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Total Non-Stop Agony From Vince Russo The Rise And Fall Of TNA · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm guilty. I'm one of those podcast listeners. Except when
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I go looking for a podcast, I want to be
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: able to find it. I'll read about it on Google
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and then I go searching for it on iHeart or Spotify,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and I can't find that Rob Low interview. I can't
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: find something, Mark merindid, I can't find it. So as
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: a podcaster, it was my goal to create something that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: makes it so much easier for you to take what
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you found out and find it. Aero dot net, a
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: r OEt net, It's twenty different podcasts for you to explore. Michael, Michael,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: how are you, sir, better than my Mets? Okay, here
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is Vince Russel. You have till twenty after. You know, Vince,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I would love to see you write some scripts for baseball.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Let's put some of that in that action as well.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Let's get some writers in there, build up a good
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: little storyline going on, some drama, some action behind the scenes,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: behind the plate.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: What do you think, man, oh Man, that sounds like
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a great idea. I mean, baseball has been a passion
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of mine since gosh, I remember the Mets winning the
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: World Series in nineteen sixty nine, So that's probably how
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: far back as I go. I would love that.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So is that maybe why that you love to inspire
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: stories because baseball is so unpredictable, but yet there's so
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: much drama and it really does pull in every emotion.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and add to that just the characters. Man, you
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: had characters in baseball, I mean characters that will lodge
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: it in life.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I think about you know, Ricky Henderson, you know, setting
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the record of stolen bases and literally taking second base out.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And of course you know Barry Bonds was a character.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, you had characters up and down professional wrestling
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and in all sports. And you know it's funny because
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: the characters were the ones that got over. I mean,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: everybody knows who Dennis Rodman is. The characters are always
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: going to get you over.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I rely on those characters. In fact, they inspire me
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and inspire, you know, put me in a position of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: decision making because I'm going, what would they do in
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a place like this? And that's what I love about
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: your book here, dude, is the fact that you're giving
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: me that inside scoop. First of all, A, you're a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: writer and I love writing, and B that you give
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: me that opportunity to have my own superheroes without jumping
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: onto a comic book. Yeah, that's that's exactly it. Man.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Everybody had a role, everybody had a character, and everybody
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: was important. Yes, that's the most important thing.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: If your name was on that roster, then it was
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: my job to assist you in getting over as much
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: as I possibly could.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of the vibe that I picked up
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: when the Crocketts were here. When I first arrived in
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Carolina in eighty five. I mean, I really did sit
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: back going, how the hell is it that everybody seems
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: important here and everybody's got a place.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and compare that fast forward to twenty twenty six,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and you know, wrestling across the board.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Everybody's a wrestler. That's it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: That's that's the gimmick. The gimmick is, I'm a wrestler.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: And that's why today, you know, wrestlers are a dime
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: a dozen.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Now, Vince, you got to be very honest with me here,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: because I'm a third don in martial arts. I know
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: what it was like to go to our matches and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: when people would tell me that, oh I'm a martial
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: arts I've got this b blah blah blah, and I
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: would just sit there and go, h you know, I mean,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: did you guys act the same exact way when the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: storylines would come in, they would they would come in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: there with their you know, my guts or I'm big,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I'm proud, I'm this guy. Yeah, you know, it's like
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the opponent is Yeah.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I had that situation with Bill Goldberg, who I wanted
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: to lose to Scott Steiner, and Goldberg turned yeah. Goldberg
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: turned around to me and said, well, if this were real,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I would I would kill Scott Steiner. And I said, oh, really,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: well he's standing right over there.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Why don't you go tell him that?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, man, You're really dealing a lot with massive,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: massive egos.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Man, Well, how did you deal with that? Because I mean,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I've had more professional wrestlers inside my studio doing commercials
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: because they'll go from the smaller ones and stuff like
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that and then make their way back up to the
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: big leagues. But the fact is is that they used
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: themselves as promotional tools. They never once showed that ego
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Oh man, it's it's there, man, trust me, because you
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: got to understand that wrestling, you know, that you know,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: it was built on independent contractors. So right there, it's
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: never a team. It's never you know, everybody rooting for
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: each other. It's everybody's looking to take everybody else's spot.
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  Speaker 2: So definitely ego is involved because everybody in wrestling believes
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: that they should be the top guy.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: That you just said took me all the way back
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to Harley Race and Billings, Montana where he was there
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: one night and the ring didn't come in and they
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: had to do they to make something up, and just
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: watching him as an individual out there, I'm going, that's
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Harley Race, the man, and he's putting this thing together
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: because it was about making money for him, wasn't it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I mean everybody else got some of it, but you
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: had to do your own thing to make it work.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the difference in wrestling today too. Back then
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: you're talking about you know, Grace, like Hawley Race, it
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: was a business and it was all about making money.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: That's all the professional wrestlers cared about. You know, today,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I always say, you know you've got the marks in
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: the ring because you know, today the average professional wrestler is,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: you know, somebody that had that dream of being a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: professional wrestler at eight years old and now they're a
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: professional wrestler, and you know, they love what they do,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: but it's not a business to them. And that's the
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: difference between wrestling of yesterday and wrestling of today.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I didn't get that big thing about it
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: being about money until Ted Dbiossi came onto my screen.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I think he was the one that finally woke my
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: butt up when it said this is a business, we
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: need this, and he was the one that opened my
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: eyes to that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and definitely later on, I mean, you know, Kevin.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Nash, Yes, Scott Ball, Yeah, you know.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I mean it was all about business to them, and
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I completely understand that because you got to understand,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: professional wrestlers have a window. They can only make money
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: for so long before injuries and the bodies break down,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: so it should be business first. But it's just a
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: little different today.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I got to know how you landed that job as
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: a writer, and the reason why is because, I mean,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: how many of us out here sit here and we
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: fill out those applications all the time that the you know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the WWE is looking for writers blah blah blah blahlah
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: storytellers and you sit out and you do everything in
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the world, and then all of a sudden, here you
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: come along and going, how the hell did you do? Advance?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I was in there. I was in there. If I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't in there, it would have never happened. You know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you got to understand. I started on the magazine, so
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I was already in there, and I was already writing,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and I was already telling stories.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, at the time, I.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Just felt the WWF product was horrible. It just really was.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And in the office, I was very, very, very outspoken
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: about that, and I knew what needed to be done,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, with the company going in the wrong direction,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Vince McMahon just decided to give me a shot and
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that's how it happened.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: So now that kind of really relates with my radio career.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I kept telling the people at the station, your commercial suck,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Your commercial suck. Well, that's not your job. So I
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: went to to Clear Channel, which became iHeartRadio because they
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: told me I didn't suck. Was it the same thing.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: It's like everybody said, oh, come on, Vance, come on,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: come on, and then all of a sudden you finally
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: find a voice where you can be.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Heard absolutely one thout because nobody wants to change. Everybody
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: wants to stay in their way and do the same
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: thing over and over and over again. But back before,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you know, right before I started writing The Attitude Era.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Man, the WWF was in the red.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: They were losing money and and Vince McMahon knew, we've
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: got to do something different.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: What we're doing is not working.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And you know, that's that's how I got the opportunity
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to write The Attitude Era.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You're the reason why I sat on the other side
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of the coliseum with the ones that everybody was booing,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: because I felt that if you were gonna write about
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: it and make it seem like it was cool, then
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go see what they were doing over
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: there and just laugh about them just getting their butts booed.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you use you used a keyword, they're cool.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Wrestling used to be cool during the Monday night was
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: it was cool. Today it's more geeky than it is cool.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: See. My problem is I go in there and I
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: study it, you know, because as a martial artist, I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: want to know how they're hitting the match. I want
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to know how they're getting out of it. Even though
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: it is what it is in my heart to this day.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: It is real, honest to God fighting. You will never
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: convince me otherwise.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to believe today, man, because today it's
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a lot more acrobatics.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: It's a lot more.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: High spots and flipping and flying and things that you
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: know you would never do in a fight. I mean
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: you you just basically said you like to look at
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: it like it's real. So do I? So A lot
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: of times I'm looking at these matches and I'm like, Okay,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: if this were a real fight, would you really be
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: flipping and somersaulting and doing all of that crap?
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And the answer is no. So then are you are you?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Like what what Nathan Ritchie and I used to sit down?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: We used to do ten percent. We would sit there
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and break down a match and do ten percent and
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: do exactly what you did, break it down and understand
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the move and so that you have a better feeling
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: if it's authentic or not. So did you do the
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: ten percent training as well? Well?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I actually went to wrestling school to pick
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: up that end of it. I went to Johnny Rodds's
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: wrestling school, not because I wanted to be a wrestler
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: because I wanted to understand every facet of the business,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and that's where I first really picked up, you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the psychology of laying out matches and why wrestlers do
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: what they do. It was a great education there with
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Johnny Rodds.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Please Do Not Move. There's more with Vince Russo coming
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: up next, the name of his book, Total NonStop Agony,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: The Rise and Fall of t and A. We are
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: back with Vince Russo. When did you decide to let
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the background of the of the scene become a part
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: of the storyline, because I mean when you when I
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: started seeing that in wrestling, all of a sudden, I
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: got even deeper into the storylines.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the most important thing, because the best stories
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: are what's really happening, and the best stories are, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: what's going down in society, not only that, what's happening
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: in the company, what's happening in the locker room. Those
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: are the best stories because there's some reality, and the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: more reality you could add to it, the less the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: wrestlers have to act, and the less they have to act,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the more believable it is.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, though, how did you deal with
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: people who didn't agree with your storyline. If you've presented
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: me a manuscript of what's supposed to go on, how
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: can I complain about it. We knew what the snake
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: was when we picked it up. Yeah, it's because you know,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: they're not writers.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times with wrestlers, Yeah, they can't
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: see the forest from the trees. So in other words,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: they're looking at what they're doing that night. That's all
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: they want to know. What are we doing this night? Well,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: it's not just about this night. It's about to and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: next week and next month, and everything I write is
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: going someplace you can't look at it on a show
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: by show basis.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Did you ever have anybody that you had to write
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: for and you're going, I just don't want to write
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: for this person, And yet you still had to have
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: them because you knew what popularity was all about. You
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: had to create some stuff. Dude. Yeah, there was no
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: question about that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, back in the day, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: and he'll tell you this himself, you know, Sean Michaels
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: was a pain in the backside and absolute pain in
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the backside, and it would have been so easy to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: write him out of the show and eliminate the headache.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: But you can't do that, you know, Sean Michaels was
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: a draw and you had to have him on the show,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: So you had to deal with that man, and you
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: had to just balance that and you just had to
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: get through it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: How as a writer did you have to deal with
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: the realities of the moment. I realized that you were
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: probably maybe doing magazine or just getting into it, because
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: in my heart, magnum t A is still the people's champion.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: He is the world champion. I knew he was gonna
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: beat Rick Flair witch that I don't even think there
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: was ever a match. But the fact of the matter
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is he is still the world champion in my soul. Yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: he was great man. I love magnum Ta.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Even growing up in New York, I got to see
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of that stuff. You know, Gordon sol you,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I'll never forget and you'll remember this.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: You know, Nikita Colo, you know it always Maga Ta, like,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I absolutely love those promos. I remember
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: getting to work with Nikita or Tna and the first
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: time I ever saw him or ever met him, I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: think the first thing I ever said to him.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Was maga ta oh my god.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: But again, you know you talk about characters, that's what
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: we're talking about here.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Well, you totally set up the book in chapter one
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: with with Hulk Hogan, you know, a bald son of
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a bitch. I mean it's like, yeah, finally somebody CAW's
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: this man out.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man Hulk. You know, listen, man Hulk. I I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: would never have made the living I made had it
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: not been for Hulk Hogan. I mean, Hulk Hogan will
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: always be at the front of my Mount Rushmore, but
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: for the big, biggest star he was in the world
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: in the history of wrestling. Behind the scenes, he was
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: also the greatest player. I mean, without a shadow of
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: a doubt, he knew how to play the game. And
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: you know that's the Hulk Hogan I had to deal with.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: You know, many occasions.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Man, if I was the main CEO of any type
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of wrestling, the writing would have to be the top dog.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I realized you could have a big Brett Hard in
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: there or anybody else, But to me, the writing is
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: it because when they're when the match is over, we're
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: going to the magazines, and those magazines to me, are
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: what sells the sport. Absolutely.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: The writing is everything, and that's that's part of the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: problem today. You know, wrestlers, you know in the WWE,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you know, wrestlers are writing the show. They're not writers,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: they're wrestlers. There's a huge difference. There really is an
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: art to writing a wrestling show. You need to know
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: how to format it, you need to know how to die,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: you know, dialogue, cliffhangers. There's so much that goes into
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: writing a show. But if you've got a wrestler, you
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: know who's in charge, guess what you're gonna get wrestling.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: When are the writers going to make it to the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame? People like yourself that because I mean
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: we always see everybody gets to go into the wrestling
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, but I'm not seeing those who created
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the storylines or even found themselves in those magazines. I
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: think it's time to put them in there and make
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: them very well lit up. I don't think.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: That's ever going to happen, because I guess, bro there's
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: still a part of the business where they want people
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to believe that there aren't writers. I guess, but that
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: will never happen, and that's that's.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Fine by me. I mean, there are so many.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Worthy wrestlers that have never gone into Hall of Fame,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So that's never been something that's really important to me.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: How about the transition you've been a part of, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: my god, dude, I mean you're like in the center
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: of that. When it went from having like a sidekick
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: like baby Doll in the doubling, you know, way down
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: here in the South at WCW, and now the women
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: are like a main attraction. Dude, you have seen this
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: explode into something that sells tickets.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question about it. And I was a
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: big advocate for women's wrestling. I've always been a big advocate.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I was very very close with them, with China, I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: was very close with Sable, and then when we went
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to TNA, I mean there were so many great, great
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: female wrestlers. I just wish today you know, you've you've
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: got all these women and they dressed like cosplayers. They
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: all look the same. And again, I'm just gonna go
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: back to it, man, we need characters. Characters are what's
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: gonna make you stand out and make you unique and
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: make you important.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So did you get to be a part of the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: costume design then, because that, to me is what that
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: is so important.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: It is very, very important, and I talk about that
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: all the time. Costume design is part of your character.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You know, as I'm saying that, I mean, I remember
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: the anvil on the back of Jim Anville's backside. You
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: remember the snake going on, you know Jake's that's no
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: longer exist, and my god, man, that's because characters no
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: longer exist. The presentation is a huge part of developing characters.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I've always thought that Dusty Rhodes kids were the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: ones that were some of the final chapters of that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: because I remember when his kids were just two punk
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: kids over here at South Mack High School and all
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of a sudden they're in wrestling, and you're sitting there going,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: oh my god, this makes it even more real to me.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, And man, I got to work so
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: many years, you know, with Dustin specifically, my god, you
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: know the gold Dust character, and you know what a great, great,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: great performer Dustin Rhodse was.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: What have you personally learned about your writing now, because
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I mean when you when you do something like this
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that gets into the hearts of wrestling fans, how do
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you reach out there now to do a ya book
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: because I'd love to see you with a Ya author
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: name on your attached to your success. Yeah.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean I I write what I know, man,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: and you know what I know is honesty. And I'm
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: always always going to be honest with the audience because
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: if you're not honest with them, they're gonna see right
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: through you.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what really comes across in all
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: my books.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not afraid to name names, and I'm
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: not afraid to, you know, tell you what really happened
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: because of what the consequences may be. You know, people
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: need to really understand, you know, the wrestling business is
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: in a bowl of lucky charms. I mean there is
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: a dark side and an underbelly to this business and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: if you have dreams and aspirations of getting into it,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you need to know what it really is.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: That's why I always when I get the blessed opportunity
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to be at the wrestler, I stare into their eyes
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: because that, to me, is the window to their soul.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And man, it is about dedication, loyalty, determination, perseverance. I mean,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: it's all right there in their eyes.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I agree with you one thousand percent, but they don't
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: learn that till they're in, that's right, you know, once
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: they're in, then they understand what this business is really
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: all about.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: My god, this book is phenomenal, all right. Where can
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: people go to find out more about what you're doing, man,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: because you know that you're in touch with the heartstrings
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: of so many people, not only to day, but those
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that will be entering the world in the days ahead. Yeah.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I've been podcasting now for eleven years and this
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: is what my shows are all about. And anybody can
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: go to Russo's Brand dot com. You could, you could
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: subscribe to my podcast and also if you go there
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: now you could get a personal, personal autograph copy of
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: the book, Total NonStop Agony. Just go to Russo's Brand
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: dot com very quickly.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Do you ever listen to Freddy Prince and sit there
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: and say stop it, stop it, stop it. That's not
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the way it is. I mean, come on, I mean,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the dude's got ideas, but he ain't, you though, dude, Yeah.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: You cuss you cause you've you've you've got to know
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: both sides of it. You've got to know the wrestler
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: and you've got to know entertainment. It's really a mix
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of the both.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the future.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: The door is always going to be open for you.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Thanks man, I really appreciate you having me on. Be
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: brilliant today. Okay, sir, all right, thank you, thank you.