Latest / All About The Joy / A Life Across an Ocean: Music, Migration, and the Courage to Begin Again

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A Life Across an Ocean: Music, Migration, and the Courage to Begin Again · All About The Joy

• 0:01
  Carmen Lezeth: So that we get the good bits in case something happens, but I'll delete anything you don't want.
• 0:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Wow, you look so good.
• 0:07
  Carmen Lezeth: How are you, Scott?
• 0:09
  Scott MacLeod: I'm doing great, Carmen.
• 0:11
  Scott MacLeod: It's good to see you.
• 0:14
  Carmen Lezeth: It's good to see you too.
• 0:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh my god.
• 0:16
  Carmen Lezeth: Wait, I say this with respect.
• 0:18
  Carmen Lezeth: Have you lost a lot of weight or something?
• 0:20
  Scott MacLeod: I'm gonna take that part out, but no, you don't have to take that part out.
• 0:24
  Scott MacLeod: I'm constantly looking for new love, and um I I have lost.
• 0:32
  Scott MacLeod: Uh oh, this is where we're gonna need our phones.
• 0:35
  Scott MacLeod: I've lost um since my worst bit, like it was after COVID, but I've lost 25 kilos, so that's times.
• 0:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know.
• 0:50
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know.
• 0:50
  Carmen Lezeth: I'll put it down at the bottom.
• 0:52
  Carmen Lezeth: I'll put it down at the bottom when I edit, whatever it is.
• 0:55
  Carmen Lezeth: But you look amazing.
• 0:57
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you.
• 0:59
  Scott MacLeod: So do you.
• 1:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Um let me just tell everyone before we start.
• 1:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
• 1:05
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm Carmen Lisa, your host.
• 1:07
  Carmen Lezeth: This is my friend Scott McCloud.
• 1:08
  Carmen Lezeth: We've known each other.
• 1:10
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, I'm not gonna say how long, but since grade school.
• 1:17
  Scott MacLeod: Blessed sacrament school.
• 1:20
  Scott MacLeod: And I mean, how old were how no?
• 1:25
  Scott MacLeod: We're not gonna do age.
• 1:27
  Scott MacLeod: No, but I mean, when when you start grammar school, that's what we called it.
• 1:32
  Scott MacLeod: It was grammar school primary, right?
• 1:36
  Carmen Lezeth: No, and yeah, we were like in I mean, I went to Blessed Sack, and just to be clear, because people get confused with Blessed Sack in Cambridge, which I also was a part of in a different situation, but this is Blessed Sacrament in Jamaica Plain in Boston, Massachusetts, and I started there in the second grade, and I think you and I were in the same class in second grade, right?
• 1:57
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:58
  Scott MacLeod: I don't remember who who the teacher was because I've started.
• 2:03
  Scott MacLeod: Wasn't Dr.
• 2:04
  Scott MacLeod: Bern Doctor.
• 2:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Wait, wait, it wasn't Bernonzani?
• 2:06
  Carmen Lezeth: When was he teacher?
• 2:08
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know.
• 2:09
  Scott MacLeod: He was for me, he was fifth year, so uh he was fifth year.
• 2:14
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know.
• 2:15
  Carmen Lezeth: I know Miss Theophilus was third grade.
• 2:19
  Scott MacLeod: Oh, yeah, no, I think or Mr.
• 2:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Grebos.
• 2:22
  Carmen Lezeth: I remember the names, but I don't remember when he was.
• 2:28
  Scott MacLeod: No, no, it's so weird.
• 2:30
  Scott MacLeod: Uh yeah, anyway.
• 2:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay, so let me just tell everyone because first of all, I want to apologize.
• 2:36
  Carmen Lezeth: I suck at this so much, but I didn't know it was your birthday.
• 2:40
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm so sorry.
• 2:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Happy belated birthday, right?
• 2:43
  Carmen Lezeth: December 29th.
• 2:45
  Scott MacLeod: Yes.
• 2:46
  Scott MacLeod: Thank you.
• 2:47
  Scott MacLeod: Thank you very much.
• 2:48
  Scott MacLeod: I'm so sorry.
• 2:50
  Scott MacLeod: I'm glad it's not showing.
• 2:52
  Scott MacLeod: So, you know.
• 2:53
  Scott MacLeod: Oh god, no.
• 2:54
  Carmen Lezeth: We look fabulous, Scott.
• 2:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Don't worry about that.
• 2:57
  Carmen Lezeth: We're gorgeous.
• 2:58
  Carmen Lezeth: So I should tell everyone that you're it's early morning for me, it's late at night for you.
• 3:07
  Carmen Lezeth: You are in Spain, you've lived there for how long now?
• 3:12
  Scott MacLeod: Um, I I turned 59, and that marked my 30th anniversary.
• 3:21
  Scott MacLeod: That was my arrival.
• 3:23
  Scott MacLeod: I arrived in Spain on my birthday.
• 3:25
  Carmen Lezeth: On yeah, dude, we are so cutting that out because you just aged me by accident.
• 3:33
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, hell to the no.
• 3:35
  Carmen Lezeth: All right, so I was much younger when I started.
• 3:42
  Carmen Lezeth: I was much older.
• 3:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know what the right thing is.
• 3:44
  Carmen Lezeth: How do I hide that?
• 3:46
  Carmen Lezeth: It's all right, I'm embracing it.
• 3:48
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm not 59 though, but I refuse.
• 3:51
  Carmen Lezeth: I refuse.
• 3:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Wow, so you've been there for a long time.
• 3:55
  Carmen Lezeth: And can you tell everyone why you moved there?
• 3:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I think that's an interesting story.
• 4:01
  Scott MacLeod: Sure.
• 4:02
  Scott MacLeod: I was to avoid student loans, I was doing a second master's in music.
• 4:11
  Scott MacLeod: This is after getting an undergraduate degree in psychology.
• 4:17
  Carmen Lezeth: In psychology, right, which I think is so cool.
• 4:21
  Scott MacLeod: And then I went to another university and got an artist diploma.
• 4:28
  Scott MacLeod: So it's a performance, not I would so I I could be stupid.
• 4:34
  Scott MacLeod: I didn't have to take classes, I just had to practice.
• 4:37
  Carmen Lezeth: He's always he's so humble, he's like always putting himself down in a way.
• 4:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Come on, you're a big time musician.
• 4:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm gonna say it for you because you're gonna go on the long-winded way about it.
• 4:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, so if I say this wrong, just be nice to me, okay?
• 4:53
  Carmen Lezeth: But you are the co-principal oboe.
• 4:57
  Carmen Lezeth: Is that how you call the instrument?
• 4:58
  Carmen Lezeth: It's the double read instrument, right?
• 5:00
  Carmen Lezeth: That that is correct of the Galicia Symphony Orchestra, correct?
• 5:07
  Carmen Lezeth: That's what you were doing when you went out to Spain.
• 5:10
  Scott MacLeod: That is correct.
• 5:11
  Scott MacLeod: I okay, I initially started, I was playing an oboe, and then I also became soloist on the brother, the big brother instrument, which is called the English horn.
• 5:25
  Scott MacLeod: Of course, it had to be English in Spain, but yeah.
• 5:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Of course, of course.
• 5:29
  Carmen Lezeth: But um, but I I can I just tell you, I think that's one of the most beautiful things about you.
• 5:35
  Carmen Lezeth: So I'm gonna tell people we've always been friends on Facebook or whatever, like whatever, but we got reconnected, and I'm gonna share this with you, and I don't mean to embarrass you, but I don't think you realize how much it touched my heart what you did.
• 5:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, we had already been in touch, um, and we were, you know, speaking on a pretty regular basis on WhatsApp or whatever, right?
• 5:55
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, once we got back in touch.
• 5:57
  Carmen Lezeth: But when the fires happened a year ago here in uh California, and you knew I lived right here where it was happening, and I was being let me explain something to people.
• 6:09
  Carmen Lezeth: This is what friendship means.
• 6:10
  Carmen Lezeth: It's not about every day, it's not about I need to talk to you every day, you need to do this, whatever.
• 6:16
  Carmen Lezeth: But Scott turned around and reached out to me and was like, just come to Spain.
• 6:20
  Carmen Lezeth: I'll have a ticket ready for you.
• 6:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Just come to and to this day, like I can tear up about it.
• 6:25
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I was like, what?
• 6:27
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, and I I just want to say thank you to you.
• 6:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, because I I I wasn't gonna leave because of my town burning down.
• 6:37
  Carmen Lezeth: I wanted to be here however I could be, but the idea that that was your first thought and that you were so worried about me, and that you just wanted me to come out and be safe.
• 6:48
  Scott MacLeod: It seemed like it seemed like you were in a war zone.
• 6:52
  Scott MacLeod: I mean, it was the most logical thing just seemed I I understand supporting your your neighbors and and and you know, gathering everything that you can to help people who've lost their homes, which thankfully you did not, but no, I did not.
• 7:12
  Scott MacLeod: Um but I you know it uh yes, of course, the natural reaction is just get your butt out of there.
• 7:20
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah.
• 7:21
  Scott MacLeod: And no, I know you know, yeah.
• 7:24
  Carmen Lezeth: I know, and and I'm just I'm kind of making the point about I I know you know, but I'm saying it more for the audience.
• 7:30
  Carmen Lezeth: Like we we always have these definitions of what friendship is, and some people I think get confused that it means you need to be in touch all the time, you need to do A, B, C, and D.
• 7:39
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's like to me, the real definition of friendship is that when you're in crisis, someone acknowledges that and someone says, I got you.
• 7:48
  Carmen Lezeth: And what do you need?
• 7:49
  Carmen Lezeth: How can I be a friend to you?
• 7:51
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just, you know, I've never really expressed that to you, but I just want to say thank you.
• 7:56
  Carmen Lezeth: That really for me was it.
• 7:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, it just made me tear up, and I just want to say thank you.
• 8:01
  Carmen Lezeth: I just thought it was okay.
• 8:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Now back to you, back to you.
• 8:03
  Carmen Lezeth: No, no, no.
• 8:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I I have some questions.
• 8:07
  Carmen Lezeth: No, please go ahead.
• 8:09
  Scott MacLeod: Ask okay.
• 8:10
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm gonna ask you, look, it this is just about getting to know you.
• 8:13
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I just so this 2026 for me is going to be a year of me also interviewing the people that are most important to me.
• 8:21
  Carmen Lezeth: It started in December.
• 8:23
  Carmen Lezeth: I interviewed Billy Gerberg, who is like a brother from another mother, not like he is brother from, and it was a great interview, and it was so much fun.
• 8:31
  Carmen Lezeth: And so now you're starting off my year as well.
• 8:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, and so I kind of want to do that.
• 8:37
  Carmen Lezeth: I've been interviewing so many random people, and I love that.
• 8:40
  Carmen Lezeth: And I will continue to support people, new business owners, people who are doing things, whatever.
• 8:45
  Carmen Lezeth: But I also want to talk to my friends and talk about what they're doing.
• 8:49
  Carmen Lezeth: So, okay, here's the next question.
• 8:51
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 8:52
  Scott MacLeod: Okay.
• 8:52
  Carmen Lezeth: So um, and you don't have to answer anything you don't want to answer, but you better.
• 8:55
  Carmen Lezeth: No, I'm just kidding.
• 8:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 8:58
  Carmen Lezeth: Did you when did you know that music was your path?
• 9:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Did you know in the fourth and fifth, like when we were that young?
• 9:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I knew as a dancer that I wanted to perform when I was born, but for you, when did it kind of happen?
• 9:12
  Carmen Lezeth: The musical instinct.
• 9:14
  Scott MacLeod: I had no uh, you know, in our primary school, the music education was null.
• 9:24
  Scott MacLeod: I mean, there was absolutely nothing.
• 9:27
  Scott MacLeod: I remember the nuns trying to teach us every good boy deserves fudge or something, whatever.
• 9:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, some stupid thing, yeah.
• 9:37
  Scott MacLeod: And so I was lucky enough to have been accepted into the Boston Latin School, which is the oldest continuously functioning public school in the United States.
• 9:53
  Scott MacLeod: And at the first, I don't know, the first week that they brought in musicians, they brought in groups, and then they said, okay, now you have to choose an instrument, but at some point you're, you know, 12, 13 years old, and you're playing with seniors in a band.
• 10:21
  Scott MacLeod: But I started, I didn't start the oval until I was 16.
• 10:27
  Scott MacLeod: And uh in Boston Latin, I I was playing clarinet, I was playing bass clarinet.
• 10:36
  Scott MacLeod: I remember sax in a jazz band.
• 10:39
  Scott MacLeod: I'd never jazz, and I still couldn't.
• 10:42
  Scott MacLeod: I mean, people had to write my solos.
• 10:45
  Scott MacLeod: I say, but I had no idea.
• 10:47
  Carmen Lezeth: So wow.
• 10:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Um I love that whole journey though, because I'm always fascinated by the choices we make that meet us, connect us with the right people that then move us to the next space.
• 10:59
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's so interesting that you said Blessed Sacrament didn't have music.
• 11:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Of course, it didn't even have gym.
• 11:05
  Carmen Lezeth: We didn't even have a gym class, we didn't have really anything at Blessed Sacrament.
• 11:09
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, there's no offense, it was a private Catholic school, but it really only focused on really religion, basic math, and basic English.
• 11:17
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't think we I'm not trying to diss it, I'm just saying it really didn't cover a lot of the things, but it was in a poor neighborhood and a working class neighborhood and whatever.
• 11:27
  Carmen Lezeth: It was what it was, and it was better than some of the other places some of us could have ended up at.
• 11:31
  Carmen Lezeth: But I remember you, me and Theodora, uh it was kind of like the three of us were really good friends for a while there, but I think it was me and Theodora and then you and Theodora.
• 11:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't I remember you, but I don't remember the three of us always hanging out.
• 11:56
  Scott MacLeod: I think it was Mr.
• 11:58
  Scott MacLeod: Bernazzani taking us to see the whiz.
• 12:01
  Scott MacLeod: Um, and I I'm sure the parents were were so put off by the thought of us getting on.
• 12:11
  Scott MacLeod: I don't know whether they hired NOLO school or whether we just took the you know the the metro I don't remember in in Boston.
• 12:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I well well wait, we we've talked about this before because for some reason I well I he used to drive me to school.
• 12:30
  Carmen Lezeth: He used to drive me to school, he would pick me up at the corner of Rosemary Street and drive me to school, and uh and like today that would be considered just blasphemy.
• 12:42
  Carmen Lezeth: He was doing it to make sure I went to class, he wasn't doing it for any other reason, he was so invested in the kids, and but yeah, but today that would be cons and he didn't just do that for me, he did that for a lot of people.
• 12:59
  Scott MacLeod: Right, yeah, he I had two sisters who went to the school before me, and both of them had a horrible reputation, so the nuns just assumed that I was gonna be a bad apple.
• 13:14
  Carmen Lezeth: So I think they were right from the very I know, but Scott, you were the nicest, kindest guy in class.
• 13:21
  Carmen Lezeth: You were, I don't remember you being ever an issue to anybody.
• 13:25
  Carmen Lezeth: I can name some of the pain in the asses in our class, but you were not even one of them.
• 13:31
  Carmen Lezeth: I wanted to ask you a question, and I don't know how you feel about this, but what is it like being an American living in Spain as you're watching the United States going through what it's going through?
• 13:45
  Carmen Lezeth: And I don't mean just politics, but just in general.
• 13:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Can you give us a flavor of what it's like to be in in another country as an American?
• 13:58
  Scott MacLeod: It's never been easy.
• 14:00
  Scott MacLeod: We all hate Americans.
• 14:03
  Scott MacLeod: I mean, that's a given.
• 14:05
  Scott MacLeod: And and and that hasn't that hasn't changed.
• 14:09
  Scott MacLeod: It certainly hasn't gotten any better in our current situation.
• 14:14
  Scott MacLeod: Uh it there has always been a strong, strong, and this is far for Trump of his name.
• 14:27
  Scott MacLeod: You can um yeah, uh it you know, it's it it's you're an American, and it and the same thing goes back to accent.
• 14:38
  Scott MacLeod: You know, I still have a strong accent, as does Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem.
• 14:48
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 14:48
  Scott MacLeod: And they they're loved for it.
• 14:51
  Scott MacLeod: Um you know, it's like, oh, it's right.
• 14:54
  Scott MacLeod: Well, you well, let's see or an Italian, right?
• 14:59
  Carmen Lezeth: Let's clear it up a little bit because I don't people understand the accent you're talking about is when you speak Spanish, because you speak fluent Spanish.
• 15:05
  Carmen Lezeth: So you're talking about you still have an American accent when you speak Spanish, right?
• 15:09
  Carmen Lezeth: That's what you mean.
• 15:10
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah, I then people have accused me of being a militant American because I refuse to change my accent.
• 15:25
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's like, no, um, and it hasn't changed.
• 15:29
  Carmen Lezeth: People have always hated Americans.
• 15:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, probably they didn't hate the leader so much, but they just there's a thing about being American that's problematic.
• 15:39
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, because we've had this elite idea that we are the center of the universe and we're not.
• 15:45
  Scott MacLeod: Um and we we are the best, we are the strongest, and we are the saviors.
• 15:51
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah.
• 15:52
  Carmen Lezeth: And I mean, now it's coming, it's coming so full circle and to fruition.
• 15:59
  Carmen Lezeth: And yeah.
• 16:01
  Scott MacLeod: Venezuela, uh, I I know Venezuelans here in Spain, me too, yeah, who who have lived here, and the ones who manage to get out of Venezuela are actually happy with the situation, but once again, without getting too political, you can't remove a figurehead and not have a replacement plan in place.
• 16:34
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 16:34
  Scott MacLeod: And they they replace him with his second.
• 16:38
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 16:40
  Carmen Lezeth: I I have a few friends who are Venezuelan, and I shouldn't say that they're friends, but they're a family that I know very well.
• 16:47
  Carmen Lezeth: And um, and you know, they're conflicted because yes, they're happy, but then they are angry because as people in this country, they are pissed off in the way in which what has been done has done the, you know, like it shouldn't have happened the way it happened.
• 17:06
  Carmen Lezeth: That's not the way to do things, but yeah, that's a whole other ball game, and it's so complicated.
• 17:12
  Carmen Lezeth: And um, and I I don't know how to bring it back to joy right now.
• 17:17
  Carmen Lezeth: And so I want to get back to talking about you because I feel like one of the things I want to talk about with you isn't just that you are this musician, that you are an American.
• 17:26
  Carmen Lezeth: You love Spain, you don't want you come back and visit to the United States on a pretty regular basis.
• 17:33
  Carmen Lezeth: You were here last year, um, but you you were you weren't in California, I should say.
• 17:39
  Carmen Lezeth: You were in Florida, right?
• 17:40
  Carmen Lezeth: You were visiting family in Florida.
• 17:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Carmen Lezeth: And why are you in Florida?
• 17:46
  Scott MacLeod: Because my my closest, my sister lives in Sarason.
• 17:53
  Carmen Lezeth: So look at my my brother from another mother is in Florida.
• 17:57
  Carmen Lezeth: That's what I'm like, um, but you come back and visit often, but you would never move back here.
• 18:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Can you explain why, even though you feel like as an American, people hate Americans in Spain or in Europe, um, why you still think it's better to be living where you live and why you love it so much?
• 18:18
  Scott MacLeod: And first, I don't I don't believe that Europeans it's a generalized dislike of Americans, but I also I am a consummate traveler.
• 18:36
  Scott MacLeod: I have traveled the thanks to music, I've traveled the world, and what I I consider myself the best ambassador that I can be, and I am always open, I always smile.
• 18:52
  Carmen Lezeth: I said hate, but you corrected me.
• 18:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Huge dislike of Americans, and why would you not move back to the United States?
• 19:01
  Scott MacLeod: Well, frankly, I don't think I would be able to move back to the United States.
• 19:09
  Scott MacLeod: I I mean, aside from the fact that I live in a beautiful town that's got, I believe, 250,000 residents.
• 19:22
  Scott MacLeod: And but it's it's the healthcare, uh I think everybody is worried about social security here as well.
• 19:34
  Scott MacLeod: And there are foreign countries that are now saying, Oh, if you're not a national, we may take away your social security benefits.
• 19:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Wow, okay.
• 19:48
  Scott MacLeod: And that that becomes very frightening.
• 19:51
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 19:52
  Scott MacLeod: But uh essentially, if I fall down in the street, an ambulance comes, picks me up, takes me to the hospital.
• 19:59
  Scott MacLeod: And I don't pay anything.
• 20:02
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 20:04
  Carmen Lezeth: But can't but that can't be the only reason why you're you love Spain.
• 20:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I mean, is that the only reason why you would not move back to the United States?
• 20:16
  Scott MacLeod: No.
• 20:17
  Carmen Lezeth: I guess the question is, why do you love Spain?
• 20:19
  Carmen Lezeth: You're not like sorry, I wouldn't know.
• 20:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Why do you love Spain?
• 20:24
  Scott MacLeod: Like I love paella and I love octopus.
• 20:30
  Scott MacLeod: I love the atmosphere here.
• 20:35
  Scott MacLeod: Everything is within walking distance.
• 20:39
  Scott MacLeod: Transport, public transport is a great lake.
• 20:43
  Scott MacLeod: For example, I'm I'm essentially below sea level.
• 20:47
  Scott MacLeod: So there's no there's no subway here.
• 20:51
  Carmen Lezeth: Right, right.
• 20:52
  Scott MacLeod: And so everything are, you know, it's buses, and but the cost of living, you know, yeah, sure.
• 21:00
  Scott MacLeod: It's it's seen large increases, but in general, you have that old neighborhood feeling.
• 21:12
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah.
• 21:12
  Scott MacLeod: You know, everybody talks about their bargain and and their hood, you know, and and that still exists, and you see people, and in each, you know, you can walk maybe three city blocks, uh-huh, and there will be a cafeteria.
• 21:32
  Scott MacLeod: Well, that's a uh like a diner, a restaurant.
• 21:35
  Scott MacLeod: A diner, yes.
• 21:36
  Scott MacLeod: A restaurant, yeah.
• 21:37
  Scott MacLeod: Now, how when did people start saying bodegas?
• 21:42
  Carmen Lezeth: But it's always been a New York thing.
• 21:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Bodegas are a normal thing, but that's more like a grocery store, right?
• 21:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Like a bodega is more like a grocery store, yeah.
• 21:50
  Scott MacLeod: But for us, I mean a bodega is is more like a wine cellar, right?
• 21:56
  Scott MacLeod: Right restaurant.
• 21:58
  Scott MacLeod: But I remember it it seems to me in the past couple of years, I've started hearing it's like, oh, yeah, you know, you'll hear it on a police show, you know.
• 22:07
  Scott MacLeod: Oh, right, you know, they're down at the local bodega.
• 22:10
  Scott MacLeod: It's like, what?
• 22:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, that's a New York thing.
• 22:13
  Carmen Lezeth: That's really a New York thing.
• 22:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Because I've known that forever, but that's but it always seems more like a kind of grocery store community neighborhood area, you know what I mean?
• 22:24
  Carmen Lezeth: But yeah, but in Spain, that's not what a bodega is, right?
• 22:27
  Scott MacLeod: So no, no, it's definitely not.
• 22:31
  Scott MacLeod: Um, but in general, there's the level of um politeness.
• 22:40
  Scott MacLeod: I wanted to say education, but that's fair.
• 22:43
  Scott MacLeod: I'm directly tran no, but I'm I'm translating directly from Spanish because here it would be to call someone educado.
• 22:52
  Scott MacLeod: Educado would be education.
• 22:54
  Scott MacLeod: That someone is it that someone is polite, right?
• 22:57
  Carmen Lezeth: But it means um manners, right?
• 22:59
  Carmen Lezeth: It's more you're talking about more about having manners and compassion, and there's an elegance to it.
• 23:04
  Carmen Lezeth: So when you say it um in Spanish, that's kind of more what it means, but it translates specifically to education, but that's not, yeah, I get it, I get it.
• 23:14
  Carmen Lezeth: I think there's a small town feel for what you're talking about.
• 23:18
  Carmen Lezeth: There's still this idea that your neighbors and people matter.
• 23:22
  Carmen Lezeth: That's not to dismiss the United States, but we've become harsher and crueler.
• 23:26
  Carmen Lezeth: There's a sense that we're harsher and crueler to each other, and that even disasters, I mean, like the fire, where you, you know, where I was talking about earlier, um, we were all hands on deck, but then there were people in government, people in other states who are the cruelty, the nastiness, the it's our own fault kind of thing has become using it for political.
• 23:51
  Carmen Lezeth: And that's kind of stopped.
• 23:54
  Carmen Lezeth: And a lot of my friends who live in other countries say kind of the same thing you're saying, which is there is there's always been this idea that Americans feel that we, you know, that the very elitist, they think they're better than everybody else, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff.
• 24:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, but more importantly, that um there's a lack of manners, there's a lack of like we can always tell when American is in their country because we're loud, we're self-absorbed, we don't have the right manners.
• 24:26
  Carmen Lezeth: I've I've heard this so many times.
• 24:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 24:32
  Scott MacLeod: And here, I mean, walking down walking down the street.
• 24:35
  Scott MacLeod: Well, first of all, you'll see people come out of their buildings, older people, obviously, and yeah, you know, they it is like the sign of the cross, you know, they're they're they're asking for a blessing before they step out on the street.
• 24:52
  Scott MacLeod: But walking down the street, everyone says good day, you know, good morning, you know, Buenos Tia, you know, yeah, and and and people on, you know, I I take one bus and I know everybody who takes that bus.
• 25:11
  Carmen Lezeth: That's very old school here.
• 25:13
  Scott MacLeod: You know, yeah.
• 25:13
  Scott MacLeod: Exactly.
• 25:14
  Scott MacLeod: And you'll see somebody go, oh my god, you know, but did you did you fall?
• 25:18
  Scott MacLeod: Did you you know what happened?
• 25:20
  Scott MacLeod: You know, it's like why why do you have code?
• 25:22
  Carmen Lezeth: And look at before I get a million emails, not a million, but before I get the few people that are always emailing me something bad about whatever show they continue to watch, um, we're not seeing every single place nook and cranny in the United States.
• 25:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Because the United States is huge.
• 25:37
  Carmen Lezeth: You're in the northwest corner of Spain, right?
• 25:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Northwest.
• 25:42
  Scott MacLeod: Exactly.
• 25:42
  Scott MacLeod: And so for me, it it takes a good hour and a half to get to Barcelona, and that's just airtime, not airport time.
• 25:51
  Carmen Lezeth: Look, it I think all Americans should travel overseas.
• 25:53
  Carmen Lezeth: I do.
• 25:54
  Carmen Lezeth: But one of the things I hate about people in other countries is they act as if that's a big deal, that they get on a flight and go to another country that is right next to them.
• 26:04
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 26:05
  Carmen Lezeth: That's what we do here too, you know, and I really do think there's a different culture between me in California and me visiting Texas.
• 26:13
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm just or Florida.
• 26:18
  Scott MacLeod: Or Canada.
• 26:19
  Scott MacLeod: If you could be so lucky as to I love Canada.
• 26:22
  Scott MacLeod: I I love Canada.
• 26:24
  Scott MacLeod: Buy some medication there, you know, whatever you need.
• 26:27
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what?
• 26:28
  Carmen Lezeth: I think if I were to move to live anywhere, seriously, it would probably be Canada because it's the most not like the United States, and yet the most kind of sort of a little bit like the United States.
• 26:39
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 26:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I think, um, but yeah, I'm not coming to Canada, don't worry.
• 26:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I know you don't want any of us there either.
• 26:45
  Carmen Lezeth: They're like, nobody wants us in their countries now.
• 26:49
  Carmen Lezeth: That's the sad part, right?
• 26:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, all right, let's go back.
• 26:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, go ahead.
• 26:54
  Scott MacLeod: Oh, can I interject one thing that um I loved when Europeans got so mad at the United States when we started to make immigration immigration more difficult, that we were closing borders, that we were making it more difficult to get green cards.
• 27:20
  Scott MacLeod: Meanwhile, when the European community was created, it was to allow free travel amongst all of the nations that were included in that European community.
• 27:39
  Scott MacLeod: Now there's the economic community and there's the social community, which are distinct.
• 27:45
  Scott MacLeod: But after one two years, Switzerland closed their Spanish immigrants or Spanish persons, right?
• 28:00
  Scott MacLeod: You could you could not you could not go there.
• 28:04
  Scott MacLeod: Technically, I should be able to work, live and work anywhere in the United.
• 28:10
  Scott MacLeod: And they said, oh no, you know, it's it's become it's become burdensome after yeah, not after 350, 360 years in the United States of having missed liberty there, accepting people at LSI.
• 28:29
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 28:30
  Scott MacLeod: It was it became very, very evident that it was not working.
• 28:38
  Carmen Lezeth: Why do you think it's true that immigration has become such a problem all over the world?
• 28:43
  Carmen Lezeth: It's such a weird uh I think it's a very weird problem, actually.
• 28:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Uh, but why do you think that that's become such a thing now?
• 28:55
  Scott MacLeod: I think it's dreams.
• 28:57
  Scott MacLeod: I think it's the search for joy.
• 28:59
  Scott MacLeod: It's the it's the people are hoping that there's something better, you know, and the next I didn't make it here, you know.
• 29:12
  Scott MacLeod: I I I couldn't make it in in Italy, let's say.
• 29:17
  Scott MacLeod: You know, the the the people were too close, they you know, they didn't want to make I couldn't make friends, I couldn't get a job, and the bureaucracy was too difficult.
• 29:30
  Scott MacLeod: But I think so many people are are traveling and just hoping to find joy, to find some place where they where they can fit in.
• 29:43
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 29:44
  Scott MacLeod: And feel safe, feel safe and feel that that neighborhood, which you're you're not gonna feel.
• 29:50
  Scott MacLeod: You're uh you know, for as friendly as any little Spanish town can feel, it can be very cold, even now after 30 years.
• 30:01
  Scott MacLeod: I I do you know what it's like to walk down the street and I mean have people come up to me, hug me, because I I was this known figure.
• 30:14
  Scott MacLeod: People would people would go to see the orchestra, right, and they would recognize me, and they knew my name, even though it's a totally impossible name to pronounce.
• 30:26
  Scott MacLeod: But I remember I was going, I was going to be a soloist in front of the orchestra, and of course I was taking a bus and I, you know, I was wearing street clothes, but a woman came out of her house and said, Oh my, oh my god, Scott, I'm I I'm I'm so looking forward to your performance tonight.
• 30:48
  Scott MacLeod: My mother and father are about to come downstairs, and I said, Oh my god, I, you know, thank you, thank you so much for your support.
• 30:56
  Scott MacLeod: And she's like, Yeah, thank you for being here.
• 30:58
  Scott MacLeod: You know, you've been here your entire life, half half of my life.
• 31:02
  Scott MacLeod: I've spent it in in one city in Spain, you know.
• 31:06
  Carmen Lezeth: But this is the but this is the argument for immigration, right?
• 31:10
  Scott MacLeod: This is the exactly, but it's it's the the question of foreigners not being welcomed is is a very different issue.
• 31:26
  Carmen Lezeth: I wonder what it's about though, right?
• 31:28
  Carmen Lezeth: I wonder why all over the world there is this hatred or this not wanting of immigrants into a country.
• 31:37
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, even here, you know, it's I mean in the United States, it's based on immigrants.
• 31:42
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, and we're learning the hard way.
• 31:44
  Carmen Lezeth: But it's kind of like, I don't know where along the way, I understand there might be, there could be possibly a financial burden, but there's only a financial burden when you have immigrants come in when you haven't set up a system so that it's not like here in the United States, especially here in California, you see it brilliantly.
• 32:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Most of our farm workers who feed most of our country are people who are not here under a correct status.
• 32:15
  Carmen Lezeth: But why is that?
• 32:16
  Carmen Lezeth: It's because the corporations who own these farms and own all of these industries are not hiring people who are of correct status.
• 32:27
  Carmen Lezeth: Like it's a weird game that is played.
• 32:30
  Carmen Lezeth: So we punish the people who are doing the work, but not the corporations who funnel people in and pay them low wages, give them no status, do not help them at all.
• 32:41
  Carmen Lezeth: We exploit them.
• 32:42
  Carmen Lezeth: So it's a weird, right, weird thing to say it's economics.
• 32:47
  Carmen Lezeth: We don't want all these people coming into our country and taking yes, you do.
• 32:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Because if you didn't, you would set it up right.
• 32:54
  Scott MacLeod: Right.
• 32:54
  Scott MacLeod: Or there wouldn't be jobs to be had.
• 32:58
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, there would be American citizens doing those jobs if they were under good conditions, and if they were being paid a decent, hey, I'd be happy, not that I think I could do it because I know that's hard work, but if you want to pay me $75 an hour to work on a farm, uh-uh, I'll do it.
• 33:16
  Carmen Lezeth: Sure.
• 33:17
  Carmen Lezeth: But they're not gonna pay that per hour, you know what I mean?
• 33:20
  Carmen Lezeth: Although it probably should be that kind of money, you know what I mean?
• 33:23
  Scott MacLeod: And and and you're not gonna be living in a shack with 17, 15 other people.
• 33:29
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah, okay.
• 33:31
  Carmen Lezeth: We were off my too.
• 33:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, but I mean, I I but but I think that's probably the problem, kind of in a very simplistic way, all over the world, is that I don't know why everyone has this weird thing about it's just only our kind, only us can live here, only if you're really from here, born here, and whatever it is, um, and nobody else can come in.
• 33:55
  Carmen Lezeth: I think that's making for a really horrible, horrible world.
• 34:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Um I want the diversity, I want the difference.
• 34:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I love that you're in Spain.
• 34:06
  Carmen Lezeth: I love it.
• 34:06
  Carmen Lezeth: I think it's kind of cool, especially knowing how we grew up, you know, and how it started.
• 34:11
  Scott MacLeod: That's what's amazing to me is that you know, I had I had this drive to to explore.
• 34:22
  Scott MacLeod: And I I think, you know, uh my father was in the military, yeah.
• 34:28
  Scott MacLeod: I mean, he he was voluntary.
• 34:33
  Scott MacLeod: My sister, my oldest sister was also voluntary.
• 34:38
  Scott MacLeod: Uh, you know, she enlisted in military service, and to do broaden your horizons to see something different, but I miss I miss Doyle's in Boston and it's closed.
• 34:55
  Carmen Lezeth: It is.
• 34:55
  Carmen Lezeth: I was just gonna tell you.
• 34:56
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm so glad you knew.
• 34:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I was just gonna say, like, do you know it's closed?
• 35:01
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm so glad you said that you knew that.
• 35:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I wanna um ask you a question.
• 35:08
  Carmen Lezeth: What do you think has changed you the most in your journey living in Spain?
• 35:14
  Carmen Lezeth: Um because I know the move itself changed you.
• 35:21
  Scott MacLeod: Yes, and and it happened quickly, and I think you become very humble, you know, you're humbled by the language, you know, which I did Spanish advanced placement, you know, in high school, and when I got here, I could not remember a word of it and any of it.
• 35:42
  Scott MacLeod: I I could read, I could read the newspaper, but I couldn't understand a word.
• 35:46
  Scott MacLeod: I couldn't speak words.
• 35:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Let me just tell you that my name is Gadiming Suarez, and I took all those same classes, and even I couldn't speak it.
• 35:54
  Carmen Lezeth: You know how I now speak it fluently?
• 35:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Seriously, I mean that's how bad our school was.
• 35:59
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, my school was.
• 36:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I came to Los Angeles 30 years ago, and I forced myself to speak to everybody in Spanish, and it's very todos los mexicanos, you know what I mean?
• 36:13
  Carmen Lezeth: So it's great to have these conversations because that's how you learn it and speak it.
• 36:17
  Carmen Lezeth: So I always knew it in my head, but my vocabulary was not that big at all.
• 36:22
  Carmen Lezeth: And so, yeah, yeah.
• 36:23
  Carmen Lezeth: But now you're on point.
• 36:26
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah, it it it exactly, but uh and I have I have friends, and I I can walk down the street and go into a restaurant and like, oh my god, you know, you didn't come here this year for you know your birthday.
• 36:42
  Scott MacLeod: Normally you do your birthday celebration here or whatever.
• 36:46
  Scott MacLeod: And and and that's that's like being in Jamaica plain, you know, it's like back in the day, back in the day.
• 37:00
  Carmen Lezeth: And he would say my name Carmen.
• 37:03
  Scott MacLeod: Carmen, Carmen, yeah, yeah.
• 37:05
  Scott MacLeod: Uh Carmencita.
• 37:09
  Carmen Lezeth: No, no, no, no, Carmencita is not the name we're going with Scott.
• 37:16
  Scott MacLeod: No, that's funny.
• 37:17
  Scott MacLeod: They hated that growing, yeah.
• 37:22
  Carmen Lezeth: I hate that.
• 37:23
  Carmen Lezeth: With the T H, like we would never say that.
• 37:27
  Carmen Lezeth: Suarez is how we would say with almost like a soft S.
• 37:30
  Scott MacLeod: Suarez, see, yeah, yeah.
• 37:31
  Scott MacLeod: Yeah, but no, here it's not well.
• 37:34
  Scott MacLeod: Here it's Madrid, Madrid, but it's Andrew D.
• 37:40
  Scott MacLeod: It's Madrid, you know?
• 37:41
  Scott MacLeod: It's Adri.
• 37:43
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, here's the thing people should know too.
• 37:45
  Carmen Lezeth: And I don't know how true this is, but I know growing up, so there's uh there's the hierarchy where the Spaniards are the best in the Latin community, right?
• 37:53
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 37:54
  Carmen Lezeth: So where my family's from, we're like way at the bottom.
• 37:57
  Carmen Lezeth: We're like way at the bottom, you know.
• 38:00
  Carmen Lezeth: So it's like we don't like the Spaniards at all.
• 38:04
  Scott MacLeod: Okay, right.
• 38:04
  Scott MacLeod: It's it's very, it's very British.
• 38:07
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 38:07
  Carmen Lezeth: Anyways.
• 38:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Listen, thank you so much for doing this.
• 38:12
  Carmen Lezeth: I really appreciate it.
• 38:13
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I know that I just kind of was like, I'm just gonna ask you questions, no big deal, whatever, but it was just so nice.
• 38:19
  Carmen Lezeth: I hope you'll come back and join us on all about the joy.
• 38:23
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 38:24
  Scott MacLeod: I I was so used to seeing you talking to, you know, five people or six people at once, and I thought, oh no.
• 38:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, no, that's our Friday night live show, but thank you so much for bringing that up.
• 38:36
  Carmen Lezeth: But our Friday night live shows are on Friday night, and that's where everyone can, it's kind of like it's supposed to be the neighborhood feel, the kind of hanging out in the neighborhood.
• 38:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Everyone can come in after work in the chat, or if we know you, you can come up.
• 38:49
  Carmen Lezeth: And you should come up because, well, I think it's way early in the morning for you at 6 p.m.
• 38:54
  Carmen Lezeth: our time.
• 38:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I think it's like early in the morning for you, it wouldn't be that much fun.
• 38:57
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, but you can always join.
• 38:59
  Scott MacLeod: I've been out, you know, drinking or or not.
• 39:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Or hey, I'm trying to make you look good, Scott.
• 39:06
  Carmen Lezeth: So we're gonna have you back on the show, right?
• 39:08
  Carmen Lezeth: And really, um, and then we'll talk more about some other more personal intimate stuff.
• 39:14
  Carmen Lezeth: But this was kind of fun just to have you on for now and just to kind of introduce you.
• 39:18
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you so much for doing it.
• 39:19
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what's so weird?
• 39:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Your video now is so clear, but at the beginning it wasn't.
• 39:24
  Scott MacLeod: I don't know what that's about.
• 39:26
  Scott MacLeod: It's bizarre because what I'm seeing in in both screens has been uh aside we had two obvious cuts that didn't it's been clear for you the whole time.
• 39:38
  Scott MacLeod: It's been totally clear, yeah.
• 39:40
  Carmen Lezeth: So random.
• 39:41
  Carmen Lezeth: So maybe maybe what will happen is that when I download and everything, it will be okay, but sometimes it's not.
• 39:46
  Carmen Lezeth: So I'll just figure it out on my end.
• 39:48
  Carmen Lezeth: I appreciate you so much.
• 39:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm glad that we are still so much in touch, and I love you, and I'm so glad to have you back in my life.
• 39:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, so everyone, thank you again for stopping by.
• 39:58
  Carmen Lezeth: Remember at the end of the Day, it really is all about the joy.
• 40:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye, everyone.
• 40:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye.
• 40:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Nice to meet you all from Spain.
• 40:06
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye.
• 40:06
  Carmen Lezeth: Salute.
• 40:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Salute.
• 40:10
  Carmen Lezeth: Thanks for stopping by, All About the Joy.
• 40:13
  Carmen Lezeth: Be better and stay beautiful, folks.
• 40:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Have a sweet day.