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569: #569 Jason Flom with Dusty Turner · Wrongful Conviction Podcasts

• 00:00:05 Speaker 1: Hey, it's counter Hall, the producer for wrongful Conviction. After thirty one years of wrongful incarceration, Dusty Turner was freed just a few weeks ago, and Maggie was able to snag a post release interview. It's hard to believe that Jason covered his story nearly ten years ago. Right here, Dusty Turner. 00:00:30 Speaker 2: I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective. 00:00:34 Speaker 3: I was naive enough to believe that I would be able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence, that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't be going to prison because I was a good person. I hadn't do anything wrong. 00:00:47 Speaker 2: In the back of your mind, you say, well, when we go to a hearing, we go to court, the truth will come out. The prosecution from day one knew I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected from the lower courts all the way up to the United States Supreme Court. 00:01:03 Speaker 4: You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really, in that moment, unchecked authority. 00:01:12 Speaker 3: Don't presume that people are guilty when you seem on TV, because it may just be a dirty da that is trying to rise upward. 00:01:25 Speaker 5: This is wrongful conviction. 00:01:38 Speaker 6: Hello, this is a pre kay call from an animated Virginia Department of Correction Green Steel Correctional and Work Center. To accept this call, plus Nero refuses. This call is from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. 00:01:55 Speaker 5: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flaum. Today, I'm interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect and admiration for, Dusty Turner. 00:02:05 Speaker 4: On June nineteenth, the twenty one year old pre men student went missing while vacationing with family friends at Virginia Beach. 00:02:12 Speaker 7: Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night. Jennifer Evans left the now defunct Bayou Nightclub with former Navy Seal training Dustin Turner. Police say the two got in the car with another Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her body nine days later in this wooded area of Newport News. She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court. 00:02:36 Speaker 4: Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to seventy two years. 00:02:41 Speaker 7: Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison, but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free. 00:02:54 Speaker 4: The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's petition for exoneration. The really means Turner, in another seal training, Billy Joe Brown will spend the rest of their lives in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evans. 00:03:09 Speaker 5: Dusty, welcome to the show. 00:03:11 Speaker 6: Thank you. 00:03:12 Speaker 5: The reason you're hearing him sound sort of like he's on another planet is because he is. He's in prison in Virginia where he's been locked up for twenty two years for a crime he had nothing to do with. It's a complicated case and a very tragic situation because Dusty had just completed the training to be a Navy seal when he was arrested for a murder that he didn't commit. And Dusty, let's go back to that. When did you sign up for the Navy? What made you want to serve your country? 00:03:41 Speaker 6: Well, my family has been in the military, my father, my stepfather, my brother, my older brother, he was in the Navy before me, and I guess I just have always had that appeal towards the military to serve my country. 00:03:54 Speaker 5: Right, But you took it to another level going through that Navy seal training. That is the most extreme thing you can do. 00:04:01 Speaker 4: Right. 00:04:01 Speaker 5: Seals and rangers are the most elite troops that we have, and so you decided to subject yourself to basically torture in order to really become a machine. 00:04:11 Speaker 6: Right, Well, yeah, I guess that's right. You know, initially when I first signed up to the military and the Navy, I wanted to be a diver. I was a scuba diving for about fifteen years, and before I was in the PASTOBA Delayed Entry program, and so before I actually arrived at boot camp, I set my sights on becoming a stew I don't know really what it is that drove me so much, but I just wanted to be in the most elite unit that I could to be in order to fight for my country. 00:04:45 Speaker 5: And ironically, this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection, there's a very strong connection to the training because of the fact that it was that faithful night when you were out with your training buddy, when all of this tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes. 00:05:05 Speaker 6: Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in bus training and throughout the entire field training. We were paired of. And actually the only reason we're paired of at the beginning is because we're the same height, and as fate would have it, that's why we were paired of. 00:05:21 Speaker 5: And why does that matter. 00:05:22 Speaker 6: Well, everyone's assigned to a boat crew in bus training, and your boat crew is dependent upon the height, and so we were in the same boat crew. We're the same height. Want to structures that you and you you're together, You're now slim, buddy. And that was early in training. 00:05:40 Speaker 5: And the issue was Billy was a very volatile character. Right. There's questions that have been raised as to whether he should have ever been admitted into the Navy in the first place when he had a history of well, let's just say, erratic behavior that would be concerning you would think before allowing him into serve in that capacity. Can you talk a little bit about that. 00:06:04 Speaker 6: Yeah, So I didn't know about his pass until after the trial. He did have a violent history. Apparently he had assulted at least one femail before he came to the military. He was discharged out of the Coastguard before he came into the Navy, and he had a couple other things on his record, which again I was unaware of the prior. You know, some people have said that when he would have gone through the process get his security clearance, that they would have recognized this and then kicked him out of the service. I'm not so sure if that's the case or not, but he certainly had the final pass, and it is surprising, you know, in hindsight, he's very surprising that he was allowed not only in the military, but to come through to the Special Forces. 00:06:54 Speaker 5: And Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean, you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs, even if it means risking or putting your own life in danger. Is that right? 00:07:07 Speaker 6: Yes, it is during the training throughout a good majority of it. If we were separated more than six feet, we would be punished for that. You know, I could trust them in the field, so to speak, to shoot over top of my back and you know, a para, so to speak. So there was a great deal of a trust in a binding force, I guess to come with the training. 00:07:31 Speaker 5: Right, you literally had to trust each other with your lives in a very, very, in a very real way. I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on the events, the tragic events that happened on June nineteenth, nineteen ninety five in Virginia Beach. And I don't think anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk about that. Because you guys went out to a bar that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he got pretty blitzed. Is that right. 00:08:14 Speaker 6: Yeah, he'd been drinking that day from early on and it just continued into the evening until we were at the club at nine, and he was absolutely. 00:08:24 Speaker 5: So walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this is really the moment, right when your life was turned upside down. How did this unravel from the time you were in the club to when you ended up in the car, and then ultimately what happened after. 00:08:39 Speaker 6: That, Well, you know, It started off as kind of a normal, normal evening. I've been to that club a few times. I was relatively new to the area in Virginia Beach, not only been there maybe maybe three weeks, and so initially three of us guys were going to go out and to the club at nine one. The guy ended up up going, I don't know, going off with his girlfriend or something. So Billy and I went to the club. It was again, it was kind of a normal here. Billy is drunk again. I kind of separated myself at the club from him, and I had met a very nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We kind of hit it off. We were having a good time for sharing with each other. Fellow was what we were into. 00:09:22 Speaker 5: You know. 00:09:22 Speaker 6: She was a college student down in Georgia, and I generally didn't talk very openly about my field experience, but with her I did, and I opened up and I told her what I was doing there the beach. Now, mind you that I was in the club with a underage and I had a fake ID that I got in there. 00:09:43 Speaker 5: You were twenty at the time, man, That was yeah, I was. 00:09:45 Speaker 6: Twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one. And so again we you know, Jenffer and I we hit it off. We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had met her girlfriend, her two friends that she came there with, We had been out on the dance floor, and you know, again it was very very normal type of evening, and well, the last thing I was imagined was something trastic happening that night, So it put it in the night. Her girlfriend had left briefly they were going to go get some coffee and everyone to say with me in the club. So we actually had an idea of trying to go down to the beach, taking our shoes off and walking down on the beach. But as the night progressed and her girlfriends were going to come pick her back up at two o'clock in the morning, which is the time of this club quote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't know the time to go down to the beach and then make it back to meet her girlfriends, So we stayed in the club, and in fact we went out to the lobby where it was more quiet, and we just got out there and had a conversation. Just previous to this, I had gotten Billy a ride home with this ex girlfriend who happened to be in the club that night, Christians Bishops, and reluctantly she did agree to they come home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows the type of character that he is and she really didn't want to deal with him, especially because he was so drunk, which I understood, but you know, I was happy that she was willing to take him home, so I was confident that I wouldn't even see him for the rest of the night. And I was with Jennifer, and it was closing upon two o'clock in the morning. We were out in the lobby and we decided to go out into the parking lot and wait for her girlfriend and sit in my car and listened to music. And so within about ten minutes, still two again, we went out to my car and we were sitting there listening to music and looking for her girlfriend to show up at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down the hill was Billy Brown, and he was heading towards the parkpot. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian was supposed to take him home. I knew he was drunk and belligerent, but when he was approaching the vehicle. I told Jennifer, I said, look, you know, this is the guy I come here with. You know, he's drunk. Just just don't pay no attention to him. I've seen him in the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico. I've seen him, witness him become kind of violent towards women. I didn't think that he would become violent towards Jenner Firm, but I did assume he was at least going to be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into. 00:12:18 Speaker 5: The car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusty, what kind of car was it? 00:12:21 Speaker 6: So I had a small geostorm. 00:12:24 Speaker 5: So that's a small car, right, yeah, it is a very small car. And you're big guys, both of you guys are. 00:12:30 Speaker 6: He was bigger than I. We were both six foot two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed me by maybe fifteen to twenty pounds, So he was I think he was about two hundred and thirty somewhere aund indus or thirty pounds. But he approaches the passer's side of the car and he opens the door and he kind of pushes the car seat forward where Jennifer was sitting, he pushes a seat forward a little roughly, and he gets in the car in the back seats right behind her, and of course his big frame compared with the back in this once you did a very small comb Those knees are against the back of her seat. And as soon as he sits down, I turned to him and I say, Billy, what what's going on? Was was Christian not thinking you home? And he immediately goes into a tirade about oh, screwing that f bet girl you think you know, blah blah, he's a nothing. 00:13:26 Speaker 5: But of this event, this is the last thing you want to see, right, You're having a nice moment with a girl, you have a nice connection with her. The last thing you want to see, last thing anybody would want to see is a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody. You don't want to see anybody at that point. You just want to be in your little bubble with her, listen to music. Everything's good. I mean, you never could have predicted how bad it was going to get, but already it's bad. 00:13:51 Speaker 6: Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of the situation. Jennifer and I were having the time, you know, we were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I had given her a husband when I thought that she was gonna leave with her girlfriends, and that's the only time we had had a come physical contact. I said, said Jeniffer, she's a very decent young lady. You know, she was a good girl, was a great teacher in front of her who was going to college. And it's a very nice young lady. And so we're having a great conversation and you said, here comes this drunk buddy of mine down to the calling. 00:14:27 Speaker 5: So he's now in the back seat and is acting as you would have probably predicted that he would have act because of what you know about his character and his current state of mind. But then it gets much worse. 00:14:41 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him while Christian was taking him home, and you know, he said what he said about her, and he turned his attention to Jennifer, and he made some very rude comment, if I remember correctly, he said something about asking her if she was a virgin, something like that, certainly inappropriate. And I immediately said, look, Billy, why don't you get out and go find Christians that she was going to take me home, And so he was not trying to hear that at all. He's like half that bitch. So again he kind of turns his benches to Jenner from my eyes, who within two or three or four minutes before her girlfriends were coming to pick her up right there where we're at in the parking lot. They're supposed to arrive there, they told used to be there at to the clock, and it has to be within a couple of minutes before too. And of course I didn't know at that point too what it transpired in the gloves between him and Christian that made him additionally belligerent. So it turns his SENSI back to Cennifer, and he said something about her hair. He reached up with his right hand. I don't know if he pushed her her shoulder or her hair. But at that point Jennifer had just throughout this time, the brief couple of minutes she had not set a did not open her mouth to him or refined to him, And so when he touched her hair or her shoulder, she smacked his hand from behind, you know, swatted his hands, and that's when he snapped. So I wasn't looking directly at him when he snapped, but with all his might. He violently thrust his arms around her, of her body, her neck area, and with so much force that the whole car literally shaped right. 00:16:34 Speaker 5: And I'm thinking about it, d'sti. He had his feet, as you said, his knees were up against the seat. And here's a big, strong, two thirty pound guy who's trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean, you know, it would have been nothing for him to do this considering all of these well, you know, I don't you. 00:16:56 Speaker 6: Know, I don't know about saying it would have been nothing. I really don't know. I know that if seemingly it was coming for him, the strike that he did upon this innocent young woman was so violent that when I turned and started screaming at him to just let her go, and he's screaming at me just ep and drive, just up and drive first, I started crying and trying to pull his arms off of her and screaming at him. This entire brief time when this happened, Jennifer never once reached up to defend herself. It was that quick that she was out, and so I immediately grabbing his arms, and I'm screaming at him, just let her go, let her go, And he's screaming at me, just fucking drive, just up and drive, you know. Only after a couple of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't work, so I reached under his fingers literally and pried his arms, using one hand on his elbow and the other under his fingertips, and pride his arms up off of her. At this point, when I dig at his arms off her, he took back and the seat and she is now did her head is built towards the passenger side window, her arms on the other side. She had delided herself. And I'm just complete shocked and just utter confusion and disbelieve. And I'm still he is yelling at him. He just has been drawn. 00:18:24 Speaker 5: Drawn, Dusty. I'm just thinking that I'm just the physics of it. I mean, it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even a strong guy like yourself, to pull somebody off from the side when he's in a position like he was in, especially when it happened as quickly as it did. I mean, you really had no chance to save this poor girl. And I mean I obviously you did what you could, but she had no chance. And at this point, were you concerned that he was going to try to kill you too? 00:18:52 Speaker 6: No, it certainly wasn't an they didn't go through my head only thought. I'm not thinking anyone sitting in my seat would have had the same reaction. You know, one minute having a good time with a young lady, and the next minute, this guy, this violent predator, cleatly just alters history. I don't know it's spoke stream, but I mean he is. The one act that he does, it changes the lives of so many people. 00:19:20 Speaker 5: Sure, one act. 00:19:21 Speaker 6: And he's drunk, and he's and you know, I'd like to think that he really didn't know what the heck he's doing. He has his past, and he has lent past of a violence towards women. But he's been increasingly becoming an alcoholic over the last several weeks or months, in which he's drinking every single night. It's just a bad, bad brude. Not to mention the fact that he was thinking sterile. He's leading up to this as will. 00:19:43 Speaker 5: Obviously, he destroyed her and get killed her, and he ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family, et cetera. He ruined your life, he ruined his own life, He ruined the lives of your families, right, your family, all military heroes and so yeah, in one short violence, from what it sounds like last only seconds, not even minutes, he managed to destroy so many people. And then that's where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right, and again, I can't walk in your shoes. No one can walk in your shoes with all the factors that were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had been now trained, practically indoctrinated into this idea that you must protect this guy and he's going to protect you. You know, that's just in the mix. I just want to put that in there. But besides that, you're in a state I can imagine of complete shock and panic, and who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes from what sounds like a beautiful night, a nice connection to this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as close and personal as you can imagine with somebody you were supposed to trust and protect and someone else that you would have liked to protect, but you couldn't. He's screaming at you to drive what happened? 00:21:09 Speaker 6: Yeah, And this is like you said, this, this is why you're in prison is because of what you've done afterwards. And if people can't understand your reaction afterwards, the normal person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran to find the phone or the police somewhere, or to tell somebody something just terrible has happened. And that might be the case for most people. I don't know, but I think that's the way I reacted. It would have been different. Even if my own brother would have been in Billy Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently. This is like you said, to the way I was conditions and indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how I reacted. I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent, and I certainly have never been violent towards the women, and I'm not criminally minded. And so why is is did a twenty year old trust in this position which I should never have been in to begin with, and had to make these kinds of decisions. And so when I realized that in the first day and Billy Brown screaming them and I really didn't know what to do. I was in a place in this area, Like I said, I had only been in Virginia Beach for a couple of weeks and three weeks of five. So I just put the car to drive and I took off driving, and I didn't know where I was going. I didn't even know how to barely get out of the Virginia Beach area until I ended up in fact Phillip Brown. And when I started driving, he said, I'll turn left here, turn right there, and I ended up on sixty four, and on sixty four, I'm familiar with that highway, and so I just started traveling west on sixty four, and I didn't know where I was going, and I just kept driving and driving until I started I seen a lot of wooded area, and so I pulled off on an exit. Again, I have no idea where I'm at, and I'm just driving. I pull off into another area which seemed more wooded until I get to a more secluded area which is not that far from the interstate, and both of us myself can bally get up the car. I grabbed Nimfer's risks, he grabbed her legs, and we carried her perhaps thirty yards into the wood. And again I was in complete chaotic, shocking, and I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what else to do. And yeah, I understand that people people look at that moment there and say, you know that, why would you do that? Why you know I would have done that? But others have not been in my shoes. They don't understand, and perhaps I don't even understand why I reacted that with other than to say that this is kind of how I was trained to react. They didn't say, in a situation which you know there's been a crime and it's a civilian who's been hurt, tect your swim body. Oh of course I didn't say that. However, now from what I understands, when you go through still training today, they do have classes in training that says, look, if this type of scenario happens, you need to consider what you know, where you're at, what you're doing, and so forth, and do not protect your swim body if he has done something so horrendous, so wrong. And that's the place today because of this city. 00:24:35 Speaker 5: But Dusty, I want to bring up an important point. What is important from a legal perspective to remember is that in Virginia, hiding a body after a murder is a misdemeanor punishable by up to twelve months in jail. And that's not what you got convicted of. That's not what they wanted you for. And we're going to get to that in a minute. But that's a very important thing to remember. In certain states that's not the case. There's some states where it's treated very differently. In some states it's treated the same as murder, just you know, hiding the body after the fact. But that's the only thing that you were guilty of. And that's one of the reasons why I've dived into your case and why I'm doing everything I can to help you try to find justice, because it's obviously a terrible miscarriage of justice, the fact that you're serving time for murder when what you did was wrong, but it's not murder. So now going forward, you go back to the base and this is big news, right the town is up in arms. Everyone's wondering what happened to this girl, and this must have been driving you crazy, right. 00:25:43 Speaker 6: Well, I wasn't really aware at the time of the news in the media, but what was driving me crazy, is just having witnesses and knowing about it and attempting to remain silent about it. It was, Uh. It put me in a state of almost like a zombie like state throughout the next week in which I held this speakert and witness bill. They do this terrible, terrible beat and I had it within and and I couldn't tell anybody, and so it was it was definitely eating me up on the inside. So of course the coming week now we were up north something from a place called a support ap doing addigital training for men. I wasn't during the time. I wasn't aware of the news in the media down in Virginia Beach. But it was certainly eating you up on the inside. 00:26:39 Speaker 5: So your conscience got the best of you, and you know, you did the right thing after having done the wrong thing and went to the authorities, right, And that's where things get really dicey from everything I've read, where they didn't behave in a straightforward manner when it comes to how they treated you right. 00:26:57 Speaker 6: Well, first of all, you know, I did it tell the Texas you know, everything that they had asked me. You know, at first I did not denied it. I denied everything, but it came to a point, especially after they had presented me with the fact that Jennifer's family is an absolute go into a traumatic and brieving experience and they just want to know how and they want to know where their daughter is, et cetera. And it was through this line of the Enquirer questioning that you know, I asked to see my very officer, and my spirit offic came in and we were alone. I told him everything that happened, and so he said that he was on an attempt to call the Dad officer and to see what we could do as far as legally or something like that. But nonetheless, fifteen minutes later when the texts come in, I told them everything that they had asked, and they even asked me if I was helping them first draw maps to where Jennifer's Bobby was, which I did, I attempted to do, and then they asked me if I would accompany them they Jennifer Scotty, so which I did also, and I still my spreite officer in one of the expecutives. We went to the location and we separated the search through the woods. Finally I did find her body. At that point I went back to the base. They had presented Billy Brown with the map that I had drawn. He said, look, your buddy completely just rolled on you. He told us everything, you're going down. You're probably gonna get the death penalty whatever else. And so at that point that he began with these stories about now I had something to do with it. He later said that if he was going down, he's gonna take me with and so he made up a story saying that we're both gone. 00:28:44 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he was obviously furious because he believed that you, who was supposed to be his protector, had betrayed him. He's gonna do what he can to bring you down with him, because, in his twisted way of thinking, you should have covered up this murder and protected him, and so you did what you thought was right. I'll be it after the fact and the consequences started to become very real now from what I've read, Dustie, the detectives made certain promises to you, right that if you help them, you were going to be kind of okay. 00:29:18 Speaker 6: Right, yeah, they think you know. They did say that after telling my sperit officer what had happened, and he spoke to the textives as well, and together they said, look, just answer the question. It'll be all right. And I said, are you sure you know? And I kind of took it as a direct order from my spirit officer. I said, very sure, that's what I should do, and he said, yes, to answer the questions, be all right. I said, okay. You know, they didn't come to me and say anything like, well, for your testimony, will allow some kind of agreement or something like that. 00:29:50 Speaker 5: Now. 00:29:50 Speaker 6: They never actually came to me and said that. Of course, being very igorant of the criminal justice, you know, I didn't know that I would even need a lawyer or the that I should do remain time about certain things or what have you. But you know, I willingly asked them to search my vehicle. Mean, I answered the questions truthfully, And I thought that maybe what this would lead to was at some point me on a witness fan explaining that Billy Brown is being charged with her murder, that I would be explaining exactly how things happened. Maybe I was naive, but I assume that's how things worked. I certainly didn't assume that they were going to charge me. After speaking with Billy Brown and him pointing the fingers much so I certainly didn't think that I was going to be charged with the murder. 00:30:40 Speaker 5: And this is an important point, Dusty, right, because the police spent forty eight hours examining your car, right, so they turned that thing upside down, And yet they never used any of the evidence from the car at trial because it wasn't going to be favorable to them, And in fact, by noting the evidence at trial, they didn't have to turn over to the defense, when in fact, if they had, it would have been definitely in your favor because of the fact that everything you were saying makes true, that the physics of it just don't add up some of the things that they said. It doesn't make sense to add insult to injury. And in a terrible call it a coincidence, the year that you were convicted, nineteen ninety five, was the same year that Virginia abolished parole, which is shocking to my conscience. In a nation where we believe in second chances and we believe in redemption, and we believe in that stuff, the idea that if you were so misfortunate is to be convicted in Virginia nineteen ninety five or later you are not eligible for parole. 00:31:51 Speaker 6: I wouldn't even be able with parole. Meant, I wouldn't aware. You know that they had just abolished parole in Virginia. I don't think I would have would have paired at the time. I wasn't, So I gets concerned about the sense I was given. I was concerned about the fact that I was convicted of two charges that I did not commit. Whether they gave me ten years or one hundred years, I was convicted of something I didn't commit. And that's that was the Travis. 00:32:15 Speaker 5: It's I can't I can't really imagine how that could make sense in a society like ours, but it is in fact a reality, and it's your reality, and it's why now everyone is working so hard to help you get clemency or a pardon or a conditional pardon from the governor because of the fact that that is the only recourse left. Another thing that's sort of a unique and to me troubling concept is the idea that you only have really one appeal of actual innocence in Virginia, right, And that's something I want to get to Dusty, because first of all, a crazy thing happened in two thousand and two, right, which is that Billy he had some sort of an awakening and decided to come clean and tell the truth. We're talking two thousand and two, fifteen years ago, right, And he recanted and admitted that he was the sole murderer. And I think people are listening now and going, well, wait a minute, if that happened, why is Dusty still in prison? Can you explain that scenario? 00:33:21 Speaker 6: Yeah? If I can't explain it, yeah, as he's serving his time and some other prison I guess some guys had approached him and gotten him to get into Christianity, and this allowed him to finally release this burden that he's been holding for all these years and to confess. And so that happened again in early two thousand and Here it is, fifteen years later, and I'm still sitting here, still sitting here after he's complaint, after he finally said, yeah, everything that Dusty said, that's what happened, and the judge rule that he's credible in that confession. So there was no mechanisms more recently of even getting back into court with such new evidence. But there was a time later in two thousand and sixty Pound seven until we finally rid of actual innocence to the appeals court, which ended with well, the appeals court initially overturned my convictions. They did convict me of the misdemeanor accessory after the fact of the felony, which indeed I am blp of and like you said earlier, that was a maximum sentence of twelve months in jail. When they made this ruling and they dropped my charges. This is two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. I was expecting me home within a matter of days or weeks. 00:34:46 Speaker 5: This is what makes me insane. And I think anybody listening is like, wait, wait, wait, So your conviction was vacated, right, And then that means to a layman who's not intimately familiar with the law or criminal proceedings, when your conviction is vacated, you have every reasonablieve you're going to go home. 00:35:03 Speaker 4: Right. 00:35:04 Speaker 5: They've actually come out and said, okay, we are now acknowledging there is no physical evidence connecting you to this. None of this stuff adds up, right, not to the murder. Like you said, you're guilty of the accessory after the fact, and now you have the actual killer confessing in court under oath sounds like a winner. Right, you're going home, except for then the state decided to put its foot back on your neck, so to speak. Right, and then what happened? 00:35:31 Speaker 6: Yeah, so the toils the vacated my conviction and I was expect to be home with a matter of day. The acting Attorney General came forward and said that he wanted to appeal this decision, and so they appealed it and went back through the appellate court and then on into the later into the Supreme Court of Virginia and under a new series that's one of the judges of the Pilates Court created. And the thread of actual innocence is so demanding as they say that the evidence has to be just as substantial as DNA evidence, which unfortunately there's no DNA evidence in my case. But so one of the judges says, well, although he didn't have anything to do with the murder, and this has been decided by the judges, he didn't have anything to do with the murder, and he didn't restrain the victim. This judge says, well, perhaps a jury could believe that when Dusty walked out of the bar to the parking lot, to his car, that a jury could believe that that was an abduction by deception. And if a jury believed that and then Jennifer was later killed regardless of power who was killed her, that I which still be guilty and the jury is still find me guilty of both the abduction and the murder. So they created a new theory in my face. There's just not only is the asonine, but it was never presented before the jury. And there's no jury in the world that would believe this idea, especially with all the additional evidence. So under that because of it, and it's all the semantics of this word restraint, and that's what it comes down to. I'm still in prison because of the semantics of the word restraint. And it's unbelievable. So they overturn my release and they reinstate my colas and here it is seven years later and I'm still sitting here. 00:37:24 Speaker 5: So they're basically trying to say that they're going back in time to nineteen ninety five. They're going back in time the nineteen ninety five and trying to come up with a theory that could actually read your mind. Right, They're going back in a time machine and reading your mind and saying, well, this may have been, could have been, would have been something that he might have been thinking of doing. There's no evidence to prove it. How could anybody? I don't know. It makes me nuts. It's such a bizarre it's such a bizarre thing for a court or a judge to say. As far as I'm concerned, I. 00:38:00 Speaker 6: Think that the legislators recognized that after my case, and they said, you know, this rivactional innocence is obviously entirely too restrictiveness and to open for interpretation or whatever. So they since I went through this rivactional inscence, now they've changed the law the wording of the rivactionalness. Instead of saying could any juror find guilt with this evidence? Now it's more specific, and it may sound puplicit, but it's more specific thing. Would a rational juror still find guilt with this new evidence and the new word in which I can't go back into the river actionalness because it's the one shot deal. And Tom left hung out to drial this on this whole thing. 00:38:42 Speaker 5: Well, hopefully not for too long, because you have a lot of really great people on your side now, and you have a governor who cares about these issues and who has shown in actions that he believes in justice, that he believes in fairness, and that he has the courage to do something about these things. 00:39:00 Speaker 6: From my perspective, he does like a very fair man, and I do have hope. I do think that he will look at my case, and I know and I'm very confident that if he does, if he just looks at my kids, then he'll realize that I'm not supposed to be here. I do have that tremendous hope that he will take action in my case. 00:39:21 Speaker 5: Well, Dusty, I can tell you that I think that there's a lot of reason to have hope in this current administration that we have there because of the fact that you do have such a ground swell of support, and not only that, because of what you've done, the remarkable record of accomplishment that you've had on the inside. And I want to talk about that. I know that you know you're finding hope in a hopeless place, but I want to paint a picture for the audience of just how grim it is to be in the situation you're in, and then also what you've managed to make out of that experience. 00:39:57 Speaker 6: Well, you know, I've got a quote a guy who knows suffering, and a couple of things have kept me I don't know, to move forward, and its positive. I can be one of those the supporters that I do have, not just my family, but others, you know, total strangers who have reached out, and it gives me a lot of hope, and it gives me a lot of strength to endure this what I'm going through in this environment. And it is terrible, It's absolutely terrible. But this quote, it's one of my favorite quotes. It says that everything be taken from a man, but one thing, the last of the human freedom, and that is to choose one's own attitude in any set of circumstances, choose one's own way as a man named Victor Franklin. And you know, I guess I've taken on this, this attitude, you know, that which allowed me to persevere through through bud training and is still training. I reached for this on a daily basis. Now I put my feet on the ground and say I have to I have to continue on today, and I have to push forward, and I can't allow this environment to get the best of them. And I want to transcend in spite of where I'm at. And so I've looked to try to do things to try to help out not only the people around me in my environment for years, and I've helped guys who have struggled with drug addiction or you know, criminal thinking. And I've just kind of made it as part of my own our character to trying to help you guys out and to move past, to transcend some of these things in which they've been stuck in. And not only that, I proposed a dog training program. That's the last institution that I was at. It was luckily it was to prove and we had the dogs come in and for about three years I was able to be a dog trainer. And I had studied and read up and learned so much about training dogs and I really enjoyed that. 00:41:53 Speaker 5: And how does that training program work? That the dogs are? They rescue dogs and what happens to them after they're trained? 00:41:59 Speaker 4: Right? 00:42:00 Speaker 6: So these are absolutely rescued dogs. These were abandoned. We worked with a shelter out of Ashland, Virginia called bark Baar Community and that's the abandoned the adoption and rescued canines. A really great organizations, and they would bring us six dogs at time and we would have them for three months, and we had a total of twelve dog trainers, two free stocks, and we would train the dogs. These dogs that were abandoned and you never know what their history was. They could send maybe beat them or however that they were rescued and we were given the tools to help train these dogs, and then afterward they were adopted and we had an adoption rate of some ninety something percent coming out of there, and we trained them in basic pin obedience and it was a really, really great, really positive program. And from there I had gotten into me and another guy, we had been talking about different ideas concerning the judicial system and we'd come across this idea of restorative justice. And after we had studied on it and we've gotten in contact with some restorative justice practitioners, we decided that with our knowledge of this environment in the prison and we knew what was lacking in this environment, we knew some of the things that could help in the rehabilitations of the fellow inmates, we constructed a restorative justice program. We're still in the process of kind of flushing out some of the more detailed aspects of the curriculum. But this is what my passion has been into for the past few years, and I've really been concentrating my efforts into this program. And we have people restored, just practitioners from universities and other organizations to really really like what we have created and they want to help them out a little bit. 00:43:46 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's you know what it sounds like to me. It sounds like you're doing more good, like I said, from this hopeless place than most people on the outside can never even dream of doing. And that's you know, that's to your credit, obviously, and it's another reason why it makes sense for you to be granted your freedom after all these years. And if you even allow your mind to go there, what do you want to do? What's your plan? 00:44:14 Speaker 6: Well, as you hit upon do I even want to go there? I have been reluctant, especially after seven years ago when I was expecting to get out and I was denied that. It was a very crushing blow and it was difficult to endure. But yeah, of course I do allow myself to think about what I'm out of here, although I don't dwell upon it because I just I don't know. I just can't go there for so much. But the more I've gotten into restort justice, the more I think it's an extremely beneficial philosophy and instead of practices to kind of compliment our criminal justice system. And so I really want to pursue that direction, and I think that I can help out. I think I have a lot of school or feel over here, So now it's for being in here for the last twenty two plus year in observing things from the inside, I feel like I have a great perspective to be able to help out in the source. 00:45:17 Speaker 5: Just that sounds like a great scenario to me, and both have benefits to society across the board. I don't know if you're able to talk about it, but it really struck me earlier when you told me that the prison or your pod is on lockdown. What does that mean? 00:45:51 Speaker 6: Well, so, where I'm at now, we've been on lockdown the last two weeks, which means we're componed to our concrete box TI and when we're coming out every seventy two hours to take a shower, they bring the food to our door and I say our door because I have a fill partner. Every sales two people for film, and this is how I've been living for the last two weeks, but moreover, it's pretty much how I've been living for the last twenty two years. But when we're not on lockdown, you know, I do have a ploticum of freedoms if you will. You know, every once in a while I can get outside and take fresh air and work out. I've been rolled into a horticulture class and learn about horticulture. I can actually have my fingers and the soil and be able to have the opportunity to plant some feeds and vegetables and so forth. It's really been a positive thing, really really joining the horticulture. 00:46:47 Speaker 5: And the last question about the prison experience, what is an average day like when you're not on lockdown? You wake up at five or something, How does how do you get through the day? 00:46:59 Speaker 6: Yeah, so they have what they call count procedures in which they have to come through and literally count every individual while they're locked in the cell, about four times or so every day, spread out throughout the day. And during that time you have to be standing up and your lives have to be on so they can see that you're alive and will and that starts certainly before six o'clock in the morning. So over the last twenty two years, I've been up at five forty five about that time and standing on the feet mid life wrong the fluorescent lights every morning, and that's one of the countsmen like I said, that goes throughout the day, and that kind of segments the day. That in the beating the channel repeating schedule. So the breakfast, unch, and dinner and these kind of condition you and condition one into the segments of the day. And so there's a period in the morning after breakfast, I which if we're lucky, we might get outside the recreation and recreations of a yard as a track. I usually go jogging. If I'm able to, I'll go into the weightlifting area list some weight and they have a couple other recreational things to guys hit around with the volleyball or the basketball. Otherwise, there's not a lot of kind of rehabilitative programs. There are a few, you know, I've been through a lot of those things, but for most guys, I think that you know, this place is more of a warehouse for humans than anything. It's not really designed for as it called correction necessarily, although there has been, you know, steps towards that direction, of the hopeful steps in that direction. You know, I think that the governor has made some steps in that direction with the re entry ideas and so forth. But you know, unfortunately there's largely the prisons are placed with the warehouse humans. So there's only so much a mind too in this environment. And so I do utilize my time studying, you know, I spend my money on the books and there's a library when I can, and so that's kind of how I send my. 00:49:09 Speaker 5: Well Dusty, all, I can tell you again, I know you know about it, but I hope you can feel it. There's a real wave of support for you among so many people who care and who want to see you or released and able to get on with your life and put this nightmare behind you. And I want to turn it over to you. Typically on wrongful conviction. I like to leave the last word open so that you can share any thoughts you have about anything at all with our audience. I'll turn it over to you, Dusty. 00:49:46 Speaker 6: Okay, Well, as you mentioned, I do have a lot of very strong supporters out here you Virginia, who are total strangers, some of them gotten to know personally, and they're just break people. I'm very fortunate to have these people in my corner and who have recognized my wrongful prediction. As far as the last words, I'm thankful. I really appreciate mister Bomb for interviewing me. Very thankful that increasingly more people know that I have been wrongfully depicted. And I hope that people, you know, maybe reach out and talk to somebody. The filmmaker named JD. Sleet has created a film called The Target of Opportunity about my case, and I was able to view it one time a few years ago, and I think it encapsulates my situation pretty pretty well. And I just hope that people will take some kind of interest and look into my case. And I know that if anybody does, they will see the travesty and the fact that I've been here for over twenty two years for something I didn't do. I had such a future in front of the military. I love the military, plan to make a career. I want to be in the Philpines and want to be the best still Team operators in the country that I could have been. My world was turned upside down and a lot of so many people over one net brother guy. So many people have been destroyed in Ruin in a Brevin's family and my family, like city, and Billie Brown's family, so many others. But again, I just thank you. I really appreciate opportunities. Back to the interview. 00:51:28 Speaker 5: So, Dusty, I want to repeat that the name of the film is. 00:51:32 Speaker 6: The name of the film is Target of Opportunity. 00:51:34 Speaker 5: Target of Opportunity is the film. I've watched it. I hope other people that are listening now will watch it too. And Dusty, I'm sure people are listening. They want to know how can they get involved? What would you advise? 00:51:45 Speaker 6: Right? You know, unfortunately I am largely isolated you. I have no Internet accidents. I've never been on the internet. I've never even used the bill phone. However, I think that people could maybe visit. I know that twitters have created a website at Fredusty dot org. And I do know too that there's a Twitter and Instagram account under my name Free Dusty Turner, I think, and I know that it's in a very leaf reaching out there that my supporters would I'm sure to direct folks into the best way that they might be able to help. I know that writing to the governor Governitarry mccallis in Virginia's directly may help out O. Other than that, I'm really not sure what else say about it. 00:52:31 Speaker 5: Okay, So once again, that's free. Dusty Turner is the Instagram and the Twitter. The movie is Target of Opportunity. Please learn more about this case and get involved. Follow Dusty on social media and there'll be more information there that you can learn how to how to help. And now is the time to do it, because we're really in the home stretch of this, this effort to free Dusty Turner. You have wha we're having Dusty. All I can say is hang in there. We're coming to get you. Thank you Dusty for being on the show, and I'll look forward to seeing you on the outside, hopefully sometime very soon. You've been listening to a very special episode of Wrongful Conviction Behind Bars with Dusty Turner. Dusty, thanks again, Thank. 00:53:27 Speaker 6: You sir, Thank you for using GTL. 00:53:38 Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 00:54:15 Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.