Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 12 - Some Like It Hot (1959)

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Ep 12 - Some Like It Hot (1959) · Popcorn and Pals

• Zach Wheeler: Two deadbeat musicians witness a gruesome mass murder and find themselves on the run from the mob. To hide, they disguise themselves as women and con their way into a girl group. Their journey takes them to Florida where they spend their time gaslighting a young woman. After witnessing a second mass murder, they coerce a pervy millionaire into helping them escape. Justin Weakley: welcome back to Popcorn and Pals. ⁓ It's the podcast where talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, ⁓ and we give you completely unqualified takes on them. He's Zach, I'm Justin. And today we're talking about the 1959 ⁓ comedy that'll make you to run from the mob. ⁓ It's ⁓ Some Like Hot. Zachary, how are we Zachary Wheeler: Dude, I am so excited to talk about this movie. I feel like we did four 90s movies in a row. This is a classics podcast. Get that 90s trash out of here. That's too new. We're back. Black and white, 50s. I love it. I'm ready to talk about an old movie. Justin Weakley: I feel Yeah. I think when you first started talking about this podcast in general, like creating it, I think this is one of the movies that you were most excited for. Zachary Wheeler: I love talking about this movie because it's so insane. And the fact that it was made is incredible. The premise is incredible. Not to get like straight into it, but it's just, it's an insane movie that I was like, I remember watching, so I always talk about this, right? Like part of what inspired me to do this podcast, my wife and I were like, we need to get up in our classic movies. And I was telling, or we were talking about this before, but. The first time I watched this movie, it was kind of like in that effort. And ⁓ my wife's aunt was actually who recommended it to us. We watched it with them. But I just remember watching this movie and be like, what is happening? I've never seen anything like this. It's so insane. a like, it's a period piece. Even for the fifties, it's a period piece. It takes place in the twenties, but it's like, Justin Weakley: You Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: about men in drag. has nothing to do with the 20s other than guess gangsters and prohibition. It's in black and white in a time when most movies were in color. It's got mass murder in it. It's just an insane movie. Anyways. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a very interesting movie. I am very excited to talk about it, because I feel like there's a lot of, yeah, it touches on a lot of different things. ⁓ But before we dive into it, do you want to hit us with your patented plot summary? Zachary Wheeler: sure. Alright. ⁓ ⁓ Justin Weakley: Perfect. Yeah, that's it. You don't even need to watch the movie now. Just that's it right there. I think that also sums up how kind of ludicrous some of this story is. Zachary Wheeler: You No, it's like, it starts off with like anything, any other movie that starts off with like a mob mass killing, like, and it's based on a real event, like a Bloody Valentine's, right? Any other movie, if you're the witness to that movie, it's like, this is a drama, right? You're like in, you're either in drama, you're going through PTSD, they're just like, we gotta get out of here, Jerry. We gotta go. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah Yeah, we gotta go. Zachary Wheeler: He's like, well, we can be in Florida. It'd nice weather. It's so cold in Chicago. I'm like, you just saw mass murder. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I yeah, I feel like the overall theme of this movie is that there are very heavy events that happen But because it's supposed to be a comedy they just kind of just just dance right through it I mean the whole thing is pretty ludicrous there I can't wait to to get to the nitpicks at the end of our show because there's there's quite a few but but no Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. For sure. Speaking of that, yeah, let's just talk about podcast structure then real quick so we can get started with our chat because I want to get into this one, man. I'm like, I'm ready. I told you I've talked about this movie with you forever. Like, I just think it's I have so many opinions on it. anyways, podcast structure. We're going to have a chat about the movie, compare some notes. We'll get into our superlatives and then we'll rate whether we think this movie should be a classic. Justin Weakley: Mm. You Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ From a real plot summary perspective, ⁓ there's two musicians ⁓ by ⁓ Tony Curtis ⁓ Jack Lemmon. ⁓ They ⁓ ⁓ witness ⁓ ⁓ mass murder ⁓ the mob, mob, ⁓ intergang rivalry kind of stuff. ⁓ ⁓ Justin Weakley: You Zachary Wheeler: Obviously the mob doesn't want any witnesses, so they go on the run and the way they decide to do that is to impersonate women and join an all-girl jazz musical group. And while they're heading down to Florida to do a gig for two weeks, ⁓ they meet Marilyn Monroe's character, Sugar Cane. Jesus, what a name. Anyways, the whole... Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: both of the two men like basically fall in love with her or, you know, ⁓ infatuated by her. ⁓ But they're in drag and so they're women to her. ⁓ ⁓ yes, somehow they're women to her. ⁓ so they, ⁓ you know, hijinks ensue. ⁓ Tony Curtis's character impersonates like a. Like ⁓ ⁓ owner. Justin Weakley: from how their women turn. Zachary Wheeler: his name also to Shell oil jr. Shell oil jr. ⁓ to you know I guess win mainland Monroe's heart ⁓ meanwhile ⁓ Jack Lemons character ⁓ Daphne or Jerry whatever you want to call her it him ⁓ he he's getting pursued by a real millionaire ⁓ and then coincidentally Justin Weakley: Yeah, Shell Oil. Zachary Wheeler: Like the biggest coincidence, guess we'll get into nitpicks, but the mob comes to their hotel in Florida, completely unrelated to following them and trying to find them. Just happens to be that like, you know, that, that classic mob scene where all the families get together and they talk, you know, whatever, right? ⁓ just happens to be at the same hotel that they're doing their, that this all girl band is performing at. And so culminates in them, you know, escaping the mob. Justin Weakley: you Zachary Wheeler: And, ⁓ you know, Marilyn Monroe figures out that she's a dude. Does have problem with that. And they run off together. There you go. Justin Weakley: There you go. Even listening to you talk about it, ⁓ after watching it, it still sounds crazy. It sounds like such a wild plot. But I don't know, maybe, because I feel like we have been exposed to other movies of this, like almost specific genre, like White Chicks, ⁓ I think, right? Like, yeah, but I'm sure. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it's an insane movie. Yeah, yeah, this has been remade a thousand times in many different ways. Justin Weakley: I'm sure back in the 50s, this was probably like a pretty novel idea. I don't know if this was like the first movie to put like men in women's clothing and act like women, but. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, well we've talked about the Hays Code before, right? So like, the Hays Code would have strictly prohibited this movie. And this movie comes out right as the Hays Code is becoming irrelevant. And a lot of people credit this movie. So this movie was, the script was not submitted to the Code's authority for review. So it didn't go through the Hays Code's process because there's like, there's... Justin Weakley: Yeah. You Zachary Wheeler: cross-dressing in it. There is man-on-man relationship, even if one of them doesn't know that they're in a man-on-man relationship, right? There's like gay undertones in this. There is, know, like, it's just, it's a very prog-, I say, yeah, I say this loosely, but it's a progressive movie for 1959, and it's attributed for making the Hays Code pretty irrelevant. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Progressive. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Because I do think it actually has something to say. Like I don't know if white chicks really has something to say about culture and about masculinity and about identity and all that stuff. Or at least not the way that this movie does. But before we get started here, okay. So I wrote, I know we talked about before this podcast started some of the accolades of this movie, but I just wanted to go down the list here. Okay. A 95 % on Rotten Tomato. Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: 98 % on Metacritic, AFI's 100 movies, 100 laughs, number one on that list. Yeah, number one on the 100 laughs. Now this is from 20 years ago, so maybe Superbad gets put on there or something, I don't know. But ⁓ the BBC's 100 Greatest Movies of All Time, number 30. AFI's 100 Greatest Movies of All Time, number 23. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. I didn't know that. Wow. Wow. Sure. Zachary Wheeler: 1998 Time Magazine, 100 greatest movies of all time, number nine. Roger Ebert said, one of the most endearing treasures of the movies. It was the biggest film in 1959 and the Catholic Church gave it a C rating for ⁓ condemned by the Legion of Decency. So. Justin Weakley: What? What? I didn't even know that one. I read a bunch of the other ones, but the Catholic Church reviewed it? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, the Catholic Church, they have an ABC rating. This was back in the 50s. I don't know if they still have it. But C was our lowest rating they could give. It's for condemned by the Legion of Decency. So the Catholic Church, not a fan of this movie, but everyone else in the history of movies considers this like one of the best movies of all time. Classic comedy, the comedy of comedies. What'd you think about it? Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was okay. mean, it was it was I know we were kind of we kind of joking about it very briefly before we started recording like it's it's a movie. I don't know. I mean, I was pretty OK. Yeah. Going back to the accolades after watching it, because I always I always research after we watch movies. Zachary Wheeler: You Sure, sure, yeah, go in there fresh, I got it. Justin Weakley: Because then I feel like it's kind of fun to see what did I think about it versus what did the rest of the world think about it, especially decades ago. I was pretty shocked to see that it was nominated for six Academy Awards. I did think it was really funny that the only one that it won was best costume design. But the other one, I don't know if you mentioned it, but in 1989, the Library of Congress selected it. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, best pitcher, best director. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Justin Weakley: as one of the first 25 films for preservation in the US National Film Registry. Even in 1989, I feel like I'm hard pressed to put this in the top 25 first selections. That's a hard sell for me. ⁓ I don't know, I thought it was funny. I didn't think it was a bad movie. I actually thought a lot of the jokes and the humor still landed today, ⁓ which I feel like that's a test. Zachary Wheeler: No, there's a few times I visibly laughed out loud. Like Philadelphia's story is supposed to be a comedy. I didn't laugh a single time out loud in that movie for the most part. Like this movie is pretty good. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, I agree. mean, especially for something that's almost 70 years old. I think that's a pretty that's a pretty decent testament to how well it was written, how well it was acted. ⁓ But like all that to say and I don't know, I guess I'm just hard pressed to be like, yes, this is it. This makes all the lists. It's one of the best movies ever made. And I just don't feel that way. But it's. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: It was fun. It was entertaining. I had fun watching it. I don't know. What about you? You said you watched it for the first time eight years ago. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: No, I totally thought this movie was fine. I thought was okay. I was like, okay, it's okay. Like honestly the the the whole like the more you think about the conceit of the movies and what's happening in the movie It's stuck with me in like how insane the plot is ⁓ And the writing is pretty good like the dialogue is pretty good. Sometimes they're a little Exposition a and there's some overacting for sure ⁓ but ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: But I think there's a couple things like working for this movie for history. we haven't done Citizen Kane yet. Again, I think we gotta be much better at this show before we do Citizen Kane. And Adam, need to be better than this. We probably need to be better at this than for this movie. what was novel? What was inventive? What was pushing the boundaries? What was bringing things so far along? and completely new in 1959 is just derivative now, right? Like there's been, you know, we talked about it, like there's a stupid, you know, low brow comedy, White Chicks, that's like literally similar concept. And it's like, that movie is like, throw it away in the bargain bin at Walmart, right? Like it's not, you know what I mean? It's just not. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: The concept is if you made this movie today, you pitched this movie today, it's as silly and stupid and not like, doesn't really have a lot of social commentary that you would find in 1959 when they did this for the first time. Like I said, The Haze Code, like this broke, this is one of the movies that broke The Haze Code because of how original it was. It's just. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Not that way anymore, but that's because we have 70 years, thanks to this movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah, no, I think that's a phenomenal take on it. Because yeah, it's this type of stuff. I think we're just we're numb to it. We have seen every single type of comedy that feels like has ever been made before so nothing about this feels novel. I mean and I think maybe that's why it feels just so fine. Like it doesn't feel it doesn't stand out whatsoever to me. But if we were in 1959 seeing this for the very first time I'm sure we would have been blown away like oh my god holy shit this is really funny this is incredible this has never been done before. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Justin Weakley: But yeah, no, it's fine. Yeah, I wish I had a big stamp that just said, it's fine stamp. mean. Zachary Wheeler: yeah it's fine it's okay yeah it's okay Yeah, I know, right? It'll be, I'm like not sure where, to pre-tease a little bit here, I'm honestly not sure where this is for me and it's a classic, not a classic phase. Because I think especially comedy is like so subjective to the time it's in. The further we get away from certain comedies, the less relevant they become. And so you look back at like, it takes a really special comedy, I think. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: to really hold this value over time. And the fact that this is a period piece in a gangster 1920s era, I think works for it in that regard, even though it was a period piece back in 1959, it doesn't feel like, you know, when we watched... Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Oh, what's it called? Even though I really liked it, but guess who's coming to dinner? Like that movie feels like it takes place in 1967, right? You know, like this movie, it's a 59 movie. It takes place in the 20s, but there's movies being made about that time period still to this day where the 60s is a little more, you know, it's like the 60s, 70s, 80s is like, it'd be weird to make this movie now and to place it in the 80s. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: But anyways, I don't know, I'm kind of rambling there, I think it works to its advantage. Because I think like over time, big comedies from even in our lifetime have become less relevant. Like Napoleon Dynamite was like the best thing when it came out. it's like, if I watch that now, I'm like, what is this trash, right? Or Anchorman gets less funny over time, I think, as another example, right? Justin Weakley: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: that kind of humors evolved and changed, you know, when you watch Anchorman and then you watch, I don't know why I keep bringing this up, but like Superbad, you're like, oh, well, Superbad elevated that genre. Anchorman was like, you know, living on the SNL world of movies, but like, okay, comedy is changing and like, then it keeps changing. And to a point right now where we just really don't have that much comedy anymore. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: I think that's kind of been replaced by superhero movies because they're pretty comedic. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, no, I think yeah, you're exactly right. And there's it's funny that you you you stole my example Napoleon Dynamite. I watched it. It was probably last year at some point, but I put it on just one night when Hannah and I were getting ready to go to bed and she was like, ⁓ I didn't really like this movie. And I was like, this was the funniest thing ever created. Zachary Wheeler: Sorry. Justin Weakley: When we saw it, when we were what, freshmen in high school maybe? I don't know, I don't remember when it came out, but we thought it was the best thing. It's horrible. It's one of the worst things I've ever seen as an adult. But to think at that time, we were blown away by it, because it was such a different type of thing that was being done, similar to this movie, to some Like It's Hot, that was done back in the 50s. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Hahaha! Yeah. I know we'll have to get to- We'll have to get together in like 10 years when our kids are in middle school age. And we're gonna have to like run them through like a series of comedies over the decades and see if like which ones hold up and which ones don't. I'll be like, all right, we're gonna watch some like it's hot. What do you think about it? No? All right, we're gonna watch, you know, we're gonna watch ⁓ Porky's or Animal House. Okay, no? All right, we're gonna watch, you know. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Napoleon Dynamite, then we're gonna watch Anchorman and then we're gonna watch you know Whatever right after that like I'm just gonna be curious like see what holds up to them at like because you know is Napoleon Dynamite funny because it's 19 because we were 14 when it came out or is it funny because You know it was actually good and I don't think it was so Justin Weakley: Mm. It's yeah, the former not the latter. But you yeah, you you do you bring up a good point too I feel like we could we could spend an entire episode talking about like similar to I feel like horror movies We've we've touched on that in the past like that feels like untapped potential comedy like the comedy genre feels like it is just Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: simmered down really, really hard over the last decade plus. And I know there's probably just a bunch of different factors that goes into it, but it's really sad because I feel like they're for such a long time from like early to early mid thousands to like what mid 2010s. feel like Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, stalled. Yeah, maybe like 2012, 14 was like the end of that era. Telling you that the comic book movie killed it because they're so comedic. Yeah, I don't know. do, because they used to be like the biggest movies. Like the only ones that we would watch, like talk about, were like comedy movies from the 2000s. Justin Weakley: Yeah, there was a ton of comedy movies. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you think about like a hangover series. I remember going to see the hangover part two, like opening night prime time, because we were like, this is it. Like this is the movie that we've been waiting for for years, right? I mean, that's a big deal with like, I feel like most comedy movies, you probably like, yeah, I don't know, maybe we'll go see that like next week or something. Yeah, exactly. But I don't know, at one point. Zachary Wheeler: But there's, yeah. You Yeah, usually I'll wait till they come out on Netflix. Yeah, I can't think of the last time I've been to a comedy in theaters. Justin Weakley: I can't either. I don't know. I couldn't tell you because I feel like they're just they're so few and far between They don't make them like they used to ⁓ But anywho, I mean it's yeah, it's just sad Zachary Wheeler: But there really are products of their time. Like my parents think like Caddyshack and like Animal House like the two funniest movies ever. And I'm like, they are whatever. Caddyshack is okay. Animal House I find like practically unwatchable. It's so bad in my mind, know, in my memory. So it's like, it's just, they're so subjective. They're really products of the time. And I think that's testament to this movie. Like I think it's got some more classic humor in it. There's some definitely of the time stuff in it, but. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. now. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: One thing did want to bring up though, give a shout out, ⁓ our boy Tubi back, got this on Tubi. ⁓ Justin Weakley: yeah to be be to be gets my nomination for most innovative for 2026 i feel like i have watched i've i've watched more movies on tubi this year i didn't Zachary Wheeler: Things been around for 10 years, but okay. Justin Weakley: Okay, let me to clarify. I didn't even know to be existed before we started this podcast. And I think you texted me one time and said, like whatever we were trying to review that one week, you're like, Oh, it's on to be like the fuck is to be I thought you were just joking. Like, you know, because there's so many funny app names. um, yeah, I don't know to be yeah, big shout out to be y'all are doing. Zachary Wheeler: Tubbies were movies pre 2013 go to survive, you know. Justin Weakley: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ But yeah, the only thing that I don't like about Tubi is the ads, but I don't care. It gives me a chance to check out for a minute or something. yeah, big, big ups to Tubi. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, you know, can you cop back up on your notes? Yeah. Justin Weakley: Ugh. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ man. ⁓ Alright, so let's talk a little bit about the movie itself. I know we've talked about its accolades. ⁓ We gave 2B a shout out. We briefly touched on Oscars. Six Oscar nominations, director, actor, screenplay. is when they had black and white categories. So art design, cinematography, and costume one for costume. Actor was Jack Lemmon. I'm sure we'll get into him in our superlatives. ⁓ only nominated actor of the whole crew though, of the whole cast. ⁓ he's probably the most comedic too. ⁓ Director though, Billy Wilder. Are you familiar with him? Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. I buy it. I enjoyed him the most out of everybody. Spoiler. No, but I was reading that him and Marilyn like really clashed on set and there is just like a lot of drama and stuff. What was there first? Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. This is our second movie, too. The Seven Year Itch. That's the classic Marilyn Monroe white dress over the great New York City photo. Yeah. Justin Weakley: I even know, I've never even heard that, those words before. Never heard of it. Zachary Wheeler: The seven year itch. Yeah, this is, think, he's probably one of the directors I've seen the most from this era, Billy Wilder, because he's got like, we should do Sunset Boulevard for this. I think it's his best film. ⁓ Spirit of St. Louis, Sabrina, which they've remade like 600 times. That's an Aubrey Hepburn movie. The Apartment, which stars Jack Lemmon. ⁓ And then Seven Year Itch, Double Indemnity. So he's got like some very, very, very famous movies. think he's got like Justin Weakley: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: four movies that are in the 100 greatest movies of all time like AFILIST. ⁓ Some really iconic performances and iconic characters nominated in his own time, 21 times at the Oscars and won seven of them. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Wilder's putting up big numbers. That's him. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, and he's one of those like early Jewish immigrants into Hollywood, right? Like, so he's a, you know, that same group coming out of Europe from World War II and before, actually not say World War II, because he moved to the United States before that, but during the rise of Nazism in Germany and in Austria and things like that. One thing I really liked about him, which I can't... Justin Weakley: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: you can tell from this movie. I think this is what I was alluding to when we talked about Goodfellas and like my struggle with like Martin Scorsese movies or like Christopher Nolan movies too is so Billy Wilder started out as a writer. So he's a writer first and the directing he's like he's not like a like a very cinematic guy. He likes to just kind of keep it straight and let the writing do the work of the storytelling, right? And let the cinematography just not be distracting. I think when I was talking about the technicalness or the coldness of a Scorsese movie or Nolan movie, that's what I mean. They're not writers first, right? They're not narrative first. They're like the idea, the story that they're telling, which Marcello Scorsese is much more of a storyteller, I personally think. Then Nolan is, I think Nolan is just like, he just likes, he gets an idea in his head and he's like, oh, it'd really cool if things went backwards through time. And then he writes a whole movie about that, which is maybe not fair. And he's like, oh, I really want to film the largest explosion in the world. So, know, Oppenheimer for, you know, like, I feel like he gets ideas and he's like, I want to do this and this story. The story will make it work. like, Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's... Zachary Wheeler: But what I really liked about Billy Wilder movies is they're just, prioritize story and the cinematography is really not distracting me. And so I kind of agree with him and his philosophy about filmmaking. So I don't know. I just want to talk about him for a minute. And do you have any opinions on old Billy Wilder? Justin Weakley: Hmm. mean, I am not familiar with him. ⁓ I think his, ⁓ like ⁓ legacy is pretty incredible ⁓ hear that he's had a lot of big movies and stuff. I mean, I definitely get what you're saying, ⁓ like listening to your take on him and like applying that to this movie. Cause yeah, this movie is not, was it? ⁓ it was. It was ⁓ for best cinematography ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: jokes because there's not really any cinematography to be had here it's just i don't know the camera is set up and it's like they say action and then you know there's nothing crazy but yeah i i think the star of this show is the jokes it's the writing it's the delivery from the actors and then and the actresses and stuff Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, they let the performance just sit on the screen, right? They're not cutting around it. They're not doing a lot of crazy. They're not shooting it through a hole in the middle of a chair so that way you can see. I don't know. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. It's not a taco within a taco. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, exactly. One thing, so this movie has a famous line, the last line of the movie, like, nobody's perfect or ⁓ is like, it's almost funny to think that that is like an original line. It's just such a part of our culture, but it's from this movie, which I think is really cool. And one thing, Billy Wilder, think really liked the line too. They talked, I think I saw in the research that they couldn't, Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: They wrote it in as a placeholder line and then they couldn't think of anything better. But his tombstone actually says, I'm a writer, but then nobody's perfect. Like that's what his tombstone like says on it. So he's like, this movie quotes the thing that he wanted or I don't know if he wanted it, but his estate put on his tomb. So that was, think it's pretty cool. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's pretty neat. I mean, yeah, you're right. It's It is so ingrained into our our culture. It's kind of hard to to fathom that it came from this movie, but Yeah, it's really neat Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Any other notes you got before we get into our superlatives? I just want to jump into it. Justin Weakley: no, everything is hyper specific, so let's jump. Zachary Wheeler: So our support letters are going to be best seen, best character, worst character or the weakest link in the film, age the best, age the worst, WTF are they talking about? What would be a sequel? Which I actually think I have a good one for this one finally. I'm like, I'll put an interesting sequel in mind. And or like, you know, the kind of like what would happen the next day? And then last, we'll go over to hot takes and nitpicks. Justin Weakley: Mmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: I don't have anything for age the worst, so we can skip that section this time. I don't have anything for nitpicks in the plot. I think it's going to be, we can skip up to those, you know. Justin Weakley: I actually, I am adding a new category. It's more of a spinoff of WTF are they talking about. It is called WTF is that. So, something to look forward to. Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Okay. Okay, all right. Alright, alright, let's get into the best scene. Why don't you now and Nates, I'll let you kick it off. Justin Weakley: Okay, I had written down, okay, I feel like it is worth it to preface this with, I had a lot of notes on singular jokes. There's so many scenes that have really funny, like one off jokes, but it's not an entire scene. for like, for example, when Zachary Wheeler: Okay. let's go through a few. Justin Weakley: like when we first meet Joe and Jerry and they're at the club and they're talking about like, how are we going to get paid? What are we going to do? Jerry wants to get his teeth fixed. Joe wants to go gamble it all away on, I think dog racing. Yeah. Right. But like they're over here, they're talking about what they're going to do. like they see the police chief pulling out his badge and using his badge to like tap in his cigar. And they just, they know. they're like, oh shit. And then they just start packing up their instruments, their instruments. Zachary Wheeler: Gamble on dog racing. No, I like their mid playing everyone's still playing and doing the performance and they're like, alright, let's go They're pretty streetwise. I'll give them that Justin Weakley: instruments. Yeah. And that's yeah. And that that that scene right there, it's so funny. It's not an entire scene. It's just one little quiet moment, but it's so funny. So I had a ton of those. I don't think that they are justified for best scene, but I think my favorite actual scene of the entire movie is the train scene. ⁓ specifically when sugar gets into Jerry's bunk when he's asleep but it's I think okay it's perfect because so it's prefaced with us seeing just how Jerry he's giddy to be on that train and to be around all these women like he's so much so that Zachary Wheeler: You Yeah, he's... He's hornballing it pretty hard, you know? Justin Weakley: He is like he uses that example. He tells Joe that he used that he had a recurring dream that he was locked in like what like a sweet shop or something and he was surrounded by sweets and so he's applying that to like this is how I feel right now Joe. But so anyway he's. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You It's just like no chocolate, no sweets, no, you know. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah, he is he is so excited to be on that train that joe has to tell him you you have to calm down and you have to stay in your bunk Don't do anything stupid. So when jerry gets woken up by sugar in the middle of the night and he is so excited Like I think that whole the the entire scene and everything that follows I think that that's what sold me on this movie. That's what sold me as jerry being my favorite character ⁓ Yeah ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: You Yeah, he's like crawling in and out of people trying to get like there's like 20 people in his bed. Justin Weakley: Like, you're talking about how there are several moments where you really, you laughed out loud. I had that moment when ⁓ Sugar was talking about getting drinks or something like that, and he's so excited. He says it might turn into a surprise party where... Zachary Wheeler: No, that's the thing. He like legit like there's a point in that scene where he thinks he's like, I'm gonna get late tonight. Justin Weakley: Yeah, he's very serious like yeah, just him talking about like ⁓ it's a surprise party. I mean It's just really funny but then he gets upset because sugar, know climbs down and she's looking I don't remember what she's looking for and all the other girls climb up there Yeah, but yeah Zachary Wheeler: I'm like ⁓ she's looking for, think she's going to get ice. And then Josephine falls. Justin Weakley: yeah and so the yeah the the whole scene is capped off with and i mean it is it's mildly humorous i didn't find it as funny as just watching jerry interact with just everything that happened ⁓ but yeah when joe is talking to sugar and it's like the bathroom or something and she's describing how she used to fall in love with sax players literally she's just describing him to the t like perfectly just and he's just like uh-huh Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. ⁓ He's like, down glasses, got it. Note down millionaire, got it. Justin Weakley: But just that whole drain scene, ⁓ it was so much fun. I really, really enjoyed it. ⁓ That was my favorite. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Now it was on my list for sure. I think it's like it's the introduction of Marilyn Monroe. I even you see her getting on the train, but it's like the her first speaking time, right? Is when she gets in there and everything and it's a good scene. I agree. Justin Weakley: Yeah. I also like real quick side note too. So when we first meet the boys in like the gangster club, whatever in Chicago at the beginning of the movie, they are wildly different than what they turn out like the remainder of the movie. So when we first meet them, Joe is like the optimist. He's, hey, let's go bet. Let's go have fun. Let's go do this. Every everything is fine. Yeah. Jerry. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, he's like the not responsible one. Jack is the, not Jack, Jack's the, Jack Lemmon, but Jerry is the more cautious responsible. Justin Weakley: Yeah, Jerry, yeah, Jerry does. Yeah, he wants to get his teeth fixed. He wants to pay their rent. He wants to do. He does not want to take any risks whatsoever. He's he's the pessimist. And when things start to go south, he's like, oh, this we're done, dude. Like, what are we going to do? We're done. But like, as soon as they get on that train, it's almost like it doesn't flip because Joe still has fun. And, know, with all the things, but. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: Jerry, I guess, kind of comes out of his stick in the mud personality and he has more fun. So I think that. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. I almost think it's like their care the way it's written. I think that's a really good point. But it's almost like their characters are like Joe is the planner. Now when he's when it's not life or death, he's planning terrible things, right? Like going to gamble all their money away. And he's like, but he's always scheming, always planning. And I think when it becomes life or death, he's like, I'm in my planning mode. You know, we're going to get on the train, we're going to get to Florida, we're going to go away. You know, obviously, sugar throws a little bit of a wrench in his plan. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: but he's the planner, it's true to his character, it's just like when the pressure is on or when it's life or death, he's like, my planning-ness goes into overdrive, where Jack's kind of, he's just going with vibes. So when he's nervous, he's vibing to nervousness, right? When he's around women, he's like, I'm vibing to women, you know, whatever, right? He's just like, one guy's all vibes, one guy's a planner, and maybe that's how you could argue what the, almost the switch. Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. No. Zachary Wheeler: and characteristics in their character were all of sudden like, yeah, it's like, I don't know. But anyways, it's kind of my take on like, can try to be more consistent with their character, but I agree. What other scenes you got? I know you said you wrote down a lot of jokes. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah, another one. So when they first get to the train station before all that happens. ⁓ Jerry's not convinced that... dressing up as women and going down there like he's just not convinced that it's gonna work and they see they see a paper boy walking by screaming about front page like the massacre that they witnessed yeah and then jerry jerry you see him physically straighten up and he says you talked me into it and then he just marches forward ⁓ no hesitation anymore he's all about it but ⁓ those two like again i think that's that Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, mass murdering. He's like, yep, nope. Justin Weakley: It's like that generational humor that it's still funny today and it'll probably be funny in another hundred years. I don't, yeah, some of those, that humor and those like little one-off jokes are, really good. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. The one joke that got me good, and it's just the way like Tony Curtis sells it, but when ⁓ Marilyn Monroe asks ⁓ Daphne to carry her ukulele, he's like, ⁓ yeah, of course. And she's like, and then Jerry like gives him a saxophone, like, all right. He's like, ⁓ thank you. And he's like fumbling with it. It got me good. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah or the like I don't this was not as funny but I did think it was I Guess it was just really interesting because clearly somebody thought it was funny the recurring joke about the ⁓ blood type They bring They bring that up like that I don't know why but they it comes up like probably three or four times throughout the movie They talk about I've got ⁓ I've got ⁓ blood Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, that was, I had that written down, yeah. Yeah, they're like stuck on it. They can't like get past it Justin Weakley: Yeah, but there is something that's kind of funny that because like it catches you off guard like when you least expect it here comes the ⁓ blood type joke again and then you're kind of like ⁓ shit that's kind of funny. ⁓ But yeah some of those like just a little one-off jokes they are really they're not long and played out like the train but they are still really really good and well done. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Yeah. I had the yacht scene when he like steals the boat and is driving it backwards because he can't get it to work properly. And then it's like, you know, I also think that like she calls him Shell Oil Jr., which is just really funny. She just doesn't know his name at all. It's just Junior and Shell Oil. I think it's pretty funny. Her dress is ridiculous in that scene. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. which, ⁓ cause she was not wearing like any sort of bra under that dress. Zachary Wheeler: Well, yeah, there's no bra and anything that she wears half the time. And then it's like, like it's got like a sheer top up to her neck, but like it's sheer and it's like barely, she's barely contained in that thing. know, it's just, it's like very distracting. But, ⁓ I mean, it's not Marilyn Monroe, so it's not like, it's not negative necessarily, but, ⁓ and then the way he tries to talk about like, Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Nautical terms the whole time he's on there the the one line that really got me. He's like, oh, yeah this ships and ship ship shape like Ship three times in one sentence. I Don't know and he's like, well tech he's like she's like which one's starboard and which one he's like Well, technically is but what's direction you're pointing? Just the way he's talking about it just he's just making stuff up and then I did have the blood type Oh Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Cause that comes up in that scene again too. I'm like, it just like, I'm like, I wrote down blood type O joke. Is this good? Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's so... It's just so random. I don't even remember how it pops up but it's like it popped up at the very beginning and then it just keeps coming back to them and they keep throwing it out there but yeah the good old Zachary Wheeler: And then the other part of that scene that made me laugh too is like when she's like trying, you know, his whole like scheme of like, can't love and she's like, let me, you know, kiss it out of you or whatever. But I just love, it kept like cutting between like Osgood and Daphne dancing and then them kissing and then back to Osgood dancing. There's your cinematography right there, right? There's your editing, editing, I guess. But I thought it was pretty funny. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Hmm Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the scene where they go on Osgood's boat. Zachary Wheeler: I like that scene. Yeah, where he like hijacks the little dinghy, drives it backwards because he can't get it to work. Because there's no he's doing. Like he's like an excuse for everything. Maybe it's out of gas. Maybe it's all it's broken. It's not because I don't know what I'm doing. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's trying to just downplay the entire situation to her. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. And then I had the scene where he like shows back up the morning after too and Daphne's like, I'm engaged. He's like, what are you talking about? He's like, I know. He's like, well, what is he going to do about the honeymoon? She's like, I don't know, Tahiti or whatever she says, you know, I like, I want to do Niagara Falls. Justin Weakley: You Yeah, I think Jack, yeah, Jack Lemmon, Jerry, he's, he's by, mean, yeah, I'm jumping ahead, but he's so funny in this movie. I thought, between the two of them, I thought he was way funnier than, than, who's Joe again? What's his name? Tony Curtis, sorry. Yeah. Like he has his moments, but ⁓ there's just something about Jack Lemmon. He was so good in this. Even just like his, the Zachary Wheeler: Tony Curtis, yeah. He's Jamie Lee Curtis' dad. You... I will, we'll get into him later. But, ⁓ in a minute here. But like, the one thing I did write down with this scene, I'm like, because these guys are supposed to be musicians, right? But they're more like hustlers, like shysters and con men than they are like anything else. They're just kind of like, they're like, ⁓ our goal is to play music, but we're like, you know, money's money. We'll con our way into anything. Whether that's a scam marriage or... Justin Weakley: faces that he would make and yeah, he's funny. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ pretending to be a millionaire to get, you know, the girl or pretending to be girls to get in a band to get away from the mob. They're like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, we get paid, go to Florida, can't get away from the mob. They're more con men than they are anything. Justin Weakley: Yeah, they really... Yeah, you're right. They're schemers. They're shy-sties. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. What about ⁓ the end chase mob chase? How'd you feel about like how the movie ended? Justin Weakley: Yeah, I don't know. have so much of that part under nitpicks. I do think the pop out from the... In terms of cinematography, the pop out from the cake into the mass murder, it doesn't go down as best seen, but that was highly violent. ⁓ When the dude pops out with a Tommy gun and just starts spraying. I mean, it's actually really well done and almost feels like it doesn't fit in this movie because I thought surely they're not just going to kill these guys. Zachary Wheeler: Okay. I know, right? Yeah, two mass murders. They witnessed two mass murders. The guys. Justin Weakley: and yeah yeah but the whole thing is everything is just so For every serious, like dramatic moment that should be in the film, I feel like you have 20 goofy moments. So for that second mass murder, you have all of these mobsters who are there for like a convention in Florida. It's like a mob convention fest or something. It's just so goofy. mean... Zachary Wheeler: They have one of those scenes in Godfather 2 when we get to that movie. they got like, bring up, no, I think it's Godfather 1 when they're like, bring the family together and like Marlon Brando's like leading it. Justin Weakley: Wow, okay. Huh. It's, yeah, it was very interesting, but yeah, I don't know. It's like the just, yeah, the goofiness of some of it, but the goofiness of the chase scene at the end and they're like hiding in, like they're hiding under the table with the, it's like a dead body or something to try to get away from them at the very, like. Zachary Wheeler: It's like the five families, know, kind of thing. ⁓ yeah, I think it's spats. They're willing out spats through the lobby. Justin Weakley: Yeah, and they're hiding under the... Yeah, like everything is just so goofy. Zachary Wheeler: No police there. Yeah, well, I guess the police are there, but it's very, no, it's good. What about the, to think of some of other scenes, ⁓ the beach scene where Shell Oil Jr. meets ⁓ Sugary. Yeah, yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I know. me sir for the first time. ⁓ Yeah, I thought it was really funny. One when he's like yelling at the kid, because the mom is trying to get the kid to Yeah, he's like, get out here. the kid like starts crying and runs to his mom. ⁓ Yeah, that was really fun. I also really it was really funny because Jerry wants to go down to the beach. Sorry, Daphne wants to go down to the beach with sugar because sugar is going to be in her bathing suit. And Zachary Wheeler: He's like, scram, dude. You You Justin Weakley: he's a great you know he's a man wearing women's bathing suit but he's he's brave enough to try it ⁓ but yeah then yeah you have Joe down there and he's Zachary Wheeler: It is, well, I love Jack Lemmon though, because like it never occurs to him to like, okay, well can also be a guy around her. Like I don't have to, I Daphne and ⁓ Jerry can't be in the room at the same time, but Jerry can be in a room, you know? They like never occurs to him. like, I want to spend time with Suga and I'm going to go as Daphne to the beach and then we're going to throw her on the ball and sing like, you know, songs about like, I don't know, falling in love with the boy or whatever. And then yeah, I just love that Joe is like. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Or is it Joe, right? That's his name? Yeah. Joe is, ⁓ he's like, ⁓ now we get, why would I be Josephine right now? I can't. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah he has a he has a very good plan he steals ⁓ what's the dude's name i can't remember the he's like the assistant for the the lady that runs the okay yeah very very specific name but he steals his suitcase so that he can Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ bean stock Justin Weakley: wear nice men's clothes and dress up and make himself like he has a plan to your point he is a planner and when he's not under pressure he can actually formulate a really good plan I mean this thing was well thought out that he was going to they're all really bad I mean yeah Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, if not completely manipulative and ⁓ terrible. But again, he's a con man, right? He's a con man. He's conning his way into, you know, her pants or whatever, right? Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I can't wait to get to worst character because they're they're all arguably justifiably bad in their own sense, but Zachary Wheeler: God, I love this movie so much. It's just insane. Alright, I'm with you though. I think let's do Train Scene. It's introduction is classic. It's got hijinks. It's got backstories. It's got all the good stuff. I think that's the best scene. Yeah, it's got like a thousand old-timey things to do like breaking ice with a pick. Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's fun. It's a fun one. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: That's funny. And Marilyn Monroe is pretty funny in those scenes too. It's surprising how funny she is. Because you just think of her as kind of like this sex symbol pinup, you know, and she's actually pretty funny in some scenes. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. I agree. think Sugar was, yeah, she was really good. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, well, we'll get to it. Let's get to her now. Let's do best character. So let's, you want to start with sugar? Sugarcane? No, she's just, I'm nominating people right now. Nomination. Justin Weakley: Yeah. No, yeah. Okay. So sugar is your best character. That's who you're going with. Yeah. Yeah. No, I okay. So yeah, I, my, okay, my, uh, Zachary Wheeler: This is good. Justin Weakley: What's the word I'm looking for? ⁓ My spoiler is that I've never seen a Marilyn Monroe movie before. I know who she is, but I guess seeing her for the very first time, I didn't know what to expect in terms of her being an actress. ⁓ But I feel like there were two different versions of Sugar that you get to see that I thought was really well done on her part, I guess is what I'm getting at. So Sugar, like just normal conversations, she's almost kind of dumb. Zachary Wheeler: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, she's ditzy. She plays the dumb blonde, very Marilyn Monroe character. Justin Weakley: she's yeah yeah yeah right but then when she performs I feel like she is hyper focused very like sultry very intense and serious it's the like the furthest thing from sugar as a regular character yes yes when she's performing ⁓ which I but I feel like mm-hmm Zachary Wheeler: When she mean when she's like singing and stuff. Yeah. She's doing her Marilyn Monroe thing there, Justin Weakley: Yeah, I feel like that's really a testament to how well she can act. I mean, like, Sugar is a character, I think. I don't know, she's... I think you can argue that, like, maybe she's too... I don't want to say dumb to realize what's going on, but... Zachary Wheeler: She's too cliche. She's very cliche, but she's only cliche because Marilyn like invented the that cliche like everyone's bases their stuff on her, right? Yeah, but it is it is it comes off very cliche dumb blonde now. Yeah, it doesn't it was not to spoil what ages the worst rage is the best but it does not age well because it's Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: You almost feel you're like, ⁓ you honey, don't do that. You can be, you know, there's that you can do like we watched, you know, a Catherine Hepburn movie and she's like elevates it right. And like, and she's very thoughtful. Like she comes off as very smart and witty where Marilyn Monroe's some, one of the roles she kind of got stuck in was like the dumb blonde role. There's a really, this is my second Marilyn Monroe movie I've seen. think I've seen just two. Justin Weakley: You Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah, see Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: But the first one I saw was ⁓ who wants to marry a millionaire? And it's about like three women trying to find millionaires basically. But Marilyn Monroe is really funny in it because she plays, ⁓ she like plays like. Justin Weakley: Mm. No. Zachary Wheeler: Against character like she knows she's supposed to be the dumb blonde, but she's like a smart nerdy person in it And she like wears glasses for example She can't see without her glasses in that movie So she keeps taking them off when she's around men because she's like I'm supposed to be the dumb blonde You know pretty dumb blonde and then like she like when she's trying to do it She's like fumbling because she can't find things she can't see things But like it's like kind of she like plays into the stereotype with that movie, which is it's which is I think pretty fun Justin Weakley: Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: But yeah, yeah, I like her. She's a again, she's iconic. It's like kind of cool to see an icon in action, right? You know and a movie Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I agree because I feel like I was excited to see I feel like everybody knows who Marilyn Monroe is but yeah, it was really fun to see what she was like ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. That's kind of like James Dean. He's like this icon, his look and his attitude and all that stuff. I've never seen the James Dean movie. I think we have one on our list because I gotta actually see him in action, see what his acting is all about and why he was so famous, other than just being a cool looking guy. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. ⁓ I mean, I think, I don't know, in terms of like best character, I had Jerry down for mine. I feel like just because I really enjoyed just so many of his scenes. I feel like whenever he was in scenes with Joe, ⁓ I don't know, I feel like he kind of stole a lot of them because he was just so funny. But. Mm hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, well, he's not made for best actor in this movie, right? Like he's... Justin Weakley: But mean, like, in terms of, I don't know, like, terms of all the characters... Zachary Wheeler: He didn't have when this movie came out he didn't have like the star power of like Tony Curtis or Marilyn Monroe at the time So the fact that he comes out with kind of the Oscar nominee is pretty impressive, but he's great. This is I think my fifth Jack Lemmon movie I've watched and ⁓ He's really interesting he's He is in a lot more stuff than like you as from our youth than I remembered you like do you remember that movie grumpy old men? Justin Weakley: Hmm, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you've told me about it. I mean, I know it, but... Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, he is Jack. Yeah, Jack Lemmon is the other one in Grumpy Old Men. I was like, as a kid, know, it's like, ⁓ yeah, that was him. Just as is like, you know, old and old man, you know, or yeah, but he's good. He's the another Billy Wilder movie that he's in is ⁓ The Apartment. And I think I've told you about that movie, too. And it's it's it's good. It's honestly usually considered Billy Wilder's best movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: apartment. ⁓ It's also wildly, it's comedy, it's another wild premise. Justin Weakley: Yeah. I mean after watching Jack Lemmon in this movie, yeah, I would be down to watch more movies with him because he was just really, really good. ⁓ Very highly entertaining. Zachary Wheeler: He's front and center in the apartment. He's like the lead in it. yeah. He's nominated for, that comes out the year after this movie. So like two of Billy Wilder's like considered best, some of his best considered movies like come out back to back, which is pretty impressive. Justin Weakley: Yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm Yeah, I mean I think Jerry's my favorite. I mean I like Joe. I have nothing against Joe ⁓ He was totally fine. I just Jerry Jerry stole the show for me Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. I wrote down for Tony Curtis. He kind of looks like if Tim Curry and Artie J had a baby. I feel like that's what he looks like. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah. He has some very distinct features. mean, I obviously was like researching and saw he's Jimmy Lee Curtis's dad, which like, duh, but he looks nothing like her. Like he has a very distinct look. ⁓ But Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, he does. He does. Yeah, no, I liked him. think his... The interesting thing about both of those characters, like the girl acting, I don't know if you have this later in a topic, but the girl acting is so interesting. They're like, woo, you know, they're mannerisms in the way they talk. And I do wonder, because for me, I'm like, well, that's like how anyone... Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: any guy would pretend to be a girl. Be like, ooh, my name is Josephine, you know, kind of thing. But I almost wonder if like the cliche that how we all do that as like little kids and as, know, or having a mind, I wonder if it like comes from these guys. Like these guys invented and performed the way that we all now do like the fake girl voice or whatever. That's interesting. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's highly, highly possible. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, because I think it is something like, I'm like, I wonder like, I'm like, I wonder, like, are they trying to really sell that they're women? Or is it just like, because there's no way I walk into a room, shave my beard off, put on a wig and go, hello, my name is, you know, Zach Arena. And like, no one's gonna believe for a second that I'm a girl. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. You Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: So it's like, like, I don't know if they're trying to be believable or not, right? Or there's some 59, they're like, yeah, this will pass, Justin Weakley: Yeah, I mean it's really funny to see their attempt because everything from their mannerisms to how they're dressed up but I feel like when they're walking to the train it's like their first time in their outfits and the camera pans down and it gets a shot of them from the back and you see their muscular legs. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ yeah. No, their calves are popping. Justin Weakley: I feel like it's just it's so funny. So yeah, to your point of like, how hard are they trying to act like women? But then there are just certain things that they can't you can't bash like, you know, the physique of a man's big muscly legs. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, broad shoulders and muscular legs. Let's see, any other characters like Sweet Sue or Beanstalk? of those highlights? No. Justin Weakley: I mean like they're fine. I really I don't know. I don't I don't I'm not trying to like ⁓ Spill over into worst character here. I really everybody was really good. I thought I don't know if I saw anybody that was like they're terrible Or I don't like that character. I mean even spats Columbo ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: That guy is famous for being a mob boss guy. Again, is probably one of the ages of the worst, is because the meta commentary of the time gets lost over time when it becomes less familiar. But that actor basically played the same character in other movies. And so they cast him as kind of like a meta commentary on like... Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. No. Zachary Wheeler: on like the more serious mob movies right to lend it would be like Casting al Pacino or Robert De Niro as the mob boss for in a comedic movie Yeah kind of thing I'm trying to think yeah good Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, who is your pick for best character? Zachary Wheeler: Oz God fielding the third. Oz God or Oz good. Sorry. No, I agree with you. I think Jack Lemmon is like he's this he stands out in this movie, right? Marilyn Monroe when she's on the screen. She's very captivating. You're like. Justin Weakley: You go, that's good. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: But again, like she's so iconic. I'm like, okay, I just want to like pay attention because this is the Marilyn Monroe moment. you know, but, and then I liked Tony Curtis in it. I think he's very good. He's a nice kind of like, he's not a straight man, but he's kind of a nice foil to like Jack Lemons almost. He's, he's got the, like the facial expressions and the silliness and the rubberiness of like a, Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Jim Carrey and Dumb and Dumber. Zachary Wheeler: I was gonna say like Jim Carrey but without like the you know leading my romantic interest kind of feel that Jim Carrey can sometimes have so like he's he's he's a leading man but he's also kind of diminutive which is he's like a diminutive Jim Carrey which I kind of really like and enjoy you know Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. Yeah Zachary Wheeler: Like he doesn't have quite all the super, super duper silliness, but he's got, he's got that rubbery-ness to his face and his expressions are very big. Yeah, I agree. think he's, there's a reason why he was nominated. Justin Weakley: Anyway. No, no, he's good. I really enjoyed him. Zachary Wheeler: Alright, you want to get to worst character? Justin Weakley: Yeah, I mean, okay. Well, if we take it to the actual characters, not the actors or the actresses, because I feel like from an acting standpoint, they're all really good. ⁓ But I think you can absolutely throw worse characters from there. Just Joe, Jerry and Sugar, all three, they're actually really not. They're not great people. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah, from the character, they're worse people. Sugar's not terrible, I think she's, but like... Because she's not trying to con anybody. She's just... But... Justin Weakley: No, but Sugar's motivation, and I don't know, she explicitly comes out and says it at any point, but her driving motivation is to find a rich man. Doesn't matter about love it doesn't matter because she talks about how she fell for all these saxophone players who You know just used her and kicked her to the curb whatever so she wants to find a rich man Doesn't matter and so that's all Joe needs is okay. Well, I just have to play the part and boom I can bag this girl ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Justin Weakley: So like, yeah, when you look at it from that standpoint of sugar, you know, she's not, it's so it struck me because it's so different. I feel like than what we see in modern movies, because in modern movies, I feel like people are in it for true, true love, true romance. I want to find my soulmate the right one. No, man, sugar didn't want that. She just wanted that money. And that's, that's fine. Zachary Wheeler: I'll give you give you a one guess what how to marry a millionaire is about Justin Weakley: hmm there you go so she is essentially plays like the same exact character but yeah it's hard to yeah you can't really sit here and knock on sugar too bad because both Joe and Jerry are arguably way worse they are manipulating her along with everybody else ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: I think Joe is even worse. Jerry, he's stuck in the situation. It's like his manipulation is a product of circumstance. They decided to dress like girls to escape the mob. Odd, but understandable what they're trying to do. Joe is like, all right, new plan. I'm gonna completely manipulate my way into her pants. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: I'm gonna use Josephine to get the intel. Then I'm gonna use ⁓ Shell Oil Jr. to lay down thick. I'm gonna rope in my buddy and make him go out with ⁓ Osgood so that he can, so I can steal, I can use his yacht. He's got a plan. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like he has a long-term plan. Like he just wants to have a one-night fling with Sugar. Like that's it. Yeah, it doesn't feel like he, you know, it's like, I love this girl. I wanna be with this girl. I wanna marry this girl. I didn't get that. So he goes through all this trouble to manipulate her just to sleep with her. Zachary Wheeler: No, I don't even- Yeah, or something. Yeah, like... And then I think he does catch feelings. think like the one, the genius of this movie is both of the men kind of start at this chauvinistic level and they start to, as they are women, they start to understand the woman's perspective more. Like the scene where the, you know, Jack Lemmon gets pinched in the elevator and it goes up and then comes right back down. And I love the way he smacks her. It's like very Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. ⁓ no. Zachary Wheeler: you know or smacks him. I love the way that ⁓ Daphne smacks Osgood but ⁓ you know or like the bellboy who's like you know trying to go out with Josephine kind of thing you know it's like they kind of learn and so at the end of the movie Josephine or Jo sees her singing that sad song I've given up on love or the you know whatever and then he goes up and kisses her in drag Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah. You Zachary Wheeler: And, he tells her like, he's like, don't let a man ever do that to you. You know, no man is worth this or whatever. And like, he even sees like, okay, I was, I'm, I'm the problem, you know? And, and so they both grow. It's like one of the like, kind of the redeeming factor in the make, what what Elvis's movie, I think is, ⁓ they go through all the shenanigans, you know. Justin Weakley: Hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: They dress up like women, ha ha ha, but there's like actually a point to it for their characters and their character development. Anyways, but yeah, Jack-O-Lan my best character. Justin Weakley: worst character Joe. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ Joe. you know, okay, I have a list of some bad acting characters. So I think the guy who plays little Napoleon, the like lead mob bot guy, when he's given the speech about like, that you're gonna, when he's like about to kill ⁓ spats, and he's like, son, he gets very big, and then he's like, some would say, Justin Weakley: Mmm. Okay. ⁓ at the end, at the very end. Zachary Wheeler: You're out of control. And he's like, but I don't think you're out of And it's like up and down, just very dramatic. That was one. The other mob guy that gets killed, Toothpick Charlie, when they're about to shoot and he's like, no, it's bats, no, no. It's like some of the worst acting I've ever seen. And then the other guy who I had, this is like, honestly, this is my lead contender for worst character is the henchman who as they're walking into, Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Yeah, yeah Zachary Wheeler: Florida the mob guys and spats and his crew and there's the guy flipping the quarter Some of the worst quarter flipping I've ever seen I don't know if this guy's ever flipped the quarter and today in his life before he filmed that scene he's like No, He flips it in the air and then he catches it like like a very cat. This is I don't know Pedantic and stupid but like when you flip a coin the cool way to catch it is the let it come to you, right? Justin Weakley: I didn't even see that. I need to look that up now. Zachary Wheeler: You don't like go out and grab it because you're panicking that you might not catch it. This guy's flipping it every time and he's going out and grabbing it in full panic mode. And I'm like, this kid, this actor has never flipped a quarter a day in his life. This is not his thing in real life, you know? So worst character for his quarter flipping in my opinion. Justin Weakley: And here we are almost 70 years later and he's probably rolling over in his grave so embarrassed about that coin flipping and we're here talking about it. I didn't even see it. I need to go back and look at it now because I feel like that would be funny. Zachary Wheeler: You you Yeah, I thought there was definitely some overacting by some of the side mob characters. They're just like really hamming it up. And then the coin flipping. was like, wow, that's some bad acting. ⁓ But anyways, no, I'm with you. I think Joe is the most deplorable character of the film, but he grows. learns, you know. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Zachary Wheeler: and then coin flipper is the worst character. Alright, coin flipper Hedgeman. I'm not sure if has a character that has a name in it. Alright, you want to get to what's aged the best. Justin Weakley: He does now. Yes, I have a very specific one. Okay, I think like the more serious one, the humor. Humor, think for the most part is great. But that's not why we're here. Age the best. Spats, Columbus, bodyguards, hitmen, gangsters, whatever. The casting director casting these men? Hands down, the best thing that it aged perfectly. Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Yeah. Nail on the head? Yeah. Justin Weakley: hurt like a fine wine. These men are so ugly and they are so dumb. Yeah, like without even knowing what this movie is about without knowing who these character characters are what their place is what their role is you can look at them and know you guys are bad and like you're gay. You're like you're gangsters. You look like you're just a hired hitman or muscle or something. You don't think for yourself like whoever casted those men Bravo. Zachary Wheeler: Mean and tough and... Yeah. There you go. Justin Weakley: Because they are like quintessential 1920s gangster mob looking person. Zachary Wheeler: No, that's a great call. That's a really good call. I that one a lot. had ⁓ the, just had like Prohibition as like a movie time period. Gangster Prohibition movie. Yeah, it's a great, yeah, great premise. ⁓ The hotel that they're at in Florida. That's a nice ass hotel. I was like, this is pretty swanky. I like that hotel a lot. Justin Weakley: Don't, don't get me started on that. That's under my nitpicks. Don't you take that from me. Zachary Wheeler: Okay, okay, I just saying I like when the opening shot when you first see it It's got that really pretty like atrium to the side or whatever. Yeah, that was great ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: I had a, ⁓ they recommend her, him, or when he's talking about like how he's like impotent or can't fall in love, she's like, have you seen Freud? Have you been to the Mayo Brothers? I just love that like they were alive. You think about the Mayo Clinic or Sigmund Freud, right? They're like, their philosophies are institutions. They're not people. But. Justin Weakley: what is that ⁓ yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's fine i didn't even catch that but that's really good yeah Zachary Wheeler: I I had I know you said it's kind of funny but like the mob meetings were like the families get together That's like a very cliche mob thing, but it always works And then I had I I had like the progressiveness of this movie I think it's like again we'll get into the age the worst here in a second because I do think there's things that you know are from 15 1959, but I think like I just it's cool to see like people trying to be Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: progressive in this time period. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Zachary Wheeler: Any other, those are what my list had. Any other age is the best for you? Justin Weakley: ⁓ I mean the humor was always that was my biggest but I we've we can talk for days about the humor because it's ⁓ really good ⁓ But yeah, I like I like all of yours, too. Those are really good points Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, that's great. Yeah. All right. Age the worst. Justin Weakley: You start it because I think your list is probably I have a lot of hot takes and nitpicks, but I only have one age the worst so you start age the worst Zachary Wheeler: Sure. ⁓ In the beginning scene when they're at the when Jack I keep calling him Jack not Jack lemon but when Joe and Jerry are Like I don't know what this building is that has all the music I guess like Agencies and they're knocking on the door any any work for me. No, okay I don't know what businesses this is this it's like building but ⁓ when they Justin Weakley: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: One of the women, they go, or excuse me, when it cuts away from them and it goes to the scene where they're calling for the different women, it's like the, I forget what his name is, it's like Polka something, is the agency guy. And he's calling around and he's asking, I don't know, if it's his secretary or business partner or something about different women. And they ask about one of them and she's like, ⁓ no, she ⁓ slashed her wrist. Justin Weakley: Mmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: When Valentino died, I'm like, wait, did you just casually be like, oh, we can't use her, she killed herself. I was like, whoa. Justin Weakley: I didn't even guess that one. Whoa, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Sounds like casual suicide. Okay, that doesn't age really great, you Maybe I'm like maybe it's a metaphor I'm hoping it's a metaphor but I'm like that didn't age well to me ⁓ Yeah, what was your one Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, eww. Yeah, I know. Yeah, maybe it means like she's depressed or something. I don't know. Yeah. That's a good one. ⁓ joe's guy accent ⁓ because ⁓ it bound ⁓ i don't i don't know if this was supposed to be on purpose or if just really bad accents but ⁓ it bounces from british to ⁓ i know i heard australian and then back to i sw Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. I thought it was Australian when it first started, yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I swear he he kind of rolls some like New Yorker in there too but it's just all over the place and it drives me nuts because I really I don't know. I feel like I'm always whenever you see I feel like when foreigners do American accents, it's always generally really good. But whenever you hear a bad American doing a foreign accent, it sticks out like really really bad to me and ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: This one was pretty bad. It was just everywhere. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I... It's supposed to be based on Cary Grant, which I did not get at all. I was like, nah, I don't hear that at all. Like, I think the whole persona was kind of supposed to be Cary Grant-esque, which I'm like, I don't know. But yeah, I agree with you, does not age well. It's kind of, it's a pretty goofy one, very distracting. Again, it's like very unbelievable, the disguise that he's putting on. Justin Weakley: Yeah, this is weird Hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like I feel like this is gonna sound like very overly dramatic, but I feel like I could not focus on what he was actually saying and trying to do because I was so trying to figure out his accent. Like where is he supposed to be from? What is he supposed to be doing? But that's my age the worst. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, I had when like Marilyn Monroe, like it's introduced, just like, you know, like the, like, you know, the sexy, like, you know, it's so cliche. I'm like, and I know maybe this movie started it. I don't know, but it's just like, it sticks out as like, okay, that's not aged well. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like an old school Tom and Jerry cartoon or something when they see a pretty girl. Zachary Wheeler: There's like, there's so many times too when they like fall and they're pinching butts or slapping butts. I don't know. There's like the scene where Daphne is getting on the train and she slips and Beanstalk like pats her on the butt and goes, oopsie daisy. And then she goes, she's like fresh. I'm not sure what fresh means, but in that context. But yeah, no, that didn't age well. But I mean, like I said, I think we can critique like the portrayal of. Justin Weakley: Mmm, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: a man playing a woman in drag and all that stuff and how it's played for jokes. And I think you could argue maybe that hasn't aged well and I don't know, like an overly sensitive woke time period. But I think it, I don't think it's played disrespectfully. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I I don't know I mean No, I don't think it is either and I feel like if if you were if you if for some reason it bothered you which I I don't see how it could cuz yeah, they weren't I didn't find anything disrespectful, but ⁓ I Don't know. I feel like then you would just you would have to pick apart that that is the movie That's the that's the whole thing in a nutshell is them pretending to be women. That's the the pole of it. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, but they're not doing it. I mean, it's played for laughs, but the narrative is not for like, I don't know, it's just, it's not like they're making fun of someone in drag, right? Like, or doing anything like that, you know, it's much more wholesome, I think, its approach, but. Yeah, that's all I had though for now. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Mm-hmm, for sure. Zachary Wheeler: I think like half of mine end up being nitpicks anyway, so I think I'll save them for nitpicks. Justin Weakley: Yeah, good. Hot takes in the nitpick section, coming in hot. ⁓ But first, WTF are they talking about? I know you had a lot, because you're Mr. Subtitle. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah Yeah. ⁓ For sure, alright. ⁓ I think this means alcoholism. But it says, I think it's Marilyn Monroe that says that's because I've been on the wagon. But I'm like, is she talking? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the police chief. Yeah, I know what that means. Justin Weakley: ⁓ no, it's the police chief. In the very beginning. I wrote that one down too. I have no idea. Yeah, it's over my head. No clue. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, the police chief is like half of mine. That's what it is. Not Marilyn Monroe. That's right. Thank you. ⁓ And then I think this one is the one that I wrote that I think Marilyn Monroe says like, isn't that just a bit of terrific? And I'm like, a bit of terrific. Okay. Justin Weakley: It's a weird one Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ Justin Weakley: I had down when Osgood is he's he's on the phone with Joe but he's trying to get Jerry to come aboard his yacht and he tells him I have a new batch of Rudy Valley records. I mean clearly I think that's a musician Rudy Valley is a musician but I have no idea. Zachary Wheeler: You Yeah. Well, it's like, think it's Joe that says like, this is the biggest thing since Graf Zeppelin. I'm like, is Graf Zeppelin a person? Is that a band? I have no idea what that means. It's a boat. It's a ship. It's an airship. It's a Zeppelin. He means referring to a Zeppelin airship. It's like, it's the biggest thing since airships, but totally over my head. Justin Weakley: What is that? Geez, yeah, I didn't catch that one. ⁓ These subtitles. Maybe I need to start watching with subtitles. Maybe I pick up more. Zachary Wheeler: Maryla Monroe, calls Goosebumps goose pimple-pimpolies. It's like goose pimple-y all over. Okay, don't like that. They also kept referring to the milk fund. Justin Weakley: Mmm. ⁓ yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, it's a weird one. Yeah. Yeah, what was that about? Zachary Wheeler: I think it has to do with like ⁓ depression era 1930s policy. ⁓ think it's something that ⁓ FDR put in place, but it's lost to me, right? Like no idea what they were talking about. Yeah, there's like, think there's, ⁓ a ton of names. Like he calls her a Vassar girl. I have no idea what Vassar is. ⁓ a college. ⁓ like, means smart, right? Like a smart girl. ⁓ says, ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah, I don't know Zachary Wheeler: like something about like Diamond Jim Brady. I have no idea who Jim Brady is like that. You know, like all those kind of like name references were totally lost on me. There's not too many like colloquialisms in it, but it's a lot of them come from like the police chief and he's like talking to the mob. He's like, so what do you think you're, know, it's like a vassal girl. I can't understand what he's saying half the time. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I agree. Yeah, I didn't. I only had those two. ⁓ But I do have my new category. WTF is that? ⁓ Okay, at the very end at the mob convention, what did you call him? Little Napoleon, the main mob boss? The device that he was wearing. Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Yes. Yeah, Lola Napoleon, I think is his name. Justin Weakley: He's wearing like this box on the front of his suit jacket and then it has, it looked like headphones going up into his ears. At first I was like, what on earth is that? Because it's very prominent. Like you see it, you see him wearing headphones. Like what is happening here? how and why are there, it looks like he had on like a Walkman, like an old school cassette player or something. ⁓ Well, I. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Sure. It's, do you know what, did you look up what it is? Justin Weakley: I'm gonna guess it's a hearing device. ⁓ Yeah, because yeah, like he was like turning the volume, he was turning a dial on it. And then the police chief comes and talks into it. ⁓ But yeah, it was just very, I don't know, similar to ⁓ what was it that we watched Casablanca when they had a disco ball. Zachary Wheeler: It's a hearing aid. That's a hearing aid. Yeah. Mm-hmm, and then the police chief grabbed. Yeah Yeah. Justin Weakley: just randomly in there. Seeing that thing, whatever it was, it just threw me off. It looks like a music player with headphones. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's an old school hearing aid. So my ⁓ my family still talks about this. So my my my grandma was really young when she had my parents and her parents were very young. So when ⁓ I had a great grandmother for a long time growing up and And then I think her my great-great-grandmother only died Relatively close to when I was born so I almost had like a great-great-grandmother was like missed it by just a little bit But she my great-grandma Used to have that hearing aid with the box and so people always talk about how she would call it her machine like So like I knew about it says I knew about those since I was like a little kid Because there's always like oh my machine my machine is what they would always make fun of like how she would say it and stuff Justin Weakley: No. No. That's nerdy. No. Zachary Wheeler: growing up. yeah, so yeah, those those old school hearing aids, it's pretty funny. ⁓ Yeah, there's a couple other things that I saw that I was like, I have no idea what they're grabbing or what they're referring to. I think like one time they're talking about making a phone call and he's like, call like Nellie Will 994 or whatever. But like, what? Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's like talking to the operator or something Zachary Wheeler: But it was funny to see that a herring native did it stands out like a sore thumb. Cause you're like, wait, what the hell's going on here? What is this? But yeah. All right. You want to get the sequels? Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's very, very bizarre. Yeah, let me hear your sequel pitch. Zachary Wheeler: Okay, so... They've just witnessed two big murders. The entire mob, like they got their like Rico charge going. They just arrested the entire mob in Florida. Like they're key witnesses to this, to the legal criminal ⁓ proceedings that have to happen. They're like, they're in the room for two mass murders. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. you Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: including the one that, know, like, not only can you get them pinched on racketeering charges, but you can also like now pinch them for murder, right? Like, you know, an accessory to murder. So I was like, okay, so they're going into witness protection. They got to go back in disguise again. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: this time Jerry's romantic lead because we already got like ⁓ we have to get rid of Marilyn because she's Justin Weakley: Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: she passes away relatively quickly after this movie. So without losing the character of Sugarcane, if they go on witness protection, Sugarcane can't come with them. So she's written out of the movie, but she's not written out of their lives. And then it focuses on Jerry's romance. And then the next year after this movie comes out, Shirley MacLaine plays... ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: in the apartment plays Jerry's romantic interest in that lead in that movie and they have really great chemistry in that movie. was like put Sherrilyn McClain and she's much more quirky. She's like much more suited to him than like a Marilyn Monroe is. And so I think like you got a witness protection legal comedy. They're having to dress up again because of witness protection. You get Sherrilyn McClain as the as Jerry's love interest and maybe I don't know maybe you put like Justin Weakley: to him. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: know, some other mob guys ⁓ ⁓ who are trying to get them, you know, to get them, like so that, you know, like kill them so they can get off the witness list and things like that. It'd be, it'd be fun. ⁓ my, that's my sequel. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Boom. There you go. I think it's perfect. Zachary Wheeler: Good. All right. Good. And did you have any thoughts? Justin Weakley: I really, I mean, I don't know, not as good as that. I just had like, they would go down on Osgood's yacht to, I think Joe says like, let's go somewhere tropical or somebody. They throw that out there. So. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then Jerry's like, well, we can buy bananas. We'll eat a banana, only bananas. I think we can survive there for 10 years. When they get the bracelet, when they get the bracelet, they're talking to Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah exactly. So I head down like, ⁓ yeah, I had have them all go down on Azkid's yacht somewhere tropical and like they're still on the run, they're still trying to run from maybe some other mob members that like didn't get pinched or something, but eventually Jerry would have to tell Osgood that he's a man. And like that is your big key moment. And with that whole encounter, could be fun to deal with. But no, I like your ⁓ witness protection sequel way better. Zachary Wheeler: Okay, good. All right. Also, Mike, I gotta get another reason why they would be in drag, right? I'm like, ⁓ we'll put them in witness protection and be hiding their identity. Yeah, all right. Hot takes, nitpicks, clean movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's perfect. Yes. No, there's a yeah, don't have anything. It's perfect through and through. All right. Number one nitpick. Whoever is running the mob and like planning on all the events, they have to they have to do better. Their security is terrible. One, they let in the police chief at the very beginning in Chicago. Just just let him in. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, everyone knows who he is. He's a Chicago police chief. Justin Weakley: just let him in. They asked him basic questions. He gave like whatever bullshit answers, but they okay, just go right on it. even yeah, he even that he told toothpick Charlie told him like if you want a front row seat, tell him that you're a pallbearer. So that seems like that would be high insider knowledge. And so this random Zachary Wheeler: to Mr. Mozzarella. That's the guy's name. The club owner. Mozzarella. It's so true. Justin Weakley: This random dude who you've never seen says, ⁓ and I'm a pallbearer. You know what? Go right ahead. You go right on in there. We'll get your table right up front. But then at the very end, down in Florida, they just know where the, I don't know, the police chief and all of them storm right on in and get all of the mob. Like who is nobody watching the door? Is nobody trying to tell them like, hey guys, there's a bunch of cops outside. Zachary Wheeler: Hmm. You The coin flipper was in the cake, man. He couldn't be watching the door. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I don't know, but I like just seeing how bad their planning was they got they got busted twice. Yeah, they need to do the mob needs to do better. Zachary Wheeler: Well, in their defense, I think the cops are pretty inept too. Like I had my, was one of my opening or one of my opening nitpicks. The opening scene when they're driving and the cops like four or five of them are leaning out of the car, just shooting into busy streets everywhere. I'm like, I'm pretty sure they've killed like six spy standards at least. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hey, since you bring that up, big shout out to, I guess, the stuntmen, those cops that are hanging on the side of that car, because that car does almost like a Tokyo Drift spin out. And they're hanging on to the side of it the whole time. Because I remember thinking, watching that scene, like, oh my god, they're actually doing this. These people are going to fly off the car. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Just when they were shooting at the first thing I saw was like opening scene like that, they're shooting into the public. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah cops and the mob they both need to step their game up Zachary Wheeler: What's your next one? Justin Weakley: ⁓ Okay, going back to the hotel. So I don't know if you're familiar. So that is the like famous Hotel del Coronado in San... I don't think it's in San Diego. I think it's near San Diego or next to San Diego. ⁓ But it's supposed to be in Florida. But it is such an iconic hotel now. Maybe it wasn't back then and they could just, you know, play it off and nobody was the wiser. But now, maybe I should have put this under age the worst. Looking at Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Okay Justin Weakley: it immediately. I was like, that's not Florida. What are they doing in San Diego? ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, that's like in Superman, the Christopher Reeve one. They're in New York City, right? Like it's filmed in New York. There's New York buildings, Chrysler buildings in there. And they're like, yep, it's Metropolis. And I'm like, no, not. It's New York. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah, yeah I mean not like like, know, this movie is going for full-blown realism and immersion But like I did have to double check myself because I was like they said they were going to Florida But like you see the hotel. It's not Florida. so Zachary Wheeler: Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, mean, you think you could find a set in Florida, right? yeah. I did not know that, but I'm not as cultured as you, so. Justin Weakley: Yeah, just like literally any hotel. mean it is. It's a very, it's a beautiful hotel. I mean if you, I don't know, maybe if you saw a picture of it, cause it's. Zachary Wheeler: It looked incredible. I was like, wow, this this place is looks insane. Justin Weakley: I feel like if you see a color photo, maybe it'll look more familiar, because it has a very distinct like red roof, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, it's black and white. You would never know it. But if you see like next time you're just sitting awake bored and you're on your phone, you should look it up, ⁓ because maybe you might be familiar with it. But wait. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I did not pick that up in the movie either at all. ⁓ Okay, that's it yeah No, I totally get that. It's like yeah, you're supposed to be in Yeah, they're like, ⁓ this is a shot in LA and it's like they weren't parkas because they're shooting it in Vancouver. You're like, yep That's not LA, you know I had like When they're on the run, they just are talking about how they have no money they didn't get paid because the cops broke up the ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Zachary Wheeler: the speakeasy, they can go immediately buy a whole wardrobe of women's clothing. Like how did they, where did they go get all that clothing? Justin Weakley: Yeah, and like makeup and purses and accessories everything yeah Zachary Wheeler: Everything. They buy like a whole traveling wardrobe. if I, you know, for two weeks. Justin Weakley: I yeah, they're talking they were talking they were talking about selling their like coats their overcoats just to just to get some ⁓ Yeah, yeah Yeah, I don't know maybe they went to maybe they had a goodwill back in like the 20s or something Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. Well, they did that because the next thing they're missing their coats, but they went and bet it all. Remember, they don't have any money because they lost it all on the dog. I mean they can go buy a whole wardrobe of women's clothing but they can't go buy a coat again? I don't know. That was one of my nitpicks. Alright, what do you got? Justin Weakley: ⁓ Yeah, you touched on it. Jerry's engagement to Osgood, ⁓ when Joe comes back after his overnight romp on the yacht with Sugar, Jerry is just like smitten. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: Like he's all in on this engagement. Well, it is so bizarre, because at first, mean, I would click clearly. He's like, I don't want to be left alone with this man, you know? like, he doesn't want to... It seems like them and us as the audience, we're all on the same page that Jerry does not want to be in a romantic relationship with another man. Zachary Wheeler: No, he's lost it. Justin Weakley: And then you think he's like joking about this engagement, but then as he talks, he's very serious. And Joe is like, what are you talking about? You can't marry him. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it's the most unbelievable part of the movie where you're like, like he's almost delusional and you're kind of like, it's played for jokes. It's just meant to be funny, right? it's, it's, yeah, it is like, you're like, yeah, it's like, this character's not that stupid, you know? Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that like out of all of the jokes I feel like we're told in this movie that was the one that really I feel like they just they tried to take it too far and it stretched into like okay this isn't even believable at this point like Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, at some point he's like, I know I'm a man, but he's like, you know, he's like, ⁓ but you know, if I can just get some money out of him or an annulment or whatever, get alimony the rest of my life, which is like, and then he's like, but he's still like, but you know, we were talking about our honeymoon and we should be doing, you know, whatever. I'm like, wait, do you know? Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. there. yeah it's so goofy it just i don't know that whole that whole thing it just didn't land for me it was just way too out there but because the because the rest of the movie is very grounded and real Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ The, I had ⁓ the coincidence of having the, the, the, what's it, the Italians for Opera or whatever meeting in the same hotel that they went to in Florida. I'm like, it's the, it's the movie, but I'm like, you could come up with something a little bit more like concrete into why they would be there at the same time. Justin Weakley: Yeah. It's... It's so bad. Yeah. So yeah, that was my last one as well. ⁓ So yeah, what are the odds that they are they just happen to be at the same place? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Justin Weakley: They happen to get on the same elevator as the boys. They happen to find out what room they're in while they're on the elevator. And then during their escape scene, they climb, they just happen to climb down and land in the same window that Spatz and his guys are looking at. Like, what, what are we doing here? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah Yeah, like they can't you know, they're not good at running or they're the two least lucky guys on the planet but Justin Weakley: Like you might be able to sell me on they happen to show up at the same hotel. Maybe just for fun, maybe I buy that. I buy that. You can't tell me they're going to get on the same elevator, see them in the same room, all of the things. It's just too much. It's way too much. It is just goofy. But yeah, but I guess they needed a way to try to bring it all home. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Sure. Justin Weakley: But I think that was the most egregious nitpick, I think, is just the sheer coincidence, like you say. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it's the most obvious part. I think of the movie as like a big a flaw in the writing, right? Or like late, not a flaw, but like just laziness, right? ⁓ Which is not that's not fair. But my last nitpick. So Nellie Weinmeier is the secretary at the beginning of the movie that like Tony Curtis is kind of playing. He's who he's going to borrow her car from the car that's parked in a garage. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: that a mob group is playing poker in. Who is Nellie? Like what is, why is your car there? Like it's not like it's like, ⁓ they're just happened. The mob happens to be in there and that's totally fine. When they walk in the room, a room where I'm assuming other cars are parked, like a parking garage where other cars are parked and the mob men are playing, one, they're playing poker there and two, they stand up and they, Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Zachary Wheeler: point their guns immediately at them. So they're not expecting anyone to walk into this. Unless they know them, right? So like, why is Nellie's car there? Like, what do you know? Who do you know? Like, what part of like, who's your dad, right? Like Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe, ⁓ maybe that fits into your sequel idea. Clearly Nellie has ties to the mob and... Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying like what's going on with this car's location? Nelly, who are you? What do you know? Who do you know? Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It starts. I don't know. It blurs that line of like, was this planned or was this just out of convenience so that they can just be at this spot and witness this murder and all the things. But I. Zachary Wheeler: Joe be extra careful breaking Nilly's heart. Yeah. No, they definitely they do definitely fall that like suspension of disbelief you have to have to push the characters into the situation. Because honestly, the contrivances that they use are not in my opinion, they're actually not that well written. It's just it's not to have it well written is not necessary for the movie to be good. So. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I like your theory better though, that Nellie is a part of the mob in some capacity. Zachary Wheeler: I'm just saying she's like She's like, ⁓ you know, her dad is like a mob guy and ⁓ She gets the job as the secretary at this place because you know The dad's extorting money from the music agency or something. He's like he's gonna have my daughter in there, you know kind of thing She's a she's a little nepo nepo my baby Gotta gotta cushy Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. There you go. It's perfect. Yeah, I think it fits. Zachary Wheeler: job where she doesn't have to do anything. So, she gets paid. But, anyways, that was my last nitpick. Justin Weakley: Yeah, no, that, yeah, I'm out too. I went out on the mob convention at the end. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it just is such a coincidence. It's the most unbelievable part of the movie for sure. Besides the fact that anyone could believe that these were women. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm. You Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ so let's finish up then ⁓ this be a classic? Justin Weakley: You have to stick to your choice. No take-seat back-seats this time. Zachary Wheeler: I don't know, like... Man, like watching this movie and just digesting it for the first time, it's... It's just a movie, you know, like it's not like overly like, wow, this writing is blowing me away or this plot is blowing me. The acting is so intense and so great. like. But I think a lot of that because it's a comedy and comedy is so of the time and it gets iterated on so much over time that the movie just loses its like novelness because I'm like, I don't want to punish it because. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: there's so much other stuff that we've seen because this movie exists. So, and then at the same time saying that, I find myself really thinking about this movie and how insane it is. And I just like, I get like more, I get like very excited talking about this movie, even though it's like kind of okay to me, which tells me there's something more to it than, than like my just surface. level first experience with it. Like there's just something that sticks with this movie. The who the actors were, the Marilyn Monroe-ness, the absurdity of the plot, what has to happen in the plot, the juxtaposition between mob movie and murder scenes and drag and music scenes. There's just something about it that I find like very endearing. So I'm going to give this movie, it's a classic because I did enjoy it. I don't like, would never be like, ⁓ I love this movie. I don't watch it all the time. But I found myself loving to think about this movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't know. This one's tough because I actually really did struggle with should this be a classic or not because after I got done watching it, I was very much of the mindset of absolutely not. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: No! Justin Weakley: Like we've talked about extensively, it is a fine movie. It's very funny. ⁓ But like, when I saw all of the reviews and what all the critics said, I thought to myself, like, did we watch the same movie? Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, did I miss something? That's part of what I enjoy about this movie. It's like how just respected it is and I'm like, it's whatever. Justin Weakley: Yeah, but like I think you you bring up like a really good point about how transformative this was for the time and what it pushed boundaries with back then right because like all right for example I look at Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: The original Star Wars, right? Even we missed that train. It came out way well before we were born, right? But we understand the significance of it. We understand what it did for the future generations of sci-fi movies. And I'm sure the generations that come after us, maybe they get that, maybe they won't. But for us, that is enough. I think when you look at that movie, subjectively or objectively, I don't know, it's kind of shit, right? Zachary Wheeler: Mmm. Yeah. Justin Weakley: aspects like it was really good for what it was at the time but when you compare it to stuff like Dune, Dune 2, I don't know right like by modern standards oh Dune yeah we can we we can go down that road if you want to but when you look when you look at other like modern or Blade Runner 2049 right like there's Zachary Wheeler: Oh yeah, yeah. I thought you said, I thought you said Doom. The Rock's Doom from like 2004 or whatever. I was like, I mean we can compare it to that movie but okay. Dune. Justin Weakley: Modern sci-fi movies. I know I'm going off on tangent here They arguably put it in the dirt from a lot of different aspects But because it was so revolutionary for its time it earns that classic status I think you can push me in any direction you can push me to say This is just the most movie of all movies of all time. It's just very whatever blah. It's fine. It's not bad. It's not amazing or Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: it deserves to be a classic because it was big for what it did. I can go in either camp. I mean my own personal classic movie list, nah it doesn't make the cut but Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, cause when you compare it to other things, like... I mentioned Superbad. I think that movie is very funny and very ⁓ interesting. ⁓ I love what we did in the shadows. I think that movie is like one of the funniest movies ever. And like this does not even hold a candle to the comedy in those movies, right? the way it is more frank with conversations or the way it like subverts expectations. It's, yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: I give like I said, I don't give this movie. It's a classic like there's the reason why critics give it a classic or film buffs give it a classic rating, right? Because they respect to the genre and right but like for me I give it it's a classic because I just I really for some reason I really enjoy thinking about this movie. I got like a lot of fun talking about this movie, but but but from like if I'm just looking at this movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: on my experience with it. It's whatever. I totally get where you're coming from. think it's whatever. For some reason, the myth of this movie has interested me in it. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm it does. I feel like it sticks with you because it's so It's so outrageous that it I feel like I will remember this movie for the rest of my days because it's just so it is it's kind of bizarre, but ⁓ Yeah, I don't know it's interesting Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. All right, you have to make a definitive call. Justin Weakley: I am going to... you know what? I don't care. No. It's not a classic. Not for me. I don't know. Zachary Wheeler: Cool. Billy Wilder put a quote from this movie on his grave, you know? Come on, Justin. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna stick with it. It's fun. It's very entertaining Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, no, I respect that. The very first time I watched this, I would have said the exact same thing. Like I said, it's just, I've had so much time with it now that it's just stayed with me, which is why I changed my opinion on it. I just, every time I meet someone, it doesn't come up a lot, surprisingly, but every time I meet someone who's watched some Like It's Hot, I'm like, there's two movies, this movie and there's another movie, it's on our list. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: soon that we'll watch called The Big Chill. I've told you a little bit about it. It's another one that I'm like, it's a movie, but the way it sticks with you, I'm like, like, I have so many thoughts on what happened in this movie. Justin Weakley: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I mean Yeah, so I mean the arties I feel like arguably those are the best ones that stick with you long after you roll the credits I just I don't know I think about like any any top Movie ranking lists that I would ever put together. I don't know where I would put this on any list from Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. ⁓ it's not top 100 for me, absolutely not. Justin Weakley: Yeah, right? So I guess from that standpoint, like it would be hard for me to recommend like this is a classic. You gotta watch this. Gotta see it. Like to your point, the yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. Like comparing this to Casablanca, like this is rated higher in some lists than Casablanca sometimes. Not always. Not normally, I should say, not normally, but like it's in the realm of like, it's within five movies of it. I'm like, this is not within five movies of Casablanca. Justin Weakley: That's insane. It's insane. It's insane to me. Yeah. Like, I feel like, for all intents and purposes, like this, okay, I feel like what we're talking about would be like in 50 years if there were two guys sitting down to do a podcast talking about whether or not White Chicks should be a classic movie or not. That's what it feels like. It's just. Zachary Wheeler: No, I don't think it's that bad. But maybe whether Anchorman should be a classic or not or whether, yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah, there you go. It's just, I don't know, I don't- Zachary Wheeler: I think everyone knows White Chicks is not a classic and never will be a classic. But I do think like, yeah, Anchorman or something maybe of that caliber. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to my guns. I'm gonna say Zachary Wheeler: or bridesmaids even maybe, right? Were those considered a little smarter even? Justin Weakley: Hmm. Yeah, I always forget about bridesmaids. Um, yeah, I'm gonna stick to my guns. I'm gonna say not a classic. Zachary Wheeler: Fair enough, get, hey, I was there with you. I'm probably, I'm like still there. I was still on the fence on this one. So, but you know, ⁓ I caved on Goodfellas, so maybe you'll cave next week on some like, no. Justin Weakley: No, no, I think you should reverse your decision and you should go back to Goodfellas is not a classic. Zachary Wheeler: I'm just saying, gave, you know, if we're looking at things relative, I gave Dave as a classic. like, I get it, you know. Dave is a good movie. It's a great movie. All right. Justin Weakley: That's fair. Dave is a good movie. ⁓ Yeah, I take Dave over something like that. Zachary Wheeler: No, Dave's way better. ⁓ no, yeah, it's not even close. Dave is way, yeah. I enjoy Dave a lot more. Justin Weakley: Thank you. Okay, so there you go. Put it into that context. There you go. See, here's OK. Here's where I struggle with our classic. We'll just go on a little adventure here where I struggle with our class. Is this a classic? I view it from my perspective. What I recommend this movie, but I get I get my wires crossed because then I look at like, ⁓ well, the critics love this movie and it had huge cultural significance and it did all these wonderful things and I don't give a shit. Do I like it? Zachary Wheeler: Okay, alright. Yeah. you go. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Would I recommend it? Yes, no, I don't. I don't recommend that this be a classic. Zachary Wheeler: I that's the best way to do it. So I'm with you. like I said, all right. All right. Well, I think that comes to the end of the show. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. but this is a classic. Zachary Wheeler: you guys for listening. If you guys to reach out to us, ⁓ our email is popcornandpals at gmo.com. can. ⁓ Give us recommendations for movies. You can tell us how annoying we are. ⁓ You can tell us that we have type O blood. You know, whatever, right? Whatever good... Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: God, this movie's so weird. ⁓ And ⁓ then we also have a YouTube channel that has some clips That one is Popcorn ⁓ and Pod. ⁓ So check us out there. ⁓ And then the meantime, everyone, thank you for listening ⁓ and keep that popcorn.