Latest / Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge / Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Caleb Flynn (Pt. 1)

Transcript

Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Caleb Flynn (Pt. 1) · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi guys, welcome to Till Death Do Us Part. I'll
0:04
Speaker 1: be your host today, Emily Simpson and Shane. Okay, today
0:08
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the case of Caleb Flynn.
0:11
Speaker 1: He is currently on trial for the alleged murder of
0:15
Speaker 1: his wife. I don't know if you remember this, but
0:17
Speaker 1: when this news first broke, we talked about it on
0:20
Speaker 1: an episode. We didn't do a full episode. We just
0:22
Speaker 1: talked about it. His name's Caleb Flynn. It's an Ohio case.
0:26
Speaker 1: And it took place in Tip City, which is very
0:28
Speaker 1: near Dayton. And that's just the area kind of where
0:32
Speaker 1: I grew up. So my sister, who's still in Ohio.
0:35
Speaker 1: sent me the first, you know, breaking news of it
0:39
Speaker 1: and sent the article to me. This was, I believe,
0:41
Speaker 1: back in February. And he originally said that it was
0:45
Speaker 1: an intruder. And I remember when she sent the article,
0:47
Speaker 1: the article said, you know, the wife was shot, it
0:49
Speaker 1: was an intruder, or he claims it was an intruder.
0:51
Speaker 1: And I remember replying going, I doubt it was an intruder.
0:54
Speaker 1: It was most likely the husband. Why would you say
0:57
Speaker 1: that based on a headline? Because it's always the husband. No,
1:00
Speaker 1: it's not. Sometimes it's the wife. I don't know. It
1:03
Speaker 1: just seemed fishy to me that the wife got shot
1:06
Speaker 1: in the back of the head. He was fine. The
1:08
Speaker 1: girls at home are fine. It's just the wife that
1:10
Speaker 1: got shot. An intruder came in and just shot the
1:12
Speaker 1: wife when she was sleeping. Anyway, Caleb Flynn is now
1:16
Speaker 1: on trial for his wife's murder. So we are going
1:19
Speaker 1: to talk about it and we are going to follow it. Obviously,
1:22
Speaker 1: he is currently on trial. So we are just doing
1:25
Speaker 1: as much as we can up until currently, but we
1:27
Speaker 1: will obviously continue to follow it. So just after 2.30am
1:31
Speaker 1: on February 16th of 2026, police were called to a
1:35
Speaker 1: Tip City, Ohio home on a report of a burglary.
1:39
Speaker 1: Inside the home, Ashley Flynn, a 37-year-old teacher, volleyball coach,
1:44
Speaker 1: and mother of two, had been shot twice and was
1:47
Speaker 1: pronounced dead at the scene. Twice in the head? Twice
1:51
Speaker 1: in the head. That's an execution. That's an execution. Her husband, Caleb,
1:56
Speaker 1: a former worship pastor who had once appeared on season...
1:59
Speaker 1: Another pastor. Another pastor... He had once appeared on season
2:03
Speaker 1: 12 of American Idol. I believe he got the golden buzzer.
2:06
Speaker 1: What was he doing on American Idol? He was a singer.
2:08
Speaker 1: He was a singing pastor. Who gave him the golden buzzer?
2:11
Speaker 1: I don't know, but we should find out. He made
2:15
Speaker 1: a frantic 911 call. He said an intruder had broken
2:20
Speaker 1: in and shot his wife and that he had been
2:22
Speaker 1: in his daughter's bedroom when it happened. Police found signs
2:26
Speaker 1: of a forced entry. Oh, he's saying he was home?
2:28
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. When it happened? Yes. And some
2:31
Speaker 1: intruder came and just killed her and then left? That's
2:34
Speaker 1: why I said to you, when I first saw the article,
2:36
Speaker 1: I said that man shot his wife in the back
2:38
Speaker 1: of the head. Twice. Twice. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly. When the
2:43
Speaker 1: police came, they found signs of a forced entry. But
2:46
Speaker 1: three days later, Caleb was the one in handcuffs. All right,
2:50
Speaker 1: let's go through this. Let's do a little background on Caleb.
2:53
Speaker 1: So Caleb Flynn was a former worship pastor who appeared
2:56
Speaker 1: on season 12 of American Idol in 2013. I actually
3:00
Speaker 1: wanted to do this, but I haven't done it yet.
3:02
Speaker 1: I wanted to go on YouTube and find his American
3:06
Speaker 1: Idol appearance. What do you think I'm doing right now? Oh,
3:08
Speaker 1: is that what you're doing? During an interview for the show,
3:11
Speaker 1: he discussed his love of music and credited his wife, Ashley,
3:15
Speaker 1: with encouraging him to audition. He did not reach the
3:19
Speaker 1: live rounds. Caleb and Ashley lived in Tip City with
3:23
Speaker 1: their two daughters. Ashley worked as a substitute teacher and
3:26
Speaker 1: middle school volleyball coach. Following her death, her school community
3:30
Speaker 1: remembered her warmth, kindness, and positive influence on the students.
3:35
Speaker 1: All right, so that's a little background on Caleb and Ashley.
3:39
Speaker 1: So it's always the pastor. What is up with pastors?
3:42
Speaker 1: It's not always the pastor. It's the pastor. What is
3:45
Speaker 1: up with that? Sometimes it's the crazy wife. These religious
3:48
Speaker 1: men that... go up and stand in front of congregations
3:53
Speaker 1: and talk about morality and ethics and then commit murder.
3:57
Speaker 1: There was the other pastor. Remember the angels landing. He
4:00
Speaker 1: was a pastor too. Remember he's the one that pushed
4:02
Speaker 1: his wife off the cliff. What about death of a
4:05
Speaker 1: pastor's wife?
4:06
Speaker 2: Yes.
4:07
Speaker 1: That was a pastor. That was JP Miller. All right,
4:10
Speaker 1: now we get to February 16th of 2026. So Caleb
4:14
Speaker 1: calls 911 in the middle of the night and reports
4:16
Speaker 1: that an intruder had broken into the family's home and
4:19
Speaker 1: shot Ashley twice in the back of the head while
4:21
Speaker 1: she was sleeping. And where was he? He claims that
4:25
Speaker 1: he was in his daughter. He has two daughters. He
4:27
Speaker 1: claims he was in their bedroom. That's very convenient, right?
4:30
Speaker 1: He's a very lucky man. Yes. He just happened to
4:32
Speaker 1: not be in the bed at the time. Officers respond
4:36
Speaker 1: to the reported burglary and shooting and Ashley is found
4:39
Speaker 1: dead in her bed with no evidence of a struggle.
4:43
Speaker 1: Caleb and the couple's two daughters are also inside when
4:46
Speaker 1: police arrive and police began investigating the circumstances surrounding the shooting.
4:51
Speaker 2: See, this is a problem because he failed to create
4:56
Speaker 2: some type of motive. Just a random intruder came in
4:59
Speaker 2: and shot.
5:00
Speaker 1: That's what he says. Yeah, I know, but he failed
5:03
Speaker 1: to create a story. So I do know, so he
5:06
Speaker 1: calls 911 and they did play the 911 recording in court.
5:10
Speaker 1: So I believe like right in the beginning of his trial.
5:13
Speaker 1: And he acts all emotional when they're playing the 911 recording.
5:16
Speaker 1: And also they have, I've saw- Acts emotional? Well, I mean, he's-
5:21
Speaker 1: I know, that's how you said it. You said he acted.
5:23
Speaker 1: He acts emotional. Also, I saw police body cam footage of,
5:28
Speaker 1: he calls his mother-in-law, Ashley's mom, and tells her, That
5:32
Speaker 1: Ashley's been shot and she drives to their house and
5:35
Speaker 1: it shows and there's body cam footage of him going
5:37
Speaker 1: up to his mother-in-law and hugging her when she, you know,
5:40
Speaker 1: arrives at the home. Seems pretty legitimate. Crying and throwing up.
5:46
Speaker 1: So they do know that she was shot with a
5:48
Speaker 1: nine millimeter handgun. Yeah. They find the casings and he
5:52
Speaker 1: owns a nine millimeter gun and he keeps it in
5:55
Speaker 1: the console of his truck. So then police are searching
5:59
Speaker 1: the house. They find that the console of his truck
6:01
Speaker 1: is open, but there's no gun in it. The gun
6:05
Speaker 1: is gone. Oh, wow. And the murder weapon is never found. Well,
6:09
Speaker 1: what's his story with where his gun is? He claims,
6:12
Speaker 1: I believe, that the intruder must have taken it from
6:15
Speaker 1: the console of his truck and used his gun.
6:20
Speaker 2: So this burglar uses the weapons of the victim.
6:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, of him. But the burglar would have to know
6:27
Speaker 1: that he keeps a 9mm in the console of his truck. Anyway,
6:32
Speaker 1: this is interesting to me, though. The murder weapon was
6:34
Speaker 1: never found. So what could he have possibly done with it?
6:40
Speaker 1: So that they cannot find it and they do not
6:43
Speaker 1: recover it.
6:43
Speaker 2: Oh, it could be one of a million things. Yeah.
6:46
Speaker 2: He could have just dropped it off in the lake,
6:48
Speaker 2: could have tossed it in a dumpster.
6:50
Speaker 1: I mean, anything. He just got lucky and they didn't
6:52
Speaker 1: find it. Yeah, but wouldn't forensics on his phone show
6:57
Speaker 1: like his path? Like after he, if he left the house,
7:02
Speaker 1: would it have shown that? Can you see that on
7:04
Speaker 1: a phone? I don't know. He could have hid it well.
7:09
Speaker 1: And then got rid of it. And then later dumped it, yeah. Yeah,
7:11
Speaker 1: that's true. If he hit it really well that night
7:14
Speaker 1: and then got rid of it later. They searched the house.
7:16
Speaker 1: I don't know.
7:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:18
Speaker 1: Right. But come on.
7:21
Speaker 2: The armrest or whatever was open and his gun was missing.
7:28
Speaker 1: It's one thing if his gun was just missing. Okay.
7:31
Speaker 2: I mean, this will be suspicious, but you'd be like, okay,
7:33
Speaker 2: that can happen. It can be a coincidence, but it
7:36
Speaker 2: could also happen. But the armrest is open or whatever.
7:39
Speaker 1: The console is open. The console is open, yeah. And
7:41
Speaker 1: it's gone. And he says he normally keeps it there. Yeah.
7:44
Speaker 2: And his version of events is someone must have taken
7:46
Speaker 2: it and used it to kill his wife.
7:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. And he also claims they came in through like
7:50
Speaker 1: a side door in the garage. They talk about how
7:53
Speaker 1: they examined. It looks like it had had a forced entry.
7:58
Speaker 1: you know, like someone had tried to get through the door,
8:02
Speaker 1: but it didn't, I think it was like the, the
8:04
Speaker 1: scrapings or whatever they found on the door were inconsistent
8:06
Speaker 1: with an actual force entry. It looked more like someone
8:08
Speaker 1: was just trying to like, you know, make marks on
8:11
Speaker 1: it to make it look like that. February 19th of 2026,
8:22
Speaker 1: just three days after Ashley's murder, the tip city police
8:25
Speaker 1: arrest Caleb in connection with Ashley's death. Authorities allege that
8:29
Speaker 1: he shot Ashley and altered the crime scene to mislead
8:32
Speaker 1: investigators into believing that an intruder was responsible. These are
8:37
Speaker 1: criminal allegations, not findings of guilt. Just to let you know.
8:41
Speaker 1: So we're just, this is alleged at this point. February
8:45
Speaker 1: 20th of 2026, Caleb appears in court and pleads not
8:48
Speaker 1: guilty to the initial charges. A judge sets his bond
8:52
Speaker 1: at 2 million. His defense subsequently questions. I love that.
8:55
Speaker 1: I love that when it's like, He pleads not guilty.
9:00
Speaker 1: And it's just like, yeah, right. Two million bucks. You're
9:03
Speaker 1: not going anywhere, bud. His defense subsequently questions the speed
9:08
Speaker 1: of the investigation while police defend their investigative process. We
9:13
Speaker 1: get to March 18th of 2026. Caleb Flynn is indicted
9:16
Speaker 1: on 11 charges total, including one count of aggravated murder,
9:20
Speaker 1: three counts of murder, two counts of felonious assault, three
9:24
Speaker 1: counts of tampering with evidence. I did three counts of
9:26
Speaker 1: murder in one body. I don't know. Why three counts
9:29
Speaker 1: of murder? I don't know. Three counts of tampering with
9:32
Speaker 1: evidence and two misdemeanor counts of intimidation of an attorney, victim,
9:37
Speaker 1: or witness in a criminal case. I don't know what
9:40
Speaker 1: that is, but I think that will probably come out
9:42
Speaker 1: in trial later because I don't know the details on
9:44
Speaker 1: the intimidation of an attorney. But that will be interesting because... Yeah,
9:47
Speaker 1: who's the attorney? His own? I don't know. On March
9:51
Speaker 1: 19th of 2026, Caleb appears for arraignment following his indictment.
9:55
Speaker 1: His attorney enters a not guilty plea and the court
9:59
Speaker 1: raises his... bond to three and a half million. They're like,
10:02
Speaker 1: you're really not going anywhere. All right, we get to
10:06
Speaker 1: May of 2026 and the court reschedules Caleb's trial for
10:10
Speaker 1: September 17th. His trial had originally been scheduled to begin
10:14
Speaker 1: in May. We do know his trial just began on
10:16
Speaker 1: September 17th of 2026. Jury selection begins in Miami County.
10:22
Speaker 1: Attorneys question prospective jurors before a jury is seated. And
10:26
Speaker 1: then opening statements are scheduled for the following morning, which
10:29
Speaker 1: is September 18th. I actually watched the opening statements because
10:34
Speaker 1: it was interesting. I wanted to see what they both
10:37
Speaker 1: had to say. Yeah, what they had to say. So
10:39
Speaker 1: prosecutors and defense attorneys deliver their opening statements. According to
10:43
Speaker 1: the Miami County prosecutor, Paul Watkins, Caleb Flynn carried on
10:47
Speaker 1: a years-long affair. So this was interesting because people were
10:51
Speaker 1: speculating whether he was having an affair or not. It
10:54
Speaker 1: was confirmed immediately in the prosecutor's opening statement. He talks
10:58
Speaker 1: about how he's having like a year's long affair and
11:01
Speaker 1: that there are roughly 100,000 text messages between him and
11:06
Speaker 1: his mistress, including the prosecutor reads them. And I thought
11:13
Speaker 1: this was probably a hundred thousand. Well, he doesn't read
11:16
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand. No, I know, but that's insane. Yeah.
11:18
Speaker 1: So there's over a hundred thousand messages between him and
11:21
Speaker 1: his mistress, but then the prosecutor reads, um, the good ones,
11:26
Speaker 1: the good ones and his opening statement, which I thought
11:28
Speaker 1: was probably a pretty smart thing to do because you
11:30
Speaker 1: immediately established that this guy is a POS, like right
11:34
Speaker 1: from the get go. What does the text message say?
11:36
Speaker 1: So he exchanges texts with his mistress, allegedly including him
11:40
Speaker 1: brooding over ways to get rid of his wife of
11:42
Speaker 1: nearly 16 years without facing consequences. He says something to
11:46
Speaker 1: the effect of how I want to kill her, but
11:50
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I'll go to hell. Like he says in
11:52
Speaker 1: a text message, I want to kill my wife, but
11:54
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I'll go to hell. I guess that's the
11:56
Speaker 1: pastor in him. That's like. Yeah. He's showing that he
11:59
Speaker 1: has morals. Right. But I'll go to hell. But for
12:02
Speaker 1: the hell factor, I would kill my wife. The prosecutor
12:06
Speaker 1: also told jurors that in one message, Flynn said he
12:09
Speaker 1: would do it without hesitation if it didn't cost him spiritually.
12:13
Speaker 1: Then summed up his state of mind. This is how
12:16
Speaker 1: dark and hateful I feel. The prosecutor says the messages
12:19
Speaker 1: were sent only months before Ashley Flynn died. There's also
12:23
Speaker 1: text messages that are sent the day before her death.
12:28
Speaker 1: So she dies on February 16th of 2026. On February 15th,
12:30
Speaker 1: he texts his mistress. And says something to the effect
12:37
Speaker 1: of tomorrow I'll be free. I've decided it's you. I
12:41
Speaker 1: pick you. We're going to be together. Tomorrow's like the
12:45
Speaker 1: big day. I just got to pick out a casket.
12:47
Speaker 1: I'm good to go. Right. So he texts with her
12:50
Speaker 1: about like this reckoning day on February 16th, which is
12:53
Speaker 1: the day his wife is shot. Then the defense comes up.
12:58
Speaker 1: and gives their opening statement. And I'm thinking, how do
13:00
Speaker 1: you defend this guy? Like, it's almost embarrassing at this
13:02
Speaker 1: point to defend this guy. I mean, the prosecutor stood
13:04
Speaker 1: there and basically read text messages to the jury where
13:08
Speaker 1: this guy's having an affair talking about how he's thinking
13:10
Speaker 1: he's trying to come up with ways to kill his wife. Right.
13:13
Speaker 1: Then the defense attorney gets up and she basically, I mean,
13:16
Speaker 1: all you can do is try to point out that
13:20
Speaker 1: because you're having an affair doesn't mean that you're a murderer.
13:23
Speaker 1: Because he's a dirtbag. Right. It does not mean he
13:25
Speaker 1: killed her. Right. So basically she does the whole spiel
13:28
Speaker 1: that defense attorneys do. He's a church going man. How
13:30
Speaker 1: could he have killed her? Yes. He might not be
13:33
Speaker 1: a good husband. And yes, he's having an affair. He
13:36
Speaker 1: might fantasize about killing her.
13:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:38
Speaker 1: But he's, you know, but it doesn't make him a murderer. Right.
13:42
Speaker 1: My client does not want to go to hell. The
13:45
Speaker 1: defense disputes the prosecution's case and argues that the relationship
13:48
Speaker 1: evidence does not establish that Caleb committed murder. They also
13:52
Speaker 1: claim that key physical evidence is missing, including an eyewitness
13:56
Speaker 1: surveillance footage and gunshot residue tying Flynn to the shooting.
14:01
Speaker 1: They claim that there's no like he doesn't have, you know,
14:04
Speaker 1: gunshot residue on his hands and that there's no eyewitness.
14:07
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the middle of the night. Where's the eyewitness?
14:09
Speaker 1: I mean, the daughters are asleep, right? And they're in
14:11
Speaker 1: their bedroom. This is dead. There's no surveillance footage. Well, obviously,
14:16
Speaker 1: I mean, if he's going to have he's going to
14:17
Speaker 1: say an intruder came in, I'm sure that if they
14:21
Speaker 1: have a ring camera, it's probably shut off. I don't know.
14:24
Speaker 1: But there's nothing that captures anyone around the house. I
14:29
Speaker 1: do know that because he said there was an intruder
14:31
Speaker 1: that the police had dogs and they did something with
14:36
Speaker 1: drones where some infrared thing where you can fly it
14:38
Speaker 1: around and you can see if there's any, you know,
14:41
Speaker 1: like warm bodies in the vicinity, something like that. Do
14:44
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about? Well, I never heard
14:46
Speaker 1: of that, but sounds okay. Yeah. So because he said
14:48
Speaker 1: it was an intruder, they, they did that. They were
14:50
Speaker 1: like searching for an intruder and obviously they found nothing
14:55
Speaker 1: that would indicate that there was any kind of intruder.
15:06
Speaker 1: Witness testimony begins and the courtroom has shown police body
15:09
Speaker 1: camera footage from the response to the Flynn home. I
15:12
Speaker 1: saw some of that. That's where it shows him, you know,
15:16
Speaker 1: grieving and then he's throwing up and then he calls
15:18
Speaker 1: the mother-in-law and then she comes over. He's going to
15:21
Speaker 1: go to hell.
15:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:22
Speaker 1: And then he hugs the mother-in-law and you know, he's sad.
15:26
Speaker 1: I do. I did read that. I don't, I'm not
15:28
Speaker 1: sure how old his two daughters are. I believe they're
15:30
Speaker 1: preteen kind of age, but I believe they're going to testify,
15:34
Speaker 1: which is interesting because I wonder if they'll testify. Two
15:38
Speaker 1: loud bangs. And then daddy got in our bed. Right.
15:40
Speaker 1: I wonder if they'll testify as to where, where he
15:44
Speaker 1: is in this house. If he was in their bedroom.
15:46
Speaker 1: I just told you what they're going to testify to you.
15:49
Speaker 1: All right, so we get to September 21 2026. The
15:52
Speaker 1: first witness is called and it's the Ohio Bureau of
15:55
Speaker 1: Criminal Investigation Special Agent David Hammond. He testified that the
16:00
Speaker 1: damage to the garage side door was inconsistent with what
16:03
Speaker 1: he had seen in hundreds of home burglaries. This bears
16:07
Speaker 1: directly on the prosecution's claim that the break in was staged.
16:11
Speaker 1: So basically, this is what I was saying is he's
16:14
Speaker 1: He claims that it just looks like someone was trying
16:16
Speaker 1: to make markings. As if someone didn't really break in
16:19
Speaker 1: that way. Right. They just marked it up. Right. So
16:22
Speaker 1: if you're going to stage a crime scene, you need
16:24
Speaker 1: to actually stage it like. Commit the crime. You have
16:27
Speaker 1: to commit the crime. Break in the house. You have
16:29
Speaker 1: to break in the door. Right. You can't just go
16:31
Speaker 1: get a screwdriver.
16:32
Speaker 2: And we've seen this many times. Don't bust the window
16:36
Speaker 2: from the inside of the house.
16:37
Speaker 1: Right. Do it from the outside. As if you're breaking in.
16:40
Speaker 2: Right.
16:40
Speaker 1: That's a good rule. Also, if you're going to make
16:44
Speaker 1: it look like an intruder came into your home and
16:46
Speaker 1: busted through the door, then actually go lock the door,
16:50
Speaker 1: go around to the side and actually break the door down.
16:53
Speaker 1: Don't retroactively go back with like a screwdriver and then
16:56
Speaker 1: try to make markings on the door. Right. Because they
16:58
Speaker 1: figure that stuff out.
16:59
Speaker 2: Right.
17:00
Speaker 1: Yes. And don't buy anything at Walmart. And don't buy
17:02
Speaker 1: your murder kit at Walmart. All right. The trial remains
17:06
Speaker 1: ongoing and is expected to run about two weeks. I
17:09
Speaker 1: am so interested in to see, like, what is the
17:12
Speaker 1: defense going to put on? Like, what witnesses are you
17:14
Speaker 1: going to put on for the defense? I mean, basically
17:18
Speaker 1: her defense is just because he's having an affair. It's
17:20
Speaker 1: not all witnesses. I mean, yeah, I guess it is.
17:22
Speaker 1: You could challenge....
17:25
Speaker 2: The prosecution's witnesses. Yeah, whatever the findings are, the allegations are.
17:28
Speaker 1: Well, you just want reasonable doubt, right? So basically, all
17:31
Speaker 1: she can do is poke holes in whatever the prosecution
17:34
Speaker 1: throws up there, right? Right. Jurors are expected to hear
17:37
Speaker 1: from a range of witnesses, including the woman Flynn was
17:40
Speaker 1: allegedly having an affair with. First of all, this man, allegedly,
17:46
Speaker 1: committed murder and shot his wife in the back of
17:48
Speaker 1: the head. He's got over 100,000 text messages with his mistress.
17:54
Speaker 1: And messages where he explicitly talks about killing his wife.
17:58
Speaker 1: How stupid can you be? Why are you staging a
18:00
Speaker 1: crime scene when you have digital forensic evidence on your
18:03
Speaker 1: phone that is making you look guilty? And he didn't
18:06
Speaker 1: even use a burner phone, I bet. No, he used
18:09
Speaker 1: his own cell phone. Did they even sleep together? Or
18:12
Speaker 1: is he just texting her all the time? Oh, I
18:15
Speaker 1: don't know, but she's going to testify. And does that
18:16
Speaker 1: not take him to hell by having an affair and
18:18
Speaker 1: breaking the bonds of marriage? No, apparently the affair is fine.
18:21
Speaker 1: God's okay with that. God's okay with affairs. Just not...
18:25
Speaker 1: Draws a line at murder. Draws a line at murder.
18:26
Speaker 1: But he figured out a way to rationalize it. Yeah,
18:29
Speaker 1: how so? What did he tell him? I don't know.
18:30
Speaker 1: He did because he... I don't know if he did
18:33
Speaker 1: because he was throwing up and everything. He was panicky.
18:35
Speaker 1: He was panicky. He killed his wife. He did kill
18:38
Speaker 1: his wife. He shot her in the back of the head.
18:40
Speaker 1: He did. That guy is going to hell. Yeah, he is.
18:42
Speaker 2: That is the unpardonable sin right there is cold blooded murder.
18:46
Speaker 1: And that's what that was. But my point is, I
18:49
Speaker 1: guess what the point I'm trying to make is if
18:51
Speaker 1: he was going to, if he's thinking about it for
18:53
Speaker 1: a year, he's texting his mistress, he's going over it
18:56
Speaker 1: in his head. He's, you know, he's trying to fake
18:58
Speaker 1: a crime scene. Why are you leaving text messages? Why
19:01
Speaker 1: are you texting your mistress from your cell phone and
19:05
Speaker 1: talking about ways that you want to kill your wife?
19:07
Speaker 1: He scratched up the door jam and he's like, there,
19:10
Speaker 1: that's it. I'll never get caught. Brilliant. I mean, can
19:14
Speaker 1: you imagine when they're like, excuse me, sir, we need
19:16
Speaker 1: to confiscate your phone because we need to look at
19:19
Speaker 1: your phone and your messages. I mean, can you imagine?
19:23
Speaker 1: I know. I'm telling you, if I could, had I known.
19:30
Speaker 2: My career I would have pursued is like phone data.
19:35
Speaker 2: That's all I would do is just download data from
19:38
Speaker 2: people's phones.
19:39
Speaker 1: That would be so fun.
19:40
Speaker 2: And they'll be like, have you seen anything implicating him
19:42
Speaker 2: in the murder of his wife?
19:43
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, but check this out. He's got, look
19:47
Speaker 1: at his shop history. Look at this. Look at that. Yes.
19:51
Speaker 1: But you can't do that because we learned that in
19:53
Speaker 1: the Karen Reed case. No, this isn't admissible. No, but
19:56
Speaker 1: you can't be sharing. You can't be. Yeah, but you
19:57
Speaker 1: can't be sharing that information with other people. Why don't
19:59
Speaker 1: I even have the job to begin with? I'm just
20:01
Speaker 1: letting you know in case it happens. Okay. My other
20:03
Speaker 1: point is about the mistress. First of all, I mean,
20:07
Speaker 1: take out the fact that this woman's dating a married
20:10
Speaker 1: man with children. I mean, that's awful. However, she's receiving messages.
20:16
Speaker 1: That's right.
20:17
Speaker 2: I forgot she's on the receiving end of the death. Yes.
20:20
Speaker 1: She's getting text messages from this man that she's having
20:23
Speaker 1: an affair with. Right. Who is telling her that he's
20:26
Speaker 1: trying to come up with ways to kill his wife
20:28
Speaker 1: and that he thinks about it all the time.
20:30
Speaker 2: Which is basically saying, I don't like her, so I'm
20:32
Speaker 2: going to kill her. Which means if I don't like you,
20:34
Speaker 2: I might kill you too. What she's saying in return?
20:38
Speaker 1: I don't know. That hasn't been disclosed. I mean, I
20:41
Speaker 1: wish I would love to see the entire text chain.
20:43
Speaker 1: Does she like give him a thumbs up? It's like
20:46
Speaker 1: the hands clapping, a heart. I don't know. What emojis
20:50
Speaker 1: is she using? How do you reply to something like that?
20:53
Speaker 1: What do you say? That's great, honey. I don't know.
20:55
Speaker 1: Let me know. Here, here's a challenge. Text one of
20:59
Speaker 1: your friends that you're thinking of killing me. Okay. And
21:02
Speaker 1: see what they say. Should I text Gina? Yeah. The
21:04
Speaker 1: same exact verbiage. Should I use it? Should I just
21:06
Speaker 1: text her? Yeah, copy and paste it. And see how
21:08
Speaker 1: she replies? See what she says.
21:10
Speaker 2: Okay.
21:10
Speaker 1: I'm not putting that on my phone. And then if
21:12
Speaker 1: I die, that can be used against you. I know.
21:13
Speaker 1: So I was like, this is not happening. I'm not
21:15
Speaker 1: even going to do that because... Oh, really?
21:17
Speaker 2: No.
21:18
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be funny because I would love
21:20
Speaker 1: to see what Gina says in reply, but I'm not
21:22
Speaker 1: doing that because with my luck, the demise of you
21:25
Speaker 1: will happen. I'll get shot in the back of the
21:26
Speaker 1: head in the middle of the night. Yeah. But again,
21:30
Speaker 1: why is she getting text messages like this? Is she
21:33
Speaker 1: elated when she gets these text messages? Is she like, yay,
21:36
Speaker 1: we're going to be together. I don't know. I mean,
21:37
Speaker 1: doesn't she think that she has some moral duty to
21:39
Speaker 1: maybe let someone know that this man is like.
21:42
Speaker 2: When I see the women like this, or if it's
21:45
Speaker 2: a man, but in this case, it's a woman. All
21:47
Speaker 2: I think is that is a loyal woman. That woman
21:51
Speaker 2: will do anything for this man.
21:52
Speaker 1: I guess. No wonder why he's in love with her.
21:55
Speaker 1: But she's going to testify against him. Is she?
21:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, because she's got to save her own butt. Well,
22:01
Speaker 1: because she looks bad. She looks really bad. So maybe
22:03
Speaker 1: she's going to try to redeem herself on the stand.
22:06
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just want to know what kind
22:08
Speaker 1: of woman, one, has an affair with a married man,
22:10
Speaker 1: and then two, receives text messages like that and doesn't
22:13
Speaker 1: feel some moral obligation. This is like Death of a
22:14
Speaker 1: Pastor's Wife, the sequel.
22:16
Speaker 2: It is.
22:17
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. That could be a whole series, Death
22:20
Speaker 1: of a Pastor's Wife. We could just go find all
22:22
Speaker 1: the cases where a pastor has killed his wife. Next
22:27
Speaker 1: spinoff on Legally Brunette. All right. Thank you guys for listening.
22:30
Speaker 1: Till death do us part. We appreciate it. If you
22:33
Speaker 1: have any recommendations for cases for till death, please find
22:37
Speaker 1: me on Instagram and let me know. There's an endless
22:39
Speaker 1: plethora of cases out there of husbands offing their wives. 50%
22:45
Speaker 1: of the marriages end up in divorce. Yeah.
22:47
Speaker 2: It's like the other 50% are like murder.
22:49
Speaker 1: And death. right that's just never ending we there's just
22:52
Speaker 1: always something to talk about on this podcast so anyway
22:56
Speaker 1: also please follow lily brunette wherever you listen to podcasts
22:59
Speaker 1: leave us a review we love to read those and
23:03
Speaker 1: as always thank you so much for listening we appreciate
23:05
Speaker 1: you