Latest / The Fourcast / Can Rachel Reeves grow the economy?

Transcript

Can Rachel Reeves grow the economy? · The Fourcast

• 0:00
  This time last year the chancellor said this was a one
• 0:02
  off, that she wasn't gonna come back to us with another massive
• 0:05
  tax raising budget. Are you really saying that in
• 0:07
  the last nine months everything has changed?
• 0:10
  You're. Sort of encouraging me gently to
• 0:12
  get into speculation about the budget and I I realise.
• 0:15
  I mean, she she's relatively landed that it's gonna be a
• 0:17
  tough. Budget, yeah, but you know, we,
• 0:19
  we know as I say, the global situation is difficult.
• 0:22
  We have the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the 1st.
• 0:25
  But what was the number? And look, we don't what was the?
• 0:27
  Number no, no, not look, it's. About 1.21 point, 3% if you're.
• 0:30
  Lucky, we know we want to go further.
• 0:32
  That's not good. Hello and welcome to the
• 0:38
  forecast from Labour Party conference in Liverpool.
• 0:42
  Well, yesterday Keir Starmer unleashed his big attack on
• 0:45
  reform, accusing their policies but not the people of being
• 0:49
  racist. Today it is 2 big themes, the
• 0:53
  economy and Home Affairs, which we expect to be a lot to do with
• 0:57
  immigration. But with me today, the new Chief
• 1:00
  Secretary to the Treasury, James Murray.
• 1:04
  We've heard a lot today from Rachel Rees about how the world
• 1:07
  has changed and and we assume this to be the build up to why
• 1:11
  they need to be tax rises in the autumn.
• 1:14
  I mean, how? How has the world changed in a
• 1:17
  unforeseeable way in the last few months?
• 1:20
  Well, I think it's just self evidently the case that the
• 1:22
  world is more unpredictable. There's more instability.
• 1:26
  There's obviously a lot of stuff going on with global trade in
• 1:29
  the world that is different than I think people might have
• 1:31
  expected a few years ago. And actually, if you look at,
• 1:34
  for instance, what's happening with gilt, gilt yields and the
• 1:36
  upward pressure on borrowing costs around the world, what
• 1:39
  that underlines for me is how important it is that we have our
• 1:43
  fiscal rules in the UK, that we have stable public finances.
• 1:47
  Because actually having that tight grip on public spending
• 1:50
  and here in the UK is a key way to bring down inflation and
• 1:53
  bring down the cost of borrowing in the UK.
• 1:55
  So in a way, the fact that the world has changed, the fact that
• 1:58
  it's instability around the world makes it even more
• 2:00
  important that we provide that stability and those firm fiscal
• 2:03
  rules here in in the UK. But I'm not talking about what
• 2:06
  was foreseeable a few years ago. I'm talking about what was
• 2:08
  foreseeable this time last year. You know, we knew that Trump was
• 2:12
  going to be around, that we're going to be trade wars.
• 2:14
  There's been a war in Gaza for a long time.
• 2:16
  And the war in Ukraine, you know, wasn't all of the
• 2:21
  unstability, instability that we see now entirely predictable?
• 2:26
  Well, I think that when you look back in retrospect, it's much
• 2:29
  easier than seeing it from the other side.
• 2:31
  And I think that the, the combination of different sources
• 2:34
  of instability and insecurity around the world, I think mean
• 2:38
  that the world is a less stable place and there is more
• 2:41
  instability. And as I said, that has an
• 2:42
  impact on Britain. Like we, we, we are subject to
• 2:45
  global pressures. And the question is not can we
• 2:48
  wish them away? Because obviously we can't.
• 2:50
  It's how do we respond as a government?
• 2:52
  And that's what Rachel set out, I mean.
• 2:53
  It's, it's the old sort of, you know, when, when the facts
• 2:55
  change, you know, you know, I, I change my mind as well, isn't
• 2:58
  it? And I suppose what what that
• 3:00
  means is we're looking at a tax raising budget.
• 3:03
  Obviously, you know, we're not going to get anything in terms
• 3:07
  of detail, you know, from you today in the same way we haven't
• 3:10
  from the chancellor. But but this time last year the
• 3:15
  Chancellor said this was a one off, you know, that she wasn't
• 3:18
  going to come back to us with another massive tax raising
• 3:21
  budget. Are you really saying that in
• 3:23
  the last nine months everything has changed?
• 3:26
  Well, like you're, you're, you're sort of encouraging me
• 3:29
  gently to get into speculation about the budget and I, I
• 3:32
  realise. I mean, she she's relatively
• 3:34
  landed that it's going to be a tough.
• 3:35
  Budget, yeah, but you know, we, we know as I say, the global
• 3:38
  situation is difficult and we're going to have to respond to that
• 3:41
  and that's why it's more important than ever that we
• 3:43
  stick to our fiscal rules and that we have that stability in
• 3:46
  the public finances. But look, a big part of the
• 3:48
  budget which which we don't talk about as much to be to be frank
• 3:51
  in in media interviews and you know, I can understand why you
• 3:54
  ask questions that you do. But a big part of the budget we
• 3:56
  don't talk about is why what we're doing to boost growth and
• 3:59
  why the investment that we announced in the budget last
• 4:02
  year is they're important to that growth, why the planning
• 4:04
  changes that we made are so important to getting Britain
• 4:06
  building. Why all?
• 4:07
  That we don't talk about growth as much.
• 4:08
  I mean, this time last year let's talk about growth.
• 4:10
  It was all about growth, about growth and growth is still
• 4:12
  around 1% and that's. We had the fastest, we have the
• 4:15
  fastest growing. Terms you want.
• 4:16
  To talk about it in global terms, we have the fastest
• 4:18
  growing economy in the G7 in the 1st.
• 4:20
  Yeah, but what was the number? And look, we don't what was the
• 4:22
  number? No.
• 4:22
  No, no, not. Look, we want to.
• 4:23
  We want to get, we want to go. Further, fastest growth in G7
• 4:26
  sounds good, but what was the? Actual growth, well, we're
• 4:28
  similar. Is it by the end of the year?
• 4:29
  Because we know that like. About 1.21 point 3% if you're
• 4:33
  lucky, but look the. Point is, we know we want to go
• 4:35
  further, right? Yeah.
• 4:36
  I'm not going to say for a second.
• 4:37
  Well. That's not good.
• 4:38
  As I'm not going to say for a second that we're happy with
• 4:40
  where growth is. We want it to go.
• 4:42
  We want growth to be higher, we want it to go further and faster
• 4:45
  and that's what drives us. What?
• 4:46
  Do you think is a reasonable expectation for growth for a
• 4:49
  government that really wants growth?
• 4:50
  Well, as high as we can get it. I mean, we want, I'm not going
• 4:53
  to say 2%. 3%. I can see what you're tempting
• 4:56
  me to do here, but I'm not going to set a target on that because
• 4:59
  we want to go at growth with all possible avenues and that's why.
• 5:03
  So look, number one, we know that investment has been too low
• 5:06
  in Britain for the last 14 years under the previous government.
• 5:09
  That's why if you look at what happened in the budget last
• 5:11
  year, massive increase in investment, £120 billion of
• 5:15
  extra investment from the public sector in in energy and housing
• 5:19
  and transport over the course of this Parliament.
• 5:21
  That then brings in a lot of private sector investment.
• 5:23
  Look at the 150 billion announced in the US that they're
• 5:26
  going to be investing in Britain as well.
• 5:28
  So that investment is a crucial part to getting economic growth
• 5:31
  going along with the reform and planning system is the best
• 5:34
  example of that. But, but what we know is that
• 5:36
  Despite that growth, and this is modest, you're going to be
• 5:40
  looking at another tax raising budget now.
• 5:43
  Now, last time around you, you did a budget that gave you £10
• 5:47
  billion of fiscal headroom and it turned out that wasn't
• 5:50
  enough. If you do the same this year and
• 5:53
  create another £10 billion of fiscal headroom, you're going to
• 5:56
  have another 12 months of speculation about the next tax
• 5:59
  raising budget. So you're going to have to
• 6:02
  surely create a lot more headroom this time than last
• 6:05
  time. Well, one thing I've learnt in,
• 6:07
  you know, a year and a bit of being a government minister in
• 6:10
  the Treasury is that it's very hard to dampen speculation about
• 6:13
  the budget. And I think as soon as you get
• 6:15
  through 1 fiscal event, almost literally the same day people
• 6:19
  start speculating about the next one.
• 6:21
  So I think that's. Speculation.
• 6:22
  I mean, you know, the, the more, more headroom means you take
• 6:25
  away that feeling that it's not big enough, it's too tight.
• 6:28
  They're going to be coming back forward.
• 6:29
  It, it, it, it, it, it depends where the OBR forecast comes in.
• 6:32
  It depends what the analysis that is by the Treasury, depends
• 6:36
  what, what measures the chancellor announces on the
• 6:38
  Budget day. You know, there's a lot of
• 6:40
  factors in play there before we get to the the final
• 6:42
  announcements in the Budget this year.
• 6:44
  But you know, what we need to do is make sure, well, the
• 6:47
  chancellor will make sure she does, is stick to the fiscal
• 6:49
  rules because you've seen every turn that's been so important
• 6:51
  for her and for the economy. Is that, well, that's the other
• 6:53
  thing a lot of people question though, isn't it, that you said
• 6:55
  the world has changed and that was your perfect opportunity to
• 6:58
  say, so we need to change in a big way, not just by raising
• 7:02
  taxes, but by looking at the fiscal rules.
• 7:04
  And you you missed the. Chance I do that I disagree
• 7:07
  because I think the instability in the world that makes our
• 7:10
  fiscal rules even more important.
• 7:12
  If you've got the instability and insecurity globally and
• 7:15
  that's how it has an impact on our economy in the UK, it makes
• 7:18
  it even more important that we've got a tight grip on public
• 7:21
  spending and still see very hydraulical rules.
• 7:23
  So but the fiscal rules say that day-to-day spending has to be
• 7:26
  paid for through tax receipts and and that when you borrow to
• 7:30
  invest, debt has to be falling as a proportion of GDP.
• 7:33
  And that's and and those fiscal rules are even more important
• 7:36
  now. I think you know, it is, it is
• 7:37
  worth considering, you know, what's the alternative?
• 7:40
  Because if you start tearing up fiscal rules, if you don't meet
• 7:43
  the fiscal rules, if you lose control of the economy, you
• 7:46
  know, we saw what happened 3 odd years ago with Liz Trust.
• 7:49
  That's not the only option, is it?
• 7:50
  Well, no, the the choice isn't Liz trust or or where we.
• 7:53
  Are we, we also know that if you look at the situation that we
• 7:57
  inherited with, with debt being around 100% of GDP, that's a lot
• 8:01
  higher than it was in say 2010 in, in, in the UK, In the UK, it
• 8:05
  was about 65% of GDP went up to around 100% over the course of
• 8:09
  the Conservatives being in office.
• 8:11
  If you compare us to Germany, Germany is around 65% of GDP
• 8:15
  actually. So we've got a lot higher level
• 8:17
  of debt to GDP ratio. And if you look at that
• 8:20
  situation and then you look at what's happening, as I said with
• 8:22
  the global forces on, on borrowing costs, that's what
• 8:26
  means that the fiscal rules are even more important than ever to
• 8:29
  make clear to the markets, to make clear to, to everyone
• 8:32
  looking at the British economy that we have rules about paying
• 8:36
  our way, about living within our means, about bringing debt down
• 8:40
  and and then we're going to stick by them.
• 8:41
  But you you've tied yourselves in is what I suppose what I'm
• 8:43
  saying is this very strict sort of straight jackets with your
• 8:49
  manifesto pledges on income tax, VAT and National Insurance.
• 8:53
  And and what that leaves you with is ways to get rounded.
• 8:58
  Now you now last year you got rounded by raising National
• 9:01
  Insurance on employers. You're going to have to do other
• 9:05
  ways of getting around those pledges in this budget, aren't
• 9:08
  you? And, and, and you know, don't
• 9:10
  you think a bit of candor with the voters about the situation
• 9:14
  we're in and what that might mean would be a good thing?
• 9:17
  I mean, it is perfectly possible that you will raise more in
• 9:21
  income tax by freezing thresholds.
• 9:23
  It's perfectly possible that you could take away some of the 0
• 9:25
  rating on VAT goods. You would still technically
• 9:30
  stick within your pledges, but you would be getting more in
• 9:34
  those main taxes. Let's remember why we had that
• 9:37
  pledge in our manifesto. And the reason why is because
• 9:40
  people were feeling the squeeze of cost of living crisis under
• 9:43
  the Conservatives. So we wanted to go into the
• 9:45
  election with a really clear promise to people, which yes, it
• 9:49
  means that it limits options and what you can do in other places,
• 9:52
  but a really clear pledge to people that we will take this
• 9:55
  really seriously in keeping taxes for working people as low
• 9:58
  as we possibly can. And that's.
• 9:59
  A guiding principle. Isn't it partly why people find
• 10:03
  a big trust problem with the established parties?
• 10:05
  That despite your pledge and despite you technically sticking
• 10:09
  to your pledge, you take a tax measure that ends up costing
• 10:14
  people in real terms? It does end up being paid by
• 10:18
  real people and whatever you do in the autumn will also be paid
• 10:21
  for by ordinary working people. Well, let's look at one of the
• 10:25
  bigger. Taxes.
• 10:26
  So what I mean is you can say we won't tax.
• 10:28
  Worker, I can do that. I can approach that question by
• 10:31
  looking at one of the key choices we made in the budget
• 10:34
  last year around employer National Insurance
• 10:36
  contributions. And you know, that was one of
• 10:39
  the hardest decisions we took out of the budget.
• 10:40
  We knew it would have impact on businesses in terms of them
• 10:43
  having to to to pay more tax. You know, we weren't naive about
• 10:46
  that. That was why it was such a
• 10:47
  difficult decision to take. But the reason why we took that
• 10:50
  decision was to increase investment in the NHS.
• 10:54
  And actually, you know, what people want, what people voted
• 10:56
  for us to do is yes, to bring stability to the economy and the
• 10:59
  public finances, but also to get public services back on their
• 11:03
  feet. And one of the key services that
• 11:06
  we need to make sure is working is the NHS, not just for
• 11:08
  individuals and their families, but also for the economy,
• 11:11
  because when you have record numbers of people who are
• 11:13
  economically inactive because of ill health, that's bad for
• 11:16
  economic growth as well. The trouble is you're now
• 11:18
  swimming in an environment in which the detail and a lot of
• 11:22
  the metrics, they, they don't seem to have an impact on
• 11:26
  political decisions. You know, the, the polls right
• 11:28
  now are terrible for Labour because you've had this collapse
• 11:31
  in the Conservative vote. It's all gone to reform.
• 11:34
  And if there was an election tomorrow, it would be a disaster
• 11:36
  for your, for your. Party, we're just getting
• 11:39
  started on our on our plan. We're just getting started with
• 11:41
  all the investments that we've agreed to and we've made
• 11:44
  possible through our fiscal rules and people will start to
• 11:47
  see the benefit of that, whether that's in new homes, in new
• 11:49
  transport and the energy infrastructure, of course the
• 11:51
  importance of defence as well, People will start to see the
• 11:54
  benefits of that and actually the biggest antidote it's
• 11:57
  looking like. It's too big though.
• 11:58
  The biggest well, we're about what just over a year into a
• 12:01
  into what could be up to A5 year parliament, you know, and I
• 12:03
  think the right thing to do is to take the right long term
• 12:06
  decisions and say, look, this is a plan that will take over this
• 12:09
  parliament, you know, probably longer than a parliament to
• 12:11
  deliver because it's a real. But do you, do you still think
• 12:14
  we live in a world in which if you, if you do improve certain
• 12:18
  metrics, the electorate will come round or we passed that we
• 12:23
  were this sort of new world where reform can pretty much say
• 12:26
  anything and they're getting support.
• 12:29
  I think I don't really agree with you, just call them certain
• 12:34
  metrics. I think when you're talking
• 12:35
  about how much money people have in their pockets, how much do
• 12:39
  it's a lot. For people to feel this when you
• 12:40
  talk about. How people struggle to make ends
• 12:43
  meet. When you talk about people
• 12:44
  seeing the cost of energy bills, when you talk about people not
• 12:46
  being able to get a doctor's appointment, that's not just a
• 12:49
  metric, that's people's lives. That's People's Daily lives and
• 12:52
  actually what they want, the government.
• 12:53
  To do but even if you bring £300 off the gas bill.
• 12:56
  Incredible long term solutions to make people better off and to
• 12:59
  make life easier for. People, that's my point, that
• 13:00
  even if you do get energy bills down by £300 is, you know, do
• 13:05
  you really think that is enough to change the dial in a world in
• 13:09
  which British politics seems to be on its head?
• 13:10
  Well, I think people, people are, the British people are
• 13:13
  fundamentally, you know, they, they, they want the government
• 13:17
  to do what they say they're going to do and then they will
• 13:19
  judge them at the end of the Parliament, right.
• 13:21
  Are you sure that that's still the way that politics works?
• 13:23
  That's that's what I'm saying. Well, I think if people can feel
• 13:25
  the difference in their lives or they can see we're heading in a
• 13:27
  better direction. You know, I don't think people
• 13:28
  expect us to solve every single problem the country faces in its
• 13:31
  entirety by the end of five years.
• 13:33
  I think people expect us to have made progress and they can see
• 13:35
  the change in their lives. You know, we may well go into
• 13:38
  the next election, say, look, we started let's we want to carry
• 13:40
  on. This is what we want to carry on
• 13:42
  by doing. I think people want to see, you
• 13:44
  know, change they can feel and that we're moving in the right
• 13:47
  directions. And, you know, I wouldn't I, I
• 13:49
  think, you know, when I knock on doors, you know, my local area
• 13:52
  or when I go to other constituencies and, and help out
• 13:55
  there, you know, people talk very much about their daily
• 13:58
  lives, about what impact politics has.
• 14:00
  And actually, let me just add one thing to this, which is I
• 14:03
  don't know if you've seen, we've recently launched the Pride in
• 14:06
  Place program, which is £5 billion / 10 years being
• 14:10
  invested into local areas. One of those projects, well,
• 14:13
  it's, it's a, one of the adjacent projects is Southport
• 14:16
  Pier and about restoring that to its former glory.
• 14:19
  Now, when I've been speaking to people here in Liverpool about
• 14:22
  that, people are saying this is so good, this is brilliant.
• 14:25
  This is actually restoring some pride.
• 14:26
  This is not just talking about, you know, big numbers around,
• 14:29
  you know, the, the debt or, you know, GDP growth or whatever.
• 14:32
  It is sort of figures which people, you know, may struggle
• 14:35
  to connect to their experience in day-to-day life.
• 14:37
  And they're seeing the impact of this investment.
• 14:39
  And they say, right, Southport here, the council's going to
• 14:42
  start repairing it next year. It'll be reopened.
• 14:44
  That'll be jobs, that'll be tourism, A sense of pride in
• 14:46
  their place, you know. So I think that's really
• 14:48
  important for people to feel that tangible difference, I
• 14:49
  mean. I mean, it's interesting you
• 14:51
  still seem to have faith in the project as as was.
• 14:56
  There are people even at conference here who are losing
• 14:58
  it, aren't they? I mean, you know, Andy Burnham's
• 15:00
  out there today speaking at various fringe events, talking
• 15:04
  about the need to tell a better story, the need to connect with
• 15:06
  people, the need to take on reform, you know, kind of in
• 15:09
  their own terms. So I think a good example about
• 15:12
  you say take on reform. So and we've just discussed the
• 15:16
  importance of cost of living and about getting bills down for
• 15:18
  people. I think alongside that there are
• 15:20
  other issues which matter to people, immigration being a key
• 15:23
  1. And I think what people want to
• 15:24
  see on immigration is they want to see the number, the numbers
• 15:28
  of people coming into the country going down and obviously
• 15:31
  the asylum hotels closing and the small boats coming down as
• 15:34
  well. Now what people want, and I
• 15:36
  think, you know, I really believe that strongly in that
• 15:39
  British people have a sense of, of fairness, of, of balance and
• 15:43
  of, you know, they can, they can see what's an effective policy
• 15:45
  and they can see one that isn't going to work.
• 15:46
  And I think when they look at our policy around indefinitely
• 15:49
  germane, where we're saying we're going to extend the length
• 15:51
  of time you have to be here to apply for indefinitely germane.
• 15:54
  And in order to reply for it, you have to have, you know, high
• 15:56
  quality of spoken English. You have to have not claimed
• 16:00
  benefits. You have to have contributed
• 16:02
  taxes to the economy. You have a clean criminal
• 16:04
  record, you know, all of those conditions.
• 16:06
  I think people understand that it's a fair sense of
• 16:08
  contribution. And fair to ask immigrants to be
• 16:11
  better citizens than citizens. I mean, you're, you're asking
• 16:16
  immigrants now to do things that most Britons don't do, like
• 16:19
  volunteering in their community. I.
• 16:20
  Think this is about indefinitely germane rather than citizenship,
• 16:23
  but I think I think being in this country, you know, is a is
• 16:25
  is a privilege and it's something which should be taken
• 16:28
  really seriously and people should make a contribution if.
• 16:31
  British. My dad came here in 1962.
• 16:33
  He's a doctor, still works in the NHS now.
• 16:37
  I think. I think when he was a junior
• 16:38
  doctor, working 60 or 70 hours a week, staying up all night,
• 16:42
  treating drunken, you know, injuries, if you told him, oh,
• 16:49
  you know what, if you want to stay in this country, you've got
• 16:51
  to go and volunteer as well. He might have been a bit
• 16:53
  insulted, but. No, no, no.
• 16:55
  What the the consultation at the moment is about different forms
• 16:57
  of contribution. So I don't want to delve into
• 17:00
  your into your family's face in too much detail.
• 17:03
  But if someone were working, you know, so many hours in public
• 17:06
  service and doing a great job or contributing to our economy, you
• 17:09
  know, that is the kind of contribution we're talking
• 17:11
  about. South contribution can take
• 17:12
  different forms and the consultation will set out the
• 17:15
  details of what we mean by that contribution.
• 17:17
  But the principle here is in order to apply from definitely
• 17:20
  to remain, you should make a contribution.
• 17:23
  Now policy reform came out with a few weeks ago is something
• 17:27
  which, you know, not only did it fall apart within a few minutes
• 17:30
  when people started asking questions about the detail of
• 17:32
  then it was based on dodgy numbers and all that kind.
• 17:33
  Of thing you're branding it racist clearly.
• 17:35
  But but but also, but also that, you know, think about what it
• 17:38
  means. It means that people who are
• 17:40
  living in Britain, who maybe have family here, who have
• 17:42
  contributed to society, work in a business, maybe started a
• 17:45
  business, they would be wrenched out of of Britain like that is a
• 17:48
  totally different thing. And that is way over the line
• 17:51
  into policy, which is immoral and unworkable and we and we
• 17:54
  can't support. I mean, what one of the problems
• 17:56
  you've got, though, on that front is you do now have a lot
• 17:58
  of reform supporters who are saying and are being told by
• 18:02
  their leadership, if you're worried about immigration,
• 18:04
  they're going to call you a racist.
• 18:06
  Well, I think the, the, the policy is what we were talking
• 18:09
  about, you know, in terms of people generally in Britain and
• 18:12
  their concerns about immigration, it's perfectly
• 18:14
  legitimate if people have concerns about immigration, a
• 18:16
  lot of people do. And it's absolutely right for
• 18:18
  the government to do something about that.
• 18:19
  But we want, we want practical, fair, firm and tough solutions,
• 18:23
  but ones that work and ones that are balanced.
• 18:25
  And I think people, you know, people in Britain have an innate
• 18:28
  sense of fairness and people can feel when a policy is landing in
• 18:32
  the right place, which is where ours is going, or when it's
• 18:34
  going too far and it's becoming unworkable and and the wrong
• 18:37
  direction. It's a, it's a bit of a bubble
• 18:39
  of conference, isn't it? I mean you're, you're preaching
• 18:42
  literally to the to the converted I.
• 18:44
  Mean, I don't think they're all journalists there.
• 18:47
  No, obviously. But I mean, when you leave here
• 18:52
  and you're still facing those polls showing how far behind you
• 18:55
  are, how confident are you really going to feel?
• 18:59
  You know, what I've really felt at this conference is an amazing
• 19:02
  spring in people's step. And it's quite interesting in
• 19:04
  that a lot of journalists, I think in the run up to
• 19:06
  conference where, you know, say, oh, I bet this is going to be a
• 19:09
  hard conference and how are people going to feel?
• 19:10
  Well, that's why it's a bubble. I can put I no, but I can put my
• 19:13
  hand. And you know, not every
• 19:14
  conference I've been to in my life has has been a people who
• 19:16
  have had a spring in their step. Far from it.
• 19:18
  You know, there've been some conferences a few years ago
• 19:20
  which are really very difficult for the party.
• 19:22
  But I think at this conference, people understand that being
• 19:24
  government's difficult, they understand that we're not going
• 19:27
  to be popular every day of the week and we're going to do
• 19:29
  things that not everyone likes. And but people can take a step
• 19:32
  back and say, OK, take a step back from the day-to-day news
• 19:34
  cycle and look at what we've done in the first year or so in
• 19:37
  office. Look at what we're going to do
• 19:39
  over the rest of this Parliament and feel confident about it.
• 19:42
  And that's why, you know, I'm handle on heart.
• 19:44
  There is a screen on step amongst people who I'm meeting
• 19:46
  here at conference. OK.
• 19:48
  Cheers. Why, thank you very much indeed.
• 19:49
  Thanks for joining us. That's the forecast for now.
• 19:51
  Until next time, bye. Bye.