
  you're, where you're from. Um, and I think you
• 14:54
  can see that too, like from a clinical perspective,
• 14:56
  again, with, with folks that are adopted, kids
• 14:58
  that are adopted, um, they. they might have this
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  sense of loneliness or like struggling to belong
• 15:05
  or struggling with identity or to identify, yeah,
• 15:09
  like what is my place here? And oftentimes I
• 15:13
  will see that it's tied back all the way back
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  to when they were a little, little kid or even
• 15:18
  a baby and they were adopted even before their
• 15:21
  consciousness was fully developed. So it's super
• 15:24
  powerful. It's, I mean. This is kind of changing
• 15:28
  gears a little bit, but it's also part of the
• 15:30
  reason when I'm working with family systems and
• 15:32
  trying to help parents who have gone through
• 15:34
  a divorce understand the value of both parents
• 15:38
  to this child, that it is inherently valuable,
• 15:42
  that most of the time it's not going to be the
• 15:44
  best thing for them not to have any tie or connection
• 15:47
  to both of their parents or one of their parents.
• 15:49
  Yeah, and you bring up an interesting point there,
• 15:52
  which is... Talking about family systems therapy.
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  Yeah. And I think it's becoming, I think, more
• 15:58
  and more common, more and more popular. Yeah.
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  I think there's still a lot of people out there
• 16:02
  outside of like our circles. Right. As a divorce
• 16:06
  attorney, as a therapist that don't know what
• 16:09
  that is. They're starting to hear that term.
• 16:11
  But like, what is family systems therapy? Yeah.
• 16:13
  So what would be kind of your basic breakdown
• 16:16
  of what family systems therapy is? Yeah. So family
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  systems therapy. specifically within the court
• 16:22
  -ordered sense, because you could also do it,
• 16:25
  I guess, in a different sense of parents who
• 16:26
  are still married and working with a family system.
• 16:30
  I think it often overlaps with the term reunification
• 16:34
  therapy. Just historically, I think that's been
• 16:38
  kind of intertwined where it's, oh, there's parent
• 16:40
  -child contact problems or a parent is not seeing
• 16:44
  their kid for whatever reason, and so we're trying
• 16:46
  to reunify. Again, there's a lot of schools have
• 16:50
  thought about this. This is just opinion according
• 16:53
  to Mitch. But I think family systems is a little
• 16:57
  bit more all encompassing and overall more effective
• 17:00
  for the long term rather than just purely focusing
• 17:03
  on a reunification effort or reunification approach.
• 17:06
  And the reason is that reunification often focuses
• 17:09
  just on that one piece of the system of reconnecting
• 17:12
  parent and child where family systems will focus
• 17:16
  on. that, but it's also addressing the whole
• 17:19
  family system. And so what family systems therapy
• 17:21
  is, is addressing dysfunction within the family
• 17:25
  system, specifically with divorced couples. It
• 17:29
  often probably predated the divorce actually
• 17:31
  happening. So they were developing over time.
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  Now it's resulted in divorce. And now maybe that
• 17:38
  dysfunction has just grown exponentially because
• 17:40
  of the divorce. And so what the family systems
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  therapy process does is goes in and it looks
• 17:46
  at each piece of that system. So the mom, the
• 17:50
  dad, the kids, whoever is involved in that system.
• 17:53
  And we really look at where how do they contribute
• 17:56
  to the dysfunction and how is everyone affected
• 17:58
  by the dysfunction? And then in doing that, you
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  can address, okay, the reunification potentially
• 18:05
  that maybe needs to happen within this family.
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  But also how is the other parent then supporting
• 18:10
  that piece of it? How are they communicating
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  with their co -parent? How are they communicating
• 18:15
  with their child that's reconnecting with the
• 18:16
  parent? And expressing to them, like as I just
• 18:19
  said, the importance. I mean to the core, like
• 18:22
  on a cellular level that we feel a connection
• 18:24
  to our biological parents of how important that
• 18:28
  is. The reality that if this if there's not a
• 18:33
  successful way to repair this relationship, that
• 18:36
  it's a predictor for relationship failure in
• 18:38
  the future, specifically within the romantic
• 18:40
  relationships and adult relationships. And so
• 18:43
  just, yeah, that role of because I think there
• 18:47
  will be a parent that will be like, this is their
• 18:49
  thing. I don't really need to be involved in
• 18:52
  it. You know, it's their relationship. And I
• 18:54
  think that's really downplaying the impact in
• 18:57
  the role that they have. And downplaying the
• 19:00
  significance of their role within the family
• 19:03
  system. They're an important piece of it. Do
• 19:05
  you find that it's really hard for the, I'm going
• 19:09
  to call, I'm going to put some labels that maybe
• 19:10
  aren't right, but just so that we all kind of
• 19:12
  get on the same page. Sure. The bad actor parent,
• 19:15
  right? Maybe they did something wrong, right?
• 19:17
  And that's why there's having to be unification.
• 19:19
  And the good actor parent, is it sometimes really
• 19:22
  difficult for the good actor parent to engage
• 19:25
  in that family system therapy? There's this feeling
• 19:28
  that, well, I didn't do anything wrong. They're
• 19:31
  the one who did something wrong. But really what
• 19:33
  I'm hearing is for this family systems to work,
• 19:35
  they've got to be a pretty active participant.
• 19:37
  Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm, you know, I'll
• 19:39
  kind of give people a good, better, best scenario
• 19:42
  where it's like, hey, best case scenario. So
• 19:45
  everybody's participating. That gives you the
• 19:47
  best prognosis. We can still do some stuff that
• 19:51
  would be effective. But if certain people in
• 19:54
  the family are not participating. Well, I just
• 19:56
  want you to know that the ceiling kind of drops
• 19:58
  down a bit of where we can kind of go to with
• 20:01
  this. So I do think it is difficult a lot of
• 20:04
  times for the parent who does have the good relationship
• 20:07
  with the with their child, you know, because
• 20:09
  at that point they're not invested in the marriage,
• 20:12
  but they're still invested in their kids. Right.
• 20:14
  And so if that piece is all good, you know, I
• 20:18
  don't want to speak for for anybody, but, you
• 20:20
  know, I don't that relationship is. significantly
• 20:24
  less of a priority now that they're divorced.
• 20:26
  And so how do we, a big trick of the puzzle is
• 20:31
  how do we still get parents to prioritize and
• 20:33
  recognize the value in the other parent for the
• 20:37
  sake of their children, not necessarily for themselves.
• 20:40
  I mean, I think they benefit if they have a good
• 20:42
  co -parenting relationship too, less stress,
• 20:45
  more peace, but specifically just because it's
• 20:48
  what the kids will really need. because they
• 20:51
  need to know they can love both of their parents
• 20:53
  and they need to feel safe loving both of their
• 20:55
  parents and knowing, oh, mom is okay with me
• 20:58
  loving dad and dad is okay with me loving mom.
• 21:00
  And I feel that from them. But if I'm feeling
• 21:02
  like, hmm, yeah, you know, I can't be totally
• 21:05
  emotionally honest about positive things that
• 21:09
  are happening with parent A over here with parent
• 21:12
  B, well, it creates some of the dynamics I think
• 21:16
  we'll talk about in Turning Red, you know, as
• 21:18
  we talk about Turning Red. I mean that and that's
• 21:20
  exactly where my mind went like you could almost
• 21:22
  see my mind go there I was like, yes, because
• 21:24
  we're talking about suppression, right? Yeah,
• 21:26
  and when kids feel like they have to suppress
• 21:29
  those emotions and it's such a perfect time here
• 21:31
  So I'm gonna set the stage real quick. So turning
• 21:33
  red for anybody who hasn't seen it is This movie
• 21:38
  that's it's about this this gal who I don't know
• 21:41
  if she's a tween or a teenager, but she's 13
• 21:43
  She's 13. Okay, so she's 13 years old And she's
• 21:47
  got some pretty strict parents, especially her
• 21:49
  mom, right? And so his main character is Mei
• 21:52
  Lin. I think she goes, they call her Mei Mei,
• 21:54
  right? That's what mom calls her, but I think
• 21:56
  Mei Lin is her name. And she's got this really
• 21:59
  strict mom who's got this kind of exacting standard
• 22:01
  that she's expecting Mei Lin to always follow.
• 22:04
  And then at the beginning of the movie, you can
• 22:06
  see that manifest through Mei Lin's relationship
• 22:08
  with her friends. Loves her friends, has a great
• 22:10
  time with her friends, but she is pulling herself
• 22:12
  away because she's got to go do this, this, and
• 22:14
  this, and her mom... demands that she do you
• 22:17
  gotta go play her instrument their mom demands
• 22:19
  to do she's gonna do extra homework right their
• 22:21
  mom demands that she do she's got to go clean
• 22:23
  the temple that they have because her mom demands
• 22:26
  that she does it and so you see this relationship
• 22:28
  from the beginning that's just very strict nayland's
• 22:31
  always trying to please her mom trying to do
• 22:33
  exactly what her mom wants her mom has this very
• 22:36
  exacting standard that she has and then what
• 22:39
  you start to see is that that there's this suppression
• 22:42
  of her emotions that starts to come become manifest
• 22:45
  when she has these big emotions which is she
• 22:47
  turns into a red panda yes which is which is
• 22:50
  such a fun way to show how these emotions get
• 22:56
  bottled up and then come out right it comes out
• 22:58
  in this giant red panda right and so she's got
• 23:01
  to go through the experience of having these
• 23:03
  big emotions turning into a red panda finding
• 23:05
  a way to calm herself down and then not be a
• 23:07
  red panda. And then how that relationship plays
• 23:10
  out with her mom, who, as it turns out, this
• 23:12
  is a family trait. The family, the women in this
• 23:15
  family, that's what happens with them. When they
• 23:17
  reach a certain age, they become red pandas.
• 23:19
  They have to learn how to control it. And I guess
• 23:22
  you could say suppress it, right? Yeah. Yep.
• 23:25
  Kind of what happens, right? Mom suppresses it
• 23:27
  for a really long time. And then you start to
• 23:29
  see their relationship. play out and how they
• 23:31
  deal with those emotions of it coming out or
• 23:34
  does it need to be suppressed or just dealt with
• 23:36
  yeah that's kind of the overall stage of this
• 23:38
  of this movie right yeah yeah absolutely so So
• 23:41
  kind of talk us through when you were thinking
• 23:43
  about, obviously, your particular work and the
• 23:45
  things that you're passionate about and you deal
• 23:47
  with, especially when it comes to helping parents
• 23:49
  with their kids. Why Turning Red? Why was that
• 23:52
  the movie that you were like, this is the one
• 23:54
  we should talk about? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think
• 23:56
  just exactly that, because I see it every day,
• 23:59
  it seems like, you know, is these different family
• 24:02
  dynamics and certainly seeing. Kids or even adults
• 24:07
  suppressing their emotions, family systems dysfunction,
• 24:11
  and seeing that as well, you know, in turning
• 24:15
  red. Parenting as well. You know, how do you
• 24:18
  parent a teenager? Like I mentioned before, you
• 24:21
  know, as when we were talking about your daughter,
• 24:23
  like a six -year -old compared to a 13 -year
• 24:26
  -old. Well, when a kid hits 13, the ability to
• 24:31
  think. abstractly about things to critically
• 24:34
  think like that, that muscle starts to begin
• 24:37
  to develop. And so it's like this whole new thing
• 24:39
  and why you start to see that strive for independence,
• 24:42
  more of the rebelliousness or the argumentativeness
• 24:46
  start to come up because now they're like, now
• 24:48
  they can do that. Whereas before the brain literally
• 24:50
  wasn't able to do that. And so seeing that. It's
• 24:56
  what I work with every day. And so Turning Red
• 24:58
  popped up and I've actually recommended this
• 25:01
  movie to families I've been working with as kind
• 25:05
  of like a clinical example or case study to look
• 25:07
  at. Now, I want to acknowledge this, too. While
• 25:10
  we're talking about this, like from a clinical
• 25:11
  framework, this movie, I also do want to acknowledge
• 25:14
  the cultural aspect of this and acknowledging
• 25:17
  that I'm not a part of the Chinese culture. And
• 25:20
  so there's a lot there that I don't know about.
• 25:23
  And do you just want to acknowledge that? That
• 25:25
  piece of it as well. I mean, there's unique things
• 25:27
  in different cultures that come into play in
• 25:30
  the way that parents are seen or children interact
• 25:34
  and cultural pressures that come based off of
• 25:38
  different cultures that are there. Let me read
• 25:41
  a quote for you. I think this kind of sets the
• 25:44
  stage really well for some of the things that
• 25:45
  May Lynn is feeling right at the beginning. I'm
• 25:48
  going to get your take on it. She says right
• 25:50
  at the very beginning, the number one rule in
• 25:52
  my family, honor your parents. They're the supreme
• 25:55
  beings who gave you life, who sweated and sacrificed
• 25:58
  so much to put a roof over your head, food on
• 26:01
  your plate, an epic amount of food. The least
• 26:05
  you can do in return is every single thing they
• 26:07
  ask. Which is this wild, right? Which is wild.
• 26:11
  So, you know, when, when we're looking at this,
• 26:13
  of this, this girl who's experiencing this transition
• 26:16
  from her brain, not being able to understand
• 26:18
  that something different to now she's 13 and
• 26:20
  starting to like, what, what is that experience
• 26:23
  like for kids as we're trying to understand what
• 26:26
  our kids are going through? Yeah. Yeah. That's,
• 26:29
  I love that quote too. What it's just kind of
• 26:31
  funny, right? It's a funny way to kind of start
• 26:33
  off the movie. And I think everybody kind of
• 26:35
  chuckles at it. Parents and kids maybe chuckle
• 26:37
  at it. And and but what I my take on it, again,
• 26:42
  not that this is right or wrong, but my take
• 26:43
  is she she has grown up within this family system
• 26:48
  and developed these family norms, which is my
• 26:53
  parents provide. This is what their role is.
• 26:55
  They provide for me. food and clothes and shelter
• 26:58
  and all the things that i need and what my job
• 27:01
  is is to make sure i honor them and i follow
• 27:04
  through with my responsibilities and my duty
• 27:06
  to them so in a sense um you know it's this kind
• 27:11
  of core foundational beliefs that we're seeing
• 27:14
  may uh share for the first time which is this
• 27:18
  is how i view the world and how i interpret the
• 27:20
  world which is And I've known this my whole life.
• 27:23
  This is what I do. I do everything that my parents
• 27:25
  ask. And that's what I do. And then this is what
• 27:28
  they do. But as we see throughout the movie,
• 27:30
  she's turned 13. You know, I think it's reasonable
• 27:34
  to surmise that, yeah, she's getting into adolescence
• 27:38
  where she's wanting that independence. And she's
• 27:40
  thinking differently about all of this stuff
• 27:42
  that she was originally brought up with. And
• 27:44
  so now she's wanting to kind of push back against
• 27:47
  that and challenge it, which is appropriate for
• 27:49
  a teenager to do. Yeah. Which I think sometimes
• 27:51
  as parents, we, we forget that. Yeah. Like, Oh,
• 27:54
  they're just being so difficult. Oh, they're
• 27:55
  just so hard. Like, right. Actually, I think
• 27:57
  their brains are developing normal. Like, yeah,
• 28:01
  this is kind of the way it's supposed to work.
• 28:02
  Doesn't mean it's fun. Yeah. Right. Doesn't mean
• 28:04
  it's easy to do and navigate with your kids,
• 28:06
  but actually it's pretty normal for kids to kind
• 28:08
  of start acting out and finding their own way.
• 28:10
  Yeah. Actually, I'd be more, more concerned if
• 28:13
  that, uh, That really obedient kind of phase
• 28:16
  that you see a little bit more with children,
• 28:19
  younger children, if that was also happening
• 28:21
  into adolescence. To me, that would say potentially
• 28:25
  is there a developmental delay here? And I don't
• 28:28
  want to see that in my 20 -year -old where they're
• 28:31
  now becoming rebellious, pushing back against
• 28:34
  authority figures. And now there's potential
• 28:37
  legal consequences for that because they're an
• 28:39
  adult. For sure. For sure. Okay, so let me take
• 28:42
  you to another quote that's not in the movie.
• 28:43
  Yeah. But I really like this one. Have you heard
• 28:47
  of Daniel Pink? Do you know who he is? I'm not
• 28:48
  sure. He's an author, public speaker, and he
• 28:50
  does a lot about motivations at work specifically.
• 28:53
  Okay. But I think this quote really is kind of
• 28:57
  core to what this development is being. What
• 29:00
  he said is, human beings have an innate inner
• 29:04
  drive to be autonomous, self -determined, and
• 29:08
  connected to one another. And when that drive
• 29:10
  is liberated, people achieve more and live richer
• 29:13
  lives. So he talks a lot about this idea of autonomy
• 29:16
  at work, that people need autonomy at work not
• 29:19
  to be micromanaged. But I think what we're seeing
• 29:21
  here with kids this age and May specifically
• 29:24
  here is that starting to realize that there can
• 29:27
  be some autonomy. And like we just said, it's
• 29:30
  pretty natural for that to start coming out.
• 29:32
  So what's your take on that both for kids and
• 29:34
  also maybe for us as adults on this idea of like,
• 29:37
  exactness and following this versus a bit more
• 29:39
  of autonomy. Yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, there's
• 29:43
  that exact use. You saying exactness makes me
• 29:47
  think of this other thing too, of like kind of
• 29:50
  tying it into discipline. Like there is also,
• 29:52
  there's room for autonomy and there's room for
• 29:55
  exactness. Um, you know, a, an exactness, whether
• 29:58
  it's, uh, following through with my routine or
• 30:01
  my schedule or whatever. Like we also know that
• 30:03
  is helpful for. Certainly for kids and adolescents
• 30:08
  and adults, adults are oftentimes helping provide
• 30:12
  that structure and that routine for their kids.
• 30:15
  And I think it's within that structure and routine
• 30:16
  where as a parent, you could look at where can
• 30:19
  I let out a little bit more rope as my kid gets
• 30:22
  a little bit older and they've started to develop
• 30:25
  more trust as well and let them fluctuate and
• 30:28
  experience some autonomy within that structure
• 30:32
  that you provide for them while they're still.
• 30:35
  uh, still a minor, but I, I, I totally think
• 30:37
  it's true. I mean, I think in my own personal
• 30:39
  experiences, um, I don't enjoy being micromanaged,
• 30:42
  you know, I enjoy being able to, to know kind
• 30:46
  of what the overall goal is or what we're working
• 30:49
  on. And then I can kind of be autonomous and
• 30:51
  going through my processes and, and utilizing
• 30:53
  my strengths to be able to do that because what
• 30:57
  my strengths are may not be your strengths. And
• 30:59
  so if I do it exactly the way you do it, it may
• 31:01
  not actually get the same result because that
• 31:05
  may not be my strong suit. And so being open
• 31:08
  to, hey, everybody has different strengths. There's
• 31:10
  more than one right way to do something. Let's
• 31:12
  allow some autonomy, provide the scaffolding
• 31:14
  or the structure when we need it to. But yeah,
• 31:18
  the autonomy is certainly important. I think
• 31:20
  about like being an adolescent. Oh man, I probably
• 31:22
  drove my parents crazy, like wanting to push.
• 31:25
  I actually had a manager when I was a teenager.
• 31:27
  He eventually started calling me the lawyer.
• 31:30
  Because I would just argue about everything.
• 31:32
  And I wanted to do things how I wanted to do
• 31:35
  them. I wanted that autonomy really bad. Yeah.
• 31:38
  Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick
• 31:41
  favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far,
• 31:44
  will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show?
• 31:47
  It helps us reach more people like you. We can
• 31:51
  design and create and build the most wonderful
• 31:53
  place in the world, but it takes people to make
• 31:56
  the dream a reality. I do think it's interesting.
• 32:01
  I love the point that you're making there, which
• 32:03
  is it's really both. We need to have both. We
• 32:05
  need to have this. We need to have autonomy,
• 32:07
  but we also need to have some exactness and some
• 32:10
  discipline and some structure. And finding that
• 32:12
  balance is part of the challenge of life. Totally.
• 32:15
  Your kids are learning it, and they're going
• 32:17
  to at times get it wrong. They're going to push
• 32:18
  too hard. Sometimes as parents, we're going to
• 32:20
  get it. Not sometimes. A lot of times we're going
• 32:22
  to get it wrong. We're going to try to be too
• 32:24
  exacting, or we're going to be too loosey -goosey
• 32:27
  on stuff. and allow our kids to take advantage.
• 32:29
  But I think for me, communication and open communication,
• 32:33
  that's really important, especially for employees,
• 32:36
  people I work with. Because the last thing I
• 32:39
  want to do is be micromanaging. I don't want
• 32:41
  to do that at all. I do have standards that I
• 32:44
  want to be upheld. And so when I have employees
• 32:46
  that are willing to have that open communication
• 32:49
  with me and say, hey. I really want to be able
• 32:52
  to do my own thing here. I want to be able to
• 32:53
  have a little more autonomy here, a little more
• 32:55
  discretion here. It's really helpful for me.
• 32:58
  And then if I can have that same conversation
• 32:59
  back, like, hey, what I want to do here is provide
• 33:02
  that for you here within these boundaries, within
• 33:05
  this standard that we need to have held here
• 33:07
  because we need to meet a certain standard, then
• 33:09
  you get to go explore around and see what that
• 33:11
  looks like to get there. Totally. And I don't
• 33:13
  even want to be in the position of micromanaging.
• 33:15
  people either. Like it's not, that's more work
• 33:17
  for me and it's more stressful. You know, I was
• 33:20
  just interviewing somebody recently and, um,
• 33:22
  you know, I just said, Hey, there's, you know,
• 33:24
  I will provide scaffolding and structure and
• 33:27
  the overall goals and things that need to get
• 33:29
  done, but I'm going to let you really decide
• 33:32
  whatever your process is going to be for that,
• 33:35
  you know? And, um, and that's what I would prefer.
• 33:37
  And yeah, I can step in as, as needed, or of
• 33:40
  course there to help answer any questions or.
• 33:43
  provide assistance along the way, but I don't
• 33:45
  want to be the person that's saying, no, you
• 33:46
  need to do this, this, and this, this way. Yeah.
• 33:49
  Yeah. Totally fair. So one of the things too,
• 33:51
  I think we see in turning red that, uh, that
• 33:54
  I wanted to get your take on too, is this idea
• 33:56
  of enmeshment versus empathy. Yeah. Because I
• 34:02
  mean, I think, I think we know that empathy can
• 34:04
  be a great tool. Yeah. Um, you know, being empathetic
• 34:07
  to somebody's situation, we can assume more positive
• 34:09
  intent. We could try to understand them more.
• 34:12
  But there's this line that we could cross over
• 34:14
  into being enmeshed with them, not knowing where
• 34:18
  we end and where they start. And I think we see
• 34:20
  that with Mei Mei and her mom, right? That they
• 34:24
  really had become enmeshed. I don't think Mei
• 34:28
  Lan understood where she ended and where her
• 34:30
  mom started. In fact, I think I actually have
• 34:33
  a quote from that. Where is it? Oh, yeah. So
• 34:38
  she says, I do make my own moves. It's just that
• 34:40
  some of my moves are also hers. Yes. You're like,
• 34:43
  well, OK. Another one that's so funny. And so
• 34:46
  how do we what is the difference for you between
• 34:49
  this idea of empathy versus enmeshment and how
• 34:51
  do we navigate that? Yeah. So I guess starting
• 34:55
  with enmeshment, enmeshment. uh typically is
• 34:58
  it's a dysfunctional family pattern where and
• 35:02
  you said it beautifully it's one of the best
• 35:03
  ways i've heard to describe it which is where
• 35:06
  does one person end and the other person begin
• 35:08
  and if it's hard to to the clinical term is differentiate
• 35:12
  that and differentiate the you know those two
• 35:16
  individuals um well then we start to look is
• 35:19
  is there enmeshment here and so yeah the the
• 35:23
  uh wanting to take credit for kids successes
• 35:27
  as as if they're your own you know i think the
• 35:30
  mom makes one comment today of like scholar today
• 35:35
  un secretary general tomorrow you know like she
• 35:38
  already has it planned out of like what her successes
• 35:40
  are gonna be and um and so you can kind of see
• 35:44
  like that to me would indicate like oh she's
• 35:46
  she is taking on may lynn's stuff as her own
• 35:49
  and so that that would to me would say okay there's
• 35:52
  there's some potential enmeshment there. And
• 35:55
  you see it throughout the movie as well, like
• 35:57
  enmeshment there, characterized typically by
• 36:00
  a total lack of boundaries or very blurred boundaries.
• 36:03
  So even simple things that I've noticed that
• 36:06
  I noticed as I was watching the movie again was
• 36:08
  there's this scene where may who's 13 also going
• 36:14
  through puberty developing crushes and you know
• 36:17
  romantic attraction and she starts kind of doodling
• 36:20
  in her notebook of the the little the cute guy
• 36:22
  at the the daisy mart and uh she like her mom
• 36:26
  her mom's here's her mom coming and so she drops
• 36:28
  the notebook or whatever you know um but the
• 36:31
  mom coming in without knocking you know just
• 36:33
  assuming oh yeah this is my room too essentially
• 36:36
  like i can just come in here whenever i want
• 36:39
  And so there's not really a boundary there. And
• 36:43
  then immediately taking the notebook when she
• 36:45
  sees it and looking through a private notebook
• 36:47
  of her daughters as well. So you see later in
• 36:51
  the movie, too, she goes under the bed and is
• 36:52
  looking around and finds all this stuff about
• 36:55
  the panda, you know, later. And so those were
• 36:58
  examples to me of a potentially enmeshed relationship
• 37:02
  where there's really not any clear boundaries
• 37:05
  there. What? could a parent do in those situations
• 37:10
  so that there is less enmeshment with that how
• 37:15
  should a parent approach some of those situations
• 37:17
  yeah you know i mean super super simply the opposite
• 37:20
  would be knock on the door um ask you know or
• 37:25
  have a conversation at least before looking through
• 37:27
  certain things because i mean as a parent too
• 37:29
  it's still your job to protect your kids and
• 37:32
  you definitely want to do it you don't want to
• 37:33
  be an absent parent and totally let them have
• 37:36
  free reign either so the um there's this book
• 37:40
  and i'm blanking on the name but it's uh oh the
• 37:44
  author is dr lisa demore but she talks i love
• 37:46
  the way that she talks about parenting teenage
• 37:49
  girls specifically and that when they do get
• 37:51
  to become an adolescent it's like things that
• 37:53
  they used to like to do or things that they still
• 37:56
  like to do that they would do with their door
• 37:58
  open now they like to just have it close now
• 38:00
  they like just having that sense of privacy you
• 38:02
  know and so being able to just recognize that
• 38:04
  that's normal that's normal in your your kid
• 38:07
  to have that autonomy that we were talking about
• 38:09
  and want that independence and have some of the
• 38:11
  stuff that's just theirs um having some conversations
• 38:14
  about that of of you know, negotiating, hey,
• 38:19
  I'm going to knock on the door before I come
• 38:20
  in. If I don't hear you respond or anything,
• 38:23
  I'm going to come in because I want to make sure
• 38:24
  you're safe and everything's okay. You know,
• 38:27
  but you can always contract for that ahead of
• 38:29
  time and just have open and transparent communication
• 38:31
  about that. I think that's almost everything
• 38:35
  can go better if there's transparency and there's
• 38:39
  a willingness to just have some conversation
• 38:41
  about it. and being willing to invite your teenager
• 38:44
  to the table to have a conversation because they're
• 38:46
  not a little kid anymore. They're not a young
• 38:48
  child where you really have to do everything
• 38:50
  for them. And just knowing where they're at in
• 38:53
  their phase of development, they want that autonomy.
• 38:56
  They want to be able to share their opinions
• 38:57
  and their thoughts too. How do we as parents
• 39:00
  create the environment to do that? Now, I could
• 39:04
  definitely be wrong on this, and I'm going to
• 39:06
  certainly accept that I might be. One of the
• 39:09
  things that I've been thinking about a lot lately
• 39:10
  is I think it really ties into this idea of autonomy,
• 39:14
  which is one of the things that my generation
• 39:18
  is perhaps complaining a lot about is that the
• 39:20
  younger generation, not millennials, but I guess,
• 39:24
  is it Xennials that's after that? Whatever. Yeah,
• 39:27
  Gen Z. Yeah, Gen Zs, that they won't take responsibility
• 39:32
  or that they don't take things seriously enough
• 39:35
  or that they're too entitled. At the same time,
• 39:40
  I think my generation and maybe I'm kind of Gen
• 39:44
  X, maybe I'm a little millennial, but Gen X more
• 39:46
  of like, you know, the 40s and 50s now that have
• 39:49
  raised their kids have really like continued
• 39:53
  to be a crux to their kids over time and continue
• 39:57
  to do everything for them or always bail them
• 40:01
  out or always want to do everything for them.
• 40:03
  And taking away, and it's with their consent
• 40:06
  probably, but like take away their autonomy.
• 40:08
  And yet we complain that kids aren't more autonomous
• 40:11
  and take responsibility. We're kind of creating
• 40:14
  that to some degree by not saying like, okay,
• 40:17
  go do your thing. Have your autonomy, especially
• 40:21
  as they get in their late teens and then they're
• 40:23
  in their early 20s. And yet we still, my generation
• 40:26
  still, I'm going to bring you on back. Let me
• 40:27
  do everything for you. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And
• 40:30
  I don't know that I have all the answers, but
• 40:32
  it's certainly, I would agree. I've seen that
• 40:34
  and I've had. multiple conversations with other
• 40:36
  people about that same thing of the differences
• 40:38
  in parenting, just generationally, how we're
• 40:41
  seeing that, you know, positively I've seen one
• 40:44
  thing, this study was on millennials specifically,
• 40:46
  but this, you know, this particular study showed
• 40:49
  that millennial fathers are much more involved
• 40:53
  in their kid's life than prior generations. You
• 40:56
  know, I certainly feel that I'm part of the millennial
• 40:59
  generation and that's one of the highlights.
• 41:01
  of my life is being able to be a part of my kids'
• 41:04
  lives, you know, and I admittedly, I work with
• 41:07
  families and I teach people how to recognize
• 41:09
  enmeshment or, you know, when we're not allowing
• 41:12
  autonomy. And I'm sure that's something that
• 41:14
  I'm going to continue to struggle with outside
• 41:16
  of the therapy arena when it's my own personal
• 41:19
  kids and I'm a parent, I'm not their therapist.
• 41:21
  It is a struggle. One interesting note I had
• 41:25
  on that too is I think, again, My school of thought,
• 41:29
  just according to Mitch, but the role that technology
• 41:32
  has also played in that as well. You know, I
• 41:36
  used to run a group for teenagers on healthy
• 41:38
  technology usage. And it doesn't mean no technology
• 41:42
  at all. It just means how do we use this actually
• 41:45
  as a tool and so that it doesn't become something
• 41:47
  that we're overusing or addicted to potentially.
• 41:50
  And one of the things that we talk about is younger
• 41:53
  generations. What was the ticket to freedom?
• 41:56
  Getting your license. Oh, it's huge. I can go
• 41:59
  drive. I can just go. I remember getting my license
• 42:01
  being like, I don't have anywhere that I have
• 42:03
  to go, but I want any reason to go. I mean, especially
• 42:06
  early on. My mom needed something from the grocery
• 42:08
  store. Yeah, I'll go do it. I just want to drive
• 42:11
  my car. I just want to go out. But you're seeing
• 42:14
  in younger generations, Gen Z specifically and
• 42:17
  younger, there's less interest in getting a driver's
• 42:22
  license. People are waiting. until they're 18
• 42:24
  or sometimes even later to get a driver's license.
• 42:27
  There's less interest in dating and romantic
• 42:30
  relationships in person. There's still, there's
• 42:32
  a lot more online dating. And so this, this stuff
• 42:36
  about being able to go out and experience the
• 42:38
  world and get out of the house, you know, you
• 42:40
  dream about these dreams that prior generations
• 42:42
  would have to get out of the cave, so to speak,
• 42:47
  is one of the terminologies I would use. But
• 42:49
  with technology, there's access to everything
• 42:54
  everywhere all of the time. To quote Bo Burnham's
• 42:58
  special, he has a song, anything and everything
• 43:00
  all of the time. You can get anything and everything
• 43:02
  you want all of the time through the internet
• 43:04
  and through technology. And so I don't even have
• 43:06
  to go out. I can just access it right here on
• 43:09
  my computer. And that's what we're seeing a lot
• 43:11
  too with these younger generations of their home
• 43:14
  more. And then I think it almost creates maybe
• 43:16
  this cyclical pattern of parents wanting to be
• 43:19
  more involved to either help. push them along
• 43:22
  or guide them even more with, with that. But,
• 43:25
  but we're definitely also seeing developmental
• 43:27
  delays with, with younger generations as well.
• 43:31
  Things that people were doing by 25 career family
• 43:35
  moving out, you know, that's getting pushed back
• 43:37
  further and further. Yeah, for sure. So when
• 43:40
  we, when we take a look at what Malin is experiencing
• 43:45
  and she initially starts becoming the red Panda.
• 43:49
  Yeah. So talk to me about what that really represents
• 43:53
  and, you know, what the implications are for
• 43:56
  our kids as they're going into their teenage
• 44:00
  years and what they're experiencing so that we
• 44:02
  can try to understand them better. Yeah, well,
• 44:04
  you know, I think the interpretation that I had
• 44:08
  from that was I think there's this piece of it
• 44:12
  of she is becoming an adolescent now and she's
• 44:16
  having these different things. pop up for her
• 44:19
  thoughts, feelings, experiences that are in direct
• 44:22
  contradiction of what she's been taught by her
• 44:25
  parents and especially her mom, right? Growing
• 44:27
  up. And it was okay up until now. And now her
• 44:30
  body's changing. I think the panda's partially
• 44:32
  a metaphor for puberty and just going through
• 44:34
  puberty and all of those changes as well. But
• 44:38
  I think it also represents some of those suppressed
• 44:40
  thoughts and feelings that Malin is interpreting
• 44:44
  as like, oh, and she's learning based off of
• 44:47
  the little, relationship feedback that she's
• 44:49
  getting from her mom. I can't share this thought
• 44:52
  or feeling because it's going to make my mom
• 44:54
  sad or it's going to hurt her somehow. And so
• 44:57
  she ends up just suppressing it, maybe writing
• 45:01
  things in her private journals, right? Having
• 45:03
  a different outlet for it. But eventually, and
• 45:06
  I think if I'm remembering the movie right, it's
• 45:09
  after the mom finds the journal. takes her down
• 45:12
  to the daisy mart i just think about how humiliating
• 45:15
  this would be as a teenager um and goes and is
• 45:19
  you know interrogating the the kid at the counter
• 45:22
  and then throws down the drawings that that may
• 45:26
  did in her her little journal and just yeah that
• 45:29
  would shatter my world as an adolescent right
• 45:32
  i mean as an adolescent your world is so social
• 45:34
  it's so built around your social life i think
• 45:37
  about like a junior high high school that is
• 45:40
  your life. Like there's not really much outside
• 45:43
  of family and then high school and what's going
• 45:45
  on there. You know, you almost can't even fathom
• 45:47
  what outside of high school and past high school
• 45:50
  even look like. And so I think that's what it's
• 45:54
  representing is this, this, this biological psychological
• 45:57
  change that may is going through and trying to
• 46:01
  learn how to navigate that within herself, within
• 46:04
  her school and friend community. And then how
• 46:07
  does she navigate that at home? Within her home
• 46:10
  dynamics as well and learning. Oh these two things
• 46:14
  are in conflict with each other I met as a result
• 46:16
  I'm having internal conflict and I don't really
• 46:19
  know how to navigate this so it stays stuck inside
• 46:22
  Eventually explodes after that that Daisy Mart
• 46:25
  incident with the Panda that that next morning
• 46:28
  Yeah, you know one of the things that you brought
• 46:30
  up is is really the importance of the friendships
• 46:34
  the social friendships that you have during that
• 46:36
  time and One of the things I thought interesting
• 46:38
  here was after she starts becoming the Red Panda,
• 46:41
  she has to find a way to kind of find, I don't
• 46:44
  know, equanimity, so to speak, right? She's got
• 46:46
  to find a way to calm herself down. Ends up being
• 46:49
  memories that she has with her friends, not...
• 46:52
  Her mom and her dad. Right. And she hides that
• 46:55
  from her mom and dad because she knows it would
• 46:57
  crush her mom. Yeah. And in reality, like that
• 47:00
  friend relationship, those three friends she
• 47:02
  had were very, very important to her. Yeah. So
• 47:04
  she's suppressing that like, yeah, can't tell
• 47:07
  my mom. Can't be honest because it'll crush her
• 47:10
  knowing that really my friends help calm me down.
• 47:12
  Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, you see
• 47:14
  that conflict, too, where mom, you know, I think
• 47:17
  it's Miriam that she doesn't approve of, mom
• 47:20
  doesn't approve of, you know. And, yeah, Mae
• 47:22
  doesn't really know how to navigate that and
• 47:25
  say, well, this is somebody I really care about
• 47:27
  and that I'm connected to. For you, what do you
• 47:31
  see as the importance of quality friendships
• 47:33
  for kids in their teens going through junior
• 47:36
  high and high school? Oh, man, I think it's,
• 47:38
  I think it's. I don't think it's an understatement
• 47:41
  to say that it's essential. I think it's essential
• 47:44
  that they have that peer support and that they
• 47:47
  do start to experience connection outside of
• 47:49
  the home. And it's hard. You know, I think, again,
• 47:52
  go back to my own kids. My kids are little right
• 47:54
  now, like five, three, and we have an eight month
• 47:57
  old. And I think about when they get to that
• 48:00
  point right now, they're so excited to see me
• 48:02
  when I get home and just like. I'm their world
• 48:05
  and it's the best feeling, you know, and then,
• 48:07
  but I know that it's not going to always be that
• 48:09
  way and it's not supposed to always be that way
• 48:12
  either. And so I know that's going to be hard
• 48:15
  is just personally, I think it's hard for most
• 48:17
  parents, but I think it is, is crucial because
• 48:21
  they are learning to how to navigate the world,
• 48:25
  navigate school responsibilities, taking those
• 48:28
  school responsibility on more. just on their
• 48:31
  own as they, especially as they get closer to
• 48:33
  like preparing for college, you know, the academics
• 48:36
  are really up to them. Nobody, whether they get
• 48:38
  an A or whether they get an F doesn't really
• 48:41
  impact the parent's career, right? It's not,
• 48:44
  it's not the parents. And that's another thing
• 48:45
  parents need to remember too, is it's not my,
• 48:47
  it's not my career, right? I need to differentiate
• 48:49
  here. I want them to do well. I really want them
• 48:52
  to do well, but it's also not mine. And how do
• 48:55
  I learn to take a step back from that? And their
• 48:57
  successes and failures are their own. That's
• 48:59
  really hard. Very hard. You know, for me, education
• 49:02
  always super important. Yeah. My dad was a school
• 49:06
  teacher for me. Getting higher education was
• 49:09
  always super important. I got good grades because
• 49:12
  I wanted to. Yeah. You know, and so I think with
• 49:17
  my kids, my oldest, he just school is not important
• 49:22
  to him. Yeah, it's just not. And, you know, I've
• 49:25
  tried like, OK, do I just. Do I just be super
• 49:28
  strict about him sitting down and doing homework
• 49:30
  every day after school? Do I just be really exacting
• 49:33
  that way? Sure. Or do I take a different approach
• 49:36
  and just try to find ways to guide him? And I've
• 49:40
  got to have some standard, right? I can't have
• 49:41
  him fail out of school. I need to have him graduate.
• 49:43
  But it's been this really difficult thing. And
• 49:46
  it's interesting because part of my take with
• 49:48
  him is he really just wants to be done with school
• 49:51
  and wants to start working. Okay. That's not
• 49:53
  so bad. Right. Like, okay. Yeah. I'm like, okay.
• 49:56
  He wants to, he wants to be an entrepreneur.
• 49:59
  He wants to run a business. He, um, he kind of
• 50:01
  has a mind that way. And I've, I've had to come
• 50:04
  around to the fact that like, look, higher education
• 50:07
  is probably not going to be his thing. And that's
• 50:09
  okay. Cause that's what he's choosing. Totally.
• 50:12
  Now, how can I support him in those choices that
• 50:15
  he's going to make? But it's hard. Oh, it's very
• 50:17
  hard. Yeah. It's very hard. So yeah, I, um, I
• 50:22
  can't remember the original question now, but
• 50:24
  we were, yeah, with social relationships and
• 50:28
  just how important that is, as they go and do
• 50:32
  that, if they're doing that from a place where
• 50:34
  they are operating alone and they're feeling
• 50:37
  loneliness, loneliness is a significant factor
• 50:41
  in mental health conditions, right? And so if
• 50:44
  they're feeling, I have no support, going to
• 50:46
  school is miserable for me because I have nobody
• 50:49
  that I connect with. no teachers, no kids or
• 50:53
  anything, that's going to be really impactful
• 50:56
  on their mental and emotional health. And so,
• 50:58
  you know, I think about going to school. I remember
• 51:01
  ninth grade, kind of similar to you, something
• 51:04
  just switched in me. And I was like, oh, I really
• 51:06
  want to go to college. And I was like, I really
• 51:08
  want to get good grades to be able to do that.
• 51:11
  And so there was that internal motivation and
• 51:13
  autonomy. I didn't even need my parents to like
• 51:15
  tell me, no, you need to get good grades. I understood
• 51:18
  that. And I wanted to do that. But a huge part,
• 51:22
  even then, knowing that that was my goal from
• 51:24
  the outset as a freshman, I would still say most
• 51:28
  of the time in the day -to -day, why I went to
• 51:30
  school was to see my friends. I wanted to hang
• 51:32
  out with them. Totally. They were going to be
• 51:33
  there anyways. If I didn't go, what was I going
• 51:35
  to do? And I mean, I'm generally pretty extroverted.
• 51:39
  I like hanging out with people and talking to
• 51:40
  people. And so that's where I wanted to be. I
• 51:43
  wanted to be there with them. And I know if I
• 51:45
  didn't have that social group, it probably would
• 51:47
  have been a lot different experience. I think
• 51:50
  that's right. My best friend, he was only a year
• 51:53
  younger than me, but two years younger in school.
• 51:55
  And he's smart. He's really, honestly, a lot
• 51:59
  smarter than me in a lot of things. But for him,
• 52:03
  it was a little bit more social. And so when
• 52:06
  our group of friends, we hung out all the time.
• 52:08
  We saw each other at school all the time. We
• 52:10
  did plays together. Once a lot of us graduated,
• 52:13
  and then he was still there. He was like, nah.
• 52:18
  this is for the birds yeah this is for the birds
• 52:20
  and he didn't end up graduating oh wow yeah he
• 52:22
  i mean he went and got his gd then he went and
• 52:25
  did college then he joined the sheriff's office
• 52:27
  he's now a lieutenant in the sheriff's office
• 52:29
  he's he's one of their main trainers like he's
• 52:32
  a brilliant dude like he he reads all the time
• 52:35
  he loves history right like super smart guy but
• 52:39
  the social part of it was really like really
• 52:42
  really important and when that wasn't there when
• 52:44
  his support went away yeah Then it was like,
• 52:47
  okay, this is not going to work out. And yet,
• 52:51
  like, I mean, he's still been successful. I wouldn't
• 52:54
  tell anybody, like, drop out of school, right,
• 52:56
  at all. But I do think it highlights, like, the
• 52:58
  importance of what those social relationships
• 52:59
  are, that our kids do need to have friends. And
• 53:02
  we want to encourage them to have, like, good
• 53:03
  friends, obviously. Yeah, absolutely. But those
• 53:05
  are really important relationships. Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:08
  So when we, again, look at this idea of the red
• 53:11
  panda, right? Yeah. Um, you know, what lessons
• 53:14
  are there for us from learning? Like once may
• 53:18
  started to figure out how to deal with having
• 53:21
  the, the red Panda and then to have it go away,
• 53:24
  but then having to decide that she want to keep
• 53:26
  this red Panda with her all the time or not.
• 53:29
  Yeah. Cause the women, um, in their family were.
• 53:33
  ultimately like suppressing it and putting it
• 53:35
  in a little trinket right so that it can't ever
• 53:36
  come out it's always going to be there locked
• 53:38
  away yeah and she makes this choice of like i'm
• 53:41
  not going to do that yeah i'm going to allow
• 53:43
  this red panda to be part of me totally right
• 53:45
  so what are the lessons that we can pull from
• 53:48
  that and the way that she was navigating that
• 53:49
  yeah so as i was watching it that was something
• 53:53
  that stood out to me too right here's like we're
• 53:55
  talking about family systems we're dealing with
• 53:57
  generations family systems operating. And so
• 54:01
  we're seeing these three generations from the
• 54:03
  grandma to the mom to May. And I'm sure it even
• 54:08
  predated that. The way they make it sound is
• 54:10
  like this is an ongoing history for a long, long
• 54:14
  time. And that's something to be aware of as
• 54:16
  well as the generational impact as well. And
• 54:19
  that's almost instilled into our DNA as well,
• 54:22
  which is pretty crazy to think about. And so,
• 54:26
  yeah, there's that natural piece of her but may
• 54:30
  ends up being the the person that that breaks
• 54:32
  that by saying no i want to accept this part
• 54:35
  of myself as a part of who i am um you know and
• 54:40
  talking with with families like really to be
• 54:43
  the difference to break pat generational patterns
• 54:46
  is it yeah it takes someone being willing to
• 54:49
  say i want to do it different and i'm going to
• 54:51
  do it different and i'm going to go against what
• 54:54
  my you know programming would be and what I've
• 54:57
  learned. And that is super anxiety provoking
• 55:00
  and super scary. Most people will choose familiarity
• 55:03
  over functionality. I'm going to choose what's
• 55:05
  familiar that that feels safer to me than choosing
• 55:09
  what's a little bit more functional because it
• 55:11
  was coming out in these ways. I would say that
• 55:13
  we're pretty dysfunctional in their family systems.
• 55:16
  Yeah. Um, but yeah, her, her making that decision
• 55:19
  to do it differently. You even see the scariness
• 55:22
  of it at the end when they kind of do the. uh
• 55:25
  the ritual or whatever at the uh the big stadium
• 55:28
  at the big concert right and all of her you know
• 55:32
  aunts and uh and grandmas and this is another
• 55:36
  thing on the connection piece of it i i feel
• 55:38
  like there was this big wall or this gap of connection
• 55:42
  between may and her mom and you see it in in
• 55:44
  her mom and her grandma you know yes that generational
• 55:47
  you know she's like how could she talk to her
• 55:50
  mother that way and then she's like ming it's
• 55:52
  your mother And she's like, I'm not here. And,
• 55:55
  you know, she hides. And so but there's this
• 55:59
  disconnect in this this to me, a loss of opportunity
• 56:03
  for genuine connection that can happen when we
• 56:07
  acknowledge and accept every single part of ourself.
• 56:11
  And so in that scene at the end, when you see
• 56:13
  them, yeah, you know, breaking open their their.
• 56:17
  little trinkets and things that were holding
• 56:18
  that panda that part of themselves that's the
• 56:20
  time you see them the most connected out of the
• 56:23
  whole whole movie and that really stood out to
• 56:26
  me it's like that that connection there the whole
• 56:28
  family connecting through that um it's also interesting
• 56:31
  to me to see how big mom's panda was to me that's
• 56:34
  an indication of like how much she had suppressed
• 56:37
  yeah and going through and then you get that
• 56:39
  brief picture of her as a child and that inner
• 56:42
  child piece of it and what her experience was
• 56:46
  and you and and may gets this opportunity which
• 56:48
  how cool would it kind of be to see your parents
• 56:51
  at that age right we just kind of always view
• 56:53
  our parents as being adults like they never were
• 56:55
  kids and stuff and so she gets that opportunity
• 56:58
  to see that um but as they're they're they're
• 57:01
  now kind of finished with the ritual may's the
• 57:03
  only one keeping the panda everyone else kind
• 57:05
  of goes back out the little portal thing um Mesa's
• 57:08
  something along the lines of like, although she
• 57:11
  wants to keep the panda, but I'm afraid it means
• 57:14
  that I'm going to lose you, you know? And I think
• 57:16
  that's where the enmeshment piece of it becomes
• 57:19
  really difficult to break is it's associated
• 57:23
  with, I'm going to lose this relationship if
• 57:26
  I try to set a boundary, you know, but she finally
• 57:29
  opens up about that and has, you know, gets to
• 57:31
  the core of, I think what, what. Her worst fear
• 57:35
  would be is if I set a boundary with you and
• 57:38
  tell you really how I feel, you're not going
• 57:40
  to love me anymore or you're going to reject
• 57:42
  me or I'm not going to have my mom. Yeah. The
• 57:45
  dad in those moments towards the end says something
• 57:48
  I think really profound, right, as he decides
• 57:53
  to weigh in. And one of the things he said is
• 57:55
  people have all kinds of sides to them and some
• 57:58
  sides are messy. The point isn't to push the
• 58:01
  bad stuff away. It's to make room for it. live
• 58:04
  with it so it was interesting you know his this
• 58:07
  take he's taking because it's like okay you have
• 58:09
  these these emotions you have these things that
• 58:12
  are tough and difficult and uh maybe mom doesn't
• 58:14
  like but like hey look it's part of who you are
• 58:17
  we're gonna we're gonna make room for it and
• 58:19
  we're gonna we're gonna live with these things
• 58:20
  because then you don't have to be suppressing
• 58:23
  who you are all the time Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 58:26
  I think that's great. I think that's probably
• 58:28
  what a teenager in that situation, that's exactly
• 58:30
  what they need to hear, especially from their
• 58:32
  parents. And then they can really feel like confident
• 58:34
  and trusted, like, Oh, I can, I can, this part
• 58:36
  of me is okay. You're telling me that you accept
• 58:39
  me this way, you know? And I think that's where
• 58:41
  she starts to develop a little bit more confidence
• 58:43
  and, and being willing to share that with her
• 58:46
  mom as well. She was getting it from dad. And
• 58:48
  one of the things, you know, within family systems
• 58:50
  is everyone's trying to achieve balance, you
• 58:54
  know, divorced family systems married family
• 58:56
  systems everyone just naturally kind of wants
• 58:59
  to achieve this balance um because that's what
• 59:02
  feels the most calming for our nervous systems
• 59:05
  right and i think you see that with the mom and
• 59:07
  the dad right like mom i would say you know pretty
• 59:11
  high in neuroticism and and you know very very
• 59:15
  achievement oriented focus just really wound
• 59:17
  tight where dad is the opposite of that and i
• 59:20
  think you act i think that Disney did a great
• 59:22
  job showing that relationship because I think
• 59:25
  it's actually really common that you have one
• 59:27
  parent who's really that way and you have one
• 59:30
  who's a little bit more lax. And on a subconscious
• 59:33
  level or maybe a conscious level, it's to achieve
• 59:36
  balance, to keep things balanced in a relationship
• 59:40
  dynamic. That's so interesting. And I think maybe
• 59:42
  that's why a lot of times you find that. Yeah.
• 59:44
  Yeah. That's so interesting. So as we kind of...
• 59:48
  wrap up about turning red before we jump to our,
• 59:51
  uh, or this or that or epifier segments, what,
• 59:53
  what's kind of your overall kind of takeaway
• 59:55
  from turning red that, you know, people can kind
• 59:59
  of learn from what, what's, uh, what are some
• 1:00:01
  of the most important things that, that you think
• 1:00:03
  people should know? Well, yeah, I'd say the,
• 1:00:07
  uh, kind of my mind, the way my mind organized
• 1:00:09
  this was like on the family level, the parent
• 1:00:11
  level and the individual level. And so on the
• 1:00:13
  family level, it's exactly what I was just saying
• 1:00:16
  is an understanding that within a relationship
• 1:00:19
  system and especially within families, everyone
• 1:00:21
  kind of naturally gravitates to their role within
• 1:00:24
  the family. And a lot of times that's subconscious.
• 1:00:27
  Sometimes I can be conscious, but subconsciously
• 1:00:29
  it's because it's. we're trying to achieve balance
• 1:00:32
  and feel, just keep things flowing, keep things
• 1:00:35
  functional, right? But what happens is that can
• 1:00:37
  lead to patterns of enmeshment or something like
• 1:00:39
  that, where it's actually not functional, but
• 1:00:42
  it's familiar and it helps me feel calm and it
• 1:00:44
  helps you feel calm. So we'll just kind of go
• 1:00:46
  this way with how we're doing things. But I like
• 1:00:49
  to frame it that way when I'm working with families
• 1:00:52
  as well, to kind of take some of the blame. out
• 1:00:55
  of it of like, oh, you're doing this, so I have
• 1:00:57
  to do this. Because if we have this understanding
• 1:00:59
  of we're operating from this place of we all
• 1:01:02
  just want to feel balanced and feel like things
• 1:01:05
  are functioning smoothly, then we can know, oh,
• 1:01:09
  this is a system and we're just reacting the
• 1:01:11
  way that we feel like we need to. One of my favorite
• 1:01:13
  quotes is, if you're not... aware of your system,
• 1:01:16
  then you're just reacting to your system. And
• 1:01:18
  so increasing that awareness of what's going
• 1:01:20
  on, I think really helps take some of the harshness
• 1:01:23
  or the criticism that we could potentially throw
• 1:01:25
  at family members and lay the groundwork for
• 1:01:28
  having an honest conversation. So that's the
• 1:01:30
  first thing I would say is like from the family
• 1:01:32
  perspective, from the parent perspective, there's
• 1:01:36
  this really great book by Dr. Dan Siegel called
• 1:01:38
  Parenting from the Inside Out. And it's one I
• 1:01:40
  recommend to parents all the time because essentially
• 1:01:42
  what he's talking about is Do your own work so
• 1:01:46
  that you can be a more effective parent. There's
• 1:01:49
  certain things, like if you went through a really
• 1:01:51
  hard time as a 13 -year -old, when your kid's
• 1:01:54
  13, you're probably going to get more triggered
• 1:01:56
  about different things that are going on. Like
• 1:01:59
  if you were, let's say socially you didn't have
• 1:02:02
  very many friends at school, and then your 13
• 1:02:04
  -year -old gets rejected at school. That's probably
• 1:02:07
  going to bring up some big things for you. I'm
• 1:02:09
  sure. And so just knowing that about yourself
• 1:02:12
  so that you're not being reactive in that parent
• 1:02:14
  child relationship as well. So that's the other
• 1:02:17
  thing I would say or take away to have his parent
• 1:02:20
  from the inside out, recognize what your triggers
• 1:02:22
  are, potentially even go to therapy, explore
• 1:02:25
  that a little bit more if it may be beneficial
• 1:02:27
  for you. And then lastly, on the individual level
• 1:02:30
  is kind of. what we see at the end of the movie,
• 1:02:32
  this integration, that quote that the dad says.
• 1:02:35
  And I think, and then may, I think ends the movie
• 1:02:37
  with like, we have these messy, loud parts of
• 1:02:41
  ourselves. I let it out. What about you? And
• 1:02:45
  it kind of ends with this challenge of, are you
• 1:02:47
  going to do the same thing? Right. And I think
• 1:02:49
  it's great because it invites the audience to
• 1:02:51
  reflect on what messy and loud parts of myself,
• 1:02:55
  which are totally acceptable. I can have all
• 1:02:57
  of these parts of myself. Am I not letting out?
• 1:03:01
  Which parts of those am I just holding on to?
• 1:03:03
  And am I willing to take the step to maybe let
• 1:03:06
  those out? And that's what I love about the integration
• 1:03:08
  of it and seeing her successfully integrate the
• 1:03:11
  panda into her life and the benefits that she
• 1:03:14
  gets from that, from being sincere, from being
• 1:03:16
  honest, from being vulnerable, you know, to talk
• 1:03:18
  about like Brene Brown, like the thing that's
• 1:03:20
  the most connecting is vulnerability. with people.
• 1:03:24
  And so being able to talk about those messy and
• 1:03:25
  loud parts, except those, those parts of yourself,
• 1:03:29
  those, those would be the three takeaways I would
• 1:03:31
  say. Fabulous. Love it. Okay. So let's jump into
• 1:03:35
  a real quick, uh, this or that segment. Okay.
• 1:03:37
  So it's just which you prefer, right? This or
• 1:03:40
  that. Okay. Here we go. Red Panda or Snow Leopard.
• 1:03:44
  Red Panda. Okay. They're actually really cute.
• 1:03:47
  Yeah. They're pretty small. Yeah. They're actually
• 1:03:48
  like super cute. Um, You have to dig deep. I
• 1:03:52
  don't know if you're going to know these ones,
• 1:03:54
  but Four Town or Powerline. Do you know Powerline?
• 1:03:59
  I don't know if I know Powerline. Goofy movie.
• 1:04:00
  Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Powerline's from the Goofy
• 1:04:03
  movie, right? Four Town from Red Panda, Powerline
• 1:04:06
  from Goofy movie. Well, you just reminded me
• 1:04:07
  of that. I'll have to do Powerline because that
• 1:04:10
  brings up a lot of nostalgia for me. I'm a very
• 1:04:13
  nostalgic person, too, so I love reminiscing
• 1:04:15
  and thinking about things like that. So, yeah,
• 1:04:18
  Powerline. Eye to Eye, right? That's the song
• 1:04:20
  from Powerline. Yes. Oh, it's so good. I just
• 1:04:22
  listened to it this morning, actually. I'm going
• 1:04:23
  to go listen to that right now. That's why I
• 1:04:24
  came up. I was like, oh, let's just listen to
• 1:04:26
  this. That's a great song. Playing an instrument
• 1:04:29
  or playing sports? Playing sports. You know,
• 1:04:32
  I love music and I wish that I would have learned
• 1:04:35
  how to play an instrument more. But I ended up
• 1:04:38
  playing sports growing up. So I'll go playing
• 1:04:40
  sports. Same, same. Cooking a nice dish or grilling?
• 1:04:46
  I mean, going back to our conversation before
• 1:04:49
  the podcast, I'd have to say. grilling yeah i
• 1:04:51
  thought you might yeah i thought you might but
• 1:04:54
  i was like i'm gonna still challenge it we're
• 1:04:55
  supposed to see maybe he's an amazing cook as
• 1:04:56
  well in addition to grilling no no fortunately
• 1:04:59
  my wife is an amazing cook so she compensates
• 1:05:01
  for my limitations there and uh usually i'm the
• 1:05:04
  one on the grill yeah i rarely cook yeah i i
• 1:05:07
  grill and smoke yeah And that's like my jam find
• 1:05:09
  me as well. And for me, it's smoking because,
• 1:05:12
  well, I'm over 40 and I'm told that like once
• 1:05:14
  you're 40, you start smoking meats and you really
• 1:05:17
  care about taking care of your lawn and what
• 1:05:19
  it looks like. I'm like, yeah, guilty and guilty.
• 1:05:21
  That's what I've done. So I'll own it. Um, late
• 1:05:26
  night talk or early morning walk. Oh man. Phase
• 1:05:31
  of life thing. If you were to ask me that as
• 1:05:34
  a. Teenager and college student, I'd say late
• 1:05:37
  night talk, but now early morning walk. Early
• 1:05:39
  morning is now my favorite time of day. I love
• 1:05:42
  that. Getting up when no one's awake and just
• 1:05:44
  kind of having that quietness and stillness before
• 1:05:48
  the day starts. Yeah, early morning walk for
• 1:05:50
  me. Same. That's my jam. Night at the movies
• 1:05:53
  or a concert? Oh, wow. That's really tough. Really
• 1:05:57
  tough because I love movies and I also love concerts.
• 1:06:01
  I'll probably have to say movies. I end up doing
• 1:06:03
  that. that more uh who's going to go into the
• 1:06:06
  movies yeah going to movies so fun there's something
• 1:06:09
  there's a buzz about going to it with other people,
• 1:06:11
  the shared experience you have and the smell
• 1:06:13
  of the popcorn. Yeah, it's visceral. I'm such
• 1:06:16
  a movie guy. Yeah, experience, love it. I love
• 1:06:18
  movies. Disneyland or Disney World? Disneyland.
• 1:06:22
  Yeah, I think Disneyland. You said you're a nostalgia
• 1:06:23
  guy, so I was thinking probably there. You grew
• 1:06:26
  up in, I mean, it was Northern California, right,
• 1:06:29
  for the most part, but I imagine you've probably
• 1:06:30
  been to Disneyland more times than Disney World.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah, a lot easier to get to for sure, and yeah,
• 1:06:35
  Disneyland is like. I remember watching the Disneyland
• 1:06:37
  documentary on Disney plus two and just the whole
• 1:06:40
  creation of it and everything. And I was like,
• 1:06:42
  this is so cool to me, you know? So yeah. I love
• 1:06:45
  me some Disneyland. Okay. Here's our rapid fire.
• 1:06:47
  Okay. Okay. Favorite Disney movie. Probably pirates
• 1:06:50
  of the Caribbean. Oh, and the first one, I take
• 1:06:53
  it. Yes. I mean, Curse of Black Pearl is so good.
• 1:06:56
  Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's incredible. Like it came
• 1:06:58
  out. It was just like a revelation. Like this
• 1:07:00
  thing is unbelievable. Yeah. And it's so quotable.
• 1:07:03
  I mean, so quotable. The soundtrack is amazing.
• 1:07:06
  Yeah. You know, I mean, there's a lot of Disney
• 1:07:08
  movies that I like. And that's I probably have
• 1:07:10
  a lot of favorites, to be honest with you. But
• 1:07:13
  that was the one that popped up first. Pirates
• 1:07:16
  is so good. Favorite Disney song. Probably It's
• 1:07:19
  a Small World. Really? Yeah. I think about Disneyland,
• 1:07:24
  some of my first times going there and just like
• 1:07:27
  being at the park. I don't know why, but that's
• 1:07:29
  a memory that I have from the first time I ever
• 1:07:31
  went to Disneyland is hearing that song and going
• 1:07:35
  on the ride. There must be something about it.
• 1:07:37
  I've had somebody else tell me that was their
• 1:07:38
  favorite Disney song as well. Yeah. And my wife
• 1:07:40
  loves It's a Small World. She loves going. We
• 1:07:43
  always have to go every time. Yeah. And I'll
• 1:07:45
  be honest, I could do without. I'm like, take
• 1:07:47
  it or leave it. Like if I have to go sit through
• 1:07:49
  it, I guess I will. I'll use it for like a nap
• 1:07:51
  during the middle of the day. Right. Cause it's
• 1:07:53
  just nice little shirt. Right. But some people
• 1:07:55
  love the smart world and you're one of them.
• 1:07:57
  So I like it. Yeah. Again, more nostalgic factor.
• 1:08:00
  But the thing I love about Disneyland too, is
• 1:08:02
  that. I just love that there's Disney music playing
• 1:08:05
  and you can just be like, oh, this is from that
• 1:08:07
  movie. Oh, this is from that movie. Or even if
• 1:08:09
  you don't know what it's from, it still just
• 1:08:11
  adds to the experience. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, they
• 1:08:14
  cure the experience from the front entrance to
• 1:08:16
  the end of the night. Favorite Disney princess?
• 1:08:21
  Ooh, probably... Oh, man, that's tough. Probably
• 1:08:28
  say Belle. Belle. She's a good one. She's a good
• 1:08:30
  one. That's a pretty popular pick. Yeah, I've
• 1:08:31
  always been more into brunettes than balloons.
• 1:08:34
  That's why. Favorite Disney villain? Captain
• 1:08:41
  Hook. Probably. Also goes into, I love Robin
• 1:08:47
  Williams. I was going to ask if it was the version
• 1:08:50
  of Captain Hook. Yeah, Dustin Hoffman. Yes. Yeah,
• 1:08:53
  it's so good. Dustin Hoffman is amazing as Captain
• 1:08:55
  Hook. Yeah, he does so good with that. And my
• 1:08:58
  kids recently. started watching Peter Pan for
• 1:09:01
  the first time not too long ago. And it's just
• 1:09:03
  so fun. Have you, have you taken them to Disneyland
• 1:09:08
  and gone on the Peter Pan ride? Yes, we have.
• 1:09:11
  Well, not my youngest, the baby we haven't yet,
• 1:09:14
  but the other two. Yeah, we did. That's a huge
• 1:09:16
  nostalgia ride. Yeah. Like it is such a popular
• 1:09:18
  in fantasy land. It's by far the most popular
• 1:09:21
  ride in fantasy land. Like everybody wants to
• 1:09:23
  go on Peter Pan. Yeah. You check the wait time.
• 1:09:25
  Yeah. Sometimes it's super long. Yeah. Favorite
• 1:09:29
  food? Just food in general? In general. Oh, man,
• 1:09:33
  probably pizza. I love pizza. Pizza's so good.
• 1:09:37
  What about favorite food at Disneyland? Oh, favorite
• 1:09:39
  food at Disneyland. Um, certain things I always
• 1:09:42
  got to get are a turkey leg. Usually we'll get
• 1:09:45
  myself a turkey leg just to kind of walk around
• 1:09:47
  and eat, you know, walk around this giant piece
• 1:09:50
  of meat. Exactly. I think the first time I ever
• 1:09:53
  actually had a turkey leg was at Epcot and it
• 1:09:56
  changed my life. So from there on out, yeah,
• 1:09:58
  you're a loyalist. You get the turkey leg, but
• 1:10:00
  I love it. Also then follow it up with like a
• 1:10:02
  little, uh, Mickey mouse ice cream bar thing
• 1:10:05
  for dessert. Yeah, absolutely. Nice way to polish
• 1:10:07
  it off. Favorite ride at Disney? Any Disney park.
• 1:10:11
  Probably also Pirates of the Caribbean. Again,
• 1:10:15
  not that it's the most exhilarating ride. I mean,
• 1:10:18
  it has the drops at the beginning and whatnot,
• 1:10:20
  but the aesthetics and the experience and then
• 1:10:22
  how they integrated the movies into it now, too.
• 1:10:25
  I remember going to a pre -movie, you know, and
• 1:10:28
  then they... Yeah, obviously brought in Jack
• 1:10:30
  Sparrow and everything. So it's fun. It's just
• 1:10:33
  a classic. It's one where, you know, if I had
• 1:10:35
  to pick just one ride to go to while I was at
• 1:10:38
  Disneyland, I'd say, okay, well, let's do Pirates.
• 1:10:41
  That's the one that I'll do. I have to go on
• 1:10:43
  Pirates when I go. It's like a must -do. And
• 1:10:45
  the last one here is favorite parenting tip.
• 1:10:49
  Favorite parenting tip, I mean, kind of ties
• 1:10:52
  into what my takeaway was, is parenting from
• 1:10:55
  the inside out. And maybe another way I would
• 1:10:59
  say that is increasing your distress tolerance
• 1:11:02
  to throw in a clinical term, like your ability
• 1:11:05
  to tolerate when your kid is going through something
• 1:11:08
  difficult or brings up emotions from you, your
• 1:11:11
  ability to just sit in that and to tolerate and
• 1:11:14
  not be reactive. If you can learn how to do that,
• 1:11:17
  you're really setting yourself up to successfully
• 1:11:20
  have some conversations and help your... help
• 1:11:23
  model for your kid, for your teen, how to handle
• 1:11:26
  things appropriately and maturely. Yeah. It's
• 1:11:29
  a great one, Mitch. Thank you. Thanks Ryan. Yeah.
• 1:11:31
  This was super fun. I was super excited when
• 1:11:33
  you, when you asked me to come on. So thanks
• 1:11:34
  for having me. It was a blast. Thank you so much.
• 1:11:37
  As you leave this conversation, remember that
• 1:11:40
  yes, the past can hurt and you can either run
• 1:11:43
  from it or you can learn from it. So here's to
• 1:11:46
  learning and finding joy in the journey. See
• 1:11:50
  you real soon.