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A Life in Baseball with Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Roster's to Rings. I'm your host, Dad Levine.
0:08
Speaker 1: We have a wonderful show for you today, headlined by
0:10
Speaker 1: one of my dearest friends and mentors, Jerry Depoto. In
0:14
Speaker 1: what marks a Rosters to Rings? First, we have outsourced
0:17
Speaker 1: Jerry's introduction. This is not a small thing, as I
0:20
Speaker 1: really pride myself in having deep dives for introductions. But
0:23
Speaker 1: in this case, we could not have said it better
0:25
Speaker 1: than our guest contributor. I innocently asked Matt Clintech previously
0:29
Speaker 1: on Rosters to Rings to provide a sentence or two
0:32
Speaker 1: about Jerry that we could share with the listeners. Well,
0:35
Speaker 1: rather than just deliver a sentence or two, Matt stepped
0:38
Speaker 1: back and dreamed a half court shot at the buzzer.
0:40
Speaker 1: So here goes. Hopefully I do him justice. Urban legend
0:44
Speaker 1: has it that the three greatest things ever produced by
0:46
Speaker 1: the State of New Jersey are Bruce Springsteen, John bon Jovi,
0:50
Speaker 1: and Jerry Depoto's hair. An accomplished Major League pitcher in
0:53
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties for the Cleveland Indians, New York Mets,
0:56
Speaker 1: and Colorado Rockies, Jerry Lard nearly five hundred innings pitched
1:00
Speaker 1: and earned forty nine career saves over the course of
1:02
Speaker 1: eight Major League seasons. He even dabbled in ballet towards
1:06
Speaker 1: the end of his career with the Rockies. After his
1:08
Speaker 1: playing career concluded prematurely due to an injury, Jerry immediately
1:12
Speaker 1: transitioned to the front office with the Colorado Rockies in
1:15
Speaker 1: two thousand and one. He won a World Series ring
1:17
Speaker 1: as a scout with the two thousand and four Boston
1:19
Speaker 1: Red Sox before returning to the Colorado Rockies for a
1:22
Speaker 1: second stint in the front office as their pro scouting director.
1:25
Speaker 1: From two thousand and six to twenty ten, Jerry held
1:28
Speaker 1: various scouting and player personnel relationship roles with the Arizona Diamondbacks,
1:33
Speaker 1: including serving as interim GM during the twenty ten season.
1:37
Speaker 1: From twenty eleven to twenty fourteen, Jerry was the GM
1:40
Speaker 1: of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, and he has
1:43
Speaker 1: been the top executive for the Sialer Mariners ever since
1:46
Speaker 1: the fall of twenty fifteen. Jerry is a tireless worker,
1:50
Speaker 1: a creative thinker, a dedicated teacher, and both a passionate
1:53
Speaker 1: protector of the game and someone who is willing to
1:55
Speaker 1: challenge conventional norms when he believes it is right. And
1:58
Speaker 1: while he is best known publicly for his propensity for
2:01
Speaker 1: trades and the winning ball clubs that he has built
2:04
Speaker 1: in Seattle over the past decade, I for one will
2:07
Speaker 1: always think of him as the creator of the lane game. Jerry,
2:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Rosters to Rings.
2:13
Speaker 2: There's I felt like that could have been taken care
2:16
Speaker 2: of by AI until you dropped in the lane game
2:19
Speaker 2: and then I'm thinking that's Matt Clintac all the way.
2:22
Speaker 1: Well, we'll have to circle back to the lane game.
2:24
Speaker 1: But where we start every episode in Roster Strings is
2:28
Speaker 1: asking our guests, how did you fall in love with
2:30
Speaker 1: sports as a kid? But where's your sports passion origin story?
2:34
Speaker 2: You know, I would love to tell you that there
2:37
Speaker 2: was that one magical moment that turns into a sports fan,
2:41
Speaker 2: or turned me into one, But you know, I grew
2:44
Speaker 2: up in a family where everybody watched sports. You know,
2:47
Speaker 2: you watched a football game on Sunday, you watch the
2:51
Speaker 2: baseball game. You know every day of the week. We
2:54
Speaker 2: went to an occasional live game when I was a kid.
2:58
Speaker 2: You know I've said this before, there's always that the
3:02
Speaker 2: day that you remember that you don't really remember, you know,
3:05
Speaker 2: because people talked about it that many times. And in
3:08
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, I was seven years old and my
3:11
Speaker 2: dad took me to what was my first major league game,
3:14
Speaker 2: and it was a double header, ironically, a double header
3:17
Speaker 2: between the New York Yankees and the Milwaukee Brewers, which
3:21
Speaker 2: featured I think Hank Aaron was the designated hitter for
3:25
Speaker 2: the Brewers and Capfish Hunter was one of the Yankees pitchers.
3:30
Speaker 2: On that day, my brother and I went with my dad.
3:33
Speaker 2: The twist was that it was actually a game at
3:36
Speaker 2: Shay Stadium because the Yankee Stadium was being I guess redone,
3:43
Speaker 2: the second coming of Yankee Stadium, and you know, for
3:47
Speaker 2: a year the Yankees played their home games, or the
3:49
Speaker 2: better part of the year, played their home games at Shay.
3:52
Speaker 2: So my first baseball game was watching the Yankees in
3:55
Speaker 2: the wrong place with players that I now remember, but
3:59
Speaker 2: I don't remember watching them on that day. And you know,
4:03
Speaker 2: right about that time, I really got into baseball card
4:06
Speaker 2: collecting and you know, the reading the back of the cards,
4:11
Speaker 2: the stats, and my dad, you know, who was a
4:14
Speaker 2: banker by trade, used to go to these, you know,
4:18
Speaker 2: to various conventions or business meeting sessions where they would
4:24
Speaker 2: occasionally provide you with a gift or have you know
4:28
Speaker 2: a celebrity there, which on one occasion was Willie Mays,
4:32
Speaker 2: on another it was Mickey Mantle. And in nineteen eighty
4:37
Speaker 2: when I was in I was would have been in
4:40
Speaker 2: the sixth grade. So in nineteen eighty my my dad
4:43
Speaker 2: brought home a copy of the Baseball Encyclopedia. I had,
4:49
Speaker 2: old hardback, you know, thousands of pages of volume of
4:54
Speaker 2: baseball history. And you know by this time, I'm I'm
4:59
Speaker 2: died in the world. Well, I'm a baseball fan all
5:01
Speaker 2: the way. I play every hour that I can play,
5:04
Speaker 2: and collecting every card I can collect. When I got
5:07
Speaker 2: that Baseball Encyclopedia, it was over. Now, you know, I
5:10
Speaker 2: became the all time information wor and I'm digging through
5:14
Speaker 2: trying to find out everything that I can about Pickles
5:17
Speaker 2: dill Hoffer and you know, Dodie Pasker. And as a
5:21
Speaker 2: matter of fact, you know here, you know, all these
5:24
Speaker 2: years later, it's it's stuck and I'm I'm I'm a
5:28
Speaker 2: baseball fan through and through, always have been, and it's
5:31
Speaker 2: been part of my DNA since as long as I
5:33
Speaker 2: can remember, you.
5:34
Speaker 1: Know, it's funny. The first game I remember similarly was
5:37
Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles, growing up a Baltimore Orioles fan. We
5:40
Speaker 1: went to we were playing the Milwaukee Brewers as well.
5:43
Speaker 1: Was when Milwaukee was in the American League. It was
5:46
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. My recollection was there was a four
5:49
Speaker 1: game series to end the season. We were three games back,
5:52
Speaker 1: so we had to win all four to beat them,
5:55
Speaker 1: and we won the first three, and my dad and
5:56
Speaker 1: I went to one of the first three games, and
5:58
Speaker 1: so as a treat he bought tickets to the last game,
6:01
Speaker 1: and so it was effectively a Winter Advances the loser
6:05
Speaker 1: goes home type game. And Jerry, I just remember one
6:08
Speaker 1: of the things that was so clear to me at
6:10
Speaker 1: that time was, you know, maybe we had less information
6:13
Speaker 1: at our fingertips, but I could name every player on
6:15
Speaker 1: that Milwaukee Brewers team that day, and I think I
6:18
Speaker 1: can name every Milwaukee Brewer on that team today. That
6:21
Speaker 1: team ultimately goes to the World Series. So it was
6:23
Speaker 1: a great team. But I've worked in baseball for twenty
6:27
Speaker 1: six twenty seven seasons now, I'm not sure I could
6:29
Speaker 1: name everybody on any other team right now except for
6:32
Speaker 1: the one I work for. But at that time, you
6:35
Speaker 1: knew every player in the league, and you knew their numbers.
6:39
Speaker 1: You could mimic their batting stances or their pitching styles.
6:42
Speaker 1: It was kind of the way we were brought up
6:43
Speaker 1: in the game where I remember my dad taught me
6:46
Speaker 1: how to pinch hit because he said, if you're a
6:48
Speaker 1: Baltimoreials fan, you got to know how to hit like
6:50
Speaker 1: Eddie Murray, Albumbria and Cal Ripken. And if you did that,
6:53
Speaker 1: you wake up one day and you realize, wow, I
6:55
Speaker 1: can actually switch hit because I was just mimicking the
6:58
Speaker 1: way they hit.
6:59
Speaker 2: So we did this and like like I'm sure you did.
7:01
Speaker 2: We did it by playing WIF football in the backyard.
7:04
Speaker 2: And I actually made it to the major leagues as
7:09
Speaker 2: a pitcher. I won't really qualify my major league career
7:12
Speaker 2: as having any There were some things that were offensive
7:14
Speaker 2: about it, but maybe not my batting skill. But when
7:19
Speaker 2: I got to the major leagues, you know I had
7:22
Speaker 2: I had gone ten years without swinging a bat, right,
7:25
Speaker 2: So I break in with the Indians in nineteen ninety three.
7:29
Speaker 2: I'm later traded to the Mets in nineteen ninety five.
7:32
Speaker 2: You know, I had graduated high school in nineteen eighty six,
7:35
Speaker 2: and that's the last time I actively hit, and and
7:40
Speaker 2: I went to spring training in ninety five as a
7:43
Speaker 2: switch hitter because through all the years I was born
7:47
Speaker 2: or right handed hitter, but through all the years playing
7:49
Speaker 2: WIF football, I had the courage to go do it
7:51
Speaker 2: in real games in high school. And I was pretty
7:54
Speaker 2: good at it for a high school kid in Jersey,
7:56
Speaker 2: you know. And we wound up. I get to to
8:00
Speaker 2: the big leagues, and I still fancy myself a switch hitter,
8:03
Speaker 2: and you know, I went out that year. The first
8:06
Speaker 2: at bat I took in the big leagues was against
8:09
Speaker 2: Billy Swift. No, I take that back. It was against
8:13
Speaker 2: John Courtright, who I think it was the only inning
8:16
Speaker 2: that John Courtwright, future player rep through. He had one
8:22
Speaker 2: inning for the Cincinnati Reds in ninety five coming out
8:25
Speaker 2: of the strike shortened spring, and I laid down a
8:29
Speaker 2: sacrifice month against him on opening day that year, which
8:32
Speaker 2: might have been one of my last, you know, actual sacrifices.
8:36
Speaker 2: I tried a number of times and didn't succeed, but
8:39
Speaker 2: it actually worked, and so I think that was a thing.
8:44
Speaker 2: And then maybe more importantly, the first at bat that
8:47
Speaker 2: I had as an actual hitter was against Billy Swift
8:50
Speaker 2: in Colorado, which famously was the game that Dante Bichett
8:54
Speaker 2: hit the walk off homer and extra innings. I technically
8:59
Speaker 2: believe I blew the first save in the history of
9:01
Speaker 2: the ballpark that day, coming in in the middle of
9:04
Speaker 2: the game with the Mets, and I took an ab
9:06
Speaker 2: against Billy Swift left handed, and and I got back
9:10
Speaker 2: to the dugout after punching out miserably, you know, not
9:13
Speaker 2: coming close to any of the pitches that were moving
9:15
Speaker 2: more than anyone in Central Jersey could make the ball
9:18
Speaker 2: move in the mid eighties. And I came back to
9:22
Speaker 2: the dugout and Bobby Wine was our bench coach with
9:25
Speaker 2: the Mets, and and he said, are you really a
9:28
Speaker 2: left handed hitter? And I said yeah, And he handed
9:33
Speaker 2: me at the right handed helmet. He goes, just stick
9:36
Speaker 2: with this one. At least it keeps your throwing arm
9:38
Speaker 2: out of the out of harm's way. And you know,
9:41
Speaker 2: and it was many years later that I actually got
9:43
Speaker 2: a hit, which is a fun story to tell of it.
9:45
Speaker 2: It's a but yeah, the things you learned as a
9:48
Speaker 2: young sports nut growing up and you're you know, the
9:51
Speaker 2: whiffle ball, the trying new things, the exploring, you know,
9:55
Speaker 2: what you're capable of. I hope that kids still do that,
9:59
Speaker 2: you know, but I know it was prominent growing up
10:02
Speaker 2: in the seventies and the eighties. Did you do it?
10:05
Speaker 2: I could I could be George Brett, or I could
10:07
Speaker 2: be Rod Crewe, or I could be you know, Carliu Strampsky.
10:10
Speaker 2: You think of the greatest, you know, unique batting stances
10:13
Speaker 2: in history, and you had him down. Now it became
10:16
Speaker 2: much more of a challenge, I can say, when they're
10:19
Speaker 2: throwing ninety five and you're trying to hit it than
10:21
Speaker 2: it was when you were trying to hit a wiffle ball.
10:23
Speaker 1: Well, Jerry, if you hadn't blown that save, Dante would
10:26
Speaker 1: have never had that iconic moment. So he Now I
10:29
Speaker 1: got to ask a question here. Do you recall sometimes
10:33
Speaker 1: you would pepper people you worked with with the question, Hey,
10:36
Speaker 1: if you were in the big leagues and you got
10:38
Speaker 1: five hundred played appearances, how many hits.
10:40
Speaker 2: Are a you got? What?
10:41
Speaker 1: What give us the range of answers and how you
10:43
Speaker 1: would typically respond to that.
10:45
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you the range of answers,
10:47
Speaker 2: I'm also going to throw my friend Matt Klintach right
10:50
Speaker 2: in the middle of the fire, so I would frequently.
10:54
Speaker 2: You know what, I'll flashback first by saying, very early
10:58
Speaker 2: in my my scouting career, I was sitting at Wrigley
11:02
Speaker 2: Field one day with Jim Fragosi, who at the time
11:06
Speaker 2: was working for the Elena Braves, and that day that
11:10
Speaker 2: Eric Gangnie was closing out a game for the Dodgers
11:14
Speaker 2: versus the Cubs, and Eric Carras's former Dodger was playing
11:18
Speaker 2: for the Cubs. And in the most disgusting array of
11:23
Speaker 2: three pitches that a human could possibly throw, Ganne lights
11:27
Speaker 2: up like a triple digit fastball when nobody was throwing
11:30
Speaker 2: that hard lollipop curveball that's traveling like sixty eight miles
11:35
Speaker 2: an hour, and then throws the bugs bunny change up
11:37
Speaker 2: that's you know, seventy eight And it's three pitches that
11:41
Speaker 2: could not have looked any more different, or the separation
11:44
Speaker 2: couldn't have been greater in the velocities. And in the
11:48
Speaker 2: last one, Eric Carras punches out, almost falls down in
11:51
Speaker 2: the box, and I laughed, and Forgosi was sitting behind me,
11:57
Speaker 2: and he whacked me in the back of the head
11:59
Speaker 2: and he said, hey, stupid, you don't laugh out loud,
12:04
Speaker 2: you laugh on the inside. And you know, and that
12:07
Speaker 2: was my first, you know, my first. You know, I
12:09
Speaker 2: guess for a into it's different when you're sitting in
12:13
Speaker 2: the dugout or the bullpen than it is when you're
12:15
Speaker 2: scouting in the stands. And that day, you know why
12:18
Speaker 2: that's relevant to this question. That day for ghost, he said,
12:22
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to give you a little advice.
12:23
Speaker 2: You know, you played for long enough. You know, we've
12:26
Speaker 2: been around the game for long enough. Every day that
12:30
Speaker 2: you spend in this spot as opposed to that spot,
12:34
Speaker 2: the game seems easier. And every row that you move back,
12:39
Speaker 2: it seems even easier. Still until you get up there.
12:41
Speaker 2: And he pointed to the suites and he said, then
12:44
Speaker 2: you get up there and you think it was really easy.
12:47
Speaker 2: And you know, Jim did a lot of jobs in
12:49
Speaker 2: baseball through the course of his life, managed all star player,
12:52
Speaker 2: et cetera. But I never forgot that advice. And for
12:57
Speaker 2: years I would ask the question sitting there watching games.
13:00
Speaker 2: You know, hey, if you were out there today and
13:04
Speaker 2: you had five hundred plate appearances in a major league season,
13:07
Speaker 2: how many hits do you think you could get? And
13:11
Speaker 2: I famously asked this exact question one night in the
13:14
Speaker 2: box sweet in Anaheim watching an Angels game, and the
13:20
Speaker 2: attendees were Matt Clintac out, who is one of your
13:25
Speaker 2: comrades in arms with the crew as we speak, great guy,
13:30
Speaker 2: very smart, longtime baseball person GM and his own right
13:33
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, where I don't think he gets enough credit
13:36
Speaker 2: for the things that he did while he was there.
13:38
Speaker 2: But Matt clintac our general manager Justin Hollander, the assistant
13:44
Speaker 2: GM of the New York Mets, Jonathan Strangio, and the
13:47
Speaker 2: Mets director of Personnel Nate Horwitz, as well as former
13:53
Speaker 2: Angel legend you know, Clyde Wright. And I asked this question,
13:59
Speaker 2: and Clyde, you know, who at the time, was in
14:01
Speaker 2: his early mid seventies, you know. I asked that question,
14:06
Speaker 2: and immediately Clyde throughout ah seventy and I said, seventy
14:14
Speaker 2: you're gonna get seventy hits and five hundred plate appearances.
14:19
Speaker 2: And he said I could really hit. And I said,
14:21
Speaker 2: I'm not in nineteen seventy one today, you know, walking
14:26
Speaker 2: out there, he said, that's why I'm saying seventy, you know,
14:30
Speaker 2: and we all gotta laugh out of it. And then
14:32
Speaker 2: we took a trip around the room, and to be
14:35
Speaker 2: fair to Matt, he's got seventy as the marker, which
14:38
Speaker 2: this tells you all you need to know about scouting, right,
14:42
Speaker 2: So you know, Matt then takes his crack at it
14:45
Speaker 2: and I Matt says, five hundred plate appearances. I'm gonna
14:50
Speaker 2: say fifty. I said fifty. You're gonna get fifty hits
14:53
Speaker 2: off of this, you know that what's coming out of
14:56
Speaker 2: major leaguer's hands. And this was fifteen years, twenty year whatever,
15:00
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, and stuff has only amplified since then.
15:05
Speaker 2: And you know, and I could not stop busting Matt
15:08
Speaker 2: the rest of the game about fifty hits. And and
15:12
Speaker 2: we shared our totals, you know, justin you know, said zero.
15:18
Speaker 2: I don't have that ability. It's a zero for me. Strangio,
15:23
Speaker 2: who's a really athletic guy, said, you know, I think
15:26
Speaker 2: I could stumble into five or ten, you know, just
15:29
Speaker 2: mishit a couple of balls and you know, put something
15:32
Speaker 2: in play. Similarly, Nate said, you know who was a
15:35
Speaker 2: basketball player in his athletic background, you know, I think
15:39
Speaker 2: I could get five. I made hit something in the
15:41
Speaker 2: infield and beat it out. So the answers ranged from
15:45
Speaker 2: from seventy with Clyde, who's an outlier, he was cast out.
15:49
Speaker 2: We told me to get out of the room. And
15:50
Speaker 2: then but when Clintex said fifty, you know, we had
15:55
Speaker 2: a fifty somewhere between five and ten, a five and
15:59
Speaker 2: a zero. And we spent the next two innings with
16:03
Speaker 2: me like ribbing Matt about the fifties. I said, how
16:06
Speaker 2: many hits did you get in the IVS, man? It's
16:09
Speaker 2: like fifty hits against the big leaders, And and you know,
16:13
Speaker 2: Matt kept standing up to it, and he said, all right,
16:16
Speaker 2: how many would you get? And I said zero. I
16:21
Speaker 2: couldn't hit when I was actually in the league. What
16:23
Speaker 2: makes me think I'm going to be able to do
16:24
Speaker 2: it now? This is a crazy question. You know, it's
16:27
Speaker 2: a baseball's fun game. Yeah.
16:30
Speaker 1: I love the fact that your payoff was always zinging
16:32
Speaker 1: people by saying the answer is always zero and seeing
16:36
Speaker 1: how crestfallen people would be. Jerry, I just want to
16:39
Speaker 1: touch on a few things you said there for the listeners.
16:42
Speaker 1: Jim Fergosi is such a unique guy. Because he's almost
16:45
Speaker 1: a throwback in the sense and first of all, may
16:47
Speaker 1: he rest in peace. Is he was the type of
16:50
Speaker 1: guy who touched almost everyone in our generation, despite the
16:54
Speaker 1: fact that I can attest I never worked with him,
16:56
Speaker 1: but every time I saw him, he was one of
16:58
Speaker 1: those types of guys. If he asked him question and
17:01
Speaker 1: he thought you were sincere, he would spend the whole
17:03
Speaker 1: game talking to you. And I just think I'm not
17:06
Speaker 1: sure the game has as many Jim Fergosis in it anymore.
17:09
Speaker 1: But I just want to say thank you to all
17:11
Speaker 1: the Jim Fergosis out there who have made such a
17:13
Speaker 1: mark on my career and I've learned so much from him.
17:16
Speaker 1: I also would like to say, for people who don't
17:18
Speaker 1: know Jim Fergosi's straight out of Central casting, I think
17:21
Speaker 1: he should have been in the Sopranos or good Fellas.
17:24
Speaker 1: He may or may not have rubbed somebody out at
17:26
Speaker 1: some point, but he was some kind of gentle giant
17:28
Speaker 1: and really spent time with people, which was phenomenal. So, Jerry,
17:33
Speaker 1: I want to touch base on your career just so
17:36
Speaker 1: the listeners understand you had a great career. You end
17:40
Speaker 1: up in your rookie year finishing eighth in the Rookie
17:42
Speaker 1: of the Year voting. I also did some research on you.
17:46
Speaker 1: You have a top five war season for reliever ever
17:49
Speaker 1: in the Colorado Rockies franchise history. Yes, thirty five saves
17:54
Speaker 1: over two year period. And then things that fans probably
17:57
Speaker 1: can't really appreciate. As a reliever, had five consecutive years
18:00
Speaker 1: of amassing more than seventy innings, including a career high
18:04
Speaker 1: ninety five innings in nineteen ninety seven, which is pretty remarkable.
18:07
Speaker 1: But I want to take you back to a specific day,
18:10
Speaker 1: February tenth, nineteen ninety four. You were with the Cleveland
18:14
Speaker 1: Indians now Guardians, but then Indians, and a free agent
18:19
Speaker 1: signing takes place. Jack Morris is famously signed by the team.
18:23
Speaker 1: It's in his kind of twilight years, shall I say,
18:26
Speaker 1: But he has rolled into camp, and what do you
18:29
Speaker 1: remember about how that acquisition was communicated to you? And
18:32
Speaker 1: what was the first impression Jack made on Cleveland Indians camp.
18:36
Speaker 2: Wow? You know at the time, it was that was
18:41
Speaker 2: coming out of an off season where some really prominent
18:47
Speaker 2: players in recent baseball history were still free agents, and
18:50
Speaker 2: we were headed into spring training, and I remember sitting
18:54
Speaker 2: out on our We had a plometrics field in winter Haven, Florida,
18:59
Speaker 2: and all of our you know, our pitchers and catchers
19:02
Speaker 2: are there. And this is I don't know, day two
19:04
Speaker 2: or three of camp. And we've known for a couple
19:07
Speaker 2: of days that that they they had signed Jack, but
19:09
Speaker 2: we hadn't seen him. And we're out there laying in
19:13
Speaker 2: the grass going through our our stretching, getting ready to
19:16
Speaker 2: do our our our plios and our morning run. And
19:21
Speaker 2: and Mike Cargrove was was then manager of the of
19:25
Speaker 2: the tribe, got up in front of the group and
19:27
Speaker 2: he said, gentlemen, I'm going to introduce you to a
19:30
Speaker 2: new teammate, though he needs no introduction, and and you know,
19:35
Speaker 2: puts his hands out and says Jack Morris, and this
19:38
Speaker 2: is you know, I'm thinking back Charlie Naggy and Jose
19:42
Speaker 2: Masa and Mark Clark, and you know, it was a
19:45
Speaker 2: it was a fun. Steve Farr was in that group,
19:47
Speaker 2: Derek Lilloquist, Eric Plunk, you know, a variety of young
19:51
Speaker 2: players that went on to have prominent careers that that
19:54
Speaker 2: were just breaking in at the time. And and Jack
19:58
Speaker 2: gets up in front of the group, you know, for
20:00
Speaker 2: day and he said gentlemen, I don't know what I'm
20:04
Speaker 2: doing here Minnesota and ninety one Toronto and ninety two
20:09
Speaker 2: and ninety three, it's ninety four. I'm here, hop on,
20:14
Speaker 2: we're going for a ride. And I remember laying there thinking,
20:18
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of things were going through my head, like,
20:21
Speaker 2: oh my god. The bravado to get up there and
20:24
Speaker 2: do that is probably, you know, born of pitching ten
20:28
Speaker 2: innings in Game seven of a World Series and coming
20:31
Speaker 2: out on top, you know, and having a Hall of
20:33
Speaker 2: Fame career. But then you know, the like that being
20:37
Speaker 2: your first day with this team that has probably an
20:39
Speaker 2: average age among the pitchers of maybe twenty seven. You know,
20:42
Speaker 2: it was a fairly young group. And we then break up,
20:46
Speaker 2: with the exception of Dennis Martinez, who felt, you know,
20:50
Speaker 2: he felt ancient then and still had another five or
20:54
Speaker 2: six All Stars type seasons left in him. But long
20:59
Speaker 2: story short, every morning we would go on these runs,
21:02
Speaker 2: you know, and and we would run somewhere between two
21:05
Speaker 2: and a half and five miles. And and this was
21:08
Speaker 2: a time when you know, strength and conditioning, you know,
21:12
Speaker 2: pliometrics was really I guess forefront with Cleveland trying to
21:17
Speaker 2: do something a little different than the other teams around us.
21:20
Speaker 2: And now these are all common practices, you know, for
21:23
Speaker 2: Major league teams. And uh, and we went on this
21:27
Speaker 2: this seashell course. It was along the lakes and Winterhaven,
21:32
Speaker 2: you know, where you had to dodge alligators and and
21:34
Speaker 2: you know, make your way back home. And we would
21:38
Speaker 2: take off on the seashell course and you would run
21:40
Speaker 2: I don't know, about half a mile and then there
21:43
Speaker 2: was there was a wooded area that probably ran another
21:46
Speaker 2: you know, we'll call it two miles through the woods
21:48
Speaker 2: and around the lakes, and then you would pop out
21:51
Speaker 2: on the other side of the you know, the woods,
21:53
Speaker 2: and you had about a half mile to get back
21:55
Speaker 2: to the base, which was that field where we were
22:00
Speaker 2: our stretching. And Grover would sit there in a chair,
22:04
Speaker 2: you know, and and with a timer and time everybody
22:07
Speaker 2: you know, in the early years, and and you know,
22:10
Speaker 2: we've got whatever it is, thirty pitchers in camp and
22:13
Speaker 2: and uh and everybody takes off and starts running and
22:17
Speaker 2: and this is Jack's first day in camp, I think,
22:20
Speaker 2: and and and he just takes off like a bat
22:22
Speaker 2: out of hell. And he's far and away. With the
22:25
Speaker 2: exception of Dennis the oldest guy in the group, and
22:29
Speaker 2: and he just he's gone. He's like long striding and
22:32
Speaker 2: he makes it out there half a mile and you're like, oh,
22:35
Speaker 2: and cow, this guy's insane. And and and he gets
22:38
Speaker 2: to the to the lip of the woods and just stops,
22:41
Speaker 2: you know, and Charlie Naggy could really run, you know,
22:44
Speaker 2: still still to this day, and you know, he could
22:47
Speaker 2: really run. And then there's this other big clump of
22:50
Speaker 2: twenty five guys and then Dennis you know, in the
22:53
Speaker 2: background somehow not breaking a sweat and making sure his
22:56
Speaker 2: hair was perfection. But Jack just and the group passes
23:01
Speaker 2: him by and runs into the woods and and Jack
23:04
Speaker 2: just walks across. He cuts the the he cuts it,
23:09
Speaker 2: cuts the two miles into what I would say is
23:11
Speaker 2: a very casual walk, gets to the other side where
23:15
Speaker 2: you come out of the woods, sees us coming and
23:18
Speaker 2: then bat out of hell. He's gone again and runs
23:21
Speaker 2: to the field and here comes the group behind him,
23:25
Speaker 2: and you know, and we just finished running three miles
23:27
Speaker 2: or whatever it is on a on a you know,
23:29
Speaker 2: humid Florida morning, and uh, and everybody's back laying on
23:33
Speaker 2: the field, you know, putting their their taking their running
23:38
Speaker 2: shoes off, putting their spikes on, whatever they're doing. And
23:41
Speaker 2: Grover gets up and puts his arm over Jack as
23:45
Speaker 2: the last guy's trickle in from finishing their run, and
23:48
Speaker 2: he said, gentlemen, we want to go places, and this
23:53
Speaker 2: is how you get there. This man is an animal.
23:57
Speaker 2: And and Jack standing next to Groover the whole time
24:00
Speaker 2: going like this, and we're watching. He said, he said,
24:03
Speaker 2: you want to win championships, you do it like this
24:06
Speaker 2: guy does it. We're sitting there thinking, all right, if
24:11
Speaker 2: that's how it works, you know, But it was. It was.
24:14
Speaker 2: It was a pretty good event, and like weirdly enough,
24:17
Speaker 2: and I think that was Jack's last year as an
24:19
Speaker 2: active player. I think the club released him August, just
24:23
Speaker 2: before the strike, and and I think he was I
24:27
Speaker 2: know he was leading our team in wins. He might
24:29
Speaker 2: have been leading the American League. It was like he
24:31
Speaker 2: was well up there and you're thinking, this guy does
24:35
Speaker 2: nothing but win games. And it was never won nothing.
24:38
Speaker 2: It was always you know, But somehow he's still standing
24:41
Speaker 2: out there in the six or seventh inning, and I
24:43
Speaker 2: now know it's because he wasn't wasting his time burying
24:45
Speaker 2: his legs in Florida in February.
24:49
Speaker 1: Well, in an era where we were tracking stats that
24:53
Speaker 1: don't really matter as much. I think he won the
24:55
Speaker 1: most games in the decade of the eighties, which also
24:58
Speaker 1: may have been the decade where Eddie Murray the most
25:00
Speaker 1: game game winning RBIs, which now is a stat that
25:03
Speaker 1: is totally defunct, but it's it's an epic story. Jerry.
25:06
Speaker 1: You you were traded twice in your career, relatively early on.
25:11
Speaker 1: You you go from the Cleveland Indians to the Mets,
25:13
Speaker 1: and then the Mets to the Rockies. From a player's perspective,
25:17
Speaker 1: what was it like when you were traded?
25:19
Speaker 2: It's probably why I I'm so I guess willing to
25:23
Speaker 2: do a trade now is exciting, and uh, you know,
25:26
Speaker 2: I think like every player when when you are drafted
25:31
Speaker 2: and go through a development system and I'm waiting to
25:34
Speaker 2: encounter the first player that doesn't feel this. You just
25:37
Speaker 2: feel like that's your team. That's your team. You're always
25:40
Speaker 2: going to be whatever, you know, a Mariner, an Indian,
25:45
Speaker 2: you know. But the reality is that somewhere along the way,
25:49
Speaker 2: like in most marriages, you know, there's going to be
25:51
Speaker 2: uncomfortable moments and uh, you know, you fight through those
25:55
Speaker 2: things or you get traded and in the In the
25:59
Speaker 2: my case, I was traded from Cleveland to New York,
26:03
Speaker 2: and I grew up a Mets fan, so it was
26:06
Speaker 2: particularly exciting for me at that time. I had been
26:10
Speaker 2: traded for a couple of days before I knew I
26:13
Speaker 2: was traded because I was playing winter ball in Puerto
26:15
Speaker 2: Rico and I didn't have a TV, so and this
26:19
Speaker 2: was before cell phones were common. And I'm still waiting
26:25
Speaker 2: to I've joked around with Dan and John Hart in
26:28
Speaker 2: the years since. I'm still waiting to get a call
26:30
Speaker 2: from from Cleveland. I finally got a phone call from
26:34
Speaker 2: Mike Remlinger, who was a pitcher at the time with
26:38
Speaker 2: the Mets, who threw the home run ball to Dante
26:41
Speaker 2: vi chet and in the six degrees game. Mike Remlinger
26:46
Speaker 2: called me, or came over to my apartment, knocked on
26:49
Speaker 2: my door, and he said, Hey, you need to call
26:52
Speaker 2: New York. You got traded to the Mets. And I
26:55
Speaker 2: went out to the payphone in the parking lot out
26:58
Speaker 2: in front of the the complex, and I called Joe mclvain,
27:02
Speaker 2: who you know, welcomed me to the Mets and and
27:05
Speaker 2: the rest of his history. But it was exciting for me.
27:07
Speaker 2: I've often said my my favorite experience in baseball was
27:11
Speaker 2: getting traded in the Mets in my first year there.
27:13
Speaker 2: And you know, my next favorite was getting traded away,
27:17
Speaker 2: you know, And the same is true. When I got
27:20
Speaker 2: traded to Colorado, I was, you know, I needed something fresh.
27:24
Speaker 2: I did not have a good year in nineteen ninety six,
27:27
Speaker 2: and when I was traded to Colorado, I felt like
27:31
Speaker 2: it was kind of a new lease on life. And
27:35
Speaker 2: you know, I was always generally speaking, willing to do
27:39
Speaker 2: whatever that the club would throw at me. And I
27:42
Speaker 2: knew Colorado had opportunity. Uh it's a it was particularly
27:46
Speaker 2: tough place to pitch, and if you could just kind
27:49
Speaker 2: of grind your way through, you would you might find
27:52
Speaker 2: opportunity to move up the food chain. And and that's
27:56
Speaker 2: kind of how it worked for me there. And spent
27:58
Speaker 2: four wonderful years with the Rockies as a player and
28:02
Speaker 2: met some of some some guys really who are still
28:05
Speaker 2: some of the closest friends I've had in my life,
28:07
Speaker 2: whether it be in the front office and the latter
28:10
Speaker 2: part of my existence there or on the field. And uh,
28:14
Speaker 2: and if you can't enjoy the excitement of coming to
28:19
Speaker 2: cores Field in the nineties, at the height of the
28:22
Speaker 2: steroid hea and trying to survive. You know, it was
28:26
Speaker 2: it was. It was definitely not for the faint of heart,
28:28
Speaker 2: but I loved it. It was it was a great
28:30
Speaker 2: you know run, and you know, the nineties in general,
28:33
Speaker 2: I wouldn't change a thing, and often said, then we
28:36
Speaker 2: have the best job in the world, and and now
28:39
Speaker 2: you know, doing what I do, I may have changed
28:42
Speaker 2: my mind. This could be the best job in the
28:43
Speaker 2: world too. It's a it's it's just it's a fun
28:47
Speaker 2: game to work in.
28:48
Speaker 1: Jerry, I think what you're presenting is such a unique attitude.
28:51
Speaker 1: Most people don't have such fond recollections of getting traded.
28:54
Speaker 1: It's very disquieting and off putting, and you're thinking of
28:57
Speaker 1: family and friends and how it impacts. But I think
29:00
Speaker 1: what you just shared there is really a perfect encapsulation
29:03
Speaker 1: of who you are. You just make the most of
29:05
Speaker 1: every situation, and you treat every task in front of
29:07
Speaker 1: you as if it's the exact thing you want to
29:09
Speaker 1: be embroiled in. And I want to touch for a
29:12
Speaker 1: second on some of the managers you had in your
29:15
Speaker 1: playing career, and I'm sure I'm going to miss a few,
29:17
Speaker 1: But you mentioned Mike Cargrove earlier, Bobby Valentine with the Mets.
29:21
Speaker 1: I believe you had some time with Buddy Bell in Colorado.
29:25
Speaker 1: You know, this was a different era for managers. This
29:27
Speaker 1: was an era where the managers were kind of the
29:29
Speaker 1: front We're facing a person and personality of the organization.
29:34
Speaker 1: It was also kind of their way or the highway.
29:36
Speaker 1: They kind of set what the tone was going to
29:38
Speaker 1: be for the franchise. And those were three pretty strong
29:40
Speaker 1: willed guys, and Bobby Valentine was quite a character of
29:44
Speaker 1: memory service, Like, is there a story you have from
29:47
Speaker 1: in experience with one of those three guys that really
29:49
Speaker 1: stands out to you and how it maybe shaped you
29:51
Speaker 1: in your career and also not only your career as
29:53
Speaker 1: a player, but now that you've become an executive.
29:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually a few, and I would add a few
29:58
Speaker 2: other names to that list. You know, I played for
30:00
Speaker 2: almost two years for Dallas Green in New York, who
30:03
Speaker 2: might have been the most powerful of all those personalities.
30:08
Speaker 2: You know. I played for Don Baylor for a number
30:10
Speaker 2: of years in Colorado, who had a great career as
30:12
Speaker 2: a player and was like a legendary leader who said
30:15
Speaker 2: one of the funniest things that then a manager has
30:18
Speaker 2: ever said to me. On many different levels that I'll
30:22
Speaker 2: touch on. Also had the pleasure of playing for Jim
30:25
Speaker 2: Leland for a year, and you know, and seeing what
30:28
Speaker 2: I thought was, you know, Jim Leland and Bobby Valentine,
30:32
Speaker 2: you know what they're the common trait between the two.
30:35
Speaker 2: I thought they were brilliant strategists, you know, and even
30:39
Speaker 2: while you were playing for them, you could really appreciate
30:42
Speaker 2: what they were doing and staying ahead of the game.
30:46
Speaker 2: I feel like I learned the most. I only played
30:49
Speaker 2: for Bobby for six weeks, but I got to know
30:53
Speaker 2: Bobby towards the end of my playing career and into
30:57
Speaker 2: my scouting life when he was managing in Japan and
31:01
Speaker 2: spending time around Bobby there. I thought his you know,
31:05
Speaker 2: Bobby's first, his confidence level. You know, he didn't think
31:09
Speaker 2: there was ever a moment he couldn't be bigger than
31:13
Speaker 2: And I just thought the as far as being prepared
31:17
Speaker 2: for anything that could happen in a baseball game, I
31:21
Speaker 2: have a like a mount rushmore of people, and Bobby's
31:25
Speaker 2: on that mount. I've always held Buck Showalter on that mount.
31:28
Speaker 2: I never played for Buck. But I feel like Buck
31:31
Speaker 2: would be thinking about weird stuff that could happen in
31:33
Speaker 2: a baseball game at four o'clock in the morning and
31:36
Speaker 2: get up and write it down on a pad, so
31:38
Speaker 2: he wouldn't forget it. You know, you would know better
31:40
Speaker 2: than I. But uh, Bobby was I remember Bobby walking
31:45
Speaker 2: out to the mound. This was shortly after Dallas Green
31:48
Speaker 2: was let go in New York and Bobby, you know,
31:52
Speaker 2: I was pitching as a setup guy for the Mets,
31:55
Speaker 2: and we had a young catcher named Alberto Castillo who
31:59
Speaker 2: und up going on playing a long career himself. And
32:02
Speaker 2: and uh and Alberto as as I'm trying to finish
32:07
Speaker 2: out this, you know, we got a two run lead
32:09
Speaker 2: in the eighth inning. Ultimately I give up a hit
32:12
Speaker 2: I think it was to Kevin Stoker, and uh, and
32:16
Speaker 2: the game is tied. The next day, I, you know,
32:19
Speaker 2: Bobby's out in the outfield and he comes over and
32:22
Speaker 2: stands next to me. And I don't know him very well,
32:23
Speaker 2: you know, if at all. And he stands next to me,
32:26
Speaker 2: and he said, why would you shake off the kid
32:29
Speaker 2: in that situation? You know? And you know, and I'm
32:33
Speaker 2: in the moment I'm twenty seven years old. I don't
32:34
Speaker 2: think I'm like the old guy or anything. But uh,
32:38
Speaker 2: you know, why would you shake him off? And I said,
32:40
Speaker 2: I just felt more comfortable, you know, throwing the sinker there.
32:43
Speaker 2: That's my thing. And you know, he didn't hit it
32:45
Speaker 2: out him and and he said, I'm just going to
32:47
Speaker 2: give you. And Bobby had been with Triple A Norfolk
32:51
Speaker 2: for the long season where his catcher was Alberto Castillo,
32:56
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, and Berto he trust, and he
33:00
Speaker 2: could really throw, and and later in his career he
33:04
Speaker 2: developed an act for putting down the right fingers. This
33:07
Speaker 2: day wasn't one of them. And and Bobby tells me,
33:10
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put you back in there tomorrow. Do not
33:13
Speaker 2: shake him off. Trust the kid. So you know, I
33:16
Speaker 2: got out there for the next outing with with Alberto
33:19
Speaker 2: and and it and it changed the way I approached,
33:22
Speaker 2: you know, receiving signs because the very first pitch that
33:26
Speaker 2: he puts down, he gives me a two. And I
33:29
Speaker 2: just stared at him. You know, I wasn't gonna shake
33:32
Speaker 2: because I didn't want to get in trouble with Bobby.
33:34
Speaker 2: But I don't have a curveball. I can't I can't
33:36
Speaker 2: work with you on that one. And you know, so
33:38
Speaker 2: I just stared and and ultimately, you know, he shrugged
33:42
Speaker 2: his shoulders and gave me the wiggle, and I just
33:44
Speaker 2: kept staring. I don't have that one either, and you know,
33:47
Speaker 2: finally I got him where he needed to go and
33:48
Speaker 2: he put down a sinker and I threw it and
33:50
Speaker 2: the game went better. But Bobby, I thought was he
33:55
Speaker 2: was the most willing of any manager that I was
33:59
Speaker 2: around to share his wisdom with you, you know, and
34:04
Speaker 2: sometimes it could be taken as you know, as over
34:08
Speaker 2: you know, overbearing too much. But later in my life
34:12
Speaker 2: I really started to appreciate that Dallas was the old
34:16
Speaker 2: time you know, slaper ruler across your knuckles. Guy. I
34:20
Speaker 2: remember pitching in Saint Louis one night in nineteen ninety five.
34:24
Speaker 2: You know, I went out, I pitched the eighth inning
34:25
Speaker 2: and what was a closer game, and we blew the
34:29
Speaker 2: score open, and I was told, you're going back out
34:32
Speaker 2: there for the ninth. And this was after you know then,
34:36
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, with inning totals, it was pretty common
34:38
Speaker 2: to throw multiple innings, and I think I threw part
34:41
Speaker 2: of the seventh, all of the eighth and then they're
34:43
Speaker 2: sending me back out for the ninth and I've only
34:45
Speaker 2: got two pitches and you know, or neither one of
34:47
Speaker 2: them was particularly you know, fearsome, and you know, and
34:51
Speaker 2: he sends me out there for the third inning. And
34:54
Speaker 2: if you remember old Bush Stadium with the turf, and
34:56
Speaker 2: it was you know, it was like boiling hot. And
35:00
Speaker 2: and uh, I'm out there, and I squatted down in
35:03
Speaker 2: back of the mound. After a long at bat with
35:06
Speaker 2: two outs in the ninth, Brian Jordan fouls off a
35:09
Speaker 2: bunch of pitches. Uh, wind up, wind up, giving up
35:12
Speaker 2: a single through the right side, and he's on first
35:15
Speaker 2: base and and Dallas comes charging out. I think it
35:18
Speaker 2: is the first time I ever saw him jog, you know.
35:20
Speaker 2: He came charging out of the dugout and gets to
35:23
Speaker 2: the mound and and and starts pointing at me, you know,
35:26
Speaker 2: and and and pounding on my chest. He said, don't
35:29
Speaker 2: you ever look tired on my mount. Get your ass
35:31
Speaker 2: up there and get the next hitter. And that was
35:34
Speaker 2: the last time I ever squatted. There's a I learned
35:37
Speaker 2: a lesson. You know, Sometimes it's what you portray, even
35:40
Speaker 2: if you're feeling a different way. And learn that from Dallas.
35:45
Speaker 2: My favorite Don Baylor ism is the day that I
35:48
Speaker 2: got traded to Colorado, which was and as I just recapped,
35:52
Speaker 2: it was a fun experience. When I got the phone
35:54
Speaker 2: call from Bob Gippart, I showed up in spring training
35:58
Speaker 2: and uh, and I've got my bag and I'm walking
36:01
Speaker 2: past we called Don Groove. Where I'm walking past Groove's
36:05
Speaker 2: office and I see him sitting at his desk, and
36:08
Speaker 2: I walked in and I dropped my bag and I
36:10
Speaker 2: put out my hand to introduce myself and and he said,
36:13
Speaker 2: it's good to meet you. He said, the way I
36:16
Speaker 2: see it, and I will, I will choose my language
36:18
Speaker 2: appropriately here he's he said, the way I see it,
36:21
Speaker 2: Pictures should be seen and not heard. The only thing
36:23
Speaker 2: you can do is f up what my offense worked
36:25
Speaker 2: all night to do. So get in there and be
36:27
Speaker 2: seen and not heard. I picked up my bag and
36:31
Speaker 2: I thought, oh my god, I'm not going to be
36:32
Speaker 2: here very long. But yeah, it was a different time
36:36
Speaker 2: with managers. And but I think all of those guys,
36:41
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's guys like Buddy and Groove who
36:44
Speaker 2: had unbelievable playing careers that led to long managerial Stints
36:48
Speaker 2: or guys like like Leland and Bobby who I think
36:52
Speaker 2: would make anybody short list of best strategists of the
36:55
Speaker 2: last you know, thirty five years in baseball, I got
36:59
Speaker 2: a chance to play for some really unique people, and
37:02
Speaker 2: I learned a lot from Jerry.
37:03
Speaker 1: I think your instincts about Buck, Show Walter or spot On,
37:06
Speaker 1: he was an exceptional strategist. I've never seen somebody better
37:10
Speaker 1: prepared to make in game decisions to try to help
37:13
Speaker 1: a team win then Buck. It was really remarkable to
37:16
Speaker 1: witness on a day in a day basis, and for
37:18
Speaker 1: him to do it as long as he did with
37:19
Speaker 1: the energy that was required to do that was pretty remarkable.
37:23
Speaker 1: And this was, you know, started in an era when
37:25
Speaker 1: he didn't have all the information and his fingertips are
37:28
Speaker 1: certainly not the information we have today. But he was
37:30
Speaker 1: filling in those gaps and he was kind of ahead
37:33
Speaker 1: of the game, I would say in that regards. So, Jerry,
37:35
Speaker 1: I want to fast forward to probably a little bit
37:38
Speaker 1: of a less happy day, which was March of twenty eleven,
37:42
Speaker 1: two thousand and one. I'm sorry when you ultimately decide
37:45
Speaker 1: the right thing to do for you and for your
37:47
Speaker 1: family is to retire. What factors went into that, What emotions,
37:50
Speaker 1: what thoughts did you have on that day?
37:53
Speaker 2: You know, it was like you might expect it was
37:56
Speaker 2: at the time, it was heartbreak. You think I was
37:58
Speaker 2: thirty two years old. I felt like I was in
38:03
Speaker 2: the prime of my career. I was much better in
38:06
Speaker 2: my you know, my late twenties and early thirties than
38:09
Speaker 2: I was, you know before. No one will ever know
38:11
Speaker 2: because I was pitching in Colorado. But I felt like
38:14
Speaker 2: I was better, and you know, and I was. I
38:17
Speaker 2: was coming off of I would say, a two or
38:20
Speaker 2: three year run that was where I was pretty steady
38:23
Speaker 2: contributor and and I and I really loved where I was,
38:27
Speaker 2: and you know, the year before was trying, and I thought,
38:31
Speaker 2: you know, that's one of those where I had a
38:34
Speaker 2: spinal fusion surgery and and missed a fair bit of time.
38:38
Speaker 2: And to me, it's one of those character builders, the
38:41
Speaker 2: things that you never want to change because they form
38:44
Speaker 2: who you are. And and you know, really who I
38:48
Speaker 2: am today is born of those experiences. But the day
38:51
Speaker 2: that the that the doctors tell me that it's that
38:55
Speaker 2: that I would be taking huge risks to my my
38:57
Speaker 2: future ability to walk or play play catch with my kids.
39:01
Speaker 2: If I didn't, if I continued to try to go pitch,
39:05
Speaker 2: and I remember sitting on a trainer's table and I
39:08
Speaker 2: was crying like a baby, and I and I think
39:11
Speaker 2: I would again if the same circumstance were to happen today.
39:16
Speaker 2: And nobody outside of the docks was in the room.
39:19
Speaker 2: And Dan O'Dowd came charging into the room in the
39:23
Speaker 2: aggressive way that only Dan could and and he said, buddy,
39:27
Speaker 2: you're gonna take this like a man, like you take
39:29
Speaker 2: like you've taken everything else as long as I've known you.
39:33
Speaker 2: You're gonna put on You're gonna put on different pants.
39:35
Speaker 2: You're gonna come over to the other side and help
39:39
Speaker 2: us build a championship team from the front office. And
39:43
Speaker 2: that's what I did. I got on a plane and
39:45
Speaker 2: I flew home and I got actually long pants, because
39:48
Speaker 2: as you know, when you go to spring training, I
39:50
Speaker 2: had like one pair of slacks for for the UH,
39:53
Speaker 2: for for whatever dinner event you're going to go to.
39:56
Speaker 2: And outside of that, I had cargo shorts and T shirts.
39:59
Speaker 2: But U you know, I went home and I got
40:02
Speaker 2: some slacks. I was gone for three or four days.
40:04
Speaker 2: I came back and you know, I was I was
40:07
Speaker 2: fortunate enough that year to be given a lot of
40:11
Speaker 2: different exposures without having a lot of responsibility, and and
40:16
Speaker 2: I got to learn a lot and meet people and
40:19
Speaker 2: get to work with people like you and Josh Burns
40:23
Speaker 2: like at that time, Michael Hill, I got the people
40:27
Speaker 2: that were around the Rockies at that time. I think
40:31
Speaker 2: there was one at one point in time, from the
40:34
Speaker 2: time I finished up as a player until you know,
40:38
Speaker 2: until I left and ultimately went to the Red Sox,
40:41
Speaker 2: I think we had like seven future general managers working
40:44
Speaker 2: in that space at different intervals, from from you and
40:49
Speaker 2: Josh myself, John Daniels, Michael Hill, you know, and Billy
40:55
Speaker 2: Clintech Yeah, and Billy. I don't even remember seeing Billy,
40:58
Speaker 2: you know. But it's it was a remarkable, you know, stretch.
41:02
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, and then you throw Scott Service in, who
41:05
Speaker 1: was a future manager and you know, did a lot
41:08
Speaker 1: of things in the game. It was a and the
41:10
Speaker 1: thing that makes it even more remarkable is we probably
41:12
Speaker 1: at no point had more than twelve people working in
41:14
Speaker 1: the front office. So it wasn't like these were seven
41:17
Speaker 1: or eight of sixty people. It was like, at different
41:20
Speaker 1: points it was five or six of fourteen people who
41:23
Speaker 1: worked in the front office. Yeah, it was remarkable, Jerry.
41:26
Speaker 1: I remember that day as well, because what was going
41:28
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes was, you know, this was happening
41:32
Speaker 1: in spring training, so as proximate to the season you were,
41:35
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a very vital part of that team.
41:38
Speaker 1: Dan was aspirational to the team contending that year, and
41:41
Speaker 1: so there was discussions around whether you would be willing
41:44
Speaker 1: to defer some of your money so that we could
41:45
Speaker 1: go reallocate your salary on the market, which was probably
41:49
Speaker 1: pretty sparse at the time to get a reliever. So
41:52
Speaker 1: I remember, I don't know, it must have been before
41:54
Speaker 1: or after Dan came in. Somebody in the front office
41:57
Speaker 1: who were made nameless encouraged me to go talk to
42:00
Speaker 1: you about that very topic. And I remember coming into
42:02
Speaker 1: that training room and seeing you in the exact state
42:05
Speaker 1: you described, which was exceptionally appropriate for the situation. And
42:09
Speaker 1: this was my first moment in my career, and I
42:11
Speaker 1: was very junior at the time that I realized, I
42:14
Speaker 1: know what my boss asked me to do, and I
42:15
Speaker 1: absolutely cannot do it in this instance, like humanity has
42:19
Speaker 1: to prevail, you had just received information that was life
42:22
Speaker 1: altering for you, and you know, as you always would,
42:25
Speaker 1: it proved to be very positive for you ultimately, but
42:27
Speaker 1: in that moment, it was very traumatic for you, and
42:30
Speaker 1: it was not the right time to have a business conversation,
42:32
Speaker 1: and so we tabled that for the future. But I've
42:35
Speaker 1: often looked back at that and thought that was the
42:37
Speaker 1: beginning of a great friendship and relationship. And if I
42:40
Speaker 1: had handled that to the letter of the law as
42:43
Speaker 1: to as it was asked, my guess is that the
42:46
Speaker 1: integrity of our relationship would have faltered to that moment
42:49
Speaker 1: and we probably wouldn't have been able to come together
42:51
Speaker 1: as we have. And so the rare moment where I
42:55
Speaker 1: did exactly the opposite of what my boss asked me
42:57
Speaker 1: to do, but it was felt in the moment the
42:59
Speaker 1: exact right thing. So, Jerry, there's so many stories along
43:03
Speaker 1: the way between your retirement and this date, but I
43:06
Speaker 1: do want to fast forward to July first, twenty ten.
43:10
Speaker 1: Ken Kendrick, owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks, and Derek Hall,
43:14
Speaker 1: a very funny and accomplished man in his own right,
43:17
Speaker 1: ultimately relieve your friend, my friend Josh Burns and manager A. J.
43:23
Speaker 1: Hinch of their roles at that moment, and they decide
43:27
Speaker 1: to promote you as an interim general manager, and I
43:29
Speaker 1: believe Kurt Gibson was also maybe anointed the manager at
43:33
Speaker 1: the time. This has got to be a dream come
43:35
Speaker 1: true for you, but it's not exactly how you probably
43:38
Speaker 1: wanted to ascend to beingcoming a GM. How was that
43:42
Speaker 1: day for you?
43:43
Speaker 2: I would say it was chaos, you know, as Josh
43:49
Speaker 2: was in with Ken Kendrick and at the time, no
43:54
Speaker 2: one knew what was going on. But Josh was in
43:57
Speaker 2: with Ken Kendrick. And the only reason I knew that
44:00
Speaker 2: that was the case was because Derek, you know, invited
44:03
Speaker 2: me to come over and sit in his office. And
44:05
Speaker 2: at the same time that they were, you know, relieving Josh,
44:08
Speaker 2: they were asking me to pick up the helm and
44:12
Speaker 2: serve as an introm and you know, and and I
44:16
Speaker 2: remember telling Derek, you know, I'm I would I would
44:19
Speaker 2: love to do it, but you know, and that's the
44:22
Speaker 2: easy one. Uh. They had already talked about the notion
44:25
Speaker 2: that this would also include aj and you know, I
44:29
Speaker 2: didn't give him an answer before I left the room,
44:32
Speaker 2: but I immediately went to Josh's office and he, as
44:36
Speaker 2: you might expect as soon as he left Ken's office,
44:40
Speaker 2: he left the building. So I went to his office
44:43
Speaker 2: and it was empty, and somebody said that he had already,
44:46
Speaker 2: you know, gone down to his car. So I ran
44:48
Speaker 2: downstairs and I actually caught him in his car as
44:51
Speaker 2: he was ready to drive out of the parking lot.
44:54
Speaker 2: And uh, and I said, I have no idea, you
44:56
Speaker 2: know why all this is happening, but here's what. They
44:59
Speaker 2: just asked me, what do you think? And he said,
45:02
Speaker 2: he said, go for it, and he was. He was
45:05
Speaker 2: obviously in a pretty emotional moment himself, but you know,
45:09
Speaker 2: I did it. It was it was uh, you know,
45:13
Speaker 2: the first act was driving over and you know, letting
45:17
Speaker 2: AJ know that that, you know, we were going to
45:19
Speaker 2: relieve him of his duty. Uh. Both guys have gone
45:23
Speaker 2: on to pretty damn good careers. AJ has had an
45:27
Speaker 2: outstanding career as a Major League manager, and somewhere in
45:31
Speaker 2: there has done everything from being an interim GM himself
45:35
Speaker 2: to running a scouting department to you know, managing the
45:38
Speaker 2: World Series champs. So uh, again, really fortunate to work
45:43
Speaker 2: with that group and that experience, as you know, like
45:47
Speaker 2: you you can work. At that time, I was a
45:51
Speaker 2: VP of player personnel overseeing you know, all of our
45:55
Speaker 2: scouting departments, and and you think you're read for the
46:01
Speaker 2: next opportunity until the light turns on, and then all
46:06
Speaker 2: of a sudden, it's moving fast, and it shocks you
46:09
Speaker 2: how fast it moves, and all of the different things
46:12
Speaker 2: that you are, all of a sudden responsible for. And
46:16
Speaker 2: you know what I would say about that summer, you know,
46:18
Speaker 2: the late summer of twenty ten. I think we through
46:22
Speaker 2: the trade deadline. Like you said, that was I think
46:25
Speaker 2: July first second, somewhere in there, and we were headed
46:29
Speaker 2: into the trade deadline clearly having a miserable season, which
46:32
Speaker 2: is the only reason why something like this tends to happen.
46:35
Speaker 2: And you know, we were able by doing what we do,
46:39
Speaker 2: make trades, we reset and put the organization I think
46:43
Speaker 2: in a pretty good place. And the following year we
46:46
Speaker 2: were able to win a divisional championship I think in
46:49
Speaker 2: no small port by doing what we did at the
46:51
Speaker 2: trade deadline. And a lesson that I learned in that
46:56
Speaker 2: summer was that you should always approach it as this
47:00
Speaker 2: is a village. Because I was never I would not
47:03
Speaker 2: have been capable of unilaterally making decisions that would have
47:07
Speaker 2: been for the benefit of the Arizona Diamondbacks. But with
47:12
Speaker 2: Peter wood Fork and Sharaze Raymond and Tom Allison and
47:16
Speaker 2: at the variety, Helen Zellman. You know, the people that
47:18
Speaker 2: were there with me at the time who could contribute.
47:23
Speaker 2: You know, Bob Gebhart, who was my GM in Colorado
47:29
Speaker 2: while I was a player, was then working as a
47:31
Speaker 2: special assistant for US in Arizona as well. So many
47:35
Speaker 2: people contributing to making you know, what I think are
47:39
Speaker 2: good decisions that you know, as I look back on
47:41
Speaker 2: them now, were great decisions. It was, and I can
47:45
Speaker 2: honestly say that not one of them did I make
47:47
Speaker 2: on my own. It was something that we were doing collectively.
47:50
Speaker 1: Jerry, thank you so much for the generosity of your time,
47:53
Speaker 1: your thoughtfulness, and your passion for the game of baseball.
47:56
Speaker 1: Join us every Thursday on Rosters to rings USh