Latest / The Horsehuman Connection Matrix / An Interview with Korinna- from Mustang Wilderness Journey

Transcript

An Interview with Korinna- from Mustang Wilderness Journey · The Horsehuman Connection Matrix

• 0:01
  Hi, I'm Ishi Abel, and I'm here talking with my friend Corinna, who was on the Mustang Wilderness journey, and we are brainstorming things about wild horses and what can be done.
• 0:15
  Because in my feed, I keep seeing all kinds of horrendous things, and both of us are also involved in equine-assisted learning.
• 0:25
  Learning and horse training and working with mustangs.
• 0:29
  So whether the horses are domesticated, feral, or wild, the horse-human connection has been concerned about their welfare and this new, new things coming to light about how the mustangs are treated.
• 0:46
  The, Wild Burro and Horse Act of 1971 and how Congress has treated that, how BLM was, and the Forest Service have been tasked with maintaining the lands, and I can't even understand or fathom exactly what's happening as far as how these horses are treated I mentioned some of the people that I've interviewed on the show and how this information comes to me.
• 1:10
  I did not mention the interview with Tanaya Jewel and the spiritual activism, which is close to my heart because today I woke up with this fire in my belly after watching some of the videos that people have sent me.
• 1:23
  And, um I want, I wanna take some action That's...
• 1:31
  When I met Tanaya, I did not know that she was in spiritual activism.
• 1:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:41
  All she talked about was lawsuits.
• 1:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:46
  So, and, like you said, when, you push against a machine, you're only gonna get pushback.
• 1:57
  With force, there's equal force coming back at you.
• 2:00
  There's resistance.
• 2:01
  You can't...
• 2:02
  We're not gonna win, we're not gonna win this fight engaging in that kind of action.
• 2:12
  We have to do something outside the box.
• 2:15
  Outside the box.
• 2:15
  I agree.
• 2:16
  That's where I am.
• 2:17
  And the vision that I had, um, when I was talking with Tanaya was something big needs to be done to get attention.
• 2:31
  And the, you know- Yeah like I was like,"Could we just release trailer after trailer after trailer, maybe 1,000 wild horses on the Capitol?" I mean, talk about civil disobedience.
• 2:46
  And what she said was,"Yeah, but it'd probably, they'd probably end up hurting the horses or even shooting them." Mm-hmm.
• 2:53
  Yeah.
• 2:54
  And, um.
• 2:56
  Yeah.
• 2:57
  And, and I would- And that, that would certainly- It wouldn't be good for the horses.
• 2:59
  It would be counterproductive for our goals.
• 3:03
  Right.
• 3:04
  Well, maybe if there were smaller numbers, that wouldn't happen.
• 3:09
  I just, I, something big needs to be done- Well- to get attention, you know?
• 3:15
  So then this morning I started thinking, well, what if we just were able to, to match the number of wild horses that are sent to slaughter, the estimates, uh, per year, and the ones that are killed and injured in roundups.
• 3:31
  Hmm.
• 3:33
  If we could find that number.
• 3:35
  Well, okay.
• 3:36
  So and wa- and release those horses into a wild park with enough media coverage.
• 3:40
  At least, at least then, the cleanup of what happens isn't, gonna risk the lives of the horses or people- Right getting hurt.
• 3:51
  Tanaya mentioned a huge property up in Montana that's for sale and,, just, if I won the Powerball, I would buy this property and create a horse sanctuary kind of conversation.
• 4:04
  It was her saying that.
• 4:06
  I, that's the kind of thing that I think is most effective.
• 4:11
  Art can be a much more powerful way to bring attention- Mm-hmm and express something.
• 4:22
  So I had a video clip.
• 4:25
  I'm not sure, where this was taken, but there were people m- people It seemed to be in a parade type of procession, and they had, these horse, flags- for lack of a better description, or kites.
• 4:43
  And basically it was like the bust of a horse- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah but- The, the, the, those, the ghost horses With the flowing Yes.
• 4:53
  Really?
• 4:54
  Yeah.
• 4:55
  Thousands of those in a protest march with the dancing alongside it, with, you know And it would be a huge undertaking and a big powerful, um, display.
• 5:17
  But it would touch people on the other side of the brain, not their logic, and that's what you need to get into.
• 5:27
  You're absolutely right.
• 5:28
  That is a great idea, Karina.
• 5:30
  If private people, private landowners would be willing to do what Willie Nelson did, and if we could bring biologists and people that study ecosystems in to track what happens with wild horses on the land.
• 5:46
  Wild Horse Fire Brigade- Mm-hmm as far as how it can help, you know, reduce fire danger, having horses browse, because they are browsers.
• 5:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:57
  And, and the good that they do.
• 5:59
  I mean, there's...
• 6:01
  There has to be a way to get attention.
• 6:04
  Met someone through another group, um, who, who was talking about a thing that he's put- he's part of putting together.
• 6:14
  And they have a 120-year vision.
• 6:18
  Wow.
• 6:19
  Not a five-year vision, 120-year vision.
• 6:23
  And his mindset is we're not gonna see the final goal achieved, but we're, we are building it so that when we pass the torch, with that kind of future mindset.
• 6:40
  And I, I really appreciated that.
• 6:43
  And, and that is something I see with the nonprofits that is completely missing.
• 6:51
  I see so many nonprofits just locally here that, they're it.
• 6:56
  They're basically one family and th- and that's not gonna be effective.
• 7:00
  What we- It's- What needs to happen- It's not sustainable what needs to happen is these nonprofits need to come together under one umbrella and have the architecture that you're talking about that creates longevity and multi-generational, um, existence.
• 7:17
  The Constitution doesn't apply to everything that we, that we have going on in the world today, but it certainly tried and was pretty good for almost 200 years at managing and looking into the future.
• 7:29
  And maybe we don't have to go that far, but, that brings me back to this idea around what ha- what's happening with AI and how the world is changing.
• 7:39
  And it's not just the physical problem of how these horses are being treated or the imagined problem of how they're interfering with something that BLM and the Forestry Service are doing, but it's the symbolism of the wild horse and our freedom And what we experienced that first day- Mm-hmm that overwhelming emotion of these horses, 210 horses running around us- Mm-hmm that was joy and freedom, and so emotional that I, I couldn't hold it.
• 8:15
  I think people were, women were crying and, and gasping because of the intensity of it.
• 8:22
  I remember thinking,"Should I be afraid?
• 8:25
  I'm not afraid." Yeah.
• 8:27
  I r- I had the same thoughts.
• 8:28
  "What's happening here?
• 8:29
  I need to stay alert, but everything's okay." Yeah.
• 8:33
  Yeah.
• 8:33
  And I looked to the mount I was helped me realize that.
• 8:37
  Tonka?
• 8:38
  Yeah, Tonka.
• 8:40
  Yeah.
• 8:40
  The symbolism of the wild horse, uh, i- is part of the reason this needs to be preserved, and I remember something William said in the podcast that it, it struck me as extreme at the time, but then later it was like,"Oh, now I understand." He said,"If they don't survive, we won't survive." Mm-hmm.
• 8:59
  I think there's a spiritual component to that.
• 9:02
  There is.
• 9:03
  There's a spiritual nature to wild horses, that's what I wanted to show and to experience and to share on that trip was- Mm-hmm when we prepare ourselves to be in right relationship with the natural world- Mm-hmm by being present, by being regulated, by joining in group intention- Mm-hmm and feeling things somatically like horses do, where we meet them changes what happens to us creates change, and I was hoping that that in turn would create change for them that is so badly needed.
• 9:49
  I have, I have a word that just came to me.
• 9:54
  I told you that I felt like- They imparted something to us.
• 10:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:02
  And I can tell the horses I work with on a daily basis, including my own Their behavior towards me is different.
• 10:12
  There's something different.
• 10:15
  And We were part of them.
• 10:18
  When that 210 group encircled us, they embraced us.
• 10:26
  They enveloped us.
• 10:29
  We became part of them.
• 10:33
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  Not just, not just 210 individuals, but the whole.
• 10:38
  And It was a soul connection, a so- a s- a soul tie, so to speak, that I believe that is why I believe we are forever changed because Our souls are tied with theirs.
• 10:58
  We are connected.
• 11:00
  And, and I think that might be what William was speaking to on the spiritual, the spiritual death of, you know, and, and what you said with being connected to nature.
• 11:12
  We are part of it.
• 11:13
  We're not- separate from it.
• 11:17
  We're not separate from it, and so many humans don't get to experience that, that they have forgotten that or never even known.
• 11:25
  You hear stories of kids that, who grew up in the city that have no idea milk comes from a cow.
• 11:31
  What we did was exceptional, I know very few people will, have the profound experience that we were privileged to have.
• 11:42
  It was born out of deep connection, deep intention, we're messengers now And We're carrying something sacred within us.
• 11:59
  And some of that is really hard to convey and explain to people and get people excited about.
• 12:07
  That's what takes me into the creative mindset of trying to do something like that.
• 12:12
  To somehow Without impeding on their freedom Having more people experience some kind of contact with just horses like you said, domestic, all horses, not just wild ones.
• 12:34
  It's relationship.
• 12:35
  And that growing awareness now with domestic horses in the therapy world and in the learning world where we ask, we don't ask the same things of them, translates to the healing that the wild horses have with people, and that was the question of the trip.
• 12:55
  Can wild horses be useful and connect in this way?
• 12:59
  And the answer is yes, they, they can and they did.
• 13:02
  Yes.
• 13:02
  And, and now the problem is what to do with this.
• 13:07
  Like, like you said, they're in our, they're in our souls.
• 13:10
  We're linked, and now we have a responsibility.
• 13:14
  Yes.
• 13:16
  Yep.
• 13:18
  Yeah.
• 13:18
  Um, I had a thought.
• 13:22
  Let me see if I can recapture it.
• 13:25
  Oh.
• 13:27
  Hmm.
• 13:28
  So I think part of our hurdle or...
• 13:36
  There are people who, who think horses are nothing more than big rats.
• 13:42
  I have-- My, my, my father's one of them.
• 13:45
  I...
• 13:48
  And I think we're This is part of a bigger thing that's going on.
• 13:56
  There are people who are awake, and there are people who are still, like, in a zombie state where they're not really awake.
• 14:04
  They're not really thinking their own thoughts even.
• 14:06
  They're just kind of in lockstep with the machine.
• 14:09
  But we're shifting from a domination paradigm to one that is not based on domination.
• 14:17
  That goes along with a lot of other themes, like pa- patriarchy and matriarchy yeah all of those things that create control and programming that are invisible to most people.
• 14:29
  But when you begin to wake up and you begin to think for yourself about what's happening, it becomes very obvious, and the horses are representative of that.
• 14:39
  Is that what part of what you're saying?
• 14:41
  Yes.
• 14:42
  Yes, it is.
• 14:43
  Thank you.
• 14:44
  Because it's hard to, it's hard to get all these pieces in, in alignment here.
• 14:51
  Um- And, and really, I, it, it brought me so much hope and Vision for the future to see so many young people as part of our group.
• 15:08
  So there's hope that the vision will be carried forward.
• 15:11
  I think all of us are still processing and trying to understand the profound nature of what we experienced But, Willie's an old man, and it makes me curious, what does he have in place for the 700 acres and the 70 horses that he has?
• 15:32
  What vision and what, container does he have for that to continue?
• 15:38
  I So the responsibility of them.
• 15:41
  Yeah.
• 15:41
  Um, and, and, uh, th- those are important words because, you know, our thoughts become our words, our words become our deeds and actions, and that what shapes our reality.
• 15:53
  And if we go around talking about owning horses, we're really no better than slave owners in my opinion.
• 15:59
  Right.
• 15:59
  And so those distinctions are important.
• 16:01
  I also don't like to say that we use horses.
• 16:03
  I mean, I'm more likely to say we utilize, or they participate, or they're invited to, uh, you know, join in these activities or whatever it is we're doing.
• 16:13
  And people say words don't matter, but they really do.
• 16:15
  Oh, they do.
• 16:16
  These, these little shifts in our, our vocabulary, you're right, they do expand within us and change things.
• 16:28
  They, they 100% shape our reality, as- Mm-hmm does the thinking.
• 16:32
  Yes.
• 16:33
  Uh, the programmed thinking shapes the reality, which is why it's so important to bust, uh, that programming open and to question every thought.
• 16:40
  Is this true?
• 16:42
  Everything.
• 16:42
  Yeah.
• 16:42
  And, and then so to, to apply that, Ivana said that the wild horses belong to the BLM.
• 16:52
  They are owned by the government.
• 16:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:55
  Or whichever agency's in charge of whatever area.
• 17:00
  Well- I don't know that that's what the Wild Horse and Bureau Act says, and I wonder- Right I wonder about that.
• 17:08
  I mean, that's a good place to dig.
• 17:10
  Yes, because, because that, that does matter.
• 17:15
  And if, if we, if we perpetuate that mindset, well, the government owns them, they can do whatever they want.
• 17:25
  No.
• 17:27
  They be- they belong to the people, not the government.
• 17:31
  Right.
• 17:31
  The intention of the Wild Horse and Bureau Act was to protect a national resource that represents our freedom.
• 17:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:41
  That is the intention, and we are so far from that being executed today.
• 17:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:49
  I don't know what's happening to all the horses that have been rounded up.
• 17:51
  Are you Uh, how up are you on that I don't know, but I don't think we're being told the truth.
• 17:58
  Um, the fact that so many end up in the slaughter pipeline is criminal.
• 18:06
  It i- it- there's no other way to put it.
• 18:08
  It is criminal, um, because they shouldn't be landing there at all.
• 18:13
  Um, my dad thought that if there were too many on the range, they'd be rounded up, and then they were just used for dog food.
• 18:23
  That's, that's what he, he believes.
• 18:25
  He's 80...
• 18:27
  84.
• 18:29
  Um, and I said,"No, that hasn't been happening for a very long time." Um, but he's 84, and he's a Wyoming resident, and he's steeped in what he wants to believe.
• 18:47
  And I think that is something that we have to be careful of.
• 18:51
  Is it what we wanna believe, or is it true?
• 18:54
  Did someone slip in something into the language of our law and, and transfer ownership to the government We're Guardians.
• 19:05
  Stewards and guardians.
• 19:06
  We're, guardian implies protection How do we reach people?
• 19:12
  And I'm thinking, a lot of communities have their hometown days.
• 19:16
  Mm.
• 19:16
  I think you'll reach more people hitting the grassroots That's where, that's where real change starts anyway, is in our small communities I forget who I was having the conversation with, but we had a conversation about horses, wild horses going on the endangered species list.
• 19:36
  And once they're on the endangered species list, the irony here is that I don't know what happens to all the wild horses in pens, if they're slaughtered or what.
• 19:45
  But once they are on the endangered species list- The control and safekeeping of them moves into a different arena.
• 19:56
  Mm.
• 19:58
  I, I will tell you, I visited the Burns corrals.
• 20:02
  I have, too.
• 20:03
  And I cried my eyes out.
• 20:07
  Yeah.
• 20:08
  That is no existence for anything.
• 20:10
  No.
• 20:12
  And- They're like the- they're- they're like concentration camps.
• 20:17
  Yes.
• 20:17
  Whether, whether it's Nazi Germany or the, what happened to the Japanese in World War II.
• 20:23
  They don't even have shelter.
• 20:25
  No, they don't.
• 20:25
  If they were in the wild, they would find shelter in the trees or the scrub or whatever.
• 20:31
  And there's no grazing.
• 20:32
  They, they are in large pens of dust.
• 20:36
  Yes.
• 20:37
  And so what if they're fed and watered?
• 20:40
  That's not- An existence not living.
• 20:43
  That's, that's- That is not the, that is not the symbol of freedom for our country.
• 20:49
  It is- Or, or is it, Karina?
• 20:52
  Isn't that what's...
• 20:53
  I mean, isn't that exactly what's happened to us with the programming?
• 20:58
  The g- the, the government, the whole, the whole I'm the, I'm from the government and I'm going to take care of you, that is what it looks like.
• 21:07
  That is what it looks like.
• 21:09
  There is no freedom in it.
• 21:10
  It is- No, there's no freedom in it dust.
• 21:13
  And yeah, you have food and water, but your soul is dead.
• 21:18
  Your spirit is dead And that's what, that's what they gave us to be able to experience with those 210 wild horses running around us, is the joy and the freedom that even you and I can't- The aliveness hold or even comprehend because we don't live in that.
• 21:38
  Right.
• 21:39
  The aliveness of it.
• 21:41
  Yeah.
• 21:42
  It was...
• 21:44
  Oh.
• 21:45
  Oof, yeah.
• 21:46
  And you know what, Karina?
• 21:47
  In that sense, like, it's worse.
• 21:50
  It's more of an extreme.
• 21:53
  When you take something that experiences that level of freedom on a daily basis and you cage it, that is a much worse crime and sin than just taking a person and imprisoning them.
• 22:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:09
  I- Because the, the people are already in some kind of prison due to the programming.
• 22:14
  Right.
• 22:14
  Like, their freedom is not limitless like what we experienced.
• 22:18
  Right.
• 22:18
  And that makes it all the more heart-wrenching.
• 22:22
  I, honestly, the, the BLM and, and whatever other agencies that are putting horses in corrals, they're nothing...
• 22:30
  They're, they're just glorified hoarders as far as I'm concerned.
• 22:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:35
  It, it, because that's what it looks like, only, yeah, the horses are fed.
• 22:43
  Yeah.
• 22:44
  I'd, I'd like to live in a eight by eight cage for the rest of my life.
• 22:48
  A, a- and, and you know, I cr- I equate that...
• 22:52
  I, I, I am not a stall person.
• 22:58
  I, I've seen so many horses kept in a 12 by 12 stall their entire lives, and that is, that is...
• 23:07
  The only comparison I have for a human is, well, go stand in your six by four closet and, and see how it feels.
• 23:18
  Just spend a whole day there.
• 23:20
  It is.
• 23:21
  It's the same thing.
• 23:22
  It's the same thing.
• 23:22
  It is.
• 23:23
  I know.
• 23:23
  I, I moved...
• 23:24
  At one point, I moved into the city of Eugene in a, into a neighborhood, and put my horse at a, in a stall, and I put my dog in a kennel, and I went to work in a real estate office in a cubicle.
• 23:37
  And one day, I looked around- Wow and I said,'cause I, we came off of a 200 acre ranch.
• 23:41
  I looked around, I said,"Now we're all living in boxes." Yeah.
• 23:45
  And I don't like this.
• 23:47
  Yes.
• 23:47
  And they don't like this.
• 23:49
  No.
• 23:50
  Right.
• 23:51
  Right.
• 23:53
  I mean, I bring my horses in at night in their, in a stall, but it's a wide it's open.
• 23:57
  It's not walls.
• 23:59
  Right.
• 23:59
  And, and you know, there are horses that feel safe in stalls.
• 24:02
  Like, I remember when we built on the ranch, um, my, my partner built this amazing barn, which I got to help with.
• 24:09
  This beautiful, beautiful barn, and the horses were wild and free and would come to the construction like,"What are you guys doing here?
• 24:14
  What are you doing?" I remember the moment that I walked Firefly into that barn- And she looked around,'cause she's been in a lot of barns and she's old.
• 24:23
  And she looked around and she was like,"Oh, this is for us." Like, this building wasn't for you.
• 24:31
  This is our barn.
• 24:32
  And she was just so grateful.
• 24:35
  And, and she loved it.
• 24:37
  She had a safe place to have this barn now.
• 24:40
  And all of the stalls had a little run, you know, and the horses got out every day.
• 24:45
  Yes.
• 24:46
  You know, unless the weather was just horrible.
• 24:48
  And, I know, but, but domestic horses, they wanna feel safe too.
• 24:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:55
  So how- Yeah, where with wild horses- How we use the tools with, with wild horses, the safety is in the numbers.
• 25:02
  It's in the group.
• 25:02
  It's in the herd.
• 25:04
  And, um- Right.
• 25:05
  And the trade-off is the freedom.
• 25:08
  Right.
• 25:09
  Even if there's a cat.
• 25:11
  Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 25:14
  A cat is nothing compared to a helicopter and what that brings.
• 25:20
  Oh, no.
• 25:20
  Oh, no.
• 25:21
  No.
• 25:23
  No, the cat is just part of the cycle of life.
• 25:27
  The helicopter is some- something completely unnatural.
• 25:30
  Is s- it's soul death.
• 25:30
  Yes.
• 25:31
  Yeah.
• 25:31
  Yeah.
• 25:32
  Yeah.
• 25:33
  Well, I'm, I'm loving the, I'm loving that we were able to talk about all these things, just had a little bit of a flashback in my mind, and it's something that happens frequently.
• 25:44
  This one moment When, um, so I was at the back.
• 25:50
  I don't know why I did that.
• 25:52
  I just kind of gravitated toward the back.
• 25:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:55
  Um, and it was day three when we were on our way to the spring, and just as the spring was coming into view, I hear Isaac's voice,"There's a horse.
• 26:12
  There's another one.
• 26:14
  There's another one." In my memory, when I hear him, when that replays in my mind, when I hear him say that, something of recognition just rises up in me.
• 26:31
  It was before Ivanna saw them.
• 26:35
  Isaac saw them before Ivanna did.
• 26:37
  And, uh And that was the day we spent nearly an hour at the spring with them.
• 26:47
  Uh, that, that replays and there's something so different about,"There's a horse," and him saying it, and the soft excitement.
• 27:05
  It, uh, like he didn't shout it, you know, he was- There's a horse but he was excited.
• 27:12
  Yeah.
• 27:12
  There's And he does this all the time, right?
• 27:14
  Right.
• 27:14
  And- Right, right, right but, but yet there's something about that moment that, that brings back that magical energy of that experience, I don't know if there's a way to convey the enormity of the experience to anyone that wasn't there.
• 27:34
  It, it chronicles what we did, but it doesn't touch what we experienced or what we were doing there.
• 27:40
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  And, um, you know, there's just so many different perspectives to take in.
• 27:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:47
  Yeah.
• 27:49
  Well- I, I just, I love that we had the team- Uh-huh that we had.
• 27:54
  Me too.
• 27:54
  Not just our group, but Ivana and Isaac as well.
• 27:58
  Oh, yeah, the whole thing, the whole container was so important, and every participant participated in making the container.
• 28:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:06
  And, and, and every horse we were on participated in making the container, and the environment participated.
• 28:12
  It was, uh And we did all of that with, with intention.
• 28:18
  You know, and, and something so simple as every time I approached Ben, he nickered at me.
• 28:30
  And it felt like home.
• 28:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:34
  It felt And home, I guess to me, to give it another word, is belonging.
• 28:41
  Like, I was where I was supposed to be, you know?
• 28:44
  Belonging is so huge for humans, and we don't get that very much.
• 28:50
  So, so even the individual horses that were part of our team- Mm-hmm that were Rock Creek horses, played an, a very important role in this- They did whole experience.
• 29:03
  They did.
• 29:03
  Because being nickerered at every time I encountered the horse I was riding was deeply meaningful to me.
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:11
  No, the relationship that I built with Tonka, you know, and how every horse there had a different personality, uh, all of that.
• 29:19
  Yeah.
• 29:19
  You know?
• 29:19
  And then they carried us.
• 29:20
  Yeah.
• 29:20
  They carried us, and they're You know, the swaying back and forth with them, up and down the trail, created a rhythm.
• 29:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:30
  Um, and their intention.
• 29:32
  Like, I feel like they joined us in the intention.
• 29:34
  Yeah.
• 29:34
  It's all of it, just all of it.
• 29:37
  I loved your playful interaction with Tonka.
• 29:40
  He...
• 29:40
  That was so fun to watch.
• 29:43
  He was such a stinker.
• 29:44
  No, we Yeah.
• 29:45
  We just He wanted to eat.
• 29:47
  A lot of them wanted to eat, and there's plenty to eat out there.
• 29:49
  So, and- I know so, you know, I, I, I worked this with my horses years ago at the ranch when the grass would get really tall.
• 29:55
  I'm like,"Fine, take a bite of whatever you want, just don't miss a beat." Right.
• 29:58
  You know,"Keep, keep your rhythm, and you can eat while we ride.
• 30:02
  I don't care." And so we started doing that, but then I could see what was coming up better than he could, right?
• 30:08
  'Cause my head's way higher.
• 30:10
  And so I'd be, there's a good bite coming up on the left with, with green heads.
• 30:14
  And so he would do that and do this, and then he started showing me that, that they liked and can eat the, The lupine, yeah.
• 30:20
  Was it lupine?
• 30:20
  Yeah.
• 30:20
  Yeah, but they eat lupine.
• 30:21
  Ben loved those.
• 30:22
  Yeah.
• 30:22
  Yeah, and I didn't know that, and so he was sharing all that with me, too.
• 30:26
  And so that, yeah, forming that relationship.
• 30:29
  And then he convinced me every day that he deserved an apple, was rather entitled to one of the apples from lunch.
• 30:36
  So I started packing him an apple, you know?
• 30:39
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  'Cause it, we packed our own lunches.
• 30:40
  I'm like,"This one's for me.
• 30:42
  This one's for, for Ben." Or for Tonka.
• 30:45
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  I love it.
• 30:47
  I love it.
• 30:48
  Oh, gosh.
• 30:50
  It's so good to reminisce about it with you.
• 30:53
  Oh, yes.
• 30:53
  I, it brings my heart great joy.
• 30:56
  Yeah.
• 30:57
  It really does.
• 30:58
  Yeah.
• 30:58
  That's good.
• 30:59
  Yeah.
• 30:59
  It's- It's good to be reminded of, of that expansiveness.
• 31:06
  Yeah.
• 31:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:08
  Yeah, it is.
• 31:09
  Especially in light of, like, our It feels kind of like our little lives.
• 31:13
  Not that our lives are insignificant, but- Moving up and out of myself to wanting to help the mustangs- and it helps me breathe into that expansiveness outside of this small, heavy season I'm walking through.
• 31:36
  Yeah.
• 31:38
  Yeah.
• 31:39
  Appreciate that.
• 31:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:41
  Yep.
• 31:43
  Yep.
• 31:44
  Ah.
• 31:46
  This is good stuff.
• 31:47
  It's been a great conversation, Corina.
• 31:49
  Really great.
• 31:50
  Thank you.
• 31:50
  Thank you.
• 31:51
  You too.
• 31:53
  All right.
• 31:53
  All right.
• 31:54
  All right.
• 31:54
  Take care.
• 31:54
  Talk soon.
• 31:55
  Bye.