Latest / Apostle Lazarus Femi / IT TAKES 5 MINUTES TO KNOW A MAN THAT WILL SUCCEED

Transcript

IT TAKES 5 MINUTES TO KNOW A MAN THAT WILL SUCCEED · Apostle Lazarus Femi

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Nigurians are intelligent people, and that is partly driven by competition.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: You can say the same of India, the world's most
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: popular country now and.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: The Chinese professor Hillary Innyang, the Nigerian scientist who rose
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: from a shell scholarship in Calibar to the halls of
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the US Environmental Protection Agency.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So I have seen Nigerian students come over to America.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I've seen Chinese students come over to America, Indians of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: thousands of them over the years. You know what has
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: happened when a Chinese students comes. You know they will
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: get an apartment and leave five there and jointly own
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a car. But when the ninsurance then comes, he or
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: she wants to be individualistic, you will hardly have a
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: roommate swit our culture. It's the culture group culture versus
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: individualistic culture.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I like to quickly tap into now. Apart from
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: your vastness as a professor of the things you've seen
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: all over the world, also it's the age factor and
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: the depth of experience that you have. You know, all
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: these things you've been doing the most have been times
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: that you've seen people and look at the pattern the
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: things they are trying to do the methods, and you
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: know quite well in your heart they won't do well.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, you've had such experience with some Naggerians in.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: America becoming one of the world's foremost environmental engineers.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: A UNESCO advisor university president. Takes me five minutes to
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: recognize or will do well, and it takes you five minutes.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Five minutes.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: We'll do what I will.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: For somebody to come and make his proposal and see
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: they usually I listen to them and observe them. The
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: most successful people that I've had are not the most
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: talented people who have come. Now somebody comes and the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: others okay, some from Nigeria. I am here. We have
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to make money, you and those kinds of things.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: The mindset.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when once you have that mindset and you cannot
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: explain why you want to succeed. In my mind, I'm thinking,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: if this person succeeds, I want this person to be
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a global leader that helps others do things and leave
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: this world much better than they came to fight. But
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: if this person is talking much more of indivisual interests,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: his personal interest nothing to give back to society, to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: expand opportunities for others, Why should I waste resources of
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: our institute on him or so?
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: You believe that the individualistic mindset of let your school
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: street with nine germs can be a factive So the
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: reason why we are not successful that much as a
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: community a friends, I want to welcome you to the
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Classified podcast myself and my team who've been working so
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: hard behind the scene to get different intellectual conversations across
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: to you. We know that these conversations will from the
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: basis for what will change our world as we know
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: it because words from narratives. Narratives shape culture, and this
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: is the reason why I want to invite you to
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: join you on this journey, not just as one who
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: is going to view this today. I want to have
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: you on board with me and I like for you
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: to just do these three quick things for me. Number one,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I like for you to like this particular podcast you know,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: don't just watch, just like I want.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: You to do that for me.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: And when you do this, the algorithm things is to
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: as many pople as possible who can now have access
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: to enjoy the very same thing you enjoy.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: Also, I like for you to comment.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: Let us know how this is impacted you think you
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: learned that sometimes just your own view, and I like
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: for you to also subscribe on this YouTube channel, like
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: for us to grow together as a community. I look
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: forward to having you again and again on the Classified
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: podcast and I can wait to see some other time.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Proof you grew to the highest level an African American,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: the light they could ever attained in America.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: What do you think made happen?
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: What made that happen can be segmented into three or
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: four factors. Yes, number one, I had good upbringing in
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Nigeria as a kid, and let me give much credit
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to that. My teachers, my parents build the foundation on
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: which I now stand. My eventual translation to the United
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: States was to go and get more opportunities to study
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and find my fooding in academic and other things that
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I have done. I think at the personal level, talent
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is not the only thing. You must find opportunity and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: also have some level of mentorship and have some level
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: of resilience on your mission. And I think those things,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: at the very basic level are the things that have
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: enabled me to capitalize on opportunities to this level.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: So you got mentors that were able to hold you
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: by the hand.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, I can mention quite a lot of them. Unfortunately,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: at the time I came up in the United States
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: in my field, which was at that time and still
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: is to some extent, engineering, I did not have very
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: many people of my race ahead of me. I became
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the first distinguished professor of environmental engineering was black in
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the United States. So I wish I had others above
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: me that I could have learned from. So white folks,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Chinese folks, people like Professor Jiang Fang and others are
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: those I looked up to. I could not look up
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to people of my race in those fields because they
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: were known. I was one of the powonier groups. So
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I have since that time adopted some sort of philosophy
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of the one who helps you doesn't need to be
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  Speaker 1: your race to be of your race, but they just
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: have to be good people, and you can find good
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: people from across races. This is why I've adopted a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: very very global, non tribal, non nationalistic.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, you're quite the culturalized man. There's no inch of
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: culture in you in a good sense. I mean in
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: the sense that you you a first you've seen things
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: across board and but there's this thing about the African
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: American community. Yes, let's just let's talk about the Naegerian
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: community in America first. Yes, individually we tend to be
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: quite successful. Yes, in academics, in medicine, in the research
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  Speaker 3: and different fields. We tend to be doing quite well
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: as individuals. Yes, But we are not as successful as
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: a community as other communities in America, like the Indians,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: the Jewish communities. We seem to be nowhere close to
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: the front. But what do you think is responsible for that?
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: And about two factors or so?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: You made a remark that I would like to address
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: before I take on this question. I cannot afford to
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: be otherwise. I'm an expeditionist. Who are the people who
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: cater for me in some of those expeditions? When I
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: went to Siberia, I spent quite some time in Siberia
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: as the leader of US scientific expedition to the northern
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: parts of the world. The people who helped me had
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the eschemo like people. I lived with them in the igloos.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Some of them it was the first time they saw
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a black person. So I mean Chinese villages. Yes, Because
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Siberia is a few miles from the North Pole, it's
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: extremely cold. You have six months of winter and six
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: months of daylight, winter nights, winter night, six months of
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: night and six months of daylight. You understand, So why
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: should I image out of that environment and not adopt
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a global perspective on life South America? The same thing
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I've done expeditions in the Amazon forests, lived with those Indians,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: or in China five hundred villages, expeditions across deserts in China.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: So when you have been the products of the service,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: product of the faith, the mindedness of things, you have
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: to be very global in your own thinking. Yes, now
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: you asked me about the individualism of Nigerians. Nigerians are
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: intelligent people and that is partly driven by competition. As
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you know, when you have to compete, you will have
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: some survivors of that competition and they are going to
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: be very good. Understand. You can say this same of India,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the world's most popular country now and the Chinese. So
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Nigeria is a place that is teaming with culture units
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  Speaker 1: that were parts of the empires of the past. So
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  Speaker 1: it is really expected that when they would converge into
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  Speaker 1: a country that the best who come out of the
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  Speaker 1: ango versits are going to do well against competition, But
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: why don't they operate like the Chinese in America. I
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was a professor at the University of Massachusetts for a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: long time and professor at the University of North Carolina
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and many other university university. I started as a professor
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and assistant professor at the University of Wisconsin in nineteen
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: eighty eight. So I have seen Nigerian students come over
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: to America. I've seen Chinese students come over to America, Indians,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: thousands of them over the years. You know what has
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: happened when a Chinese students comes. You know they will
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: get an apartment and leave five there and jointly own
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a car. But when in Nindiance then comes he or
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: she wants to be individualistic, you will hardly have a
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: roommate swet our culture. It's the culture is the culture
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: group culture versus individualistic culture.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I like to quickly tap into now apart from
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: your vastness as a professor of the things you've seen
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: all over the world, Also it's the age factor and
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: the depth of experience that you have in all these
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: things you've been doing. There most have been times that
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: you've seen people and you look at the pattern, the
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: things they are trying to do, the methods, and you
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: know quite well in your heart they won't do well. Yes,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: you've had such experience with some Ninegerians in America.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: It takes me five minutes to recognize who do well
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and who would. I've had to deal with this this way,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and it takes you five minutes, five minutes for somebody
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  Speaker 1: to come and make his proposal and sit there. Usually
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I listen to them and observe them. I want to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: listen to why they want to join us, why he
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: or she wants to join my research group. And the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: most successful people that I've had are not the most
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: talented people who have come. My student is now the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: president of the university that I was a professor. And
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: his father brought him and told him professor. And he's white.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: His father brought him and told him professor, and I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was basically the same age with his son. I have
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: heard that what you do to folks from across different
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: places megs something out of my son. I looked at
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: his son, I asked a few questions. I had no
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: doubt that he would be what it is today. And
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: there's another one that I met in Brazil who came
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: up to me. When people were saying, like you now, professor,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: young you've been everywhere tell us. In a big event
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: with ministers in Brazil, I observed a young kid sitting
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: in the corner just looking at me, and when he
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: had the chance, he came up to me and said, Professor,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I would like to have your life feel
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: like you. I said, well you can. You can even
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: surpass me, and I am very serious about that. He
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: told me, But there are some things that hold me back.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, second year student at the University of Belo Rizante.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Bello Risant is a mining area in Brazil that I
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: did many expeditions. So when he told me, there isn't
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: it's see, I never had a Anybody told me tell
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: me that I could go very far. So in my
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: first year and second year in college, I didn't do well.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: But now I'm finding out that is very difficult to
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: correct that because my GPA, even if I have AAAAA now,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the a's would not make up for the FFFD and
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: E that I had before. I looked into his eye
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and I saw success because I found out later that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this same boy was spending his saturdays going to the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: downtown area where there are very poor people and joining
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: them to serve food, to serve soup every Saturday. That
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: somebody wants to change the world. That's why I came
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to America. And it's now dean of Engineering at University
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: of California.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: In the US. Wow.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, so it is possible to see that. Now somebody
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: comes and the others Okay, some from Nigeria, professor I
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: am here. We have to make money, you and those
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: kinds of things.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: The mindset.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when once you have that mindset and you cannot
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: explain why you want to succeed. In my mind and thinking,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: if this person succeeds, I want this person to be
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a global leader that helps others do things and leave
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: this world much better than they came to find. But
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: if this person is talking much more of individualixy interests,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: his personal interest, nothing to give back to society to
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: expand opportunities for others, Why should I waste resources of
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: our institute on him?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Or so you believe that the individualistic mindset of you
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: street Winnine Gens can be a factor. So the reason
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: why we are not successful that much as a community.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Because individualistic lifestyle. Although it is okay, in a context.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: For example, an individualistic person, what kind of individualism is
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he or she engaged? Is this individualism to succeed? In
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: other words, you look at some of the Jews. They
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: made a lot of money and then eventually they gave
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the money away. They're the ones who built, have had university,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: might many of these other institutions. So initial individualism, it's
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: not necessarily bad. But to what purpose will it be
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: put later on in life? So somebody can make it
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: perfectly logical argument. Yes, I have to accumulate before I distribute. Yes, right,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: as a good argument, that's a very good argument. The
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: end justifies the means. When I get it, I'm doing this.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I want to make money. I cannot with the emolument
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I have as my investment, take that investment and distribute
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it to every poor person when I have not reached
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: economy of scale yet to take that and then help
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: even the larger society. You understand, Yes, when are you Christian? Okay?
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Jesus did not go picking poor people as disciples, right
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you believe that he didn't historically? Historically yeah, Jesus peak
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: who carpenters and fishermen? There were many in Galilee sitting around.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: I pick those busy.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: He picked those who had purpose in life, who were
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: in the provisions, making money, accumulating, but to later do
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: what to later become visions of men. In other words,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: they build their capacities and then use their capacities to
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: save society. You know, most of them became apostles after
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Jesus was executed.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Right our religions are you? Are you deeply religious?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I believe in God, but not in the same way
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that most people do.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Do you think the yes, with the same concept you
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: explained now in the fact that Jesus think about picking
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: those who purposeless, do you think that maybe just anybody
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: coming into what we now called ministry in Africa has
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: also contributed to the decadence of the continent in the
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: sense that they are not able to enhance the people
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: transform them, because I mean, the work of ministry now
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: looks like a well BScP you share that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I share that opinion very deeply. Let's look at the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: life of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was a Jewish, you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: a Jewish rebel, and I don't say that in the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: meaning way. That's what it was. He came to change
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the world and he couldn't come to comply with existing
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Jewish laws, right, he came to Judea. But what was
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: his personal His personal was somebody with long hair. We
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: know he wasn't white, or the white people would like
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to paintimon now, but he wasn't. He was brown because
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: coming from that part of the world, he had to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: be look like where he did. And he was andals,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: right he was and as and he wore a farmer's dress,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and which they still were today in Ethiopia. An Ethiopian
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: farmer is an exact embodiment by Looksthopian.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: And Jews are Jews.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: The real Jews will come back to that. But let
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: me say that Jesus Christ with sandals and a belt
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and a hatesman's staff, that was his dress style. Can
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you compare that to those with golden domes? As the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: churches now have five planes? Right for some sort of
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: religious man, what kind of religion is that? Who are
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: they copying? And then they build universities and then collect
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: money every Sunday, But the congregation can send no child
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to that university because his are too high. So much
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and injustice because most of the people who are now
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: leading religious people not just in Christianity, do not copy
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: the Savior who came and they are now Christians so
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: many things. Now, you ask me a question of my Christians.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I believe in God, and let me say this. I've
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: not said this on television before. I want to ask
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: some Christians. Since this world started, they've been billions and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: billions of humans, yes, right, Jesus Christ came two thousand,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: one hundred years ago. Yes, in the long history of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: humanity that goes back five hundred thousands The world, this
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: earth is about four point seven billion years old, right
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: from science four point yes? Now, but the history of
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: humanity right from Lucy in the Ethiopian Highlands or disputed
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: things about the town man in Southeast Asia or in
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: South Africa. Yeah, no, more than five hundred thousand years.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Jesus came how long ago? Two thousand, one hundred. He
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: died at age steady three.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Now, so do you think that all of those people
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: who existed, some of who were good before Christ, will
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: not go to heaven? Where would they be if only
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Christians will go to heaven?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: So does it mean does the christiancy don and really
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: think about this? Does it mean that one point four
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: billion Buddhists and others, and Hindus in China will not
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: go to heaven. So my way of thinking about God
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: is this. I acknowledge that God exists because we have
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: so many galaxies, We have so many systems that even
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the human mind cannot imagine space that doesn't have a
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: fall off. It is infinite. We are thought finiteness by
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: our brains. But to think that something exists without end
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: and time can If you sit in a room and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: close the door, you can get mad if you continue
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to think too deep about that. There must be a God.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: There must be an intelligent being behind the architecture which.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: We all got called God. Yes in different languages, Yes, right,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So the pathway to get into that God is just
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: as on It's probabilistic. If I was born in Palestine
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: of those days Judea, I would be Jewish. If I
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: was born in a in A, I go to India
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a lot, I would be a Buddhist. Right. If I
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: was Chinese, I probably believe be godless too, So you
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: can I believe now this is a personal belief. I
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: don't need to enforce it on anybody. I believe that
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: pathways to God are different and that heaven would be
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: populated by people from various places who found their way
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to the same God.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: So you believe Jesus just probably one of those ways, And.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: It's the one I have selected, and I have reasons
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to it. I selected because it is he is a
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: personal game to price peace. Who else would I I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: don't want to select anybody. You never pres peace, Chris peace.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: But the fact is this that I have historical reasons
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the whole thing about coming to bring peace, not that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: of war, and for recognition of other races and other
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: levels of poverty and wealth without castigating any group, lack
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: of recognition of caste, and being breath to speak ruth
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to power, even when at that time, as you know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the Roman Empire was very strong. You understand, yes, but
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: he still managed to oppose them on things that were wrong.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: And when Punchius Pilots as governor of Judea, even so
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: that this man did nothing but to presh the truth.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Remember that he wanted to wash his hands off. Yes,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: it is safer Us and the rest that decided that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the desire fish, the viracists that decided that if you
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: leave this man, he will talk.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: You seem to also believe that the religion is you
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: think it's a fundamental problem in Africa.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Religion as practiced as practice not the essence of religion.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: The essence of religion is peace. Religion came to promote
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: interactions among diverse segments of society that you would not fight,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: that you would have personal relationship with God. But God
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: is one who created diversity. He would not have created
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: diversity so that they will fight among themselves, tribes, nationality
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and as you recognize all these flags that we have
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: are products of human are doing.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I asked that question in respect to the false of
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: that comes with belief system that an environment will self
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: appear and then self emerge. God is going to come
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: and it's one day, so it's going to like it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Isn't that respect that asks that question?
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: You know, n indurance believe in physical heaven, some heaven
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: that is there. But as you know every we all
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: know what is that that the clouds have no houses
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: in them. You know, if you go beyond that sixteen miles,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: you get into deep space and you begin to go
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: on and on and on the there is no heaven.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: You don't believe there's a physical location.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think there is one, and all evidence is
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that there isn't. But I do believe in heaven that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: is in a different dimension among us. Like when you die,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: your spirit goes away, you.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Lose the location.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Also, they said that in respect of dimensions, and not
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: in respect to space and time, but in respect to
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: an object that exists in a different share of itself.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Then you are coming very close to my belief that
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: we are we have dimensions, rights are interacting with me.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: You see me now, But what tells you we are
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: now experimenting in science into food and fit dimensions, dimensions
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that are invisible. Yes, so why should why should Heaven
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: be up there somewhere? It's around us, I think a
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: different dimensions around us, around us. There is no reason
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: it should not be around us in a different dimension.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: All other dimensions are around us. Unless you believe that
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: one of the planets way out there, exoplanets, some way
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: out there is where God keeps all those who go
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: to heaven. But we will not ever be able to.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: As you know, I'm very happy you were talking space
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and showing me that you have some reasonable appreciation.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Well, not as you, but you were saying somethings.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: You are very well versed things. Yes, he noted that. Yes,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: so unless you believe that, and there are those who do,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: even among the scientists. We have millions and trillions and
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: trillions of galaxies and systems. So the more be one
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that is out there that is amenable to spiritual travel,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: you understand, and we have with all the signs that
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: we have, we have not been able to make our
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: way outside our galaxy. We will never never because not
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: with the missions that will ever have.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: So any do you really believe that all these galaxies,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: all these places, do you believe they exist?
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Of course we have seen them with.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Stories that believe that America fake the moon landing. They say,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: you know, Neil Armstrong was several times and if you
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: would stand to.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe became snile after a while. But you know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and all the preparations we've done, the people who went there,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: they are still around. So not the moon landing, the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: spaceship itself. You know that the spaceship was instrumented. It's there.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: The spaceship is that the Smithsonian Museum in President Trump
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: allows us to still maintain it is there. So it
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: is a mansion that it looks crappy, but it did
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: go to the Moon, and of course you know the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Chinese have replicated it.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: You know that America just tried to beat I personal opinion,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I feel it was propa and I felt the America
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: needed to be the Chinese to it. I feel many
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: things in about the moon landing. One of the fact
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: is that would not been able to go back after
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: that first time.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: No, no, let me correge you there. Yes, please, I
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: can tell you with personal knowledge, yes of things. Yes,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: of course you know I have been dieping us since
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty eight, even the war. I used to be.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I used to be the chairman, not chairman, chief technical
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: judge of the US New clar Reculatory Commission for four years.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: So I know a lot of US science and that
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: is private to us. Okay, So yes, I can tell
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you with ninety nine percent convenience that the US did.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Go to the Moon.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Now you have now alluded to the fact that we're
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: not gone back there. There has been no need to
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: go back there. It is only now that the Chinese
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: are trying to build colonist there that we are going
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to return for sure within the next day.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: You alwayst try to build the Chinese.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: The Chinese, as friendly as they are with me, there
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: are our greatest geopolitical threat. I wouldn't like to say
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: that they have to be and it is of their
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: own doing, because, as I said much earlier, I prefer
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: global peace and of engagement of the Chinese. I was
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: just in China last month. I was there, was given
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: an award Chinese folks. But you know, I'll tell you why.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: The Chinese there folks that we have to take seriously.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I don't say confront please, I'm not saying confront the Chinese,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and just as we have to take them most seriously. One.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: The level of discipline is legendary. I told you that
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I've done expeditions to about five hundred Chinese villages, and
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I was the first black professor in all of China
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: when I became professor at Niger University in nineteen ninety six. Yes,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: in jiang Zu Province. So I had the opportunity to
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: go around China and I found the level of discipline
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: they had in the villages. We don't have that in
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the United States and will never have. We have some
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: advantages in the United States in other sectors of life,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: but definitely not in enterprising spirit. The US is made
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: of people that are very intelligent and very very well.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I would say that we are enterprising too, but we
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: are the enterprising in a different system. It is like
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the Chinese all live for production. Yes, yes, so it
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: is difficult. Basically, everything in our shops in America, at
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: least eighty percent of items in our shops in America
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: made in China. Now, so we can look at that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: in a positive way and a negative way. A positive
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: way in the sense that if the Chinese did not
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: flood America with low cost goods, they average American in
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the lower middle class would soffer, do you understand, because
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: most items would not be affordable. So the advent of
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: the Chinese in manufacturing things and feeling k mats wal
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: mats all this has made life affordable for most people
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: in the lower middle class in America. But what it
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: has also thought is to take an entire class of
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: professions of the American table, of the American system. This
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: is why this policy of repatrating Mexicans and all that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: we're walking in our farms is problematic, because we don't
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: have people walking picking well.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: This is what in the system already. It is in
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: the system already.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: It is making it very difficult, and most Americans don't
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: like it. Those who own the firms. We don't have
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: workers walking.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: There are human abuses with all these things, you know.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Twofold Number one, No country can be blamed for sending
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: off illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants. Remember that. Even Nigeria did
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: that to Ghana many years ago.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: The Ghanians were not like what you said.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: The Nigerant send the Ghanians away, must go right, So
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Nigeria did it too. No country wants citizens of other
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: countries to come in not flooding. If you flood legally,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: that's fine. White people came from Europe to America, but
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: most of them legally at the time. That was the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: policy of the US at the time. At the time,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you had to have a past the entire the ship
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: now in Glasgow, any of those places to come down.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: Maybe I just don't feel it to the land legally.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: That's that's four hundred years area Earlia from the Indians. Okay,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that was ill at the time and the world was
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: like that then you understand now with modern countries with
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: flags and all that, you just can go to Cameroon
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and and and and go there illegally and OVERSTATEI a visa.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So this is where one has to be very careful
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: with critique of Trump. If Trump is sending away illegal
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: immigrants who have overstate, that is something else. Every country
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: has that right. But if Trump is now coming to
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: get their children who were born in America and reportrating them,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that is wrong because a US law says anybody who
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: is born in America is an.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: American's that's about to change in his administration.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: He cannot too many people ascribing powers to Trump that
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have. Remember, the United States has a constitution. Yes,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: and you have seen a lot of packing back of
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Trump policies by the Supreme Court and by judges in
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the States and in the different states. So Trump is
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: powerful as an American president, but its power is not infinite.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: It's not You still maintain your deep Nigerian route. Yes,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I do despar all the accomplishments you have all over
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: the world. Yes, if you are given a position in Nigeria,
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: now you have an appointment in your field, something that
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: can really help the nation.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: You've experienced other things, you know what to do. Will
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: you considered.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: It would be very difficult? I tell you why, because
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: number one, it's not really necessary. You have alluded to
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: my being involved in Nigeria as a country of my origin. Yes,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I have no apologies to make for that, because there
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: are Indian Americans who are active in India. They are Jewish Americans,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: and you know that Jewish Americans are the most involved
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: in Israel and all that, and they lobby the US
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Congresses of what Israel and all that. So I don't
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: feel you know, I don't feel shy of contributing to Nigeria.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to contribute to Nigeria and I have.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: I'm one of those who established the fem Ministry of Environment, Yes,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: from what it used to be Faine Legos. I was
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the principal character who did that. The current Nigerian federal
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: what do you call it the road map, the Nigerian
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: National road Map for Science, Technology and Innovation twenty twenty
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: seven to twenty thirty that was approved by Buhari and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the Nigerian cabinet. I am the prime primary author, the
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: primary out of Nigeria's Federal Manual for Oil Spill Management
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: and many other Nigerian scientific manuals that they use in Nigeria.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I have come here before and serve as visions and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: first versions of the African University of Science and Technology
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: here in Abuja. And I'm currently the chairman of all
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: those who have won national awards for science and take
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: n om relations. So so to end that previous remark,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: since I have already had opportunity to serve Nigeria and
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: will continue to lead intellectual efforts to do that, I
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: don't need to be a minister. I don't need to
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: be any of those things. I'm comfortable you don't want to.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I don't don't want to. I don't need to because
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I've operated at such levels. I was a chairman of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the African Science Plans the entire continent that includes Nigeria.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: For two years. Do you feel like yours group?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: You are persussive interview? I thought you forget that man
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: you're asking. It's a good time. Yes. A country is
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: never entirely corrupt. Segments of that country corrupt. So if
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I say Nigeria is corrupt, it would be a generalization
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: that would be unfair about segments of Nigeria a corrupt.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I have taken the Nigerian government to court before and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: one after fourteen years of fight. Really, yes, I have.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I'm entirely against corruption of any sort. Yes, I've taken them.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: The case is now in the appeals caught you have appeal.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: They were telling me you can't take the government to court.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I took them to court here in the fair high
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: court budget you want, and I won in twenty seventeen.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: They have taken the case to they appeal court. They
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: are there and they are going to lose there too.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to assure you that no proof.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: There's something I believe and I'm very concerned about, particularly
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: quality of education, not just the quality.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: But the direction. Yes in Africa, but let's mainstream nager.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, what are the possible changes you think we need
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: to make to move from the kind of economy where
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: people finish school and queue for jobs and we know
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: that the jobs are not already available and to do
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: What are the things you think we need to do
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: to evolve and catch up with the rest of the world.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: The best question you've asked me today. I will reference
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: something we are doing in Aquaibum State. When I was
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: US ambassadors callared it. I got a call from Aquaibum
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: State government. You know I was born in so that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the governor has been trying everything to see me. At
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: that time, had already arranged to come to Nigeria to
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: see the former Vice president because it's any not to
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: me that we should meet the Oh yeah, yes, yeah,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: So I combined the two trips. When I came, I
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: met with Governor uh the presidents governor of Aquaibum, dom Manuel,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Governor dom Manuel. So he told me that he wanted
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: me to chair a commission think tank to improve the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: educational circumstances of aquiment. I had already told Yemi, the
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Vice President, that I'm coming to meet him to try
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to do things, because they were preparing to appoint me
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: to the governing board of that institute in Kuru, the
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: NIPPS in Kuru, Nigerian Institute for Public for Policy Studies
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: in Kuru. So what I did accept. So I'm bringing
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: this in to tell you that I already have the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: road map that every state in Nigeria should adopt. The
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: reason individual states and then I'll tell you about the collective. Now,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: many organizations have tried to improve education in Nigeria. I
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: was the chair of the World Bank State b Projects
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: that the World Bank gave millions for improvement of education
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: in Nigeria. That was twenty fourteen or thereabouts, but nothing
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: has happened positive even in the Aquaibum one. How do
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you improve education? You have to look at number one curriculum. Curriculum, Second,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: physical facilities who shouldn't be studying? When that trees, Then
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you have apart from the physical facilities, you have equipment
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: in them ah and then the processes educational processes. If
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: there is no intervention in any of these four, nothing
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: will work right. You look at a state like a Quaibum.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Most Nigerian educational systems are tied to prospective service in
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the civil service. There is no entire ownership, you understand.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: So even when you take a university, let's leave at
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: that of secondary school. How did I succeed as vice
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: chancell of this university and VA chancel of that university
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: in Buttsana. I was Vashioncello in Southern Africa as well
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: that grade school that is there, I would say second
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: version Slo a university in Ninegeria that will produce good graduates.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: MOSERF Three streams. One. You have a deputy vision salo
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: for academic affairs. In the US we call them provosts. Right, Well,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: have a Deputy Version Salo for administration, student affairs, accounting,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: human resources and so forth, and then a Deputy Vice
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Chancello for accounting, and then finally the one that Nigeria
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: refuses to have Deputy Vition Salo for strategic business. You know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: if a university is not driven by sustainability principles, it
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: will never work. Most universities in Nigeria now that have
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: populations of sixty thousand were actually designed for populations of
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: ten thousand. So how is that university going to sustain
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: itself just by allocations? If you take a location payhead
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: of student and compare that to allocation to pay head
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: of students in South Africa, it pales. Or in Egypt,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: or in Senegal or in Kenya for that matter, we see.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is that most of the viasianzelos,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: unfortunately I'm going to say it here, are lazy because
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Vaisian sloship in Nigeria has become something that you appoint
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: somebody from that state, right sometimes rotational. If the people
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: of Botswana thought this way, am I from Botswana to
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: have been a vision celot there? I'm not from Botswana
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: by any means you understand, So you select the best
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: vision seals and the best deputy vision SEALSS not by
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: their state or and local government of origin. That's number one.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Number two, those universities that are sponsored by government will
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: never have the resources to develop into proper universities, so
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: they must engage entire partnership owned businesses. The reason you
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: had the American University of Yola. I went to speak there.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: You not speak invitation by Atiku some years ago. The
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: reason they're doing well is that they have an entity
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: business entity supporting it. I don't know what they're doing now,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: but they had Farah Waters producing money to support that university.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Alfa Babylola. Is that not the same thing he's doing?
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Investies that are actually doing that, you are also nice
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: toward us. Their bread factory has qus some other stuffs. Yes,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: maybe not as pronounced as the way they should be
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: doing it.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, let me come in there. When they have a
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: class in mathematics or a class in economics. How many
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: students in that room will be sitting down and how
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: many will be outside?
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Number outside?
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Okay? You see, So even though they are doing that,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: there are many elements they need to clean up. You
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: can compare class conditions there.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: I yes, correct, this.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Is my country number seventy seven operading. I lived in
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: eleven and mostly tried to Kadym and all these things.
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Do you feel schools are over admitting?
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Schools are over admitting. And let me say something that
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: would be considered controversial. Every country has to have special
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: universes for the specially talented some of them. You cannot
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: have all universes be the same and stay at the
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: mediocre level. Separate some schools and let them be had
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: miit and all that. Let me reveal something to you
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: that it may not have known. I was selected in
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: this country as a special kid. I'm sent to America
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: by the government of Nigier. Really, yes, nineteen eighty one.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: So I was selected. And when I go to America,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I was sponsored in Nigeria by SHELL. I used to
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: be intelligent. I'm not intelligent anymore. I spent about I did.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I entered secondary school in nineteen seventy three and left
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six after three years go to university.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: So I was the youngest university student in Nigeria. So
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: when President shah Gari came to visit Unical. I attended Unical.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Sheell gave me a scholarship to go there and so
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: when I finished, I was sent to America. I landed
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: at the f AG scholarship. But when I got to America,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: the US government took over my education, so I never
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: really used the Nigerian scholarship. And so that's one of
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the reasons I must also serve Nigeria. I'm the products
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: of the contribution of many entities.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Do you have been able to go to America by
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: yourself if Nigeria didn't send today?
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I think so because my parents were not really poor
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and many American universities were giving me scholarships, scholarships to
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: nine of them. So, but the Nigerian one. What happened
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: is that the US government collected us from different countries
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: talented kids, yeah, and assembled us there and so but
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I remain grateful to Nigeria for that. I hope that
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: those programs are still on, you know, we.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: Hope that they finished playing the schoofies of the people
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: they send. This is one thing I really want to
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: ask you have given you observation.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: First, is the administration of the schools. Yes.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: And also let's talk about the lectures, the condition, the lens.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Some people are studying microbiology, they don'tee microscope till pat three. Yes,
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: we have cases where students the things that are available,
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: the equipment they need, they are not going around. Yes,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: now let's go to your recommendations. What do you recommend?
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: Do you are you because if schools begin to un
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: that meets that means that we're going to have more
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: number of people who have finished secondary school can get
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: into university in Nagiera. What do you recommend in this case?
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've identified one very important consideration. A society that
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: will do well with respect to education has to have
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: a pyramidal structure in education. I've often drawn that and
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: given segments in other words, the pyira midal structure in
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: which we have a very enlightened base. These are the
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: people who are technicians and any living like they do
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: in Germany without having a PhD. You may even and
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: as much as a PhD does. But those are the secretaries,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: well trained secretaries, letting be trained on AI and many
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: of these other new technologists. That's the foundation, that's the base.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Next to that are the technologists, the kind of people
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: that come out of colleges of technology and so forth.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: They helped run the engine of that country. If you
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: don't have them, that country is not going to do
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: well in competition. They're the ones who will work in
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: the factories cemn factory, know how to make life in
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: a bar, know how to operate turning factories in canoe
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: and all of reasons. Say, next to that are the
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: people who are the bachelor's and master's degree and at
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the very top you will have the PhD s, postdocs
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: and all that a pyramidal structure. In other words, it
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that you have to abandon the base.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Those people must be able to have skills. The problem
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: with the majority of Nigerian's at that base they don't
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: have enough skills because a lot of them are looking
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: for employment. Now, tell me, I gave a lecture at
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the Raw Materials says the first inaugural lecture they have.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I think that was six months or so ago. Most
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: of the Nigerian building contractors, do you know where they
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: come from?
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: India? China?
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: No, the need Republic, the Republic, the Republic Gala, Yeah,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: and to go you can find the qualified ones. Yet now,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: because the educational system is not good enough to produce
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: those who can perform those services. If you take an
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: average student who graduates remember I've been verace ancelaw. Here,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: an average student who who graduates with mass communication mass communication,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: which is a very popular course in Nigeria, is that
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: student going to be able to write a story about
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: something very few? Second, that student may not even be
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: able to to operate a computer properly to download theorists
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: that students may not even know the key textbooks in
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: that field. As them, I've interviewed a lot of them.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Ask them, who is the author the best textbooks in
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: your field? Mass communication? No idea. So the level of
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: engagement of that person in his or her profession is
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: too low, and it's almost like those graduates need to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: be retrained afterwards on entrepreneurship, on all these other things.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: You can compare the student to a Chinese students. I'm
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: very sorry because I teach in China, I've tod in America,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: taught in Brazil and many other places. So this is
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: the problem that the Ninegerian educational system has to be reject.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: There are some people that don't need to be Einstein's
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: of this world world who are very good in doing
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: things with their hands. They are craftsmen. There are people
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: who are good in weaving, they are people who are
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: good in tailoring. But but then their talents may lay.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Latents will never become a capital lizon because they need
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: another thing, capital capital. If I were emperor of this country,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I will take all of those people, send them to
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: retraining for three months six months, and then use money
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: that we are borrowing, all this money being borrowed from
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: other countries, from the World Bank, from here and there,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: and put in the bank to support enterprise. They will
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: first common gets maybe two million narra to try that business.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: If they succeed, then they are graduating upwards they can
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: get five million and so forth. We have the same
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: in America. We call that small business innovative support programs,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: both in research and in enterprise. Remember, talent is not
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: the issue. Everybody has talent of some phone, but discovery
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: of that talent is the issue, and not tream of
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: that talent. To find opportunities to thrive is even more important.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: From what you've explained, the pyramid, the structure structure. Yes,
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: now we are going to have a case whereby some
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: people who are not able to get into universities can attend,
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: the technical colleges can attend the polytechniques, which by design,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: those schools were originally designed to get one the things
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: you have mentioned, Yes, we can't tell they are not
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: doing that.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: They are not doing that, and they have examples where
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: they can learn from. That's the German system. I would
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: have expected if anybody wants to change this country, they
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: might say things like, oh, Germany is socioeconomically different from Nigeria.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Not much. We have borrowed things from everywhere else. I'm
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: wearing a suit. This is not a Mandingle dress style.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: We borrow things from other countries. But so that's what happens,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: and that's what they all should be. So Germany is
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: a place where that works out very well. Japan can
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: be argued to be too different from our They have
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: that Bushidia culture of the past, so they are very
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: directed and all that. But yes, I see that you
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: are very interested in education. So what needs to happen
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: to Nigerian education is entireparnworship in the universities and technical colleges.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Every primary and secondary school should own a farm or
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: a carpentry shop. I've already written that up. That's what
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I wrote up and gave to Governordom of a Quaimum State.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I have a book this tick on those initiatives. You understand.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: So if a primary school, for example, would have a farm,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: and a lot of them are in rural areas, it
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: would have a farm and the students after school walk
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: there and generate income for that primary school. You see
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: what could happen to that school, all the students who
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: cannot afford to.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: Eat with it, seeing the students who work for the school.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: The students would work in the school firm. The school
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: firm is actually an enterprise that part of their curriculum
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: practicals and also serves the economy of the school. In
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: this sense, I've worked this up by a lot of
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: economic things in it, and Parents Teachers Association would get involved,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: so those students who can don't eat three square mills
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: a day with it from them.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: I think it's still likely boils down to the quality
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: of individuals that we as people, because we've seen cases
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: where that practice. But the school teachers and the masters
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: and administresses, it's the food, and it still doesn't do
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: enforce enforced discipline. Why yeah, for enforced discipline? Why are
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: the Chinese and the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese were devastated by
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: the War of the nineteen sixties, but if you go
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: to Vietnam today, you'll be shocked. If you go to Botsuana,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: I dealt with the villagers and Botswana when I was there.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: I had to deal with them because that's the national University.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: The chiefs and all that they called village is their
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: cattle posts. And the discipline has to be enforced at
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: the risk of annoying some people.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: If the Idia album administration was there was thrived, a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: lot of the ideas and crisis that you have in
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Nigeria today would not exist. Remember there was a time
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: when I was in secondary school in this country. People
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: would not line up to enter the bus. Are they
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: not lining up today? You see? That started with Idiabo, Yes,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and many other things that I can cite right. So
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: there is no possibility of improving any society if that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: suitize is not disciplined.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: I feel that Nigeria's from the mental problem.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: That's Nigeria's fundamental problem. Non enforcement of discipline before any
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: country can do well. And I like to say this
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: on television everywhere. There are six elements that define a country.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: If that country does well on these six elements, then
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: it can compete. It will be among the top ones.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: One regulations. Okay, let's peak them one by one. The regulations.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Does Nigeria have good regulations? Yes, most of the time. Yes,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the National Assembly they copy the US and compete everywhere.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: There are some of them. It is not the regulations
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: that they don't have. Is the next one. Policies that
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: derive from the regulations and those policies. Because you cannot
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: pray the country with just regulations two legalies in language,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: so you have to create policies that derive from the regulations.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: So when you the policies policy on agriculture, policy, on
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: education policy, on energy policy, on help many of those
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: other factors. So good policies, Okay. The third one market incentives.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the people of that country, industry and so forth
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: may not want there are no incentives for them to comply, right,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: so you create market incentives. For example, if some folks
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: are building a car in a bar, or building cars
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: in a bar, and I think that these cars are
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: reasonably good, do you know what I would do as
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: market incentives as the president of this country or governor
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: of any state. All cars supplied to the ministries in
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: this state.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: Should come from there to boost local economy.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I turn around and put a lot
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: of interests and many many things, taxing foreign cars that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: come in to discuss who can move to the local
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: to the government must be the first buyer of what
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: is produced in the country. But here they won't do that.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: You don't because those legislators whould like to drive their
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: messages benz may back, yes, made back and all that composity,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: no humility. Okay, So market incentives. I'm just giving you
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: that as an example, isn't it? There are many others
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: I can give you, Okay, Now, So the third one
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: is education, research and monitoring, because that's how you're going
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: to generate data. If you want to build a road
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: from Legos to a Quibum, who did the environmental impact analysis?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Who did all that? Isn't it that there's got to
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: be research, monitoring and all that. If you don't have
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: systems here, why should we go and bring Germans to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: do it? As Jolley's beggar or any of this. So
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: a country must be able to generate data through research,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: monitoring and so forth. Why because planning must be based
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: on facts. If you do not know that there are
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: seven million people in a Quibum state, how are you
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: going to design these schools? Because you are going to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: use a percentage of how many children they are likely
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: to have to size the schools and not the number
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: of schools and project how many teachers are needed in
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: ten years. So a real country must have data generation capacity, right.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: It could be through the schools, will be through the agencies.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: It would be too many in those agencies. When do
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: people go to work? Do they go to work at
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: ten and live at one pm and go and have
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: sister and all that without being serious about generating the data.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: You know that there are these decadens exist in those
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: agencies in decadence.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Who is the head? I'll dismiss everybody that is head.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I've dismissed many deputy vision cellers before. I'm no nonsense
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: when it comes to those things. Eventually, but let me
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: say that I have enumerated for so far right enforcement
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: for what you're just talking about enforcement? What is they need?
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Having regulations and policies that you don't enforce. Somebody is
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: going to go speell oil for more than forty fifty
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: years there's been gas flaring. Senators come to America and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: meet with me Senate Committee on Environment and Gas Flaring.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: They spend two weeks with me. We design everything. They
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: come back they don't want to enforce because they are
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: taking bribes. Right, I'm not suggesting this, I'm aware of this. Right,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: So enforcement capacity. And then the next one is international
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: liaison because matters of trade, matters of agreements, matters of peace,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: freedom of movement, diplomacy requires international collaboration. So countries that,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: for example, give you an example, Okay, we know that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Legos has bad a pollution too bad? Okay, Now could
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: to know, okay, it's there and could to know it's
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: just on the other side of Legos, isn't it? So
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: if could you know wants to clean up its air
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: and spends its national budget cleaning up it, deciding on
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: siding of industries, what do you think is going to
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: happen if they spend that money and clean up good
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: to know and Legos is still like that, every pollutant
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: would move from Legos. So sometimes it is necessary to
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: have international agreements across countries. So these see, these six
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: things are what defined This is how Nigeria will progress
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: if it wants to.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: You know, from from the things you'd be saying, I
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: can't see that you have so much passion for NAT.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I have to I was born here and I was
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: not sured here and center a broad so I have
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: to contribute. I am the product of so many places.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: And now back to the pyramid structure. Yes, it is
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: a direct question. Yes, if you have a factory, yes,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: where you need.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Engineers, Yes, someone coming to apply for a role as
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: a master's degree order mechanical engineers some sorts. Yes, and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: someone went to one of the technical schools. Yes, it
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: may not have a master's, but they lend the rudiments.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Which of them would you consider employment?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I would employ the one who has lented the rudiments
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: and can perform, because employment of the future will not
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: be dependent on degrees, will not be based on it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: We are now in the food in dorsal revolution, in
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: which what you know and can do will be more
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: important than the degree that you display. Its already started.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: So when you have a graduate that comes out of
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: ute core and does not arm himself or herself with skills,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: that's very detrimental to that graduate. And I can tell
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: you that the only place you can get away with
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: degrees without excessive scrutiny other than annual reports a number
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: of papers you write in academ When it gets to
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: the industrial sector, they will take a look at what
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: have been your products, what are the patterns? What product
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: have you helped this company to develop? Evaluate and market.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: So this is why some countries are getting ahead of Nigeria.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Our name them Morocco, Egypt because a small country in
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: East Africa Rwanda wonder definitely Kinga Mauritius Africa. Senegal is
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: a country that is much more in the intellectual sector
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: more than the production sec They are intellectual because they've
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: carried the candle for African intellectual renaissance right from the
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: first president, Leopool Sedah, who was actually Cabinet memby in
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: France as well. So Senegal, yes, it will proceed. Bodies now,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: it's not at the level of those other five have
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: been very embraced by Kenya.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: Do you really think.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: There can't be a revolutional leader in Nigeria that can
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: transform this nation for what it is. We look at
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: the likes of the man who transforms Singapore kind and
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: at some point it was considered a dictator even coming
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: from Ghana was considered the ditated it is now some
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: Ghanians all that review about that view of him. Yes,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: do you think there is one that can move Nigeria?
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Because we can see clearly that it's not just the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: governmentitor so the people, the structure, the discipline.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: And many things.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: Do you think there can't be a leader that can
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: bring this kind of transformation that Nigeria needs that will
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: not be considered addictator.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I will be very honest with you on this because
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: perhaps I'm not expected to respond like I'm going to
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: respond now, and I'm going to use examples. If China
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: had not been communists, and I'm not a supporter of communism,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: let me be very clear a that otherwise I would
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: have gone to China at that time, I would not
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: have into America. But Chinese trend today is a derivative
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: of the communist system that enforced discipline and made sure
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: that the ethics in society stay strong. There is no
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: way of bringing a country of more than one billion
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: people to what it is today without having a very
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: systematic set of rules that make people comply with certain
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: norms and behavior of society in terms of corruption. Don't
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: you think what would have happened if China had the
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: scale of corruption that Nigeria has today, You wouldn't even
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: have had a China. They would have been breakaway republics
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: fighting themselves and all that. It happened in India too,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: So India by necessity had to add one child policy.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: So would that be possible in Nigeria? Wouldn't they be
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: religious overturons if the country wanted to deal with the
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: bligeoning population of people who have no skills, who have
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: none of those things. You cannot sustainably developed a country
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: without four factors. Sustainable development has four pillars, economic development,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: without which jobs would be scares.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: And the country cannot be stable.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: So economic development is the first pillar of sustainable development.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: The next one population management. Population growth can aid up
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: any improvement within the country if there is not checked.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: So because you say Nigeria is a giant of Africa,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: but that's giant in grous terms, not in pa coppy terms. Yeah,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: so income capita is more important than the gross amount.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, So population management, I'm not
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: saying population management saying that you take people here and
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: go put there and do all that, but doing population
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: planning and even interest in that in ten years, what
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: will be the population of this state? How many schools
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: will we need those kinds of things, So population management,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: how many farms do we need it in this state?
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: What is the productivity pay unit of land? If that
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: state is producing cassava, if the state is producing coco
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: or ground knots and so forth. So all those factors
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: must common. The third one is social equity. In other words,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: you take a look, and that was the problem in
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: the Niger Delta, right. So social equity means equity in
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: the sharing of sources. If rich people take everything and
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: pile upon themselves and the majority of the population can
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: barely eat three squaremus today, that is going to eventually
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: lead to crisis, violence and all that. And then finally,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: environmental stea watchhip, because in Africa, livelihood is tied to
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: environmental STEA watchhip. If you ignore that, if you let
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: all the mangrove swarms in the Niger Delta have all spillages,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: where will the fishermen have this fish? And if you
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: let all the ratification destroy the Middle Belt and the
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: Northan fringes of the Sahel in Nigeria, where will be
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: the cattle grazing places. So Nigeria has huge challenges. And
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: you ask a very important question. I think the was
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: do you think the system is sustainable? So the system
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: in Nigeria, Nigeria has taken capitalism as the economic system,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: not communism. But capitalism requires vigilance that Nigeria does not
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: have so all the because capitalism allows some level of
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: personal freedom, much more than the communist strong system. Even
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: the talkie you see that has moved today to more liberalism.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like that before. Remember that took cause there, Okay,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: And so it seems to me, and this is my
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: true belief that countries like in Nigeria need iron hands
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: initially to enforce discipline before it can slowly liberalize. You understand,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: you cannot liberalize without discipline, so you have to first
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: enforce it. You have to enforce discipline in the thinking
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: of the people, in respect for rules. Okay, Look, I'm
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: going to give you example that I saw. I saw
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: somebody messing up with the electric pole. You know, those
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: lights going to try to bend it. The light in
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: the media, Yes, I saw them. I saw it in Legos.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: The person was going to take the solar light battery
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: that is put in those things. So I asked him,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: why are you doing that? I told my driver in
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Legos to stop. I came out and challenging. I told him,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: why are you doing that? This is public property?
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: His response, why are you worried? Is this yours? It's
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: not yours, it is government. So this fellow does not
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: see himself as part of the social system. Government is
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: an entity from whom he can steal things. They say,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: So in China, let anybody try that, you know what
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: would happen. There will be you up there and drag
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: you to the police station next door. And the police
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: is everywhere anyway, So it's not going to be that
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: you can do such things. So social consciousness and respect
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: for laws, and respect for community laws, and not seeing
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: themselves as part of society and not liches on society
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: by even those who have been elected. This is the problem.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: These are issues that must be dealt with improve Nigeria.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: How can that be done? And Nigeria had created what
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: did their public complaints? Burrow and all these things? Are
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: they working? Do they have programs? Do they have TV
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: programs like this one you're recording now? How many times
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: do you see debates on television in Nigeria that are
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: on social consciousness? All those debates are about political office holding.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: They are not about social consciousness, and they construct that
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: is Nigeria. It's about who will be governor who is fighting.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: Do you think that the system is deliberately keeping people ignorant?
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: I am controllable and beatable like that.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: You know the thing that really bothers me. But you
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: are forcing me to talk more about Nigeria and I
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: cannot help but respond. You know the fruit sellers revolution
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: in North Africa, It's not possible in present day Nigeria.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: The fruit sellers revolution. You remember it with those who
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: sell fruits in Lydia and Teenigi, You and all that
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: studied the Arab revolution. All right. You are also aware
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: that in Tanzania just two months ago, the youth revolted
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: a big thing. You know of Bangladesh, yes, you know
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: of many other places. Do you think that it is
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: possible in Nigeria? No? For two reasons, okay. Number one,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Nigeria is given to psychophancy. When a society fails, it's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: usually not that you you have the barons spoiling things.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: The followers too Injuria's problem is a problem of the
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: leaders and the followership combined. Right, So why is it
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: so easy to buy somebody's opinion with a bag of
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: salt and Nigerians the pooresty cap with plate of rice
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: and many many other things like that. Now you can't
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: do that in some countries. They tried that in Tangier,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: Uganda and everywhere else. The people rejected it, you understand.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: Because they're not poor.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: They are poor, They are poorer than Nigerians.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: Why do they reject it?
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Because the social system has enforced certain things, has enforced
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: that discipline and social consciousness. The chiefs still have power
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and shame is something they want to run away from,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: you understand. But in Nigeria it's no longer like that.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: It is the rulership of the buffoons. And I have
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: to tell you that that this is my thinking. So
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: take a look at the local government areas and I
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: track Nigerian circumstances with interest. Now you tell me the
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: state governments get allocation right from the feral government, from
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: the feral resource and directly the local governments do. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: they have had. It's just that they the governors. No,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: they didn't stop the governors come and they had the money. Yeah,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: the governors. That's illegal constitutionally and otherwise, so they took
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: the money. Now, don't you think we have been talking
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: about improving schools that when a local government area like
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: in Aquaimum State, I know, they approximate amount two hundred million.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: So they get this money and they get two hundred million,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: and the number of things they have to do very
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: very small because you have overlapping jurisdictions because the states
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: is also doing that, so the local government is to
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: do that. Don't you think if they didn't take this
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: money and share among dunce that that place would improve.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: They would have a small factory, they would have a
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: social services program, they would make sure the analysis in
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: the dispensaries and places like that, and the equality of
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: life of those people would improve in that local government.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Isn't that what they are doing in China and Vietnam
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: and all those places I go? Isn't that what they
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: are doing what they're doing in even in Brazil. Brazil
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: has a population comparable to Niger, and they are doing
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: much better because it is very difficult to cheat in Brazil.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Their system is very strong, although it's not communists and
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: their social consciousness is very high in Brazil, my mom
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: is but yeah, so that's what needs to happen. And
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: you see what you're doing now is the greatest contribution
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: to reformation of Nigeria, because if these things are not
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: talked about, how can you begin to change things?
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Ah.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: Most Nigerian youth are more interested in what the video
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: is wearing. AH and big brother Nigeria. It never used
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: to be like this. I was a young students union
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: leader during the era of Alma's Goal. I just left
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: shortly after a limas Go. Students were very conscious of
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: the events. We will pose Barbangada a whole lot, and
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: we pose a lot of us people a lot. There
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: were strikes in universes until they were first to make
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: certain amends. But it's no longer like that in Nigeria.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: The students are placed. But let's hope that a new
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: set of youth will come out to rule Nigeria. Nigeria
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: has too many old people in the governance system. Unfortunately.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that h is the fact. It's not
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: of utility, but you need a mix. Look at the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: presidents of other countries, look at both Sowanna that I've
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: just talked to about. Look at Obama when it became president. Yes,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: leadership is not the preserve of old folks. Two Christy, Yes,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: thank you. Yes.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: So you you are obviously from the things with this,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: because we have very strong concerns about yes, and you
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: believe that the climates who currently have is not conducive
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: for the transformation we should see as a people.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: Uh, the climate that there is UH and the fact
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: that UH diversity is the tree diversity of thought, yes,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: is decreasing rather than increasing. How do you know that
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: coalitions coalitions that collapsing into a single party. All right,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: so you and I know that that collapsing into a
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: single party is not as a result of sharing of
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: concepts and mentalities and so forth. In not ideology. I
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: didn't want to use the word ideology. Not ideology, But
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: it's like factions coming to converge on the meal. I understand.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: So why should I join a party and I don't.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: My identity is different. You understand my identity, my ideology
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: and all that. Whereas in other countries people converge on
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: the basis of ideology of ideology, they may form a consortium.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: You understand, Yes, But that's a consortium of parties to win,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: but not all of the parties collapsing into one. You
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: know that in Germany and Netherlands you see sometimes af
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: I Right party you know, combines under certain terms. But
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: this is not so. This is much more of individuals
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: leaving those parties and converging because they want to win
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: by all costs. They want to be the nominee of
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: the party. You see people and there are examples in Nigeria,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: and one who studies political history of different countries, for
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: as a habit Alhagi Remy. Yes, did you see him
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: collapse his party and run away an entire n the
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: end of that time? Yes, a menu Cano did he
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: do that? He stood by his thinking and he's thinking
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: in most cases.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 4: We tried many times before he find before he died.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: To be president, Yes, to be president, not to go
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: to another party and take all his principles. And yes,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: he was pp Remy Amy. And the other one there
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: was another one from the northeast. He was Canonry. He
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: was also like him.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 4: You don't want to.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: He was also like him and of your Obviously, a
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: Menucano had many credentials for being good to people of
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: lower classes. So when you die, it will not be
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: because you collapse. The are principles that people will remember you.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: People will remember you for your stealing contributions to society
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: and for maintaining your integrity when you had inducements not
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: to So all of us are very interested in legacies,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: because if you look at it, an average person is
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: going to live in Ninegeria, seventy years or eight years old.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: That's a very short time question. And so you will
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: be succeeded by your legacy of many centuries. And most
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: people just come as passengers on this head and don't
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: leave much behind.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: It's been an amazing time with you, and I believe
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: that this composition this morning is such that it's going
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: to go a very long way, not just bringing people
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: into awareness then, but also as a tool that will
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: be used to be consulted.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: And we want to improve this country.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: We have a community millions of people across social media,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: and one of the things we're trying to do is
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: to deconstruct to make intellectual conversations the business for which
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: will be celebrated again, not the funny things going around.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: And you've spoken to the vision of this podcast in
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: more excellent way than I can count, and I want
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: to especially thank you, thank you particularly for coming despite
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: your very busy shadow.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: I start a joy to have you.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I'm very impressed by the quality
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: of the questions and the discussion, and quite frankly, I
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: did not know that such a program exists in Nigeria,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: so I'm pleasantly surprised, Thank you, and will continue the conversation.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Many more things that we would like to
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: discuss with you. Thank you, thank you so thank you.