Latest / Harder Than Life / Anxious Attachment Makes You Chase People Who Can't Love You Back | Sabrina Zohar

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Anxious Attachment Makes You Chase People Who Can't Love You Back | Sabrina Zohar · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  You sent 173 texts to a guy who went silent.
• 0:03
  What was actually happening in your body?
• 0:06
  It was one of those situations that I wasn't really that into this person, but I really wanted to be chosen.
• 0:11
  In my head, I saw that as, that's my dad telling me I'm not good enough.
• 0:16
  Two pieces of advice that are ruining dating.
• 0:17
  One, if he wanted to, he would.
• 0:19
  And the second, if a guy doesn't text you every single day, it's because he doesn't like you.
• 0:22
  We're treating relationships like they're Amazon subscriptions.
• 0:24
  We want fast, we want quick, we want immediate, we want it at our door.
• 0:27
  And if it's not the way I like it, send it back and don't waste my time.
• 0:30
  I can't be uncomfortable.
• 0:32
  Dating is really uncomfortable.
• 0:34
  Relationships are, you will keep dating the parts of you that have not been healed.
• 0:37
  If we can finally get this person to love me, then I will rewrite history.
• 0:42
  You can move a mountain quicker than you can change a person.
• 0:46
  Choosing yourself is honoring, is validating your own experience, is holding space to say, I know that this might be scary, but my answer is no thank you.
• 0:55
  Who do you get to be if you're not this version of yourself?
• 0:58
  That's really scary because then what we realize is it's never been about someone else.
• 1:02
  It's always been about me.
• 1:04
  Yeah, it has.
• 1:05
  You are not broken.
• 1:06
  You are a human.
• 1:09
  My guest today sent 173 texts to a guy who had already gone silent.
• 1:13
  That same woman now hosts one of the biggest relationship shows on the planet.
• 1:18
  It's a top 0.05%.
• 1:21
  Her whole message is this.
• 1:23
  You are not broken.
• 1:24
  Those patterns are survival strategies.
• 1:27
  Your body built to keep you safe and you can rewrite them.
• 1:31
  Sabrina Zohar, welcome back to the Harder Than Life show.
• 1:35
  Oh, Kelly, it is truly my honor to be here.
• 1:37
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:39
  For those of you that don't know Sabrina, first of all, you're welcome.
• 1:42
  Second of all, go back and listen to episode 62 of the Harder Than Life Show.
• 1:48
  And she and I get deep into some things.
• 1:51
  And everything that we said then is true now, but both of us have kept along the journey.
• 1:58
  And she has ascended to superstardom.
• 2:01
  We're coming behind about to hit episode 300.
• 2:05
  I think you're right about the same.
• 2:07
  So let's get into that 173 text because I didn't ask you this the last time.
• 2:13
  You sent 173 texts to a guy who went silent.
• 2:16
  Take us back to that night and what was actually happening in your body.
• 2:21
  Oh, Kelly, I would be it would be my honor.
• 2:23
  So the reason I started the book with that story was because I knew that I'm not trying to come from a holier than thou place.
• 2:30
  I was there.
• 2:31
  I was the mess on the bathroom floor crying hysterically.
• 2:35
  And I remember it was, it was one of those situations that I wasn't really that into this person, but I really wanted to be chosen.
• 2:43
  And I think at the time I was in my twenties, I was like 23 or 24, something like that.
• 2:47
  I was, I was a baby.
• 2:49
  And I remember he, I'll never forget it.
• 2:52
  I will remember I said something stupid, something minute about wanting to go wanting to watch a different movie than he did or wanted to go to a different dinner.
• 2:59
  I mean, then he wanted to go to and,
• 3:02
  He said, I don't think this is working.
• 3:04
  And, you know, I wish you all the best.
• 3:06
  I'm not interested in pursuing this.
• 3:08
  And to the average person, I think you might go, oh, that's a bummer, right?
• 3:11
  Like, oh, I could see that, right?
• 3:13
  I don't know that we were necessarily aligned.
• 3:15
  I don't think that this was the right—I don't think we were compatible.
• 3:18
  You might cry for a second.
• 3:20
  I turned into a different person.
• 3:21
  I turned into this meltdown of, in my head, I saw that as, that's my dad telling me I'm not good enough.
• 3:27
  Yeah.
• 3:28
  And I can understand that now.
• 3:29
  Then had no clue.
• 3:31
  Then I was hell in a handbasket.
• 3:32
  I was three sheets to the wind.
• 3:34
  I remember chain smoking a pack of cigarettes, freaking out, figuring everything I was, what can I do to get him back?
• 3:40
  And so I remember he liked to bake.
• 3:42
  So I went and bought these pans so I could drop them off at his apartment in New York.
• 3:45
  And I remember just feeling tears in my eyes as I was just trying to pay for them.
• 3:50
  And the only text I got from him was that the pans don't fit in the oven, but thank you for trying.
• 3:54
  He didn't need to do that.
• 3:56
  And it was one after another because I genuinely believed on the other side of the next message was going to be the relief that I was looking for because sitting in the discomfort felt insurmountable.
• 4:06
  I couldn't fathom being that uncomfortable for that long.
• 4:10
  And now when I look back at it, I think a lot of people would look back at those moments and be shuddering, right?
• 4:15
  So embarrassed and mortified.
• 4:17
  And I can't believe I did that.
• 4:18
  I went through that part.
• 4:19
  And now I really look back and I see that girl and I just want to hug her because she was so lost and sad.
• 4:26
  And here's the best part.
• 4:28
  He ends it.
• 4:29
  I don't wait.
• 4:29
  That's it.
• 4:30
  I text him 173 times.
• 4:31
  He never answers.
• 4:32
  Two or three years later, we reconnected.
• 4:34
  I think we rematched on an app.
• 4:36
  and I saw him and I felt nothing.
• 4:39
  I felt absolutely nothing.
• 4:42
  I did not lie.
• 4:43
  And he was such a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but there was no romantic chemistry, no spark, no any of that.
• 4:50
  And that was really when I started to learn what we're chasing, right?
• 4:53
  These big feelings and the spark and that avoiding any kind of discomfort, that is really just for us to feel better in the moment, but that's not because we genuinely have this really beautiful, deep connection with this person.
• 5:05
  And they're the love of my life.
• 5:07
  And they're the one.
• 5:07
  It's like, no, that was something we call the trauma tingles, right?
• 5:10
  Like this feeling in your body.
• 5:13
  It's the feeling in your body, right?
• 5:15
  Because here's the thing.
• 5:16
  If you felt all of this intensity, right?
• 5:19
  All of the spark, but that person was not attractive or was not somebody that you'd be interested in, you would be running the opposite way.
• 5:26
  But you run towards them because it's like, well, this is what I should feel, right?
• 5:29
  But really what it was about was those were all my core beliefs coming out.
• 5:33
  That was me trying to reaffirm that I am good enough and this person is going to choose me because what was the alternative?
• 5:38
  I had to sit with my own thoughts and actually start to acknowledge and say.
• 5:42
  Either I'm not happy, this isn't what I wanted, or what does this mean about me?
• 5:46
  And I was making it mean everything about my worth instead of looking at it as this person and I are just not compatible.
• 5:52
  And it took me, what now, 10 to 12 years in order to be able to get to the mindset where when you lose something, it doesn't mean because I have to be less than or undeserving of it.
• 6:02
  It can just mean that maybe that's just not for me.
• 6:04
  Beautiful answer.
• 6:05
  What I would add to that is to just sit in your sh**.
• 6:09
  from the very beginning, because if you don't do it then, you're gonna do it later.
• 6:12
  It's going to happen or you're gonna continue.
• 6:15
  What we don't repair repeats.
• 6:18
  So let's go right into the pattern.
• 6:19
  When was the first time you noticed that this was a pattern?
• 6:23
  Truthfully, I had known there was an issue.
• 6:25
  I started therapy when I was like 19 or 20 because I was becoming obsessed with these guys.
• 6:30
  Like I would maybe have one date with them.
• 6:32
  Again, heterosexual norm is the only way I can speak about this.
• 6:35
  I would become so obsessive with the idea of these people.
• 6:38
  But I knew fundamentally something didn't feel right.
• 6:40
  And I remember every therapist, it was either here's medication or, you know, nobody was really getting down to the root of it.
• 6:46
  Where did I genuinely start to do the work was I have an episode on what my biggest heartbreak taught me on my podcast, The Sabrina Zohar Show.
• 6:54
  And really, it was the biggie.
• 6:56
  It was the man that I was with that was the closest to my father.
• 7:00
  It was the moment when he ended it with me the first time.
• 7:03
  And I remember crying hysterically.
• 7:05
  And I called my mom and I said, this has to be about me.
• 7:08
  This cannot be any more circumstantial.
• 7:11
  And that's when I started taking therapy more seriously.
• 7:13
  That's when I was committing to my weekly sessions.
• 7:15
  That's when I was...
• 7:16
  trying to understand what was coming up for me.
• 7:18
  Prior to that, I think it was more performative.
• 7:20
  I knew there was a problem and I didn't really want to do any of the work on it.
• 7:23
  I just wanted it to go away.
• 7:25
  And I was almost 28 at the time when I first started therapy.
• 7:28
  And I think in that moment, what I realized was what my mama has always said to me, when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll make a change.
• 7:35
  And I was so tired of feeling every morning and pining and crying.
• 7:41
  But the thing that I think a lot of people miss is as if starting that journey just means it's all gonna go away.
• 7:46
  I still dated schmucks for the next three or four years.
• 7:49
  I still made mistakes.
• 7:51
  I still hyper-focused.
• 7:53
  I still self-abandoned.
• 7:54
  I still did all of those things, but every single step was one step closer to becoming more self-aware, understanding where this was coming from,
• 8:03
  and being more honest with myself, which has led me to writing a book about it.
• 8:07
  Because once I noticed my pattern was, wow, all of these guys are similar to my dad.
• 8:12
  How, you say?
• 8:13
  I'll tell you.
• 8:13
  They don't look like, well, some of them look like him, it's creepy, but they don't look and talk just like him.
• 8:18
  But what they are is I felt the same way I did when I would be interacting with him.
• 8:24
  I felt less than.
• 8:25
  I felt like I had to earn his love.
• 8:26
  I felt like I had to perform.
• 8:28
  I felt like fundamentally I'm flawed.
• 8:30
  And so if I get this person to tell me I'm not, then yay, I'm good.
• 8:34
  And so I think when I started to identify the pattern, then it was really about, okay, what do I do about it?
• 8:38
  Because self-awareness on its own doesn't do f*** all.
• 8:41
  If you're just self-aware, great.
• 8:42
  Congratulations.
• 8:43
  That's a great first step.
• 8:45
  But what are you doing about it?
• 8:46
  And how are you implementing any of the changes along the way?
• 8:49
  I love how you say that because there's so many people that aren't self-aware.
• 8:52
  I just want to slap them.
• 8:54
  If you go back and listen to our podcast, you know, again, two and a half, maybe three years ago, you can tell that we've both done a lot more work.
• 9:01
  And when you just said that, I wish that once you become self-aware and you start doing the work that you think that it's going to get better.
• 9:07
  I mean, this is three years later.
• 9:09
  I'm in the middle of the mud right now, but I have the tools and the resources and the wherewithal and the self-regulation and the Sabrina's that I can reach out to and go, am I crazy?
• 9:20
  And you'll say, yeah, you are, but what do you, what do you need from me?
• 9:23
  It's never ending guys, but it's fricking worth it.
• 9:27
  We're all up against the same mountain.
• 9:28
  Every one of us has a steep climb.
• 9:30
  But what's the difference?
• 9:31
  When you don't have any tools, you don't have any knowledge, you don't have any self-awareness, you're going naked with no shoes, no clothes, and it's frigid weather.
• 9:38
  The difference is the climb doesn't become easier.
• 9:41
  You just have the tools that you need to get up it a little bit more quickly and more efficiently, and you don't make the wrong moves every single time.
• 9:47
  Well, I think it does become easier because you don't self-sabotage.
• 9:51
  You don't make it worse.
• 9:52
  That's the word I was looking for.
• 9:53
  You just don't make it worse.
• 9:54
  You go, oh, that's interesting.
• 9:57
  And then you move on.
• 9:58
  So how much of who we are in relationships was actually chosen by us and how much was programmed before we could even understand it?
• 10:07
  I dubbed this the blueprint in the new book.
• 10:09
  And the reason I did that is, well, duh, I had to.
• 10:11
  It was my cursing.
• 10:12
  My New Yorker attitude came in.
• 10:14
  But nonetheless, it's the subconscious programming that a lot of us are handed when we're kids.
• 10:19
  It's kind of the nature versus nurture, if you will.
• 10:21
  I think there is character's destiny.
• 10:23
  I think there are certain aspects.
• 10:24
  Like I have ADHD.
• 10:25
  My whole, every, almost everybody in my family has it.
• 10:28
  So there is that genetic component, right?
• 10:30
  And then there's the trauma component.
• 10:31
  And you start to look and say, where does one start?
• 10:33
  Where does one stop?
• 10:34
  What we're really looking at is, I think the two questions, not even I think, I know, the two questions that saved my life when I started doing all this work was, where did I learn this from and how old do I feel?
• 10:43
  Because it's not about villainizing your parents.
• 10:45
  This isn't about saying my parents were the worst or the best, right?
• 10:49
  But if we're going to start a sentence with, I had the perfect childhood, well, then I don't think you're being honest about the fact that not all of your needs could have been met.
• 10:55
  You can have an amazing set of parents.
• 10:57
  You can have an amazing childhood.
• 10:58
  No one's taking that away from you.
• 10:59
  But every person experiences some sort of small or big T trauma.
• 11:05
  It's the kids at school picking on you.
• 11:07
  It's the teacher that ignored you.
• 11:08
  It's your sibling pushing you and nobody's standing up for you.
• 11:11
  Those are those little death by a thousand paper cuts.
• 11:14
  Yeah.
• 11:14
  And what happens is you have to remember from zero to 18 months, we are nonverbal.
• 11:19
  So we are picking up on every facial expression, every social cue, everything that happens and creating our nervous system and the amygdala and the different parts of our brain that start to become formed in that really, really young, early life.
• 11:33
  It is now something as simple as to become more securely attached.
• 11:36
  Your caregiver has to make eye contact with you 30% of the time.
• 11:40
  It's something that minute.
• 11:42
  But Kelly, I want to see your thoughts.
• 11:43
  I don't know if you've seen this.
• 11:44
  I have.
• 11:45
  I was at the grocery store the other day and I see this kid having a full meltdown.
• 11:49
  Like I'm talking, screaming, crying.
• 11:51
  And the mom just goes, I'm done and walks off.
• 11:54
  And the kid is crying hysterically.
• 11:56
  Now, the average person watching this would say either poor mom, right?
• 12:00
  Oh, the kid is going bananas.
• 12:02
  This poor woman doesn't know what to do.
• 12:03
  And she's walking away and he's screaming, he's crying.
• 12:05
  And he said, please don't leave me, please.
• 12:08
  And then the other side of the coin is I don't think that that parent was maliciously trying to hurt her child.
• 12:13
  But what she might not realize was that act of turning away and not comforting and not attuning and not being there for your kid to teach them what it feels like to have big emotions.
• 12:23
  teaches them, see, look, people leave.
• 12:25
  I'm too much.
• 12:26
  No one's going to be there for me.
• 12:27
  I have to scream and cry to get someone's attention.
• 12:30
  That is the subconscious programming that so many of us have without realizing it.
• 12:34
  One of the stories in the book was this running joke in my house was that I always threw up as a kid after every meal.
• 12:40
  And it wasn't until I was writing the book where I finally asked my mom, could you tell me what happened before you?
• 12:46
  What do you mean I would just start crying?
• 12:47
  Did you not think that there was something wrong with that?
• 12:49
  Yeah.
• 12:50
  And she said, your father was holding you and he would put you down and you would cry, cry, cry.
• 12:54
  And he wouldn't let me go in.
• 12:55
  And so you would throw up because you knew no one was coming in and you'd be crying so hard.
• 12:59
  You built yourself up.
• 13:00
  And then my mom would come in.
• 13:01
  She would clean me up and she would put me back to bed.
• 13:04
  Well, what did that teach me?
• 13:05
  I'm not safe.
• 13:06
  I have to be big.
• 13:07
  I have to perform.
• 13:08
  I have to get someone to come in and save me.
• 13:11
  That right there is a great example of the subconscious programming that we create core beliefs and narratives around because your frittata brain as a child doesn't have a prefrontal cortex to start and going, oh, well, my dad's a narcissist.
• 13:24
  My poor mom is doing her best and he won't let her come in.
• 13:26
  What did I know?
• 13:27
  You're not safe.
• 13:28
  That was it.
• 13:29
  End of story.
• 13:30
  And once we understand that, it doesn't mean I could go back and change that, but you know what I can do?
• 13:34
  I could be the one to go in, pick her up and hold her and let her know that I'm here now because I'm no, I will never be that age again.
• 13:40
  And that is the best news I've ever had.
• 13:42
  Cause I don't have to go through that again.
• 13:43
  So you answered what the, by the way, when I was doing show prep and I was reading the blueprint, I'm like, this is so her, you said where it comes from, but what exactly in plain terms is the blueprint?
• 13:57
  It's your subconscious programming.
• 13:59
  It's the core beliefs.
• 14:00
  It's the nervous system.
• 14:01
  It's the things that you believe about yourself.
• 14:04
  It's the stories, the messages, and your blueprint is essentially then your maladaptive coping mechanisms that lead you into your adult life that end up repeating the same patterns.
• 14:13
  That's so good, Sabrina.
• 14:15
  Of course, you give it in such easily digestible stuff.
• 14:17
  I call it thoughts or magical lies.
• 14:20
  It literally is.
• 14:21
  Everything that we hold near and dear, and as I've finished up my IFS therapy, and I'm pretty integrated now,
• 14:27
  Everything that I held near and dear to my heart was absolute .
• 14:33
  I killed off my old identity and all of a sudden, I just don't care about the things that I thought I cared about.
• 14:39
  You know, we've talked candidly about when you change the name of the show and things went a little kooky and we've continued to do work on ourself.
• 14:47
  Now, something goes wrong.
• 14:48
  Like I walked in and the whole freaking podcast studio was dark, okay?
• 14:54
  Call Mark.
• 14:54
  Mark pushed back a little bit.
• 14:56
  Hey, push Sabrina back a little bit.
• 14:58
  We've had a team in here fix it.
• 15:00
  That would have come unglued a year ago.
• 15:03
  It is what it is, man.
• 15:04
  It's all happening for me.
• 15:06
  It'll all happen when it's supposed to happen.
• 15:08
  And here we go.
• 15:09
  That's part of what the work does.
• 15:10
  It gives you freedom, people.
• 15:13
  Do the work.
• 15:14
  It's awesome.
• 15:15
  Yeah, just don't call your podcast that.
• 15:19
  What happened there?
• 15:20
  I got a cease and desist.
• 15:21
  I had to change the name.
• 15:22
  Oh, that's right.
• 15:23
  Okay, that's crazy.
• 15:24
  You say these patterns are survival strategies, not proof that someone is broken.
• 15:29
  I want people to understand that.
• 15:30
  You're not broken.
• 15:31
  What exactly do you mean in your terms by that?
• 15:35
  When you have a thought, I'm not enough, there's something wrong with me.
• 15:38
  So let's go back to IFS, right?
• 15:40
  I love IFS.
• 15:41
  So when we think of internal family systems, which is Dick Schwartz, the way that he sees it, and I'm making this very simplistic.
• 15:47
  There is significantly more to IFS, but I'm just going to make it a little bit reductive here.
• 15:52
  When we think about IFS, the way that we look at it is if we've ever said a part of me, a part of me feels this.
• 15:57
  We are an amalgamation of our parts, right?
• 15:59
  So if I'm 36, I have 36 years of parts.
• 16:02
  I've got the 5-year-old, the 10-year-old, the 12-year-old, right?
• 16:04
  The angry child or the hurt little girl becomes an angry teen.
• 16:07
  The angry teen becomes the girl that slept her way through Manhattan.
• 16:10
  It's nice to meet you.
• 16:11
  And so each one of these parts starts to kind of compound.
• 16:15
  Think about it this way.
• 16:16
  When I was a kid and my father would leave and I would say, what's wrong with me?
• 16:19
  If I were prettier, maybe he would stay.
• 16:21
  If I was quieter, maybe I'm too much.
• 16:23
  He doesn't love me.
• 16:24
  He can't be with me.
• 16:25
  Why does he keep choosing other people?
• 16:27
  Did I do something wrong?
• 16:29
  That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with me.
• 16:30
  That was what I was taught.
• 16:32
  That was because I never had an adult to stop and say, Sab, your father is a narcissist.
• 16:36
  He can't love you the way that you deserve.
• 16:38
  There is nothing wrong with you.
• 16:40
  And because children have an imagination, we fill in the blanks.
• 16:44
  We have to remember kids are bottom up.
• 16:45
  Adults are top down.
• 16:47
  Bottom up means that kids feel it in their body first, but because they don't know what to do with it, then they go into their head and they intellectualize.
• 16:55
  Adults, we think about it first.
• 16:57
  We intellectualize because we'll do anything to avoid feeling the pain and the emotions and the experiences.
• 17:04
  So when we look at it through the IFS lens, if I look at it and say, I'm broken and I
• 17:10
  How are you going to fix the fact that your caregiver wasn't there for you?
• 17:13
  You can't fix it.
• 17:14
  But what you can do is you can show yourself some compassion and grace.
• 17:18
  You can love those parts of yourself.
• 17:19
  The one question that changed everything that my therapist asked me was, what parts of yourself do you not think are lovable?
• 17:26
  And my first answer was my anxiety.
• 17:28
  And that's when I realized, oh, I've been at odds with myself.
• 17:32
  If I hate those parts of me, then I'm never going to show those parts or I'm going to be embarrassed or I'm going to try to hide them.
• 17:37
  But really, all I had to ask was who taught me that that was a problem?
• 17:41
  Because if I were in the right caregivers, they would flourish and help me become the best version of myself.
• 17:46
  But instead, I was around somebody who was threatened by me having my own identity and.
• 17:51
  And so they tried to make it smaller and dim my light so that I didn't shine as bright because that made him the center of attention and not me.
• 17:57
  The problem is that when you're so young, you don't understand how to comprehend that.
• 18:00
  By the time we understand it in our adult life, your nervous system has already been programmed around all of those feelings.
• 18:06
  It's really difficult to just go, hey, just think positive.
• 18:09
  You're like, how about you go yourself?
• 18:11
  Right.
• 18:11
  That's just think positive is just the way of trying to avoid feeling versus going, yeah, I can think more positively.
• 18:19
  But you know what I can also do?
• 18:20
  The example you gave earlier, I'll give you mine.
• 18:23
  I lost thirty thousand dollars last month.
• 18:24
  That sucks.
• 18:26
  It sucked.
• 18:27
  I hired the wrong team.
• 18:28
  They really messed it up.
• 18:29
  Right.
• 18:29
  What are you going to do?
• 18:31
  Now, in the moment, was I just like, whatever, water off a duck's back?
• 18:34
  No, I cried and I mourned and I sat there, but I allowed myself to do that.
• 18:40
  I didn't have to be anything that I wasn't.
• 18:43
  Then what I do, I said, you know what, I'm going to make different choices for myself.
• 18:46
  And I'm going to get up.
• 18:47
  I'm going to be the badass owner that I always am.
• 18:48
  And I'm going to get myself out of this.
• 18:50
  And I found a way to make it back.
• 18:51
  Because it's not about what I lost.
• 18:53
  It's about what I do with that and then how I come back from it.
• 18:56
  I can't control the external.
• 18:58
  But I can control how I see it, how I view it, and how I answer.
• 19:01
  That's a choice I now get to make because I'm not six years old anymore.
• 19:04
  You bought yourself something for $30,000.
• 19:06
  You bought a lesson.
• 19:07
  And you'll be more equipped on the next one.
• 19:10
  So I have millions of dollars less.
• 19:14
  I get that with stubborn stupidity, but I've learned from my mistakes.
• 19:19
  Hey, you know what?
• 19:19
  We talked a lot about your dad on the last episode too.
• 19:23
  You've healed more.
• 19:25
  One of the power moves that I've noticed as I've integrated all these parts of me was being able to recognize the good things that they did.
• 19:33
  So here's a couple of traits that I realized that we did not talk about this.
• 19:36
  is I quit drinking cold turkey.
• 19:39
  My stepfather did that.
• 19:41
  I get up at four o'clock in the morning.
• 19:43
  My stepfather taught me that.
• 19:45
  There's so many parts of me that have made me successful.
• 19:49
  So they did a lot of bad stuff, but they did the good stuff.
• 19:53
  And as soon as I integrated the bad and those exiles, I could notice the good things and it made me lighter.
• 20:01
  What did you figure out?
• 20:03
  full transparency the only thing i positively learned from my father was my work ethic but and then the other side of the coin is but that also came from a place of fear because he kept threatening to take it from us but that would be it i i watched my father move to america he started porn theaters in midtown he had a gay club like he was a hustler he always had a different business and this and this and this and wheeled and dealed and so i learned being a business owner was a strength that you could do this on your own
• 20:29
  that that was what I idealized.
• 20:31
  That's the only real thing that I got from him.
• 20:33
  But it was interesting talking to my sister recently about my childhood.
• 20:36
  There was very little joy.
• 20:38
  There's I don't have I legitimately am not exaggerating.
• 20:41
  I don't have any memories of positive or love.
• 20:43
  I have photos that I go, oh, I remember that I was in dad's.
• 20:47
  Oh, never mind.
• 20:48
  He hit me right after that.
• 20:49
  And so it was a lot of the dichotomy of you want to love your parent because that's what you have.
• 20:55
  You learn to love them.
• 20:57
  But then you also are acknowledging that that really hurts you.
• 21:00
  And so I actually had to reconcile and thank him in my adult life for teaching me what I will never put up with again.
• 21:06
  And thank him for teaching me that I will never accept and acknowledge or put up with people that are treating me in the way he does.
• 21:12
  And I don't think I told you he's going to he's going to disown me for this book.
• 21:16
  I already was disowned.
• 21:17
  He doesn't want to talk to me anymore because I said something negative about him on on a podcast.
• 21:22
  And what I had to say was, you know what?
• 21:25
  That's the big bad wolf.
• 21:26
  The biggest fear I ever had was losing this person.
• 21:29
  So if I can lose him and I'm still OK, well, then what else am I going to lose that's going to end me?
• 21:33
  Nothing.
• 21:34
  I'm proud of you, sister.
• 21:36
  That's awesome.
• 21:37
  Thank you for saying that.
• 21:38
  And I'll tell you, my mother tried to sue me over my book.
• 21:42
  You too.
• 21:43
  Okay.
• 21:43
  You too.
• 21:44
  I just giggled and went, okay, good luck with that.
• 21:47
  We have lawyers on top of lawyers.
• 21:48
  Like we freaking thought of this before we released it.
• 21:52
  Give me a break.
• 21:53
  Anyways, I can't wait to read it.
• 21:55
  We have all the clips of it, but I just can't wait to read it cover to cover.
• 21:59
  And let's get into some of the things that we see and that you post about all the time.
• 22:04
  So how do these childhood wounds show up in the people we swipe right on as adults?
• 22:10
  So there's something called repetition compulsion.
• 22:12
  In a nutshell, what this word actually means, it's a Freudian term, is that you will keep dating the parts of you that have not been healed.
• 22:18
  And so there's a twofold to it.
• 22:20
  We hope that if we can finally get this person to love me, then I will rewrite history, right?
• 22:26
  See, my parents were wrong.
• 22:27
  My mom was wrong.
• 22:28
  My dad was wrong.
• 22:28
  I am good enough.
• 22:29
  but also that we think that it will heal those parts of us.
• 22:33
  But what ends up happening is we then just keep dating those same things because your nervous system is going, Oh, I know how to keep you safe here.
• 22:38
  This, I know.
• 22:39
  Oh, the narcissist, the guy that treats you like crap, the one who doesn't give you any attention.
• 22:43
  We know what to do here.
• 22:44
  We go into protector mode, right?
• 22:45
  We self abandon.
• 22:46
  We be the cool girl.
• 22:47
  We do everything that we need to do to get them to like us.
• 22:50
  The reason we hear healthy equals boring is because you're not dysregulated, right?
• 22:55
  We think of intermittent reinforcement is a good reason that most of us keep repeating the same patterns with the same types of people because it's the slot machine.
• 23:03
  If you went to a casino and every single time you went to the slot machine, you lost, you would not keep going.
• 23:07
  If every time you won, you'd go, it's predictable.
• 23:10
  I don't want it.
• 23:10
  But the way that it keeps you is you never know when it's going to happen.
• 23:14
  And so we have to look and say, OK, if I see a pattern in the people I'm dating, right, if they're all carbon copies of each other, I keep dating avoidance.
• 23:22
  I keep dating narcissists.
• 23:23
  I keep dating the person that's not reciprocating.
• 23:26
  We have to look and say, who taught me that this is love and how familiar does this feel?
• 23:30
  Because I can all but guarantee this is not the first time you've acted like this.
• 23:34
  And most people will say, oh, it's my first boyfriend or girlfriend from college.
• 23:38
  Okay, bring that even back further.
• 23:40
  When you're with this person and you feel dismissed or not heard, how small do you feel?
• 23:45
  Right?
• 23:45
  We go back into that IFS.
• 23:46
  How old do I feel?
• 23:48
  I feel like I'm seven years old.
• 23:49
  Okay, what happened then?
• 23:50
  Well, that's when my dad used to walk out.
• 23:51
  Oh, okay.
• 23:52
  So this has nothing to do with them.
• 23:53
  This is a very familiar feeling.
• 23:55
  And now my body will do anything to...
• 23:58
  to keep me safe in this and to get this person to change and to choose me.
• 24:02
  You can move a mountain quicker than you can change a person.
• 24:07
  I believe that God sends you lessons until you learn them.
• 24:10
  And some of us are just so stubborn and some of us just won't learn them.
• 24:14
  And that's what you mean by moving mountains versus changing some, some people just never going to change.
• 24:18
  Yeah.
• 24:19
  I mean, it was at Carl Young who said, you'll keep repeating the same patterns and call it fate.
• 24:23
  Right.
• 24:23
  Or you'll keep repeating the same things and call it fate because we keep going.
• 24:27
  We'll do it and say we see it all the time.
• 24:29
  Right.
• 24:29
  And when we think about kind of those cognitive biases, you'll say, see, I knew it.
• 24:33
  I knew this person was going to hurt me.
• 24:35
  And it's like, that's confirmation bias.
• 24:37
  Why?
• 24:37
  Because if we trail it all the way back, they probably showed a lot of signs early on that they weren't trustworthy.
• 24:43
  But we override them.
• 24:45
  We overlook them because maybe they're like my dad, like my brother, like this, like that.
• 24:49
  And we excuse it.
• 24:50
  We excuse it.
• 24:51
  Because fundamentally, you know what would need to change?
• 24:53
  I would need to love myself more than the need to be loved by other people.
• 24:56
  Because if I do, then I won't accept that shit.
• 24:59
  But if I don't actually believe that I'm better than that, I'm not going to allow better than that.
• 25:04
  I learned, we used a lot of the term love ourselves in our last show.
• 25:09
  This is what I would tell you.
• 25:10
  Once you really love yourself, you start to trust yourself.
• 25:12
  And once you trust yourself, then your standards and your boundaries are just absolutely non-negotiable.
• 25:17
  And you push away everything that's not for you.
• 25:20
  And the only thing that can make through is everything that's for you.
• 25:23
  So keep doing the freaking work, people.
• 25:25
  This stuff works.
• 25:26
  Three years later, we're both freaking chill, relax, relax.
• 25:30
  Couple less F-bombs, couple less this, that.
• 25:33
  Let's get into some words that we hear on the buzzwords that make me crazy.
• 25:38
  Red flag, nervous system deregulation, triggered.
• 25:42
  What are the differences between them?
• 25:44
  And how do you tell them apart in the moment?
• 25:47
  A red flag is a pattern of behavior.
• 25:49
  A red flag is not that they didn't open the door for you.
• 25:51
  It's that this person's disrespectful.
• 25:54
  This person's not giving you space.
• 25:55
  They're not opening up.
• 25:56
  They're not allowing you to finish a sentence.
• 25:59
  They are lying to you.
• 26:00
  Those are red flags.
• 26:01
  Those are patterns of behavior.
• 26:03
  A trigger, I'll go in order of what happens.
• 26:05
  So you see the red flag and maybe you start to notice, wow, this is the third time that person cut me off and didn't say I'm sorry.
• 26:11
  Wow, it's the third time that person was rude to a waitstaff.
• 26:14
  I don't love this.
• 26:15
  Then what ends up happening?
• 26:16
  The next step, right?
• 26:17
  Something can happen and you get triggered.
• 26:18
  A trigger is a neutral action or inaction.
• 26:22
  A trigger doesn't mean that, well, that person was disrespectful.
• 26:24
  Oh, it triggered me.
• 26:25
  No, disrespect would make anybody feel that.
• 26:28
  I don't know who would be like, oh, water up a duck's back.
• 26:30
  Okay.
• 26:31
  A trigger is something to cue to your nervous system that you are not safe.
• 26:35
  Then we go into nervous system dysregulation.
• 26:37
  The biggest misconception I see when it comes to the nervous system is that you should always be regulated.
• 26:42
  That's not physically possible.
• 26:44
  The reason we have a nervous system, the reason we have it is to keep us safe.
• 26:48
  Think of it this way.
• 26:49
  You and I are talking and we're in a cave right now.
• 26:51
  And this is back in the hunter-gatherer days.
• 26:53
  Your nervous system, you hear something outside.
• 26:55
  Your nervous system goes, we're not safe, right?
• 26:57
  Your brain is not designed to help you grow.
• 26:59
  It's there solely to keep you safe because otherwise you're dead and then you got nothing left.
• 27:04
  Yeah.
• 27:05
  If you heard it, if we heard something outside, you can make one of two options.
• 27:08
  Either you say, oh, whatever, it's just the wind.
• 27:11
  And then you get eaten by a tiger that comes in.
• 27:13
  So your brain did not keep you safe.
• 27:15
  Or you go outside and you defend and you go, oh, it was just the wind.
• 27:18
  Never mind.
• 27:19
  We're OK.
• 27:20
  Your brain is always going to default to the quickest path.
• 27:24
  They've actually shown you have your amygdala, which is in the back of your brain.
• 27:27
  We actually have a right and left.
• 27:28
  Nonetheless, we'll call it for argument's sake, the amygdala.
• 27:31
  The amygdala is the part of your brain that holds on to fear, and that stopped growing at six.
• 27:35
  That's not really fair.
• 27:36
  Then you have the prefrontal cortex all the way.
• 27:38
  One's back here, one's up here.
• 27:39
  Your prefrontal cortex is your kind of decision-making, common sense, the executive functioning, the adults in the room.
• 27:46
  It actually, you can turn your amygdala on 10 to 15 times faster than it takes for your prefrontal cortex to turn on.
• 27:54
  That's why something as simple as...
• 27:57
  Your partner shuts the door a little loudly.
• 27:59
  Maybe they didn't mean anything by it.
• 28:01
  You get triggered because maybe as a child, that's the thing that your dad used to do every single time.
• 28:06
  What happens is your amygdala fires on.
• 28:08
  He goes, I'm not safe.
• 28:09
  Maybe once you start going, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 28:11
  All right, what just happened?
• 28:12
  I'm here right now.
• 28:14
  There is no threat, right?
• 28:15
  That was my partner that just shut the door.
• 28:16
  What did that remind me of?
• 28:17
  That's how my dad used to handle things.
• 28:19
  That's not okay.
• 28:20
  Do you see how I'm coming from it from a logical understanding?
• 28:23
  Okay, that felt really overwhelming.
• 28:25
  Then I can go to my partner and say, hey, can I share something with you?
• 28:28
  When you did that, that really reminded me of how volatile my father was moving forward.
• 28:31
  Could you maybe not slam it?
• 28:32
  And your partner go, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
• 28:34
  Of course.
• 28:34
  Absolutely.
• 28:35
  Thank you for sharing that.
• 28:36
  Okay.
• 28:37
  versus when we get dysregulated, if we don't do anything to regulate and come back to the present moment, all regulating means is that I am accessing a place of choice.
• 28:47
  That's it.
• 28:48
  That's what regulating your nervous system means.
• 28:50
  You want a fluid nervous system because if I went outside and there was a man with a gun, I would hope you'd get dysregulated.
• 28:56
  Yeah, I hope so too.
• 28:57
  I want to point out that you said a trigger is neutral.
• 29:00
  It is not good or bad.
• 29:01
  It's what we assign to it.
• 29:03
  If you can intercept that, that's what you just said in a short term.
• 29:07
  You just intercept it and say, is this really true?
• 29:10
  We would solve the sacred pause right there.
• 29:13
  Boom.
• 29:14
  We would solve so much of our drama, but yet we trigger boom reaction.
• 29:19
  Lizard brain, right?
• 29:20
  You go back into, because think about it.
• 29:22
  Did you say lizard brain?
• 29:24
  Yeah, the lizard brain, right?
• 29:25
  You go back into kind of the brain that the boo.
• 29:28
  If I were to go back, think about it this way.
• 29:29
  You get triggered and you say, I feel like I'm seven years old.
• 29:32
  Do you think the seven-year-old in you can figure this out?
• 29:35
  No, the seven-year-old isn't going to figure out how to have an adult conversation.
• 29:38
  It's never done that before.
• 29:40
  My favorite thing when I get triggered, my favorite regulation technique, if I can't go for a walk or call my mom or do something, two things.
• 29:47
  Grab some sour candy.
• 29:49
  You pop a sour candy in your mouth.
• 29:50
  Your brain can't be in two places at once.
• 29:51
  You can't be freaking out about something and then your prefrontal cortex on, oh, wait, there's something sour in my mouth.
• 29:57
  Or cold ice cubes, right?
• 29:59
  The mammalian diver's response.
• 30:01
  If you hold on to cold ice cubes for 60 seconds, you will not be able to be in two places at once.
• 30:07
  People misconstrue and think that, oh, well, when I'm triggered, that's your fault.
• 30:10
  My partner should never trigger me.
• 30:12
  That's why we say a trigger is a neutral action or inaction.
• 30:15
  Your partner is going to trigger you.
• 30:17
  Your partner is going to piss you off.
• 30:18
  Your partner is going to even a Bart Simpson in their neck half the time.
• 30:20
  But it's what you do with it.
• 30:21
  It's how you communicate.
• 30:22
  It's how you have conflict regulation and repair.
• 30:24
  Because you can have conflict all day.
• 30:26
  If you don't regulate, you will not repair.
• 30:28
  Because you're constantly fighting like two children.
• 30:30
  Instead of coming back and being the adult to be able to quantify this.
• 30:35
  Understand it.
• 30:36
  And say, hey, when you slammed that door, I felt this.
• 30:40
  I felt this.
• 30:41
  Meaning, right, you're using I statements.
• 30:43
  And you're coming from a place of empowerment.
• 30:44
  Not you, you, you.
• 30:46
  It's the quickest ending to a relationship.
• 30:49
  I always giggle when I hear that you triggered me.
• 30:51
  My daughter says it and I always giggle like, oh, trust me, if I had the power to control you, I would use it for good.
• 31:00
  I would tell you non-stop, give you non-stop positive seagull energy.
• 31:06
  And so anyways, let's talk about your pushback on popular dating advice.
• 31:11
  This is literally why I love watching all of your stuff.
• 31:14
  Which piece of advice do you think is doing the most damage right now?
• 31:18
  Two pieces of advice that are ruining dating.
• 31:20
  One, if he wanted to, he would.
• 31:22
  And the second, if a guy doesn't text you every single day, it's because he doesn't like you.
• 31:25
  The reason I hate if he wanted to, he would, is because want and do are two different parts of the brain.
• 31:30
  You have one part of your brain that is going based on, I want to do this, right?
• 31:34
  I want to be a millionaire.
• 31:35
  Okay, well, I'm not.
• 31:36
  Do I not want it bad enough?
• 31:38
  No, I have trauma.
• 31:39
  I have core beliefs.
• 31:40
  I might be limited.
• 31:41
  I have circumstantial reasons.
• 31:43
  There are a lot of different variables.
• 31:44
  I understand the simplicity of it.
• 31:46
  The reason that these types of sayings do well, if they like you, you'll know.
• 31:49
  If not, you'll be confused.
• 31:51
  They, one, tie it up in a package.
• 31:52
  Oh, that's it.
• 31:53
  It's just because they don't like me.
• 31:54
  So it's a shortcut.
• 31:55
  Your brain's going, oh, figured it.
• 31:56
  Close the loop.
• 31:57
  I got an answer.
• 31:58
  The second, it omits any kind of personal accountability.
• 32:01
  Well, if they wanted to, they would.
• 32:03
  Okay, but what is that saying about me?
• 32:05
  And it's the same with the texting.
• 32:07
  If the only metric of success you have for the person that you're dating is because they text you every day, then I'm sorry, you're not ready to be in a healthy and secure relationship because you need so much more than a good morning text in order to have a healthy, secure relationship.
• 32:21
  And I think, listen, communication is very important.
• 32:23
  You're not communicating via text message all goddamn day.
• 32:26
  That is a dopamine reward loop.
• 32:28
  Your brain is constantly waiting for the next.
• 32:30
  Where's that pellet of food?
• 32:31
  When is it going to happen?
• 32:32
  Because ultimately, at the end of the day, you want safety.
• 32:35
  You want to not be uncomfortable anymore.
• 32:37
  And so you want that person to do some kind of low effort to let you know that they're still choosing you instead of going.
• 32:43
  I don't have an answer right now.
• 32:44
  And I got to sit in that.
• 32:45
  Feeling is healing.
• 32:47
  Your feeling is healing.
• 32:48
  You say some dating myth make us reject people who would be good for us.
• 32:53
  How does that happen?
• 32:55
  Did any of that happen when you first met Ryan?
• 32:57
  Oh, 100%.
• 32:58
  The reason that these dating myths help you reject the right people is because we're coming at it as that if you don't do it how I want it, then this must not be right for me.
• 33:06
  My lived experience is the only one I'm willing to accept.
• 33:09
  But we don't look that people operate differently.
• 33:11
  There are going to be plenty of people, right?
• 33:13
  When I met Ryan, he hates texting.
• 33:16
  So much.
• 33:16
  It's like the bane of his existence.
• 33:18
  And he was very clear from that throughout.
• 33:20
  He was like, I am not interested.
• 33:21
  I'm happy to have phone calls and I'm happy to FaceTime.
• 33:24
  He told me, do you know how many women ended it with him because he wouldn't send good morning texts right there?
• 33:29
  What we're doing is we're cutting off a really great person who maybe says I operate differently.
• 33:34
  I'm sorry, I'm busy.
• 33:35
  I have jobs.
• 33:36
  I'm not on my phone right now.
• 33:38
  And if somebody texts me and got upset with me that I didn't answer, it's the same thing with, well, they didn't text you, but they were on social media.
• 33:44
  We have to look at capacity.
• 33:46
  Going and texting someone takes bandwidth and capacity.
• 33:49
  And it's never, it's never just one text because then it's, well, they only text me once and they didn't do that.
• 33:55
  Do you see how it's an endless pit of needs?
• 33:57
  Because it's not actually about the other person.
• 33:59
  It's about our discomfort, not controlling the outcome.
• 34:02
  validation to people just need the number validation.
• 34:06
  It's just, it's so silly, but people don't realize everything that you require, you can supply.
• 34:11
  And once you can know that you can do that, like with your, I didn't even know about the candy and the fricking ice, but I just go for a walk out and ground.
• 34:20
  I can regulate real fast because you're going to get triggered.
• 34:23
  It happens.
• 34:24
  So it happens.
• 34:26
  I love your stuff because like I said, there's the
• 34:30
  online is an armchair expert on red flags and gaslighting and narcissism.
• 34:36
  Has all that language helped us or made dating even more scary?
• 34:42
  It's funny.
• 34:42
  I think we have more access to information than we ever have, but I've never seen stupider people.
• 34:48
  Right.
• 34:48
  We have you have at any circle everywhere you go, you can look something up.
• 34:53
  But yet now it's no, it's not the vibe.
• 34:55
  And I don't feel that.
• 34:56
  OK, but feelings aren't facts.
• 34:58
  Right.
• 34:58
  Like it's not always the correlation.
• 35:00
  I think it's a beautiful thing that we have this access to information, but it's like attachment styles, right?
• 35:07
  When attachment styles came out back in the 60s and 70s, it was a way of you understanding how you are, why you do what you do, how you tick.
• 35:15
  Now we've used them to diagnose people.
• 35:17
  People are treating everybody like they're a Tamagotchi or a Furby, being like, well, my avoidant.
• 35:22
  It's like, I'm sorry, you watched a TikTok video on it that told you something.
• 35:26
  You have no idea who this person is.
• 35:27
  It's called clickbait for a reason.
• 35:29
  And now that's it.
• 35:30
  That is gospel.
• 35:31
  And that is what I believe.
• 35:33
  And it's interesting because I talked to my mom about this and she was with my dad for almost 30 something years.
• 35:38
  And she said, you know, Sab, there was no magazines.
• 35:40
  There was no nothing telling me about narcissism.
• 35:43
  She's like, all I saw was how to make your husband happy, how to please a man.
• 35:47
  But there was nothing being like, hey, by the way, when he does this, that's unhealthy.
• 35:50
  But then we overcorrected.
• 35:52
  And now I think the pendulum is swinging.
• 35:54
  And I have people all the time arguing with me about psychological principles that even when I bring them the studies, the data, the science.
• 36:01
  Well, no, that's not what I think.
• 36:02
  You're wrong.
• 36:03
  Because for a lot of people, their delusions have to be right.
• 36:07
  So that means you ultimately are wrong because Disney didn't lie to me.
• 36:11
  I get my knight in shining armor.
• 36:12
  They're going to come and save me.
• 36:14
  I get to be a princess.
• 36:15
  And you're wrong.
• 36:16
  And that's not I don't need to work at it.
• 36:17
  And I don't need to earn it.
• 36:18
  And I think we're, I wrote about this in the book.
• 36:20
  We're at a time of like, we're treating relationships like they're Amazon subscriptions.
• 36:23
  We want fast, we want quick, we want immediate, we want it at our door.
• 36:26
  And if it's not the way I like it, send it back and don't waste my time.
• 36:29
  I can't be uncomfortable.
• 36:31
  Dating is really uncomfortable.
• 36:33
  Yes.
• 36:33
  Relationships are.
• 36:35
  I say the reason my relationship is so healthy is because it can end at any time.
• 36:39
  And we're OK with that because I want Ryan in my life, but I don't need him in my life because when I need him over want, then that means that I probably self-abandoned to keep that person there longer than they probably should be.
• 36:50
  Oh, so good.
• 36:52
  So many things.
• 36:53
  I should have asked this last.
• 36:54
  It was for the person that spirals.
• 36:57
  Yeah.
• 36:58
  The second a text goes unanswered, what's one thing they can do in that exact moment?
• 37:03
  Not what we would do, but what should someone that spirals do?
• 37:08
  Set your clock for two minutes.
• 37:10
  Close your eyes.
• 37:11
  Put your phone down.
• 37:12
  In two minutes, you'll pick it back up.
• 37:13
  Don't worry.
• 37:14
  And all I want you to do is focus on where you feel this in your body.
• 37:17
  It takes 90 seconds for an emotion to run its course.
• 37:20
  Jill Bolt Taylor.
• 37:21
  And so if we can actually allow...
• 37:22
  So let's say I did this and I close my eyes and I say, this is really heavy in my chest.
• 37:26
  Okay, texturize it for me.
• 37:28
  Is there a color, a shape, a size?
• 37:29
  Is there a temperature?
• 37:31
  Start to give it life and just focus on the feeling.
• 37:34
  Every time a thought comes in of like, but what if they don't like me?
• 37:37
  What if they don't text me?
• 37:38
  That starts that 90 seconds all over again because you're intellectualizing, but you're not letting yourself feel.
• 37:43
  Because then at the end of it, I will put every penny I have to my name right now on this.
• 37:47
  You do that for two minutes.
• 37:49
  I say in two minutes to give you some buffer time.
• 37:51
  I will put money on it.
• 37:53
  The intensity will fade.
• 37:54
  I have done it.
• 37:55
  Every single solitary client I have done this with, by the time I'm done with it, and I say, so is it still as big?
• 38:00
  No, it feels like it dissipated.
• 38:01
  It's not as heavy.
• 38:02
  It doesn't hurt as much because you're actually allowing yourself to go through the emotion instead of gaslighting yourself to saying, no, no, I'm not allowed to feel this, and I shouldn't, and I shouldn't.
• 38:11
  What you resist, persist.
• 38:13
  It's going to keep coming out.
• 38:15
  Give yourself one minute.
• 38:16
  Then fine, you want to text that person, go ahead.
• 38:17
  You want to blow up their phone?
• 38:19
  You'll become me in the beginning of the book.
• 38:22
  If we can give ourselves the power of the pause, literally one to two minutes to make a different choice, you will see your life change.
• 38:30
  Two minutes.
• 38:30
  That's nothing, people.
• 38:32
  I love that answer.
• 38:33
  I love it.
• 38:34
  What's the difference between, I think people get this wrong, a boundary and a wall.
• 38:39
  Like what's the difference between a boundary and a wall?
• 38:42
  A wall keeps people out.
• 38:43
  A boundary protects what's in.
• 38:45
  It's funny.
• 38:45
  When my editor and I were talking about the book, she said, you need a chapter on boundaries.
• 38:48
  And I was like, do I really?
• 38:49
  Yeah, no, I did.
• 38:50
  I did.
• 38:50
  She's right.
• 38:51
  She wasn't wrong.
• 38:52
  A boundary is I need to do this for myself to show up more sustainably.
• 38:56
  A boundary is I want you in my life, but this is how I can show up in order to facilitate that.
• 39:02
  For example, if my boundary is I don't answer the phone after nine o'clock, I'm in bed by eight, which is literally mine.
• 39:08
  I'm in bed by 830.
• 39:09
  I do not pick my phone up.
• 39:11
  If you call me at 930, you did not cross my boundary.
• 39:14
  Maybe you didn't listen to me.
• 39:15
  Maybe you forgot.
• 39:16
  Maybe you're a human and didn't even realize what time it was.
• 39:19
  If I answer, I just crossed my own boundary.
• 39:22
  I said I wasn't going to do it, and then I did it, which then would lead you to believe that I don't hold my boundaries, right?
• 39:28
  That I could do anything, she's gonna answer.
• 39:30
  Versus a wall, a wall comes from fear.
• 39:33
  A wall is, I don't wanna get hurt, I'm not going to do this, I need to protect myself.
• 39:37
  A boundary is a protection from a place of empowerment.
• 39:40
  And so I think it's really about looking because the biggest difference here is a boundary can be flexible.
• 39:45
  So for instance, if I say I don't answer the phone after nine, but Kelly, you and I are dating and you say, but baby, I don't get off until 930 one night a week.
• 39:52
  Would you be willing to call me that night just to make sure I get home safe?
• 39:56
  It's flexible.
• 39:57
  I go, okay, fine.
• 39:58
  Wednesday night we do our call, but every other night I'm in bed by nine.
• 40:01
  Okay, got it.
• 40:01
  Okay.
• 40:02
  A wall is rigid.
• 40:03
  It's a protective barrier because underneath it, I don't think anybody really trusts themselves.
• 40:09
  That's why they have to put walls up that are so high that nobody can actually get in because they're terrified about what happens if they do.
• 40:15
  It's a false protective barrier.
• 40:16
  I liked your voice that you made of me, by the way.
• 40:19
  If you text me at nine o'clock at night or 9.30 at night, I text you back at 4 a.m. just to mess with you.
• 40:25
  Because I get up at 4 a.m. and I'm like, okay, you're going to text me when I'm sleeping?
• 40:28
  I'm going to text you when you're sleeping.
• 40:31
  I know everybody was like, you answer your emails that early.
• 40:33
  Why are you up?
• 40:33
  I'm like, because I go to bed at 830.
• 40:35
  I'm like, we've been through this.
• 40:36
  I go to bed early.
• 40:36
  I wake up early.
• 40:37
  I'm up at 430.
• 40:39
  I am more productive.
• 40:40
  I am better.
• 40:41
  I am a pigeon brain at night.
• 40:42
  But that again, because I set that boundary with you to keep you in my life, not to push you out of it.
• 40:49
  Yes.
• 40:50
  Let's beat a dead horse.
• 40:51
  We did this in the last show.
• 40:52
  Let's do it again.
• 40:53
  What does choosing yourself actually cost and why is the cost so worth paying?
• 41:02
  Choosing yourself could be something as simple as saying no when you want to say yes.
• 41:06
  Choosing yourself could be something as simple as that doesn't work for me.
• 41:10
  And I think we've over-conflated that choosing yourself means bubble baths and face masks and all this grandiosity.
• 41:16
  Choosing yourself just means that you love yourself more than the need to be loved by other people.
• 41:21
  That you are saying, I know that what I need matters.
• 41:24
  And if I don't stand up for myself, no one else will.
• 41:27
  Choosing yourself comes with a big cost.
• 41:29
  And the big cost is you're going to lose people.
• 41:31
  You're going to lose people that have benefited from you never saying no.
• 41:35
  You're going to lose people.
• 41:35
  I talk about one of my clients in the book who drove like four hours to bring soup to her friend who was sick because she was so scared of saying no instead of just ordering the girl something from takeout and sending it.
• 41:45
  Because when we're so terrified, that's again, that's actually a trauma response.
• 41:48
  Freeze or fawn, right?
• 41:50
  I just want to appease.
• 41:51
  That's why I say people pleasing can be manipulative.
• 41:56
  You're not doing it because you genuinely believe that.
• 41:58
  You're doing it because you're scared of what happens if you don't do that.
• 42:01
  You don't want to lose this person.
• 42:03
  You don't want them to be mad at you.
• 42:04
  You don't want to disappoint them.
• 42:05
  You're not intentionally manipulating anybody, but the behavior can be.
• 42:10
  That was what changed me and Ryan.
• 42:12
  I don't know if I'd shared this on the last time, but I'll share it now.
• 42:14
  When we first went out, we slept together on the first date.
• 42:17
  And I remember, like, candidly speaking, I just hadn't gotten laid in a while and I really wanted to have a good night.
• 42:23
  And my dog had just passed away.
• 42:25
  By no means was I in any headspace to take anything seriously.
• 42:29
  And we had a good time and we went to dinner.
• 42:31
  And I looked at him and I said, listen...
• 42:32
  I might not be in the place to jump into a relationship tomorrow, but I do know this about myself.
• 42:37
  I don't do casual.
• 42:37
  I don't do hookups.
• 42:38
  Tonight, honestly, I just needed to get laid.
• 42:40
  That was a lot of fun.
• 42:40
  Thank you so much.
• 42:41
  But if you call me, that's because you actually want to build something here.
• 42:44
  You're not looking for a hookup or something casual.
• 42:46
  If you are, don't waste my time.
• 42:47
  And he was just like, oh, okay.
• 42:49
  And people asked him later, why did you call her again?
• 42:52
  And he said she was more afraid of losing herself than she was afraid of losing me.
• 42:55
  And that was really sexy.
• 42:57
  Because I knew if I chose, if I, okay, I'll do whatever you want.
• 43:00
  Yeah, yeah, you want me to come in over at 11 o'clock at night?
• 43:02
  Sure.
• 43:03
  Get f***ed.
• 43:04
  No way, man.
• 43:05
  Just because I did that that night doesn't mean it's going to be every single night that I turn up the same way.
• 43:10
  But really what it's about is choosing yourself is honoring, is validating your own experience, is holding space to say, I know that this might be scary, but my answer is no thank you.
• 43:21
  Again, I'm going to say this again because I know you pretty well.
• 43:23
  I'm really proud of you because you did say that in the first one, but you articulated it so much more deep and understanding for the audience.
• 43:32
  So thank you for that.
• 43:33
  You write that we are not governed by our pasts.
• 43:36
  For someone who feels defined by theirs, where do they even start?
• 43:41
  Eventually, we have to say, are you using your past as an explanation or an excuse?
• 43:46
  Eventually, we do, right?
• 43:47
  We have got to understand and say, sure, listen, I could sit all day and go, well, but I do this because of my father.
• 43:53
  Great.
• 43:54
  What are you going to do about it?
• 43:55
  I explain.
• 43:56
  This is where this comes from.
• 43:58
  This is why I feel this.
• 43:59
  This is how it is.
• 43:59
  And then this is the steps I'm doing to start to rewrite that versus, well, that's just who I am, right?
• 44:05
  That knee-jerk reaction of like, well, that's just who I am.
• 44:08
  And I don't change.
• 44:08
  I'm not going to change.
• 44:09
  And why are you...
• 44:10
  then that's just a rigidity.
• 44:11
  For me, your past doesn't need to dictate your future.
• 44:15
  It can just explain the behaviors that have got you to where you are.
• 44:19
  Now, that doesn't mean that it's just like, wave a magical wand and it all goes away.
• 44:22
  But what that does mean is, am I gonna learn from it?
• 44:25
  Or am I just gonna keep excusing my behavior?
• 44:27
  That's a choice I get to make.
• 44:28
  And that's what most people don't wanna hear.
• 44:30
  As a child, I didn't have any choices.
• 44:32
  You're right.
• 44:32
  What am I gonna do?
• 44:33
  Go to my dad and be like, hey, I'd love if you stopped doing this, right?
• 44:36
  This doesn't really work for us.
• 44:37
  Yeah, that's gonna end well.
• 44:39
  But now as an adult, I do get to make choices.
• 44:41
  And I think that scares a lot of people because when we realize we get to make choices, then we also realize that we play a part in our own suffering because we're allowing behavior.
• 44:48
  We're allowing and we're not showing up maybe any differently than we would normally potentially show up because we're scared of the outcome.
• 44:55
  What does healing actually look like day to day past the Instagram version of it?
• 45:01
  Healing is messy.
• 45:02
  It is sad.
• 45:04
  Healing could look like my sister and I went to go see No Doubt a couple of months ago.
• 45:08
  And that was a healing experience for both of us.
• 45:11
  It was us having a moment together that we didn't get to have when we were kids.
• 45:15
  It was us reconnecting over something we both loved growing up.
• 45:19
  That's a healing experience.
• 45:20
  What we're looking for is corrective experiences to our nervous system.
• 45:23
  Something healing could be you being vulnerable to somebody that you've never have and they give you a hug instead of yell at you.
• 45:28
  That's a healing experience.
• 45:30
  Healing.
• 45:30
  Healing could mean I woke up and I didn't cry today.
• 45:33
  So what I did was I meditated.
• 45:34
  Great, you're on your way.
• 45:35
  I think what we see is that I will be fully healed and I'll never feel sad again.
• 45:40
  Whoever told you that is lying to you because if somebody is coming as if they have figured it all out, that is called a grifter.
• 45:46
  That is somebody that is b****** you because they want to take your money to give you this proverbial fake end point that doesn't exist.
• 45:53
  If this is the most healed I'll ever be, unsubscribe.
• 45:56
  I have so much more to do.
• 45:58
  I am constantly evolving and learning because every single day a trigger happens.
• 46:03
  I use that trigger as an opportunity to understand myself, to get curious, to hold space and to be realistic.
• 46:09
  Does that mean I'm perfect?
• 46:10
  No, but that's also healing, is allowing yourself to be imperfect.
• 46:14
  And that's not the shit you see on Instagram.
• 46:16
  I got it.
• 46:17
  And I've been thinking about this a lot.
• 46:18
  I think it was one of your reels.
• 46:21
  But if you say, this is just how I am, I want you to ask yourself another question.
• 46:26
  do you like your life?
• 46:29
  Because it usually is people that say that are not in a good place and are not happy with their life.
• 46:35
  So if you keep saying that, I challenge you, if you like your life, then keep being that way.
• 46:40
  If you don't,
• 46:42
  Here's how you do the work.
• 46:44
  Listen to our shows, change, and live your best life.
• 46:47
  Because I got a newsflash for you.
• 46:49
  You watch my Instagram.
• 46:50
  I'm living the best life I've ever lived.
• 46:52
  I am in joy, peace, and freedom from doing the hard things over and over and over again.
• 46:59
  So stop on your and come join us over here.
• 47:04
  I also struggle a little bit with that.
• 47:07
  I hear people say, we'll never be fully healed.
• 47:11
  And I agree, but when I hear that, it's a lot like somebody saying, that's just how I am.
• 47:16
  It feels like it's a, oh, tomorrow will never come, so I'm not even gonna chase it.
• 47:22
  What's your opinion on that?
• 47:24
  My take on you'll never be fully healed is more of a way, at least in my world, to understand that there's no end game, that there's no proverbial end point.
• 47:33
  There's not, because I hear, usually what I hear is, I need to heal before I get into a relationship.
• 47:37
  I need to be fully healed before I get a partner.
• 47:40
  That's where I say, but there is no such thing as being fully healed.
• 47:44
  It's like saying, I'm just going to cut my arm off and then I won't notice it.
• 47:46
  It's like, no, you have these parts of you.
• 47:48
  You can't get rid of them, but you can become the adult of them.
• 47:52
  You can drive the car.
• 47:53
  You can choose the life that you're going to live in.
• 47:55
  You can choose the future you're going to have.
• 47:57
  When I started my entire career, I never popped to piss in.
• 47:59
  I had me, my dog and I were living in Venice.
• 48:02
  I could barely afford rent.
• 48:03
  I'd gotten sent home from a shark tank, but I knew I had something to say.
• 48:07
  And I have every single day, I learn, I grow, I heal, and I evolve because there is never going to be an ending.
• 48:12
  If I came and said, that's it, I healed my anxious attachment style, then I'd be lying to you because then tell me what happens when my dad shows up and all of a sudden I get triggered and I go back to being six years old.
• 48:21
  But what I learned was I now have the tools to handle it and to make it shorter, kind of what we talked about earlier, to lighten the blow, lessen the intensity, and to make it shorter.
• 48:30
  And have it to where you go, okay, I've been through this before.
• 48:32
  I'll get through it again.
• 48:34
  Because a lot of us act as if we're snowflakes.
• 48:35
  You're not a f***ing snowflake.
• 48:36
  You're not that unique and special.
• 48:38
  We all are having a collective experience.
• 48:40
  And if you think no one gets you, then you're just trying to put yourself on an island because it's easier.
• 48:45
  I would say this.
• 48:46
  My number one question.
• 48:47
  Who do you get to be if you're not this version of yourself?
• 48:51
  Yeah.
• 48:51
  If you can let go of the story and the narrative of I'm the hot mess, I'm the one that always struggles.
• 48:55
  Who do you get to be if you let go of that narrative?
• 48:58
  I'm the person that has success, that receives and doesn't have to struggle.
• 49:03
  But the struggle has become my identity.
• 49:05
  It's become my crutch to become this learned helplessness.
• 49:08
  So then who do I get to become when I get rid of that?
• 49:11
  That's really scary because then what we realize is it's never been about someone else.
• 49:15
  It's always been about me.
• 49:17
  Yeah, it has.
• 49:18
  Well, when you got to look in that mirror and it's you, it's harrowing.
• 49:23
  I like to say I'm healed enough today.
• 49:26
  I love that.
• 49:28
  And I'm better than I was yesterday.
• 49:30
  So that's why I don't like these absolutes and this...
• 49:35
  And I can never say nevers and all that stuff.
• 49:38
  I'm curious about Ryan.
• 49:40
  Did he ever, because I've been doing, when I got to the IFS work, I realized what was holding me back when I talked about it in our last episode.
• 49:49
  I said, I'm hitting a ceiling and I can't figure out what it is.
• 49:53
  Now I saw it was, I'm not worthy.
• 49:55
  I'm not good enough.
• 49:57
  I'm unlovable and I am bad.
• 49:59
  And then underneath those exiles,
• 50:02
  And boy, you know as well as I do, where can you make that true in being a slut or a man whore or whatever?
• 50:11
  I could make that true.
• 50:12
  And I was one of the best at it.
• 50:14
  But once I integrated those, beneath it was an absolute victim, shame, exile.
• 50:21
  I had to be the victim.
• 50:24
  And boy, did I make that my mantra.
• 50:27
  And it was operating so low.
• 50:30
  It was about...
• 50:31
  four, I think it was the fifth or sixth exile below everything.
• 50:37
  And it didn't come out until I literally was wrong in relationship.
• 50:43
  It happened at the perfect timing and it came out and I went, Oh, this just all happened for me.
• 50:47
  It was perfect.
• 50:48
  When I told you I'd had troubles with my relationship, that's what was going on.
• 50:52
  And it was all because I was going a little too deep
• 50:54
  I'll take accountability in IFS.
• 50:57
  I did a year's worth of IFS in five months.
• 50:59
  I know you're surprised.
• 51:00
  I do things very, very hard.
• 51:03
  I happen to have her on my show.
• 51:05
  She knew I've done the work.
• 51:06
  I said, let's go aggressive because I want the show to blow up.
• 51:10
  And she said, okay, but if anytime you get overwhelmed, we have to slow down.
• 51:16
  And no, I just kept powering through.
• 51:19
  Don't do it that way.
• 51:20
  Don't do it.
• 51:21
  My audience is built around the idea that life is harder than we admit.
• 51:26
  What does harder than life fight look like inside our closest relationships?
• 51:32
  Your relationship is going to be the mirror of every single thing that you have been avoiding dealing with.
• 51:38
  That's why I'm like, you want to know the harsh reality of a healthy and secure relationship?
• 51:41
  Your partner is going to piss you off.
• 51:42
  Your partner is going to disappoint you.
• 51:44
  Your partner is going to let you down because we have this fallacy that the one, right, that one magical creature on this planet is supposed to satisfy every need.
• 51:53
  But no, what it really is, is we need community.
• 51:55
  We need more people around us.
• 51:56
  We need friends.
• 51:57
  We need a family.
• 51:58
  We need other people to satisfy different needs.
• 52:00
  And I think the reality is Ryan and I every single day choose each other.
• 52:04
  And if we have a day or a week or a month or a year where we say I'm no longer doing that, then that's part of the conversation we're going to have.
• 52:12
  The reason relationships can be so much harder than life is we don't get to run away from
• 52:17
  We don't get to just go, well, I'm not going to answer this, so I'm just going to ignore them.
• 52:19
  But your partner's right in front of you.
• 52:20
  You don't get to just be like, well, I'll talk to you in two weeks.
• 52:22
  You're like, good luck having a relationship.
• 52:25
  You are faced with it.
• 52:26
  You can't really run away.
• 52:27
  No, you can.
• 52:28
  There's plenty of people that do.
• 52:29
  But at least if you're going to be living more authentically and vulnerably and be really, really in touch with your feelings, you're going to realize how much hard work relationships are.
• 52:37
  It's like when I started my business.
• 52:38
  I thought it was just going to be fun and I can travel and I can expense everything.
• 52:41
  And are you f***ing?
• 52:42
  kidding me this is the everyone gets paid before me and everybody else gets it and then you're the last one and people idealize well you have a flexible schedule and you're like you don't see me working at two in the morning when i'm up having a panic attack on my phone people miss out on those aspects because we see the highlight reel
• 53:00
  But the reality is it is hard, but it's worth it.
• 53:03
  We get to choose our hard every single day.
• 53:05
  I could either stay in the same shit I was in and be miserable and sad, or I can choose a new reality.
• 53:10
  And that is the hard that I get to choose is the one that I actually have control over because we are so obsessed with having control of the outcome that we completely lose sight of the fact that you can't do that, but you can control yourself.
• 53:22
  That's all I have.
• 53:23
  I have to clip that for that's the new heart of life mantra.
• 53:26
  It's so beautiful.
• 53:27
  And I tell you that you get to choose your heart in this world.
• 53:30
  And I'd rather choose hard in a growth way than the same heart.
• 53:35
  I don't want to be on life's merry-go-round and just puke.
• 53:37
  I did it.
• 53:38
  And I'm just tired of it.
• 53:39
  I just want to be in peace and freedom.
• 53:42
  And that comes with choosing the hard path, which usually leads you to an easy life.
• 53:48
  So I thought that every bed that I was in in my 20s was going to lead me to a different place.
• 53:53
  And that was me repeating the patterns.
• 53:55
  I would so much rather right now cry in the mornings and sit with my feelings than be delusional enough to think that around the next bend and around the next block was going to be my savior.
• 54:05
  And that is literally why I wrote this book is because why am I like this?
• 54:10
  Yeah, I want to understand why am I like this.
• 54:11
  But you know what?
• 54:12
  I want to know more.
• 54:13
  Why is intellectualizing?
• 54:14
  I want to understand what the fuck is.
• 54:15
  I want to understand
• 54:16
  can I do with it?
• 54:16
  How can I empower myself and how can I change my life?
• 54:18
  That is what I can focus on.
• 54:20
  The more I wallow in why, the less I actually focus on what, how, when and where.
• 54:24
  Going through the IFS therapy, I had to call my sister a lot.
• 54:27
  My sister was nine years older than me and I would ask what happened and why are we like this?
• 54:32
  And
• 54:33
  And she was nine years old, so she could tell me some things that I'd blocked out, the really bad trauma things.
• 54:39
  So Why Am I Like This is such a good story, such a good title, because literally I think everybody asks it that.
• 54:47
  So if someone takes one thing from Why Am I Like This, what do you hope it is?
• 54:54
  You're not broken.
• 54:55
  There's nothing to fix.
• 54:56
  You just got to heal through some.
• 54:57
  You do have the power.
• 54:59
  You do have the control.
• 55:01
  But now you finally have a roadmap and a rubric.
• 55:03
  That's the scariest part of this healing journey is not knowing where to start, not knowing what to do.
• 55:08
  But you get to have a handy dandy guide who has done it all and then some along with you.
• 55:13
  to really showcase how you actually can change your life.
• 55:16
  And I will tell you right now, it's not by watching a 20 second TikTok from some 22 year old who is telling you if they don't text you every day, drop them.
• 55:23
  It's by sitting in the mess, doing the hard work, but ultimately coming back home to yourself.
• 55:27
  I'm not gonna guarantee any kind of success beyond that, besides the fact that you'll have what you need.
• 55:32
  Now, what are you gonna do with it?
• 55:34
  Beautiful.
• 55:34
  It has never been easier or more accessible or more affordable to heal, to be thin, to be in a relationship and to get coaching and get what we need to live together.
• 55:48
  Good life.
• 55:48
  It's all available.
• 55:49
  Listen to your podcast.
• 55:51
  Listen to my podcast.
• 55:52
  Get a 99 cent book.
• 55:54
  Go take Ozempic.
• 55:55
  I don't care.
• 55:56
  Everything is available.
• 55:57
  You should see I have a crazy.
• 56:00
  My whole IFS story is in my AI.
• 56:04
  I don't go bounce it off of my friends who haven't been through what I've been through.
• 56:09
  Or I pick up the phone and call people like you.
• 56:12
  And I don't bounce these ideas off my friends who aren't going through what I am.
• 56:17
  So be careful about your friends because it really is.
• 56:20
  You are the company you keep.
• 56:22
  You hang around with five idiots.
• 56:23
  You're going to be number six.
• 56:24
  So it's just that simple.
• 56:27
  And get this book.
• 56:28
  There's a new wrinkle that we have.
• 56:30
  It's rapid fire.
• 56:31
  And I end every show with it.
• 56:33
  One word to one sentence is,
• 56:36
  and guys, the link to the pre-order of the book will be in the show notes.
• 56:40
  Please get out and order it.
• 56:42
  We'll do something later on it after I get to get my whole hands on it.
• 56:45
  We got the pre-skin.
• 56:47
  We touched on a lot of it, but she's going to go deeper in it.
• 56:50
  So rapid fire.
• 56:52
  Text back right away or make them wait.
• 56:55
  If you saw it, text them.
• 56:57
  Biggest dating myth you wish would die.
• 57:00
  That if somebody doesn't text you good morning, they don't like you.
• 57:03
  One word for your 22-year-old self.
• 57:05
  One word?
• 57:06
  Yes.
• 57:07
  Or three or a sentence.
• 57:09
  I'm sorry you went through that.
• 57:10
  I'm sorry.
• 57:13
  I want to hug little Rena.
• 57:16
  Attachment style you'd find hardest to coach.
• 57:18
  Anxious.
• 57:19
  My anxious folk are the hardest because they want to make everybody else change to avoid any dealing with any discomfort within themselves.
• 57:27
  It is so hard.
• 57:28
  You always want to change everybody.
• 57:30
  Green flag people overlook.
• 57:32
  Someone saying no to you.
• 57:35
  It's really sexy when someone sets a boundary and isn't afraid to tell you no.
• 57:38
  Best relationship advice you've ever received.
• 57:42
  Relationships are one giant conversation.
• 57:43
  And the minute you stop talking is the minute your relationship is over.
• 57:47
  Who gave you that?
• 57:49
  My sister.
• 57:50
  She's been with her husband since she was 20.
• 57:54
  And she said she was like, relationships are one giant conversation.
• 57:57
  And she goes, when you guys stop talking, say goodbye to your relationship.
• 58:00
  And I was like, she's been with her husband for 20 years.
• 58:02
  And I was like, valid.
• 58:03
  She's not wrong.
• 58:04
  You just made my point from earlier.
• 58:05
  Good, good, good.
• 58:06
  Last one.
• 58:07
  Finish this sentence.
• 58:09
  You are not broken.
• 58:10
  You are.
• 58:10
  A human.
• 58:12
  Sabrina, I love you.
• 58:14
  Kisses to Ryan.
• 58:15
  And one of these times we got to get together in person.
• 58:20
  I wanted to try to get this, but your schedule, my schedule is just crazy.
• 58:23
  I'm super proud of you.
• 58:25
  I am a huge still fan.
• 58:28
  And I just watch everything you do.
• 58:30
  I love everything you're doing.
• 58:31
  And I always, if you're feeling...
• 58:35
  bouts of love.
• 58:36
  It's me sending it to you because I see you and I see you in the fight and I see you grinding and working and you're growing and I'm proud of you and I love you.
• 58:45
  Thanks, Kelly.
• 58:46
  I love you too.
• 58:47
  And thank you guys for being here.
• 58:48
  Thank you for listening.
• 58:49
  Thank you for ordering.
• 58:49
  Why am I like this?
• 58:51
  And I think we're just, it's a brick, right?
• 58:53
  Brick by brick is the only way we'll be able to build a new wall and not in the bad way, but in a good way of building a new how a home that feels safer to you than maybe the one you grew up in.
• 59:02
  Yes, I'm super proud of you.
• 59:04
  Super happy for you.
• 59:05
  Till next week, be harder to life, everybody.
• 59:07
  Don't have to tell you to share this one because this was a doozy.
• 59:10
  Please rate and share this podcast.
• 59:12
  I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters.
• 59:16
  Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity.
• 59:27
  Visit TrustNTM.com for more info.
• 59:30
  Until next week, be harder than life.