Latest / Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond / Short Paws: Anthropomorphism, Dog Welfare & Responsible Ownership

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Short Paws: Anthropomorphism, Dog Welfare & Responsible Ownership · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

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Welcome to Pause Between Us and your regular dose of positive pet news.
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Every other week we bring you a short, uplifting episode
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packed with the latest feel-good stories and research from the world of pets.
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So take a moment to tune out from the negative news dominating our headlines
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and help us shine a light on the good, celebrating the joy pets bring to our lives
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and sharing the inspiring changes making their lives better too.
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So settle in for a short pause and let's spread some positivity together.
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Yes, let's indeed. As always, as always.
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Because there's still lots of negativity going on. There always will be.
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So let's try and find the light in the dark.
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Yeah, yeah. And I think it's worth just maybe recapping on these short pause
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because we've done a few now and they run alongside, yeah, our long pause.
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And the long pause is where we invite guest speakers on to chat to us,
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people that are really passionate about pets as we are and people that come from all walks of life
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and have lots of different experiences and views to share on all types of pets, actually.
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It doesn't have to just be cats and dogs.
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But the short pause that we're focusing on today is where we're looking at the news that's out there
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and, you know, positive news for pets that we feel are worth a mention and worth a shout out.
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Because, yeah, I think it's stuff that basically is designed to make our pets' lives better, hopefully.
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And we try not to touch too much on the negative stuff.
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But, yeah, on the positive things that are happening around the world
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that we think are worthy of sharing.
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So, yeah, or actually also things that just interest us and that have caught our eye.
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And we think, yeah, this might be worth a bit of a discussion.
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Yeah. And I suppose to say, like, we aren't the experts in these discussions.
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So, you know, take what we say as just a lay take on a lot of this stuff.
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We've read a little bit into it and we've kind of come at it with a little bit of education.
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But we are by no means experts in this field.
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So we're just discussing it as pet owners and as with the knowledge we're building up over the weeks
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and trying to sort of just understand it from a little bit of a balanced perspective.
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So, yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So what's caught your eye then recently in the news?
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Yeah, there's been, I suppose, an overall comment because I am seeing a lot on LinkedIn.
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I'm sort of following a lot of people and commenting a lot of things and finding some
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really interesting and sort of moving the dial on animal welfare.
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And I don't know if it's because I'm now in that space and this has always been the case,
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but I've never been more encouraged by what's happening in the world of animals
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because there just seems to be so many advancements,
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so many people caring for, so many people wanting change,
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so many things where animal sentience is being recognised in all kinds of animals.
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I mean, I've been spotting a lot about crustaceans and things and how people want to push,
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you know, better welfare for farm animals, which, I mean, God is awful.
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I don't even like to think about that.
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No, I know.
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But yeah, that's the positive side of it is I think I'm being quite encouraged
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by lots more people talking about it.
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That's just a general comment.
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It's not a thing I've particularly dived into.
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But yeah, and I think the flip side of that is actually lots of people who work in the animal
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world, we've touched on this actually, struggling with their own, I suppose, mental health around
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it and dealing with the difficulties that they see every day and what a toil that plays on people.
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That's down to your vets and up to animal behaviourists and people like us who just
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read stories about what's happening in the animal world.
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So there's another thing there to just be kind to people who are trying to make the
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world kinder for animals.
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It's, you know, the people behind it are trying to do their best as well and are bearing the
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burden of forwarding better welfare for our lovely animals.
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But God bless them and glad they do.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And that's it.
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Sometimes it's not the obvious.
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It's not always the obvious kind of roles, is it, for people that you say that are helping
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animals.
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Sometimes it's in an indirect way.
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You might have people who are social workers or people working with vulnerable people and
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actually they're also, yeah, get involved then in the animal welfare side of things.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, what I'm trying to say isn't always the animal rescue charities.
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They're an obvious one, but yeah, there's lots of people who touch pets' lives in some way.
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I think it was interesting when we did our podcast a few months ago with Rachel,
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From Nose to Trail, and yeah, we touched a little bit then, didn't we, on
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burnout in that industry or in the dog training industry.
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Because if you are working with dogs who are maybe a little bit more difficult or need
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that little bit of extra help, you do worry about them and you do take your job home with
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you and yeah, that's not always an obvious one.
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You see, or if you're an animal trainer or a dog behaviourist or a nutritionist or whatever,
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you kind of must be all like fun and games, but it's not always.
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It can be really hard and yeah, especially if the dog or cat is unwell and you're having
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to help them somehow.
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That's a good point, yeah.
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So, interestingly, what we've sort of touched on before as well is like not judging a situation
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by what you see at that moment and people make judgments a lot about, oh, look at that
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cat in a harness.
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Why is a cat in a harness or why that dog's in a pushchair, a pushchair, stroller?
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Why the cat's kept inside?
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Why a dog is limping?
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Like seeing a snippet into somebody's life with their animal isn't necessarily the full
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story as well.
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So, I suppose I'm also saying to people like, don't judge the situation by what you immediately
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see, trying to understand what's going on.
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Yeah, no, I completely agree.
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As someone who does have to use a stroller for Betty and gets all sorts of reactions,
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yeah, people just making a judgment on what they see there in front of them rather than
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understanding what Betty's experiencing and what I'm supporting her with.
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So, yeah.
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Do you know what?
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Actually, since we've been doing this session, you've been talking about the stroller and
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Betty.
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When I see dogs in strollers, it's much more normalised now because it wasn't before for
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me and I was like, oh, I don't really, I never thought negatively because why would
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you?
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But I was a bit like, oh, why is the dog in a stroller?
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Yeah.
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Now I understand that they're already possibly elderly and actually this is a great way to
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get them out and about still and not let them be locked indoors.
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So, yeah, stop, just stop and think.
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Indeed.
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Yeah, don't judge.
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Never judge.
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Anyway, so, sorry, off on a complete tangent then.
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The other thing I was going to talk about was the anthropomorphising thing, which we
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have touched on in a short pause before.
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So I thought it'd be good to just have a tiny bit of conversation around it.
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Again, by no means am I an expert and by no means can I kind of provide a full and scientific
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insight into this.
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But, yeah, so when we're talking about anthropomorphising our animals, I suppose it's
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about kind of putting human emotions, human reactions and thoughts onto an animal.
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So like thinking like, oh, the dog's looking guilty or the cat is smiling or it's grumpy
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or like, I don't know, the shark is evil, things like that.
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And we often do it a lot.
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It's sort of, I mean, I'm kind of very bad for doing it.
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It's normal because humans are hardwired to look for human-like patterns in things.
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And it helps us to kind of understand the world and build logic around it.
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And it helps us to move and think forwards about why things are happening.
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So it's normal.
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And it's like, you know, we see faces in clouds and we see faces in patterns.
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It's just part of our makeup.
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But it can be a detriment sometimes of animals because we think they're behaving in a human
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way when maybe they're not either capable or they're not reacting in the way that we
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would as a human.
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I suppose it's just like thinking about even human to human.
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We're all different.
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We all respond differently to stimulus.
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We all have our own thoughts about different things.
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And if you take it then to an animal level, it goes even further than that.
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So you can't put your feelings onto the pet.
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So like, you know, if...
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But I mean, it does help because it helps you build a bond and it helps people to kind
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of want to care because you feel like they're your friend and you understand them.
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And I think there is a lot of understanding.
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And I think we do learn a lot.
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I mean, one of the things I read was that many behavioural researchers will recognise
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the sort of anthropomorphising of things because it kind of gives a starting hypothesis.
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It like makes us kind of think about how...
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But then it's like testing it against actual evidence and using your knowledge of the species
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sort of biology and their behaviour and where they live and kind of, you know, their instinctual
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behaviours that come through and then using that as a place to build upon.
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But yeah, I don't know.
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It's interesting because I definitely think...
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I always think my cats are sad or my cats are happy or they're being a little bit cheeky.
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And I don't know what...
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I think what scientists think is that animals have got emotions and they are sentient.
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They can kind of respond to stimulus.
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They have stresses, but they may not have that deeper level of morality.
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They don't feel guilt.
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They don't feel jealousy.
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They're not evil.
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But I don't know, you know, because I think science is always...
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Science is interesting because science is very good and it kind of helps you to measure
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things properly.
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But sometimes science can be a bit behind.
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And it's only been recently that they've been talking about sentience and I've been
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for years going, well, of course, animals feel emotions.
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But like, of course, animals will get stressed.
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Of course, animals can be happy and sad.
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And now it's talked about a little bit more acceptably.
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I don't know whether I was naive or stupid or ahead of the curve or what, but I always
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thought this.
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And I was always really annoyed that people put animals in this box of they're just a
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being and they just act instinctively or whatever the thinking was back then.
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I always thought that animals had more to them than we gave them credit for.
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But there's lots of things happening, it feels like, at the moment to sort of understand
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animals better, which I think is perfectly brilliant.
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What's your thought?
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Yeah, I mean, I've gone quiet here because I'm just deep in thought listening to what
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you're saying and thinking about it.
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And there's so many things there, isn't there, that you've touched on.
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I mean, firstly, well done on being able to pronounce the term because it's something
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that I cannot get my mouth around.
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I struggled last week and I'm amazed I did it well today.
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You've been practicing it, haven't you?
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That's the thing.
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And yeah, I mean, just before we started recording the podcast, we were talking earlier,
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weren't we, about animals being able, pets being able to understand human behaviours
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and the impact that our behaviours or emotions might also have on them.
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You know, if they kind of, like a dog can tell if you're upset or worried and offer
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some comfort.
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And again, you know, if that's true, then if they can sense emotions or behaviours in
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humans, then surely they have also emotions and behaviours themselves.
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I don't know.
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I mean, I think one of the things of good, I'm coming at this from a dog perspective,
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is one of the good things about being a dog mum or a dog dad is learning how to read your
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dog's body language and understand their behaviours.
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And every dog is unique with their own quirks and challenges.
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And there's lots that you can do to learn about dog body language online through some
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of the charities like the Dog Trust or the RSPCA.
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And like you say, they might not always be what you think they are or that you make an
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assumption about.
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So one example is Betty loves her food.
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She's food obsessed.
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Give her dinner.
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It's never quite enough.
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And when we do say, no, no more, you know, you've had enough food or treats, my husband
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and I will go, oh, she's sulking now.
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Yeah.
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And I'm like, she's probably not sulking, is she?
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But we're just interpreting that as she sort of lays down and puts her head down.
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She's a bit like looks up at us with sort of her eyes as if to say, I'm really annoyed
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that you're not giving me any more food.
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You know, I don't know.
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Is that kind of like, is it what we think it is?
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Or is it just something completely different?
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I would agree, though.
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I would think that was sulking.
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But maybe we're naive and wrong.
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I don't know.
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But I think they are capable of more than even we're saying here.
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I think that some of the dangers, I think, are like if you're forcing certain things
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on the animal.
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So like you think hugging for us is a great thing.
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Hugging for dogs can be distress, distressing, or they might just find that a bit restrictive.
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Same with cats.
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Like I learned the other day because I really want to pick up my cats and cuddle them.
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I love picking them up here and holding them.
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They don't like it.
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My old cats loved it.
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These don't like it.
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But I read the other day that something to do with gravity and cats being picked up is
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linked to kind of a fear of being attacked from above from like big birds and things.
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OK.
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So they don't always like it.
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So you kind of have to sort of respect the animal and not force your feelings on them
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in that way.
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But yeah, but things like that, I would be like, yeah, it's definitely sulking.
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Yeah.
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I love picking Betty up and I love giving her lots of kind of kisses and giving her
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a little cuddle.
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But I also respect the fact that if she's a bit stressed or she's a bit hot, she doesn't
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want to be kind of held.
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And sometimes on an evening, I'll put her on the sofa, have a little cuddle.
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And after a while, she's kind of done.
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She wants to kind of either get off the sofa or go at the end of the sofa and get into
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her like comfortable position.
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So I suppose it's a bit like sharing a bed with someone after a while.
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You're like, oh, I need a bit more space.
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You know, you're kind of too close.
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You're cuddling up to me and I don't like it after a while.
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I don't know.
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But yeah, I think learning about dog and cat behavior and behavior of other animals is
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really important so that you're not making assumptions and you're not, yeah, kind of.
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I think that's it, isn't it?
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Like having a basic understanding.
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And so you're not treating them like a small child.
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No.
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Which will have different needs to, you know, to one of your pets.
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Yeah.
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And I'd say, you know, Betty's a fairly calm, chill dog.
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And people say, is it her?
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Or is it the breed?
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Or is it, I don't know, you know, that whole thing around nature versus nurture?
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Because I like to think that she's, she has a calm environment and, you know, give her
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lots of love.
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She feels quite a confident dog.
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I don't know.
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And again, just assuming that me giving her lots of love and attention just makes her
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a well-rounded dog.
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But there's a lot more to it than that, clearly.
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Yeah.
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Like you say, I mean, but like, yeah, I know.
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Yeah.
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There's routine and other kind of like things that dogs like.
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So it's just about, yeah, understanding how animals see the world, not putting your view
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on the world onto them.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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No, well said.
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I think that's a good way to finish that bit of news because it's, yeah, very true.
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And a big topic we should look more into.
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Yeah.
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So for me, something I've been reading recently, which has just come out in the past week or
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two is a new dog ownership guide.
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And it provides a universal definition of what is considered to be responsible dog ownership.
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And it's created in partnership with the Dogs Trust and the RSPCA.
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And it's designed to help both new and experienced dog owners have a better, more consistent
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understanding of what it means to be a responsible dog owner.
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And yeah, I think, you know, the aim is to ensure that everyone sort of is in a society
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where dogs, their owners and the wider community live peacefully side by side.
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And the hope is that by following the key themes of the guide that we can take giant
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steps towards that future.
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So having happier dogs, more harmonious and loving dog owner relationships and ultimately
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fewer dog control incidents over time.
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Protecting more people, dogs and other animals from harm.
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Yeah, it's not a particularly long document.
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So it's something you can easily read while having a cup of tea.
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And yeah, I mean, it does touch on behaviors, which is just that we've sort of talked about
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ensuring that you're providing for a dog's welfare needs and that you, you know, you're
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preparing your home and outdoor space for a dog.
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And, you know, you think about the training that your dog might need to get important
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life skills and behaviors.
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So positive reward methods.
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And then, yeah, caring for your dog's behavioral health.
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So things like that.
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And then, yeah, which is nice.
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But then there's a bit like we just talked on as well is about dog's body language and
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understanding their behaviors, ensuring they're kept under control, supervising them when
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they're around other people and keeping your dog safe around water.
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And, you know, all those kind of things that you can do to help your dog feel safe and
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secure.
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One of the things is getting your dog used to going to the vets.
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And Betty has such a bad experience with this a few years ago that it's only recently that
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sort of managed to get her feeling a bit more comfortable around her vet.
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It's taken time.
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But yeah, that just stood out at me because I thought, yeah, there's lots of dogs that
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hate going to the vets.
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And it's awful what you can do.
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And then, you know, there's stuff around being a good citizen.
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So I think that's where the kind of the human bit comes in, making sure that your dog's
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got a collar and a tag and making sure your dog is microchipped, cleaning up after your
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dog.
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I think I read an article the other day which was saying, why does London have such a dog
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poo problem?
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Really?
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Yeah.
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Apparently, it's got quite bad.
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And I've definitely seen a lot more dog poo around.
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Have you come across any white dog poo yet?
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Oh, no.
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What does that say?
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We always talk about it.
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It's always a thing.
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I think in the 80s or 90s, because picking up dog poo wasn't a thing when we were young.
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And there was always white dog poo everywhere.
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And it was just the thing.
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Well, there's a few hard looking ones about.
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But yeah, I mean, I'm yet to see someone who doesn't pick it up.
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But yeah, I see also lots of poo around.
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So there are people that are just like, you know, we all get into that sort of, we all
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have that moment where we're like, have we got enough poo bags?
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My dog's doing a few more poos than it normally would.
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Like I only packed three in my pocket and now I might need four.
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So yeah, and then it also just talks about sort of that lifetime commitment that you
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have to a dog.
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Things, you know, if your life circumstances change, things like, you know, if you have
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a new baby or a child in your home or, you know, your dog in time to come may need veterinary
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care.
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You're thinking about like unexpected vet bills or lifelong medical conditions.
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So just a really nice guide.
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It's really clear.
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Lots of things to sort of think about.
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Some of it's obvious, but some also then things that you think, oh yeah, OK, I hadn't quite
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thought of that.
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So yeah, I just thought it was a really nice document to flag if people are interested
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in reading it.
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You can find it online through the RSPCA website.
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OK, good, nice one.
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Yeah, I think everybody who has an animal should be given a guide because I was thinking
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about this, funny enough, thinking about it, I think last night because I had a rabbit
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after uni and I didn't get any kind of information on how to take care of it.
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And I don't think I should have been allowed out of a pet shop without a small little
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handy book that just made it really easy and accessible of what they like, what they don't
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like, what you need to feed them, what works for them.
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And, you know, we've talked with quite a few people.
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So we had Huns Buns on, Carrie.
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I had your friend Laura talking about hamsters.
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I want that information, not pet shop information.
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I want really detailed, good welfare information from good places that the pet shop, if you're
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buying them from there, should provide you so that you get the best insight into whatever
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animal you're getting hold of.
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It shouldn't just be here, here's an animal, go away, good luck.
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Because you don't know if people are going to go and seek out information.
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The proactiveness of going to find information like this, it should be given at the point
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of adoption, you know, or rescue.
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Yeah, and actually you've reminded me about a news story that I saw recently where a Labour
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politician wants people to take short training courses before they can own a rabbit as part
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of animal welfare reforms in Wales.
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So you just touching on, you know, you shouldn't have been left out of the, you shouldn't have
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been let out of the pet shop with a rabbit without this kind of information or this opportunity
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to do that sort of training.
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So, yeah, a call for people to be restricted from becoming owners until they can show that
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they understand the needs of rabbits.
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Why not?
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Yeah, that rabbits are among the most neglected pets in the UK and bunnies can be currently
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bought too easily with too little understanding of their needs.
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So, yeah, I think training and education doesn't have to be boring either, does it?
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It doesn't have to be something you think, oh gosh, that's going to take a lot of time.
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Yeah, it could be, you know, just something that you, like you say, can do while you're
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having a cup of tea, putting your feet up, just chilling out, take, you know, take the
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time to do a bit of research before you get your pet.
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Well, early on, we talked about what's happening, was it in France where they're making these
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education compulsory in schools, like the basic animal care?
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Yes.
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Why don't they just do that?
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It'd be a lovely thing for young kids to learn about just basic animal care from just little
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day trips out and little kind of activities that they do in school.
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It could be so fun and like who doesn't love talking about animals?
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So, that could be just a really fun, accessible way to bring young kids up knowing that knowledge
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from a very young age and then taking care of their subsequent future pets in a much
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better way than we did.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it could be like the equivalent antenatal care for pets.
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So, if you know you're getting a pet, a new pet is arriving into your life, it'd be great
23:00
if there was kind of a sort of a mandatory course.
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Well, the majority of people are going to have a pet during their lives, aren't they?
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So, it's going to meet what?
23:10
I don't even know what the percentages are, but it must be more than 50% of people in
23:13
the world have an animal, surely.
23:16
So, yeah, do it for God's sake.
23:19
Do it, do it, do it.
23:20
Yeah.
23:21
And hopefully, we're not lecturing anyone here.
23:22
We're just, you know, just…
23:23
I am.
23:24
Oh, okay.
23:25
Fair enough.
23:25
Do it, people.
23:26
Natalie said.
23:27
I want better flipping care.
23:28
I should have done it myself.
23:30
I should have done it myself.
23:31
Yeah, well, same here.
23:33
Yeah.
23:34
You live and learn and, you know, we're still learning, which is part of the point of this
23:38
podcast.
23:38
So…
23:39
Yes, yes, yes.
23:40
Well, thank you.
23:41
I think we've covered some juicy topics today.
23:43
And yeah, as always, we're really keen to hear from our listeners.
23:48
If there are things that you would like us to explore or to talk about or to do some
23:53
research on and to bring it back to our podcast and share some insights or some thoughts on
23:59
that topic, do let us know.
24:01
I also have to say a very great big thank you for everybody who's following and subscribed
24:05
because we've got a lovely load of people on YouTube recently.
24:08
So, thanks for joining the gang, everyone.
24:10
Hope you're enjoying what you're listening to.
24:12
Yes, yeah.
24:14
Okay, well…
24:15
So, yeah.
24:15
So, we'll see you until next week where we'll have Cat Show Live.
24:19
Lady Come On is going to talk to us about The Cat Show.
24:22
Is that right, Sash?
24:24
It is, yeah.
24:24
Cat Show that we're attending in September.
24:26
So, we're going to chat to Sam, the founder of The Cat Show Live, just to learn a bit
24:31
more about what's involved and what goes on behind the scenes to make The Cat Show Live
24:36
a success.
24:36
So, tune in.
24:38
Yeah, thank you.
24:39
Until next time.
24:40
Have a lovely week.
24:40
Yeah, see you soon.
24:42
Bye.
24:43
Bye.