Latest / Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela] / Are Gothtinas Having A Moment? | Capítulo 287

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Are Gothtinas Having A Moment? | Capítulo 287 · Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela]

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, this goes to show like how deep and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: far wide like culture wars can go. Like it can
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: be something like culture wars regarding music. And I think
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: reggaeton has been part of that for several decades now
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: where musicians or other artists don't take reggaeton seriously. Scholars
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: degrade reggaeton and reggaeton. It's not real music. And there's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: this type of, like, one is better than the other.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing that with, like, these culture wars, whether
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: it be, like, the emos versus punks.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Rap versus rock.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Reggaeton versus everything else, apparently.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Locatora Radio.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Hola, hola, Locamores. I'm Diosa.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm Mala.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Locatora Radio.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: A radiophonic novella.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Which is just an extra way of saying... A podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: We're so excited to be in studio today. Spooky season
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: is upon us. And we decided that we really want
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to talk about Goth Tina's.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Finally.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Finally.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Long overdue. Dying to talk about Goth Tina's. Yes.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, as you can imagine, we're talking about Gothic
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Latinas and the subculture that it is, how it's so
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: embedded in Latino culture, even Catholicism and some of our
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: favorite alt girls, gothtinas in both in media and also
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: in pop culture.
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  Speaker 3: I was just thinking about how I'm so glad that
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: there's like a new wave of gothtinas because I think
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: some of The pillars who are Goth Tina or Goth
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  Speaker 3: Tina adjacent are like problematic.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, so true.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Like our Kat Von D.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Dita Von Teese. Is she Latina?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Which one?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Dita Von Teese.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Is Dita Von Teese problematic?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Is she Latina? Is she problematic? Am I making that? No,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: it's Kat Von D.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Kat Von D is Latina and problematic. I think was
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: born in Mexico.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if she identifies as Mexican. I guess
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: by nationality, right? She's Mexican.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But she is. She's definitely like.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: problematic yeah so we but there's new ones but.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: There's new ones there's a new wave yeah thank god
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: thank goodness.
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  Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about them yes yeah all
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: of that.
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  Speaker 1: All of that um okay i want to start by
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: asking because i feel like this is a canon event
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for latinas and catholic school girls did you have a
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: goth phase yes of course tell me about the goth phase.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Uh I loved my goth face so much. But, you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: in my life, I've had a lot of like stylistic phases.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: And I want to say that I was a fakey,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: like a fakey baby goth.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I was a mall goth. Yes. A mall goth, a
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  Speaker 2: Santa Anita mall goth.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I was a free dress goth because we wore uniforms
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: at our little Catholic school. But my little friend group,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: we all together ventured into our mall goth phase because
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: we had a hot topic. We would go into the
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Hot Topic every time we went to the mall, got
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: a new Jack Skellington merch item, a new Nightmare Before
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Christmas tea, or a Happy Bunny tea, and the black
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: gummy bands. We bought black clothes, and then whenever we
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: had free dress, we would wear our Hot Topic merch,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: and whatever black items we were able to put together.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And then.
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  Speaker 3: Our goth phase also bled into like horror movies. So
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: at every sleepover, we would watch a horror movie. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: we were very into like at the time it was
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: The Ring and the Saw franchise. And, you know, they
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: were pumping out so many Saw movies that it was
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: like a different Saw movie at every sleepover.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So true.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. How about you? Did you have a goth phase?
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  Speaker 1: I did. Similar to you. It's like faux goth. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Like goth light.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Because after all... You're a Catholic school girl in a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Latino household where you're still told what to do.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And you can't wear black nail polish to school. Like
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I would try to get around it. Like I would
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: do little black polka dots on my nails. And that
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: was like my little rebellious thing. Of course, like sneaking eyeliner.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: There was one year maybe we were in the sixth
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: or seventh grade where like all the girls got in
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: trouble for like sneaking on eyeliner. because it just felt
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: like that was the thing to do. And similar to you,
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  Speaker 1: like I wasn't allowed to go into Hot Topic, but
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: we would go anyway. But like the parents couldn't, no.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So you couldn't carry a bag from Hot Topic, right?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And something that was also forbidden in my house was
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: scary movies. My dad is very much of the like,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: es cosa del diablo, right? You're summoning something, you're inviting something.
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  Speaker 1: So that was like prohibited, right? So it actually wasn't
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  Speaker 1: until maybe in the last five years that I've really
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: gotten into horror films and the genre of horror, even
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: as novels. So that's been really fun to explore. But
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: as like a little baby goth. I went through a
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: also in addition, which I feel is canon, which we're
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: going to talk about in a bit. I went through
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: a Addams Family phase.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, of course.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I was just obsessed with watching the Addams Family,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the original cast, the black and white.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: The TV show. TV show. Right.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: And that was on. I remember it being on in
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the mornings. Like 7 a.m. So like as I was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: getting ready to go to school, I would be like
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: watching the Addams Family like in the background. And it
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: was the black and white version. And it was I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: was just so obsessed with it. I loved Morticia. I
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: loved the glam of her and everything she represented. And
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: over the years, there have been different renditions. of the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Addams Family, which has been really cool to see. But
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: that was, I would say, I haven't thought about that
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: in a while, but that was part of my little
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: baby goth phase.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: That's so fun. Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: There are certain pieces of media that are absolute canon,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Addams Family, Nightmare Before Christmas, for baby goths of.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Our millennial generation.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Yes. I'm sure the young ones today are also watching.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Watching the same stuff. I wouldn't be surprised. What else
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: was there? Yeah, I feel like the eyeliner was a must. Having, like,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a really nasty liquid black cat eye. Yes. Like, you
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: had to. And it had to be, like, real sharp,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: but also real heavy. Yeah, the black nail polish on, like,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: super short nails also.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. Was big. And then.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I also feel like for me, there was also kind
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: of like a rockabilly overlap because I was always very
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: into like the aesthetics of it all. And so I
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: loved like a very rockabilly like pin curl hairstyle with
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: like a rose.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Like that was my shit. And then I also remember
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: Evanescence being such a big deal at the time.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Huge. Yes.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on. Yes. I'll still throw on some
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Evanescence if I'm feeling sad, girl.
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  Speaker 1: Wake me up inside.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Wake me up. Yeah, it's so good.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: It's so good.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I was trying to think, what else did I love?
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: My bestie, Jackie, and I, we went through a really
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: intense Taking Back Sunday phase.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And that was, I think, part of the canon and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: the lore of middle school.
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  Speaker 2: It also bled into, I think.
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  Speaker 3: I was probably leaning more towards also like an emo
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  Speaker 3: vibe than a true goth vibe.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Agreed.
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  Speaker 3: Because Green Day was also such a big deal like
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: back then.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And and who else? Oh, my God. Like my brain
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: is not working. What a beautiful wedding.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking that.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: My chemical romance. My chemical romance. Yes. Yes. So good.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: So fun.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Which leads me to one of my favorite pieces of
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: like Internet romance. like sensational lore, which is the 2008
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: emo versus punk showdown in Mexico City.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Where a bunch of punks and emos came together and
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  Speaker 3: basically like incited a riot over like defending their various subcultures.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, because the punks did not take the emos seriously.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So there was like this poser aspect of it all.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of great reporting about this.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Radio Ambulante did an episode about this a couple years ago.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And Daniel Hernandez, second time we're talking about him on
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the show, by the way.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Hi, Daniel. Again, we love you.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Daniel Hernandez was the expert, the commentator in that episode
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of Radio Ambulante. And he's Daniel Hernandez has also written
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: about it because he was there. Of course, he was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: living there while this happened and he heard about it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: And at first it was just reading about this. He
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: thought it was kind of funny. But then he went
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and like took it seriously to see like, wait, what's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: going on? And then he reported about it.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Really wild stuff.
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  Speaker 3: But it also is so interesting about how committed people
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: are to this lifestyle and this culture. And this is
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: also why I was very clear at the top of
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the episode.
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  Speaker 2: I was like a fakey little... I was a mall goth.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goth-lite. Like, not committed to... the actual
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: subculture of it because we were all these other things
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: at the same time and I think that what we've
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: seen women with any subculture is that there's a real
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: commitment to it like you're a part of it you're
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: embedded in it it's your lifestyle it's who you are
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: and every day you're like you're about this.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah and the emo versus punk war of 2008 reminds
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: me Of a like rap versus rock like showdown that
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: took place in my eighth grade class at our confirmation retreat.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Like during our like recess at this all day confirmation retreat.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know how it started, but suddenly the class
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: was divided and shouting at each other from across the lawn.
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  Speaker 2: Rock sucks. Rap sucks. And it was like the division.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: of like the kids who liked hip-hop and the kids who.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Liked rock and who were probably listening to emo music
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: too It was so funny, but it got very heated.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: And then people started throwing water bottles at each other
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: and the faculty had to come in and like shut
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: it down. And so even in our little like Catholic
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: school setting, people were like ready to come, ready to
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: throw hands over the music that they like.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, this goes to show, like, how deep and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: far wide, like, culture wars can go. Like, it can
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: be something, you know, like, top of mind, thinking about, like,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: gender and sexuality and how that has become this, like— weird, like,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: culture war in the U.S. right now. But then we have, like,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: culture wars regarding music. And I think reggaeton has been
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: part of that for several decades now, where there are
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: folks who, I mean, it's a lot of, like, xenophobia and, like,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: coded racism, right? Where they don't take musicians or other
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: artists don't take reggaeton seriously. Scholars degrade reggaeton. And It's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: not real music. And there's this type of, like, one
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: is better than the other. And we're seeing that with, like,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: these culture wars, whether it be, like, the emos versus punks.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Rap versus rock. Yeah. Reggaeton versus everything else, apparently.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really interesting.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: It also reminds me of Beyonce performing at the Country Music.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Awards with the Dixie Chicks.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: And how that Country Music Award audience, save a few,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: but they were not having it.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: She was incredible, by the way.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Also, so calculated to bring out the Dixie Chicks.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: You know, who now actually do not go by the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Dixie Chicks.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: They're just the chicks.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: The chicks.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because of the association with Dixie. Yes.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And they were very anti-Bush.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Back in the day.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And they were.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Blacklisted, you know, for their outspokenness about being anti-war, anti-Bush.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And at that time, like you weren't, as an artist,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: you weren't criticizing the president in that way.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And so she, Beyonce, really knew what she was doing
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: when bringing them out. And it was such a good performance.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: One of my favorite of her live performances, like I'll
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: go back and watch that and rewatch it because she's
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: so beautiful, first of all, and the vocals are incredible.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: And, like, the musicians that she has up there who
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: are all dancing.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Like, it was just a great show.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: It is a great— it was a really great show at
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the Country Music Awards. And you can— it was one of
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: those moments where, even through the screen, you could feel,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: you could see— the tension.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: People were angry.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: How can this black woman who's not even quote a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: country singer come and perform on our stage at the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: biggest award show of our genre?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: And then if I recall, they had to remove her
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: performance like from the website, from the CMA website, because
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: there was so much hate speech.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: And derogatory comments aimed at her. But she's somebody else
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: who's always, uh, genre-bended and dipped in and out of
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: genre and reclaimed genre. So I find it very interesting
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: when super fans of these musical types and musical genres,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: clash with other people without seeing the shared roots and
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: the shared origins of all this music. Because it's like
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: you guys are punks and emos. You're just branches of
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the same tree.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And it's just fascinating because there's like such a commitment
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: to their very specific lane that it's almost like, yeah,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: but you're not seeing how you guys like kind of
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: exist along the same timeline.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: You know? And then the same thing with, like, country
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: music and, like, all those people.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Being— Their racism won't let them see that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's like, you guys love this genre so much, but
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: you actually don't love the genre enough to see the
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: origins of the genre.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And, like, have appreciation for where it comes from.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: It's just interesting to me where it's like, you're a
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: super fan, but are you?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, I did not think this was going to go
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: this deep, honestly, but here we are. I think it
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: speaks to a larger— like question of when people talk
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: about authenticity. And I think that you see that with
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: all facets of culture, like food, like people will defend something,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: even a recipe online. Well, that's not authentic enough. That's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: not how my mom makes it. That's not how so-and-so
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: makes it. That's not authentic enough to, let's just say
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Mexican cuisine.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And there's like this defense of it. And then with
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: with emos and punks, it's like there's this how committed
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: are you to authenticity? And I think that the the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: question of authenticity is really at the root of a
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: lot of these culture wars, at least in regards to
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: like music, food, style, even, you know, how authentic is
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: it really?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Or like.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Maybe even wanting to forget like where it came from
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: and just have it be what it is in front
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: of you in.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Your hands, you know, because.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, Locamores. We'll be right back.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Even like I was thinking about, you know, I also
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: back in the day, I was very into like, like
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the rockabilly stuff, but rockabilly music is coming from very
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: clearly and specifically like An Elvis, Buddy Holly revival. But
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: as we all know, Elvis and Buddy Holly were like
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: appropriating from like a little Richard, you know, and like
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Big Mama Thornton and these black artists. And if you
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: like love the music, then that means that probably you've
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: done some study and research that. Because when you listen
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: to one artist, it leads you to listen to another artist,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: to another artist, to another artist.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: It takes you down the rabbit hole.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: So you really sort of have to shut yourself off
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: and like put blinders up and like ignore the musical
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: route to not acknowledge it. Because especially with the Internet
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: and with the algorithm and with like suggestions, if you're
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: listening to this, you might like this. It's going to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: lead you there. To like the origins and where it
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: came from. So there's a very willful ignorance, I think,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: to like stick to this very current like.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Mold of authenticity when it comes to music.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: It's like a rigidity and a refusal to cast a
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: wider net, be more inclusive, look at historical facts even.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting. You have to be willfully ignorant.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Which I think just to bring it back to the
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: gothtinas of it, I think in popular culture and I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: think maybe even just the zeitgeist when we think of
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: gothic the subculture that is gothic people um it's a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: very specific archetype it's like usually white yeah and so
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: when we have someone like jenna ortega who is very
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: much serving like goth tina on the red carpets especially
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: given her previous films there is some type of like
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: pushback and I was reading something in Allure about her
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: makeup artist who was saying like instead of going like
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: shades of white Right. Like instead of go not shades
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of white, instead of doing like a shade of white
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: or going like significantly lighter, she picked like the lightest
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: part of her face and like match the rest. So
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: instead of doing like full white goth makeup, it's like,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: let me have it be like a little bit lighter,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: matching it to the lightest part of her face so
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that she's still who she is.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She wasn't going clown white.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: With it.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It's a more subtle glam.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Goth glam.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Soft goth.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: It's a soft goth.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Which I love.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Which I love. And I've even seen online these.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Women who are gothic and how they have like different
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: levels of it. I saw randomly on my For You
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: page on TikTok, I saw this woman who was taking
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: her daughter, her young daughter to the pediatrician. So she's like, okay,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: let me take off all my goth makeup, like all
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the white. You saw that? All the white makeup.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: All, like, the heavy black eye makeup. And then she did, like,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a very subtle look instead. But it was still very
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: much true to the goth look.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's, like, unmistakable that she's a goth.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You're still going to see it. I, um....
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Whenever I see those like makeover shows, I always get
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: so sad when you have like a very deeply committed
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: goth with their full goth glam and they're like totally undone,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: you know, and they're made to look very natural. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: they look beautiful because they're beautiful, you know, underneath it all. But.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: It also like it's like, oh, but she looked so cool.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: She looks so cool.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: And she like clearly has been working on this look
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: for a really long time.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Because you can't just wake up one day and decide
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do a full goth glam today. Like
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: you really have to like have the makeup. You really
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: have to have the haircut like your eyebrows have to
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: be done or you need to like know like. it
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: takes a lot of work to develop that style and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: to have the tools to put it all together. So
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: then when I see somebody like that, who's walking in
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and they're like head to toe, they've nailed their goth look.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, respect. You look dope because you can really
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: fuck that up.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You know? So then when I see them.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Like giving them their, their makeover and they're like de-gothing
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: them and then they, you know, they just look like
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: regular girls.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: De-gothing them is hilarious.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And they just look like regular girls. I'm like, no.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: She was she looked so cool.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Bring back the goth.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Let her be.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Which I think takes us back to this resurgence. Right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, do you think that the resurgence is also... Well,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: there's two things that I'm thinking. One, is it maybe
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: a pushback to how like conservative things have become in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: terms of style and fashion? Do you think more people
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: are embracing like even if it's a soft goth look
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: slash are the Latinas who are doing like horror and
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: maybe have more of a goth, soft goth style? Are
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: they also maybe creating their own lane for like Latina representation?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Interesting. I think it's a number of things.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I think that we are in a continuous I think
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: right now we're in like an overall pushback against the
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: clean girl aesthetic. You know, I think that like fashion wise,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: the pendulum swings just like it does with politics. And
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I think that like the clean girl era had a
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: stranglehold on us. And I think that now the girls
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: are experimenting across the board with color and with style.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: So I think like a goth Tina resurgence is like
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: in alignment with that. Like, let's be bold and put
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: on like a very intentional look that's standing out. But
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I also think that like wearing black is just very
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: chic and timeless yeah and so you can also do
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: something that's just a very strong chic look without like
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: trying too hard you know i mean it's hard but
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: like it's clean it's clean it's sleek but it's not
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: clean girl you know yeah so i don't know i
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: think that that's part of it i also feel like
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: There's also, like, we've been in, like, a tropicoqueta, like,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: era also with Karol G, where things are very, like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: luxe and glam and colorful and, like, tropical. And I
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: think that it's also fun and cool to kind of do, like,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: a tropigoth.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Even if you're not in Miami. Yeah. You know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and blend it in.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: That's a real commitment. I think the Goth Tina is
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: in the warm weather.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: That is a real commitment to the look, the culture,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the aesthetic of it. Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: What do you think is ushering in the Goth Tina revival?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I do think that there has been a significant
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: wave of And wave even feels like a big word
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: because it's like five. But because representation for Latinas in
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: film and television has been, you know, continues to kind
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of get a little bit better, but it's still really
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: small in the grand scheme. I have noticed over the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: last few years, there have been, you know, these incredible
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Latina actresses who are starring in like horror and drama.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: they're doing that genre of film, and which I think
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: also lends itself to, you know, when we think about
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Latino representation, and I think we're, as a community, we're
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: at the point where, okay, it doesn't have to be
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: a story about, you know, a quote Latino struggle. It
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: can just be a film where the cast is all Latino, right?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily about their identity. And so I
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: think with these actresses in particular, and the ones that
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of are, of course, like Jenna Ortega, Melissa Barrera,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Camila Morrone, and the like newly like rising to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: top Indy Navarrete. And I think that their characters are
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: not necessarily like these, like their Latinidad is not centered
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to the characters. They're just Latina actresses in these roles.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: You know, and they're big roles. They're like mainstream roles.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: They're stars. And so I think that that's also part
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: of maybe this rise or bigger representation of like alt Latinas,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: goth Latinas, Latinas in horror. There seems like an overlap
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: in that way for me.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: It's about them versus, you know, the demon, you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: whatever is the The horrifying threat within the story.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: It's not like them versus the immigration system, you know?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Which is also a demon and horrible. Yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: But that's the beauty of horror is that you bring
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: in like a make-believe monster and it can be symbolic
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: of anything.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Yes. It's, you use your imagination to imagine like what
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: this monster in this movie is. could be symbolizing in
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: the outside world. And it allows you to transport yourself
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: into a different sort of universe where, you know, You
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: can take like real life fears and kind of transmute them.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: And instead of putting your fears like on a person
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: like Donald Trump, you put your fear on to like
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: a creature from a lagoon.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: You know, but it's it's you know, it's it's tapping
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: into the same like.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: That we're experiencing in real life. But I think this
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: is why Latinos love horror so much. Famously, Latinos are
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: big horror fans, go to the movies, buy tickets, like
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: really enjoy horror films.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons why, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: like I was just watching. Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: This is kind of I guess I guess I kind
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: of place this into the category of horror, even though
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's marketed that way.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: But the the drama starring Zendaya.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I just watched that a couple of weeks ago.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It's so good. Yeah.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: And it's not really like a straight on the nose
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: horror film. But I'm watching this and I'm like, this
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: is a classic horror. like monster versus villager storyline. Like
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: this is Frankenstein. Like this is like a scapegoat storyline
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: that you see over and over in horror films where
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: like this person has been identified as a monster and
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: everyone around her is like holding pitchforks.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, it's a crucify her, crucify her.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Who also done pretty horrible things.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Mind you. Exactly. It's very biblical. It's like, you know.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Cast the last stone. Yeah. If you are without sin
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: type thing. Yeah.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I love when you drop scripture like in our episodes randomly.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Well, everything, everything, all the stories that we watch are
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: like are coming from the Bible.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: It's an original text. Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: And then we just like make variations of the same
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: story over and over again. And so I think that's
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: why horror also speaks to Latinos. It's like I think
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: that we. It's tapping into those ancient stories that we
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: have embedded in us, but just with new characters and
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: new threats and new monsters.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. It's also the way the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: horror as a genre can take these monsters. whether like spiritual, demonic,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: or literal monster. And it can be an allegory, right,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: for various things, whether it's systemic, whether it's political, gender-based violence. There's...
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: The way that the genre can really make these allegories
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and it just it takes, you know, you the viewer
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to connect those dots. And I think I agree like
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that's also one of the reasons I think that horror
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: as a genre really resonates with women and. I think
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: our community in general. Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: And then there's something about like these Latina starlets like
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: tapping in to like horror or goth, what have you.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: I think in some ways it allows them also to escape.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: whatever like sexy Latina expectation there might be yeah you
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: know of course there's still sexiness and like sex and
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: nudity in these things in horror films and like in
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: the goth world like you can still be very sexy
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: but I think it's somehow also like for them in
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: particular is like shielding them from having to be like
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: sex symbols.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yes yeah it is in some way feels like I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: don't know if the polar opposite, but it does feel
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a response to the spicy Latina trope and having that
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: be the characters who are available for Latina actresses. And instead,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: it's like we have these Latinas Latina characters or characters
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: who are, you know, strong, they're fighting back, they're sexy,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: they're hot, but their sexiness is not a part of
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the character. It's just, oh, wow, these women are also gorgeous.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: So, you know, they're not being marketed the way like
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Sofia Vergara is marketed, you know, different. And the interviews
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: are not like a Sofia Vergara interview. They're sort of
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: able to talk about like, let's talk about the how
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: scary this film is, you know, and like bringing this
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: scary element to life. Like, I think that automatically shifts
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the conversation in so many ways.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: What's interesting too is, and I've seen more people talk
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: about this, more Latina actresses in particular, comedians, artists talk about,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you know, okay, why am I the only one being
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: asked about like race and ethnicity and culture? Like ask
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: me about craft. And with Indy Navarrete, who starred in Obsession,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: played the incredible Nikki, She I've noticed in the interviews
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that I've seen, you know, people are asking her about craft.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: They're asking, like, how did you create these faces? Like,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: tell us about the face acting. And I think that
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: has been really interesting to see is that the focal
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: point is not like, oh, Latina representation. It's like, tell
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: me about the craft. Tell me about the process of
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: you creating this character. Similarly, or not similarly, actually, alternatively,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I've also seen the classic. Don't go anywhere, Locamores.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Young woman. Young woman. Who's also talented and also beautiful
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: rise to the top. And now there's like a ton
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of hatred. Oh, now people hate her.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Classic. Classic. Of course. Yes.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: And I don't get it. And I honestly have not
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: been online enough in the last several months to really
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: connect the dots as to like why now people are
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: mad at her.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: But I've been hearing people. I've seen people talk about
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: her as like a pick me. And I don't I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: don't get that. I don't even care to connect those dots.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: But to me, it's just like, oh, yes, this is classic.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: She rose to the top. She's been she was an
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: indie actress, was now cast in X-Men as Rogue. People
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: are upset. How dare she like have this quote overnight success.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: So now we hate her. Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: What were we just talking about with villagers with pitchforks?
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, before you hate like a random actress that
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: you will never meet.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Ask yourself, are you a villager with a pitchfork? Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: This is a good litmus test. Are you a villager
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: with a pitchfork?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: And is that really who you want to be? Yes.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, how cliche. So cliche.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: So cliche. And honestly, say it to my face is
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: how I've been feeling lately. Like everyone is so quick.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: to type things via social media they're quick with the
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: fingers but then actually like okay are you going to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: talk to me that way in real life can we
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: actually have a conversation and disagree in a constructive way
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: yeah or like am i just an evil terrible person.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah save yourself the carpal tunnel and pull up And
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: let's fight.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Let's dialogue. Let's fight with our words. Oh, not fight,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: not fight. Fighting is for ugly bitches. I maintain.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: No.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's ridiculous.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: It's so annoying. But it also is a sign that
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: she is truly a star.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: If they don't hate you, like, are you even a celebrity?
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is true. We should internalize some of that
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit, actually.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Because I was, like, you know, talking to my partner
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: about some of, like, recent comments that we've gotten.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Because it's on... It's on very far extremes, right? I
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: think with us, it's like, oh, my God, like, if
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: we are... Like, for example, we posted clips from interviews
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: with Nithya Raman.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: A council member and candidate for L.A. 's mayor.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: For mayor.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So....
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Those comments are like super racist against South Asian people,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: are like super xenophobic.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Against street vendors.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Against, yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Because the question, the clips are about street vending.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Super classist, like racist, like a lot of derogatory language.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Very far right, conservative. From people who appear to be like...
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: both white and Latino. Like, it's kind of a mix.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: There are people of color commenting in racist and derogatory
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: ways about street vendors and Nithya Raman running for mayor.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: On the other side of things, we also get like
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: basically commentary that like we're not leftist enough.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: And it's like in the same week.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It's whiplash.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: It's whiplash.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It's emotional whiplash.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: And so I'm like talking about this and like showing
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: him some of the comments. And he's like, well, how
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: does it feel to know that people like care this
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: much about what you post or who you talk to,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: because for anybody to care this much and to take
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: time out of their day is like actually very indicative
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: of something.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a really nice reframe. That's like, that's calming.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: That's calming.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: It's like, Oh, actually it could be that nobody cares
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Right. And nobody pays attention.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: It. Yeah. And I think also too, with the current
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: nature of the internet, I was looking at some of
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: the comments that, And I was looking at the profiles
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and I thought, these are bots.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Truly also that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Am I also going to be hitting my head or
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: feeling anxious about the fact that it's a bot? It's
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: not even a real community member or a person who
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: can engage in dialogue with me.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: It's a bot. It's a bot.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And some of them, yes, are real people. And then
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: there are others where I'm thinking, no, I'm pretty sure
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: this is a bot. And that's also enraging. You know, where,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you know, social media and how we promote our work
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and our interviews and the things that we do has
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: been core to the podcast. And we're in this very
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: weird time where, one, it could be real people saying
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: terrible things or it could be a bot. And you
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: just have to, I guess, discern and decide what are
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you going to give your energy to. Yeah.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And on the other side— If it's not a bot,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: sometimes I'll click on a profile and see like, oh,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: you're trying to grow your own platform. You have your
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: own project and it's not doing well.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: That's very interesting.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Because that's its own strategy is one, rage baiting. And
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: then two, fighting with an account who has a bigger
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: platform or a bigger following. And then you gain your
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: own audience that way.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: We've seen that since the Twitter days.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Good luck with your platform.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. There are real people on the other side of this, y'all.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: And I think we're, I think. I hope that with
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: our listeners who have— are there new listeners who have been
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: listening long enough? Know that we do things with the
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: best intentions.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And we do things with, like, the greater good in mind.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: If we mess up, we mess up. But it's never
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: out of malice. It's never out of wanting to be
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: terrible or horrible or problematic, what have you. And I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: would think with, like, 11 seasons, 200 episodes plus under
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: our belt— that that would be really obvious and clear.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: But we know also that the nature of social media
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and clip culture is that sometimes people are only going
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: to engage with the one thing that they see, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that tells them the whole story, when we know that
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: that's not the whole story.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: And or to take it back to like an actress,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: like Indy Navarrete, it's like, bruh, for her to work
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: on this relatively low budget horror film, And to have
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: that film blow up, make her a household name, and
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: now she's being cast as Rogue in an X-Men movie,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: that is a dream for a young actress trying to
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: make a name for herself in Hollywood.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: That is a success story. That is something to be celebrated.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: But the fact that anybody can go and like now
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: put a negative spin on it and turn it into
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: like a character flaw of hers, of her being a
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: pick me, which means like what exactly?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: She wants to be chosen. Well, yeah, that's the field
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: that she's in. The whole thing is getting chosen for
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: a part that leads to getting chosen for another part
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: that's bigger and better.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: She's also like 20 something. We all do and say
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: stupid shit in our early 20s.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: We do and say stupid shit our whole lives yes
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: yes like it really never stops true yeah you know
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: it just transforms it just evolves but yeah there's this
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: idea that like and it's like again so cliche like
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: okay somebody started small and that's taking them to the
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: next level we should be happy about that we should
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: be celebrating that isn't that what we're all trying to
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: do you know and But then it allows for this
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: crabs in a bucket argument, you know? And then it
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: allows for people to then turn around and say, Oh,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: like Latinos tear each other down. Latinos don't want to
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: see each other succeed. I don't necessarily like proliferate that POV.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Like that's not something I say. But then when you
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: see it happening, it makes it easier for people to label.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Us that way.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: It makes it easier to affirm that that's true.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. I also think, and this is,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: we don't have to dive too into this, but I
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: think also I've seen... Online, you know, going back to
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: questions of authenticity, like, you know, how Latina is she? Right.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I think there are times where she has said her
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: name like Navarrete. Versus Navarrete. And oh, God, God forbid
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that be like a talking point as well.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: And I think if I I think that she's third gen.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you know, she would. And that's fine.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's again, these like constant like litmus
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: test or just. like hypercritical ways that we, I think,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: interact with girls and women, especially online. Yeah.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Leave the girls alone.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Leave the girls alone.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Like, let us do our work. Let us do our thing.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: If you must engage, thank you, I guess, because we
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: need the numbers. We need the metrics. Every comment helps.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Truly. I mean, it really— I mean, what can I say? Right.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Bad press is good press.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, so even for her— and for her, for someone
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: like a Sidney Sweeney, you know, whether it's rage or praise,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: it's attention.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: And in the attention economy, good, bad, ugly, it kind
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: of doesn't matter, you know? And this is why in—
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: In past seasons and past episodes, I think something that
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: we've talked about is like, if you hate it, honestly,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: leave it alone.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Because the more you feed it, the bigger it's going
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to get. You know, I think that people like. basically
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: hate commented, hate commented, you know, Jenny six, nine into celebrity.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: You know, and then like the people that are in
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: alignment with you that you claim to love, you give
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: them dust and then they.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Go nowhere, you know? So like, if you hate it,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: then let it die. Leave it alone.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Like stop feeding it. But like, I don't know, we
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: can't help ourselves.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: No, I, I was thinking, I was talking about this
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: with someone the other day, you know, there have been
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: times where I've been upset by something someone's posted, disagreed
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: really strongly, I am not there in the comment section
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: because for what? For what? There was even recently, there
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: was this feminist account that I follow and they're Latin
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: American based and their content is in Spanish. I want
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: to say it's called Hacarandas something. And they actually did
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: a post about, they made a video about, oh my God,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I'm forgetting her name, but the really racist xenophobic colombian
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: uh woman who's in texas and she's running for office
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: i don't know and she's horrible she's a rage baiter
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: like she's trying to like try she's using like hatred
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: as a way to like platform herself and like get
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: into like the mega sphere And there was this video
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: talking about her. And, you know, when there are people
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: like that, the best thing to do is don't engage.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: And I very much affirmed in my comment, like I'm
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: agreeing with the commentator with the video. And I'm like, yeah,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: lo mejor que podemos hacer es ignorarla. Well, OK, here
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: are people now commenting who agree with me, but are
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: saying that, oh, that's not enough. You have to block her.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: You have to this. You have to. OK, well, blocking
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: is one one time. And then what? So you ignore her.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: You ignore bad actors. We haven't learned anything. We have
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: to not platform the bad actors. We have to ignore them.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: The more we feed them, the more we cover it.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: The bigger they get.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: And like social media metrics go a long, long way
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: in launching somebody into stardom.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Even if it's 15 minutes, even if it's their own
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: 15 minutes and even if it's just online, it's something.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: You know, I think that it all goes back to
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: these horror narratives. Like if you pay attention to the monster,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: if you like give it time, if you give it energy,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: then it empowers the monster.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: It's a horror film. It's a horror script. Everything we're
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: living is a horror script.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: And we persevere anyway. The horrors persist, but so do we.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: But so do we, honey. So do we. We must.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: We must.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: We must.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for listening to another capítulo
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: of Locatora Radio. We'll catch you next time.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Besitos.