Latest / I Do, Part 2 / “Voice Memo Guy”: Man Says He Wants Sex On Second Date, Or They “Should End It Here”

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“Voice Memo Guy”: Man Says He Wants Sex On Second Date, Or They “Should End It Here” · I Do, Part 2

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Saturday, July twenty fifth. I hated
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: debate over a guy who asks for exactly what he
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: wanted from a woman. And with that, welcome to this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: episode of Amy and TJ. Problem is he was asked
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: for sex. I guess that's the problem.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this was And this has become a.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Furious debate on TikTok over whether or not this guy
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: did the wrong thing, did the right thing?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Was offensive? Was creepy, was straightforward?
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And the reaction is all over the place, and it
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: has fallen along gender lines for the most part. I
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: will say about what they think about a voice memo
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: a guy left on a girl's phone.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: He sent it to her after their first date.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's gone crazy because this is a minute long
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: voice memo. It's gone out because her friend apparently posted
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: it online. It's gone crazy. Now the idea here, or
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: at least the backs. He went on one date with
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: this woman, allegedly and then sent this voice mail after
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a voice memo after the date. Okay, and this is
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: where the problems start because in this and I'll let
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you describe, it goes about a minute, but robes in it.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you have words from it. Okay,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: He is being very direct in what he wants for
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: a second date.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: He starts off by saying, this is just all too
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: much to put in a text, So I'm just gonna
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: make a voice memo. You always laugh, because my girls
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: do this all the time to me. Instead of facetiming,
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: instead of calling, instead of texting, they just put a
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: voice memo on their phone and then send it to me.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: First of all, that I got a problem if anybody
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: has a problem with him, that's where we start. Don't
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: send a voice memo. You can't get what you need
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to say in a few words. Don't go crazy. You
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: can't say something directly. That's stop.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: He does go around and about I don't know. He
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: probably should have tried a couple of times before he
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: saund with this one, but he sent up. He follows
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: up after their first date with this voice memo, saying
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: basically that if this woman who he had one date
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: with isn't interested in having sex with him on the
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: second date, they should end it here.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: He basically it sounds as if they had made.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Plans for him to come over on Thursday night later
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: that week, and so he said if I'm going to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: come over, I'm going to be hoping to hook up,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: to have sex, to have a good time. What would
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: be the point of me coming over then? If we're
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: not going to hook up? And he talked about how
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: it's sexual compatibility is important to him and he needs
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: to know if they're sexually compatible for him to continue
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: seeing her, and he literally says, what's the point of
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: me coming over if we're.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Not going to have sex?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Okay? Now is do we have the basics? Does everybody listen?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: A lot of people read this by now, Even if
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you haven't taken time to listen to the memo, you
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: probably read a scene headlines about the story. So that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: fairly sums it up. Is that right? Yeah?
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: And he's And the other thing that's notable is he
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: sounds very business like. There's nothing there's nothing warm or
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: friendly or in no way throughout the entire voice memo
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: does he take her feelings into consideration. He even acknowledges
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: it sounds as though they had a conversation about physical
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: intimacy beforehand, and it sounds like she already told him
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: she's moved slower than most and so he said, look,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I know that this might not be something or you reference.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: This might not be something you'd be interested, but basically
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I am, and I'm only interested in going forward with
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: sex on the table. And if sex is off the
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: table right now, we should not see each other at
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: all anymore. On one hand, I appreciate the fact that
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: he showed her and told her exactly who he was.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: On the other hand, yes, it is offensive to think
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: that he actually valued her that little. That he said,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: there's no point in me getting to know you anymore unless.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: We have sex. Valued her that little or valued sex
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: that much. He does not know this woman that well yet.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: We just got done watching Island. Everybody wants to kiss
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and kiss and kiss and kiss and kiss to figure
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: out some kind of compatibility where they think that's important
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to them, And that's fine. It is robes. I don't
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: know if the roles and the genders were reversed, would
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: this feel any different? Would you view it any different?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: If the woman was being very direct? I know we're
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: supposed to get together again, and I know sometimes you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: said you're a slower mover, but I just want you
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: to know that if I come over, I would have
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: an expert. Would it be.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: Different possibly yes, just because of I think the traditional
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: roles and the whole idea about sexual consent. Having a
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: woman come out and tell a man by the way
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: I think if she said, I'm totally ready and willing
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: to have sex, but I understand if you're not, but
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: I just want to put it out there that I am.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: If he had worded it even that way, I don't
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: can It's.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Hard to imagine a woman saying it the way he
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: said it, like, if you're not willing to have sex
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: with me in the next date, then we're done. I
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: still think that would have been viewed a certain way,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: but not as harshly, perhaps as if a man had
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: said it yes, and.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Then that voice memo would have never gotten out because
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that date would have happened in the next thirty minutes.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: You don't have to wait too, Can you come over?
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Now? That is?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: That is the truth? But I think I guess is it?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: There are two things at play here.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: First of all, I think we can all acknowledge that
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing that he was honest
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: about where his head was, but how he said it,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and is there is it fair to have an expectation
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: that a man should believe that he should have sex
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: with someone on the second date, or that person isn't
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: worth getting to know. I mean the idea that he
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: values and puts sex that high up. Do you believe that?
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Do you think if he was really into the squirrel,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: he wouldn't have been willing to wait?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Is that a hymn flaw?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Or is that this actually probably wasn't ever going to
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: be anything and he made it very clear this was
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: just a physical thing.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Why does it have to be a flaw at all?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: These are human beings who are trying to navigate all
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: we talk about all the times, how difficult it is
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to date these days, and dating in this new age,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and this new error and expectations being upfront, what all
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: these dating trends you keep telling me about every single week,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that we never it's a what now and this kind
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: of a rope, all that complication. So I might take
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: issue with how he did it, wouldn't have done it
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that way? Maybe don't think he should have done it
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: at all kinds of stuff, But I don't want to
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: take him to task or her to task for trying
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: to navigate whatever this wild dating issue is. Now. I
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: do have issues. I just don't think we should always Robes.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I hate to dismiss or throw somebody away for trying
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: to navigate. We don't have all the details, obviously, but
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I do take issue and would have advised him differently.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I don't shun him and throw him out with the garbage.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, I hear you, but obviously, if Sabine had come
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: and give shown this voice memo, you'd be like, if
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: you ever day put man again, I will lock you
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: in your room.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I had family members used to tell me
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I'm raising the South. I'm making this comparison Robes, like
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I appreciate seeing the racist comments outside somebody's home or
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the imagery, because I had family members to tell me,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you see that house right there, you stay away from
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that one when somebody shows it to you. Keep going on.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: The guy expressed, this ain't somebody I want to deal with.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to ride with this guy. He's told you,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: let's move on. It's over. So I just I don't
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: appreciate and wouldn't have advised him going the way he
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: did it. And I do think it does send a
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: negative message to men and to women, But and I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: do I just so I don't want to throw him
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: out for doing something ropes a lot of this dating shit.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I don't understand all these things. You go, this is
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: just another part of it. I don't understand this either,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: but it might be normal these days.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, And I do think it's interesting that there
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: is value in having somebody be that open and telling
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: you exactly. Look how many guys think that, babe, but
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: don't ever say it out loud?
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: And so women are going into the second date not
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: knowing that this guy has full expectations and is actually
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: going to be pissed if you're not going to get
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: physical with him.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: See that we that wording is important. Some guys have
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: what'd you just say? Expectations? Other guys have hopes, right,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: hope we get to have sex night, But if we don't,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: maybe the third date will be the charm, maybe the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: fourth fifth. But I like her, So expectations is different
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: from hope. Yes, every guy first date, right, they have hope,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: hell hope. This guy though, to take the other step
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of and look, if this is important to him, fine,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: why not roades? If sex is important to him and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: in his life, and that's the thing that drives him
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: in terms of compatibility and relationship. I feel sorry for him,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: but if that's his thing, you go do it.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: And I would think for him to have put this
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: voice memo out, it sounds as though it's worked before
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: for him.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: It doesn't.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: It didn't seem like this was his first try at it,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: like he felt perfectly comfortable letting her know.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: You know, and I take and I wish I'll go
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: on the record with saying I have. If I was
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a betting man, I might take the bet that this
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: mill was fake.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Oh you think it's fake.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: There's still some question out there about whether or not
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: this was just performative and somebody put this out, and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: why would somebody want to embarrass the guy? Why the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: vemo get there? I am just saying it seems a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: little performative. It seemed like it was meant to rile
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: us up. It feels that way. I'm holding out the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: possibility that it's real, but the conversation around it certainly
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: is right now.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, And I do think that might be the
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: value if it is real or not. Maybe is less
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: important than the conversation we're about all of this.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I have a couple comments which I thought were fun.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Someone wrote Basically, what he was saying is, if you're
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: not willing to set aside your boundaries and feelings to
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: give me what I want, then I don't want to
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: waste my time getting to know you. And I do
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: believe that's exactly what he was saying, and I do
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: believe that's exactly the reason why you should be thanking
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: him for showing you and telling you exactly who he
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: is if you don't want to date someone like that,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: And I imagine most people wouldn't thank you for letting
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: me know, sir, I can now move on.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Man, that's some of the best advice my mom ever
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: gave me when I was going through something in a relationship.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Better to find out in five months and in five years.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Better to find out after the first date than after
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: a full year of that very self indulgent man. Yes,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: someone else wrote I me I myself, I ME ME
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I because me, and then also I.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: It really was.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: The entire memo war was completely about what he wanted
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: and what he needs.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Isn't that what dating is now? And he just said
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: it out loud. Everybody tells us that now, Rhodes, I'm
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: not getting into a relationship to contribute to something. I'm
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: getting into it because that relationship could get me something.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Sometimes people even think it's good for status at work
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to be in a relationship, to be married or whatnot.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: People have all kinds of reasons, Robes, No, this mindset
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: of selfishness in a relationship. Yeah, he's an outlier.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: He just was bold enough to put it out there
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: for all the world to hear.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Someone wrote, so manipulative. I'm so angry with this dude.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Someone wrote, good grief, I've been married for eight years
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: forgot how crappy dating was.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I'm praying for all my single girls out there.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I do think That's where my takeaway was, Wow,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: there are guys out there like that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like that. You're laughing, you're rolling your eyes. Duh.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Of course there are guys out there like that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I am the guy wants to have sex. Okay, he
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: told her so in doing so, I don't think, Robes,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: is there anyone I you and I've been in a
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: relationship all these years now, Robes, it's it's crash for
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: me to ask you to have sex. He'll just request. Hey,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it just it's just no, and it's fine. It works
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: for other people that way in robes. I take complete issue.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: You should not do this. Even if you feel this,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't do it. Next step, even if you feel
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: it and you want to express it, there's a better
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: way to do it than he did it. Don't ever
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: do it in a voice memo, first of all, because
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that's crass and rude and whatever. Have that conversation. Talk
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: about that. Also, is this woman not worth a second
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: conversation before you send this memo? Is she not a
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: second good time somewhere? Didn't he said she was gonna
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: be inviting he was coming over to the house.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she invited him over. So the first date went, well.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You're doing well, bro, As Casey would say, come on, bro,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you're doing good. You just messed up. You're in You're
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: in the house and blew it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: It was so interesting and yes, and so look the
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: guys who came to his defense. I wanted to hear
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: what you thought about this. I thought these were two
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: good ones, he said. Regardless of his delivery, he communicated
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: his wants clearly, made his intentions clear. As for consent
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: and set of boundary, the majority of you in the
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: comments say you want clear communication until it's not what
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: you want to hear.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: That is, that's true, Robes. We see this play out,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and that's it's fair. And you and I go through
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: this a lot where being open and honest and telling
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you and then you don't like how it's being told. Right,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So it does. Guys do feel oftentimes like a goal
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: post is being moved. I did this. Do you want
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: clear communication? Okay? But I didn't say it right. Okay,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Now I said it the way you told me to
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: say it. But I said it in too many words. Okay,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Now I said it in fewer words. But you don't
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: like I put it in text and not in a
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: voice memo. Okay, now I'll put it like every step
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: of the way. And guys do, genuinely, as much as
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: we screw up Robes, we do get confused, we do
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: get annoyed sometimes, even as we saw it play out
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: on Love Island on movie night, the double standard. Keep
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: going back to Love Island. It's been fresh on our
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: minds here.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: There's so many relationships lessons, but.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Robes, that thing of he did exactly what you want.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir for showing that you're not the type
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of person I want to date. Let's all move on.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: That's okay. Is there a woman out there who would
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: have gotten that voice memo and appreciated it, liked it
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and said, yeah, come on over bro. I was hoping
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: myself we were going to.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Get it, you know what I think if he hadn't so,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And when we come back, we're going to talk about
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: what the experts say. But I think there could have
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: been a way he could have worded it differently that yes,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: a woman might have been receptive to it. It was
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: how he said it. We'll tell you what the expert
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: said when they weighed in on this when we come back.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone, as we talk about voice memo guy.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: This video has gone viral on TikTok. I actually wanted
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: to give some perspective. When it was originally posted, it
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: got five and a half million views almost immediately. There
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: are thousands of reaction videos, everyone reacting to the actual
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: voice memo. Three hundred thousand likes, thirty thousand comments. This
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: has gotten a lot of attention and reaction, so much
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: so that even relationship experts are weighing in on the
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: voice memo, whether it was right, whether it was wrong,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: and look, some of the experts say this guy did
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: do things correctly. He disclosed his intentions in advance. That
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: is a good sexual communication act that can help prevent
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: assumptions and dangers.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So that was one.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Expert said that that was a good thing in general. However,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: and this is what you were referring to when we
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: went to break He presented this as an ultimatum other
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: than an open conversation. So he said, if you aren't
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: willing to have sex with me on the second date,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: then we can end it here. So it was absolutely
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: an ultimatum. It wasn't a conversation or a description of desire.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Uh. It was an expression of his intentions, I guess.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: But it was awful because it does rogues. Is no
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: other way to receive that from someone. There is nothing
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: else about even watching a movie that I want to watch,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: sitting next to you, being around you in company, or
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: there is nothing else for us to do if we're
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: not going to have sex. That's that's insulting. That is awful.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: That was done poorly. But the only thing I will
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: give and credit to give is that congratulations. She should
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: thank him, thank you for.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Not wasting her time.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: For showing me exactly what I don't want and that's
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you exactly.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting because I actually thought if
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: this dude people are saying he was manipulative, he wasn't
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: manipulative at all.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: He had no game.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: If he had said, look, after our conversation, I just
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: needed to put this out here. I know you mentioned
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: you wanted to move slowly, but I really want to
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: have sex with you.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: You are.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I know this may be forward, but my god, you're smart,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: you're intelligent, you're gorgeous, and when I come over on
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Thursday night, I understand where you are and I respect
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: where you are, but I just want to put it
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: fully out there that I cannot wait to be with
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: you physically. Like he could have said something a little
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: bit more complimentary, he didn't have to put a there's
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: no point in us even seeing each other again if
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: you won't, and.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I think he did. He used the F.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: He said f uc k At one point it was crasty.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: He said, yeah, I wanna, I wanta f and he
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: said he kept calling it sexual intimacy for a while,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: but then he just dropped the F and it just
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: seemed so obvious. And I do agree. I think this
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: was an amazing voice memo because she knew exactly who
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: he was and she knew exactly where things stood.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Isn't that true.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: That we always ask for that and if we don't
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: like what we hear, then it's a problem. But we
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: should actually be grateful that someone was willing to be
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: just fully himself and even at his own expense.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And some people and some people are like that. And
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: just because people are crash or rude or don't know
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: how to go about it in the right way or
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: whatever else, I just don't like to dismiss or throw
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: away this guy that we don't know completely and without
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: understanding the circumstances. If he felt this way roads you
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: just said the experts the way he phrased it, I
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: think you don't express that. My advice to him, if
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: he wanted to express it is express that to her,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: but have the next date be in public. Express that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: to her that you wanna fuck, But let the next
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: date be in public, somewhere where you're not in private
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and there is that pressure and that expectation. He could
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: let that go and let that out, but she could
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: still be in safety in a public place to where
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: she doesn't feel like she she has the pressure to perform.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: She doesn't have to. Oh, he wants sex, so if
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: I don't. That's the only way Robes I would recommend
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: him doing this is that next date needs to be
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: in a movie theater, it needs to be in a bar,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: have a nice restaurant of picnic or something else. You
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: can't go in hot with that on both of their minds.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And now you're coming into a private home.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: That's tough. I agree.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: And look, these experts, I was surprised, were very deferential.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: They weren't jumping on this bandwagon of hating on him,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: and I appreciated that. They even said, one person, here's
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: a refreshing directness, another person, here's disrespect. Our reactions are
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: shaped by our lived experiences like gender, access to power,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: past rejection, past coercion, and so they said. The act
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: of sexual communication and the clarity it provides is absolutely
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: the right thing to do, but the way it was
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: delivered was very insensitive and perhaps entitled.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: And we refer to this so often in private and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: also here publicly as we do podcasts and YouTube shows. Robes,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: we talk about Gabby Bernstein. It was one of the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: coolest things. She ever said she and she was taking
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you to task at the time. Not in a mean way,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, but she said, why are you upset by
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: how somebody said something? Something was in you already that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: was going to get you riled up. Don't blame them
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: for the words they chose or what they said. You
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: need to examine what it is about you that caused
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you to react that way. That is what you were
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I thought about. When you're talking about what the experts
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: are saying, They said, your past history. What is your
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: relationship history that makes you react to hearing a voicemail
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that way? Why are you jumping on and typing all
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: this awful stuff about this guy in this situation? You
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: don't know? Is it because of something that happened in
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: your relationship or your current relationship? Those things are important roles,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and people are reacting to this based on what their
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: own dating history, their own experience. We have had tons
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of it, and we have seen people behave poorly who
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: are really really good folks, and we have seen people
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: who are not really good folks perform wonderful feats in
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a relationship rooms. It's just it's based on what you
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: experience so I hear this, and I see this based
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: on my experience and what I know, He's probably not
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the devil. He's probably a dumb dude. He's probably a
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: dude that is navigating this dating scene. And they're all confused.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: They don't know what to do, how to talk. What
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: am I supposed to say? Am I supposed to be direct?
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Or?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I want sex? Am I supposed to do this? What's
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: they don't know? First date? Second date?
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: This is not they don't know.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: But I think there is tremendous value in the ability
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: to let her know who he is. I think that's
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: the only way to look at this. Thank God, he
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: showed her who he was before that second date, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: that's a good thing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Voice memo.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Guy did the right thing because he just he let
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: it all hang out there and he showed what was
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: in his head. He didn't filter it. He didn't he
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: didn't manipulate. It's so funny people are calling him manipulator.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: It wasn't manipulating at all.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: But what was the manipulation? I mean, I guess they're explaining.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: They're explaining, like I guess the fact that there was
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: an ultimatum, like, hey, you know, I'd really like to
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: go on a second date with you. But it was
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: they felt like somehow he was dangling sex is like
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and I thought, he's just saying what he wants and
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: it's offensive as hell the way he's saying it. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: so to me, that wasn't manipulative because it didn't work, like,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: who is going to listen to that voice memo? What
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: woman is going to listen to that voice memo and
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: go ooh that sounds great, I'm in.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So he just he shot himself in the foot by
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: being himself.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's arriant robes. Maybe he rolled up to that
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to that first date in a Lamborghini Galardo. Maybe he
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: came with some Harmani slippers. Maybe he is the man.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe he ain't got to maybe r what if it's
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that thing. Maybe it went really well. Maybe he knows
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that she's into him and she wants this. So yeah,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: we want to keep this thing going. This is what
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I expect.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: We just I'll take overt over covert any day of
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the week.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Say it's face, but it's worth complish with that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Everyone.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: We always appreciate you listening to us. I made me
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Wrotebock alongside TJ. Holmes, we'll talk soon.