Latest / Voices for Voices® / How Rewiring Your Thoughts Can Calm Anxiety, Improve Sleep, And Change Your Life | Ep 383

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How Rewiring Your Thoughts Can Calm Anxiety, Improve Sleep, And Change Your Life | Ep 383 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Hey everyone, it's Justin Alan Hayes, the Voices for Voices, our TV show and podcast.
• 0:08
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're so excited to be with you as always.
• 0:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh we are here with episode number 383.
• 0:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're gonna be uh grateful to uh at least catch uh episode 400 before the end of calendar year 2025.
• 0:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So it's just really an an amazing time, and and it's all due to our viewers or listeners, you it's due to our guests, like the one we have today.
• 0:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm so excited uh because we we talked so much about how the organization and the show is reaching uh individuals thousands and thousands of miles away.
• 0:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, and the beautiful thing about technology when it does work, and right now it's working, uh, is we're able to bring so many different perspectives from individuals uh all across the world.
• 1:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And one of the beautiful things that you're gonna hear uh from our guests is no matter where we live, where we come from, where we move to, the the topics that our guest is gonna talk about, they happen to human beings.
• 1:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so there's human beings in the United States, and there's human beings in Australia and all areas in between on our great uh planet Earth, and we're so grateful for you to be joining us today.
• 1:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So uh again, I'm gonna do a uh a brief intro of our our guest, uh Helen Dugdale, uh coming to us from uh around Sydney, Australia at this time.
• 1:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so I am going to do my thing and give a little bit of a background on our our guests.
• 2:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so Helen Dugdale, she is a uh brain and sleep and anxiety, and uh linking all those to thriving, uh, and and how our brain uh operates and works through all those aspects.
• 2:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, you know, the the sleep is for me, it's a it's one of the big things that we we try to do is we we try to get enough sleep.
• 2:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I think the older we get that we realize that our body repairs itself and does a whole lot of things that Helen's gonna get into.
• 2:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so uh she is an expert on sleep and anxiety.
• 2:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She's really the the brain expert.
• 2:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, and then we definitely are gonna be uh threading all of that together to uh give us a good look on how that all affects thriving, which I think all of us want to do on a daily base and just just in life in general.
• 3:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So, Helen Dugdale, thank you so much for joining us.
• 3:15
  Helen Dugdale: And thank you for having me, Justin.
• 3:17
  Helen Dugdale: It's a pleasure to be with you and um hopefully I can um give share some tips with your listeners.
• 3:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely.
• 3:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh maybe you can give a little bit of background and how you became interested in the work you you did, and then we can just work our way through the continuum.
• 3:37
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, um, good question.
• 3:38
  Helen Dugdale: A lot of people ask me that because I started out in as a um in science.
• 3:44
  Helen Dugdale: I did a science qualification back in the 70s, and I worked in scientific research for 20 or 30 years, and then I went and got a teaching qualification and I taught science at secondary schools.
• 3:59
  Helen Dugdale: Then I went back into research, and then I started my own business, uh personal development, running personal development workshops for people, and that includes motivation, communication skills, confidence building, leaderships, leadership skills, goal setting, all those sorts of things.
• 4:20
  Helen Dugdale: And while I was doing that, I thought I should really go back to university and study psychology.
• 4:26
  Helen Dugdale: So I went back and got a graduate diploma of psychology, and when you think about it, everything we do has to do with psychology.
• 4:36
  Helen Dugdale: And um, and while I was um, and so I've I graduated that um psychology on my 62nd birthday, and that was a few years ago.
• 4:47
  Helen Dugdale: So I'd tell everyone it's never too old to change careers or to do something new.
• 4:54
  Helen Dugdale: It's you're never too old.
• 4:56
  Helen Dugdale: Um so I've been doing um the brain coaching for the last 11 years as individuals and in group workshop situations.
• 5:06
  Helen Dugdale: And um uh during COVID with the lockdown, I couldn't see that many people um face to face.
• 5:15
  Helen Dugdale: So I thought, what will I do with my time?
• 5:17
  Helen Dugdale: So I wrote a book, put insomnia.
• 5:19
  Helen Dugdale: And um, because I realized there's so much information out there about insomnia.
• 5:28
  Helen Dugdale: Why are people still having problems sleeping when there's all this information there?
• 5:33
  Helen Dugdale: We all know what we should be doing, why aren't we doing it?
• 5:37
  Helen Dugdale: Um, you know, we know it's no point tossing and turning at two o'clock in the morning, but we still do it.
• 5:45
  Helen Dugdale: Our brains just can't switch off.
• 5:48
  Helen Dugdale: So I did some research into that.
• 5:52
  Helen Dugdale: What is and because I was getting good results with my clients and helping them sleep.
• 5:58
  Helen Dugdale: So I'm thinking, if I can help people, what about you know, what am I doing right that's helping people with their sleep?
• 6:08
  Helen Dugdale: So I looked into it and wrote a book, and I've I um worked out all the bad things you should stop doing and all the good things that you should start doing.
• 6:18
  Helen Dugdale: And um, and a lot of it, if it's if it's not your sleeping environment or if it's not a physical or medical ailment, usually it's an emotional thing that's keeping you awake.
• 6:29
  Helen Dugdale: So the the the the secret is to find out what is it that's keeping you awake.
• 6:35
  Helen Dugdale: And some people think they might know what it is, but it might be something else.
• 6:40
  Helen Dugdale: And everyone is different.
• 6:42
  Helen Dugdale: Everyone's causes and cures are different.
• 6:46
  Helen Dugdale: Um so anxiety is a big culprit in in a and um in a lot of people's lives.
• 6:53
  Helen Dugdale: Um and that's what's keeping people awake.
• 6:56
  Helen Dugdale: It also affects other parts of your life, as you were saying in your introduction, that um if if you don't sleep well, it can affect other parts of your life and other parts of your body.
• 7:08
  Helen Dugdale: And things will start to break down.
• 7:11
  Helen Dugdale: Well, I'm I mean, it's more than just beauty sleep, or it's more than just being grumpy the next day, isn't it?
• 7:18
  Helen Dugdale: With if you don't get enough sleep.
• 7:20
  Helen Dugdale: We all know people who are grumpy from not having enough sleep, but it's it can be worse than that.
• 7:26
  Helen Dugdale: It can affect your um decision-making skills.
• 7:31
  Helen Dugdale: Like people who are so tired during the day that they'll grab that energy drink or that chocolate bar when they know they shouldn't be doing that, but it helps get them through the day.
• 7:42
  Helen Dugdale: Or they might make mistakes at work because they're tired.
• 7:46
  Helen Dugdale: Then there's also the physiological effect of not enough sleep, that it could lead to um it uh those autoimmune diseases, or I know people who have got rashes because they haven't got enough sleep.
• 8:03
  Helen Dugdale: So there's all sorts of things that can happen if you don't get enough sleep, and a lot of it is due to anxiety.
• 8:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I believe it so much.
• 8:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh I I do have uh generalized anxiety.
• 8:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I think we all to some extent have anxiety, and that was one of the things before I got diagnosed with uh major depression and general anxiety and low spectrum autism and AD to H, all those, all those fun things eight eight years ago.
• 8:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But I was at least able to put my finger through professionals on things that I could do, or at least try to do, that I may have overlooked of well, what's the big deal if I stay up till one or two in the morning working on something or watching a movie or a show and and then trying to rise early.
• 8:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh I remember my dad, he would say, you know, you gotta he called you gotta stop burning the candle at both ends of getting up early uh and uh going to bed late, and uh that led to uh a lot of poor decisions over the course of my life.
• 9:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But one of them was uh I was driving home late at night.
• 9:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I was uh out partying uh the two nights prior and I needed rest, but I was like, oh, I'm gonna go hang out and be an hour away from uh where I live, and I ended up uh I wasn't under the influence when I uh ripped wrecked my car, but I I totaled my car, and that was a huge thing that uh I I kind of cataloged and it was back in my mind, but I didn't do anything at that time.
• 9:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So I think it's great the work that you're doing and bringing your uh expertise to our viewers and listeners because it is a very true thing, no matter how young we are, uh or how uh how uh advanced and and and uh experienced, uh try not to use age, but to your point, that is awesome that you went at at a uh a little bit like of a non-traditional age to get your degree, and I'd love that to be able to share as you are for viewers and listeners to say, like, you know, oh well, I'm too old, or uh, you know, there might be reasons why they're not able to that don't have anything to do with the age, but the thick comes down to the age of like, you know, I can't do that.
• 10:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so thank you for that motivation and that aspect.
• 10:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I guess I wanted to just ask, so how is your sleep?
• 10:47
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Do you is it easy to practice or is it is it tough?
• 10:53
  Helen Dugdale: Uh well, thanks for asking a personal question.
• 10:56
  Helen Dugdale: Um, I didn't used to sleep very well at all.
• 11:04
  Helen Dugdale: Um, but now with with everything I've learned over the last um few years of putting that into practice, and I want people to know that it is possible to change.
• 11:15
  Helen Dugdale: You can change.
• 11:17
  Helen Dugdale: And all the people I've helped, I've helped people that have only had two or three hours a night sleep for 40 years.
• 11:25
  Helen Dugdale: And then they started sleeping through the night.
• 11:29
  Helen Dugdale: And um, so different people, um different cures will work for different people.
• 11:36
  Helen Dugdale: What works for someone might not work for somebody else.
• 11:39
  Helen Dugdale: You have to try all the different things that's going to suit you and your lifestyle.
• 11:44
  Helen Dugdale: But what I've learned to help myself is the deep breathing helps, being relaxed.
• 11:51
  Helen Dugdale: So your aim is to be relaxed.
• 11:54
  Helen Dugdale: If if you keep saying, I have to sleep, I have to sleep, why can't I sleep?
• 11:59
  Helen Dugdale: And getting all upset, well, that just builds the cortisol up in your body, and you won't be able to relax enough to go to sleep.
• 12:07
  Helen Dugdale: So it's really important to aim for to be in a relaxed state rather than aim to sleep.
• 12:14
  Helen Dugdale: You see what you there's a slight difference.
• 12:17
  Helen Dugdale: And as one of my clients said, you have to stop fighting it because that's just going to make you feel more stressed.
• 12:26
  Helen Dugdale: So stop fighting it.
• 12:28
  Helen Dugdale: And gradually, yeah.
• 12:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, no, go ahead.
• 12:34
  Helen Dugdale: And gradually you'll because your brain's got into the habit of being awake after two or three hours, maybe.
• 12:41
  Helen Dugdale: So you've you've got to stop that, change that way of thinking and introduce a new pattern of thinking, a new pattern of reacting.
• 12:50
  Helen Dugdale: And it is possible to change your neural pathways in your brain.
• 12:54
  Helen Dugdale: It's called neuroplasticity.
• 12:56
  Helen Dugdale: A lot of people might have heard of that now, but it is possible.
• 13:01
  Helen Dugdale: It doesn't matter how old you are.
• 13:03
  Helen Dugdale: I had a 94-year-old who couldn't sleep during the night at night and was getting all anxious.
• 13:10
  Helen Dugdale: And then because they were anxious and not sleeping, that had an effect on their health.
• 13:16
  Helen Dugdale: And um, and once we worked out reduced the anxiety and got her to sleep during the night through the night, her blood pressure went down and her doctor reduced her medication.
• 13:29
  Helen Dugdale: And she started enjoying her life again.
• 13:32
  Helen Dugdale: It was and and her six-year-old daughter sent me a beautiful email saying what a difference it had made to her elderly mother's life.
• 13:42
  Helen Dugdale: It was just it was so rewarding to hear that.
• 13:46
  Helen Dugdale: So you you're never too old, and it is possible to change.
• 13:51
  Helen Dugdale: So I want to give people the hope that it you can change.
• 13:56
  Helen Dugdale: It is possible, but it's up to you to repeat your new habits.
• 14:01
  Helen Dugdale: And that's what a habit is, it's repetition.
• 14:04
  Helen Dugdale: We want to get rid of the bad habits and introduce good habits.
• 14:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: How does that make you feel?
• 14:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So on the emotion scale, of uh you know, uh there's all kinds of different work out there and what people can do to make a make a living and earn a living.
• 14:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And how rewarding, as you mentioned with that, the email from the daughter of the 94-year-old, uh, that that email, how rewarding it made you feel.
• 14:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, can you just share what that's that's like?
• 14:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So if somebody has an interest in that type of work.
• 14:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, uh maybe I'll look into that.
• 14:40
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Helen Dugdale: It was humbling that to be able to help someone like that.
• 14:44
  Helen Dugdale: And it was also like a feeling of elation.
• 14:47
  Helen Dugdale: I just felt so happy for that lady.
• 14:50
  Helen Dugdale: Just really happy that and she was so relieved that she that she wasn't so anxious anymore.
• 14:57
  Helen Dugdale: It was, yeah, I was very happy for her, and I was elated that we had that outcome.
• 15:03
  Helen Dugdale: That um the the people that have suffered for another one was 27 years with three hours a night.
• 15:11
  Helen Dugdale: And then after after our first session, she slept nine hours.
• 15:15
  Helen Dugdale: She said, I couldn't believe it.
• 15:18
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, amazing.
• 15:22
  Helen Dugdale: So, but what what we do is we find out what the original trigger is that's keeping you awake.
• 15:29
  Helen Dugdale: Then we resolve that feeling like it it happened.
• 15:34
  Helen Dugdale: We're not denying that it happened, but that original trigger, it did happen.
• 15:39
  Helen Dugdale: It's how you're going to let it affect you from now on.
• 15:43
  Helen Dugdale: Do you still want it to keep impacting on your life, or do you want to um resolve it and move on?
• 15:49
  Helen Dugdale: So the the third stage is I get people to come up with some strategies that they can implement that are going to suit their life.
• 15:59
  Helen Dugdale: Like as I was saying before, what works for one person might not work for another.
• 16:04
  Helen Dugdale: Um but um there's all different um sorts of tips in the book, and I've got a one pager, a PDF one pager with my top tips of sleeping better.
• 16:16
  Helen Dugdale: If people want to contact me, I can send them the one pager, or there's plenty more tips in the book.
• 16:22
  Helen Dugdale: But um but but try what works for you, but the aim is to be relaxed.
• 16:29
  Helen Dugdale: And the other thing is that a lot of people are beating themselves up for whether it's valid or not, they're beating themselves up for whatever reason, and that's keeping them awake.
• 16:43
  Helen Dugdale: What I also get for all of my clients is to tell me what are your good points?
• 16:49
  Helen Dugdale: What do you like about yourself?
• 16:52
  Helen Dugdale: What do your family like about you?
• 16:54
  Helen Dugdale: What do your friends like about you?
• 16:56
  Helen Dugdale: And a lot of people say, Oh, I don't know, you know, I can't think of anything.
• 17:01
  Helen Dugdale: Then I really get it out of them what their good points are.
• 17:05
  Helen Dugdale: So then I um as part of the the moving on strategies, just keep reminding yourself, what are what are you good at?
• 17:14
  Helen Dugdale: What do you like about yourself, rather than continuing to dwell on your bad points?
• 17:19
  Helen Dugdale: Because that's going to keep you awake at night.
• 17:22
  Helen Dugdale: Oh, I'm useless, oh, I'm bad at this, I'm no good at that, da-da-da-da-da.
• 17:27
  Helen Dugdale: Why did I do that?
• 17:28
  Helen Dugdale: Why did the person look at me that way?
• 17:30
  Helen Dugdale: Whatever is going through your mind, even though you know it's silly, why are you doing this to yourself?
• 17:37
  Helen Dugdale: You can't stop it.
• 17:39
  Helen Dugdale: So I help you stop that that behavior and introduce new more positive behaviors.
• 17:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I love it.
• 17:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That's uh you're bringing unity to people in a positive way.
• 17:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I know for myself, uh, the time that I spent in corporations and larger uh yeah, larger companies, that uh it there was so much focus on the negative, like, okay, what can I do better when the you know performance reviews or whatever they come up and it really did, it took away a lot of my happiness of what I'm doing good.
• 18:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It doesn't mean we're perfect, not by any strokes, but when we just like you said, just we we think about things that oh, I'm not good at this, I'm not good at that, then it keeps my mind and and others and kind of that rumination, and we just start thinking about the same thing over and over and over again.
• 18:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And then when you find that thing or that person like you, uh with your with your book, with your experience, with your one pager, to be able to say, hey, what are some good points?
• 18:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Not okay, yeah, yeah, we do.
• 19:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We need to work on this, that's okay.
• 19:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But let's start and talk about some positives.
• 19:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So I love that that part of your your process.
• 19:10
  Helen Dugdale: And and we're always learning, we can always improve.
• 19:13
  Helen Dugdale: And as you said, um we don't have to be perfect, and when you think about it, there's no such thing as perfection.
• 19:21
  Helen Dugdale: You might get to the top of your tree and then people start saying, I could have done it better, I could have done it faster, I could have done it this.
• 19:30
  Helen Dugdale: But so you'll you there's no such thing as perfection.
• 19:34
  Helen Dugdale: You can always strive to be better, though.
• 19:37
  Helen Dugdale: Strive for improvement, but don't beat yourself up if you're not perfect.
• 19:43
  Helen Dugdale: I even know some people who don't even start a project because they think they're not going to be perfect.
• 19:50
  Helen Dugdale: So that's procrastination at its utmost.
• 19:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely.
• 19:58
  Helen Dugdale: And that that brings Brings me on, I'm halfway through my second book about anxiety.
• 20:03
  Helen Dugdale: So um and and in my research, the the the scientists or the medical people are saying out of all the mental health disorders, anxiety is the easiest one to overcome.
• 20:18
  Helen Dugdale: And you think, wow, that is a big statement, isn't it?
• 20:22
  Helen Dugdale: And but it's true.
• 20:25
  Helen Dugdale: You keep working on yourself, you can reduce your anxiety.
• 20:29
  Helen Dugdale: It's and everyone is different.
• 20:33
  Helen Dugdale: Again, everyone is different, but it is possible.
• 20:35
  Helen Dugdale: I want to give people that hope.
• 20:37
  Helen Dugdale: It is possible.
• 20:40
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's good that because it's not just okay, I know I need to reduce my anxiety.
• 20:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's finding those good things, those good traits about, so it's more like a process of starting with positive to make it a little bit easier to get to lower anxiety, even just a little bit.
• 21:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm sure you've seen huge improvements.
• 21:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: People are or your clients are saying, Wow, I I never looked at it like that, or I forgot about that because that was so long ago that I thought it didn't matter.
• 21:19
  Helen Dugdale: And well, you can also just start with gratitude.
• 21:22
  Helen Dugdale: What are you grateful for in your life?
• 21:25
  Helen Dugdale: And then that leads on to a like a snowballing of positive habits.
• 21:31
  Helen Dugdale: And it like you don't have to think of a hundred things, just start off with three things that you're grateful for.
• 21:38
  Helen Dugdale: And I know there's a lot of people out there sprooking gratitude, but it is it is helpful.
• 21:45
  Helen Dugdale: If you start thinking of what are you grateful for, and then what are your good points, you know, it does have a snowballing effect and makes you feel good rather than dwelling on the negatives all the time.
• 21:58
  Helen Dugdale: So if people who are listening, if you could just think of three things right off the top of your head that you're grateful for, it doesn't have to be major, like doesn't have to be a million dollars, but you're grateful for having fresh water, you're grateful for um a roof over your head, you're grateful for someone in your life, or a shop a shopkeeper smiled at you.
• 22:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Doesn't have to be anything, and that's what I've I've learned and is in my mind, I I think of what's gotta be something major, like it's gotta be like it's gotta be something big, and it doesn't need to be, it can be very small and and minor, going, oh my gosh, I overlook these things on a daily basis, and while it might not be a huge thing, it gets that process of positivity started, and that's where the whole deal is to break that negativity process and just get started.
• 23:07
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And like I feel the same way about you know just being grateful for a roof overhead and and clean drinking water and things that we just in our mind are so far in the future that we don't sometimes say, okay, like can I ground myself and what am I grateful for?
• 23:28
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, the clothes I have, the the ability to have the uh internet to be able to have this beautiful conversation.
• 23:37
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:38
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, you got it.
• 23:41
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh no, I I'm learning still on the so much.
• 23:45
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's really incredible work.
• 23:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So when we get to the thriving part of your your process of wanting to get there, you're starting with the positivity and then you're working through uh the sleep and the anxiety and multiple other uh areas.
• 24:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh but it it looks like that thriving is where we maybe want to get to, but that looks probably different for everybody.
• 24:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Is that correct?
• 24:19
  Helen Dugdale: Yes, yeah.
• 24:20
  Helen Dugdale: Um well once you start feeling good about yourself, maybe you could um people might start doing things differently.
• 24:28
  Helen Dugdale: And and this is where the thriving comes in, they start gradually improving their life around them.
• 24:35
  Helen Dugdale: Um I've got lots of stories where it and it's not just about money, but it's about how good you feel within yourself.
• 24:44
  Helen Dugdale: But the more positive you are, things seem to happen to you or for you when you emit this positive um persona, maybe, that um that you're not sort of this grumpy, morose person that just grunts at people.
• 25:04
  Helen Dugdale: Um that uh even though you might have some sad things happen to you, there are still some good things in your life.
• 25:12
  Helen Dugdale: Um I I had um I've uh can I tell you some stories, some case studies?
• 25:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh, I was gonna say, I was gonna say, please, as much as you want to share.
• 25:22
  Helen Dugdale: Um I had a a young man um who was um being bullied at work, and it was really upsetting.
• 25:32
  Helen Dugdale: I mean, he couldn't see a way out.
• 25:33
  Helen Dugdale: He he felt he had to stay there to earn an income, and he wasn't doing his studies, and his studies would have got him a qualification that would have got him out of that situation, but he he wasn't, he didn't have the motivation to finish his studies and and he was just being picked on, and he was uh very anxious and very upset about everything, right?
• 25:57
  Helen Dugdale: As you could imagine.
• 25:58
  Helen Dugdale: Um so uh his mum sent him along to see me.
• 26:02
  Helen Dugdale: And um anyway, we worked out what was holding him back and and then he he I I went, took him through the the method of uh um thinking of the things that he's good at, what are what are his good points, because he was a lovely young man, um, but he just thought he was about an inch big, you know, because he kept being put down all the time.
• 26:29
  Helen Dugdale: So he worked out, he gave me a list, he worked out a list of things he wanted to achieve in the near future that would make him feel good, that he actually could get something done, because he kept putting things off all the time.
• 26:44
  Helen Dugdale: Uh so he did that.
• 26:46
  Helen Dugdale: And then I think even the next day or the next few days, he rang me and he said, Helen, I've done half the things on the list already.
• 26:55
  Helen Dugdale: He said, I feel so good.
• 26:57
  Helen Dugdale: So that was great.
• 26:59
  Helen Dugdale: And then a few weeks later, he said to me, Alan, guess what happened?
• 27:05
  Helen Dugdale: I said, What?
• 27:06
  Helen Dugdale: He said, I quit my job.
• 27:08
  Helen Dugdale: I don't have to put up with those awful people anymore.
• 27:11
  Helen Dugdale: And then because he was studying, he applied for another job.
• 27:15
  Helen Dugdale: And because they knew he was studying, they gave him this job that was a bit higher up that his studies would complement.
• 27:23
  Helen Dugdale: And much, much nicer people, he had more autonomy, he was so happy.
• 27:30
  Helen Dugdale: He said, I didn't know life could feel this good.
• 27:33
  Helen Dugdale: And so he was thriving, he was starting to stand up for himself in a nice way, and then a few years later I caught up with him again, he started his own business, and he's got clients coming out all over the place.
• 27:50
  Helen Dugdale: Very, very happy and thriving.
• 27:54
  Helen Dugdale: Just yeah, was it was a good story.
• 27:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I I'm so happy you gl you shared that because that that was me and a uh a few years back in in that where it it seemed like couldn't do anything right at work, or like how am I gonna continue on?
• 28:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh you know, whether it's you know being bullied or just not being like like a simple thank you really goes a far a long way.
• 28:28
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It doesn't have to always be about the money, and when you're working through things, it's like, oh my gosh, from the time I leave work until the next day, it's like I'm just dreading it.
• 28:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And like then you know uh eating and nutrition gets you know uprooted and uh and and then obviously leading to poor sleep because it's like oh my gosh, once I go to sleep and wake up, I'm gonna have to go back to that same place that's treating me, or what I feel is treated me in a negative fashion.
• 29:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Is there another uh story that you could share?
• 29:09
  Helen Dugdale: Uh uh I've got a sporting story, uh an aspect of story.
• 29:14
  Helen Dugdale: Um I've got a few actually.
• 29:18
  Helen Dugdale: Um a young man was uh a weightlifter, and he said he's putting in all the training, but he's not he's not going that extra mile.
• 29:28
  Helen Dugdale: He's he's not improving each time he goes to training.
• 29:32
  Helen Dugdale: And he had the national championships coming up in a few months' time.
• 29:36
  Helen Dugdale: And he said, but he's not improving, he's not even doing a PB.
• 29:40
  Helen Dugdale: So he'd lost his mojo, right?
• 29:43
  Helen Dugdale: Um, so we we worked out what was holding him back, and and and so he wasn't feeling good about himself because he was putting in the hours but not getting anywhere, right?
• 29:54
  Helen Dugdale: So he wasn't feeling good.
• 29:56
  Helen Dugdale: So we worked out what was holding him back, and um he gradually started improving the the amount of weights he he could lift, and um and I kept saying to him, just do what your weight coach says, right?
• 30:12
  Helen Dugdale: Because I don't I didn't want him to go and burst his insides, you know, by doing too much.
• 30:17
  Helen Dugdale: So I said just follow what your weight coach is saying, but you've got to put the effort in.
• 30:22
  Helen Dugdale: You've got to believe in yourself.
• 30:24
  Helen Dugdale: So we we did all that sort of thing, and then the the championships were coming up, and um, I was like his mother.
• 30:33
  Helen Dugdale: I thought, oh, how's he gonna go?
• 30:36
  Helen Dugdale: You know, you know, will he make it?
• 30:38
  Helen Dugdale: You know, and um I just didn't want him to hurt himself.
• 30:41
  Helen Dugdale: That was the main thing, but I also wanted to him to get the best out of himself, and he he rang me that night and he said he broke three world records and five national records for his age group.
• 30:59
  Helen Dugdale: Just over the moon.
• 31:02
  Helen Dugdale: Just and and and he wrote me uh um, he was only young, lovely, lovely young man.
• 31:09
  Helen Dugdale: He and um and he said he wrote a a testimonial and he said as if he was writing to um the the public, do you want to be good or do you want to be great?
• 31:22
  Helen Dugdale: And he said, You need brain coaching to get to great because he he got the the motivation, he got his mojo back, and so he wasn't beating himself up anymore.
• 31:35
  Helen Dugdale: That was and that was pretty good.
• 31:40
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, that's that's awesome.
• 31:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, I mean in getting that feedback, then obviously it it helps you and it validates you know what the work that you're you're doing, and that uh and getting that kind of that positive emotional feedback is is huge no matter what what kind of job uh we're in.
• 32:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so for whether it's the the weight lifting or it's uh the the individual at work or the the uh 94-year-old or others, yeah.
• 32:12
  Helen Dugdale: And getting back to how anxiety can affect your lifestyle, like other than grabbing um the wrong drink or too much chocolate or too much alcohol just because you're tired or anxious, um, it can play havoc with your with your digestive system.
• 32:30
  Helen Dugdale: You've heard of the gut-brain connection.
• 32:34
  Helen Dugdale: You know, a lot of anxious people they could get diarrhea or they could get constipated, their stomach gets all knotted, or their stomach gets all churning up because of anxiety.
• 32:45
  Helen Dugdale: There is a real definite connection between the gut and the brain.
• 32:49
  Helen Dugdale: Um, and there's been a lot of research done on that.
• 32:52
  Helen Dugdale: So if you can use some tips and some strategies to reduce your anxiety, your digestive system improves.
• 33:01
  Helen Dugdale: And I had a few people that would wake up every morning with a clenched stomach because they're so churned up over some issues that they would have diarrhea.
• 33:14
  Helen Dugdale: And it was just and it affected their getting to work because of all these stomach issues.
• 33:22
  Helen Dugdale: So we worked out um what the cause of the anxiety was, and developed some strategies to reduce their anxiety.
• 33:31
  Helen Dugdale: They don't have a clenched stomach when they wake up in the morning.
• 33:34
  Helen Dugdale: They used to dread the mornings because of how their insides felt.
• 33:41
  Helen Dugdale: So they they was very relieved in more ways than one.
• 33:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: For sure.
• 33:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I remember uh a few years back, so my lowest mental health part uh was kind of my worst day, but the best uh because I was letting go of the control and getting the help that I I I needed.
• 34:08
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So really I just passed through eight eight years uh in uh this past November of uh being sober, number one, and and and just trying to use uh the second half of my life for helping and instead of everything's gotta be about me, which looking back, there was a lot of things I was chasing different titles at work and going out, and I was doing things that I assumed were what I should be doing, but like nobody told me that.
• 34:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It was just, oh well, I'm at uh university, so I'm gonna go out and drink and do all that party, and then that kind of carried over when university was done.
• 34:55
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, and and then I was having these uh different things along the way that I was just burying in my brain, and I didn't talk to anybody about that.
• 35:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And once I started to do that, I started to improve very, very much.
• 35:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh by getting to the sleep part, there were many years that would go by where I was terrified to go to bed.
• 35:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, there were times when uh I it different individuals I would uh connect with, uh they would mention like trying to meditate and just trying to slow down uh my breathing and and uh I mean doing all those types of things.
• 35:43
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And every time I did that, it I saw like a shark.
• 35:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like it says, like, you know, go to your happy place, go to like where you're you know, and and for me it's usually the the the ocean and the sand, and and the one thing I was was was always going back to was going to like a pier, and I was going and I was sitting down and my feet were just dangling and I was just listening to the waves, and and then all of a sudden the shark would come out of nowhere, and that shark now is nowhere to be seen for me.
• 36:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, but it's it's one of those things that I have no doubt that lowering the anxiety and and other other things was a huge thing.
• 36:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I'm sure there's a lot of viewers and listeners that have, like you said, you know, that clenched stomach and just dreading and having that effect if they're traveling too, of uh you know, maybe missing a flight or a train and uh missing uh getting to work late.
• 36:53
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:54
  Helen Dugdale: Um, but I I want to give people um a really easy example of how you can it is possible to change.
• 37:03
  Helen Dugdale: And it's as I was saying, it's neuroplasticity, rewiring your brain.
• 37:08
  Helen Dugdale: Like um, an easy example to understand is if you're right-handed and you've hurt your right hand and you have to use your left, it's awkward to start with, isn't it?
• 37:20
  Helen Dugdale: You know, it's very awkward to hold the pen or or hold the computer mouse or whatever.
• 37:26
  Helen Dugdale: And the more you do it, the easier it gets.
• 37:29
  Helen Dugdale: And that's because your brain is sending, is rewiring and sending messages down to your left hand saying, hold the pen this way, hold the cup this way, hold the mouse that way.
• 37:40
  Helen Dugdale: So that's your brain rewiring to your left hand from your right hand, right?
• 37:46
  Helen Dugdale: That's an easy way of explaining neuroplasticity.
• 37:49
  Helen Dugdale: So another example is you've heard people who keep saying, oh, I'm bad at maths, I'm no good at maths, I'm you know, I'm terrible at maths, I'm always bad.
• 38:00
  Helen Dugdale: Well, guess what?
• 38:02
  Helen Dugdale: They will be bad at maths because that's what they're telling themselves.
• 38:05
  Helen Dugdale: What if you told yourself something good?
• 38:08
  Helen Dugdale: That I am good at this, I am capable, I can do it.
• 38:14
  Helen Dugdale: Keep saying it, repeat, repeat, repeat.
• 38:17
  Helen Dugdale: Like when in your recovery, I bet you repeated all those positive habits.
• 38:23
  Helen Dugdale: And the more you repeat something, the more likely it's going to connect in your brain.
• 38:29
  Helen Dugdale: It's like Aristotle said it 2,000 years ago, that Greek philosopher, that you are what you repeatedly do.
• 38:38
  Helen Dugdale: So it's not something we've just invented in this new age.
• 38:42
  Helen Dugdale: We and if you think about it, you are what you repeatedly do.
• 38:47
  Helen Dugdale: So if you keep saying, I am a good person, I am capable, I am calm, or whatever it is that that rings a bell for you, that's how you're going to be.
• 38:57
  Helen Dugdale: But you have to repeat it.
• 38:59
  Helen Dugdale: Um, I've got a um a story that even though it's about horse riding, it you can apply it to any part of your life.
• 39:09
  Helen Dugdale: I I had a client who was a Rodeo rider, and um she bred her own horses, she trained her own horses, ridden horses her whole life, and she said, I keep coming second and third, and I know I'm just as good as the people who come first.
• 39:27
  Helen Dugdale: Why, what's holding me back?
• 39:30
  Helen Dugdale: Why can't I win?
• 39:31
  Helen Dugdale: And she's put in all the work, she knows her horses, the horses know her, everything like that.
• 39:37
  Helen Dugdale: And I said, Okay, well, talk me through it because I don't know anything about horses or roading.
• 39:42
  Helen Dugdale: And she said, Well, I'm sitting on the horse, waiting for the gates to open, you know, to go out into the arena.
• 39:50
  Helen Dugdale: And she said, she tells herself, don't mess it up, don't mess it up, don't mess it up.
• 39:56
  Helen Dugdale: And guess what happens?
• 39:58
  Helen Dugdale: So we uh worked out what was holding her back, came up with some new strategies, and I said, What do you want to tell yourself?
• 40:08
  Helen Dugdale: Instead of don't mess it up, what do you want to tell yourself?
• 40:11
  Helen Dugdale: Like, and I got her to go through all her good points, and her good points were she's a good horse rider, she knows her horses, she knows what she's doing, all that sort of stuff, all her good points.
• 40:23
  Helen Dugdale: And she said, Okay, I want to be able to say I've got this.
• 40:28
  Helen Dugdale: I've got this, I've got this.
• 40:31
  Helen Dugdale: So she's sitting on the horse, the gate's about to open, and this is a couple of weeks later, and she rang me again and said, Guess what?
• 40:43
  Helen Dugdale: She's a national champion.
• 40:46
  Helen Dugdale: And I said, Tell me what happened, what was it?
• 40:51
  Helen Dugdale: And she said, I found myself, I started to say, don't mess it up, but then she stopped herself and said, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this.
• 41:00
  Helen Dugdale: And her horse responded, everything went perfectly.
• 41:03
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Helen Dugdale: So that so even though that's about horses, you can say anyone can say this to themselves.
• 41:11
  Helen Dugdale: If you find yourself telling yourself negative stuff, just and realize, oh, what am I what am I saying to myself?
• 41:20
  Helen Dugdale: Just stop and think to yourself, what's really going on here?
• 41:25
  Helen Dugdale: Do I want to be like that or do I want to be like this?
• 41:28
  Helen Dugdale: And come up with your own saying, your own mantra.
• 41:33
  Helen Dugdale: What do you want to repeat all the time?
• 41:35
  Helen Dugdale: How do you want to feel from now on?
• 41:38
  Helen Dugdale: And then repeat it.
• 41:40
  Helen Dugdale: Like someone who beats themselves up.
• 41:44
  Helen Dugdale: Maybe they could start saying, I am a good person.
• 41:48
  Helen Dugdale: I am a good person.
• 41:49
  Helen Dugdale: I am a good person.
• 41:51
  Helen Dugdale: Like they're not a bad person 24 hours a day, are they?
• 41:54
  Helen Dugdale: You're a good person more times than they are a bad person.
• 41:59
  Helen Dugdale: Keep reminding yourself you are a good person.
• 42:03
  Helen Dugdale: And then you start feeling better about yourself.
• 42:08
  Helen Dugdale: Your breathing slows down, you're you're more relaxed instead of getting uptight all the time.
• 42:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yes.
• 42:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, I'll no, yeah, those stories, yeah, it doesn't matter where you're at.
• 42:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It could be uh a student getting ready for an exam or a test and saying, Oh, I'm not gonna do very well, and and then they don't, and rewiring that burning that neuroplasticity that you're you're you're mentioning, is uh it it it it does, and and I think it probably surprises a a lot of your your clients that not that it's easy, but it's like oh my gosh, like this is what I needed to do, and I didn't need to go, you know, cure a disease or do something that's so grand, getting you know, getting back to that, you know, being grateful for and that gratitude of I'm grateful to have shoes and little things and yeah.
• 43:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So so your your uh your book uh that is out, where where can uh can you show that again?
• 43:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, okay.
• 43:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay.
• 43:20
  Helen Dugdale: Or or through my website, but it's more expensive for me to post it from Australia.
• 43:25
  Helen Dugdale: It's Amazon's cheaper.
• 43:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay, Amazon is cheaper, great.
• 43:30
  Helen Dugdale: But I run um um individual consultations on Zoom and I also do group workshops.
• 43:39
  Helen Dugdale: I did a I did a group workshop on Zoom and someone fell asleep.
• 43:45
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Because Right, because they were feeling bad, yeah.
• 43:49
  Helen Dugdale: Um I went through a few exercises to to give them examples.
• 43:54
  Helen Dugdale: This is what you can do at home.
• 43:56
  Helen Dugdale: And he fell asleep in about 15 seconds.
• 43:59
  Helen Dugdale: But when I thought about it, I thought, the poor thing, imagine how tired he must have been.
• 44:06
  Helen Dugdale: Like he came to the workshop because of sleep problems, and then during the workshop, I'm giving them some tips on how to sleep better.
• 44:15
  Helen Dugdale: So he must have been really tired.
• 44:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I like that example though, but it because it it it it it goes to the the the sleeping and and all the other areas that you mentioned that that might have been the first time in a long time that he felt that calm or and that he's right.
• 44:37
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That his body wasn't clenched up.
• 44:40
  Helen Dugdale: Yeah.
• 44:40
  Helen Dugdale: Um, I've also put out a journal, a 90-day journal, goal setting journal, and the first few pages are all about what we were talking about.
• 44:50
  Helen Dugdale: What are you grateful for?
• 44:52
  Helen Dugdale: Um, what's going to motivate you?
• 44:54
  Helen Dugdale: Because a lot of people they set goals and then they don't follow through.
• 44:58
  Helen Dugdale: So why aren't you following through?
• 45:00
  Helen Dugdale: And so there's some really good tips in here on motivating yourself to follow through and feel good about yourself.
• 45:09
  Helen Dugdale: I did that.
• 45:10
  Helen Dugdale: I did that.
• 45:11
  Helen Dugdale: So I run workshops on that, and that's um uh one one guy in the workshop said, Well, there goes my excuse to do nothing.
• 45:21
  Helen Dugdale: Oh because I gave him all these motivation tips.
• 45:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But he probably is probably helping him so much, it's like, wow, like there's so much of my the the neuroplasticity that it was available for him to do more things and uh anybody to do more things when you rewire and take some of the at least a little bit of the negative negativity or what's bothering you and uh what do you find that is the most uh as far as the process that that you teach?
• 46:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Do you find that it's not until somebody is thriving that they recognize uh the change, or is it for everybody's different across the board?
• 46:14
  Helen Dugdale: Um usually they realize early on, we get them onto a new path and they feel a weight lifted.
• 46:23
  unknown: Okay.
• 46:23
  Helen Dugdale: Um as they're starting on this new path.
• 46:26
  Helen Dugdale: And as you feel better and better about yourself, then that's when the thriving comes in.
• 46:32
  Helen Dugdale: You're more motivated to keep going because you're feeling good about yourself.
• 46:36
  Helen Dugdale: You're seeing some achievements towards where you want to be.
• 46:40
  Helen Dugdale: So it's it's really um like a weight is lifted right at the start to free you up to thrive.
• 46:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay, right.
• 46:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That makes complete sense.
• 46:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're getting close to the end of our time together.
• 46:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh did we miss anything?
• 47:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Or something you want to reiterate, just uh wrap it up for for you?
• 47:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh or uh that you can do that.
• 47:09
  Helen Dugdale: Well, I want to leave people with something positive, and that is like deep breathing is free.
• 47:15
  Helen Dugdale: We've all heard how good deep breathing is.
• 47:18
  Helen Dugdale: How many of us actually do it?
• 47:21
  Helen Dugdale: We all go about just doing shallow breathing just to get right when we stop and take a deep breath.
• 47:28
  Helen Dugdale: We're putting oxygen into our bloodstream and it's immediately calming you down.
• 47:34
  Helen Dugdale: Just re and then blow out all that stress.
• 47:37
  Helen Dugdale: So take a deep breath, hold it, blow it all out, and just do it a few times, and you will feel better about yourself.
• 47:45
  Helen Dugdale: And and this really helps people who want to get back to sleep, calm themselves down, take a few deep breaths, or if you're in an anxious situation, instead of going into your automatic negative response, whatever that is, just take a minute to do it, take a deep breath and just think to yourself, what is really going on here?
• 48:09
  Helen Dugdale: Do I want to go down my old path or do I want to be like this, my new path?
• 48:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I I love it.
• 48:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh Helen Dougdale, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
• 48:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh on uh it I feel like I'm it I I love uh love learning more, and even just that repetition of uh like okay, if you work on positives, that your better opportunities to have positives occur, and the same goes for negatives doesn't mean everything's gonna turn out in the positive, but if you can just make a little bit of a shift, uh that is that is so awesome.
• 48:55
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That the work you do, the inspiration of getting uh going back to school when you did, and still having the energy, the vibrancy to help individuals, to help groups, uh, to have uh work that people can uh go on Amazon and and purchase.
• 49:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That is uh just just awesome.
• 49:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm so I'm so grateful that you you reached out to me and that we were able to make this work because and I'm uh don't say it lightly, uh somebody with your background is is something we've been we've been missing.
• 49:35
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We have we we tackle a lot of different topics as you as you mentioned, and it's great to get back kind of to a little bit of the I don't say the basics, because it's not basic.
• 49:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um and it's just so rewarding that the stories that you shared of individuals all across the spectrum from uh a younger individual with the the listing to the 94-year-old.
• 50:07
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And it really there's no person, there's no too early or too late to get get started.
• 50:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So thank you for being on the show and thank you for doing what you are are doing.
• 50:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I just want to mention my mom's name is Helen, so uh she's gonna love this uh this particular episode, especially.
• 50:32
  Helen Dugdale: Um, so well, thank you, Justin.
• 50:35
  Helen Dugdale: It's been a pleasure, and I hope um there's been a few tips amongst all that that um your listeners can benefit from.
• 50:42
  Helen Dugdale: Um I'm happy to answer emails or go on Zoom if anyone's got any questions.
• 50:48
  Helen Dugdale: I'm happy to do that.
• 50:50
  Helen Dugdale: Take.
• 50:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay, great.
• 50:53
  Helen Dugdale: I'm grateful for you being available and grateful for your podcast and um spreading the message out to people.
• 51:01
  Helen Dugdale: Good on you.
• 51:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh, thank you.
• 51:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That's what we're we're trying to do.
• 51:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And when you find somebody like yourself, and it's a great match, that's why it's like, yeah, like let's let's get this done.
• 51:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Let's let's get together, let's get this filmed, and let's get this out.
• 51:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So it will be coming out in the next couple days, obviously, because of the time uh change and in that.
• 51:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So it will be definitely before the weekend, your time.
• 51:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I will send you all the links.
• 51:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I will um I'll tag you and and all of that when we do the uh kind of the the promo announcement.
• 51:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh again, you you can share, you can uh do uh what whatever and and have individuals watch that and and and learn that way too.
• 51:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh and thank you for putting yourself out there and uh sharing the stories.
• 51:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I I love them, but I'm a like a visual type of learner, so I follow those stories and and and it makes uh a lot uh lot better sense to to me, whereas other people might find the words and the definitions and that a little easier to comprehend.
• 52:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But I'm definitely a visual.
• 52:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So thank you for covering both of those.
• 52:18
  Helen Dugdale: Thank you.
• 52:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely.
• 52:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And we want to thank you, our viewers, our listeners, episode 383.
• 52:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You just saw or listened to our interview uh from many thousands of miles away in Australia and the Sydney, Australia time zone.
• 52:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Helen Dugdale, uh the the brain coach, uh talks about uh everything from sleep to uh thriving and everything in between.
• 52:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh please go check out her books on Amazon.
• 52:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh can you just rename can you just say the name of again?
• 53:01
  Helen Dugdale: Put insomnia to sleep.
• 53:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Put insomnia to sleep, and I love that.
• 53:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm a visual person, and that's that's probably one of the best uh titles I've heard in a long, long time.
• 53:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And also Helen does have the 90-day journal as well.
• 53:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So uh take a look out for that both of those.
• 53:20
  Helen Dugdale: And uh 90-day journals, not on Amazon.
• 53:24
  Helen Dugdale: Um but I can do the workshops um coaching people through goal setting and motivating.
• 53:32
  unknown: Yep.
• 53:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay, perfect.
• 53:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, and anybody that uh has uh themselves or a group that would like to uh work with Helen, uh definitely please reach reach out to her either directly or reach out to us, and we will get you in contact with her.
• 53:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so for our our listeners, our viewers from a hundred countries across the world, a thousand cities, and for Helen Dugdale, thank you all for joining us on this episode number 383 of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 54:09
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So, until next time, please be a voice for you or somebody in need.
• 54:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We'll see you next time, everybody.