Latest / Sarah Knows Support Workers / HireUp CEO Peter Willis on NDIS Leadership, Support Workers and the Future of Disability Care

Transcript

HireUp CEO Peter Willis on NDIS Leadership, Support Workers and the Future of Disability Care · Sarah Knows Support Workers

0:00
Hi, everyone. It's Sarah.
0:02
No support workers today. I'm a little bit excited about
0:04
this one because you've actually been on my dream list of people
0:08
to podcast with. I've actually got Peter from
0:11
higher up the CEO. Congratulations.
0:13
Sarah, hi, Ron. Thank you.
0:16
It was just really cool to have you on because you're quite a
0:19
big provider across Australia and you provide a lot of
0:22
services to NDIS and aged care participants, but also have a
0:25
lot of support workers. So today's episode is a little
0:28
bit exciting, so you want to get straight into it.
0:31
Let's do it. All right.
0:33
OK. So you didn't just start at a
0:35
CEO. Let's just take it back a little
0:38
bit. You originally What originally
0:41
got you to hire? Yeah, it's a great question,
0:43
though. So I've been at heart for about
0:45
6 years, including the COVID Time Warp.
0:53
Yeah, about 6-7 years ago, I was in management consulting.
0:56
So I was working with governments and nonprofit,
0:59
nonprofit providers and a lot around the NDIS, including at
1:03
the NDIA. So that was really, you know,
1:08
there was so much energy and excitement.
1:10
I mean, there still is, but you know, in 20/18/20, 2017,
1:13
2018-2019, there was so much energy and excitement around the
1:16
NDIS. And also around that time a
1:19
cousin of mine really unfortunately had a spinal cord
1:24
injury, quite a spinal cord. He jumped into a river and
1:30
fractured his vertebrae in a number of places and so became
1:33
an NDIS participant. And it was really that kind of
1:37
that personal experience of seeing his journey through
1:42
hospitalization and rehab then kind of into actually emerged
1:47
into residential aged care as a 4040 in his 40s was really
1:51
challenging. But just kind of understanding
1:52
how the NDS was working and not working with him.
1:54
And then seeing me at the NDAA and I just thought this is
1:57
something I want to be involved with.
1:59
That was where it started with me.
2:01
I was like, I want to, I want to work for a, for a disability
2:03
provider and I was looking around and I met the folks at
2:06
Higher up and we could talk more about that.
2:08
But I met the folks at Higher Up and the energy and the purpose
2:11
and the passion and also the commercial.
2:13
You know, it's a, it's a for profit business as well as being
2:16
a for purpose business. It was just all the mix of those
2:19
things and just going to the office and seeing the people
2:20
would just, well, yeah, this is a spot for me.
2:22
And then it's kind of gone from there.
2:25
So you worked in consultancy and public policy.
2:28
What were what did those year like those years when you're
2:31
working? What did they teach you that has
2:33
shaped you into the leader that you are today?
2:36
I think a couple of things when you're in those roles and you're
2:39
doing project by project. So it was like there were, there
2:41
were 6-8 week projects and you do something, you know, I worked
2:45
at Services Australia, like Centrelink, I worked at the
2:48
DAAI, worked for a number of nonprofits.
2:52
You get to experience lots of different organizations quite
2:54
quickly. Like not deeply, you don't
2:55
deeply, but you just get to see different cultures and different
2:58
ways of working. And, and so it was a nice
3:01
exposure to lots of different cultures and gave me a sense of
3:04
like, what was the kind of place that I wanted to work with?
3:06
And now I have an opportunity to shape culture and say how, how
3:09
would I want, what kind of culture would I want to create?
3:11
Learn a lot about that. But I think also the other thing
3:14
that I took away is and something that really is
3:16
important for me is the idea you can learn from anyone in life, I
3:19
believe. And at work especially.
3:22
And I think in those consulting environments, you often come in
3:25
because it's a big problem or government said we want to
3:27
reform something or something's broken.
3:30
And that can lead you down a path of thinking that, you know,
3:33
if you're not there, it won't get fixed.
3:34
And you can kind of start to think you, yeah, you've got the
3:36
answers or the, you know, you're, you know, the department
3:42
or the organization's a bit dysfunctional.
3:44
And so I think learning to try to actually stay humble and to
3:48
try and just approach everyone with an open mind and learn you
3:53
can learn something from anyone was another lesson I took away
3:55
probably by making the mistakes of just not of being maybe a bit
3:58
arrogant at times or something like that.
4:00
But yeah, they were probably the two of the main bits from from
4:03
consulting days. So you've worked with some
4:06
pretty big companies in your past.
4:07
What surprised you when you moved over into the disability
4:10
sector? Yeah, I, I think my initial
4:15
feeling was that it was just this values connection with
4:18
folks you work with and I was working with.
4:20
And it was a, it felt like home in some ways.
4:24
And it felt like I could be my full self.
4:27
And that was a surprise because I think I'd been in a lot of
4:30
work environments where you have to.
4:32
Yeah, it's, it's, it's dangerous to be truly authentic, I think
4:35
in a lot of work environments, unfortunately still.
4:37
And so that was something that really surprised me.
4:41
And the other thing I think was in a lot of other work
4:43
environments, yeah, there's this like, you've got to have the
4:46
right answer, you've got to do the right the yeah, we've got to
4:48
find out what the right thing is to do.
4:50
And that still applies in disability.
4:51
But when you, I think when you actually get close to support,
4:56
it's a bit different. Like it's a, it's a different
4:58
care and support. It's a different kind of work.
5:02
It's not always about having the right answer or being the
5:04
smartest person in the room. It's very different when you're
5:09
supporting someone day-to-day. And the kind of skills that you
5:12
need to be successful are very different.
5:15
You need to, yeah, you just need to be a much better listener and
5:19
open. And so I think that that flows
5:21
through into the organization. And I think understanding the
5:25
diversity of skills that you need to be successful in this
5:28
sector, it's not just enough to have, you know, the right answer
5:31
or, you know, the computer says we should do this and go do it.
5:33
You know what I mean? It's just it's a much more.
5:36
But a sense of purpose. Yeah, exactly.
5:39
Exactly. Yeah.
5:40
What was the biggest mindset shift moving from consultancy to
5:45
operations in a NDIS business? Because very much.
5:50
Yeah, Look, I think it's around building a team and finding the
5:54
right people to build a team with and the variety of
5:59
different people you need in your team.
6:00
And I've been really lucky at higher up in these operational
6:05
contexts to work with lots of different people.
6:09
And I think there's a kind of interesting topic here also
6:11
around neurodiversity and intersecting with that, but just
6:14
people who approach topics and things that we're working on.
6:20
Maybe it's a crisis, but someone who's just sitting there looking
6:23
at it a little bit differently. And I think you need to find
6:26
people like that and you need to have them bring them around you.
6:30
And you need to think about more about how your team is set up
6:33
for the longer term and to cover all across a lot of different
6:36
scenarios. It's definitely something that
6:38
I've learned about operating in the NDS environment because no
6:41
day is the same. And so.
6:44
Yeah. And you want, you want a
6:46
diversity of minds, you want a diversity of views, You want
6:49
that debate. You know, what's the right thing
6:51
to do here? All the different angles do.
6:54
You have a sports background because you bring up a lot about
6:56
teamwork. No, I will.
6:59
I mean, I do play hockey very badly on the on the weekend,
7:04
still either very amateur or ice on grass.
7:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:09
I've, I've watched the ice hockey, but no, yeah, no grass.
7:13
Yeah. Like, I don't know.
7:15
I just feel it's fun being part of.
7:17
It's a good team, I think. Yeah.
7:20
It feels like it all connects and it makes you want to come
7:23
into work. Yeah, totally.
7:26
Yeah, I've I've been in good teams, I've been in great teams
7:29
and I have been in bad ones and it does make a difference.
7:33
Yeah. And you're right because there
7:36
are some really quirky people that work in our sector and
7:40
thank God because. 100. Percent, yeah, because they can
7:43
see a problem and the way that they approach a problem was
7:46
completely different to how I would see and how I would
7:48
respond. And disability, there's no black
7:51
and white is all these Shades of Grey in between of how to get to
7:55
that problem and solve it. Correct.
7:57
The amount of times we've been sitting, you know, an escalated
8:01
situational class and, and the whole group is running.
8:04
So, you know, we've got to get this, you know, this is the we
8:06
need to move so quickly. And then somebody's just saying,
8:09
hey, I've just looked at these two reports and something
8:12
doesn't quite add up. I think we need to ask a few
8:14
more questions here. You know, maybe we should go and
8:17
pay the person to visit and get a bit ready for about.
8:20
And then it turns out there's something we've completely
8:21
missed and you know, we're going to go off in a different
8:23
direction. It's it's kind of hope when you
8:26
say those situations. Well, you held multiple roles
8:31
before becoming ACEO. How did each of the roles that
8:35
you've had at Higher Up help you step into your leadership style?
8:39
Yeah, I think there's a, each time I had a new leadership
8:45
role, I had an opportunity to start, start again.
8:48
And I also had the opportunity to higher up to build a lot of
8:50
teams and, and to start new areas of work.
8:52
So I started in this, you know, industry engagement, which was
8:56
really about building our engagement with the sector with
8:59
support coordinators, plan managers, all sorts of groups
9:02
around the sector and building great relationships and
9:03
partnerships. And then I went in and started
9:06
our individualized living ILO in our court, call it HARA plus
9:10
that part of our service, our provider service, which connects
9:13
our support workers with other providers and kind of to provide
9:16
backup almost agency dull support.
9:18
So each time I get got to, you know, be a new version of myself
9:22
and to take some lessons from, you know, the good things and
9:24
the bad things from the previous role.
9:27
And that's definitely something that I've tried a lot of.
9:31
Yeah, a lot around getting the right team.
9:34
A big part of my journey has been trying to give away more of
9:39
my work to the people I'm working with, you know, in a
9:42
really positive way. Not to try and, you know, sit in
9:45
my room and write out the answer and then come and give it to
9:47
people which no one, no one likes.
9:50
Obvious reasons. But on a yeah.
9:52
And a practical level, I think I was really lucky with my early
9:55
roles to have a really broad engagement with the sector and
9:57
to have time to just go and talk to lots of different people
10:00
around our sector. And I think that there's so many
10:05
different parts, even understanding you want the
10:10
nuance of services that existed before the NDIS and might have
10:13
been more volunteer on and how the NDIS has changed that
10:15
through the kind of deep connections, relationships that
10:18
people have built over time through the newer services.
10:21
In a way, they're kind of innovating and meeting new
10:23
needs. But I feel really lucky,
10:26
especially with that industry engagement role that I had early
10:28
on, just had an excuse to go and talk to everyone and.
10:33
Yeah, you look like you're hate jobbing to people.
10:35
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:39
This, that's and everyone's just got a story and everybody's
10:43
united with this passion and purpose around how we can do
10:48
better and how we can support people, whether it's their young
10:53
family member for them or someone that I know in their
10:55
community. Yeah, I just find it so
10:59
inspiring. It sounds like you're an active
11:01
listener. Was it mostly that you got to
11:03
listen and see the problem and then act?
11:06
Yeah, I think so. I think definitely and also
11:09
trying to draw connections between different people's
11:14
challenges. And I remember when we were
11:19
exploring individualized living options in ILO and, and that
11:22
really that happened because someone in our client network
11:24
approached us and said, hey, I've been living in the
11:27
community with individualized living options for ILO funding.
11:30
I need a new housemate. Do you think I could find
11:33
someone on higher up? Maybe there's a support worker
11:35
on higher up who'd be open to be my supportive housemate and do a
11:37
little bit of support and also work as a support worker.
11:40
So we started to just do some digging around and there were
11:44
lots of groups that were doing great work with people to work
11:49
out how they wanted to live in the community.
11:51
But then they didn't always have the infrastructure to actually
11:53
go on make that support happen. Yeah.
11:56
You need the workforce, you need to kind of risk appetite, you
11:59
need compliance, all that stuff. And so just realize there are
12:01
all these different groups that had the same problem and we
12:03
could actually connect and we could provide us provide
12:06
something in the, you know, that part of the puzzle, which was
12:08
the kind of the workforce and the systems to actually help
12:12
people make that, make that possible.
12:14
Saying that was an important part of of that too, was just
12:19
connecting and joining the dots. Yeah, or trying to at least.
12:21
It's a bit of fun, isn't it? When you I'm like, you do make a
12:24
lot of mistakes because you're trying to get the combination.
12:27
Right, so many mistakes. When, when they connect and when
12:30
it works, it's kind of special. And it's not until like a little
12:33
bit later, like, yeah, I was, I was part of that person's story
12:35
and they were able to live independently because I was able
12:39
to find and connect them in ways.
12:41
It's quite special. Yes, Yeah, yeah, that's right.
12:45
That's right. I think there are people who,
12:48
yeah, I, I always felt in especially, you know, when you
12:51
have people with disability who are really deeply connecting the
12:56
community. I think there's just often a lot
12:58
of people in support coordination type roles.
13:01
Sometimes they're so-called support coordinators, sometimes
13:03
they're not. Sometimes they're actually
13:05
support workers, sometimes they're parents or friends.
13:08
But people who are really, and I think they're really some unsung
13:12
heroes in our sector, yeah. Yes, yeah, This is curious about
13:19
this one because you're the head of industry engagement.
13:22
So I've got a story for you. So I worked with some guy for
13:25
nearly two decades and I said, hey, can you like, I'm surprised
13:29
you're not following my content. We've, you know, we've known it
13:32
for a very long time. And he said to me that I wasn't
13:35
John Cena enough to follow. So is there anything that you
13:39
did that was in your engagement role to draw in NDIS and age
13:44
care participants to service? Because I find that would be and
13:49
a lot of people that I speak to is one of the hardest things to
13:51
do to look. Yeah, yeah.
13:55
I mean, yeah, yeah, it would be a huge question, right.
13:58
I think our approach was to find, we tried lots of things,
14:04
which we tried lots of things. And our approach was generally
14:09
to try and engage with groups or individuals that had trusted
14:12
relationships with the people we were trying to reach.
14:15
And, but it's hard to do at scale.
14:17
We, you know, we, we did partnerships with folks like
14:23
Special Olympics, which I was really proud of.
14:24
We did a great partnership with them where we probably the
14:27
highlight of that was that they they would do state based games
14:31
and national games and we paid for support workers to go and
14:34
attend to support, which I think was a great way that you kind
14:38
of, you know, getting the brand out there.
14:40
Yes, getting the influence out there, but actually doing it in
14:43
an authentic way by giving some folks work support workers, but
14:49
also showing that you're you're not just a faceless company.
14:52
That's actually like, you know, This is why people people come
14:55
to hire ultimately for support workers and support workers come
14:58
because this opportunity for work.
14:59
So I think it was it was really about trying to find people who
15:02
could influence and and just making their life easier.
15:06
Was there another point was if we could make life easier for
15:08
support coordinates, for example, then that would that
15:11
would kind of help us in finding people to support.
15:14
But yeah, constant challenge, but fun.
15:16
The fun challenge, you know? Well, you guys have.
15:20
Didn't try that, John Cena. Beautiful story of how higher up
15:23
began the founder story I believe Shane.
15:27
Yeah, yeah. Shane and then how it grew to
15:30
where it is today. So it has really always had that
15:34
beautiful foundation that it is built around one person and it
15:38
is expanded itself into the platform that it is today. 100%
15:42
and I think we we all still tell Shane's story.
15:45
And for folks who don't know, Shane was the brother of Jordan
15:50
and Laura O'Reilly, who founded Higher up.
15:52
Shane lived with cerebral palsy and he relied on support every
15:55
day. He sadly passed away before
15:57
higher up kind of became what it was.
15:59
But I think Jordan and Laura still deeply involved in the
16:01
business and their mum as well, saw her just this week in the
16:05
background of Zoom. And yeah, there's, there's
16:08
different ways that, you know, we keep the spirit of why Harp
16:14
was founded alive, including a couple of years ago where Laura
16:17
talks about she had a conversation with her mum about
16:19
would Shane use higher up today? And her mum said something
16:23
really surprising, which was like, I don't think we would
16:25
like, I think, you know, it's, it's too, it's too hard to
16:29
manage, you know, to manage the whole this platform admin
16:33
myself, I think I might have gone to to a more traditional
16:37
provider. And so that then sparked a whole
16:39
bunch of work that we started to do to think about or how could
16:41
we make the platform more accessible?
16:43
How could we build additional services and support for people
16:46
who had, you know, you might have a team of 10 support
16:48
workers as a client and going in every day and, you know,
16:52
improving shifts or trying to find a replacement backup when
16:54
someone can't make it. It's really hard.
16:57
So yeah, it's really something that's really at the heart of
17:00
the organization and of our culture.
17:02
Is that a client focus? Not many organizations have
17:06
that, So what a way to honor somebody.
17:11
Yeah, it's a nice way to put it, yeah.
17:13
It's very special, in fact. Yeah.
17:17
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's what I've gathered.
17:19
And I think also I, because I'm a sector nerd, I love watching a
17:23
story of why people open up businesses, why they do what
17:27
they do and how they got there. And there's something just
17:30
really special about higher up in that story.
17:33
Yeah, it's pretty. It's, it was so lucky.
17:35
Yeah. Now, at times in your career you
17:38
were a general manager at one point, I dare say you'd have to
17:41
make some really tough decisions.
17:43
Is there a tough decision that you're allowed to share with us
17:45
that you've had to make at higher up as a general manager?
17:49
Yeah, I think the tough decisions were really often
17:55
around, around people I think are the really hard decisions.
18:01
We, yeah, we've been through at least one period where we had to
18:05
reduce the number of staff that we had in our, in our team at
18:09
the Harf support office. And that's that, that was really
18:14
hard moment. And you know, it's, it's
18:16
complicated because, you know, in your role, you understand
18:20
that you need to take certain decisions in order for the
18:22
business to be sustainable and to move on and to keep going.
18:25
And but, yeah, it doesn't lessen the impact when you're sitting
18:28
down with an individual and trying to explain what's
18:31
happening. So I think they've been, they've
18:33
been really the most challenging times.
18:35
But you learn, you also learn a lot in that as an individual.
18:37
Yeah. You're right, it's never fun.
18:40
It's never fun to say why, but I guess you would have learned
18:44
quite a bit. Did it change or alter the way
18:46
that you manage moving forward? Yeah, I think, I think it really
18:49
helped. I can be a bit indirect, I think
18:51
sometimes with folks, and I do like talking, as I said, but I
18:55
think it just helped me understand that sometimes the
18:58
kindest thing to do is just to be really clear.
18:59
And sometimes the thing that's making you be indirect is your
19:03
own feelings or your own worry about how they're going to
19:06
perceive you. And you just have to be, you
19:09
just have to be clear and sometimes quite direct and not
19:12
rude. Absolutely the.
19:15
Way that you explain it. And sometimes I think to myself,
19:17
I just got to be more of a support worker.
19:19
Yeah, yeah. How I communicate and how I do
19:22
it and do it in a way that another person could understand.
19:25
It's all communication I get. 100% it is all communication.
19:28
That's totally right. And do you know what I think
19:31
what's awesome about what you just said there, Sarah, is like,
19:34
it's the consciousness of how you have to show up.
19:37
I think half the time the battle is just, you know, having that
19:41
conversation with yourself. How am I supposed to show up
19:43
here? Like half the time you're on
19:44
autopilot, whatever, just talking to people, looking here,
19:47
looking at your emails, whatever.
19:49
Just even even that ability to be like how should I show up at
19:53
this moment, I think is pretty awesome and great when you can
19:58
achieve it. I at one point I used to drive
20:01
to work and I spent I reckon 15 minutes on the way to work
20:05
having all the battles and all the to's and from's of a
20:07
conversation I'm about to have because it's quite a delicate 1.
20:10
And then at night time I spend the whole thing going to
20:13
breathing to myself. Sarah wanted to do this.
20:17
Or you put it in that like it's hard because you can put out
20:21
information and how someone perceives it and takes it on
20:24
board could be very different. And I can guarantee there were a
20:28
couple of times that I didn't see that as a result, even
20:30
though I role played it in my head for the 15 minute drive, I
20:34
didn't get it right. And that's just part of being
20:36
human, I suppose. Yeah, that's right.
20:39
Totally right. And I think, yeah, that's right.
20:43
It's just part of being human. Was there any moments when
20:46
you're at higher up in the beginning, like as a manager,
20:49
general manager, They're like, OK, I could actually lead this
20:52
whole thing one day. Like Booya Gomeo, I've got this.
20:55
Did you ever have it? I can't think of one single
20:58
moment, no, but but what I would say is that through my time at
21:02
Harvard developed a really close relationship with Laura
21:05
O'Reilly, especially one of the founders in the pre and the CEO
21:08
just before me. And she, she's been a great
21:10
mentor and support and she pulled me aside at some point on
21:15
the journey and said, you know, we've been through a succession
21:18
planning exercise and I think you can do the job one day.
21:23
And it was quite a long time before I took on the job.
21:28
That was, I don't think when she said it, I didn't think I could.
21:32
Yeah. So I wouldn't, I say it.
21:33
That was, I wouldn't say that was the moment, but I said that
21:36
that was a that that was a really wonderful thing that I
21:40
experienced. I'm very, very thankful and
21:41
grateful to her to do that. It's lovely.
21:47
I always think sometimes it's like little moments that add up
21:50
and then and then you're like, actually, I could because I say
21:54
it'd be quite overwhelming for that because it's it's quite big
21:58
organization. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:00
And there's a lot of responsibility for people and
22:03
that's it's not just admin side of the platform.
22:06
There's support workers there, NDIS participants, there's our
22:09
age care participants and then there's family support
22:12
coordinators. That's a lot of people.
22:16
Totally right, yeah. And, and I have, yeah, it's been
22:19
one of the awesome privileges of taking on the CEO role.
22:22
But yeah, there's, there's lots of decisions to be made, lots of
22:26
things to weigh up. By the time it gets to you, it's
22:28
generally quite complicated, you know?
22:31
Yeah. So, so yeah, that's right.
22:33
And it's a big scale. Now we have, it's like this
22:36
14,000 support workers who did a shift of some thought, some
22:39
thought some sort last year, 12,000 clients.
22:42
Yeah, it's, it's really big. Yeah, yeah.
22:45
How do you protect the culture when you get promoted within?
22:50
Yeah, I think, I think on the culture, I think it's a lot
22:56
about the stories you tell and the things you celebrate.
22:59
And I think promoting people with from within can can
23:03
actually be really good culturally if you do it in the
23:05
right way. Well, you should know back to
23:08
front. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
23:10
At least at least you've kind of you've seen it.
23:13
And I think the other thing, the nice thing about the commercial
23:16
and then you've experienced it at different levels.
23:17
Like I think I still know. I still, you know, in my mind
23:21
often just feel like I'm the person I was six years ago when
23:24
I started and, you know, just trying to work out the
23:26
organization kind. Of like the trolley boy and
23:28
you've worked. Away Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
23:32
But yeah, I I think it's really about this yeah, it's really
23:37
about the stories and and the way you talk about what good
23:42
looks like can celebrate it and we we have nice rituals.
23:45
We have all all team meetings and we always start with welcome
23:50
to country, obviously, but then a community story.
23:52
So a story from our community where you know, someone in the
23:54
team will talk about maybe it's a win actually with a client or
23:58
worker or something new that we're doing and just little
24:02
rituals like that that are really story based, I think do a
24:05
massive job in setting culture. Because your team is spread
24:08
across all of Australia, is it not?
24:10
It's not. I know Melbourne's your heart,
24:12
but everywhere, it's everywhere else in between.
24:15
Yeah, well, I'm in Melbourne, but I'd actually say probably
24:18
Sydney. Sydney is probably the heart of
24:19
higher up, but there's. Yeah.
24:21
So we've got folks in Brisbane and Tassie, Adelaide, Earth,
24:25
yeah, all over Australia at this point.
24:27
How do you source these people? Where how do you find them?
24:29
Is it like a normal hiring way where you'd put it out to the
24:33
market or is it do you find people you think I think you'd
24:36
fit well and higher up? Yeah, look, a bit of both.
24:40
And it depends a bit on the role because we, our organization,
24:42
we've got, you know, it's a half of it is a is a tech company
24:48
with software engineers and designers and product managers
24:51
and data scientists, you know, and then half of it is a
24:55
disability provider with racial staff quality practice teams,
25:00
trust and safety, you know, relationship management, worker
25:05
recruitment or so it's quite it's quite an interesting
25:07
organization in, in kind of making all that suit or all that
25:10
work, but just so different people we find in different
25:12
places. But we do one thing I'm really
25:14
proud of is we do have a decent flow of people who come from our
25:19
support worker workforce into our team and then into various
25:23
roles. And there are people who have
25:26
moved from our support worker workforce into lots of different
25:29
roles and I think including once a long way away from support
25:33
work and some that are still close to it.
25:34
And that's that's also an awesome source of recruitment
25:37
for us because, yeah, the amount of people said, Oh yeah, it was
25:41
the harp support work. And I was just looking at the
25:42
job ads on the Heart website and I saw this one and I applied for
25:45
it. Yeah.
25:46
Then how can you argue with that hands on experience?
25:49
You know it's awesome. I get to get a lot of uni
25:51
students coming through as well on placement and then being able
25:55
to feel how it was to be a support work and then work in
25:58
the business and see the backgrounds and knowing it the
26:01
best. Yeah, that that's also and also
26:03
folks who allied health students who'll come in and work as
26:06
support workers and then go on into, you know, the allied
26:09
health field and be OTS and Sykes and I think that's.
26:13
Awesome. Our duty isn't it as sorry, our
26:16
duty in the disability sector if they're coming in as allied
26:19
health and we're showing them and supporting them how to eat
26:23
this practice to work with somebody with a disability.
26:26
So when they've got those skills and they take them off and do
26:29
their careers and be the OTS and speeches of the well, they've
26:32
they've already got it. They've had that hands on.
26:34
Totally. Yep, I do see that as our job
26:37
and responsibility that we're sending people into these
26:40
professions knowing how to communicate.
26:43
Yeah, great. And I'm glad you said that.
26:45
Communicate because at one point we got quite interested in this
26:49
space and you know, I was talking about partnerships and
26:51
meeting and we would, and in previous roles at higher up and
26:54
we were meeting with lots of allied HealthPartners and
26:58
talking to lots of ex higher up support workers who'd gone on to
27:02
work in allied health. And communication was always the
27:05
point that they brought up as as what they took away from their
27:07
support work time, talking about communicate with individuals but
27:11
also their families. Yeah, yeah.
27:13
I think it's really important. It's, it's, I feel like a duty.
27:18
Yeah, yeah. So I, it's not just that, but
27:21
you also receive, I believe as a support worker, really cool life
27:24
skills that you can use across every area of your life that you
27:28
didn't even know that like you needed.
27:30
But it being a support worker has got me out of some very
27:33
tricky conversations or you know, how to explain something
27:37
and break down an activity for someone.
27:39
If I had not have had that experience as a support worker,
27:42
I would not have those skills today. 100%, yeah, yeah, 100%
27:47
parenting skills. Yeah, it's it's, yeah, it's
27:49
really helpful. Learn how to use dishwasher, a
27:53
dryer, a washing machine. Yeah, working in people's
27:56
houses, but also how to communicate really sticky
27:59
situations. Yeah, I could probably work at
28:03
the UN. I probably start out a few
28:05
domestic problems symbol well, it's really good feels.
28:10
So when you officially stepped in as the role of CEO, what felt
28:15
heavier than you expected? Yeah, I think yeah, there was
28:19
def. I was.
28:19
There's definitely a feeling of OK, you're you're actually
28:23
responsible for. A lot of people.
28:26
All these people, yeah, there's definitely a feeling of that,
28:30
Like that's true, but it's also not true.
28:33
Like, yeah, like it's you're, you can kind of overemphasize, I
28:38
think the reliance on yourself. And that's a bit of a trap.
28:43
Yeah, that's a bit of a trap. But you do have that sense of
28:46
responsibility. I think also, you know, in the
28:50
NDIS world, there are, you know, like the kind of the compliance
28:55
responsibilities that we have, the data and privacy, you know,
29:00
cyber, keeping the organization safe, keeping our clients and
29:04
workers safe. There's some of the things that
29:08
you start to think I actually like if I'm not, if I'm not
29:12
directing attention towards that through through other people,
29:15
then you have the potential to actually cause harm.
29:17
So I think there's some of the things that that you do think
29:20
about which is appropriate, honestly.
29:22
But yeah, that you kind of realize if it's not me, then
29:25
who's it going to be? You know, like it, I'm not going
29:27
to be able to do the work myself.
29:28
But if I'm not thinking about this or if I'm, if I'm a bit
29:31
LAX, then yeah, we there's no one else who's going.
29:34
To sometimes miss the part that with higher up you actually do
29:38
do a lot of training of your support workers.
29:40
Yeah, yeah. On the platform to ensure that
29:43
the person that turns up is the best fit for them.
29:46
I think sometimes we forget that part.
29:49
So it's not like instead of yet they do have to meet your their
29:54
standards. Of hiring.
29:56
Yeah, is support worker, so it's not just anybody gets in.
29:59
That's right. And yeah, I think that's yeah.
30:01
With at heart, we've always tried to walk the line between
30:04
choice and control for clients and workers.
30:07
So clients get to choose who they work with and workers get
30:09
to choose who they work with too, which is actually like we
30:12
talk a lot about choice control clients rightly, but it's also
30:14
the worker side. I think it's really critical.
30:17
And so we try to walk the line of that and the kind of freedom
30:19
that creates and the the, yeah, just the autonomy.
30:23
And we think that's really, really important.
30:24
But also with the kind of safety and compliance that we've always
30:27
been registered and we've always employed our workers.
30:29
And yeah, it's, it's a really nice tension to, you know, sit
30:34
with. But for us, it's, it's about
30:36
trying to do the right thing and be the best version of a
30:39
provider that it's meets the kind of principle of the scheme.
30:43
Yeah. But you guys are quite reactive
30:45
very quickly because I, I, well, Peter, I had used higher up at a
30:52
organization when I was stuck on support stuff and I needed
30:56
somebody to jump in And because sometimes it was very last
31:00
minute, if I could, you know, get somebody to provide care for
31:03
a certain person. Is it I take it you guys have
31:06
got a really quick reaction or on call or something happens?
31:09
Because I remember some a incident occurred and you guys
31:13
were just like on it. I was like, meet the punch and
31:16
I'm pretty fast. Yeah, nice.
31:19
Yeah. No, look, yeah, we've got yeah,
31:22
yeah. No, I think I read once on a
31:25
grassroots post someone said, oh, hi, yeah, they've got a
31:28
website and five staff members. And I was like, Oh yeah, I kind
31:32
of died a bit inside of like, no, there's, there's, there's
31:34
about 300 folks in our support officer.
31:36
Yeah, as you say, are doing like whether it's incident response
31:39
or, you know, if if a worker cancels and the client reaches
31:43
out and trying to find someone, someone new.
31:46
Yeah. So definitely that's a big part
31:50
of what we what we, we just say we just need to keep trying to
31:54
be more responsive and quicker and many people's needs and.
31:58
It was quick, I will give you that, and I think my part was a
32:02
little bit annoyed because I thought I was quick.
32:04
Yeah, I'm sure we are very quick, Sarah.
32:08
Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I like small
32:10
problems, not big ones, and I don't give them an opportunity
32:12
to grow. Yes, that's good.
32:15
It's good mentality. Yeah, yeah.
32:17
Now with with higher up you guys are going through I think it is
32:21
July the first you guys have got the platform changes under the
32:25
NDI. I'm going to assume that like
32:27
it's there like every other provider, but you're not that
32:30
worried because you knew it's. Coming, there's no surprises
32:34
here. No, that's right.
32:35
And I think it's, it's an interesting one because we've
32:38
actually been registered for for a while really since we started
32:43
and also registered in kind of behavior support registered in
32:49
high intensity areas. So we, yeah, we're, we are in
32:52
favor of the platform changes and we just, we think it's good.
32:56
But yeah, it definitely keeps adding new things for us to
32:59
think about. And, and your point about the
33:02
training, I think is a big part of how we make that more
33:08
adaptive around the actual individual.
33:11
There's lots of, you know, if you look at a behaviour support
33:13
plan that's 40 pages, incredibly dense.
33:16
How do we, how do we actually make that more accessible for
33:21
someone? There's lots of interesting
33:22
opportunities for AI. Yeah.
33:23
So I think registration kind of helps push us into this space.
33:27
So we're we're we're, we're quite supportive of it in the
33:31
platform field and it'll be interesting to see.
33:34
I saw the minister Butler talked about pantry registration for
33:39
all providers, and it'd be interesting to see what happens
33:42
in that space. Yeah.
33:43
I'm OK with it to be honest. The fact that it wasn't set and
33:48
that people aren't audited or have high expectations or a
33:51
benchmark scares me more. And the benefits, if I had a
33:55
crystal ball with all the changes that is occurring,
33:58
people having to do registration and having to do you expect that
34:02
you might end up with more support workers this way because
34:06
providers are choosing not to register or it might just be
34:10
coming a little bit too hard for some people and hire us give you
34:15
like does give support workers flexibilities of the days that
34:17
they work. Yeah, possibly.
34:19
I, I think so. And I think that's a question
34:22
for us to yeah, to, to work on is how, how can, how could hire
34:29
up be a great spot for people to come to, I mean, at any point in
34:34
time for workers to, to come to. Yeah, we think that's really,
34:39
really important that we're really attractive option for
34:42
workers and doing lots of work on that.
34:45
And we'd love feedback from anyone listening or watching of
34:48
the ways we can make it better. Please, please get in touch.
34:50
But yes, certainly in the case if there's, if there's
34:52
disruption to the to the market, that's, that's definitely
34:55
possible. And I think what we, what we're,
34:59
we're just trying to prove is that you can be registered but
35:01
also have the choice and flexibility.
35:03
And it's not like a black and white unregistered providers
35:06
means choice and flexibility. Registered providers means
35:09
everything's locked down, policy driven, no choice.
35:12
Yeah, I think we're trying to prove that there's an option in
35:14
the middle and with others, others also in that space.
35:17
But you also got the option for participants because they can
35:21
come to you as a kid and see a whole life approach way beyond
35:25
their sixties, 70s and 80s because you do have the aged
35:28
care part hundreds. Was it always the approach of
35:30
higher up to look at it as a full life approach or was it
35:33
something that came a little bit longer?
35:35
It actually, it actually came. It wasn't always the approach
35:37
and I think we had a lot of really interesting conversations
35:40
about aged care early doors. And I think there was, you know,
35:44
we wanted to be respectful of the fact that just because
35:48
people with disability and old Australians need support doesn't
35:50
mean that they're just like 1 clump of people.
35:53
You know, like there's actually like lots of different needs
35:55
and, and you know, people in different stages of life need
35:58
different things. But Laura and Jordan had an
36:00
interesting experience a couple of years ago with their
36:01
grandfather. Frank actually got to the point
36:05
where he needed support and they said, well, you should just jump
36:08
on higher up. And that experience of seeing
36:09
how well, how it worked for their grandfather, I guess was a
36:13
bit of a proof point for like, hey, we should actually go after
36:16
this and, and there's something we can do here.
36:19
But again, it was kind of following that personal story
36:21
and. Yep, but then now a few.
36:24
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah.
36:28
You had to source it. Yeah, that's right.
36:31
Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's been
36:33
going quite well. That's been going quite well for
36:34
us. And it's, it's also I think
36:40
helps with the mix of work for our workforce, also the work
36:42
with with other providers. I think our a lot of our workers
36:46
really appreciate the opportunity to maybe go and work
36:48
as part of a team or you get a get like a really long shift
36:52
often like an 8 hour shift or something.
36:54
Thinking it's like a taste tester, isn't it?
36:56
Because I can have a test like taste what it feels like to work
36:59
in groups. I can feel what it works like in
37:01
somebody's home, in a SEAL home, in community.
37:04
I have an opportunity. My no day is ever going to be
37:07
the same. It's where the work is and
37:09
whether I'm the perfect match for that that person or group.
37:12
Right. Imagine all the upskilling you
37:15
could have because you had all these opportunity to work with
37:17
so many, like a variety of different people from all age
37:20
groups and disabilities. Totally right.
37:22
Totally right. Yep, Yep.
37:24
Yeah, yeah. I think it's some yeah, it's a
37:27
really good experience. Our challenge is how do you get,
37:31
how do you guarantee people consistency alongside all those,
37:34
all the opportunities to work? But I think our our support
37:39
workers tell us that's great and it's great if it's well paid,
37:42
but how can we get some consistency?
37:44
And that's something that we're always working on and thinking
37:47
about ways to kind of get people the work they want.
37:50
It's a difficult 1, isn't it? Because when we're talking about
37:53
consistency, it's about who as a participant has actual hours
37:59
that need support and does it align with this person?
38:01
Because you could be a perfect match, but if you're at uni or
38:04
if you're working your other job or your family life in between,
38:08
you might not match. So support workers, we do have
38:11
to be quite flexible to get those hours.
38:14
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And yeah, it's humans and life
38:17
and complicated. Yeah, yeah, lots of our workers,
38:21
like all workers, have other caring responsibilities for
38:23
themselves, you know, their own kids or yeah, it's there's lots
38:26
to struggle. Some of them amaze me I will say
38:29
like there's I remember 1 support worker that I had had
38:33
like 6 kids but somehow always turned up on time like all and
38:37
felt like ready like you know and wanting to be a part of it.
38:41
So there's some really amazing support workers out there, and I
38:43
know you have some amazing support workers out there
38:46
because I've seen them first hand.
38:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally right.
38:50
Yep. Yeah, I agree.
38:52
I completely agree. So how do you stay connected
38:55
with support workers beings not in their homes and with them?
39:01
Yeah. Well, I think, I mean I have
39:04
been, I've done support work through the higher up platform,
39:07
which is nice. I think a really.
39:09
Not like an Undercover Boss segment.
39:11
Like something like that you. Get up with a wig.
39:14
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
39:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's awesome because it
39:19
like it's, it's a it's just rewarding.
39:21
I always find it rewarding to to do that and spend time with
39:24
people. But it's also gives you first
39:26
hand experience of your own service and product and you
39:29
pretty quickly get a handle on what's working, what's not.
39:31
But then this is something that would just be talk about lots as
39:35
a team and whether it's listening to phone calls that
39:38
are happening between our community and our team going out
39:41
and visiting providers that we're providing workers to.
39:44
On Monday this week, I was in Adelaide and I spent the day in
39:46
Adelaide and we're chatting to a bunch of the providers that we
39:48
work with in Adelaide and kind of, but I think I, I think it's
39:53
so critical. It's an awesome question.
39:54
It's so critical because it's really easy to lose touch and
39:59
and dynamics can shift and change.
40:01
You know, 5-6 years ago. Maybe seven years ago, there
40:08
weren't, there weren't as many people work support workers
40:11
working through ABNS. Yeah.
40:14
And that's really changed. And that's.
40:15
It's OK. That's a completely different
40:17
dynamic. Understand what's happening
40:18
there and why. So, yeah, you really stay in
40:20
touch. So it's hard and you got to work
40:22
on it and get out of the office because you can just sit and do
40:25
emails and meetings and. Yeah.
40:28
You've got a really good point. If you're a new provider, you
40:31
can actually source your whole team from higher up.
40:34
You can, yeah. Yeah, you.
40:35
Can you can source all the support workers and line it up
40:38
that way to start? Yeah, a lot of like providers,
40:43
they start very like narrow and and the pool of support workers
40:46
that they've got takes a lot to get there and the cost to
40:50
onboard them as well and oversee them to ensure that they are
40:55
doing what they said they were going to do.
40:57
Totally right. And we see we have providers
41:01
that use us in all different ways that that's it's not the
41:03
bulk of our business, but I think it's definitely an area
41:05
that I'm very excited about doing more because I think
41:08
there's ways we can share our workforce.
41:10
And we see providers who like maybe they want to go to a new
41:12
state. So they'll they've got a great
41:15
home base in New South Wales, but they want to go to
41:17
Queensland. And so they'll actually use HARP
41:19
support workers to start their operations in Queensland for
41:21
three months and then they might and then they might actually
41:24
offer permanent employment to those higher up support because
41:27
in their service. So that's something that we we
41:29
kind of encourage and work with providers on because if the
41:31
workers want that, then great, then we shouldn't stand in the
41:34
way. Yeah, yeah.
41:36
It is a good opportunity and I think some like sometimes we
41:39
don't always see that as the opportunity, especially for new
41:42
providers. That's cool to hear.
41:44
How would your team describe your leadership style?
41:48
Good question. Definitely we have a good
41:50
authentic culture. There would definitely be some
41:52
jokes about my bad jokes or ugly slides.
41:58
Yeah, bad jokes, bad jokes and ugly slides.
42:00
I think that's a probably. I think that's a strategic and
42:06
authentic. I think maybe 2 words.
42:08
You might find out on Monday morning.
42:10
That's right after this podcast, exactly.
42:13
Yes. Well, sure, I'll get some
42:14
feedback. Yes.
42:16
On feedback, how do you handle criticism, especially in this
42:19
sector? And it can be quite emotionally
42:21
charged. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:23
I, I think someone thought it's cliche, but someone said to me,
42:27
feedback's a gift, you know, and I try to, I try to centre on
42:31
that. I think in those moments like,
42:33
and also you can learn, you can learn from anyone.
42:35
Feedback is a gift. So try to come back to that.
42:38
And also sometimes, sometimes like there's really challenging
42:41
situations that our clients, our support workers, our staff are
42:46
in. And sometimes your job is
42:47
actually just to listen. And even when someone's
42:49
sometimes very upset, your job is actually just to be the
42:52
person that they can express those feelings to.
42:55
And that's just your, your kind of job in the moment.
42:58
Your job is not trying to fix anything or to be defensive,
43:01
just to listen. And, and sometimes that's,
43:03
that's hard to get your head around because, you know, if
43:06
you're in a charred, highly heightened moment, you have, you
43:09
want to react or you want to defend yourself or yourself.
43:12
But I think, yeah, sometimes your job is actually just to
43:15
listen. And that can be the, that can be
43:18
the way forward just to keep showing up prepared to listen.
43:21
Yeah. With that criticism coming from
43:24
our NDIS HK participants, is there a way that they're able to
43:28
deliver feedback to you guys that sits in their communication
43:32
stuff? Yeah, so we try to be really
43:36
accessible and have like, you know, no wrong door for
43:39
complaints or concerns or feedback.
43:41
And depending on what happens, you know, sometimes people bring
43:44
stuff to my attention and I'll get involved.
43:47
Other people on the team. Yeah, we take, we take it really
43:50
seriously. I think we have a value at
43:52
heart. We've got, you know, various
43:54
values at HARA, you know, corporate values, but one value
43:59
that we have that we really cherish is we call it the person
44:02
is the point. And the kind of idea is that as
44:04
you get bigger and you have bigger as an organization,
44:08
there's this tendency to prioritize like the
44:10
organization's needs for protecting the organization or
44:15
protecting the institution over the needs of the people that
44:19
you're working with. And so the person is the point.
44:21
The idea is like actually higher up exists to support
44:25
individuals, clients, old Australians, people with
44:27
disability and support workers. It doesn't exist to be an
44:33
institution, you know. So I think that we try and take
44:36
that approach to these, to these situations.
44:38
And you know, that means really listening to people, trying to
44:42
be really flexible, understanding how we can learn
44:44
and improve. Because at the end of the day,
44:47
that's the point is not to not to kind of protect higher up or
44:51
push people away because we want to shut something down.
44:55
It'd be quite hard and difficult to at times express these type
45:00
of values with people that have never had a disability
45:02
background and especially the variety of workforce that you
45:05
have. Is this ongoing in your offices
45:09
for? Yeah, it's such a great point
45:11
too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:13
It's, it's a, it is an ongoing something that we think about.
45:18
I would. And I don't think we'd
45:19
necessarily got it right. We.
45:21
We do I. Think we ever get it right?
45:24
But we. Try No, yeah, we, we try and
45:27
emphasize the values in different ways.
45:28
We have different kind of rituals and forums to promote
45:32
them and to build understanding of them.
45:34
But it's it's hard and and things change over time and
45:38
things drift and cultures are created.
45:40
So yeah, it's a it's a constant battle.
45:44
And I think, you know, when everybody in the organization
45:47
fat, the fit fit in a small conference room, it was very
45:52
different from when everyone spread out all over the country,
45:54
you know? It's not an easy thing to do.
45:57
When I built, I feel like a lot of organizations in our sector
46:02
battle this same problem because it grew and it blew up really
46:06
quickly. Yeah, under the NDIS, where
46:09
prior it was a different set of rules and it was different
46:13
expectations. And I can slowly see the changes
46:16
going back that way, especially with the involvement of more
46:20
community settings. Yeah, like it's like a reset and
46:25
going back a little. Yeah, or even SEAL, it looked
46:29
like the government was talking about maybe, you know, creating
46:31
a panel of providers for SEAL or directly commissioning SEAL.
46:34
I think we still got, it's not an area that harps involved, but
46:37
I think we, yeah, was pretty interested to see that because
46:41
that felt, you know, like quite a quite a change from where we
46:44
are. Yeah, 100.
46:45
Percent. And if so, because I get quite a
46:48
lot of support workers, listen to the podcast.
46:51
If they're a higher up support worker of yours, do you give
46:54
them any advice if they would wish to climb the higher up
46:58
ladder? Any career advice for them?
47:00
Yeah, Yeah, it's a great question.
47:02
I, I think we have a role that is a really nice stepping stone
47:08
from being a support worker on higher up to moving into the
47:13
support office team. That role is called a support
47:15
team lead. So it's like a lead worker and a
47:17
client's team and they're local to the client.
47:20
They're a member of the support office team, but they also do
47:23
support in the roster. They help organize the roster.
47:26
It's like it's like a house manager but not for a seal
47:30
setting it. So we would call it a support
47:31
team lead. We didn't really create the
47:33
concept. We just stole it from house
47:35
managers and modified it to to a non SEAL setting.
47:38
I think check out the careers page on higher and just look out
47:42
for those support team lead opportunities.
47:44
I mean, you look out for all opportunities, but I think
47:45
that's a really nice stepping stone where you get into a
47:47
situation where you're taking on more admin responsibility,
47:50
coaching, rostering, but you also get integrated to the
47:53
higher up team. And then I've seen people do
47:55
that for a little bit of time and then move into other roles,
47:58
more relationship management roles or business development
48:01
roles. So yeah, I think we would try to
48:03
create a bit of a ladder that way.
48:04
And I'd love for us to promote that more because I actually
48:06
think it's an awesome part of what we do.
48:08
We've got about 50 people working in those roles right now
48:11
or around Australia. But yeah, I'd love to have
48:13
heaps. Moore Yeah, it did kind of we're
48:14
going to they're going to be the right match with the client.
48:16
But yeah, it's a it's a cool part of our business and I think
48:19
it's especially attractive. But just in lots of support
48:21
workers just come into that and do really well and then.
48:23
Should they tell tell you guys that they're interested or keen
48:27
of opportunities in? The definitely, yeah, yeah,
48:30
definitely reach out. Yeah.
48:31
Just give us a call and and let us know.
48:35
Yeah, yeah. It'd be great way to get in
48:37
touch. So what's coming up for higher
48:41
up in the next 12 to 24 months? That we should watch with
48:44
excitement, I dare say. Yeah.
48:47
Look, I think Sarah, two things for US1 is that we have lots of
48:52
plans to keep improving the worker proposition.
48:56
So training wages, including wage progression with
49:00
experience, lots of work around how we connect people through
49:04
the platform. But for us, getting better and
49:06
better for our workers is a huge, is a huge priority.
49:10
And you know, engaging people to stay for as long as they want
49:14
higher up I think is really exciting, is really important to
49:16
us. So yeah, lots of worker focused
49:18
stuff, mentoring, community connection is a big part for how
49:21
do we create connection across our workforce.
49:23
People are working 1:00 to 1:00, but everybody's confronting
49:25
similar problems and challenges and they want to connect.
49:28
So how do we do that? We've got some exciting players
49:30
in that area. We're also doing more and more
49:34
with other service providers and supporting them.
49:37
And I think it'll be interesting to see how some of the changes
49:39
play out with the NDIS. But what we're certainly seeing
49:41
is that other service providers are wanting to be more creative
49:43
with their own workforces and thinking about ways that they
49:48
can plug into higher up, but also, you know, even use higher
49:53
up to do parts of their service. So I think that that that's one
49:56
where it's a bit of thinking for us to do to modify our
49:59
technology to work really well in those environments.
50:03
Again, it should support our workforce.
50:04
But yeah, it's, it's kind of in the partnership, focus
50:07
partnership area. And I'm very excited about some
50:09
of those conversations. And they're also in aged care as
50:11
well as disability. Are you doing anything cute in
50:13
AI? Oh, you know I talk about.
50:14
It lots happening with AI. So we're going to send robots
50:19
next week. You know, the thing that I saw
50:23
recently on AI and I don't know, we usually get your take on and
50:26
also your audience. You know, doctors have got these
50:29
subscribed apps where they're sitting on their laptops and
50:32
scribing the visit and then it writes up the notes.
50:34
And I saw a kind of like, you know, the Instagram influencers
50:39
mic type thing that you can click onto your shirt as you go
50:44
about your day as a doctor or allied health therapist.
50:46
And I wondered if we will see that one day for support workers
50:49
basically scribing. Now you could, there's all sorts
50:52
of consent and privacy, but you could think about, you could,
50:56
you know, you could think about the, you know, coaching
50:58
opportunities from AI, you know, having a transcript of your
51:04
support shift together and then say, Hey, listen, Sarah or
51:07
Peter, when you said this, you could have explained it in this
51:09
way or yeah. And maybe you could have more
51:12
actively involved personally work.
51:13
So I I, I'm not, we haven't rolled any of that out yet.
51:16
And I'm kind of just thinking about that.
51:18
But I think some of those things could be quite interesting in
51:21
this space. Yeah.
51:22
So while we're here, it's really important to do your journals,
51:25
your notes, your progression notes.
51:27
Yeah, but also you're not going to get into trouble for the
51:30
depth that you go to. I'd say that a lot of them are
51:32
using ChatGPT or Claude to build up their notes to say what they
51:37
did today because communication and making sure that they've
51:41
expressed what they've done on shift.
51:43
But you know it's not being an idiot with AI too, not putting
51:46
personal details and stuff like. That yeah, yeah, that's, that's
51:48
really important. Yep, don't do that.
51:51
Anyone listening, please do not put addresses or phone numbers
51:55
or their client details into it. Yes, don't do that.
51:58
But, but also, I reckon I would also be really interested to
52:00
hear from people if they, if they can see ways that we could
52:04
use AI. Because one of the things I
52:06
think we can do at Harv is, is to build the the safety around
52:11
it so that we can so it can be used safely and it can save time
52:14
and can help people focus on what they actually love doing.
52:18
And the support parts. Yeah, very interesting.
52:20
It's a exploration topic for us and there's all sorts of ways
52:23
we're using internally as well. But yeah, yeah.
52:27
Is there anything else you'd like to tell us that's coming or
52:30
we're going to. We're going to keep it top
52:31
secret. I think we're just, yeah, just
52:33
to keep, keep trying to improve the quality of what we do.
52:37
I think that's the with a lot of uncertainty around what's
52:40
happening in the NDIS and where that's all heading.
52:43
I think it's really important for us.
52:45
Then what I talked to the team about is just trying to improve
52:48
the quality of what we do and be better because we don't know
52:52
what tomorrow's going to bring. But yeah, it's kind of one of
52:55
those like control what you can control time.
52:57
Yeah, yeah. That's definitely something
53:00
we're thinking about. So the cool thing about this is
53:03
that if anyone's looking at higher up as a opportunity for
53:07
work opportunity to find a support worker to network with
53:12
you guys at a provider level, the best way to contact you guys
53:16
at this I will be through the website.
53:18
Yeah, yeah. Hello at higherup.com dot AU.
53:21
SO e-mail address, so that goes to a team, will ping it out to
53:24
the right area and kind of, yeah, whatever you're looking
53:28
for that that's a good starting point.
53:30
And I'm on LinkedIn as well, so if folks want to get in touch
53:33
with me directly you can. Just slide into your inbox like
53:36
I did. Yep, always open to that.
53:39
Nothing wrong with that. Thank you so much for being on
53:42
the podcast tonight. Thanks, Sarah.
53:44
Thank. You until next time.
53:46
Cheers. Bye.
53:47
Cheers.