Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Sylvia Likens - Girl in the Basement

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Sylvia Likens - Girl in the Basement · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Morning.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. Hey, what's up.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Grim, a true crime podcast. And we're a little bit late.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We're one day.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Late, twenty four hours.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Not too bad, that's it. I mean generally we're on
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: time every time. We are every Tuesday, every morning. Yeah,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: but I needed a little extra research time for this case.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Totally fair.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, this case took a lot of wind out of me.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have me a bit worried. I'm not gonna lie, and.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to do a justice. And I mean,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: you could research this case for days and weeks on end,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: but I had to stop at some point. The one
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: extra day is where I'm calling it.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's the case for a lot of them, though.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Oh that's true.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: There's always books and stuff that you find out once
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: you've already started, and it's kind of too late to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: read a whole book. But you just got to draw
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the line.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: There's always a line. You got to draw it.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And there are books for this case, there are movies
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: for this case. There are documentaries for this case, many
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of them I want to check out after actually doing
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: this episode.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well done. Pour on that beer.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I think I did. There's a little bit
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: too much head on it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Oh is that I thought it looked pretty good.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And you were still but a hold of conversation, so
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I was a little impressed.
• 2:00
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• 2:03
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• 2:07
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• 2:11
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• 2:14
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• 2:18
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• 2:26
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• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's Sharya, I don't know, but I think it's shiy.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It's a glorious name.
• 2:31
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• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a thank you for our patrons. And we haven't said
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: anything yet about it either. You ready to say it?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Do you know? You don't even know what I'm talking about?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Do you?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I actually don't know if I do.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: It was your idea? Shit?
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh you got it?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: You sure? I saw the light bulb.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Ding it was my idea. I just totally forgot.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, let's relating to the merch yes.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: So we're dropping new merch.
• 3:11
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• 3:26
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• 3:30
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• 3:31
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• 3:33
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• 3:37
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• 3:41
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• 3:51
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• 3:53
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• 3:57
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• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's the selfies that do it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about the selfies for us.
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• 4:15
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• 4:17
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• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Perfect. So yeah, I'm going to use it.
• 4:23
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• 4:26
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• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm definitely getting the It would be a cassette player, right.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: The Walkman, the Walkman?
• 4:34
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• 4:40
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• 4:42
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• 4:44
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• 4:45
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• 4:50
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• 4:52
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• 4:55
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• 4:58
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• 5:09
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• 5:11
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• 5:51
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• 5:55
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• 5:57
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• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I'm mad at Spotify too. I don't know if I
• 6:04
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• 6:04
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• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know what the heck is happening, But
• 6:08
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• 6:12
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• 6:13
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• 6:16
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• 6:18
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• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I know, because all my like songs were gone, and
• 6:21
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• 6:24
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• 6:25
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• 6:27
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• 6:29
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• 6:31
  Speaker 1: what the heck?
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: You tried blaming me? At first, it was like the songs. No,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: definitely not.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, no, I still have Spotify, but I was like,
• 6:42
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• 6:44
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• 6:45
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• 6:51
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• 6:52
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• 6:55
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• 6:57
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• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, all right, all that stuff being said, are you
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: ready to dive into today's case?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: No? No, I usually say I am, but today I
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: don't know. I feel very I have a heavy feeling
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: on my chest.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well it's it's a very very heavy case. So
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: trigger warning on oh pretty much all of it.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Wow. Well, because you compared this to like the other
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: case we've done that just has tormented me to this day.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So yes, this one is primarily trigger warning for abuse,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: so fore warning for that.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for the trigger warning.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And I also want to give a shout out to
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Dana Slater, a friend of ours here. She actually put
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: me onto this case. I can't believe I've never heard
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: of it before. I mean I have heard the name.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I knew the name and I knew that there was
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: an abuse case surrounding it, but that's the extent that
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I knew, but I never knew what was involved in it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And holy shit, Dana, you sent me on one hell
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: of a research. So I don't know if I should
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: say thank you, but definitely shout out to you for
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: doing that.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. Actually, how many of the requests that
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: we get that I have never heard of?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Oh I know.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And it's so crazy because it's like, oh, we've never
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: heard of this case. Oh, this case seems like it's
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: so unknown. And then it's like everyone on our Patreon
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: and Instagram and Facebook's like, oh, I know that case,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: and we're like, what I know.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like they just they know way more true
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: crime cases than us.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: You guys are way smart.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: You guys are just awesome.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: So this is the case of Sylvia Likings.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, that name does sound familiar to me, but I
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: can't say I know anything.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you're about to I'm about to learn. You're about
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: to learn way too much. Okay, Okay, here we go.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So Sylvia Marie Likings was born on January third. Why
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: don't I have the year in here? First? Mistake one sec. Okay,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I know I made the mistake because I took out
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: the day of her death and accidentally deleted her birth
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: year as well.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's a fair mistake.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I didn't want to give that away right away.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: But she was born January third, nineteen forty nine.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, it were some time ago.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: We're heading back to the fifties for this case. So
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: she was the third born out of five children born
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: to Lester Cecil Likns and Elizabeth Elizabeth or Betty Francis.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Sylvia was a middle child who was born between two
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: sets of fraternal twins. Oh wow, also known as non
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: identical twins.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I can imagine that would have been an
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: interesting household.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very busy. I also feel like that would be
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: kind of sad.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Sad what was said, I don't know.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Both of her siblings have this like twin that they're
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: probably like really close to, and then it's just her.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Oh maybe, I guess.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just feel like that could almost
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: make you feel left maybe.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Well, her older siblings being Daniel and Diana, who were
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: two years older, and her younger siblings Benny and Jenny
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: who were one year younger.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Benny and Jenny.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Benny and Jenny love little ditty about Bennie and Jenny
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: love that right. So Jenny was a bit different though.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: She was a bit different than the others as she
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: ended up suffering from polio when she was younger, which
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: affects her nervousness jeez. Yeah, and it caused her to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: have one of her legs weaker than the other and
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: because of this, her weaker leg gave her a noticeable
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: limp and she ended up having to wear a brace
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: to improve her walking ability. Yeah. Now. Lester and Elizabeth
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: loved their kids and their family. However, their lifestyle didn't
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: leave much for a stable family lifestyle together. The two
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of them were carnival workers. They would travel around Indiana
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: selling candy and drinks at carnivals at a concession stand,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: making their living. Now, a traveling life put a lot
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: of strain in their kids and their ability to function
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: and support five children. That's a lot of children, yes,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: so understandably. So to help out with the family, Lester
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and Elizabeth's son would travel to carnivals alongside their parents
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to help out of the job and even earn more
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: of an income and a job and a lifestyle that
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: the couple didn't want to subject their children to if
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: they didn't have to. So Sylvia and Jenny were discouraged
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: from joining them in the carnival life. While Diana, I'm
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: not too sure about her younger years, she wasn't mentioned
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: too much in this. I'm sure she was discouraged as
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: well while the boys wrote. But Diana eventually would move
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: out and get married and stuff on her own, so
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: she generally wasn't involved in a lot of this when
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: she was kind of age because she's the older she's
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the older daughter, eldest daughter. Yeah, So the hopes was
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: that they would earn a good education sort of thing
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: and go further in life rather than just having to
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: work a carnival life, you know, get out of the
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: carnival industry, live in safer environment sort of thing. So
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: while their parents send siblings were on the road, both
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: sisters generally and frequently stayed with their relatives until you know,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: the family returned. In their teenage years, Sylvia began growing
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: into a caring young woman, even though she was taking
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: to the road with her parents, or even though she
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: wasn't taking to the road with her parents. She would
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: earn money when she could with babysitting, running errands, and
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: doing chores for friends and neighbors, money that she would
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: happily share with her parents to help out. Right, It's
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: just like that little hearted gold situation, you know.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's so terrific because I just feel like
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: any money I would have made it as a kid,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like babysitting was like mine.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Which is so like, No, I totally get that. It's like, no,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: this is my money, I earned it. Earn your own, bitch, But.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: That's so like, obviously she's a better person than us.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean generally, once you hit lower income families,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot more of that like sharing
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: that since so yeah, which which is really heartwarming to see. Now.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Sylvia was a confident and lively girl with long, wavy,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: light brown hair flowing below her shoulders. She was beautiful,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: but would never smile, showing her teeth, and it was
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: always with her mouth closed because she was missing a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: two up front tooth. It was knocked out by an
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: accident with her brother when they're rough housing.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Is kids, Oh okay.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So she loved music and she loved listening to the
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Beatles in particular. But Sylvia was particularly fond of her family.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: But because of how sweet she was, she had earned
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the nickname Cookie from her friends and family Cookie Cookie.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's horrible.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Now, she was particularly fond of her family, like I said,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: but more specific her younger sister Jenny. Now Jenny was
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the one who had suffered from pole right now, Jenny
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: had grown a bit timid and insecure during sorry due
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: to her weak legs. But Sylvia didn't like to see
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: her sister down like that, so on occasions, the two
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: of them would do things like go out to a
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: local skating rink and Sylvia would hold Jenny's hand and
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: help her skate along the rink while she stood on
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: her strong foot.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I just feel like you're just describing
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: this perfect person, and I'm not going to be happy
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: about something.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, you are not going to be happy about.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Something because Sylvia just sounds perfect.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yep uh Okay, that's all I gotta say about that
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: so far.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So, by June of nineteen sixty five, two girls were
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: basically kidnapped by their mother in Indianapolis. Now, I don't
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: want to put too much stress in the word kidnapped.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Just well yeah, because I was like, what do you
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: mean by that?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Well, much of the family struggles and turmoil affected Lester
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and Elizabeth's relationship significantly. Now, like I said, they weren't
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: they weren't really kidnapped, they weren't in danger from their mother.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: She basically just like decided that she was going to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: take full custs on her own term sort of thing.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: She's just like Kate girls in mind, and she just took.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Off, So taking them from the dad kind of yes.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And I mean that sort of situation we
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: see a lot today even still, which is kind of sucks,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: but I mean it's it is what it is now. Elizabeth, however,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: ended up being jailed for shoplifting on July third, and
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: it was clearly because of the struggles and financial situations
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: and everything. So the next day, Lester ended up rolling
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: into town after figuring out where his wife went with
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: the kids. He began to look for his girls by
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: giving descriptions of them, and Jenny, being fairly unique with
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: her leg was fairly easy to find in the town,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and he was able to figure out where they were
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: now at a local home of the This is a
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: really weird name to say. I've been struggling with it
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: so much. Baniski's no, yes, Benisky's I did say it right, Sorry.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Right on.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So his daughters ended up making some friends with some
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: local girls, Darlene and Paula, and so they went back
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: to their home at thirty eight to fifty East New
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: York Street, where they drank sodas and listened to records,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: so kind of just chilling, having a good time. Now,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: when Lester arrived, he spoke with the girl's mother, Gertrude Biniski. Now,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the two struck up a conversation and over the course
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: of them talking, the idea of Gertrude taking in Sylvia
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: and Jenny as borders came up. Lester and Elizabeth had
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: reconciled since he had been in town and they were
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: going to They decided they were going to travel the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: US Carnival circuit once she got out on out of jail,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and they needed a place for them to stay because
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the girls weren't going to be traveling with them. So
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: what they had the situation was Diana, the oldest, was
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: now out on her own. The two brothers were staying
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: with the grandparents, and they just needed a spot for
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the two girls.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Now and did they really know these people.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: No, they didn't, but the girls it was like, what
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: better place than a family home with girls who had
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: daughters already and they just made friends.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Situation, I guess, yeah.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: So they discussed the details and arrangement was made for
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: the girls to stay with Gertrude, and Lester would send
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: twenty dollars per week for the girls for room and board.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Nice. I wonder if that would have been a lot
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: back then.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: It definitely would have been a good amountain in sixty five,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: and we definitely could look up like inflation if.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: You want, well, yeah, now, like what the heck would
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that buy you?
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, one sec We're gonna pause it and look up inflation. Okay,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: so quick Google search tells me it's about one hundred
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: and eighty US dollars equivalent.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, A.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Food definitely a lot of food, you know, nice, bad,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And that's per week. So Lester, however, missed out on
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: one important thing. He didn't go inside Gertrude's home before
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: leaving the girls to stay there. He did not know
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: the conditions he was leaving his daughters to live in.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, I was like, I kind of asked a question earlier,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, I shouldn't be judging, Like maybe
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: this is fine, but I just don't know if this
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: is gonna be fine.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Why don't you think this is gonna be fine?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just so skeptical of this whole case.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I just like, am waiting, what do you mean in
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: go in the house. He didn't go in the house,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: go in the house.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I guess he didn't think he needed to.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: That's too trusting.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very trusting and a very trusting decision
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: that was going to turn into a very big mistake.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Shit, Okay, I'm not ready.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: No, you're not.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not ready. I don't think at all.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Well. Gertrude's home was disgusting and had lacked basic necessities. Inside,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: there was no stove or microwave, only a single hot
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: played on the counter for cooking. The only things Gertrude
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: kept in her pantry were things like bread and crackers.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Most of the surfaces in the home were caked with
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: thick layers of dirt and grime. There was only enough
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: plates and eating utensils for three people. Now, utensils for
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: three people may may not be much of an issue,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: you know, just wash it whatever you got four or
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: five people. Sure. However, Gertrude had seven kids of her
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: own and now was taking in two more. Oh, there's
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: at least ten people in the house.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. I didn't realize. Sure. I thought was thinking, okay, well,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: it's just the two girls in her But.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: No, she had seven kids of her own. And finally,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: among all these conditions, there were only enough beds for
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: about half the people in the house. The rest slept
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: on the floors. They would actually rotate, you know, the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: girls like I get the bed one night, you get
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: it the next night, next night.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Someone that's not terrible. I'm honestly surprised that the girls
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to even stay there. Then.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was so much the girls wanted
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: to stay there. It was more of a just an opportunity.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: A rose. Dad didn't know anything about the inside, like
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: oh sure, yeah, stay here, and the girls are just
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: like okay, oh no, I mean I don't know for sure,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: but that's what it seems like. Okay, So now I'm
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: not going to get into Gertrude's backstory here though, because well,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: first off, fuck her. She's a bitch, and that's putting
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: it lightly. So Gertrude is Gertrude.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, we don't like her at all.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: No, I will say is she was a sickly, frail
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: woman with sunken in eyes and had a skeletal appearance.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I want to I do want to highlight sickly frail woman.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: She had many different undiagnosed ill illnesses, thank you. She
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: had very poor hygiene and was described as a haggard chainsmoker.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Fun.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah great, now, Thankfully this plan was only a summer plan.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: It was only a summer arrangement that once Lester and
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth would return from the carnival circuit, they'll be picking
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: up their two daughters in November.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: So that's a long time though, it is. And he
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: didn't go into the house. Sorry, I'm just.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Like what, he didn't go into the house.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: What? Okay?
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So once the girls moved in, they began settling into
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the family rather well, which is good. They attended Sunday
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: School and eventually being going to high school as well,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: and just got along with the Beninski kids as well.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Due to some household they would do some household chores,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and they would even listen to like records and kind
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: of chill listening to their favorite music, drinking sodas once
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: in a while. Right, it wasn't all that bad, I mean,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: shitty living conditions, but they were enjoying just you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: kind of decent chill life for the first week. Now,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: aside from, like I said, the terrible living conditions, it
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: was just life as normal until Lester had actually failed
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: to deliver a twenty dollars boarding check on the second week. Now,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: this pissed Gertrude off, so she took it out on
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Sylvia and Jenny. She had the two of the girls
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: bend over upstairs over the bed and drop their pants
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: and she would spank them and beat their bare ass
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: with leather belt and shouted, quote and this is right
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: from the trial. I took care of you two little
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: bitches for a week for nothing.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Holy yeah wow.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And the twenty dollars for that week came well like
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a day late, probably came the next day.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, I'm pissed already.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Lester and Betty came into town the next day
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and delivered that check. They were just a day late.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: They came into town.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they came in, they delivered the check.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Well did the girls not be like, oh, we need
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to get the shit out of here.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: No, they didn't.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Probably because they didn't want to be
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a burden to their parents. This is terrible.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Neither of the girls made any mention about the beatings.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: It could be presumably they didn't want to bother their parents,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: or maybe they thought like it could be out of
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: fear of Gertrude doing it again, or maybe they thought
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it was an isolated incident. Who knows, but for whatever reason,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: they didn't make any mention of it to their parents. Dang, yep.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And if it was out of fear, you know, thinking
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: if we say something, you know she could do something,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So just keep her mouth shut and may hopefully it's
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: an isolated incident. Yeah, that wasn't any use. It wasn't
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: an isolated incident. Their silence didn't help. Actions had already
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: been set in motion, and Gertrude would begin her brutal
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: treatment of the girls.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because I'm thinking this is just like that's
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the first herd flag.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, before I go any further, I do want to
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: point out that Gertrude never abused her own children.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad you said that. I was actually gonna
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: ask you, No.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: She never abused her children, never had a history of
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: anything like that.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: What the heck? It was just probably too much. She
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: should never have agreed to this. Yep, she's doing it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: for the money because she's feeding them on what crackers.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Pretty much, and she's a chainsmoker. And later in the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: trials she claimed to have been high for all this
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: and doesn't remember anything. So right on, I know, right.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So the next week, Sylvia and Jenny went through the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: neighborhood garbage. They went through the garbage collecting recycling bottles,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Coca Cola bottles and stuff. I remember as a kid,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: like doing soccer as a kid, and I'd go around
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the soccer field when I wasn't playing, collecting cans off
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the sides and stuff, and you know, you go turn
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: it in get some candy. It's exactly what these girls
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: were doing. They're going through neighborhood garbage, finding bottles, collecting them.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: They go get their refund and they went out and
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: bought candy. Now, when they came home with the can candy,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Gertrude accused them of stealing it. And when Sylvia explained
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: how they got in the candy, you know, by finding
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: the recycling and going in exchanging it, Gertrude accused her
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: of lying and made her bend over the bed again,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and as before, she beat her, but this time with
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: a quarter inch paddle.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Wow for basically doing absolutely nothing?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah wrong?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Like nothing wrong?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a quarter inch thick paddle. I should say. Now,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: anything I said or anything I read, everyone says that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: it is a frat style paddle. I have no idea
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: what that means. I don't think anyone out there knows
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: what it means. Any podcasts that listened to on this,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: everyone's just oh, it's a frat style paddle and moves on.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: What the fuck does that mean? Please explain?
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have an absolute idea what that means.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I'm questioning what the fuck is that? So I couldn't
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: find what a frat style paddle is?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: But anyways, style paddle.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: That's what everyone keeps saying it is. Okay, I what
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: the fuck is that?
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Well, it probably doesn't even super matter. We know that
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: she's a bitch and she beat them again.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so anyways. On another occasion in August, both girls
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: were beaten approximately fifteen times on the back with the
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: same paddle after the girls had come home from church
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: a church function, and Gertrude's daughter Paula, said she was
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: disgusted with the amount of food the sisters ate at
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: the dinner that was being held there. Now, this was
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: clearly due to a lack of food that they were
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: receiving at the home.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they were just hungry.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the girls were seriously hungry, and they were presenting
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: with a good meal by the church. Of course they're
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: going to indulge. It's not like they're committing a sin
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: of gluttony. They're just literally hungry and ate a good meal.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, which, yeah, which is I'm sure that
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the church would have wanted.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Them to do exactly and they got beaten for it
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: by Gertrude. So I can see here, you're shifting your
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: arms across, You're sitting like up straight, you're really stiff,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and you keep shifting in your chair.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortabation and warned me.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe, okay, next time, I'll just let you go.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Well, for whatever reason, Gertrude had begun to focus more
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: of her abuse, almost solely on Sylvia. This initial abuse
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: included several different means of beatings, starvation, and when she
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: did get food, it would often be forcing her to
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: eat spoiled food, even out of garbage cans.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not too sure why the initial abuse began
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: or sorry, not the initial abuse, but the abuse began
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to target Sylvia more so than Jenny. I do know
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: that Sylvia began getting a little bit confrontational with Paula,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: not necessarily as like she's a bitch, and she's a bitch.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It's like their teenage kids who are just living in
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: a house too close together.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: The well, she is older, and then yeah it's Jenny.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Right, sorry, Jenny's the younger one.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, Jenny also had I don't know, the yeah, the
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: limp and stuff, so she.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Could have yet not been targeting her for that. There's
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of different accusations out there about why and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: there we don't really know why, but the facts remained
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: that she did solely began to target Sylvia. So Sylvia
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: was literally beginning to endure a literal hell at the
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: hands of this woman.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Okay.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Sylvia would also begin to be the subject of humiliation.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: At one point, she claimed to have a boyfriend in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Long Beach, someone who she had apparently met the spring
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: before when her family was still in California. Gertrude Snidley
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: asked if she had ever done anything with a boy,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: and Sylvia, being innocent and like fucking pure hearted as
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: she is, had no idea what she was talking about,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and she's like, I guess so, and recounted stories of
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: going like skating and going to the park in the
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: beach with some boys and stuff. So it eventually came
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: up in conversation that she had laid under a blanket
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: with her boyfriend, and Gertrude asked, why did you do that, Sylvia,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to which Sylvia didn't really have a response. She was
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: just kind of struggling with I don't know. So several
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: days later, the same topic continued and Gertrude looked at
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Sylvia and said, quote, you're certainly getting big in the stomach, Sylvia,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: looks like you're gonna have a baby. She then told
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: her and the other girls that whenever you did something
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: with a boy, they were sure to have a baby,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: and then proceeded to kick Sylvia in the genitals repeatedly
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: until she was done with it, during which Gertrude's daughter
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Paula joined in, knocked her off the chair that she
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: was sitting in and shouted at her, you ain't fit
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: to sit in the chair.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Holy, So she's just teaching her kids to be right
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: assholes as well.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, and the thing is it's gonna be repeating,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: is Sylvia. She's a small, frail woman. She doesn't really
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: have the strength to do a lot of these things.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Or sorry, Gertrude, Okay, Gertrude is a small, frail woman. Okay, okay,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And she doesn't really have the strength to do much
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: of this stuff. So she's kind of like training her kids. Yeah,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: she's almost egging her kids on to do it for her.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: But these are like the one like Paula was like
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a friend right initially, Yes, holy frick I hate this,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Oh I tell well, yeah, I'm just like, okay.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's brutal, trust me. This woman is fucking vile.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Fuck her.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Well, like, I just don't even understand the point of this,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Like what's the point of this?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Like why there's no answer?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You're just a disgusting piece of shit.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, space Okay, good to know. Now, next door to
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the family, a couple by the name of Phyllis and
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Raymond Vermillion moved in. Phyllis saw the number of children
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Gertrude was caring for and thought she must be good
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: with kids, and came to the conclusion that she might
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: be great for a babysitter for their children. Now, yeah,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: don't do that.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Run away.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Don't look at an individual and say, hey, you got
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: ten kids, you can take more. That's answer, right.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like that person has a lot on their
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Plate'll find someone else exactly.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So don't do that.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: And also, was the outside of the house not disgusting?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it was, or maybe not tear it not
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: as bad as the inside. I have no idea, Okay,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: but anyways, the Vermillion's arranged for a backyard barbecue so
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: the two families could meet up, you know, have some fun,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: get to know each other, and like actually mingle a
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: little bit. Before you know, any babysitting occurred, which is
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: a good idea.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: That is very good. Yeah, like it. It's basically like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: going inside the.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: House pretty much. Yeah, which someone somewhere should have fucking done,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: but they didn't.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I'll get over it.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: No you won't. Now, during this barbecue, Phyllis noticed Sylvia
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: had quite the pronounced black eye, and upon this noticing, Paula,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: the daughter proudly announced to Phyllis that she was the
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: one who gave it to her. Then, with Gertrude watching
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: and not doing a fucking thing about it, Paula approached
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Sylvia with a glass of steaming water and threw it
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in Sylvia's.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Face in front of these new neighbors, in.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Front of the neighbors, in front of everybody. Just didn't
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: give a shit and threw it in her face. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: neither of the Vermilions reported this incident to authorities. Nothing
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: was done.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Why why not? Why would they just like hold that
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: to themselves.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, they're.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: All like, okay, yeah, they're not gonna babysit our kids,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: but then did nothing.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Wow, like they're just as bad.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and forewarning.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: That's a theme of them being just as bad.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Of people just being being just as bad.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Oh what is up with that?
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Let's just say pretty much, no one did anything. I
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: feel like.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: That's something that just happens so often. People just like
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: turn about. What is it called a blinded mind I
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: but or then or it's not even that, it's just
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like they're probably in their brain like oh
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: it's not that bad, or like justifying things right when
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't be.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: But if you're ever worried or just like skeptical, like
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like you should just do something rather than
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: not if.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Something is off, something is off, Yeah, do something, call someone,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: tell someone, have a conversation about it, stand up. So
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: much of the escalation began to often involve other kids
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: in the house taking part in Sylvia's beatings. Eventually, it
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: wasn't just the household taking part, but their friends and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: other kids in the neighborhood began taking part as well.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Like I said that theme of people just not doing anything,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: in fact they're taking part. So, for instance, Gertrude Paula
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: and a neighborhood boy named Randy Gordon Lepper forced fed
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Sylvia a hot dog and then loaded it. They loaded
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: it with as much random fucking condiments they could find
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: the house, things like mustard, ketchup, spices, fucking whatever was
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: in the fridge, and forced it down her throat and
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: doing it so, doing so as quickly as possible, to
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: the point she gagged and vomited up all over the place.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Everything that they forced her to swallow, she just vomited
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: it right back up.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: From there they continued and forced her to consume the
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: regurgitated hot dog and the bile that she had vomited out.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, it got worse.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Oh it's just starting.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, but oh my gosh, I just can't believe people
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: are joining in. But then it's like of an adult's
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: there and stuff, and these other just kids, like well,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: they're not just necessarily the kids.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Right, there's kids, and there's teenagers, and as far as
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I can tell, there's anyone raging between the age of
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: twelve to I think eighteen involved in this neighborhood. Kids
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: would come and take part more and more and be involved. Often.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Sylvia was being used as a punching bag and means
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: of quote unquote practicing their judo. Whether they were actually
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: taking judo classes or just throwing her around and calling
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: it judo, I couldn't find and clarify. But Sylvia was
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: being thrown into walls on the floor, being choked out
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and knocked out unconscious on a regular basis.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Good Lord surprised didn't run away yeah.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Now, in frustration. In frustration her only means of retaliation,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Sylvia apparently told some classmates at the high school she
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: was attending that Stephanie and Paula were prostitutes. Now, I
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: want to pause toure a minute and clarify something really quick.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I am using the word prostitute. Sex workers is the
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: appropriate term to use. The word prostitute is demeaning. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: the only reason I am using it here is because
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: that is a specific word they chose to use in
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: a slanderous way. In this case. This is the term
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: they called each other in accusations. It's slanderous. I just
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: think it's important to understand that. So I am using
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: it because that is the word they used in the case.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Well, and then this is quite a long
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: time ago to that. Maybe at that time that was
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the more known term too.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Potentially right, but regardless, it's the term they used. Yeah,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: that's why I'm using it, Okay.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Fair.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: So Stephanie found out about this when a boy jokingly
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: propositioned her and then told her that Sylvia had spread
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: the rumor. Stephanie's response was when she got home to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: punch Sylvia in the face, to which Sylvia began apologizing. However,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Stephanie began to cry upon this as well, so that
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: both girls are now crying Stephanie and Sylvia. Now Stephanie's boyfriend,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: learning of the incident, learning that Sylvia spread a rumor Sylvia,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: made his girlfriend cry. The fifteen year old boyfriend, Coy Hubbard,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: went over to the house and attacked Sylvia, slapping her,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: punching her, banging her head against walls, and flipping her
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: backwards onto the floor. I'm only presuming which were quote
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: unquote Judo moves. When Gertrude found out, she also beat Sylvia,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: using the paddle again to do so. The whole rumor thing, though,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: about being being a sex worker, is only coming from Stephanie.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: She very well could have made it up just to
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: get Sylvia beaten. There is no evidence pointing towards her
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: ever spreading any rumor.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Oh jeez, okay, well, and like I mean, these injuries
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and stuff have to be shown or teachers not seeing
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: this in stuff at school.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they were, but they weren't saying shit.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Because I just I can't believe that Sylvia didn't like
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: go to a teacher. Yeah, Oh, because that's just so sad.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: To she most likely terrified, though.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: There are people elgre that could have helped her, possibly.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: But for anything she does, she's getting beaten. Could you
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: imagine how brutally she would have gotten beaten if she
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: went and told an authority figure.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean if they didn't help her right away,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: they'd have to just like remove her. But who knows
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: if that would have happened exactly.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: So she's literally, quite literally just terrified, living through hell.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know what to do, and she's young. She's young, yeah,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: she's sixteen. Yeah, So Gertrude began while she already began
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: to accuse Sylvia of promiscuity with her boyfriend in the
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: past spring incident thing, but now things got even heavier
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: on this front. It was a normal thing for her
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: to accuse her of being a sex worker and like
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I said, eight quote unquote prostitute. Another addition to her
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: torture was added when it was discovered Sylvia had stolen
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: another student's clothing for gym class at school. Now Sylvia
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: needed the clothes to participate in gym class and certainly
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't being provided with the clothes at home from Gertrude,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: so she resorted to the means that she the only
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: means she had to get them on her own, which
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: was stealing them means. Of course, that led to more
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: torture at home and started a trend of putting out
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: lit cigarettes on Sylvia's body.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's still lot.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. From there on, anyone smoking a cigarette in the
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: house would put it out on her skin as a
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: reminder not to steal and lie. As you can imagine,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: she endured the excess of hundreds of over one hundred
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: burns this way. After the theft incident, Gertrude decided Sylvia
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: would be leaving, would not be leaving again and going
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: to school. She would stay in the house and endure
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: absolute hell no.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So just removed her from school completely.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Yep, and she is not to leave the house now, Okay, Now,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: there was on one incident where Paula beat Sylvia in
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the face, targeting her eyes and mouth specifically, which sus
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: such force that she broke her own wrist in striking
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Sylvia's face.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Holy crap, and of.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Course would later once once has a cast on it,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: she would use the cast to further beat Sylvia even more.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: What an idiot.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like, these people are absolutely fucking horrendous. What's
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: even worse though, I mean, yes, these people are doing
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: absolutely fucking horrendous things. But get this, The extremely fucked
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: up thing about this is that while she was in
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the hospital getting the cast put on, she was bragging
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: to the medical staff about how she broke her wrist.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: None of the medical staff did a fucking thing about it. Nothing.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, this is just like a trend. It's just gonna
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: be a trend. Oh yeah, And like, had the parents
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: don't come back and stuff at all anymore times, I.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Don't think they had. They might have come back once
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: or twice or something, but they certainly had no idea
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: what was going on. I couldn't find anything on how
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: often they were returning or anything, but if they did return,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: they certainly had no inclination of what was happening.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: To be at the hospital getting your cast on bragging
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: about that is so disgusting.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now I could potentially see the staff being like, oh,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: she's blowing it out of proportion. Maybe she's gotten a
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: fight in school and punched some girl and broke her wrist. Yeah,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: like that might be.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Acture or something.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: But that reaction is a trend. It's happening more than
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: just this case. It's going to be happening farther. We'll
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: discuss it. Well.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: There are so many instances in many of our cases
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: that I just feel like if people had paid attention
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: or like us, a gut feeling or something like, shit
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: could be stopped.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: If people even did the bare minimum, shit could have
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: changed and stopped, and he could have saved something.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Now.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Gertrude would also make false claims to her own kids
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: on a whim that either she herself or one of
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: them have been receiving direct insults from Sylvia in hopes
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: to provoke them into attacking Sylvia. And again, like I say,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: it's probably because she's too weak to beat Sylvia herself,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: so she's trying to get her kids or whoever to
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: do it for her. It's also reported that the neighborhood
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: kids that were coming around began getting charged five cents
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: apiece to see the display of Sylvia being humiliated, beaten, burned,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and torture. She quite literally was charging for people to
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: see this.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: And there wasn't one of them that literally would go
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: home and tell their parents about any of this.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Nope. There is one incident which we'll touch on here, but.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: That's mind blowing.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Now. I don't know if it's like a
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: mob mentality or something that started going on or what
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the fuck. I just can't understand or fathom how a
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: group of individuals, kids or adults could continue to do
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: this and not think, hey, something's wrong here. But it
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: is absolutely fucked up, Like maybe I.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Won't be a piece of shit for like five minutes
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: and actually do something like a kind human Maybe.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: But maybe not, because clearly they didn't. Now. At one point,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: the humiliation that Sylvia endured included Gertrude forcing Sylvia to
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: undress completely in front of a group of the teens
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: in the living room and forcefully made her masturbate with
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: a glass pepsi bottle while everyone watched.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Why yep, wow wow wow.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Now, due to the increased frequency in the brutality of
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the torture Sylvia was subject to, she was gradually becoming incontinent,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: which is a medical diagnosis for losing control of your
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: bladder due to trauma, essentially, which is a very normal reaction.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: So she began wetting the bed, and this enraged Gertrude.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Even more.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Jeez.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Sylvia was then denied any access to the bathroom,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: being forced to quite literally just wet her herself as
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: a form of punishment for her own incontinence, which was
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: quite literally Gertrude's fault in the first place.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I know you're being sarcastic, but fucking know, it doesn't
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: mean yeah, very sarcastical.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: It makes absolutely no sense.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I know. Uh. It was on October six when Gertrude
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: decided Sylvia wasn't good enough to live with the rest
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: of them and threw her into the basement and locked
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: the door.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Holy crap, Holy crap, what the frick is I like
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: her sister? I wonder even doing At this point a.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Lot of the time, Jenny was also being forced to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: take part in said beatings, and if she didn't, she
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: would be told that if you don't take part, I'm
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: going to beat you instead.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: But still, like, how did she not say anything to anyone?
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Where is she going to turn?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. There just has to be someone that
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: they can turn to.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: We'll touch on it a little bit. Just just hold
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: those horses for a minute or two. So Sylvia began
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: to live down in the basement with no bathroom, no bet,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: no food or water. She was left often nude. Occasionally
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Gertrude would throw a couple of crackers or something down,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: some water or something to Sylvia, but that was about it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: She was left to defecate urinate in corners on herself
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: wherever she was. Often she was tied up and she
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: couldn't even go to a corner. It was left to
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: do what she needed to do where she was now.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: During her captivity in the basement, Gertrude began a regiment
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: of what she called cleansing. She would bathe Sylvia in scalding.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Hot water whoa.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And Sylvia would have salt rubbed all over her body
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: and into her lacerations and burns and all. This was
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: done not just by Gertrude, but by the help of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: her kids and other neighborhood kids who were around as well. Wow,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: this is a whole new level of fucked up.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Well I cannot even comprehend that someone would ever do
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: that to someone I know, like I, ah, yeah, I
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: don't even know what to say.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah that was my reaction. I now you
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: know why I was having such a hard time researching
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Well, this is like a living human being, and she
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: sounds like she was just like the sweetest, most pure thing. Yeah,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: and like I just oh God, like I just I
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: can't comprehend this. I know, like that would just like
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: oh kill Like I can't imagine the pain that that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: would be causing.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Like, I can't imagine even I can't imagine being in
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Sylvia's shoes going through any of this. I can't imagine
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: being involved in taking part in any of this. I
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: can't imagine being someone who knows anything about this and
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: not doing anything about it. The whole situation is so
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: fucking that.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: They got away with it is just fucked.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: And this goes on for a total of four months,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: well four months.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Four months that someone could have had the opportunity to stop.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: This and they didn't.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah. Now, sometime around this period, Jenny, Sylvia's younger sister,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: managed to get in contact with their older sister, Diana, who,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: like I said, was married and had a family of
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: her own. Jenny told the horrors of what was going
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: on and asked Diana to contact the police and come
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: and rescue them. Diana didn't do that. Though she was
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: thinking that Jenny was just upset for being punished or
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: disciplined and was making up stories in an attempt to
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: try and live with her sister instead.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Dead serious?
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Like you're kid you what?
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Dead serious? However, Diana didn't just do nothing though. She
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: went to visit her sisters. She went to see firsthand,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: and when she was met at the door with Gertrude,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Gertrude refused to allow her into the home. Her first
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: excuse first hand came to her mind, was that Lester,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: their father, told her not to allow Diana into the home,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: and she threatened to call the police and have Diana
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: arrested for trespassing if she didn't leave.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And Diana just like believed this and probably was mad
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: at her dad and left.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: No, she was shocked and confused. Diana did leave because
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I mean she was being threatened for trespassing.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Right right right.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: She didn't go far. She hid nearby until she spotted
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Jenny outside, so she approached Jenny to talk to her.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Jenny quickly told Diana, her older sister, that she was
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: not allowed to talk to her and quickly ran away,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: clearly in fear of Gertrude.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay, so then what did Diana do.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously concerned for the situation like this, Diana contacted
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: social services.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good thing.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: That's definitely a good thing. Now, when a social worker arrived,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Gertrude and I told the social worker that she had
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: kicked sil out of the house for being a disgusting
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: prostitute and that Sylvia had run off somewhere, so she's
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: not even in the house now. Jenny corroborated this story
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: and told the social worker that Sylvia had indeed run away,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: and she did so under the threat from Gertrude that
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: she would be strip naked and joined Sylvia in the
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: basement if she did say anything about what was happening.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: And so the social worker just was like.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the social worker, being such a good social worker,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: returned to their office and fouled a report stating no
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: more calls or visits needed to be made to the
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Bazinski residence.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Wow, good job, that is right, that is really doing
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: your job.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: For fucking round of applause for that fucking cunt.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Sorry for you, Ben, But yeah, like that, did she
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: even go in the house and look at anything. No,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: how is this nasty lady even so believable to people?
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I just I'm I'm envisioning this disgusting human being that
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: just like you could hardly look at without being just disgusted,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: and these people are believing her.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Yep, every little fucking step along the way.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Now, Also around this time, one of the neighborhood kids
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: who had been by to see Sylvia, a twelve year
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: old girl named Judy Duke, went home and told her
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: mother they were beating and kicking Sylvia.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: So one little girl did decide to tell her mom.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: This is the isolated incident that I mentioned that someone
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: did say something thank you, to which their mother replied,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that's what happens when someone was punished.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, good job.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Probably yeah, not that, not that I'm saying that their
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: response is okay, but probably assuming the kid was blowing
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: it out of proportion and just like, oh yeah, the
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: kid probably was just getting a spanking or something, thinking
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it's okay the mom's response, don't get
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: me wrong there, but probably just assuming that the kid,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: being young, was just you know, blowing it down of proportion.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: So regardless, didn't fucking do anything, didn't fucking say anything.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Let it be again?
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: And then where did the older sister go? Just let
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: it be too? Well, she's called a social or social workers,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: so she's done.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Her job pretty much as far as I could tell.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, what's she gonna do?
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I would find a freaking way, man, Yeah,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I would just rage, I feel like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: But then I don't know, maybe it would get me
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: in jail. Who knows. But hashtag almost like worth it?
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. So all the while, Sylvia continued to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: endure every ounce of torture she was put through. One occasion,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Gertrude and her twelve year old son, John Junior, rubbed
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: urine and feces from Gertrude's one year old son's diaper
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: on to Sylvia's face and in her mouth while she
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: was tied up in the basement. And then she gave
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: her a cup half filled with water and stated that
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: water was all she would get for the remainder of
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Yeah, who is there a husband?
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: No, she's a single mom. She claimed to be dating
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: some dudes still the last name right. She would often
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: go by Gertrude, right, rather than the Kasinski or whatever
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: the fuck her last name is. I can't remember at
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: the top of my head, but she often claimed to
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: go by that last name and that he was overseas
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: in some fucking war or something. But her most recent kid,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: her youngest one year old, had the right last name,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: so with probably just some fling with some dude. But
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: the rest of her kids all had the same name
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: from another guy. But she went through multiple marriages and
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: she was currently a single mother of seven.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, not explain it, yeah, okay.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: So Gertrude in late October eventually decided to allow Sylvia
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: to sleep upstairs again on the condition that she learned
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: not to wet herself. That's the condition now. Jenny, trying
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: to do the right thing and being a good sister,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: took the opportunity to sneak her severely malnourished and dehydrated
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: sister a glass of water before bed, and unfortunately, the
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: following morning, Gertrude found that Sylvia had wet the bed again.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Oh dang it, yep.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: So as a punishment, Sylvia was forced to once again
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: insert an empty glass bottle into herself in front of
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Gertrude and was and others and sent back into the basement.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Wow. See okay, I just can't I guess I ask
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: that too, because I can't fathom that seven that she
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: could that someone would want to even have sex with
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: her seven times, Like yeah, I just think it's just
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: so disgusting, Like she's so I've just really painted a
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: disgusting picture in my head here.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Well, there is. There's a lot of theories going around
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: with because she often accused Sylvia of her promiscuity and
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: quote unquote being a prostitute as much as she did
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: that she's projecting a lot of these things onto Sylvia
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: because that's what she was.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: What do you mean, sorry, that Gertrude was.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: In fact the promiscuous one, That Gertrude was previously a
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: sex worker, That Gertrude was all these things that she's
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: accusing Silvia of being.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Oh I see, okay.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Is in fact what she is or was?
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Huh.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: There's no evidence for that. I want to say that clearly,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: but those are theories.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: And discussions, Okay.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: So shortly after being sent to the basement, Gertrude was
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: then ordered to return upstairs to the kitchen like this
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: is like pretty much immediately sort of thing, and then
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: demanded to strip naked.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Sylvia was ordered to come up yes, okay, sorry I
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: thought you said Gertrude.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Gertrude ordered her Sorry, I might have said that wrong,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: But Gertrude ordered Sylvia to return upstairs to the kitchen
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: and demanded her to strip naked. Then Gertrude said to Sylvia,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: quote and again this is directly from the trial. You
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: have branded my daughters. Now I'm going to brand you.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Oh no okay. I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's okay.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Well, you saw the Instagram picture, right, Oh I.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Don't think I don't. I liked it, but I don't
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: think I really looked at it, which is so terrible.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Well, Gertrude took a glowing hot needle and began to
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: carve the words I'm a prostitute and proud of it
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: into Sylvia's abdomen.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: That's so much Yeah, like, okay, first of all, that's
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: so brutal, But then why are we like a whole
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: bringing paragraph and or a freaking.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Because fuck Gertrude, that's why she's a bitch.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, Gertrude, being as weak as she was, she
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: was unable to finish the branding though she, like I said,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: rather weak and frail, so she asked for help. When
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: she got about halfway through branding, she instructed one of
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: the neighborhood boys, present of fourteen year old Richard Dean Hobbes,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: to finish etching the words into Sylvia's skin, which he's like,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: okay and does it okay, yeah.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Wow, what an idiot.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and at one point apparently he needed to ask
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: how to spell prostitute because he's a fucking more on.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, now, well done.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Now Gertrude actually went to the store while he finishes
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: off or something like that. But once he finished it up,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: both him and ten year old Shirley Bozinski branded the
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: letter F S beneath Sylvia's left breast as well with
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: a red hot bolt. However, the ten year old Shirley
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: messed up the S and it resembles three now instead, So.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: They just decided to take matters in their own hands
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and go even further. Yeah, and they didn't need their
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: mom there, like this is.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Brand you're more well. The Hobbes guy, what was his name,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Richard Hobbes. He finished his branding, but then the ten
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: year old wanted to brand an S Honor, so he
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: helped to brand ANESS Honor, which turned into a three
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: because they couldn't do a fucking S. Yeah. So Gertrude
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: later taunted Sylvia about the branding, saying she would never
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: be able to marry due to the words carved on
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: her stomach. And I quote she said this to her, Sylvia,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do now? You can't get married? Now,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do? And a crying, sobbing
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Sylvia replied, I guess there's nothing I can do.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that breaks my heart.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely heartbreaking, because I know she's not just
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: talking about the branding, she's talking about the whole situation
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: she's in. Yeah, she knows that there's nothing she can do.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, my heart's pretty much in my stomach right now.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that night, Sylvia confided in her sister and
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: told her Jenny. And again this is a quote directly
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: from the trial, So this is what Jenny is recounting. Jenny,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: I know you don't want me to die, but I'm
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: going to die. I can tell it.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, ugh, I can't.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a fucking heavy case.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Ah.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: So Sylvia clearly wasn't the only one who was aware
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: that she was going to die soon, because Gertrude forced
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Sylvia to write a letter, a letter that said this
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: to mister and missusly Likens. I went with a gang
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: of boys in the middle of the night, and they
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: said they would pay me if I would give them something.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: So I got in the car and they all got
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: what they wanted. And when they got finished, they beat
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: me up and left sores on my face and all
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: over my body, and they also put on my stomach.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I'm prostitute and proud of it. I have done just
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: about everything that I could just to make Gerdy mad
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: and cause Gerty more money than she's got. I've tore
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: up new mattresses and pede on it. I've also cost
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Gerty doctor bills that she really can't pay, and made
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Gerty a nervous wreck and all of her kids. That
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: is a letter that Gertrude forced Sylvia to write in
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: anticipation that Sylvia was going to be dying soon. So
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: the letter clearly was intended to mislead any investigation and
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: her parents into thinking that she would run off with
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: some random fucking group of boys, and they did this
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: to her, although clearly, I mean, that letter is fucking
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: sus at best.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: It's well, it doesn't make any sense.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Does not make any sense. First of all, you're gonna
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: tell me that Sylvia is going to address her parents
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: to mister and missusly.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Likens you like, yeah right there, right, yeah, yeah, she
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: it ain't right, no, and I hope that it's very clear.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah. So now Gertrude was then deciding that
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: she was going to ditch Sylvia to die somewhere. She
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: was going to have her kids blindfold Sylvia and take
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: her to a local nearby forrest called Jimmy's Forest and
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: leave her there. She was literally going to abandon.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Her holy when she's this injured.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Yep. Now hearing these plans, though, Sylvia tried to escape
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: on October twenty fifth, but was far too weak to
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: get anywhere and was caught again. This enraged Gertrude, so
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: she forced fed Sylvia toast, which in my opinion is
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: her first kind of like panic moment, in like a
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: last ditch effort to try cover her ass by resuscitating
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Sylvia by giving her nourishment to being like shit, like
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: she's gonna be dying soon. Like I'm like, she's gonna die.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: What am I gonna do? I gotta I gotta try
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: and make her better. I gotta try and make her
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: not die.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: So so this is literally at this point, she's starting
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: to realize.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: In panic, I think, so that's my theory. So gross. However,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Sylvia couldn't eat it. The toast was too dry, and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: she was too dehydrated and far too weak. She couldn't eat.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: This only made Gertrude more angry, and she began to
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: beat Sylvia across the face with a curtain rod until
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: the curtain rod was misshapen and bent over extremely from
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: striking Sylvia repeatedly. By the morning of October twenty sixth,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Sylvia's condition worsened. She was unable to speak or maneuver herself.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: She was quite literally withering away again. Gertrude tried to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: feed Sylvia. She attempted to feed her a doughnut and
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: a glass of milk, but Sylvia was unable to eat
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: or drink, and Gertrude just threw her back in the basement.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: As a result, Shortly after, at five point thirty pm,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Sylvia was brought back up to one of the bedrooms,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: and Sylvia muttered a sentence wishing quote daddy was here,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Then one of the daughters, Stephanie, realized
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: that Sylvia had stopped breathing in a desperate attempt. She
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: began CPR and Gertrude began shouting at her faker, faker,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: and proceeded to beat her lifeless body with a book
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: what yes, what Yes. It didn't take long, though, for
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Gertrude to realize the situation at hand and that she
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: wasn't faking, and as it sunk in, she began to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: panic and she ordered Richard Hobbes to call the police.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Why Okay, this doesn't make any sense to me that
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: at this moment in time they would like realize they
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: fucked up?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Yep?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Like is that a joke? Like an what?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, doesn't make any fucking sense. Only the day before
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: she died of her injuries, starvation, dehydration, all this she
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: starts trying to feed her.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: After they've been doing this for four months? Like what
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: did they think was going to happen?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Right? Like? It makes no fucking sense. Like, it's absolutely
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: fucking horrendous that anyone could do this to anyone and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: think this way. Mm hmm uh So, anyways, police arrived
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: at approximately six thirty pm, and they were led to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Sylvia's brutally withered and mutilated body, and Gertrude was quick
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: to hand over the letters she had forced Sylvia to write.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: The day's probably oh my god. Gertrude also went on
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: to tell police how she had been trying to care
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: for Sylvia and doctoring her for more than an hour
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: before she passed away. She did all this, but her
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: first aid attempts were useless, and she passed away. Anyways, now,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: in the midst of everything that was going on, while
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: this was all happening, Jenny went up to one of
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: the officers and whispered to one of the police, quote,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: get me out of here and I will tell you everything.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, which I just feel like, why did
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: she not do that earlier? I mean, I get that
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: she was in this the worst position possible.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: She was, she.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Really was, Like, I'm not blaming her in any sense,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: but it's just like, gosh, could someone not have whispered
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: that to someone earlier?
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and total props to her because, like I said,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: she did reach out to her older sister.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: She didn't try try and she was.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Absolutely horrendous atmosphere with this absolutely horrendous, fucking monster of
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: what is supposed to be a human being.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: And I don't just mean her. There was just so
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: many like other children and stuff too, like h.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: No one did anything. Some people tried, and some people
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: were very restricted, but those who were not restricted didn't.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Try, Like I just and I can't even imagine. I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: feel like all these people, how can they even like
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: live their life fully after this when I realize what
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: they've done, I know, like, do they just go on
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: living like it's nothing or did it actually affect them?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: We'll touch on that a little bit at the end,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: at least a couple of them. So anyways, needless to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: say that the police learned about it and they realized
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: what was actually be going actually going on, and they
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: began making the arrest. Gertrude Paula, Stephanie, John Hobbes, and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Hubbard were arrested for murder. Other neighborhood children president at
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: the time, Mike Monroe, Randy Lepper, Duke, and Cicero were
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: arrested for injury to a person. An autopsy of Sylvia
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: showed over one hundred cigarette burns on her body, in
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: addition to various second and third degree burns. She had
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: multiple severe lacerations, contusions, and bruising muscle and nerve damage,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: was severely malnourished and dehydrated. She had bit through her lips,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: nearly severing each of them. Her vaginal cavity was nearly
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: swollen shut, and an examination did determine that her hymen
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: was still intact, not proving but largely discrediting Gertrude's assertion
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: that Sylvia was a prostitute and her insistent that she
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: was pregnant.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: So oh, and like, the person doing this autopsy must
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: have just been like appalled.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine, And like.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Does to see someone in that state that someone ELX
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: had done this to them.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine. I can understand decomposition or something is
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: going to be gross, but this, this, this is far
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: beyond just you know gross, right, This is.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Like wow, this would literally make you question the whole world.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is making me question the whole world.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm not even there at the autopsy. So the
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: official cause of death for Sylvia was brain swelling, internal
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: hemorrhaging of the brain, and shock.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Poor thing.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: And side note, it was actually Gertrude's daughter, Paula, who
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: was pregnant this whole time. Paula was three months pregnant
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: around the time of the initial start of Sylvia's torture
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: after a fling with a middle aged married man. Seriously, seriously,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: and did the mom know, I would assume yes. I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: mean by the time it's trials, So you're now talking
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: like four months later plus three months, so it's like
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: this she's basically about to get birtha.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: It's almost like they're just take just taking everything out
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: on Sylvia that didn't even.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: That she didn't do, but yeah, they all did.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Everything in the whole world was just like taken out
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: on her.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it seemed like when they took something out
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: on her, it wasn't like they got their frustrations out.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, I need to get my frustrations out and
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna beat her whatever like a punching bag, and
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: then Okay, I'm relaxed, I'm good, I got it out
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: of my system. It's like it almost made it worse.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: It made them hungry to do it again.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is fucked. Yeah, it's very fucked up.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's fuck to do that to begin with,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: but the fact that it made them hungry to do
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: it again is so beyond fucked. Anyways, we're gonna go
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: into the trials here, and I'm not going to touch
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: on it too much because I don't want to fucking
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: talk about those people anymore. We're going to talk about
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: the basics and get right down to what they served. Mostly.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy, during the trial, Gertrude and her
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: attorney pointed the finger at her children, claiming she didn't
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: know any of this was going on and she had
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with it, and then they portrayed her
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: as weak, chronically ill, and capable of preventing, sorry, preventing
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: any of the abuse that was being perpetuated in her house.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: That even I'm sorry, but even that attorney right there,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I'm this like asshole.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Oh the attorney right there, Gertrude there, both pointing at
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: the kids. It's like, oh yeah, great, mom, sir.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: The children's attorneys, of course, poured in the finger at
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Gertrude and the other kids. No one willing to take
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: any of the blame and claiming they didn't have any
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: part of it until eleven year old Marie Basinski was
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: called to the stand.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Is that the one that told the mom?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Or no?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: No, okay, okay, who's that then? Sorry?
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: This is one of Gertrude's daughters, one of the seven children.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: So initially Marie backed up everything her mother said until
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: cross examination occurred. Then suddenly she screamed and I quote
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: God helped me. Before admitting everything on the stand, she
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: said that everything she had prior said to or said
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: was a lie, and went on to recount in graphic
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: details how her mother siblings beat, tortured, and eventually murdered Sylvia.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Just like broke under pressure. Really up there, Yeah, which
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: is good.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And this account was largely responsible for the final verdict.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Which is interesting though, because lots of times they don't
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: take children's words like that.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: They're on a fucking stand like that and they break
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: down said everything I said was a lie. Here's the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: fucking truth. Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, and I think it is probably pretty
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: obvious to a lot of people as well who were investigating.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Paula was convicted of second degree murder. She
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: eventually did repeal and was granted a new trial. The
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: appeals came in because their trial actually occurred in the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: same state and area where the incident happened. So most
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: of the people who were in the uh I can't
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: think of the word the people the citizens jury, thank you.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Most of the jurors were actually people who knew of
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: the case before even going in. And it needs to
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: be a jury who is, you know, completely neutral, right,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: So these people were actually technically biased because of the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: news media and everything coming on. So I mean, fair.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Enough, they would have been biased regardless.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: They would have been, but fair enough. So the appeal
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: they got a new trial because of that. But before
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: the new trial began, she struck a plea bargain and
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter. So Paula served only three
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: years in prison and was then paroled.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: And like she's the end of she had a baby,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: had a baby.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Probably I'm assuming she had her baby. I didn't find
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: anything about that, but yes, John Bazinski, Coy Hubbard, and
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Richard Hobbes were each convicted of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: to eighteen months in juvenile detentionive.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: So wow, disgusting.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Gertrude herself was found guilty of murder in the first degree. Now,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: to the shock of literally everyone in Indianapolis, she did
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: not receive the death penalty at the time, but rather
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, but eventually walked
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: out of prison on parole anyways, on December fourth, nineteen
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: eighty five.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Why how on earth would she have gotten out then?
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: That wasn't even in the very long.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Then fifteen years.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's a joke.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then after that she traveled to Iowa under
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: the new name Nadine Van Fawsen, where she eventually died
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: of lung cancer in nineteen ninety. So at least at
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: the very least, though it's not fucking much, she's in
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: the fucking ground.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I can't believe she got.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: Out that that is, I know, it's absolutely fucking discussing.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: So wow, it's like I said, disgusting is what that is. Yeah, Now,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: where her kids are now is largely unknown. Like you're saying,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: where these people are, you don't have their lives change whatever. Now,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: Paula moved to Iowa and assumed a new identity. Internet
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: rumors claim that she is still alive and lives on
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: some farm somewhere in Iowa countryside.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Stefinitely. Stephanie apparently became a school teacher and assumed a
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: new name.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: That's a fucking school's so scary.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Right, fucking great, absolutely no way. Yeah. John changed his
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: name to John Blake and worked as a truck driver
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: before he became a real estate agent and a lay minister.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: And now he was the twelve year old at the time,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: so he was twelve at the time this occurred, and
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: has since taken responsibility of what he has done to
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: heart and quite serious, and he has turned his life
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: around and trying to do good. He's one of the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: few people that we know of who is actually willing
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: to take what he did and really try and repay
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: for it. So that is good.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: At least it's good. But I just like Donald, if
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I could forget that, I need some time.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: Now. As for Sylvia, her case is the reason for
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: an implemented law change in Indiana. Now. The law now states,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: because of this case that professionals that know about abuse
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: are legally obligated to report it.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Good. Yes, that's very good.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Now she officially passed away on October twenty sixth of
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five, at the age of sixteen. She was
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: buried in Oak Hill Cemetery in Boone County, Indiana. She
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: also has a memorial a memorial in Indianapolis, Indiana, with
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: an inscription that reads this, I see a light, hope,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I feel a breeze strength, I hear a song belief.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Let them through, for they they are the welcome ones.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, okay.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: And that is the case of Sylvia Likens. The brutal,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: fucking murder of Sylvia Likns.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: So I really hope you guys were able to get
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: through this and stomach it, and I really hope that
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: this one doesn't drag you down. But I do also
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: really hope that people remember Sylvia because this is absolutely
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: horrendous and I think more people need to know about
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: her case than what she endured.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think she was the light. Yeah, like
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: the I mean full disclosure. Like we had to stop
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: this at one point because I was like pretty much
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: bawling my face off. So you're not alone, because I'm
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: sure that I was not the only one.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Now, this one. It caught me off guard. I had,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: like I said, I had to take a whole extra
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: day for it because I needed to take some deep breaths.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: I needed to make sure I got the research right
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: for Sylvia. I needed that extra time. And if you
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: need extra time after listening to this, absolutely rightfully. So
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: it's disgusting.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's unthinkable that that could have been
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: happened in this world. So well, I do think that you.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say here, but like
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: you did well for Sylvia, so thank you. That would
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: not have been easy to research, that's for.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, No, it was not. But you also have a
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: case coming up that is not easy to research.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: I know, because maybe it's going to be late now
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: because I can't do this tomorrow.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: We don't generally say in episodes what's coming up next,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: but I think we should for this one because it's
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: it's a biggin Yeah.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Well, it's probably one of our main requested ones. And
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: it's interesting in the sense that we do know quite
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: a bit about it because it happened. The case happened,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: like it's quite close nine hours away from us or so, right.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: It's quite close. It's quite close to home.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so it's the Robert Picton yeah.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Case, so the probably the most infamous case in British
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Columbia where we reside.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: So well, yeah, in Canada, I think too, Like I
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: have to look that up specifically, but most of the
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: things I'm researching says Canada.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: So oh yeah, I would probably say so.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty bad one too.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: So we have that one coming up down the partesre
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: you guys.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: We're just not giving you guys any breaks here. We
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: need to find another one like the maple syrup ice please.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a nice family friendly crime.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Because that one, I don't know, I love that one.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: That's just too good.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyways, you guys, thank you very much for enduring.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: If you made it this far, good for you. Pat
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: on the back, and I'm sure Sylvia thanks you as
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: well for hearing out her full story. If you guys
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: want to check us out on Instagram, Facebook, all that
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff, I'm not going to sit here and
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: do a big spiel on follow us here and there.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: All of our stuff is down below. You know where
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: to find it. Check us out, and of course we
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: thank you for being here, thank you for listening, and
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: stay wicked.