Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Paul Pugmire on the US Open, Wyndham Clark defying the traditional difficulty of Shinnecock Hills, Zac Blair playing the weekend + more

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Paul Pugmire on the US Open, Wyndham Clark defying the traditional difficulty of Shinnecock Hills, Zac Blair playing the weekend + more · The Sean O'Connell Show

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  Speaker 1: You are listening to the Sean O'Connell show. It's your
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  Speaker 2: Today, I'm gets eie on you when the space by.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to our Tom three on the Shawn O'Connell show,
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  Speaker 2: and welcome in Paul Pugmire, host of Utah Golf Radio.
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  Speaker 2: Right here on ESPN seven hundred and ninety two one FM.
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  Speaker 2: This conversation brought to you by you went to golf.
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  Speaker 2: Worldwide Golf. Get there, Paul Pugmyer, Welcome to the show.
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  Speaker 2: How are you, sir?
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  Speaker 3: Going great? It's the US Open week? Kel Are we
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  Speaker 3: not doing great?
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  Speaker 2: US Open at Shitnacock and we were going crazy over all?
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  Speaker 2: The fun factoy yesterday about how difficult the US Open
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  Speaker 2: has played at Shinnecock Hills. Only three guys in the
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  Speaker 2: history of the tournament at that course under par. But
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  Speaker 2: through two rounds, we've got guys right now that are
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  Speaker 2: overperforming history. They're outperforming the historical standard at Shinnecock Hills,
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  Speaker 2: especially Wyndham Clark, who turned in a record first round, Paul,
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  Speaker 2: Is it the course layout, is the despite the win
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  Speaker 2: from yesterday? Is it playing a little bit more friendly?
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  Speaker 2: Or is this how it always goes where people feel
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  Speaker 2: good after, you know, Thursday and Friday, but then the
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  Speaker 2: weekend comes back to get them.
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  Speaker 1: What do we see it?
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  Speaker 3: We're seeing a really talented player who has in the
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  Speaker 3: last couple of years dealt with some personal issues and
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  Speaker 3: kind of got his head straight, and we're seeing it.
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  Speaker 3: Wyndham Clark has won recently, He's had top five recently.
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  Speaker 3: He is a proven champion, he's a former US Open winner,
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  Speaker 3: and he is coming in in form. We also are
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  Speaker 3: seen that through the luck of the draw, combined with
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  Speaker 3: some odd things that happened yesterday, with the way that
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  Speaker 3: they had a fog delay and then a weird weather
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  Speaker 3: pattern in the afternoon, he Wyndham Clark got kind of
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  Speaker 3: lucky with playing when the wind was laying down. We'll
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  Speaker 3: see how it goes over the weekend where he'll be
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  Speaker 3: playing later in the afternoon on both Saturday and Sunday,
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  Speaker 3: and what he's doing right now is absolutely historic. But
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  Speaker 3: he's far from done. We'll see where we are on
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  Speaker 3: Sunday Sunday evening.
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  Speaker 2: When you see the way that the first round was
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  Speaker 2: interrupted for Windom right with the darkness and coming back out,
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  Speaker 2: how much does that change a golfer's second round, the
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  Speaker 2: second round, start finishing out your first round, et cetera.
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  Speaker 2: I know it's not completely atypical, and it happens with
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  Speaker 2: weather delays all the time. But when we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: such a tough place and a place that seemingly the
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  Speaker 2: weather changes so drastically over the course of a day,
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  Speaker 2: so it's like you're almost playing two different courses depending
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  Speaker 2: on the weather that day. How much does that affect
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  Speaker 2: these guys?
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  Speaker 3: It affects them, Yes, it does. But I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: see you and raise you just a little bit. I've
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  Speaker 3: been to Shinnecock, spent a little time there, and it's
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  Speaker 3: not just day to day, it can be hour to hour.
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  Speaker 3: The nature of the of the land, the location there
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  Speaker 3: on Long Island, exposed to the ocean on two sides,
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  Speaker 3: the weather can come from any direction, the wind can
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  Speaker 3: come from any direction, and there are some design features
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  Speaker 3: in the course that take advantage of that. It can
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  Speaker 3: be really really difficult hour to hour and change hour
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  Speaker 3: to hour. That's the nature of Shinnakok and that that
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  Speaker 3: location there on Long Island. But there's there's no question
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  Speaker 3: that Wyndham got to play when the wind was laying
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  Speaker 3: down yesterday and so okay, that's fine, that's that's the
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  Speaker 3: way the game goes. Uh And he's doing some amazing things.
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  Speaker 2: What do we know about Jason Day being carted off
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  Speaker 2: yesterday after an injury?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope he's okay. I don't know any details
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  Speaker 3: on that. You know. I will say this about Jason Day,
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  Speaker 3: uh and, and I want to do so in the
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  Speaker 3: context of immense respect. He's a major champion winner, he
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  Speaker 3: has been number one in the world golf rankings. But
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  Speaker 3: he has an element in his swing that creates a
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  Speaker 3: torsonal torsional stress that leads to injuries. And from this
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  Speaker 3: from his very earliest days, when he first emerged on
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  Speaker 3: the nash on the on the international scene, I thought
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  Speaker 3: this is a swing that will not cannot revive with
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  Speaker 3: found injury, and he has shown a bit of that
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  Speaker 3: over the years he's had injuries. I hope nothing serious
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  Speaker 3: is happening to him now.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, you'll have to forgive me, Paul. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: a lot about Keith Mitchell, but he was he was
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  Speaker 2: up and down. Yet I guess it was down and
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  Speaker 2: up yesterday the way you would probably talk about it
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  Speaker 2: from the trend of his golf game. Uh, disastrous, disastrous
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  Speaker 2: start to his round and then finished really strong. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: so how walk me through this? Walk me through a
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  Speaker 2: day like this for a professional golfer at the US Open,
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  Speaker 2: Bogue's double Bogue's, and then somehow you're hitting birdies and
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  Speaker 2: ingles eagles in your second nine.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there are some mysteries out there that are hard
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  Speaker 3: to know. And if Keith or anybody could answer the
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  Speaker 3: question of exactly how do you do? Believe me, he'd
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  Speaker 3: be bottling it and selling it. But Kashmir Keith one
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  Speaker 3: of my favorite guys on tour, a lot of game
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  Speaker 3: and really cool guy. He struggled in his opening round,
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  Speaker 3: which was on his opening nine, pardon me on the backside,
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  Speaker 3: and then turned around and just went lights out. Every
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  Speaker 3: once in a while, these guys the talent level is
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  Speaker 3: so deep, sometimes they just kind of zone out and
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  Speaker 3: the talent takes over very clearly. That's what happened with
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  Speaker 3: Keith and he shot twenty nine after forty one on
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  Speaker 3: his opening nine, and you know, you look at the card,
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  Speaker 3: he's even par ho hum. No, it was anything but tohum.
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  Speaker 3: It was. It was. It was amazing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty crazy round. And look, you had some guys
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  Speaker 2: with their second round today. Maybe they were quiet on
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  Speaker 2: day one. A couple of guys came roaring back up
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  Speaker 2: the leaderboard on the second day. And you know, for
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  Speaker 2: someone like what was it Morikawa? I think was five
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  Speaker 2: under today, Xander Shafley had a great day to what
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  Speaker 2: do you attribute the strong second rounds from those guys.
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  Speaker 3: Look at the top of the leader board and just
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  Speaker 3: start counting down from Wyndham Clark down the top, and
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  Speaker 3: what you get is major winner, major winner, major winner,
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  Speaker 3: major winner. There are eight major winners in the top ten.
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  Speaker 3: What that shows is cream is rising to the top,
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  Speaker 3: and that is shinnacock. Shinnacock demands the very best, and
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  Speaker 3: it is only the very best who will emerge. And
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  Speaker 3: so this is the one thing that I absolutely expected
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  Speaker 3: going into this US Open is that Shinnecock would force
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  Speaker 3: the very greatest best players with a proven track record
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  Speaker 3: and a proven ability to a stand the cauldron of
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  Speaker 3: a major championship, in particular the US Open. And so
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  Speaker 3: it is no act. And in my view that what
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  Speaker 3: you see at the top of the leaderboard are major
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  Speaker 3: champions US Open winners, people who have proved they can
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  Speaker 3: walk this path. And so to your question of what
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  Speaker 3: makes them turn it on, they know who they are,
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  Speaker 3: they know they have that talent, and they step up
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  Speaker 3: and bring their game. It is not more complicated than
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  Speaker 3: the very best rise to the very hardest test.
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  Speaker 2: Zach Blair, even through two rounds, if I'm not mistaken
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  Speaker 2: any card at or plus one today, maybe what do
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  Speaker 2: you make of his chances? Because it feels like that
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  Speaker 2: this course is in some ways unforgiving, but because it's
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  Speaker 2: equally hard on everybody, maybe you can climb if you
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  Speaker 2: have a couple of good rounds this weekend.
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  Speaker 3: It's equally hard on everybody. That's a very good point
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  Speaker 3: and equally demanding of everybody. But look, we all know
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  Speaker 3: Zach and we love him. We've been following him since
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  Speaker 3: he was a little kid. This guy has talent. This
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  Speaker 3: guy has game. And there are two things in particular
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  Speaker 3: about Zach Blair's game that match up well with Shinnecock.
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  Speaker 3: Number One, he keeps the ball in front of him.
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  Speaker 3: He keeps the ball in play. Shinnecock, people will talk
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  Speaker 3: about the wide fairways. Yeah, they're wide. They also are
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  Speaker 3: sloped and contoured, and there's a lot of crosswind going
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  Speaker 3: on at Shinnacock, and the difference between being on the
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  Speaker 3: fairway and slightly off fairway can be catastrophic. Zach Blair
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  Speaker 3: keeps the ball in play. He keeps the ball in
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  Speaker 3: front of him. Number one. Number two, he is a
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  Speaker 3: superlative world class elite wedge player. He is one of
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  Speaker 3: the best walking the planet with a wedge in his hand.
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  Speaker 3: And so when he gets into a position where he's
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  Speaker 3: got a wedge, whether it's to save part or attack
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  Speaker 3: for a birdie, Zach Blair is in the game. And
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  Speaker 3: so it really doesn't surprise me that he is in
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  Speaker 3: the top twenty ish. It's jumping around right now, but
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  Speaker 3: let's call it top twenty. Doesn't really surprise me that
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  Speaker 3: he is there is demanding the Shinnecock is. This is
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  Speaker 3: a guy who has characteristics that match up well with
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  Speaker 3: the course?
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  Speaker 2: All right, So who's still within striking distance? Given what
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  Speaker 2: Wyndham Clark has done to pull himself away from the
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  Speaker 2: rest of the leaders so far, who is still within
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  Speaker 2: striking distance as we get into the weekend?
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  Speaker 3: Everybody in the top ten, and especially not only just mathematically,
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  Speaker 3: you've got to grab them, but also because, like we
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  Speaker 3: just discussed, look at who they are. These are people
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  Speaker 3: who have proven they can meet the moment. But having
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  Speaker 3: said that, there's an open question. Clark sits with a
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  Speaker 3: four shot lead right now going into the afternoon round
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  Speaker 3: on Friday, and the winds will pick up in the afternoon.
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  Speaker 3: Is he having a Tiger moment? You know? Tiger wins
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  Speaker 3: the ninety seven Masters by twelve, he wins the two
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  Speaker 3: thousand US Open by fifteen. Are we watching a moment
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  Speaker 3: where somebody runs away with and obliterates a field in
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  Speaker 3: a major championship. Maybe yet to be seen. I think
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  Speaker 3: it's more likely that things bunch up at the top
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  Speaker 3: of the leader board and that Windham comes back a
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  Speaker 3: little bit. But having said that, I could be very wrong.
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  Speaker 3: He might run away with it. He is a former
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  Speaker 3: US Open champion, he's already won one. He won at
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  Speaker 3: the Los Angeles Country Club a couple of years ago.
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  Speaker 3: But everybody in the top ten right now, you figure
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  Speaker 3: they're going to be in the mix on Sunday.
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  Speaker 2: Given what the scores look like right now, we could double,
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  Speaker 2: We could even triple. We could quadruple the number of
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  Speaker 2: players in history at a US Open at Shinnecock that
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  Speaker 2: have finished under par.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, if I'm putting, I'm giving you the option A,
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  Speaker 2: B or C. We will double that number. We will
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  Speaker 2: triple that number. We will quadruple that number, or I
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  Speaker 2: guess less than double, like you would have. It would
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  Speaker 2: take a lot of these guys struggling through the weekend.
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  Speaker 2: What is the most likely outcome for you?
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say double. Okay, yeah, I.
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  Speaker 2: At least three of these guys will finish under.
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  Speaker 3: Part Yeah, I can see that. An awfully lot more
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  Speaker 3: than that. The wind will have to lay down. I
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  Speaker 3: don't think that's going to happen. Shinnacock is still Shinnacok.
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  Speaker 3: It's so hard.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite hole or a favorite couple
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  Speaker 2: of holes. I'll be honest with you, Paul, I'm definitely
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  Speaker 2: not going to sit down and watch the whole thing.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit down and watch a whole
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  Speaker 2: round tomorrow. We're on Sunday. But if I'm cherry picking
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  Speaker 2: the holes that I want to watch to really give
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  Speaker 2: me something emblematic of the Shinnecock experience in the US Open,
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  Speaker 2: which holes should I be watching?
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  Speaker 3: Let me make three quick comments about that. First of all,
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  Speaker 3: number seven is one of the great par three's in
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  Speaker 3: the world. It has what's called a red Dan green
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  Speaker 3: complex design, but it is one of the more severe
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  Speaker 3: reddans in the world. It is so difficult to get
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  Speaker 3: to the right spot on the green and get the
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  Speaker 3: ball to stay in the right spot on the green.
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  Speaker 3: So watch what happens at number seven. Second observation, Number
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  Speaker 3: eighteen is one of the great finishing holes in the world.
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  Speaker 3: Regardless of where we get on Sunday, if there is
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  Speaker 3: any kind of open unanswered question remaining on Sunday evening,
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  Speaker 3: eighteen will have a say in it. It is just
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  Speaker 3: such a great and demanding finishing hole. And then I
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  Speaker 3: want to note a fascinating and I think very impactful
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  Speaker 3: design characteristic giving the nature of the land they're on there,
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  Speaker 3: the winds shift, there are three different sections of the
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  Speaker 3: course where the holes are in triangular shape, three holes
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  Speaker 3: in a triangle, three holes in a triangle, and then
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  Speaker 3: one that's four holes in a triangle. And the purpose
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  Speaker 3: was to intentionally make the players hit all sides of
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  Speaker 3: the wind, regardless of whatever direction the wind might be
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  Speaker 3: coming from that day or that hour. And so that
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  Speaker 3: characteristic of the course is one of the things that
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  Speaker 3: makes it so great, and it's something to keep an
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  Speaker 3: eye on as well.
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  Speaker 2: A lot less pleasant thing to ask about here, but
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  Speaker 2: I want to make sure that before you get out
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of here, I get at least a thought on. You know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Phil Mickelson appears to be falling from grace and now
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: there's you know, a lot of he's disputing the narrative here,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and his lawyer's disputing the narrative here. How is golf,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: professional golf, the golf community handling what's going on with
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Phil Michelson?
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  Speaker 3: Sad. Phil is a great champion. He has been a
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  Speaker 3: great ambassador of the game. He's one of the great
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: thinkers of the game. I think Phil Nicholson is a
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: great person in the game. Having said that, he also
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: has demonstrated an ability to exercise poor judgment, and I
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: would just observe that as soon as the lawyers are involved,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: when we are quoting lawyers, you've already lost. It's a
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: question you're negotiating the terms of your loss, and I'm
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: afraid that that might be where we are with Phil.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: It is so sad to me that one of the
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: great people in the game historically will now have this
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: big asterisk on his legacy. I'm just sad about it.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It's unfortunate to see whenever the great athletes, the great
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: achievers in any sport, you know, fall from that pedestal
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: that we put them on. Back to the US Open,
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  Speaker 2: before I let you go, Wyndham Clark or the field,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: if you had to take one heading in with a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: four shot, four stroke lead into Saturday and Sunday, what's
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  Speaker 2: you're taken.
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  Speaker 3: I'm taking the field, And no disrespect to Wyndham Clark.
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  Speaker 3: Holy cow, he's a great player, and he's won a
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: US Open. The US Open he won at at the
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: LACC was in a fundamentally different kind of golf course
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: than Shinnecock. But the reality is he's got a four
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: shot lead right now. However, in taking the field, even
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: in the top ten, look at all those major winners
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  Speaker 3: you're gonna give me. I'm gonna take that group.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Paul Pugmyer. You can hear him on Utah Golf Radio
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: right here on ESPN seven hundred and ninety TWOE FM
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: eight to ten am on Saturday mornings, powered by t Box.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I always appreciate your time and your insight, Paul, enjoy
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: the rest of this US open.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you, so appreciate it.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Paul thug Meyer, great stuff. As is always the case,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: that conversation brought to you by you win to golf.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Father's Day shopping starts and ends that you win too golf.
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