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Eyewitness Reveals Gabby Murder Scene Details · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Death by throttling, death by strangulation,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: manual strangulation. That is the cod cause of death for
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: twenty two year old Gabby Potito. At this hour, we
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: are now learning more details about the crime scene itself.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: What are the clues left behind? What does an eye
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: witness have to say about what he saw at the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Gabby Petito homicide scene? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. First
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at KSLTV.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Well KSL has elected not to make that video public.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: We did show it to someone who had worked numerous homicides.
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  Speaker 1: Oh dozen't rutually every murdered that I prosecuted. I went
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: to the crime scene. Longtime Saltway County prosecutor Kent Morgan
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: came away with distinct impressions from this scene. This is quick,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: This is not sitting here for five or six hours
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  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to conceal the crime. He
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: also didn't notice any obvious signs of a struggle on
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the ground. One of the things I've been seeing in
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: this story is a history of these individuals getting into fights,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and that she attacked him. I don't see that here. Also,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I see is one individual who suffered the damage and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: no evidence of injury created by her. Everything that you
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: are hearing, this veteran a prosecutor Ken Morgan say, is important.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: No detail is too small to consider. In this case,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I recall prosecuting a serial killer and we could never
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: catch him. We finally got a woman's body. She was
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: always a Jane Doe. We never knew who she was,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: but we could link her body to the previous killings.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: The location and condition of the one earring of hers
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: changed the entire scenario of how her murder occurred. One earring.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: You have to take each piece of evidence, even if
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it's just an ear ring, even if it's just a
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  Speaker 1: pair of boots, and you have to analyze where is it,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: why is it there, Why are they undisturbed, sitting up
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: or are they Every single piece of evidence tells you something,
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  Speaker 1: and this crime scene must be analyzed very very careful.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Take a listen now to our cut three twenty two
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  Speaker 1: also KSL TV listen. More than three weeks after her
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  Speaker 1: body was discovered in Titon County, Wyoming, new answers finally
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  Speaker 1: came today over what happened to Gabby Petito. Here By
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: fine the cause of manner of death to be caused
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  Speaker 1: death by strangulation in a manner of his homicide the
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  Speaker 1: corners four weeks when Chopper five flew over the crime scene,
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  Speaker 1: a photographer spotted the remains above ground but covered possibly
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: by a blanket. Hiking shoes were on the ground next
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  Speaker 1: to the body, covered by a blanket. That means the
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  Speaker 1: scene was staged. Hiking boots next to the body. Were
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: they sitting up? Were they knocked over? If they were
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: not knocked over, what does that tell me? We also
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: know that Gabby's body was found just five minutes and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: that's walking from where Gabby's four transit had been spotted
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: by Red Blue Bethune. All of these facts are telling
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  Speaker 1: me something. They are telling me who the killer is. Again,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: series XM one eleven, where crime still matters, where we
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: want justice. With me an all star panel to try
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  Speaker 1: and make sense of what we are learning and help
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  Speaker 1: us digest it and interpret it and analyze it with me.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Del Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former FBI
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: agent at del Carson Law dot com. Renowned psychoanalysts, joining
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  Speaker 1: us from the La Jurisdiction, doctor Bethany Marshall, starving new
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Netflix series Bling Empire. Cheryl McCollum, Founder director of the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at Coldcase Crimes
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  Speaker 1: dot org. I've been in the trenches with her for
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: well over a decade, and I can tell you she
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: feels the same way I do about each individual piece
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  Speaker 1: of evidence. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series, Bodybags with Joe Scott
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Morgan on iHeart Podcast. But first straight out to Massa's
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: said our special guests, joining US investigative reporter with WFLA TV. Massa,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it never ends. It's like drinking out of
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  Speaker 1: a fire hydrant. Every day. I think, well, okay, that's
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: all we know for now, and within an hour we're
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: slammed with more information. The searches back on for Brian Laundry.
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  Speaker 1: You tell me now at a different entrance to Carlton Reserve.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's what you were telling mean, twenty five
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  Speaker 1: thousand acres of swamp. Then you got to think about
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  Speaker 1: this too, Massa you gotta also think about Maya Cache Reserve,
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  Speaker 1: which is adjoining Carlton Reserve. Also, so much happening right
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  Speaker 1: there in Florida. Let's go straight to my society joining
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  Speaker 1: me WFLA TV. You know, I hardly even know where
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  Speaker 1: to start, but Massa, what can you tell me? What
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  Speaker 1: have you learned about the actual crime scene that we're discussing. Okay,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: so the actual crime scene, and that is a great
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  Speaker 1: place to start. The most significant new information that we
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  Speaker 1: are learning right now. You heard it up right at
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  Speaker 1: the top. A chopper over the scene, a photojournalists, you know,
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  Speaker 1: before the scene was put on lockdown. You know, first
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  Speaker 1: on scene was able to see that Jabby Petito's remains
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: were above ground. So that's significant. It's significant that she
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: was not buried. So there's photos and video of this,
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  Speaker 1: and it has not been released to the public. Mass
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  Speaker 1: SOCIETI knows all about it, and we are learning her
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  Speaker 1: body was in open sight, as we have long conjectured,
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  Speaker 1: body out in the open. Think about it in our
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: front yard. I go out at night and I pick
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: up the basketballs and the soccer balls and what do
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: you say, badminton birdies. Everything that's been left out there
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  Speaker 1: for the day. I don't leave it out in the
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  Speaker 1: open every night. I don't want it to get wet
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  Speaker 1: or destroyed or the dog get it. Her body is
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  Speaker 1: out in the open, left there. I can't even think
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  Speaker 1: about it. You know. I took my mother at Massa
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  Speaker 1: home to make and the other day she wanted to
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  Speaker 1: see where my father is buried and see how it looked.
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  Speaker 1: And I could hardly stand it. I could hardly stand
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  Speaker 1: looking at that cemetery plot. It just broke my heart,
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  Speaker 1: just leaving her body out and out in the open. Okay,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going down a rabbit hole. Photos and videos body
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  Speaker 1: out in the open? What more do we Naamossa? So
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: we know her body was out in the open. There
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: was a pair of hiking shoes, apparently there were spotted
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  Speaker 1: on scene. We don't know if they were right next
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  Speaker 1: to her, how far away from her, if they were
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  Speaker 1: upright or not upright. It's unclear if she was covered
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  Speaker 1: by a blanket, initially by the perpetrator or by law enforcement.
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  Speaker 1: I'm unclear as to that fact. But you talk about
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  Speaker 1: how brutal it is to just leave her body out
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  Speaker 1: in the open like that, But this crime, this manual strangulation,
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  Speaker 1: this throttling that was also very up closed and personal.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum very quickly to you, I don't think that
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  Speaker 1: I would want to cover the body, but I don't
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  Speaker 1: think a trained crime scene take I wouldn't cover the body.
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  Speaker 1: I would want to cover the body out of respect
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  Speaker 1: for the victim. But I don't think a trained criminal
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: technician such as you, or really any of us on
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  Speaker 1: the panel would go up to a body which is
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  Speaker 1: evidence and cover it with a blanket. I don't think
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that they covered that body with the blanket. I think
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  Speaker 1: the killer covered that body with the blanket, because nobody
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  Speaker 1: in their right mind, that's the criminal justice system, would
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: destroy evidence by putting a blanket on top of it,
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  Speaker 1: potentially destroying evidence. And another thing, words matter, words matter, Cheryl.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: This says hiking shes were on the ground next to
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  Speaker 1: the body, so we do know where they are. They
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: are right next to the body, and that is significant
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: because if they were notched over and they were not askew,
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  Speaker 1: that tells me more about her death. Cheryl jump in,
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  Speaker 1: words do matter. If it was somebody from a chromo scene,
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  Speaker 1: they would have used a sheet, not a blanket. The
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  Speaker 1: word blanket to me means it came from that van,
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  Speaker 1: which indicates the killer knew her, they had a connection.
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  Speaker 1: The fact that that person would cover her all the
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  Speaker 1: way or part way means he's telling on himself. He
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  Speaker 1: took extra time. I don't think to try to conceal her.
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  Speaker 1: I think it was almost I'm leaving her, but I
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  Speaker 1: do still love her, and somewhat took care. We see
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  Speaker 1: it a lot, I know Joe Scott has I know
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you have Nancy. Where a killer will cover the victim's
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  Speaker 1: faith because he doesn't want them to look at them,
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  Speaker 1: because he cares about them. The fact that he would
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  Speaker 1: take boots off and place them, The fact that he
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  Speaker 1: would drag her five minutes from the van. Herbis could
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  Speaker 1: have already been off. She could have been killed when
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: she was getting ready for bad and she didn't have
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  Speaker 1: her They were next to her, which is nowhere near
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  Speaker 1: the van. So that again takes extra time. A stranger
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  Speaker 1: doesn't do that. A stranger kills you, drops you, gets ghost.
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  Speaker 1: This person took time to get this person out of
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  Speaker 1: the van, put him on the blanket. Well, you're assuming
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  Speaker 1: she was killed in the van. I am, I'm not
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  Speaker 1: I'm not assuming a darn thing. I don't know where
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  Speaker 1: she was killed, but I want to follow up on
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  Speaker 1: what you said straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall. We
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  Speaker 1: discussed this many times, as have you and I Joe
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  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Bethany, I've had one case where a daughter
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  Speaker 1: killed her mother and then the mother was naked by
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  Speaker 1: the way I guess she got out of the shower
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  Speaker 1: she was sleeping without her clothes on, and put a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: wicker trash basket from the bathroom over her head post
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  Speaker 1: mortem after the death, covered her face. I've had several
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: cases where the victim was killed out doors and the
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  Speaker 1: face was covered with leaves or twigs and branches, and
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  Speaker 1: sometimes the whole body. There are many ways to cover
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  Speaker 1: a body, and it is actually not unusual when and
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  Speaker 1: only when the killer knows the victim. What is that
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  Speaker 1: instinctual desire to cover up the body, doctor Bethany, you
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  Speaker 1: just took my word instinctual. I think that's what it is.
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  Speaker 1: If you had caught me ten years ago asked me
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  Speaker 1: this question, I would have said it was love and
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  Speaker 1: care towards the victim, some final act of decency. But
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  Speaker 1: you didn't say that. Today. Well, have you ever noticed
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that anybody who picks up a baby will jiggle it?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Even a teenager, even somebody who's never been taught how
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to care for a baby, will instinctually jiggle the baby,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: comfort the baby, kind of know what to do. It's
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  Speaker 1: in our DNA to provide certain types of care towards
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  Speaker 1: other beings. And I think that the covering of the
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  Speaker 1: body with a blanket, with leaves, the wick or basket,
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  Speaker 1: it's somewhat instinctual. It's out of their own selfishness that
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  Speaker 1: they're not doing it for the victims at all. They're
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: doing it for themselves. It's like locking the door before
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: you leave your house. You think, did I lock the door?
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  Speaker 1: Did I not? It's a final act before you leave.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Aside and Nancy, one more thing about I just want
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  Speaker 1: to say something about the hiking boots. We don't know
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  Speaker 1: that they're hers. You said worth your details matter too.
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  Speaker 1: Whose boots are they? Guys? I want to take a
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  Speaker 1: listen to that sound one more time, Todder, if you
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: could play cut three twenty three. Well, Cassel is elected
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: not to make that video public. We did show it
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to someone who had worked numerous homicides. Oh, dozens virtually
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: everard murdered that I prosecuted. I went to the crime scene.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Longtime Saltwake County prosecutor Kent Morgan came away with distinct
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: impressions from this scene. This is quick, This is not
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: sitting here for five or six hours trying to figure
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  Speaker 1: out how to conceal the crime. He also didn't notice
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: any obvious signs of a struggle on the ground. One
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  Speaker 1: are the things I've been seeing in this story is
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a history of these individuals getting into fights, and that
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: she attacked him. I don't see that here. As they
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: see is one individual who suffered the damage and no
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: evidence of injury created by her. You know, it's interesting
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: that he is still this is a Federman trial lawyer.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: He's still remembering what those cops and Moad Moab said
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: August twelve. There is evidence, prior evidence that he's heard
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: about where she was the attacker, but he says he's
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: very careful to say that's not what it looks like here. Okay,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: straight out to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, I know you're
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: dying to jump in hit me. Yeah, I gotta tell you,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I'm happy this guy was a prosecutor and everything. But
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: he's viewing these from a helicopter. I didn't know this.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: We no longer have to go to crime scenes. We
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: can assess this from a great altitude. I did not
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: ask you for sarcasm, because you know what, Joe Scott,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: this is where we're learning about the crime scene, all right.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: He can see drag marks from the sky. Is that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I don't believe it, Scott straight out to Dale Carson.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that the witness said anything about seeing
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: drag marks. But what we do know is that he
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: sees the body. It's on the ground, it's out in
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the open, maybe under a tree at best. There are
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: it's covered by a blanket, and there are boots beside it.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And I believe Dale Carson when he says it happened
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: quickly and there's no sign of a struggle. To me,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: that means the boots are still sitting up. Now. Was
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: she killed there? Was she killed in the van? I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: don't know that, but I do know these facts, and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I am making the most of them. Would you join me? Yes, absolutely,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and let me just see this. The covering with a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: blanket serves an additional purpose that we're not thinking about
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: people walking down that creek would look over, they would
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: see those boots off, and they would see somebody covered
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: by a blanket. Well, they're napping, so you'd be very quiet.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't go over there and inspect them because you
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: think it's a camp or just chilling out. So that's
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: what caused the delay. Probably many people walked that area
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and saw the blanket covered person and just didn't think
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: anything about it. I don't know about that, because this
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is dispersed camping, Massa said, I hear what Jail Carson's saying.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not discounting it. I'm disagreeing with it. This is
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: dispersed camping, which means you're not near a porta potty,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: you're not by an electricolored water hook up the way.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Very often I take our family goes r ving. We've
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: also gone dispersed camping. You're out in the middle of nowhere,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and I don't think there's going to be high christious
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: happening by the tent or the camper. Massa, Yeah, this
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: was dispersed camping, Like you said a lot of times,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: from my understanding, the campers are going to try to
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: get their own space, get away from other tamp sites,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: so it would be I think unlikely to assume that
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: there was high foot traffic in the area. But I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: will say that her body was discovered very close to
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: where this scene is, just a very short walk away.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: So we know there have been other campers in the area.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: But were they at a place where they would see
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the blanket? I think that that would be an assumption
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to make. Well. I mean, let's take at three Massa.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: We know that Red White and Bethan, who are nature enthusiasts,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: they saw Gabby's van and it was closed up. I think, Jackie,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: weren't they the ones Massa. Weren't they the ones that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: also said the van that door closed quickly or not? Yeah? Yeah,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: because one one person saw it closed, one person did not.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: My point is they didn't see it, They did not
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: see her body, and they were just within walking distance
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of her body. I mean, this is a chess game.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: You have to take the pieces and figure out your
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: next move what you were learning from your pieces, not
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: take potshots at the pieces you don't have. It's not helpful,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: waste of time. Listen to this, guys, and this is
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: something Joe Scott and Cheryl McCallum have repeatedly said, take it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Listen to our three one nine. This is Jose Carbonaro,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: w p b F. Former FBI agent Stewart Kaplan believes
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: DNA the Teton County Corners says he handed over to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: law enforcement could help take this case one step further.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: This can of course include him as being the attack
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: or being the responsible person for having caused Gabby Petito's death,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: or it could exclude him him being Brian Laundry person
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: of interest in the death of Gabby Petito. He's also
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: wanted for the unauthorized use of her credit card and
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: is still nowhere to be found today, marking one month
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: after his parents say they last saw him leave very
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: hike at the Carlton Reserve. The case getting some backlash
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: from the public as slow moving, but Kaplan thinks otherwise.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I think they have moved this investigation quite expeditiously. Every
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: procedural aspect of this case may be at some point
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: subjected to questioning or challenging and import of law and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: law enforcement only has one opportunity to do it right
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and get it right. You know, I've rarely seen public
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: officials actually address the details of the facts of an investigation,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: ongoing investigation. So I was very surprised, Cheryl McCollum when
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: we learned so much from the Tea Time County Coroner,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: doctor Brent Blue. But here you have it, here, you
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: have it, you Joe Scott deal, I've been talking about
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: this from day one. Is there d N A on
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: her body? And you're just hearing right there, he tells
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: us the Tea Time County Coroner handed over to law
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: enforcement DNA. Absolutely, no question, There is absolutely going to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: be DNA. Whoever drug her on that blanket, whoever you
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: know pulled her shirt. Why do you people keep saying
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: dragged her on the blanket? We don't know that. Let's
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: stick with what we had to get her, the killer
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: from wherever he killed her to where he left her. Right?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Can you not accept that maybe they were out looking
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: at the stars, got into a five and she died.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: But about that, because there would have been a sign
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of struggle. That ground has rocks everywhere. You would have seen,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: you know, evidence of her feet moving, and her clothes
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: would have been twisted or torn. It would have looked
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: like a fight. Remember what Joe Scott said earlier. The
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: vantage point was from aerial you can't tell from up
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in a chopper whether rocks have been disturbed. I mean,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it was on rocks. I don't
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: know that it could be on Remember, under trees, there's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: got to be some soil under a tree. So I
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: want to deal with the facts that we need. Want
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to go back to the DNA. Okay, she was grabbed, touched, placed,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: That person that killed her touched her. So I'm going
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to think that this is a secondary crime scene. I
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: really do believe that where she is left, to me
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: appears to be secondary. The way it appears that people
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: are saying things were left appear to be secondary to me.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: If that's the case, there could be DNA under her arms,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: which in fact could extract Please explain what you're saying
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: in that the Impact is a tool that we have
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that it can extract DNA off clothing, rocks, rope, broom handle.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: That is better than just swabbing with the bugle swab.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: That's basically like you always say, it's a Q tip.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: This is a machine that can you get us a
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: sample that is a thousand times better than anything a
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: bugle swab can do. Nancy I believe. I believe also
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that the DNA, the sample, this unidentified sample that we
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: know about so far, could very well have to do
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: with the fingernails. That's something I've been beating on for
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a while. They did nail scrapings and nail trimmings, and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: if there is a place to harvest this, it will
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: be beneath those nails because it will have been captured.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: You know. The nails act like a little hood, almost
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: like a little protective hood. If she's scratching him, which
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: we know has probably happened. Remember there's still images that
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: we had of him from the altercation that they had had.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I think that this is something it was a reactive event.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: She probably put her hands on him to fend him
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: off as he is trying to choke her out strangulation,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and those her nails are going to tell the tale
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: here it's protected. Whereas the rest of the body might
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: be exposed to elements, the nails provide a safe haven.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: And it's not passive DNA. This is something that was
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: scraped away, scraped away and stored beneath the nails. That's
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: going to be their best shot, Ryn Colin, where I
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: agree with Joe Scott. But where else do you believe
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: on the body we could get DNA. Possibly it's manuel
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: strangulation from the neck. Blanket, You'll get it from the blanket.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: There's a blanket had to come from somewhere and it
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: likely came from the van and it was placed over
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the body. No, this is your mind of me, Del Carson,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad you said blanket. It's reminding me of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the top Mom Casey Anthony case where the body is
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: disposed of. If we're going under Cheryl McCollum's theory that
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: this is a secondary crime scene, that she was killed
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: in the van and left here where the body is
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: disposed of, very near the location of the murder and
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Tod Mom Casey Anthony Kelley was thrown out into the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: woods and a trash bag and a blanket from the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: home about twelve fourteen houses down from the Anthony home.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Why it was convenient for the killer Tod Mom, she
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: had to do it quickly, Just as this prosecutor is saying,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: this was quick, down and dirty. Same thing here, This
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: was a convenient place next to the van, Gabby's van
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: and the blanket. The Dell Carson is highlighting is significant
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: because on it there may be DNA and significant it
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: may be from the van. So the killer killed her
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and then goes to the van and gets a van
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: blanket and covers her up. That doesn't make sense unless
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: it's Brian Laundry Doctor Bethany wanted to end Japan Dodger. Well, Nancy,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: we're talking about DNA under the fingernails. That nobody's mentioning
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: semen I mentioned it not today, Oh okay, so go ahead. Sorry. Well,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you know, love and hate our opposite sides at the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: same point. And if the primary crime scene was in
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: that van, he's not like a serial killer where he
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: was taking run a trip just so he could kill her.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: There was a build up of hostility, resentment, tension, jealousy
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: that had been going on prior to the mo App incident.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: There was simmering resentment on his part. We don't know
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: what it's towards. If it was because she was doing
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: her van life hosting. Was he jealous of all the
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: followers she had? But something happened that night that was
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: intimate before turned to hatred. I don't know that I
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: would always be quite sex with love. No, it's about power,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Nancy and I gotta tell you, they would have done
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: a rape kit on her, which would have been extensive.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: They could have collected some kind of sample. However, she's decomposing,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: so that's going to, you know, compromise things. But also
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: to Bethany's point, if there is ejaculate there, it could
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: very well be on the blanket, semon sperm. That's what
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: he's talking about. They're checking, they're checking the blanket for
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: that as well. And I got to tell you something else.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: That is an element here. When you're talking about blanket
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: covering or covering of the body, there's an element of
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: shame here too. This could go to a sexual motivation.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: If he had violated her sexually like that, it might
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: just be guilt on his part. And that's that's in
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: addition to the actual choking or the strangulation. You're making
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: me think of another case, Sharyl McCollum, Shenan Watts. Remember
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Chris Watts had sex, Oh yeah, and then he killed her.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: He had sex with her, a whole power thing, and
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: she's what eight nine months pregnant, and then he kills her.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It's not unheard of, not unheard of. In this situation,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I have to disagree though, because what I see with
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Brian Laundry is completely different. He is exhibiting more of
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: like a baby fit when he doesn't get his way,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: when he's not as popular as her, when he doesn't
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: have the money that she has. Cabby will be fully closed.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: There will be no seminal fluid. It'll be seminal fluid,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and it'll be on that blanket because it was in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the van and that's what they've been doing in the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: van for some time. So it's there and it identifies
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: the blanket coming from the van from this guy. Hey, Masa,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: what's happening where you are? Yeah, so it's actually pretty significant.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: What's happening again, we're seeing an uptick of activity at
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the twenty five thousand acre swamp that they have been
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: searching for Brian Laundry, now missing more than a month,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and pointing to the family's timeline, Massa, you just made
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: me think of something, thank you. You know how the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: parents rearrange their timeline. And I've been we've all been saying,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: how can you not know the last time you saw
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: your son alive? How can you suddenly go, oh, oh, sorry,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you know what? It was a Friday? It was Thursday.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I think because their lawyer said, listen, people,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: if you don't talk to the FBI, that's fine, you
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: can't get charged for that. But if you lie and
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: give them false information, you're up the creek, and you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: know what creek, You're up the creek without a paddle.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And then suddenly their memory is jogged and they rearrange
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: their timeline because if they had stuck with a lie,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that would be a crime. When you lie to the beds,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you might as well go ahead and hold out your
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: risk because you're going to get cuffed that. I think
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: that's why they change the timeline. You're right, deal, Carson.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Remember what parent doesn't know the last time they saw
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: their child. I mean, they go camping, they come back,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: they know what day they last saw him, and then
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: weeks in they go, oh, yeah, we got our memory jogged.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I bet they did get their memory jogged changing that timeline. Okay, sorry, Massa,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah. They The SBI apparently had spotted the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: vehicle at the launder Mustang at the laundry home on
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: the fifteenth, which is why they said it must have
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: been the thirteenth, not the fourteen. But yeah, again, we
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: are seeing an uptick of activity at the site. We
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: saw ten vehicles the canine forensics unit. We did see
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Pastill County Sheriff's Office there today their CAN nine unit,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: and that's something that I personally haven't seen before. And
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: just to tell you a little bit, it's one of
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the first agencies, the Passing County Sheriff's Office. Between the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: users knines, they have close to two dozen dogs. They
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: have all sorts of specialty dogs like bloodhounds that are
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: specifically trained to trail missing people. So they do have
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: a significant ability with K nine. So the question with
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: K nine, so the question is what have they found
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: now today? What are they looking for now? Well, we
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: have a little bit more information as the search goes on.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: According to mass Societe joining us from w FLA there
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: in Florida, we've got some more information, Tyler, if you
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: could please roll cut three twenty air friends at WP
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the F He says, now that Potito's death has been
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: ruled a homicide and the cause has been determined as
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: dring galician a suspect may already be named behind closed doors.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: That piece of information I would bet has gone into
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: grand jury. There is now a sealed indictment for the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: apprehension of the person who is responsible for the death
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: of Gabby Petito. Details surrounding possible warrants and charges, however,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: likely won't be released until an arrest is made. They
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: would tend not to want to unsteal that because I
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: think they realized absolutely there's a very good chance all
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: this has already been sent to We say secret grand jury,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: but all grand juries are secret, so to speak, so
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: that's not some mysterious thing to have a secret grand jury. Also,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: we now have the Teton County Coroner kind of backpeddling
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: trying to clarify his earlier comments. That's why you know
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: my old boss, Cheryl Uniamwells Lewis Slayton, the longest serving
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: district attorney in the country at that time, I believe
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: it was thirty seven years and for a good reason, honest,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: hard working. He told me on day one, don't speak
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: to the press, don't come up. He didn't say this,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: but I came up with a standard answer. I always said,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I fully believe a Fulton County jury will reach a
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth. Bam. That was it. There's
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: a reason you don't talk to the press. Okay, take
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a listen to our cut three one five, our friend
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Brian Enton. Doctor Blue says he's not allowed to get
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: into Gabby's specific injuries because of the ongoing FBI investigation.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: He says her body was discovered nearly a month after
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: she was killed. What sort of challenges are involved in
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: an autopsy win a body as you described yesterday, has
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: been out in the wild for three to four weeks.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And the situation where anybody is out in the outside,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: whether it's exposed to the elements and insects and animals,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: there is various forms of decomposition, and that decomposition usually
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: runs this very specific course. And also, da please run
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: three one six. This statement from the Teton County Corner
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Tuesday got so much attention. Unfortunately, this is only one
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: of many deaths around the country of people who are
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: involved in domestic violence. Some assume doctor Blue was confirming
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: laundry was involved. Today he told me that's not what
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: he was saying. Did you determine that their cause of
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: death was the result of domestic violence or was that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: just you know, comment you made in the moment? That
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: was a comment I've made in the moment, in the moment, Okay,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: that's why a lot of people on air right off
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: of OPT because they don't want to say anything in
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the moment that is completely Let's just say they shouldn't
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: have said. Okay, I believe I recognize your voice, Massa said, WFLA,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Is that you questioning? Yeah, that was me. I tried
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to you know, I was trying to get more information
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: out of him, just whatever other details that could be released,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you know, with that he told me it was a
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: comment he made in the moment. He told another reporter
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: he had no direct knowledge. He told someone else was
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: an assumption, but he told like another reporter because I
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: went back and watched everything he said to everybody. He
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: said that he believed that it had indicated domestic violence
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: because she had been on a band trip together with
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: her partner. So he kind of said a little bit
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: different phrase to every single one of us. But I
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: also asked him in another report if you could talk
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: about like because you know how he wouldn't tell us
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: about the autopsy findings, what led him to believe like
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: what Marke on her Knacker go on site tried to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: get him to talk more about that. And he talked
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: about just how typically blood flow would be cut off
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: to the brain and the other way would be that
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: there would be a crack in the wind type. Because
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I asked him, like, how do you know it's manuel,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: like did you find fingerprints? Like how did you know?
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: And that's what's his answer to me, my society, what
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: can you tell me about alleged prior domestic incident reportedly
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: committed by the coroner. So this is an interesting little tidbit.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I'll let you decide how relevant it is. But according
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: to the Jackson Hole News and Guide, a publication out
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: of Wyoming that I'm not familiar with, in nineteen ninety nine,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: there was a court case involving the Titon County corner
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: doctor Brant Blue, and apparently he was accused of shooting
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: a gun at his ex wife's car to keep her unseen.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: So that is an allegation of domestic violence at the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: guy that's now the corner and sort of talking about
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: domestic violence in this high profile case. And apparently in
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the end that's turned out to be a misdemeanor reckless
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: endangerment and he's able to have a concealed weapon and
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: so on. But that's just a little tidbit that's reported
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: from local authorities there. And I'll let you guys debate
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: how what that means. Did he shoot the gun at
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: the X or in the air to keep the X
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: from laving or did he pull the gun and not shoot.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: He's accused of shooting the gun at the ex wife
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: car to keep her, to prevent her from leaving that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: scene that was in nineteen ninety nine. Well, I can
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: tell you this. I question why it's surfacing now now,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: what motives someone may have for bringing it forward now.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: But if it's true, it's true, and that's gonna be
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: one heck of a line of cross examination when the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: coroner takes the stand. Okay, that's just another fun thing
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to think about. How are you going to tackle that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: if this thing, ever ever does get to trial, when
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: your coroner has this prior what about it? Cheryl? I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: think that's a really good reason why they had four
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: additional experts. They're going to be able to talk about
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the toxicology. Now I disagree with that. I disagree with
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that because Cheryl, the county coroner is elected in most
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of jeristications, he may not even be a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: forensic pathologist. He's a doctor, so they needed an anthropologist,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: they needed a forensic pathologists. They needed all of these experts,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: a cat scanned expert, and this expert and that an expert.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: It's just like you're going to go a foot doctor
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: for an open heart surgery. So I don't want to
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: take away from doctor Blue his credentials. I don't think
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that they had this prior shooting in mind when they
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: called in the experts go ahead. I don't either. What
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is independently of him. They have three people
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: that can walk you through the friends without any hiccups,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. And we don't normally hiccup. He
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: fired a gun at me, I think I call it
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: a little more than a hiccup. But okay, but hey,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I want to make one more point that I think
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: people need to know. When the medical examiner says he
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: had no independent knowledge of the domestic violence, I don't
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: know how that's true, because law enforcement his own site
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: for the autopsy, and they would have been talking to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the group the whole time. Jay Scott, Yeah, one of
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: my favorite, one of my favorite comments that you use
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: is you can never unring the Bell, and he did
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: not stay in his lane. As a coroner, I trained
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: corners for a living, That's what I do. And so
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: he has no knowledge relative to that he should speak
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: upon relative to an ongoing investigation relative to domestic violence.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: His job is manner and cause of death, and a
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: subset of that is identification of the deceased. Beyond that,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: there's no interest here. And so he really he really
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: ran outside of his lanes with Discassi. Well, he would
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: never testify about that in any event. It's just going
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: to be the manner of death. Now, that's it. Now
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: he is going to testify. There's every trial he's in charge,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: he's going to be compelled. He's going to be compelled
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: as a result of all unless you can get an
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: assistant medical examiner or assistant coroner. And then the defense
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: is going to say, well where's the coroner. Yeah, he
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: will be taking the stand. Okay, Bethany, I know you've
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: got a lot to say, nutshell, nutshell. Well, I'm just
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: going to say, you know, he shot at his wife's card,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: he's still shooting from the hip. How is this going
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to affect the trial? And you know, somebody who shoots
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the gun in a domestic situation is impulsive. So I
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: was just wondering, how is that impulsivity going to affect
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: how he examines the body, how he presents evidence, and
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: how he presents a trial. Don't you think you're reading
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a level too much into it? He shot a gun,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: all right, you got me over a barrel. Okay, that's bad.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: We will figure out how this is going to affect
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: a trial, if there ever is a trial, if there
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: is a grand jury, and dive. But first we gotta
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: fine Brian Laundry massa. Is there any light at the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: end of the tunnel. Well, the search we're told, you know,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: we don't always stop activity because the scene is just
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: so vast out there. But we're told of the activity
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: is going on all the time, around the clock, constantly.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And here we are, you know, nearly a month into this,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: more than a month this season missing, but nearly a
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: month of the search, and you know, there's so every
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: couple of days we see this huge uptick and we
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: get out our chopper and we're trying to figure out
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: what's going on. And that's what we're doing today. I
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: think you guys know this. But about doctor Blue, he
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: certified and emergency medicine and family medicine. He did not
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: conduct the autopsy. He just interpreted the results here And
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, hey, does sb I know
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: you're talking? Did they tell you not to talk? And
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: he said that he was independent of the SBI. But
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: he did hold off having that news conference because the
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: US Attorney asked him to hold off for one week.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: But he's kind of doing his own thing because he
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: said that he believes it's important to get out the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: right information out to the public, whatever limited information that
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: he's available to give. We wait as a search goes
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: on for Brian laundry and all of this with the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: backdrop that as we speak, Gabby's family is going to
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: bring home her remains. Can you imagine that trip? Goodbye friend,