Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / “Pet” dogs found gnawing rib-bone of gorgeous young owner, Plus: Nude photos of patient taken in surgery

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“Pet” dogs found gnawing rib-bone of gorgeous young owner, Plus: Nude photos of patient taken in surgery · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:09
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. The death of a woman who
0:12
Speaker 1: deputies and Goochlans say was mauled by her own dogs.
0:15
Speaker 1: All I heard was, don't calm down here, it's bad.
0:18
Speaker 1: There were various artists of clothing underclothing scattered about the
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Speaker 1: area not far from the body, and it's torn into
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Speaker 1: small pieces. There were matches of blood or out in
0:28
Speaker 1: the cold in the the kennel. And I'm not saying
0:32
Speaker 1: that the family was neglectful, and they were kept outside
0:37
Speaker 1: and they previously had been inside dogs. A gorgeous twenty
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Speaker 1: two year old Virginia woman found dead, controversy swirling around
0:50
Speaker 1: her death. The cause of death at first unbelievable. As
0:56
Speaker 1: it turns out, police insist she was chewed to death
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Speaker 1: by her own pit bulls. Now, there was a public
1:09
Speaker 1: outcry saying it couldn't possibly have been her beloved pit bulls.
1:14
Speaker 1: And finally police release another fact which really shut down
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Speaker 1: the controversy. They said, oh, yes, it was because we
1:24
Speaker 1: found one of the dogs chewing her rib bone. Yeah.
1:29
Speaker 1: I think that pretty much settles it with me. Crime
1:32
Speaker 1: Stories contributing reporter Scott Kimbler. Just got Morgan, forensics expert
1:38
Speaker 1: and Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University, and joining me
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Speaker 1: special guest Doctor Gray Stafford, a zoologist, educator, animal trainer
1:49
Speaker 1: currently at Grand Canyon University, and Gray and I Dr
1:54
Speaker 1: Gray Stafford, excuse me, were brought together by none other
1:57
Speaker 1: than Jodi Arius. Now I'll save that story for another time. Um,
2:03
Speaker 1: the sex siren turned to kill her. I want to
2:06
Speaker 1: go first though, to Scott Kimbler joining us, It's hard
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Speaker 1: for me to believe that pet dogs would turn on
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Speaker 1: this gorgeous young girl and and kill her as she's
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Speaker 1: out giving them a walk. Let's start Scott Kimbler with
2:19
Speaker 1: how her body was found. Well, her body was found
2:23
Speaker 1: near her father's home. She had been taking the dogs
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Speaker 1: for a walk and she'd been missing for some time
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Speaker 1: and as the father went looking for he found her
2:32
Speaker 1: near a walking trail actually being guarded by the dogs,
2:36
Speaker 1: and her body was a badly dismembered along this walking trail.
2:40
Speaker 1: To just got Morgan joining us and Dr Gray Stafford.
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Speaker 1: What I have learned is that the Virginia woman Bethany
2:48
Speaker 1: Lynn steve Is, just twenty two, was found dead in
2:51
Speaker 1: a heavily wooded area. Her father is the one who
2:56
Speaker 1: found her body. And when he found the body of
3:00
Speaker 1: his daughter, and I can't imagine that horror of finding
3:04
Speaker 1: your daughter's body. He said her body was being aggressively
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Speaker 1: guarded by her to pet pit bulls. Now there's a
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Speaker 1: gooch Lend County Sheriff James Agney, who says it was
3:21
Speaker 1: one of the most horrific crime scenes, horrific scenes he
3:25
Speaker 1: had ever seen at first. Dr Gray Stafford, who I
3:31
Speaker 1: met first at Wildlife World Zoo I believe was the
3:34
Speaker 1: name of it out in Arizona during the Jodi Arias trial.
3:38
Speaker 1: We spent a lot of time together, Dr Gray Stafford
3:42
Speaker 1: when you first heard that, and I treasure every minute.
3:45
Speaker 1: And I've still got photos of you in my scrap
3:48
Speaker 1: book with me and you and the twins and all
3:51
Speaker 1: sorts of exotic animals. Exotic to me anyway, who grew
3:56
Speaker 1: up on a dirt road outside of making Georgia. But Gray,
4:00
Speaker 1: you know I would not let my children around in
4:02
Speaker 1: any kind of an wild animal at all if you
4:05
Speaker 1: hadn't been there, Okay, So I truly trust you when
4:09
Speaker 1: you first heard this story about Bethany's body being found
4:13
Speaker 1: in a wooded area being guarded by her dogs. I
4:17
Speaker 1: thought someone else had killed her and they were the
4:19
Speaker 1: ones guarding her. Yeah, I think that certainly makes for
4:23
Speaker 1: a better story, right. But in this case, it appears
4:27
Speaker 1: that the dogs were, you know, attacking her and consuming her.
4:31
Speaker 1: And it certainly in writes a lot of questions as
4:35
Speaker 1: to what the condition those dogs were in prior to
4:37
Speaker 1: this very tragic event occurring. So what do we know
4:41
Speaker 1: about that? Scott Kimbler, Crime Stories contributing investigative reporter. What
4:46
Speaker 1: condition was her body in? Her condition was? Her body
4:51
Speaker 1: was in very bad condition. It was considered to be
4:53
Speaker 1: a dismembered and the police describe it as a very
4:58
Speaker 1: very gritly scene. Two just got Morgan forensics expert. How
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Speaker 1: can they determine that the dogs, her pet pit bulls
5:09
Speaker 1: were responsible? It's it's very specific, isn't it, Nancy? What
5:14
Speaker 1: we're looking for? Uh, we need to keep two terms
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Speaker 1: in mind. That term is anti mortem and post mortem.
5:21
Speaker 1: The anti mortem injuries. One of the injuries they're describing,
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Speaker 1: they're actually describing as defensive injuries on her arms, which
5:29
Speaker 1: will see in any number of different types of attacks.
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Speaker 1: Do they marry up with the injuries that could be
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Speaker 1: sustained by these types of animals. And then secondly, we
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Speaker 1: have to try to determine if these injuries are post mortem,
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Speaker 1: which means after death. And that's the key here. What
5:48
Speaker 1: is um what's critical here is to determine what exactly
5:53
Speaker 1: is the manner and cause of death. I think that
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Speaker 1: a lot of people uh, you know, uh parenting what
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Speaker 1: uh what's the doctor said a moment ago about guarding
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Speaker 1: guarding the remains. That's that's that makes everybody feel all
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Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy as much as they can in a
6:11
Speaker 1: circumstance like this. But the reality is are they protecting
6:15
Speaker 1: a food source as opposed to their master. What we
6:19
Speaker 1: know also is that police responded. The shriff responded to
6:25
Speaker 1: an outcry of animal rights activists that said these dogs
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Speaker 1: couldn't possibly have killed her because she took such good
6:31
Speaker 1: care of them. She was found dead in a quote
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Speaker 1: grizzly seen two days after she was lasting heading out
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Speaker 1: to walk her dogs near her gooch Land, Virginia home.
6:44
Speaker 1: Friends insisted her beloved pets would never have killed her,
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Speaker 1: claiming the dogs would quote kill you with kisses and
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Speaker 1: suggesting instead that Bethany was murdered Dr Gray Stafford. How
6:57
Speaker 1: can animal have such different personalities? I mean, the friends
7:04
Speaker 1: were shocked, right that, you know, Nancy, that's a great question.
7:09
Speaker 1: There's a phenomena called displaced aggression, and humans experience it,
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Speaker 1: and certainly animals do as well. And what I mean
7:16
Speaker 1: by that is the animals might have been loving, carrying
7:20
Speaker 1: pets most of the time, but there may have been
7:22
Speaker 1: some triggering event in that in that walk or in
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Speaker 1: their experience that set them off, that that caused them
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Speaker 1: to be aggressive that had nothing to do with with
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Speaker 1: the victim herself. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened,
7:34
Speaker 1: but it's certainly a very common experience where animals quote
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Speaker 1: unquote can fly off the handle, uh in a situation
7:42
Speaker 1: that is that they're not prepared for that. You wouldn't
7:44
Speaker 1: normally see them behaving that way. So I'm not surprised
7:48
Speaker 1: that you can see this kind of shocking behavior from
7:52
Speaker 1: any creature. Um. Think about the last time you snap
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Speaker 1: at somebody because you were worried about some issue and
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Speaker 1: that person just happened to be in the wrong place
8:00
Speaker 1: at the wrong time. Again, Friends insists the pets, her
8:04
Speaker 1: beloved pets would never have killed her, but instead would
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Speaker 1: kill you with kisses. But on the following Monday, the
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Speaker 1: Share of James Agney ruled out murder, describing the scene
8:15
Speaker 1: he and his officers found listen. I observed, as well
8:19
Speaker 1: as four of other deputy seraph observed the dogs eating
8:24
Speaker 1: the rib cage on the body, and so they became
8:28
Speaker 1: more isolated. Were the only contact that they had was
8:33
Speaker 1: with each other, and it was on a and and
8:37
Speaker 1: less and less human contact. There were various artists of
8:40
Speaker 1: clothing underclothing scattered about the area, not far from the
8:44
Speaker 1: body and torn into small pieces. There were patches of blood.
8:48
Speaker 1: The victim had defensive boons on her hands and arms,
8:51
Speaker 1: trying to keep the dogs away from her, which would
8:53
Speaker 1: be consistent with being attacked whys she was still alive.
8:56
Speaker 1: It appears that the first traumatic injury to her was
8:59
Speaker 1: to her throat and face area. There were no strangulation marks.
9:05
Speaker 1: The victim had puncture wounds in the skull and this
9:09
Speaker 1: was not a homicide. As you hear from the share
9:13
Speaker 1: of himself. The dogs eating the rib cage of the body. Okay,
9:19
Speaker 1: doctor a great stafford. Not only do they allegedly kill her,
9:24
Speaker 1: but then they're enjoying a little brunch out in the
9:28
Speaker 1: woods on their dead owner. Gray. Yeah, well, they are animals,
9:33
Speaker 1: and again it goes to the question of what condition
9:36
Speaker 1: were these animals being cared for and were they were
9:40
Speaker 1: they being were they hungry? Were they now nourished in
9:43
Speaker 1: the in the time preceding this incident? Um, I mean
9:47
Speaker 1: they're going to have to find a food source and
9:49
Speaker 1: it's it's it's ghastly. But again it goes to the
9:53
Speaker 1: question of what condition were these animals in prior to
9:56
Speaker 1: this attack. Well, if she uh to you, Scott Kimbler investigated,
10:00
Speaker 1: reporter has been taking such good care of them and
10:02
Speaker 1: they are her beloved pets. What do you mean? What
10:05
Speaker 1: does what is great? Talking about the condition they were
10:08
Speaker 1: being kept well, being taken care of pretty well was
10:12
Speaker 1: the case when they were with her. But here as
10:14
Speaker 1: of lately, she had some issues going on in her
10:17
Speaker 1: life and for whatever reason, she had left the dogs
10:21
Speaker 1: to be cared for by her father. Now they're police
10:24
Speaker 1: say that these dogs could easily have been considered neglected.
10:28
Speaker 1: Where they had been inside dogs, they were now outside
10:31
Speaker 1: dogs who were being keptain kennel's and police also say
10:34
Speaker 1: they were not being fed daily, So these were neglected
10:37
Speaker 1: animals at this point that only saw their regular master,
10:41
Speaker 1: Bethany Stevens um a couple of times a week, as
10:45
Speaker 1: opposed to where they had been her constant companion in
10:48
Speaker 1: time past. So they were likely angry okay that she
10:52
Speaker 1: wasn't with him everything, Doctor Gray Stafford. I've never been
10:56
Speaker 1: a cat person. I've always been a dog person. But
11:00
Speaker 1: when I was a prosecutor living in midtown Atlanta, a
11:04
Speaker 1: stone's throw from the courthouse, I found a stray cat,
11:08
Speaker 1: which I immediately named Coco, and I tried to give
11:12
Speaker 1: the cat away to a lot of cat lovers. I
11:14
Speaker 1: knew I was highly allergic to cats, but nobody would
11:20
Speaker 1: take the cat, so I took the cut. Well, can
11:23
Speaker 1: I tell you how much I love that cat? I
11:25
Speaker 1: still dream about the cat, had Coco for eighteen years.
11:29
Speaker 1: In fact, I nearly broke up with my now husband
11:33
Speaker 1: over the cat because I went to New York and
11:36
Speaker 1: he was keeping the cat while I was gone and
11:38
Speaker 1: he lost the thing. Okay, can I tell you? I mean,
11:43
Speaker 1: I remember I was in Washington, d C. Doing a
11:45
Speaker 1: Larry King show. When he had to ask, I said,
11:48
Speaker 1: how's Coco tonight? And he did. He hadn't even told
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Speaker 1: me the cat was gone. Can I tell you I
11:54
Speaker 1: was so mad at him. I had to take the
11:55
Speaker 1: phone in another room to tell him that if he
11:59
Speaker 1: did not find that cat, we were breaking up. Period.
12:03
Speaker 1: How could he be so careless and negligent is to
12:07
Speaker 1: lose my little Cocoa? And Coco was with me almost
12:11
Speaker 1: every day of my pregnancy. When I could could not
12:14
Speaker 1: walk and was in a wheelchair, Coco would would be
12:17
Speaker 1: with me. And he lived long enough to see me
12:21
Speaker 1: have the twins and finally find happiness, and then he
12:24
Speaker 1: went to heaven. So I completely understand being connected to
12:29
Speaker 1: a pet. Okay, what was my question, Jack, you carried
12:34
Speaker 1: away to Cocoa the cat um? Okay, my question is this?
12:39
Speaker 1: So the cat when I would have to go out
12:42
Speaker 1: of town. So I'm a bath person, I'll take a
12:46
Speaker 1: shower if I have to. The cat got mad at
12:49
Speaker 1: me one time and went and pooped in my bathtub,
12:52
Speaker 1: which was totally unlike him. He would he did that
12:55
Speaker 1: once in his life, and um I chased him around
12:59
Speaker 1: the apartment the rolled up in Enquirer. He never did.
13:04
Speaker 1: I never actually made contact with him because he had
13:06
Speaker 1: under the bed but he never did it again. But
13:09
Speaker 1: clearly he was mad at me because I was gone.
13:12
Speaker 1: That was my point, Jackie. So what do you make
13:15
Speaker 1: of this? She is in the process of moving, so
13:18
Speaker 1: she gives the pit bulls to her dad to keep them,
13:21
Speaker 1: and they're mad. Well, Nancy, you know, I'm a behavior
13:26
Speaker 1: so it's it's important for me not to try to
13:29
Speaker 1: ascribe human thoughts and feelings to animal behavior. Okay, Gray, Gray,
13:35
Speaker 1: But however, I have always told you that some of
13:39
Speaker 1: my best witnesses on the stand were dogs. I think
13:41
Speaker 1: they were a lot smarter than a lot of people.
13:43
Speaker 1: I know. I don't disagree with that, but I do
13:47
Speaker 1: think that what you describe, and that's a great story
13:50
Speaker 1: about Coco. What you describe, well, that animals don't handle change. Well.
13:56
Speaker 1: In some cases, some animals can handle change just fine.
13:59
Speaker 1: You go to New York to host Larry King, and
14:02
Speaker 1: you know, the animals upset and maybe wanders off from
14:04
Speaker 1: from your your husband. Um, not only animals handle change. Now, husband,
14:10
Speaker 1: as I like to urge him, my current husband, because
14:12
Speaker 1: he almost had become my husband after we lost Coco.
14:16
Speaker 1: We all deserve a second chance, don't we. But the
14:20
Speaker 1: thing with animals is if they're not prepared to deal
14:22
Speaker 1: with changes that could be changing and where they live,
14:25
Speaker 1: how they live, how often they're fed, who's coming to visit,
14:29
Speaker 1: who's not visiting. Those are really important things in the
14:31
Speaker 1: lives of animals, and in some cases animals are very
14:35
Speaker 1: poorly conditioned behaviorally and socialized poorly early on, and so
14:40
Speaker 1: they don't handle these changes very well. But Scott, according
14:44
Speaker 1: to what I've read, family and friends say the dogs
14:47
Speaker 1: were very well socialized. Have you read that? Have you
14:52
Speaker 1: learned the same thing, Scott Kimbler, Yeah, it's likely reference
14:55
Speaker 1: that they would if they were going to kill you
14:57
Speaker 1: with anything, it would be killing you with kisses. But again,
14:59
Speaker 1: they to see their their environment changed considerably, um the
15:04
Speaker 1: one would even consider drastically when they were an indoor
15:06
Speaker 1: apartment dog and and then being kept outside and apparently
15:10
Speaker 1: not being treated very well according to police. But what
15:14
Speaker 1: we know of it is that Bethany came home five
15:17
Speaker 1: times a week to see the dogs. They true had
15:20
Speaker 1: been moved to an outside kennel, but that was, you know,
15:26
Speaker 1: compared to the life they had before living with her
15:28
Speaker 1: in her home. I can see how they didn't like
15:32
Speaker 1: the change. But another issue is that it's extremely rare
15:37
Speaker 1: for a dog to just attack at random. So my
15:42
Speaker 1: question to you, Gray is once a dog tastes human flesh,
15:48
Speaker 1: I have researched and according to the sheriff, it is
15:51
Speaker 1: no longer safe to have the dog around humans. Why
15:54
Speaker 1: is it always pitbulls and Rottwiller's Why not a little
15:58
Speaker 1: coregy or a Labrador or a golden doodle. Why is
16:04
Speaker 1: it always the pit bulls? Gray, Well, I I think
16:08
Speaker 1: that some of that is due to the reporting. I
16:10
Speaker 1: think a lot of dogs are misidentified in reporting. Uh,
16:14
Speaker 1: it's easy to have a blanket phrase like a pit bull,
16:18
Speaker 1: which actually can encompass several different breeds and hybrids, and
16:21
Speaker 1: so I think that there is a is it an
16:25
Speaker 1: inflation if you will, in the in the reporting, and
16:27
Speaker 1: maybe some inaccuracy there. They're also very popular dogs, So
16:30
Speaker 1: if you go to different regions of the world, you
16:32
Speaker 1: may see dogs that have more bites per per capita
16:37
Speaker 1: because they're just more popular in that part of the world,
16:39
Speaker 1: And certainly pit bull are popular here in the United States,
16:43
Speaker 1: so there they dominate the numbers a little bit. Just
16:46
Speaker 1: got Morgan Forensics, expert Professor Forensics at Jackson State University.
16:51
Speaker 1: How can they tell beyond a shadow of a doubt
16:54
Speaker 1: that she was killed by her dogs? How they're going
16:58
Speaker 1: to be able to tell Nancy, is Matt chain matching
17:00
Speaker 1: the bite mark uh and uh the bite mark and
17:05
Speaker 1: also any kind of claw marks that were made by
17:08
Speaker 1: these animals. And the idea here is consistency, consistency with
17:13
Speaker 1: the type of injuries that this particular breed of animal
17:16
Speaker 1: can generate. And that can come from saying examination of
17:21
Speaker 1: the dentition the teeth of the dog, as well as
17:25
Speaker 1: the pause with the clause UM and and how how
17:28
Speaker 1: the death was precisely facilitated UM. Many times I've seen
17:34
Speaker 1: in malling instances UM animals will go for an area
17:38
Speaker 1: like the neck and that's kind of soft tissue, So
17:42
Speaker 1: they would be able to match up to a certain
17:45
Speaker 1: degree of reasonable certainty uh, the measurement of the mark
17:49
Speaker 1: on the neck as it as it compares to the
17:52
Speaker 1: marks uh that could be generated by these particular animals.
17:55
Speaker 1: I'd be very interested to know if they how well, UH,
18:00
Speaker 1: say a forensic veterinarian examined the teeth of these dogs
18:03
Speaker 1: after the attack. Dr Gray Stafford, who is an animal trainer,
18:07
Speaker 1: a zoologist and educator, a longtime colleague and friend, all
18:12
Speaker 1: the way back to the Jody Areas trial days the
18:15
Speaker 1: first trial that is great. Were there reports that one
18:20
Speaker 1: of the dogs had been violent in the past. Well,
18:23
Speaker 1: I think from the reporting we know that these were
18:25
Speaker 1: litter mates. I think that the victim had adopted the
18:28
Speaker 1: one at a young age and the other one may
18:30
Speaker 1: have been adopted out elsewhere, and then she then took
18:34
Speaker 1: the animal in and and there's some indication that that
18:37
Speaker 1: other dog came from a difficult or abusive situation. Uh,
18:42
Speaker 1: not a lot of reporting on that, but certainly you
18:46
Speaker 1: want to ask those questions about what sort of upbringing
18:48
Speaker 1: these animals had, how well socialized that were they, how
18:51
Speaker 1: well were they a condition to deal with changes? And
18:55
Speaker 1: as your other guests have pointed out, these dogs have
18:57
Speaker 1: gone through some immediate and dramatic changes in the in
18:59
Speaker 1: the days and weeks prior to this very tragic event.
19:02
Speaker 1: We are on it to Scott Kimbler, investigative reporter, just
19:07
Speaker 1: got Morgan and forensics expert and my longtime friend Dr
19:11
Speaker 1: Gray Stafford. Thank you so much. Right now I want
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Speaker 1: the the version that I there's two versions here. Um.
22:15
Speaker 1: I interviewed the plaintiff in this lawsuit. Her name is
22:19
Speaker 1: Sheila Harrowski, and she worked at Washington Hospital, which is
22:23
Speaker 1: a little bit outside of Pittsburgh. She was a unit
22:26
Speaker 1: secretary there for fifteen years, and she had to have
22:30
Speaker 1: some surgery done. It was a minor hernia surgery on
22:33
Speaker 1: an old incision, and um, she had the surgery done
22:38
Speaker 1: and she came back to work a few weeks later,
22:40
Speaker 1: I think four or five weeks later, and her colleague,
22:43
Speaker 1: a nurse there, said hey, I have something to show
22:45
Speaker 1: you might be good for your scrap book. And according
22:48
Speaker 1: to Sheila Haroski, what the nurse showed her was four
22:52
Speaker 1: or five cell phone pictures of her on the operating
22:55
Speaker 1: table naked. And that's how this whole story and lawsuit
22:58
Speaker 1: growke open. Let me understand, you're claiming the victim in
23:03
Speaker 1: this scenario also worked there. Absolutely, she did explain to
23:08
Speaker 1: me Ben Schmidt been joining me from the Pittsburgh Tribune
23:11
Speaker 1: Review who cracked the story. Ben, was there a connection
23:14
Speaker 1: between the victim and the alleged perpetrator, their their colleagues.
23:19
Speaker 1: They they both worked in the operating room. Um, and
23:22
Speaker 1: there's other people that were in there as well, including
23:24
Speaker 1: the surgeon. And there's a there's another version of what
23:28
Speaker 1: the hospital says happened that I can get into as well.
23:30
Speaker 1: But yeah, she's in there with her colleagues. Dr Bethany Marshall,
23:35
Speaker 1: psycho analysts, joining me along with Joe Scott Morgan forensics expert.
23:41
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Scott, when are you any more vulnerable
23:45
Speaker 1: than you are during an operation? You're totally knocked out
23:50
Speaker 1: And this was allegedly a friend of hers, but explained
23:53
Speaker 1: Joe Scott just how knocked out this victim was, Oh,
23:56
Speaker 1: you're if for those for those in the audience that
23:59
Speaker 1: have never under gone, you're it's a it's a it's
24:04
Speaker 1: total and complete darkness. You're at the hands and the
24:06
Speaker 1: mercy of those individuals that are around you. There's I
24:09
Speaker 1: don't know of any other situation other than possibly the dead, uh,
24:14
Speaker 1: that are any more vulnerable in these circumstances, and there's
24:17
Speaker 1: an amount of trust that goes along with this, and
24:19
Speaker 1: this is this has certainly been violated in this case.
24:23
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanist joining me out of l A
24:26
Speaker 1: in addition to Joe Scott Morgan, Dr Bethany, I know
24:29
Speaker 1: you heard what bench Schmidt just said, and he has
24:33
Speaker 1: beat the streets on this thing to talk to everybody.
24:35
Speaker 1: But imagine it being your friend that you work with
24:39
Speaker 1: that takes naked photos of you butt naked on the
24:42
Speaker 1: operating table, just lying there, probably your arms and legs
24:46
Speaker 1: sprawled everywhere, and then disseminates them. It's so horrifying, Nancy,
24:53
Speaker 1: and and not only a friend, but a friend who
24:55
Speaker 1: is in a position of seniority, because my understanding is
24:58
Speaker 1: that that this is a nerve us who took the pictures,
25:01
Speaker 1: but the victim, the patient, was somebody at more of
25:04
Speaker 1: a clerical level in the hospital there, so she was
25:08
Speaker 1: actually abused by a superior And the shocking thing about
25:12
Speaker 1: this too is that there's such strict laws. You know,
25:15
Speaker 1: we think of hippa, we think of all the training
25:18
Speaker 1: that goes into being a nurse, goes into being an
25:20
Speaker 1: a theologist, a doctor and that all these laws were violated.
25:25
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, these people hold licenses. Not only does
25:29
Speaker 1: the hospital have a license, but the nurse has a
25:33
Speaker 1: license to practice, that anasthsiologist has a license to practice,
25:37
Speaker 1: the surgeon has a license to practice. And all these
25:40
Speaker 1: people are operating as a team in this um surgical units.
25:46
Speaker 1: So you have a group of people conspiring together against
25:50
Speaker 1: one victim who's not even conscious or aware. Back to
25:54
Speaker 1: Ben Schmidt, reporter with the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, you know,
25:59
Speaker 1: I I'm looking at a photo of Sheila Harroski. She's
26:03
Speaker 1: forty five years old, and she issued Washington Hospital is
26:06
Speaker 1: chief executive officer and the doctor performing her procedure after
26:11
Speaker 1: nude photos were allegedly taken of her during her surgery. Hey,
26:16
Speaker 1: that opens up a whole another can of worms, Ben Schmidt,
26:19
Speaker 1: I mean, I really just started thinking about this. This
26:22
Speaker 1: is in a side bend. Just go with me down
26:23
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole for a moment. When my friend, my
26:26
Speaker 1: longtime friend, Joan Rivers passed away and there were reports
26:32
Speaker 1: that one of the doctors or somebody within the operating room,
26:36
Speaker 1: and it was at a clinic, it wasn't at the hospital,
26:39
Speaker 1: took selfies with Joan as she was lying there on
26:42
Speaker 1: the table. That's when I first started thinking about the
26:45
Speaker 1: possibility of this. But Ben, the other can of worms
26:49
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about that was just opened up the doctor.
26:53
Speaker 1: I mean, weren't there other people in there when the
26:57
Speaker 1: photo was taken. Shouldn't they have said had something? Well? Absolutely,
27:03
Speaker 1: and that's what the lawsuit alleges. Um and um. It's interesting.
27:09
Speaker 1: And if if you're ready for me to get into
27:10
Speaker 1: the hospital side, I can do that because they actually
27:13
Speaker 1: got I gotta ask you more thing. Is it true
27:15
Speaker 1: that Sheila had worked in the hospital for about fifteen
27:19
Speaker 1: years and then a colleague comes up and approaches her
27:22
Speaker 1: when she gets back from her and your surgery with
27:25
Speaker 1: photos on the friends selphone, saying hey, I got something
27:28
Speaker 1: for your scrap book, buddy, and it's her naked. Did
27:32
Speaker 1: that happen? Those are the allegations, but it is a
27:35
Speaker 1: fact that she worked there for fifteen years. And if
27:38
Speaker 1: you if you're looking at the same photo that we printed,
27:41
Speaker 1: that it's actually her hospital. I d she emailed it
27:44
Speaker 1: to me because she wanted to, you know, prove that
27:45
Speaker 1: she was who she was. Oh my stars. Okay, back
27:50
Speaker 1: to what I was asking about the doctor. His name
27:52
Speaker 1: was Dennis Brown. I don't know if he was in
27:54
Speaker 1: there when the photo was taken. I know he performed
27:57
Speaker 1: the surgery, but what do we know. What's the spital
28:00
Speaker 1: saying you're right, man, let's hear their side of it. Well.
28:03
Speaker 1: And this is interesting because you know you're legal expertically.
28:06
Speaker 1: When you write these lawsuits stories. Um, and there's a
28:09
Speaker 1: corporation or a hospital, the reaction you get is it's
28:12
Speaker 1: pending litigation, we cannot comment. That's fully what I expected
28:15
Speaker 1: to get. Instead, UM, I got a statement, um. And
28:19
Speaker 1: the statement is that, um, Sheila Harraski was knowledgeable of this,
28:25
Speaker 1: and she participated in a practical joke, and that she
28:29
Speaker 1: had known the doctor and was friends with him. And
28:32
Speaker 1: what she did was she got one of those Halloween
28:35
Speaker 1: type zombie scars or something and placed it on her
28:38
Speaker 1: abdomen before the surgery to play a joke on the doctor,
28:42
Speaker 1: and that that's what this was all about. However, at
28:45
Speaker 1: the same time, that statement says that the hospital still
28:50
Speaker 1: did do an investigation and they still did fire the nurse.
28:53
Speaker 1: So you've kind of got okay, Well, did she play
28:56
Speaker 1: a joke and did she expect pictures to be taken,
28:59
Speaker 1: and if so, why was the nurse fired. And then
29:02
Speaker 1: also on top of that, you're still not supposed to
29:04
Speaker 1: take pictures in there. So there's a lot going on here. Okay,
29:07
Speaker 1: let me understand this. The hospital is saying that one
29:11
Speaker 1: of the friends had, well, I don't know if i'd
29:13
Speaker 1: call it a friend. One of the colleagues had one
29:16
Speaker 1: of those zombie scars you wear at Halloween and put
29:20
Speaker 1: it on the woman's stomach, but and took a picture
29:23
Speaker 1: of the stomach and it was a joke on the
29:26
Speaker 1: doctor for when he came in. But she, Sheila Harovski,
29:32
Speaker 1: is saying they took naked photos of her. Uh, that's
29:38
Speaker 1: a lot different, Ben Schmidt. A naked photo of your
29:41
Speaker 1: body while you're passed out unconscious is a lot different
29:45
Speaker 1: from a photo of a fake incision or a fake
29:50
Speaker 1: scar on your tummy. That's correct, And she does. She
29:54
Speaker 1: did say to me up front that she participated in
29:56
Speaker 1: that joke, but she still had no idea that someone
29:59
Speaker 1: was going to take pictures of her and then show
30:01
Speaker 1: her the pictures and then disseminate the pictures. So she
30:03
Speaker 1: was very upfront. Yes, I did do the scar, and
30:05
Speaker 1: they will probably mention that go ahead, Well, I don't understand, Nancy. Yeah, hey, listen,
30:13
Speaker 1: if I could just interject something right here real quick.
30:16
Speaker 1: One of one of the things here that's that's really
30:18
Speaker 1: striking to me from a scientific background is the fact
30:22
Speaker 1: that first off, they have this I'm assuming this is
30:25
Speaker 1: being done from a phone in a surgical suite. Surgical
30:28
Speaker 1: suite is supposed to be a sterile environment. And now
30:31
Speaker 1: you're talking about bringing in some kind of cosmetic appliance
30:35
Speaker 1: that's used during Halloween. How how was all this stuff
30:38
Speaker 1: treated relative to uh, the cleanliness of it? And and
30:43
Speaker 1: now you're telling me that you're going to open up
30:45
Speaker 1: this woman and what is supposed to be a sterile
30:48
Speaker 1: environment using sterile procedures, gloves, uh, instruments and all the
30:53
Speaker 1: sort of things, and you're introducing these items into this environment.
30:56
Speaker 1: This is setting the stage for something, uh that is
31:00
Speaker 1: absolutely horrific. When we think about things like septicemia, and
31:04
Speaker 1: we're thinking about all these nosocomial infections, which are infections.
31:12
Speaker 1: Nosocomial infections that means infections that come about as a
31:16
Speaker 1: result of the environment that you're in, and hospitals in
31:19
Speaker 1: and of themselves are notorious, uh for being little breeding
31:23
Speaker 1: grounds of infection. It makes sense because of all the
31:26
Speaker 1: sick people there, and these people are vulnerable, and you
31:29
Speaker 1: know this, this strikes a real cord um. Yeah. I mean,
31:33
Speaker 1: her privacy has obviously been violated. She's been violated as
31:36
Speaker 1: a person. But if you want to take it down
31:38
Speaker 1: to the base level here, to the basement of this thing. Uh,
31:42
Speaker 1: we're talking about a life endangering circumstance that these people
31:46
Speaker 1: certainly should know better. And at the end of the day,
31:50
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the surgeon that is
31:53
Speaker 1: in that suite with that person, they are the captain
31:57
Speaker 1: of that ship. This means that the responsibility and the
32:01
Speaker 1: onus of this falls on their shoulders. It'll be really
32:04
Speaker 1: interesting to see how the hospital treats these surgeons or
32:08
Speaker 1: little gods as I like to describe. I know, Joe
32:10
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, you're the forensics expert, you're the professor of
32:14
Speaker 1: forensics at Jacksonville State University. And I don't want germs either. Okay,
32:19
Speaker 1: I'm against germs, but Ben Schmidt, I'm a lot more
32:22
Speaker 1: against him. If they're on my naked body, which is
32:24
Speaker 1: on a cell phone photo which has been passed around.
32:27
Speaker 1: I'm really against those germs. There's a big difference in
32:30
Speaker 1: these two stories, Ben Schmidt joining me from the Pittsburgh
32:33
Speaker 1: Tribune review. According to the hospital, it was a joke
32:37
Speaker 1: photo of just the victim's stomach with a fake scar
32:42
Speaker 1: zombie scar put on it to shock the doctor when
32:45
Speaker 1: he walked in. They all worked together. As opposed to
32:48
Speaker 1: what she Sheila Harovski is claiming in her in thirty
32:52
Speaker 1: nine page complaint that naked photos, nude photos of her
32:57
Speaker 1: and specifically her genitals were taken and disseminated. Ben Schmidt,
33:04
Speaker 1: those are two diametrically opposed stories. They cannot both be true.
33:12
Speaker 1: That one is just the stomach and the other story
33:15
Speaker 1: is that were her genitals. Okay, I mean maybe both
33:21
Speaker 1: types of photos were taken, but what what do you
33:25
Speaker 1: what do you know, Ben Schmidt, Well, and what we
33:29
Speaker 1: know about that is and those are very valid points.
33:32
Speaker 1: But we do know for a fact that there was
33:34
Speaker 1: disciplinary action taken and that the nurse was fired. So
33:39
Speaker 1: the fact that the hospital, you know, went on record
33:41
Speaker 1: and said that that that tells you something as well
33:44
Speaker 1: that they realized something was done wrong. We don't know
33:48
Speaker 1: exactly what the photos look like, but we know that
33:51
Speaker 1: somebody was fired and there were probably photos taken. You
33:54
Speaker 1: spoke directly with Sila Harovski, I have yes, And did
33:59
Speaker 1: she show you the photos? She did not, She does
34:03
Speaker 1: not have them. She saw them on the phone, and Um,
34:07
Speaker 1: she went home that day and then the next day
34:10
Speaker 1: went back to human resources and started reporting everything. Well,
34:14
Speaker 1: I guess so if it's true, is her story, Ben Schmidt,
34:20
Speaker 1: that photos were taken over genitals, that is her version. Yes,
34:27
Speaker 1: when you spoke to her and Ben Schmidt, what was
34:29
Speaker 1: her demeanor. She's still very upset, um, but very detailed
34:37
Speaker 1: and it was funny she did Actually she was the
34:40
Speaker 1: first interview I did through her lawyer, and she did
34:42
Speaker 1: say that they're going to claim that I used this
34:45
Speaker 1: car and it was some sort of joke and I
34:48
Speaker 1: didn't understand at the time what she was talking about.
34:50
Speaker 1: So I had her, you know, go over those in
34:53
Speaker 1: fact several times and then sure enough, when the hospital
34:56
Speaker 1: did respond an hour or two later, that was their claim.
35:00
Speaker 1: And definitely she was you know, she was emotional, she
35:03
Speaker 1: was crying on the phone. Um, very upset. And the
35:07
Speaker 1: couple has requested a jury trial. They are not playing
35:11
Speaker 1: around now. She also says Dr Bethany Marshall joined me
35:16
Speaker 1: Psychoanalyst out of l A, that she has been now
35:20
Speaker 1: treated as a bad person, that she has been harassed
35:25
Speaker 1: and um approached and accused and mistreated at work since
35:32
Speaker 1: she went to h R about this well, because she
35:38
Speaker 1: has challenged an entire hospital culture. You know, the saying, Nancy,
35:42
Speaker 1: where there's smoke, there's fire. It's hard to believe that
35:45
Speaker 1: this is an isolated incident. Um. These things do not
35:49
Speaker 1: just happen once. And as I said earlier, she was
35:52
Speaker 1: a little lower on the totem pole in terms of
35:55
Speaker 1: the staff there because she was I think the unit secretary.
35:58
Speaker 1: This is the surgeon, the entsiologists, the nurse, This is
36:02
Speaker 1: a whole group of people who have been in the
36:05
Speaker 1: o R together for a long long time and somehow
36:08
Speaker 1: think that this kind of behavior is okay. I believe
36:12
Speaker 1: they lured her in by saying that this was going
36:15
Speaker 1: to be a joke, that maybe even making her believe
36:18
Speaker 1: that she would be a part of their club, that
36:21
Speaker 1: she would be accepted by them in some way. And
36:23
Speaker 1: then once she was under and Nancy not only naked
36:27
Speaker 1: but intubated. When you think of somebody going into a
36:30
Speaker 1: major surgery and there's an anentsiologist there. They're indibated, they
36:35
Speaker 1: have a tube down their throat, they're completely naked in
36:38
Speaker 1: the o R. Who knows, you know, how her body
36:41
Speaker 1: was posed, and they really took advantage of maybe what
36:45
Speaker 1: she thought was a benign or minor joke, to actually
36:48
Speaker 1: photograph her entire body, her genitals. She could not give consent.
36:54
Speaker 1: But again, you and I have covered so many hospital
36:57
Speaker 1: stories in the past where there's mal practice and all
37:01
Speaker 1: kinds of things go on. It's never an isolated incident.
37:04
Speaker 1: It's usually a culture of disrespect towards patients. And I
37:09
Speaker 1: think that that's what this story is going to uncover,
37:11
Speaker 1: that maybe more victims will come forward, maybe more patients
37:15
Speaker 1: um that this nurse has a cell phone. What other
37:19
Speaker 1: pictures are on her cell phone? What is the hospital hiding,
37:22
Speaker 1: what other evidences they're out there? I think that that's
37:25
Speaker 1: what's what's going to be so interesting about this case.
37:28
Speaker 1: To Alan Duke joining me right now, Alan, what do
37:32
Speaker 1: we know? State investigators paid an unannounced visit on Washington
37:37
Speaker 1: Hospitals o R to see just how common it was
37:40
Speaker 1: for the staff there to have cell phones with them.
37:42
Speaker 1: During surgeries. What they found many of the doctors and
37:46
Speaker 1: nurses had phones in their lab coat pockets. They ordered
37:51
Speaker 1: the hospital to take steps to educate the staff about
37:54
Speaker 1: the importance of not taking photos of patients. And it's
37:57
Speaker 1: worth noting though the person who alleged he took this
38:00
Speaker 1: photo was a person of authority to Joe Scott Morgan,
38:04
Speaker 1: forensics expert. Every time I've had to have a surgery
38:09
Speaker 1: um which I just had one just recently form a
38:14
Speaker 1: mass that turned up in my chest that turned out
38:17
Speaker 1: to be benign, Praise God. But I mean during all
38:21
Speaker 1: my last multiple surgeries, the last thing. First of all,
38:25
Speaker 1: I insist that I smell everybody's breath to make sure
38:28
Speaker 1: that they are not drinking. That's first thing, now that
38:31
Speaker 1: we've got that straight. As I'm sniffing their breath, I
38:33
Speaker 1: look at their eyes to see if they're dilated by chance.
38:36
Speaker 1: Then I bring up the specter of John Rivers. I
38:39
Speaker 1: bring up you all read about what happened with John Rivers, right, okay,
38:43
Speaker 1: And then the last thing I do is make everybody
38:49
Speaker 1: pray before we start those surgery, and hopefully between all
38:53
Speaker 1: that everybody's sobered up enough that they won't take cell
38:56
Speaker 1: phone photos. I'm just thinking about this one and and
39:01
Speaker 1: if these allegations are true, and what Dr Bethany was
39:04
Speaker 1: saying Joe Scott about she's quote just the secretary, and
39:08
Speaker 1: they are the o R nurses and they are the
39:11
Speaker 1: doctor and all these so called professionals, how that must
39:16
Speaker 1: have made her feel. I mean, I know Bethany's a shrink,
39:18
Speaker 1: but Joe Scott, I mean, really, when you think of victims,
39:23
Speaker 1: I'd be very hard pressed to say this was not
39:26
Speaker 1: a crime. Joe Scott, Yeah, I would be too, Nancy. Uh,
39:31
Speaker 1: I've worked in in these environments similar to this with
39:35
Speaker 1: medical professionals for years and years, and uh, there is
39:39
Speaker 1: a hierarchy in there and you and you hit you
39:43
Speaker 1: hit the nail right on the head when you talked
39:45
Speaker 1: about being part of the club, um and just to
39:48
Speaker 1: be accepted, just to be a part of it. And
39:51
Speaker 1: it's a horrible, horrible situation. Um. I think I think
39:56
Speaker 1: it draws draws the question this if it had been
39:59
Speaker 1: the s Jen undergoing surgery, would they have done this
40:03
Speaker 1: to him? And that I think that that really echoes
40:07
Speaker 1: here that sentiment that everybody gets treated fairly in this
40:11
Speaker 1: kind of environment and respectfully, because this is this is
40:14
Speaker 1: the ultimate violation. You You've really dehumanized this poor woman
40:18
Speaker 1: to the point where she'll be you know, she'll be
40:21
Speaker 1: humiliated for years to come. And um, and she might
40:25
Speaker 1: very well be a fantastic worker in this environment. That's
40:29
Speaker 1: a high stress environment. She's poured her life into it,
40:32
Speaker 1: and now you're gonna do this to her. It's it's
40:34
Speaker 1: absolutely it's a terrible commentary on medical profession in general.
40:39
Speaker 1: And this is not an isolated incident. Nancy that this
40:42
Speaker 1: kind of thing has gone on the past, and I
40:44
Speaker 1: would be very interested to know what else is on
40:47
Speaker 1: that phone, just as Dr Bethany had mentioned. So where
40:49
Speaker 1: does it stand now? Ben Schmidt joining me, reporter with
40:52
Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Tribune review what's happening next? Man, Well, the
40:56
Speaker 1: lawsuit was just filed um uh this week, and so
41:01
Speaker 1: that's you know, I'm all still processing processing that. But
41:04
Speaker 1: I think those are great points. And there's some questions
41:07
Speaker 1: I've asked, was there a cuivminal investigation? Apparently there wasn't.
41:11
Speaker 1: And also, um, where there are other incidents, did the
41:14
Speaker 1: state Department of Health investigate? Um? Those are some things
41:18
Speaker 1: that I'm going to be looking into going forward. We're
41:21
Speaker 1: on it. Ben Schmidt, Pittsburgh Tribune Review, J. Scott Morgan, Dr.
41:27
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. We are on it. I want to thank
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43:26
Speaker 1: want to start with the story of a little teen
43:28
Speaker 1: girl who, just before she drops her phone in the
43:33
Speaker 1: bath and electrocutes herself to death, had actually taken a photo.
43:38
Speaker 1: This gorgeous little girl, Madison co from Lovington, New Mexico,
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Speaker 1: had sent a text message just before her death. She
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Speaker 1: sent the message to a friend, along with a picture
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Speaker 1: of her phone plugged into an extension cord moments before
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Speaker 1: she died, and she wrote, quote, when you use an
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Speaker 1: extension words so you can plug your phone in. Why
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Speaker 1: all you're in the bath? How many hundreds of times
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Speaker 1: have I done that and put it on speaker so
44:08
Speaker 1: I could actually keep working while I was in the bathtub. Yes,
44:14
Speaker 1: am I the only one that's done that? Okay? People
44:17
Speaker 1: in studio were saying, yes, you are okay. Well, I
44:19
Speaker 1: don't believe that. I want to first talk about a
44:22
Speaker 1: little Madison co This little fourteen year old girl electrocuted
44:27
Speaker 1: dead in her Lovington home using a cell phone while
44:30
Speaker 1: in the tub. Um she had just sent that text
44:35
Speaker 1: message photo I told you about. She was at her
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Speaker 1: dad's home when she was fatally electrocuted after she touched
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Speaker 1: a fraid extension cord she was using to charge her
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Speaker 1: cell phone. Now, at first, many of us, like police,
44:54
Speaker 1: thought that she had dropped her Samsung Edge Plus into
44:58
Speaker 1: the tub, but police say it had not been immersed
45:02
Speaker 1: in the water. As for the pregnant mom, we're not
45:06
Speaker 1: so sure about that. Um to Joe Scott Morgan Joseph
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, forensics expert and professor of forensics at Jacksonville
45:14
Speaker 1: State University, Jes Scott, I thought that when you drop
45:19
Speaker 1: a cell phone in the tub. First of all, what
45:22
Speaker 1: about when it is not plugged in for charging, Well,
45:26
Speaker 1: that electrocute you. No, Nancy, it wouldn't because right then
45:30
Speaker 1: you're just talking about an energy source which is strictly
45:34
Speaker 1: battery generated, which is only given off a very low
45:39
Speaker 1: amount of voltage. It's uh, it's when we get into
45:42
Speaker 1: other areas that we have to be concerned. In fact,
45:44
Speaker 1: in this case, the little girl Madison co took extra
45:48
Speaker 1: precautions to keep the cords dry. You can see in
45:51
Speaker 1: the photo that she sent she had placed them kind
45:53
Speaker 1: of surrounded them with a towel. Um what she may
45:59
Speaker 1: not have known that part of the cord was frayed.
46:03
Speaker 1: Now what does that mean While she's in the tub,
46:06
Speaker 1: police say she reached over and touched that freight extension cord,
46:12
Speaker 1: which may have caused the fatal shot. What does this mean,
46:15
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, what it means is anybody at
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Speaker 1: home that you have an extension cord laid around, go
46:19
Speaker 1: take a look at it just for a second. You'll
46:21
Speaker 1: see that rubber lining that's on the outside of the cord.
46:24
Speaker 1: If that rubber lining, that rubber lining is there for
46:26
Speaker 1: a specific reason, because there are hot lines that are
46:30
Speaker 1: inside of that rubber lining. If they get frayed, if
46:33
Speaker 1: they get fraid, the outside of the lining gets cracked.
46:37
Speaker 1: That exposes you to this direct current that's coming out
46:41
Speaker 1: of that's coming out of the wall socket. And that's
46:44
Speaker 1: that's potentially what happened in this case, Nancy, because these
46:47
Speaker 1: wires were exposed. As they begin to talk about so
46:50
Speaker 1: then at that point in time, the electricity, you know,
46:54
Speaker 1: you gotta respect it. It doesn't understand it. It goes
46:58
Speaker 1: directly into into the body and then it causes an
47:01
Speaker 1: electrical disruption in the heart. And this is this is
47:04
Speaker 1: a fatal fatal event. Two to Alan Duke joining me
47:10
Speaker 1: right now, Alan, what do we know? Well, we know
47:13
Speaker 1: that this is not the only instance of this happening happening.
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Speaker 1: You mentioned the woman who, by the way, was eight
47:18
Speaker 1: months pregnant when she just very recently died in her bathtub.
47:23
Speaker 1: British authorities have been investigating this problem because they've also
47:27
Speaker 1: had deaths there and one of the things that they
47:30
Speaker 1: found out, besides the extension cords, those lightning cables that
47:33
Speaker 1: cost so much if you buy the original Apple one,
47:36
Speaker 1: the ones that come with the phone, what are there,
47:41
Speaker 1: but a lot of times at convenience stores and other
47:43
Speaker 1: places you find with them for two or three dollars
47:45
Speaker 1: or less, and those are dangerous. British authorities tested four
47:51
Speaker 1: hundred of those lightning cables that are used for iPhones.
47:54
Speaker 1: They found only three met safety standards. Oh my stars,
47:58
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, and this little girl um According to
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Speaker 1: the dad, she says, she was my everything. And I know,
48:09
Speaker 1: I know how he feels when I look at the twins.
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Speaker 1: They're just my everything. She was smart. Loving recently graduated
48:16
Speaker 1: eighth grade from Terravista Middle School. She played on the
48:19
Speaker 1: basketball team on the band, made great grades, spending the
48:24
Speaker 1: summer with dad in Lovington, where the fatal accident occurred
48:29
Speaker 1: on her way to high school. The family urging people,
48:33
Speaker 1: the bathroom is the place for showers, and your phones
48:37
Speaker 1: don't belong in the bathroom. Electricity and water do not mix.
48:41
Speaker 1: All it takes is a drop, one drop. I mean,
48:45
Speaker 1: looking at this little girl, she's just just beautiful. To
48:51
Speaker 1: Joseph S. Gott Morgan, forensics expert, what happens to your
48:54
Speaker 1: body even from a small shot, Well, it's it's obviously
48:59
Speaker 1: very painful. I think that any of us can identify
49:01
Speaker 1: with this UH. And what happens is is that the
49:05
Speaker 1: electricity that's coming out of the cored directly UH, follows
49:10
Speaker 1: into the body and it will follow the path at
49:11
Speaker 1: least resistance. And um, just so that we understand, when
49:16
Speaker 1: our heart beats, that's a tiny electrical impulse that literally
49:20
Speaker 1: comes out of the brain. Okay, just so folks that
49:24
Speaker 1: under at home understand that. And if this electrical impulse
49:28
Speaker 1: gets disrupted in any way, this can lead to a
49:32
Speaker 1: fatal cardiac event, which happened in this particular case. Apparently
49:37
Speaker 1: one more thing we need to understand, Nancy, And I
49:40
Speaker 1: don't know folks, Folks might be aware of this, but
49:43
Speaker 1: if if in the bathtub when we're bathing and we
49:47
Speaker 1: use soap, soap actually makes our bodies more conductive to
49:51
Speaker 1: electricity than just say plain water. There's a whole electrochemical
49:56
Speaker 1: thing that goes on here. So if her hands were
49:59
Speaker 1: in fact soapy when she touched that line, it sets
50:03
Speaker 1: up for even a higher risk of looking they'll talk
50:06
Speaker 1: about the pregnant woman elexecuated charging her phone as she
50:10
Speaker 1: used it in the bath just two weeks before she
50:14
Speaker 1: gave was to give birth. Just a beautiful, beautiful young lady.
50:20
Speaker 1: What happened? Alan Deep? This was on New Year's Eve
50:23
Speaker 1: and she was at her home in the bathtub. Her
50:27
Speaker 1: husband had left the home and realized that he couldn't
50:30
Speaker 1: get back in. He didn't have his keys and he
50:32
Speaker 1: had to break the door down to get to his
50:35
Speaker 1: wife after she did not answer. When he rushed in,
50:38
Speaker 1: he found her submerged unconscious in the bath. So many
50:41
Speaker 1: times we all of a sudden suspect the husband might
50:44
Speaker 1: have done something. But the paramedics came and tried to
50:46
Speaker 1: resuscitate her. Turned out she had suffered a cardiac arrest.
50:50
Speaker 1: They were unable to save her or the life of
50:53
Speaker 1: the baby, and the investigation subsequently concluded that it was
50:57
Speaker 1: the mobile phone charging quote in the media facility of
51:00
Speaker 1: the bathtub that caused the electrocution. Her mobile phone was found,
51:07
Speaker 1: as police say, in the immediate vicinity of the bathtub
51:10
Speaker 1: and is believed to have caused electrocution. According to the
51:15
Speaker 1: Dauphine ly bear to you, Joe Scott Morgan, how would
51:19
Speaker 1: that happen? If that's if that is in fact what happened,
51:23
Speaker 1: I would I would not look at the phone so much.
51:26
Speaker 1: I would look at the cord, as as Alan had
51:29
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, because you're going to have to have a
51:31
Speaker 1: source itself where you have this direct line of current
51:35
Speaker 1: that is running and essentially this water becomes electrified. One
51:38
Speaker 1: of the things I'd be very interested to know in
51:41
Speaker 1: this particular case Nancy, is you've got this young woman
51:44
Speaker 1: who is in fact in uh advantacy, twenty one years old.
51:48
Speaker 1: She is not going to have a heart attack. Okay,
51:52
Speaker 1: it had to be something else, No, But if one
51:55
Speaker 1: of the things I'd be interested in Nancy is she's
51:57
Speaker 1: in an advanced state of pregnancy this point in time,
52:01
Speaker 1: how compromised she might have been, say, if this was
52:04
Speaker 1: just simply a jolt from the electricity, if she they're
52:07
Speaker 1: kept throwing around this term submerged in the water, I'd
52:11
Speaker 1: be very interested to know what the findings were relative
52:14
Speaker 1: to how much water she had on board in her
52:17
Speaker 1: lungs at autopsy when they went to examine her to
52:21
Speaker 1: see if they said she died of cardiac arrest. My
52:24
Speaker 1: interest is the electrocution. How can you look at a
52:31
Speaker 1: body and tell someone was electrocuted. Most of the time
52:35
Speaker 1: when we take a look for electrocution, there will be
52:38
Speaker 1: a specific point of injury and Nancy, this is a
52:41
Speaker 1: very fine, fine uh uh examination that has to take place.
52:47
Speaker 1: These marks, some people characterize them as burn marks. They
52:50
Speaker 1: won't necessarily look like burn Sometimes they'll have kind of
52:53
Speaker 1: a pink is hue to them. Uh. You have to
52:55
Speaker 1: be very careful and you want to think about points
52:57
Speaker 1: of contact. What what is the prime are location. Well,
53:01
Speaker 1: first we're gonna look at the palms of the hands
53:03
Speaker 1: than any other kind of ancillary areas where her bear
53:07
Speaker 1: skin might have touched that area. So the examination has
53:09
Speaker 1: to be very very thorough, very thorough. Bottom line, cell
53:15
Speaker 1: phones and water do not mix. Charging your cell phone,
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Speaker 1: electrical cords, extension chords, they don't mix. Nancy Grace signing off,
53:28
Speaker 1: goodbye Fran