Latest / Salish Wolf / #57 Jake Fenwick on Project Quiver

Transcript

#57 Jake Fenwick on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

• 0:06
  Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
• 0:09
  the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
• 0:12
  world's finest traditional bow carvers.
• 0:14
  I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
• 0:17
  Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
• 0:20
  book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
• 0:23
  unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
• 0:26
  the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
• 0:29
  photograph his woodcraft in detail, and share his story here
• 0:32
  on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver The
• 0:36
  Art of Life. Through bow craft and this
• 0:38
  journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
• 0:48
  We do. I think we made it.
• 0:51
  That took a while. All right, excellent.
• 0:53
  Yeah, Sorry about. All that, no worries.
• 0:56
  It's good to troubleshoot it all.
• 0:57
  Good to see you, good to meet you.
• 1:00
  Good to meet you too, Todd. Hey, thanks for having me on
• 1:03
  this podcast. I've been really interested in
• 1:07
  what you guys are doing. You're doing something really
• 1:09
  cool. Thanks, man.
• 1:11
  Yeah, it was before we even jumped on the call.
• 1:13
  I had this feeling like I already know you, which I don't.
• 1:16
  I know very little about you, but just kind of have that
• 1:18
  familiarity with you. So I'm really looking forward to
• 1:21
  this conversation. Radon.
• 1:23
  Excellent. Excellent.
• 1:24
  Well, I'm looking forward to it too.
• 1:26
  You weren't on my radar either, but as you, I started seeing,
• 1:31
  you know, other Boyers on your podcast and I had the pleasure
• 1:36
  of listening to the first few and I think it's really cool
• 1:39
  what you guys are doing. So happy to be a small part of
• 1:42
  it. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:44
  Yeah, it's been quite an adventure already and and we're
• 1:47
  just getting into the meat of the journey, so really loving
• 1:50
  it. It's been amazing.
• 1:52
  Well, by the. End of it, you're going.
• 1:54
  To have oops sorry. No, no, go ahead.
• 1:57
  I think we have a little delay. Yeah, go ahead.
• 2:00
  We're talking across the country.
• 2:02
  I was just saying by the end of it, I think you 2 are going to
• 2:05
  have just a wonderful kind of encapsulated wealth of
• 2:10
  information. And it's neat.
• 2:12
  You're talking to some really fascinating people.
• 2:14
  So I think that's really cool. Yeah, yeah, it's been so good.
• 2:18
  And we're just, we have 3 chapters worth of material right
• 2:21
  now and we're just in Indesign putting that all into a book
• 2:25
  format. And God, that's so exciting
• 2:27
  seeing it actually come to life and, and look like a book.
• 2:30
  So that's been a dream come true.
• 2:33
  So yeah, it's quite an adventure and.
• 2:37
  I. Support and thank you for
• 2:38
  currently seeing it. Come.
• 2:41
  Together. Yeah.
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  Thank you for the invite to come and visit you.
• 2:44
  I'm definitely going to take you up on that.
• 2:46
  And you're in a, you're in a pretty cool part of the world.
• 2:50
  You want to tell the listeners a bit about where you are?
• 2:53
  Yeah. For sure.
• 2:54
  Well, when I saw you out in BC and I knew you're flying to
• 2:57
  Europe, I thought I'd just say, you know, if if you wanted to
• 3:00
  drop by because we get some pretty cheap flights to Europe
• 3:03
  because we're in Atlantic Canada and we're actually dead center.
• 3:07
  We're right at the very end of the Bay of Fundy.
• 3:10
  We're in New Brunswick, but you know, our view is Nova Scotia
• 3:14
  and we're about an hour to to Prince Edward Island.
• 3:17
  So and it's kind of a little corner off above Main and out in
• 3:22
  the Atlantic. But it's nice.
• 3:25
  It's a good place for us to escape to, you know?
• 3:29
  That's so cool. I've been wanting to come to
• 3:31
  Atlanta, Canada for years and years, really ever since my kids
• 3:34
  were born. My wife and I have been talking
• 3:36
  about it, but we have not yet. So yeah, you're, you're now on
• 3:41
  the map. We're coming.
• 3:42
  We're coming to see. You just have to figure out when
• 3:45
  that'll be. Right on Ron.
• 3:48
  Like I said, we, we've got some kind of nature retreat, B and BS
• 3:53
  kind of set up so you guys can have a, a place to stay and when
• 3:57
  you're not turning around, we can, we can make some bows.
• 4:01
  Yeah. So your house you said is 230
• 4:04
  plus years old? Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild.
• 4:07
  So my my wife found it. So she's from Kentucky and she
• 4:12
  had never been to the Maritimes before.
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  And we found this house on like TH pet Page 10 of Kijiji and we
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  drove out and and bought it without really knowing the
• 4:23
  history. And it wasn't till we bought it,
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  which is very maritimer way, that people started telling us
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  all these stories about it. There used to be a shipbuilding
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  yard on the Bay maybe 300 yards behind me.
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  And so the house used to be an inn for a while.
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  It was like a silver fox farm. It was.
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  And in the 70s, there's a ended up being a kind of a famous
• 4:45
  hippie commune. And so there's all this like
• 4:48
  weird history that we've kind of learned since we've been able to
• 4:53
  steward it in the property. So we're, we feel very fortunate
• 4:57
  that we kind of just fell into it, you know?
• 5:00
  That's amazing. Are you from that area?
• 5:04
  No, I'm, I'm from Eastern Ontario, originally small town
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  near Ottawa and I ended up kind of traveling on the road for
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  about 6 years where I met my wife.
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  And so this was, we were just kind of coming back to North
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  America at that point and we were just kind of looking for a
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  home base. So that's how we ended up here.
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  That's so cool. Yeah, I have.
• 5:27
  There's not nearly as rich of a history on the farm that that I
• 5:31
  have in BC, But when we bought it about a decade ago, we
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  started to dig into the history and we actually inherited a lot
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  of historical photographs from the place and some information.
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  And the previous owners were both prolific writers.
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  And so we were able to put together a lot of information.
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  And it's cool. There's four cookbooks that are
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  written based on the farm here and a gardening book about the
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  farm here. And so that's really cool.
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  And then we also found out that the Westinghouse family, I don't
• 6:01
  know if you're familiar with the Westinghouse name, but George
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  Westinghouse was one of the world's most famous inventors,
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  major tycoon. He invented the railway air
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  brake. He was involved in electricity.
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  And they still have, they create, they still have a lot of
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  products like ceiling fans and stuff for Westinghouse.
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  But anyway, he was he was one of the wealthiest men in the world.
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  And he bought this for his son as a wedding gift at one point.
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  And so it was cool to dig into it and see all the history.
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  Yeah, I'm hoping one day I uncover his his fortune buried
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  somewhere. Are you guys on Vancouver
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  Island? Is that where?
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  You're based? Yeah, Yeah.
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  All right on that is so cool. I mean, and that's just today
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  you kind of when you move into a house, you kind of inherit this
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  legacy in a way, you know, and you're just like you're the next
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  people tending it, the next chapter.
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  But if you can get that window into the past, I mean, what a
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  treasure. Yeah, yeah.
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  And there's a bunch. There are our the previous
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  owners found a bunch of little broken glass bottles in the
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  basement and learned that those were opium bottles.
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  And the Chinese, A Chinese servant used to live in a cellar
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  in the basement, and those were his opium bottles.
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  Really. Oh, that's hilarious.
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  Were they that in in our walls? I don't think they were opium.
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  I don't I don't know. We're on the other side, but we
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  found a bunch of old bottles and they were round.
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  They used to keep them round so they'd be on their side to keep
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  the cork always wet. And we've been actually trying
• 7:35
  to identify them because in our walls it was all Birch Park and
• 7:37
  Horsehair insulation and filled with these bottles.
• 7:41
  Wow, crazy. That is very, very cool.
• 7:47
  Yeah. We don't have much in writing
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  for us. We get a lot of old folks
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  wandering down the laneway reminiscing.
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  That's that's generally it. Yeah, that's cool.
• 8:01
  Well, tell me, man, how did your archery career began and your
• 8:05
  your career as a Bowyer? And I'll, I'll preface that by
• 8:08
  saying since you started following us and I started
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  seeing your work. Wow, like beautiful.
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  Your your work's incredible. I think I watched a little short
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  film that you had made about you and your workshop.
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  So beautiful, high quality stuff, everything I've seen from
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  you. Well, thanks, Todd.
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  I really appreciate that. As far as getting into it, it,
• 8:31
  it was really a series of unexpected events for me.
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  I think it started when I was around 13 and I was doing this
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  deep dive into family history. And my mother's maiden name is
• 8:43
  Archer. And cool.
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  We're really fortunate. I know weird, eh?
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  But we were really fortunate where my, my grandfather's
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  brother was the president of the University of Regina and at some
• 8:57
  point the history department there, the students did a, a
• 9:00
  project on him. There's a bit of brown nosing
• 9:04
  and who knows? But anyways, we ended up with
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  this really comprehensive family history that goes back to 1038.
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  And in that in the early parts of that, there's a lot of
• 9:15
  different references to archery. And so when I was 13, I was
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  reading this and I was going, oh man, this was this is amazing.
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  And you know, I was a nerdy kid, a history kid to begin with.
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  And you know, it didn't take much research to realize the
• 9:31
  bows that they would have been using were the English long
• 9:34
  bows, English war bows. And so, you know, I did what any
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  kid did at that point. I went on YouTube, and this was
• 9:42
  when YouTube was pretty new. Or if YouTube wasn't new, at
• 9:46
  least it wasn't really any videos of archery or not much.
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  But the one guy who is posting videos on English long bows who
• 9:55
  have since had the pleasure to meet, he's a fantastic guy, is
• 9:57
  Nick Birmingham. And he made all these videos.
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  And there's one in particular where he was shooting this big
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  English war bow and I was captivated.
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  You know, it looked like the Crescent moon.
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  Everything was in balance. It was like this beautiful mix
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  of power and art. And I was, I was fascinating,
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  but fascinated by it. And so, you know, after that I
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  kind of was looking around, I was trying to find where I could
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  do something like this and I couldn't find anyone in Canada
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  at that point doing it. I, I know now there's folks out
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  in BC, but you know, in Eastern Canada.
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  Anyways, I didn't know anyone doing this sort of thing.
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  But my dad had told me that a neighbor of ours was into
• 10:46
  archery and he was really into horse archery, which is also
• 10:50
  amazing. And I, you know, would hang out
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  with him and soak up as much knowledge as I could.
• 10:57
  And he invited me down to. Are you familiar with Etar
• 11:03
  Dental? Yeah.
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  OK. So he invited me down there and
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  it was kind of my first time away from home, really.
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  That guy was a 14 year old kid, at least you know, that far
• 11:16
  away. And we drove all the way down
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  and we ended up camping with this group of guys who were
• 11:24
  shooting English longbows. And I remember being like, this
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  is amazing. And these guys ended up being
• 11:33
  just some of my best friends. One of them in particular, a
• 11:35
  real mentor in both bows, but also just life and philosophy.
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  He's now since past, but his name is Jerry Lee.
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  He was an amazing Fletcher and he's the one who, yeah, he, he
• 11:50
  just taught me an awful lot. We would later found the
• 11:54
  Canadian Warbo Society together. But you know, back then I was
• 11:57
  still, I was a little pimply kid and he got me turned on to the
• 12:02
  English Warbo Society in the UK. And I, I ended up joining that
• 12:10
  and they had a forum at that point, the English Warbo Society
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  forum, and it was fantastic. There's so much good
• 12:19
  information. This is before the EWBS kind of
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  imploded on itself. But you know, what was great
• 12:26
  about it is unlike today where everything's kind of Facebook
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  and Instagram based, not trying to put shade on that, but
• 12:33
  everything's an algorithm. So amazing stuff gets posted but
• 12:38
  then lost. Whereas with forums, what was so
• 12:40
  good about them as you could, it was like a library, right?
• 12:44
  You could go through and and find information and the
• 12:48
  primitive Archer form too, of course, was amazing.
• 12:52
  But for the English war boats, for me, the WBS form was
• 12:57
  invaluable. So I, I, I realize that I'm
• 13:00
  talking a lot. You just cut me off from talking
• 13:03
  too much, but. No worries.
• 13:07
  So less work for me. If you just keep talking, I
• 13:09
  don't have to say anything. It's not, it's not good, though.
• 13:14
  It ends up being just a monologue, but I'll, I'll wrap
• 13:17
  it up. So at at that point I, you know,
• 13:19
  I came home and I was totally bitten by this whole thing and I
• 13:25
  really wanted the real deal. I really wanted like AU bow.
• 13:28
  I really wanted a heavy one, everything that meant a very
• 13:33
  expensive bow and U bows are expensive now, but back then
• 13:37
  they were like really expensive, especially for a high school
• 13:40
  kid. So I started making them because
• 13:43
  my, I grew up in the family business.
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  My dad's business is making Shaker furniture.
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  So I was really lucky I had access to a shop.
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  I was still in high school at the time.
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  And so I all of a sudden I, I was really not paying attention
• 14:00
  to school at all. And I would be barely in school
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  and then I would be up at night studying and working on bows and
• 14:10
  the weekends I spent. Wow.
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  I did completely high school was not my thing.
• 14:18
  I was, I really had a bad time there anyway.
• 14:21
  And so traditional school was never really my thing.
• 14:27
  And so it was actually a lifesaver.
• 14:30
  I think for me, it gave me something to focus on, to really
• 14:33
  build on. And what was great is, you know,
• 14:38
  the guys and in the, the UK with the time difference, often when
• 14:45
  I was kind of up at night, they'd still be awake.
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  So there's a, there's a few of them who I, I really learned a
• 14:50
  lot from and we're really good at answering questions and, and
• 14:55
  that whole thing. And, and it was around then that
• 15:00
  we started the Canadian Warble Society, which was a lot of fun
• 15:05
  in those were just really, really fun times.
• 15:08
  And it was kind of a slow progression.
• 15:11
  I think by the time I was, want to say, 16, I started my
• 15:17
  business. And it was one of those things
• 15:21
  where I wasn't making a lot of money.
• 15:25
  But for a high school kid, I sure was, you know?
• 15:28
  Yeah. And I was still living at my
• 15:30
  parents house, so it's not like I had any expenditures.
• 15:35
  And so I, I saved and saved and saved then.
• 15:41
  And then what happened was I have to give a lot of credit to
• 15:46
  Ian Sturgis of Boston Bows. He came out around the time I
• 15:51
  think I was, yeah, I was 17 at the time.
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  And he came over to Canada and he taught me an awful lot.
• 15:59
  We made a lot of bows together. And then I ended up going over
• 16:05
  to the UK after that and worked in his shop for quite a while.
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  And I learned a lot from him. And that kind of started this
• 16:14
  whole thing where I ended up traveling around and kind of not
• 16:20
  really doing what you're doing is much lesser form than what
• 16:22
  you guys are doing, But similar where I got to meet an awful lot
• 16:25
  of lawyers in a number of different countries.
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  And some of them, I got to spend a lot of time in their shop and
• 16:32
  work with them all the way down to others where we just got
• 16:35
  together for a shoot. But, you know, you still pick up
• 16:38
  these tidbits from them. So yeah, that's kind of, I
• 16:44
  suppose, the condensed version of it.
• 16:47
  Were you still a teenager at this time when you started
• 16:50
  traveling? Yeah, so I was, I was 17 when I
• 16:52
  took off and and I would work in different countries too.
• 16:59
  And actually it was great. I would, there's certain places
• 17:03
  like I, I ended up in New Zealand for a while and what was
• 17:07
  fantastic was at the time, nobody in New Zealand or
• 17:12
  Australia were making these types of boats.
• 17:14
  So I just got all these orders from people who were there would
• 17:18
  hook me up and I would take over.
• 17:21
  Like I think I took over. Was it 2530 bows?
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  And, you know, essentially paid for a year of being over there.
• 17:31
  So I would travel and then I'd run out of money and I'd make
• 17:34
  bows and then I'd travel. I kept doing that for a while.
• 17:38
  So you took like 30 bows to New Zealand, You traveled there with
• 17:41
  those? Yeah, it was really hard.
• 17:44
  Yeah, I maybe the term smuggling.
• 17:49
  Had you made those in Ontario in your workshop?
• 17:52
  I did. I did.
• 17:55
  However, when I was over there, I got the chance to work with a
• 17:57
  few guys. I was living with a guy named
• 18:02
  Wayne, Wayne Layton and he had a little shop because there is the
• 18:06
  English War Bow Society like the New Zealand branch.
• 18:08
  So I knew a couple guys over there and then actually, and
• 18:12
  one, one person I, I always like to mention is there's, there's a
• 18:15
  guy over there, his name's Aaron Williams and he's a fantastic
• 18:18
  Boyer. He never, I don't think he's
• 18:22
  ever sold a bow. Like he's not a professional
• 18:24
  Boyer, but the bows he made were just exquisite and, and using
• 18:30
  New Zealand timber too, which was kind of neat, you know, it's
• 18:33
  a new timber that, yeah, my knowledge, no one had used
• 18:36
  before is there, especially in New Zealand, actually.
• 18:40
  There's no history there, right? There's no history of archery in
• 18:42
  Australia or New Zealand, right? Exactly.
• 18:46
  That's what I was just about to say.
• 18:48
  That was something that I found really interesting because there
• 18:51
  was no history. There was, there's even, there's
• 18:53
  no leads, right. So everything was trial and
• 18:58
  error and I remember the one would I remember is he made some
• 19:00
  bows out of species called kanuka and I thought those were
• 19:06
  awesome. It really it's related to if you
• 19:08
  know, like manuka, manuka honey. It's the same kind of species,
• 19:13
  makes a fine bone. Nice and big to a Acacia trees
• 19:17
  work for bows, right? Yeah, that's right, though I've
• 19:20
  never worked with them, but I've heard that.
• 19:23
  And then there's some Australian woods too.
• 19:26
  Are you familiar with Colin Gare?
• 19:28
  Outlaw Bose No. I hope I'm not.
• 19:31
  Losing you now. Can you hear me?
• 19:35
  Yep, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
• 19:36
  No, I'm not familiar with him. OK.
• 19:41
  But he's, he's an excellent Boyer down there.
• 19:43
  And it's at the time he was really new.
• 19:46
  He, he was asking, you know, me advice.
• 19:49
  And, and that's kind of funny because now he's very, he's very
• 19:53
  successful. He's gone on to doing more
• 19:56
  laminated like flat bows, like hunting and whatnot.
• 20:01
  But I I had the pleasure of being there when they used to
• 20:05
  have their Australian war bow Society shoots and.
• 20:08
  I got to work a lot with Colin and and he was experimenting
• 20:11
  with some really interesting Australian woods, incredibly
• 20:15
  dense stuff, probably similar to different, but similar in that
• 20:19
  respect to where you where you're living now.
• 20:23
  Yeah, I haven't really. Worked with any of the well,
• 20:26
  that's not true. Well, that is true.
• 20:27
  I haven't worked with any of the woods in Costa Rica.
• 20:31
  I told a story recently on a podcast, which I don't know if I
• 20:34
  published that one yet or anyway about finding lemon wood trees
• 20:38
  in my backyard in Costa Rica. And I've been looking for lemon
• 20:42
  wood trees and looking a lot for multiple years in Costa Rica.
• 20:47
  And I'm building a carving studio right now at my place.
• 20:50
  And my builder's girlfriend was there and she's from Costa Rica.
• 20:55
  And I asked her what type of tree this was that I had a swing
• 20:58
  hanging from. And I only asked her because he
• 21:01
  was looking at the site for my studio, thinking we might have
• 21:04
  to cut down some of these trees. I'm like, you know, you can't
• 21:07
  cut down this tree. Like, whatever it is, it's got
• 21:09
  this cool swing hanging from it. And when I teach archery, a lot
• 21:12
  of my students will sit on the swing and watch their friends do
• 21:15
  archery. And so I asked her what kind of
• 21:17
  tree it was. It's a lemon wood tree.
• 21:20
  I had no idea. I've been searching for years
• 21:23
  down there to find lemon wood. And it turns out I have four or
• 21:26
  five of them in my backyard beside my archery range.
• 21:30
  So now I know what they look like.
• 21:33
  I. Can't cut those down.
• 21:35
  Yeah. But I know what they look like,
• 21:37
  so now I can find them, hopefully well, and they're in
• 21:41
  danger. Too, aren't they?
• 21:42
  They are so. They yeah, I think it was Chuck
• 21:45
  Loffler was telling me that due to bow making, they became very
• 21:51
  endangered because it's such a good bow wood.
• 21:54
  In Nicaragua, lemon wood is known as.
• 22:00
  Well, there's three. Names, it's either degame,
• 22:02
  Madera or Salomo. I think it's degame in
• 22:06
  Nicaragua. Whatever it is, it's the
• 22:07
  national tree, so it's protected there.
• 22:10
  And and then in Costa Rica, I it's not that common, at least
• 22:15
  where I am, Although again, I have a handful of them in my
• 22:18
  backyard, but those are the only ones I've seen.
• 22:20
  But maybe I just haven't had my eye out for them because I
• 22:23
  didn't know what they look like. But that is where that's where
• 22:27
  lemon wood's native to, so it should be available somewhere.
• 22:31
  Absolutely. Well.
• 22:31
  I know it's a fantastic bullwood.
• 22:33
  They, they used to use that an awful lot and I still think in
• 22:38
  the UK they can still get it. I've seen a lot of Boyers in the
• 22:41
  UK use it and I always was under the impression that the the UK
• 22:46
  stuff was imported from Cuba, but I could be wrong.
• 22:50
  So that's very cool that you've got it where you are.
• 22:54
  Yeah. That's very.
• 22:56
  Yeah, where do you? Get your your staves from where
• 22:59
  do I get my you? Staves from, yeah, your neck of
• 23:03
  the woods generally. OK, yeah, generally Vancouver
• 23:07
  Island or just on the mainland. There's a a few people there now
• 23:14
  who I've been getting staves from and wonderful quality.
• 23:18
  I've also worked a little bit with Italian you, not a lot, but
• 23:24
  I've well, and when I say I've worked with that, I've only made
• 23:28
  maybe 5 bows from Italian You. But again, back to before, like
• 23:36
  Ian Sturgis and I, we went and visited Celestino Paletti in
• 23:40
  Italy, which was a really neat experience.
• 23:44
  Kind of saw his workshop. Who is that?
• 23:46
  Oh, oh, sorry. So Celestino Paletti used to be
• 23:52
  to my knowledge he was the only person you could get Italian you
• 23:55
  from. Like I've I could be wrong with
• 23:58
  this, but I was under the impression that he was the only
• 24:00
  one the Italian government allowed to cut.
• 24:05
  And back in the kind of mid 2000s, early like 2010, he was
• 24:14
  supplying a lot of people with it with Italian you and.
• 24:21
  What's that? Is he?
• 24:23
  A bow ear, yes. Yeah, he.
• 24:25
  Would also work with that he made horse bows as well, but it
• 24:30
  was kind of common knowledge to get the good stuff you had to go
• 24:33
  there and you'd have to barter with him a little bit.
• 24:37
  He put up a hard bargain. He he had this whole room full
• 24:41
  of use staves that were, you know BC grade.
• 24:46
  But if you wanted to see the A grade, he had a whole separate
• 24:50
  area in this hill. And where is he?
• 24:55
  He's in the north. He's close to Trento, if you
• 24:58
  know where that is. OK, well.
• 24:59
  No, but we're going to be in the North, so I don't know to my
• 25:03
  knowledge. He's not making bows anymore, or
• 25:08
  at least not professionally, but I do know of someone in Europe
• 25:11
  who's recently gotten the stay from, so I know he's still
• 25:14
  around. And the staves that Trent got
• 25:18
  from him. Yeah.
• 25:21
  Yeah, I can get you his exact locale.
• 25:26
  I don't really want to, like, put it out there publicly.
• 25:29
  Yeah, yeah, in case he doesn't work that, But if you're
• 25:31
  interested, I'll let you know, OK?
• 25:34
  He's not. Far from where we're going to be
• 25:37
  and we're going to be in Brescia with Enrico Meraji and it looks
• 25:42
  like it's only a 23 hour walk. Fantastic.
• 25:46
  Now there you go, two hour, 2 hour drive, right?
• 25:51
  Yeah, it's kind of right. It's he's on the other end of
• 25:55
  the massive lake. Yes, he's up in the.
• 25:59
  Yard ways yeah, it looks like he's.
• 26:01
  Up in the mountains, a bit sweet.
• 26:04
  He definitely is. It's beautiful.
• 26:06
  He also had a a yurt building operation, so when you go there,
• 26:12
  you stay in these yurts. And yeah, he had this whole
• 26:17
  huge. Excellent.
• 26:18
  Shop. It was really, really neat and
• 26:22
  it was just various contact stuff.
• 26:25
  Yeah, I will. I will, yeah.
• 26:28
  But yeah, no, I worked with with his stuff and then in the early
• 26:31
  days I used to get my U out of Oregon, but now lately all EU
• 26:38
  pretty much that I work with is from British Columbia and it's
• 26:43
  excellent. And how?
• 26:44
  How expensive are the staves now?
• 26:46
  I've heard things are getting pretty crazy.
• 26:48
  I don't know like. To be honest, they're a fair
• 26:51
  price, I would say, because, you know, I mean, if you want a good
• 26:55
  stave, you're paying 200 and 5300 bucks.
• 26:59
  Canadian. Yeah, that's not what I've
• 27:00
  heard. Oh, Canadian.
• 27:01
  That's, that's actually a little bit better than what I heard.
• 27:04
  Yeah. And.
• 27:05
  Maybe I sometimes I get better rates.
• 27:08
  I've got some friends out there, but you know, it's such hard
• 27:13
  work. I mean, I've never I've never
• 27:15
  gone and cut you. Although I'm hoping next autumn
• 27:19
  I have an opportunity to head over to Vancouver Island and and
• 27:23
  join a guide on a big U harvest. So I'm hoping to get my hands
• 27:28
  dirty with that. But, but in the east here, I do
• 27:31
  a lot of stave harvests with our native Timbers here and it's
• 27:35
  hard work, you know, like when you look at, because it's true,
• 27:39
  people always talk about how expensive staves are and it's
• 27:42
  true, but it's also a lot of work, you know, So I'm also OK
• 27:46
  with paying people for their, for their labour because I also
• 27:50
  know with, with you, it's, it seems to be a joke a like often
• 27:53
  the best woods for making bows. They don't want to be bows.
• 27:57
  They're like gnarled trees and they're up in mountains and you
• 28:00
  go to work for them. Yeah.
• 28:03
  Well, and it's not like we're harvesting bamboo either.
• 28:05
  That grows back in a month, and this stuff is right.
• 28:10
  Right. Once it's harvested, it's.
• 28:11
  Going to be a long time. Exactly.
• 28:13
  Yeah. That's right.
• 28:14
  And that's also why I, I in particular really want to start
• 28:19
  going out there and doing some of my own harvesting.
• 28:22
  Not because it's any cheaper, maybe that sounds weird, but
• 28:27
  because you would in particular is such a special timber, it
• 28:31
  also requires so many years. Yeah, to mature, you know,
• 28:37
  compared to white Woods, you know, it, it also, I think it, I
• 28:43
  don't know, there's some sort of a feeling of, I don't know if
• 28:45
  it's reverence or, or what, but to kind of get your feet in the
• 28:49
  dirt, climb the mountain and work for the for the.
• 28:53
  There's something to that. I don't know, but I I have.
• 28:57
  Someone hubose where I can't even count the growth rings.
• 29:01
  They get so tiny and packed together but like 40-50 years of
• 29:05
  growth on just a tiny little bow.
• 29:06
  So yeah, it's amazing. Every now, yeah, every now and
• 29:10
  then you get those right? And it's just like, I know I'll
• 29:13
  look at and just go like, oh, and yeah, it's it's crazy.
• 29:19
  And to think, you know, what's interesting like when talking
• 29:23
  with you is, you know, I've had a few people ask me or I've
• 29:27
  spoken to other people about the differences between Italian you
• 29:31
  and our North American you. And what's crazy is when you see
• 29:37
  that caliber of you in BCI mean you just can't really get that
• 29:43
  in Europe anymore. It was all cut down.
• 29:45
  I mean, you can still get really good pieces, but not quite like
• 29:48
  that. But if you look at like the Mary
• 29:49
  Rose bows, the quality of taxes piccata that they had was
• 29:57
  extraordinary. You know, it was very, I, I
• 29:59
  think quite similar to what what we still have today in British
• 30:03
  Columbia. Yeah.
• 30:06
  One of my colleagues years ago is a renowned herbalist.
• 30:09
  She's from England and she was telling me about this little
• 30:12
  town that she grew up in where the.
• 30:16
  Town. Council would meet in the belly
• 30:19
  of a hollowed out Yew Tree that was still alive, but something
• 30:23
  like 700 a 1000 years old. I I looked it up at one point,
• 30:28
  but it was hollowed out enough that there could be like, I
• 30:31
  don't know, 6-10 people inside and they would have their town
• 30:34
  council meetings in this Yew Tree.
• 30:37
  Incredible. That's amazing.
• 30:39
  Where did you say this was? Somewhere in.
• 30:41
  England. Wow, that's like that sounds
• 30:44
  like some old school druid kind of stuff, you know?
• 30:47
  Yeah, that's incredible. And the.
• 30:49
  Name she said for you would, and I think it's like ancient Gaelic
• 30:54
  is Ewa Iwa. So I have a U bow that's named
• 30:58
  Ewa. Oh, interesting.
• 31:00
  Well, from what I understand in Gallic Gaelic culture, the Yew
• 31:07
  Tree is one of the trees that was supposed to come from fairy
• 31:11
  or something like that. Like I think it right.
• 31:14
  It was, it's got a, it's got a huge mythology, which I'm sure
• 31:18
  you know, but yeah, they have a. She showed me a symbol for it as
• 31:24
  well, which I carved into my bow and it's, I don't have the bow.
• 31:28
  I haven't seen it for a long time but it's like, I think it's
• 31:31
  like a stick figure man. But instead of 1.
• 31:35
  Set of arms, it's got like 3 or 4 sets of arms, so I don't know.
• 31:41
  I don't know what it means, but anyway, I carved that into the
• 31:46
  bow. It's pretty cool.
• 31:47
  I had a question written down that came up though, because you
• 31:49
  were talking about staves and using harvesting some staves
• 31:53
  where you are, Yes. What?
• 31:55
  What wood do you work with that's local so around?
• 31:58
  Here the best woods that we have is Ironwood or popcorn bean.
• 32:04
  Popcorn Bean and Elm, those are my 2 favorites and then White
• 32:09
  Ash in the Maritimes. Those are in my opinion, the
• 32:15
  three best ones. However, I've been doing a
• 32:17
  little bit of work with Yellow Birch, so I want to pursue that
• 32:20
  a little bit more. And are you able to carve any
• 32:25
  English style long bows out of these or are you doing more flat
• 32:28
  bows? Absolutely.
• 32:29
  I I almost never make flat bows if I'm honest.
• 32:33
  I'm, I know like a lot of people have this wide array and I've
• 32:40
  gotten out and played around a little bit, but I just keep
• 32:43
  coming back to the English longbows and the war bows.
• 32:46
  That's my thing. So, so the woods I test out,
• 32:48
  they're always for English war bows and I, I've had the chance
• 32:54
  to work with some a, a pretty wide variety of woods in
• 32:59
  Ontario. There's more woods than than
• 33:02
  there is out here. Like I've gotten to make some
• 33:04
  out of sassafras and black walnut and fun stuff like that.
• 33:08
  But so all the was that you just.
• 33:10
  Mentioned all make reasonable or good English long bows,
• 33:14
  Absolutely. Not necessarily English war bows
• 33:17
  from my experience, and I just like to preface this because
• 33:21
  anytime somebody said something with bows you can usually be
• 33:26
  proven wrong. You know, like other people
• 33:28
  might have a different experience, but in my
• 33:30
  experience, I wouldn't make the black walnut bows for longevity
• 33:37
  over 80 lbs. I have made them.
• 33:40
  I've I made one that was 120 lbs and it did really well for two
• 33:45
  months. And I see, I think, I think the
• 33:51
  rest you can make pretty heavy bows out of if you have the want
• 33:56
  there. And are you?
• 33:57
  Using a combination of sapwood and hardwood.
• 34:00
  Just hardwood. Just sapwood.
• 34:01
  What it often with white? Woods, you don't have a choice
• 34:04
  and you're using a lot of sapwood like with ash or
• 34:07
  whatever. But I always try and include the
• 34:10
  hardwood when I can because the the failing point where where
• 34:17
  white woods have the most trouble is in the belly.
• 34:19
  They get compression issues and it's one reason like when I'm
• 34:24
  selling them in my business, I really only right now I'm
• 34:28
  offering you bows and ash bows because you need to have a
• 34:34
  product. Obviously if a customer's paying
• 34:36
  good money and you're shipping it that longevity wise, they
• 34:40
  can, they can stand up. Whitewoods are a lot, I've found
• 34:43
  a lot fussier than you were Osage or or other ones.
• 34:48
  I'm just. Finishing and I just right
• 34:51
  before we hopped on the call I was doing a final send on an ash
• 34:54
  flat bow and I still have a few more pieces left so I'll try a
• 34:57
  Longbow next. Right on.
• 34:59
  Absolutely so and I'll say you know often a good clue of.
• 35:07
  What the? Wood will do well with is
• 35:09
  looking at the indigenous community, right?
• 35:12
  Because they're the ones who've worked with that species for
• 35:14
  years and years and years, and they tend to have profiles down
• 35:17
  pat. Woods like ash.
• 35:20
  They make excellent English long bows, but I think they can be
• 35:26
  more prone to issues than flat bows, again, because they're so
• 35:31
  tension strong, right? And you know, moisture and
• 35:35
  whatnot. But I would highly recommend it.
• 35:37
  And I would also really recommend if you make an ash
• 35:41
  English Longbow, heat treat it. It really can perform like a top
• 35:47
  shelf wood species. OK.
• 35:50
  Yeah, when I worked with Corey Hawk at Organic Archery a few
• 35:54
  months ago, we made a hackberry English Longwell, not an English
• 35:57
  Longwell. We made a hackberry Longbow and
• 36:01
  very similar to English Longbow, and we had to heat treat that as
• 36:04
  well. It was quite humid at the time
• 36:05
  we were carving it, but heat treating really helped it one
• 36:08
  and those. Yeah.
• 36:10
  And Corey hunts exclusively with his hackberry bows, basically,
• 36:13
  and he's been doing that for years and years and fantastic
• 36:16
  bow. That's awesome.
• 36:17
  It's not a war bow. It pulls, I think 60 lbs, but
• 36:22
  still that's great. Still no that that's.
• 36:24
  Awesome. And and Hackberry I know is
• 36:25
  really good. A friend of mine, Carl's worked
• 36:28
  with it quite a bit. But yeah, and and somebody like
• 36:31
  him would know. And I would, I would also say if
• 36:35
  ever you're unsure of a white wood, it's always easier to have
• 36:39
  a bit of a flatter section, even if you're doing AD shaped bow
• 36:42
  just to give it that extra strength.
• 36:44
  But yeah, I, I can imagine that that bow you made does really
• 36:50
  well. I white woods get a bad rap, and
• 36:52
  I think that just comes from, in a lot of ways they're harder
• 36:57
  than other woods, but you can make just fantastic bows with
• 37:01
  them. Yeah.
• 37:03
  What are some of the most unique woods that you've worked with?
• 37:07
  I'm trying to think I, I, I think I had the opportunity to
• 37:12
  work a little bit with Kanuka in New Zealand, but most have been
• 37:18
  around here. I've.
• 37:21
  You know, to be honest, I think sassafras, black walnut are
• 37:26
  probably the most off the beaten track.
• 37:30
  Yellow Birch. I don't know many folks who have
• 37:32
  worked with yellow Birch. I think those are probably,
• 37:35
  that's probably it really. I generally work with you,
• 37:39
  Ironwood, Elm, Ash. That's my.
• 37:44
  Go to, you know, and I'm I'm sure because you're a boy or
• 37:48
  yourself, I'm sure you've kind of gotten to this point too,
• 37:51
  where you, you kind of, you get to know the wood almost a little
• 37:55
  bit like a, a person, you know what their personality is.
• 37:58
  So if you're working with a certain species, you know, OK,
• 38:00
  these are the problems that could come up when working with
• 38:03
  it. So you take steps to prevent
• 38:05
  that, you know, especially given the stave you have.
• 38:09
  Yeah. Part of the fun.
• 38:10
  Yeah, tell me. About the societies, the warbo
• 38:13
  societies like you sound like you start helped start the
• 38:16
  Canadian one when you were like 15 or 16.
• 38:19
  Oh yeah, yeah. That, you know, they're really
• 38:21
  grand names. The one, the one in the UK was,
• 38:28
  you know, the big one, they had tons of members.
• 38:32
  They, they, they were very, you know, professional about it all.
• 38:38
  They had like their own insurance.
• 38:39
  I think when they'd shoot at these wonderful estates and they
• 38:43
  would, they would do amazing things and they had all this
• 38:47
  amazing, you know, experience pulled together through the form
• 38:53
  and everything. And, you know, we saw that and
• 38:56
  went, well, that looks great. And so we started a very
• 38:59
  Canadian version of it, which essentially is a bunch of guys
• 39:03
  who get together in a field in the forest, camp out, have
• 39:06
  fires, Bilbos in the evenings and shoot during the day.
• 39:11
  And it was, it was very unofficial.
• 39:14
  That sounds perfect. Yeah, but.
• 39:15
  We gave ourselves a nice name that was.
• 39:19
  That was. Essentially what it was T.
• 39:21
  Shirts and yeah, good to go some.
• 39:23
  T-shirts exactly. And and you, you know what it
• 39:29
  was Todd in a in a big way. It was gauging how you were
• 39:34
  doing and how different woods reacted.
• 39:37
  So like the biggest thing for me is that all these shoots, there
• 39:41
  was these flight shoots where they would record all the
• 39:44
  details. So you'd have spec arrows, you'd
• 39:47
  have like, you know, 5 different types of arrows with really
• 39:51
  strict parameters. So everybody's essentially
• 39:55
  shooting the same thing. And then you'd have bow
• 39:58
  categories. And so you could see how well
• 40:01
  you as an Archer and the bow. Was doing next to what other
• 40:05
  people were doing all around the world.
• 40:07
  So as a as an Archer, it was fantastic because you could kind
• 40:10
  of watch yourself get better. And as a a Boyer, it was really
• 40:15
  fascinating because you had all this data of these bows you're
• 40:19
  making and how they were doing. Yeah.
• 40:22
  My only experience with that is when I was with Chuck Loffler of
• 40:25
  Hartwood Bows in Salt Lake City. He took us out to the Bonneville
• 40:28
  Salt Flats and we did some flight shooting and he's got a
• 40:31
  few world records and the primitive category with his bows
• 40:35
  and so. We got to.
• 40:37
  Shoot some of those record holding bows and I shot one of
• 40:42
  my bows, I think the one that I made with Waylon.
• 40:44
  All of I couldn't find the string for the hackberry bow I
• 40:47
  made with Corey, which turned out was there the whole time,
• 40:50
  but I just couldn't find it. But anyway, it was pretty fun to
• 40:52
  just I'd never done flight shooting, so to aim the bow 45°
• 40:57
  up in the air and just launch the arrow.
• 40:59
  It was it was pretty cool. I've always only shot at Target.
• 41:02
  So amazing. There's there's something
• 41:04
  magical about watching the arson of an arrow fly away from you.
• 41:07
  Yeah, it's a good and. They are so technical about it
• 41:10
  as you were saying like the arrow should I I shoot with any
• 41:13
  arrow like I I it's some of my arrows are in the worst possible
• 41:19
  shape. But these guys are mine too.
• 41:21
  Weighing every arrow, testing the strength of the shafts like
• 41:25
  it's it's down to an exact size for flight shooting well and I
• 41:28
  think. They're on another level out
• 41:30
  there. You know, they got the ideal
• 41:32
  conditions and like you say, you're getting like world
• 41:34
  records. Out of curiosity, do you recall
• 41:36
  any of your distances? Mine.
• 41:40
  Yeah, no, yeah, rather not say. No, I'm I.
• 41:45
  I don't want to say something stupid and exaggerated.
• 41:48
  It was over 200 yards, but I'm not sure where over that.
• 41:52
  I don't know whether that was at the Broadhead or I don't
• 41:56
  remember. And I don't remember whether
• 41:58
  that was with Chuck's record setting bow or my my Osage
• 42:02
  orange bow. I have no idea.
• 42:03
  But I was just out there having fun.
• 42:05
  I mean, that's the main. Thing, that's the main thing,
• 42:08
  right? Yeah.
• 42:08
  Do you remember any of his arrows?
• 42:10
  How far he was getting. A good 5060 plus meters for or
• 42:14
  yards further than me, but I I don't recall what we were
• 42:17
  hitting. I think his his world records.
• 42:21
  I do actually have it here. Just a moment.
• 42:25
  Yeah, I'm curious. Because I know, I know, some of
• 42:27
  the Turkish ones are insane, but you know what I don't?
• 42:30
  Think I have them written down, it's all good.
• 42:33
  Hey, tell you what, next time there's a hurricane, come over
• 42:35
  here and we'll smash all of them.
• 42:40
  Sounds good. Yeah, I don't know.
• 42:44
  I I want to say he was like 350 yards with.
• 42:49
  Primitive. Category No actually that would
• 42:51
  have been a SUNU back Juniper bill, so 350 that's a good.
• 42:56
  That's that'd be a simple. Composite.
• 42:58
  But yeah, I'm not sure. I I don't want to, I don't want
• 43:02
  to commit to that. But anyway, he set the world
• 43:04
  record, a couple of them. Right on.
• 43:07
  Yeah. I think the horn bows, the Asia
• 43:10
  had a corn bows, he was saying. And I've been researching shoot
• 43:12
  over 600 yards. They're crushing.
• 43:16
  That's crazy. Right.
• 43:17
  Just to think about that, just to visualize it, it's hard.
• 43:22
  It's actually hard to visualize it.
• 43:23
  It is once it gets. Over 200 yards for me anyways.
• 43:26
  Maybe this is just my eyesight, but that's when I have trouble
• 43:28
  actually seeing the arrow come down, you know?
• 43:31
  Oh, yeah, We can't see the arrow come down.
• 43:32
  It's good distance, Yeah. Well, that's the way it was on
• 43:35
  the South flats. Like we launch them in the air
• 43:37
  and I would lose them within a few seconds and I finally
• 43:39
  started to be able to train my eye to, to follow them.
• 43:42
  But that was, yeah, two 300 yards, not 600 yards, right?
• 43:46
  We're, we're really lucky at our place where we're surrounded
• 43:51
  mainly by Ducks Unlimited, but on the other side there's a, a
• 43:54
  farm field and, and he hates it. So it's, it's right by my shot.
• 43:57
  So one of my favorite ways of testing bows is just bringing
• 44:00
  them out. And I don't have a chronograph.
• 44:05
  So I, you know, I, I, I know when a bow is fast just from
• 44:09
  field, but I have no idea the actual foot per second, But I do
• 44:12
  know how far they can shoot. And that's a really good gauge
• 44:15
  for me to, you know, to make sure it's up to as a standard
• 44:19
  that I like. I've always used distance as a
• 44:24
  more as a gauge, you know, than anything.
• 44:26
  So you said? You started, so your business is
• 44:29
  your brand is Fenwick Bows, right?
• 44:31
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:32
  OK. Did you say you started that
• 44:34
  when you were like 16? Yeah.
• 44:36
  Yeah, I did. That's amazing.
• 44:40
  It. You know, it was, it was
• 44:41
  awesome. It was fantastic.
• 44:43
  And I did that most of my life. I've been doing it.
• 44:45
  I did take a couple years off recently.
• 44:49
  I I had a kid and did what a lot of dads do and panicked in the
• 44:55
  way where I was kind of going. You know, bow making was amazing
• 45:00
  for me in the sense where when I didn't have a, a family or a
• 45:04
  house, I was making great money. You know, you don't have as many
• 45:08
  expenditures if you're just rambling, which was what I was
• 45:10
  doing. And you know, sometimes I would
• 45:13
  take time out. I used to like backpack and
• 45:17
  knock on doors and ask to work, you know, for a place to stay.
• 45:21
  So I would kind of disappear for a while and come back.
• 45:24
  And then anyways, when my son was born, I, I picked up work
• 45:30
  with a local Carpenter, kind of an old school Carpenter, because
• 45:33
  I wanted to learn how to build houses and stuff.
• 45:35
  And so that really worked out. So I took a couple years off, I
• 45:38
  caught my sabbatical and I just learned how to build timber
• 45:43
  frame and structures so that I could build stuff around our
• 45:46
  property. That's so go.
• 45:48
  Yeah, that's what a skill to have timber framing is.
• 45:52
  It's all related, right? It's, it's just all cool stuff.
• 45:55
  And so I, I got a little bit of knowledge with that.
• 45:58
  And then, but what was great about it is when I came back to
• 46:02
  making bows, it was just like I was kind of unexpected, to be
• 46:07
  honest. I, I wasn't going to restart it
• 46:09
  until later on, but I was getting people asking me if I
• 46:14
  would make a bows and I ended up getting enough where I just
• 46:17
  said, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll do it.
• 46:19
  And then I got some really good suppliers and, and then it just
• 46:23
  took off. And all of a sudden I had to
• 46:26
  really quickly finish up all my last carpentry work and go full
• 46:30
  time on bows because it just kind of took off like a rocket.
• 46:32
  So I'm really glad. How old were?
• 46:35
  About how old were you when that happened?
• 46:36
  No, this was. Recently, this was like a year
• 46:39
  ago, not even OK cuz about I took about two years off before
• 46:45
  then and then before that I was making bows.
• 46:47
  I was doing fine, but yeah. You know, sometimes a little.
• 46:51
  Step away really does yeah, does you good.
• 46:55
  So it's. Full time and it's taking off.
• 46:56
  Good for you. Well, thanks.
• 46:58
  Yeah. But you know, and at least for
• 46:59
  now, yeah. And like I said, we have some B
• 47:03
  and BS on our property. So you know, that takes some of
• 47:06
  the pressure off. So between that and the bow
• 47:08
  making and that sort of now, are you teaching?
• 47:11
  Too, you know I, I. Haven't really, I've done it.
• 47:15
  Sounds like you have a good set. Up with your B and BS.
• 47:17
  I'm well, I'm. Kind of planning on it.
• 47:19
  I'm also planning on doing some more.
• 47:21
  I used to host a big CWBS shoot every year in Ontario and I'm,
• 47:24
  I'm hoping to start hosting shoots again and do some classes
• 47:30
  and we'll see. I mean, the, the, the thing that
• 47:32
  I'm not sure about is we live in kind of a corner of the country.
• 47:35
  You know, you kind of have to go up and around Maine to get to
• 47:38
  us. So it's whether, you know,
• 47:41
  there'd be enough interest with people to show up because the
• 47:45
  Maritimes are also sparsely populated.
• 47:47
  There's not many. Yeah.
• 47:47
  It's such a beautiful. Place though and yeah steeped in
• 47:51
  so much legend and folklore and it's you know to me there's
• 47:56
  certainly this draw to come there to just experience that
• 48:00
  part of the world there's so much unique history there so I
• 48:04
  think to combine that with staying in your beautiful
• 48:06
  property at the Bay of Fundy and carving English longbows that's
• 48:09
  a beautiful experience so well I'm.
• 48:12
  In it'd be. Awesome to have.
• 48:14
  You and and maybe you can give me some feedback.
• 48:16
  I mean, how far are you? From a major airport O40. 5
• 48:20
  minutes. We're we're closest to Moncton.
• 48:26
  But I mean, what one thing I love, and this is the
• 48:29
  juxtaposition of the marathons. One thing I love about it is
• 48:31
  there's more people in the city of Ottawa than there is in all
• 48:33
  of New Brunswick. So there's not many people.
• 48:38
  And so, you know, it's, it's kind of 10 years behind the rest
• 48:42
  of the country, but it also does provide that really nice side of
• 48:47
  things where, yeah, there's lots of natural beauty.
• 48:50
  And yeah, I'd love for you to come out.
• 48:52
  I mean, you're from you're from the other coast.
• 48:54
  It's it's a very different coast, what I'm going to.
• 48:57
  Do like I'm getting excited about this.
• 49:00
  So we have a very tight schedule from here on in, but we finish
• 49:04
  up here with I think Pete Woodland.
• 49:09
  He's around, yeah, around August 25th.
• 49:12
  And then we're not due in, well in Arnhem in the Netherlands
• 49:16
  until September 5th. So we've got about 10 days and
• 49:20
  we've got to get there. And like you said, you're on the
• 49:24
  route. I'm going to look into it, look
• 49:26
  into it. There's cheap flights to Ireland
• 49:30
  and London. Usually there's cheap flights
• 49:32
  from. There, but shockingly, the
• 49:33
  flights within Canada are the most expensive I know.
• 49:37
  So we could. Fly often.
• 49:38
  We can fly from Victoria to Europe for cheaper than we can
• 49:41
  fly from Victoria to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, so I believe
• 49:44
  it. I'll look into it.
• 49:46
  That would be awesome. Because yeah, it'd be fun.
• 49:49
  There's there's lots to do, man, and it'd it'd be interesting.
• 49:53
  Have you ever made any? Well, I I assume you probably
• 49:56
  have. You're, I know you're, you're
• 49:58
  talking to people like Jamie from Ravenbeak.
• 50:02
  Have you made any English long bows?
• 50:03
  Yeah, all of my. Original bows be my first.
• 50:08
  Well, what did I do? I I bought my first bow, which
• 50:11
  was from Jamie at Ravenbeak. It was a 40 LB English Longbow.
• 50:15
  Fell in love with it. Had this literally, I just had
• 50:18
  this inner sense, this inner calling to get into archery.
• 50:20
  I knew nothing about it. I didn't know primitive archery
• 50:24
  was a thing. I just knew I didn't want a
• 50:26
  fancy bow with carbon fiber and steel and pulleys and stuff.
• 50:30
  I wanted a piece of wood. And so I looked all over really
• 50:34
  online for a bow and I ended up finding out about Jamie.
• 50:38
  He's not that far from from where my farm is and B CS like a
• 50:42
  three hour, 4 hour trip with the ferry ordered a bow from him.
• 50:47
  It was, I thought I was going to spend a few 100 bucks on my
• 50:49
  first bow and it was well over 1000.
• 50:52
  I was like, shit, I'm I'm committing, but instant love
• 50:56
  with I just fell in love with it.
• 50:58
  And it's absolutely has changed the course of my life getting
• 51:01
  that bow. And so then I took, I was
• 51:04
  leading men's retreats at the time.
• 51:06
  And so I asked Amy if I could bring some men to him and
• 51:09
  combine bow carving with our, our men's retreats.
• 51:12
  And so we did that twice. And then COVID happened and I
• 51:15
  had to cancel a few of them, but I got to go back and Carbos with
• 51:19
  him. I got to go and carbos with him
• 51:21
  on those two trips. I think I carved 3 bows with
• 51:23
  him. And then I just kept working on
• 51:28
  trying to do it on my own, which I have a lot of fails.
• 51:32
  I have a quite a sizable bow graveyard in my workshop, mostly
• 51:39
  choosing the wrong staves and just also, well, all sorts of
• 51:43
  mistakes. But, and that's a big.
• 51:45
  Part too, you know, I I am a but it's absolutely if.
• 51:49
  You don't make those mistakes then.
• 51:51
  But it's it's impossible not to. Really, it's true.
• 51:55
  Unless I had like Jamie. Or you looking over my shoulder
• 51:59
  every single bow I ever carve, I'm going to make those
• 52:01
  mistakes, right? Because you don't get to the
• 52:04
  level of expertise that you have without doing that.
• 52:07
  Absolutely so. Absolutely.
• 52:09
  But then I. Started taking bows to Costa
• 52:11
  Rica to teach and EU bows. Unfortunately we're not holding
• 52:13
  up well there. The humidity is off the charts
• 52:16
  and I have a question about that.
• 52:18
  Because that's really interesting, because you in
• 52:22
  particular is, is hydroscope scopic the right word that's
• 52:28
  generally quite good with moisture.
• 52:30
  That's what I thought. Coming from England, coming from
• 52:32
  the Pacific Northwest, I was like this is gotta be amazing.
• 52:34
  And maybe, maybe say, I will say that the first bow I bought from
• 52:39
  Jamie, which I still have and I still used to teach, has been
• 52:41
  doing fine. I had a couple U bows break that
• 52:44
  one of them I had carved with Jamie, but I had it, I had it
• 52:48
  for like 4 years and I'd shot it in thousands of times.
• 52:51
  And I took it down there and one day it folded on itself,
• 52:55
  literally folded. It creased the wood.
• 52:57
  It did not break. That's also.
• 52:59
  Really odd because U tends to when it goes it's usually
• 53:02
  spectacular. It was like.
• 53:04
  Taking a plastic PVC pipe and creasing it.
• 53:07
  Really. Yeah.
• 53:09
  It's weird. I still have it.
• 53:11
  It's still intact. I don't string it anymore.
• 53:14
  It's just a noodle. It just, it looks fine when it's
• 53:18
  on strung, but there's a when you look closely, there's a
• 53:21
  Ridge on the belly of it that's a crease where it literally
• 53:25
  folded. I've never.
• 53:27
  Seen that before, yeah? So I had a number of bows.
• 53:31
  I had Hickory bows fail there. I had U bows fail.
• 53:33
  Not all of them are ones I had carved either.
• 53:37
  So I started work I started working with laminates and
• 53:40
  started working with tropical wood laminates and that's has
• 53:44
  served me really well. So when I was. 1st starting
• 53:48
  because obviously seasoning takes time.
• 53:51
  That's what I always started with was was laminates, and I
• 53:54
  could see them being quite good because also, I mean, other than
• 53:57
  backings, most of the, at least in the English long bows, most
• 54:03
  of the belly and core woods tend to come from places like Costa
• 54:07
  Rica. Yeah.
• 54:09
  Yeah. So I teach almost.
• 54:11
  I have two flat bows in my quiver that I teach with, but
• 54:14
  the other 15 or so bows are all English long bows.
• 54:18
  Some are laminate, some are you. Most are laminates though.
• 54:23
  And so I've carved a lot. Well, not compared to you.
• 54:25
  I've carved dozens of successful long bows, but most of them have
• 54:30
  been laminates and beautiful bows.
• 54:33
  They work great. Right on.
• 54:35
  I was really. Pleased with them at the time.
• 54:37
  Now, as I kind of mature as a Bowyer, I look at some of them
• 54:39
  and I'm like, it's kind of like when I go back and look at my
• 54:42
  writing from years ago or even last week.
• 54:45
  Yeah, it's like me. Too me too, absolutely.
• 54:49
  And unfortunately, that will never stop.
• 54:52
  No, I. Think that's good?
• 54:53
  It's it keeps us always improving and it keeps us moving
• 54:57
  forward and not just settling for whatever.
• 55:00
  Absolutely. You're in.
• 55:01
  You're in. Positive momentum.
• 55:04
  So I think that's fantastic and we're finding.
• 55:07
  That I'm finding this as we're doing this book is like some of
• 55:10
  the the first 3 bow years. I've already written the
• 55:12
  chapters on them and as I'm going through now and putting it
• 55:15
  into book format and kind of rereading it, I'm just changing
• 55:18
  so much stuff and I'm like, that was only two months ago.
• 55:21
  I'm gonna restart it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask so
• 55:24
  many. Iterations of this book before
• 55:26
  it's finished. I'm just gonna have to, like,
• 55:28
  cut it off at some point because that would be I, I.
• 55:31
  That would actually I'm a perfectionist when.
• 55:32
  It comes to stuff like that. So I I this book in particular
• 55:35
  this book I see as a tribute to everyone who's hosting me and
• 55:40
  who's been generous enough to invite me into their home and
• 55:42
  workshop to to learn from them. And so I want this book to be an
• 55:46
  amazing tribute to each and every one of those individuals.
• 55:50
  So it's it's very important to me that it is of the highest
• 55:54
  quality and representation of their work and their character.
• 55:57
  Yeah, right. No, that makes total sense.
• 55:59
  But I totally understand your anxiety.
• 56:01
  I feel like I would be in the exact same spot where all of a
• 56:05
  sudden, yeah, you look back and go, yeah, it it's not.
• 56:09
  Anxiety for me, I don't know, it's just I just go and think I
• 56:13
  can do that a little bit better. I can do that a little bit
• 56:15
  better. It's going to.
• 56:15
  Mean it's a good product now, yeah.
• 56:18
  Now let me ask you Todd, before I forget, do you have any
• 56:21
  experience with warbos slash interest?
• 56:26
  I definitely have interest. I have not, No.
• 56:29
  The heaviest thing with not. Well, if laminates count, yeah,
• 56:33
  they count. Yeah, but.
• 56:35
  Also, what is your warbo standard 70 lbs or is it 9080 or
• 56:39
  90 lbs to be you know it's. Subjective.
• 56:41
  The the number I've always used is 80, but you know, you can put
• 56:45
  it where you want. Yeah, no my.
• 56:47
  Heaviest alignment is 72 lbs. So let's just say no.
• 56:49
  Yeah. OK, cool.
• 56:52
  When shooting it, how did it feel?
• 56:55
  Good I. And it depends too, I normally
• 56:58
  warm up with some lower weight bows before I shoot 70 plus, but
• 57:04
  I'll find that sometimes I get in rhythms where it feels like a
• 57:06
  40 LB bow and then other days I'm like, what the hell, this
• 57:11
  thing hurts, right? So it's just, and I think it's
• 57:15
  like anything archery, I do very inconsistently compared to
• 57:19
  things like surfing and jiu jitsu, which I'm doing every
• 57:22
  day. And so I know if I have an off
• 57:24
  day, it's not because I'm out of shape, right?
• 57:26
  Archery. Sometimes I'll go a week in
• 57:28
  between lessons and then I just might not even shoot during that
• 57:31
  time. And during the rainy season in
• 57:33
  Costa Rica, sometimes it rains for two weeks straight.
• 57:35
  I'm not doing archery then. So I, I think a lot of that is
• 57:39
  just the ebb and flow of my it. It's crazy because the fitness
• 57:44
  for doing archery is so much different than basically
• 57:48
  anything else. And like I said, I'm doing jiu
• 57:50
  jitsu every day, sometimes twice a day.
• 57:53
  And yet the actual act of drawing back the bow using those
• 57:56
  specific muscles that I'm doing, nothing trains me for that other
• 58:00
  than actually doing that. Very true.
• 58:04
  And I'll. Have people students come to do
• 58:06
  archery who are monsters comparatively to me in physique
• 58:11
  and I'm easily pulling back 70 LB bows and they're not even you
• 58:15
  know they're struggling at the 40 LB level yes.
• 58:18
  You know, these these are guys who can, you know, curl me one
• 58:22
  arm, bench press me right, and it's like way stronger, but the
• 58:27
  technique and the specific muscles that are involved,
• 58:30
  they're so unique and I think it's to a lot of things, but I I
• 58:34
  just. Have to interject because I mean
• 58:36
  what you're saying is so true. Like I used to do public
• 58:38
  demonstrations with heavy bows back when I could really shoot
• 58:43
  heavy bows. Now in the process of working
• 58:45
  back up And what is heavy for? You well at my.
• 58:49
  At my peak strength I could pull 140.
• 58:53
  Well nice now I I'll say I can shoot 100 well in cold weather
• 58:59
  and 110 more like in warm weather well but that's about
• 59:05
  it. But, but even with 80 lbs a
• 59:08
  £100, when we do these demonstrations, one of the most
• 59:12
  fun parts for me is you look in the crowd, you'd see, you know,
• 59:15
  who's the rugby players or the hockey players or, you know,
• 59:18
  like the, who's the, or the gym rats, you know, and you, if they
• 59:22
  were king, you'd get them out and have a go.
• 59:26
  You know, just pulling it and just seeing that kind of look in
• 59:29
  their eyes, they realize, oh, this is different.
• 59:32
  Even though, yeah, they they could military press me no
• 59:34
  problem, you know, sure. But it's well, and they could
• 59:37
  even. Do a standing cable row, which
• 59:39
  is a similar movement, but they're holding on to a big
• 59:42
  beefy metal handle. Yeah.
• 59:45
  Right. Very, very different.
• 59:47
  Than holding on with three fingertips with a little string
• 59:50
  cutting through your fingers. Absolutely.
• 59:52
  Very true. And and also because so much of
• 59:56
  his technique I find like those strong guys, a lot of them can
• 1:00:01
  muscle it back to here. But as soon as all of a sudden
• 1:00:05
  form comes into it where you have to roll the shoulder and
• 1:00:08
  lock straight, then all of a sudden it that's what really
• 1:00:13
  separates. People who are using.
• 1:00:15
  Raw strength and and people who can actually shoot, definitely.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah. It's to be able to do it in a
• 1:00:22
  smooth, fluid way where you can shoot accurately.
• 1:00:26
  Yeah. And for me, it's it's a full
• 1:00:28
  form of meditation. So when I teach archery, I teach
• 1:00:30
  people the meditative aspect of it.
• 1:00:33
  So I really want them first and foremost.
• 1:00:35
  We focus on breath. And I have to come back to that
• 1:00:40
  basically every shot. When I watch people trying to
• 1:00:43
  shoot in the first few rounds, I'll see them shaking or
• 1:00:46
  struggling. And I'll just say, how's your
• 1:00:47
  breathing? How's your breath?
• 1:00:49
  And like, Oh yeah, right, forgot.
• 1:00:51
  And so I always teach to draw back the bow on an inhale and
• 1:00:56
  instead of focusing on drawing back the bow, I tell them to
• 1:00:59
  focus on filling their lungs as much as absolutely possible.
• 1:01:03
  And the only way to do that is to be aware of your physical
• 1:01:08
  movement and where where things are anatomically.
• 1:01:12
  So if your elbow is lower than your clavicle, you cannot take a
• 1:01:16
  full breath because your clavicle actually needs to raise
• 1:01:19
  up. And the only way for it to raise
• 1:01:20
  up is if your upper arm is higher than your clavicle.
• 1:01:23
  And so. I have to.
• 1:01:25
  Tell people get your elbow up because people will try to pull
• 1:01:28
  the elbow back kind of level with the nipples or shoulder
• 1:01:32
  line. And I say, OK, talk to me while
• 1:01:34
  you do that. Yeah, you can't talk, you can't
• 1:01:38
  breathe, so you got to get the elbow up at least as high.
• 1:01:41
  I tell them like jawline or ear, when you do that inhale, when
• 1:01:45
  you do that drawback and just focus on the breath, the bow
• 1:01:48
  will come back. It it, it literally does.
• 1:01:51
  It comes back on its own when you focus on that breath and
• 1:01:53
  that inhalation that that is. Very cool.
• 1:01:55
  What you've just described is you know, when I've, when I
• 1:02:01
  teach people or I've shown people how to shoot, I, I can
• 1:02:06
  only tell them the 2 dimensions, you know basically where your
• 1:02:08
  body should be. But you've just explained
• 1:02:11
  everything so that that is that's very cool.
• 1:02:14
  IA lot of that is news to me. I could probably benefit from
• 1:02:18
  your class, Yeah, and it. Takes it to a whole different
• 1:02:21
  level too, because it's now not just a physical exercise.
• 1:02:26
  It becomes, if you want, it becomes a spiritual exercise, a
• 1:02:30
  spiritual practice. Because when you are connected
• 1:02:32
  with your breath, which most people are not, it takes you and
• 1:02:36
  your body in a whole different way than what we normally
• 1:02:39
  experience. And so I, I'm very convinced
• 1:02:42
  that most people go through life without taking a single
• 1:02:45
  conscious breath in a given day. Like we don't think about it.
• 1:02:49
  We just breathe automatically, but slowing down and taking just
• 1:02:55
  a minute to focus on breathing and just to literally follow,
• 1:02:59
  trace that breath into the body where it goes to trace that
• 1:03:02
  exhale, feel what's happening in your body while you're doing it.
• 1:03:05
  So that's something that archery allows me to bring that to
• 1:03:08
  people. And for me, I'm a, I'm a Qigong
• 1:03:10
  practitioner. I've been doing Qigong for that
• 1:03:13
  makes sense, yes. I don't know 20.
• 1:03:15
  Years and then that comes from my, my background as a Chinese
• 1:03:18
  medicine and Chinese medicine. And so that's what got me into
• 1:03:21
  archery is my Qigong practice. There are archery type moves in
• 1:03:24
  Qigong and I've been doing these for decades.
• 1:03:28
  And one day like 810, whenever I got my first bill 10 years ago,
• 1:03:33
  I was like, I got to actually put a bow into this form because
• 1:03:36
  this feels amazing. I'm drawing back like I'm
• 1:03:38
  shooting a bow, but I'm, I'm only, you know, holding air.
• 1:03:41
  And that's when I ended up finding Jamie and Raven Beak in
• 1:03:44
  my first Longbow. Fascinating.
• 1:03:47
  But yeah, the, the level of embodiment that can happen with
• 1:03:52
  archery and taking people into a just a deep, deep practice and
• 1:03:56
  meditative practices, it's profound.
• 1:04:00
  And then that that release of the string.
• 1:04:04
  Is a huge. Injection of adrenaline for
• 1:04:06
  someone who's never done it before.
• 1:04:08
  So I, I've, I've coined the term Xenolin.
• 1:04:10
  It's a Zen practice with adrenaline.
• 1:04:12
  So it's like getting your dose of Xenolin.
• 1:04:14
  So it's it's you're holding I. Find there's something.
• 1:04:18
  Yeah, that power is incredible. So so I teach people inhale on
• 1:04:24
  the draw, hold the breath, then release the string and then
• 1:04:27
  exhale. And it's so I teach them first
• 1:04:31
  and foremost, it's a breath cycle.
• 1:04:33
  Focus on the breath, stay with the breath.
• 1:04:36
  And then the rest of it kind of comes together.
• 1:04:38
  I think what's really. Fascinating about what you're
• 1:04:40
  doing with that. And you, you've probably touched
• 1:04:44
  on this already, but I think a lot of guys in the guys in
• 1:04:47
  particular who shoot, I think this, that kind of meditative
• 1:04:53
  part of it is something that a lot of us subconsciously enjoy
• 1:04:58
  and do without really realizing it.
• 1:05:00
  You know, like for for me, I'm much more of a Boyer than an
• 1:05:03
  Archer, but when I shoot and shooting is how I got into it, I
• 1:05:08
  would shoot socially. It would be a social thing or it
• 1:05:13
  would be for peace. And even.
• 1:05:17
  Though I might not have put that label on it, I mean, that's what
• 1:05:21
  it was for me. For me, the the romance of it
• 1:05:23
  was going out into a field or forest, but I was generally in a
• 1:05:28
  field usually after a day of work or whatever, you know, sun
• 1:05:32
  low, the animals are out, the sun's hitting the grass, there's
• 1:05:38
  a nice breeze and you just, it's just you, something you've made
• 1:05:44
  stick, string, arrow and you shoot.
• 1:05:47
  And what's really neat about this practice and what you're
• 1:05:52
  talking about is you're able to put narration into that to so to
• 1:05:58
  actually label it correctly to what you're doing.
• 1:06:02
  Well, yeah, I think people. By and large, don't recognize
• 1:06:07
  that archery is a martial art. Yeah, right.
• 1:06:11
  And so. Virtually all martial arts are
• 1:06:13
  practices of deep spiritual connection and, and embodiment.
• 1:06:18
  And so whether you're doing karate or aikido or jiu jitsu or
• 1:06:24
  archery, there's always that component of spiritual and
• 1:06:27
  physical connection. And so I think it's, we've lost
• 1:06:32
  sight of that. Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  And so for me, Qigong also is a form of martial arts.
• 1:06:37
  So for me, it's just, you know, it was always kind of natural
• 1:06:40
  and that's why I got into it. I got into it from my practice
• 1:06:42
  of martial arts. So for me, it's always been a
• 1:06:45
  martial art and A and a practice of that.
• 1:06:47
  Fascinating. I think you've gone into it in a
• 1:06:49
  much more mindful way than most people like I, I I think most
• 1:06:54
  people are searching for that without realizing it.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah, Well, and. Bowyers.
• 1:07:02
  Almost without fail, everyone that I've I've spoken to on this
• 1:07:05
  podcast have all connected into a deeper spiritual realm of bow
• 1:07:11
  carving. It's very meditative and I
• 1:07:15
  literally have interviewed multiple people who got into it
• 1:07:20
  during very, very hard periods of their life.
• 1:07:23
  Some of them speak of had a nervous breakdown.
• 1:07:25
  I got into bow carving. I went through a divorce.
• 1:07:28
  I got into bow carving. I had PTSDI, got into bow
• 1:07:30
  carving. So interesting.
• 1:07:33
  Yeah, there's a deep. Connection with that too.
• 1:07:35
  I think that fits. I think there, there is
• 1:07:39
  something about anything working with your hands, but
• 1:07:41
  particularly you marry into that an organic material, a material
• 1:07:46
  that has a history, you know, starts as a seed, a tree that
• 1:07:52
  you work with. It's a very fluid form.
• 1:07:55
  It's to my knowledge it's the only form of woodworking that
• 1:08:01
  requires such movement of its subject.
• 1:08:07
  I I think that that makes sense and and it is such a peaceful
• 1:08:12
  thing, right? You're just kind of alone in in
• 1:08:15
  your shop or in your yard, wherever you are and the whole
• 1:08:18
  craziness of the world, which is ample, just kind of can float
• 1:08:23
  off over there somewhere. So that makes a lot of sense to
• 1:08:26
  me. Yeah.
• 1:08:27
  And for and. I've also, for my practice of
• 1:08:29
  archery, I shoot both sides. OK.
• 1:08:32
  For you, Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to.
• 1:08:34
  Get them balanced. And I have spoken with people.
• 1:08:37
  Corey Hawk, very powerful, strong man but he only shoots 1
• 1:08:44
  sided and he's noticed physical imbalances and and challenges as
• 1:08:48
  a result of doing that. I have that.
• 1:08:50
  Yeah, I've actually been through X-rays and the nurses have asked
• 1:08:54
  why I'm. Yeah, and you're shooting. 100
• 1:08:56
  plus # bows on a regular basis and even if you're not shooting
• 1:08:59
  them, you're drawing them back as you're making them like
• 1:09:01
  you're testing them. You think about it like going
• 1:09:05
  into a gym and doing reps the 100 plus pounds on one arm.
• 1:09:09
  You wouldn't think of doing that with bicep girls, Yeah.
• 1:09:12
  You wouldn't mean like I'm just going.
• 1:09:13
  To train my right arm for the next 20 years.
• 1:09:15
  It's true. It's true.
• 1:09:17
  I I have to one thing that I'm having to work around because
• 1:09:20
  I've. I've definitely thought of this
• 1:09:22
  a lot, but unfortunately I've kind of ruined my left hand a
• 1:09:25
  little bit. Like this finger doesn't really
• 1:09:26
  work, so I need to try and figure out a way to kind of work
• 1:09:30
  around that. I'm sure that it looks good.
• 1:09:32
  It looks good for the. Draw.
• 1:09:33
  Just not good for the release. Well, that's what.
• 1:09:35
  It is, yeah. I can, I can now move it like
• 1:09:38
  that, but I can't. It's just not nearly as as
• 1:09:42
  strong as the rest. Yeah, but I'm sure there'll be
• 1:09:45
  ways to kind of work around that.
• 1:09:47
  Yeah. Well, the.
• 1:09:48
  Asian, the Asian style of shooting with stretching between
• 1:09:52
  the thumb and of course, yeah. And the index finger, yeah,
• 1:09:55
  absolutely. So there's.
• 1:09:56
  No excuse, but I think it's harder.
• 1:09:59
  To do heavier bows? Well for me it's harder to do
• 1:10:01
  heavier bows that way because I'm not really practice with it,
• 1:10:03
  but. I have a think you can build up
• 1:10:05
  to it. I have a good friend named Dan
• 1:10:07
  McGee. He lives down in Chicago.
• 1:10:11
  He's fantastic in the way of, you know, most people have an
• 1:10:16
  interest in a specific form of archery and he's very
• 1:10:20
  knowledgeable, but he's kind of covers all the bases like he's
• 1:10:24
  done, you know, like Yumi bow building with yap culpa dryer
• 1:10:29
  down South. He's done Turkish stuff, he's
• 1:10:32
  done English stuff. But what's great about that is
• 1:10:36
  he's really knowledgeable of all these different styles.
• 1:10:38
  He might actually, if you come in September, he might be around
• 1:10:41
  then maybe we can anyway. But he's the only person that
• 1:10:46
  I've kind of shot thumb ring with and he had a really kind of
• 1:10:50
  good way of explaining it. It's something I would like to
• 1:10:53
  try more of and I have huge appreciation of the Asiatic
• 1:10:57
  bows. And that's, that's something
• 1:11:00
  I've been kind of at at some point I would like to kind of
• 1:11:03
  branch out and give that a little and I, I think.
• 1:11:05
  The rapid refire that they can do is so cool.
• 1:11:10
  Exactly the way they. Loaded off the thumb and like
• 1:11:12
  some people are shooting multiple arrows.
• 1:11:15
  I think a second. Some people are, yes, it's like.
• 1:11:17
  Holy. Shit, I know.
• 1:11:20
  And it makes sense, like their style makes sense, but wow,
• 1:11:24
  every style does, right? Like depending on what they're
• 1:11:27
  doing. But yeah, I, I find that really
• 1:11:29
  interesting. And I'd like to kind of because
• 1:11:31
  I know and we're now out of the realm of my knowledge.
• 1:11:36
  So, you know, I could be ignorant, but from what I know,
• 1:11:39
  like the the Manchu wore bows in the Far East, I believe they
• 1:11:43
  both shot with thumb ring and very heavy draw weights.
• 1:11:46
  So, you know, there's probably different styles and techniques
• 1:11:51
  that could help with that. But it would be interesting.
• 1:11:56
  I've always specialized in the English bows.
• 1:11:58
  That's kind of where my heart is.
• 1:12:01
  But at some point, because I've dabbled a little bit, you know,
• 1:12:05
  with Comanche bows and stuff like that, but at some point I
• 1:12:08
  would really like to have a go at like a totally different horn
• 1:12:12
  and sinew. Because there's, I know there's
• 1:12:15
  a guy in Sackville, sorry, that's the town I live in.
• 1:12:19
  And he's he's pretty big. I believe in the Turkish archery
• 1:12:24
  world. Really.
• 1:12:25
  Someone in your town? Yeah, I didn't know about it.
• 1:12:27
  Actually, I just found out the hardware store fellow knows us
• 1:12:32
  both and he said that Adam Karpowicz is his name lives here
• 1:12:38
  and he wrote a book on Turkish archery.
• 1:12:41
  I think one of the so he's really.
• 1:12:42
  Into it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:44
  Yeah, I think he's an older fella.
• 1:12:46
  Anyways, I'm meeting up for a tea with him at some point.
• 1:12:50
  I'll have a chat. That's awesome, but I kind.
• 1:12:52
  Of. Want to it's?
• 1:12:54
  Strange Sackville. 'S a weird town where we are.
• 1:12:56
  It's kind of, it's so many people either have spent time
• 1:13:00
  here. It's.
• 1:13:02
  Yeah, it's kind of odd. So it's almost not surprising
• 1:13:04
  that there's some strange guy like me living out in the marsh
• 1:13:08
  making bows. But that's I.
• 1:13:11
  Told this story a few weeks ago when I was interviewing Pete
• 1:13:13
  Woodland. He, I knew there was a Bowyer
• 1:13:16
  who lived near me on here on Lower Vancouver Island.
• 1:13:20
  And I kept hearing about him. And then one day he and his wife
• 1:13:24
  were at my farm. My wife invited him over and we
• 1:13:26
  were walking around and I'd actually been emailing with this
• 1:13:29
  strange person. Oh, really?
• 1:13:31
  I was like, I want to meet you. I want to see what you do.
• 1:13:33
  And then just never happened. And then chatting with him as
• 1:13:37
  we're walking around the farm and I don't know how it came up,
• 1:13:39
  but he's like, yeah, I'm a Boer. I'm like holy shit you're the
• 1:13:42
  dude. That's hilarious.
• 1:13:43
  You're the guy I've. Been messaging and he's like is
• 1:13:46
  that you 4? 100 meters.
• 1:13:48
  Down the road from me. Oh wow.
• 1:13:50
  That's wild. What are the chances, eh?
• 1:13:54
  Well, and that's. Like as we're doing this book
• 1:13:56
  when we started out. It was.
• 1:14:00
  Like, yeah, we'll do a book, It'll be great.
• 1:14:02
  We'll go and, you know, interview and car with a dozen
• 1:14:05
  of the best in the world. There can't be that many more
• 1:14:07
  than that. And now it's like, oh, wow, OK,
• 1:14:11
  we need another book and maybe a third book and maybe a fourth
• 1:14:14
  book, because they're all coming out of the.
• 1:14:16
  Amazing bow years all. Around the world and we started
• 1:14:19
  to get get a sense of that when some people have 100 + 1000
• 1:14:22
  followers on their bow carving YouTube channels.
• 1:14:24
  It's like, OK, there's a lot of people watching this stuff when
• 1:14:28
  it's growing. You know, I that's one thing
• 1:14:30
  I've noticed with is it's it's really growing.
• 1:14:33
  But but that is such a cool story because I do feel like
• 1:14:38
  you're in a bit of a hotspot with at least archery in Canada.
• 1:14:43
  BCI think is kind of like there's a ton of lawyers doing
• 1:14:48
  self bows. I mean, mainly 'cause that's
• 1:14:52
  where the best material in the country is.
• 1:14:55
  So it's, it's kind of neat that you just happen to live in a
• 1:14:58
  place where you're, you know, surrounded by some.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah, there's a few that. We're not including in the book
• 1:15:05
  that I'm aware of anyway, that and, and there's three that are
• 1:15:08
  going to be in the book from 2 from the Vancouver Island and
• 1:15:11
  one Jamie from just off of the island.
• 1:15:13
  So who's the other fella? On Vancouver Island, if you
• 1:15:16
  don't mind me asking? Well, we're interviewing.
• 1:15:18
  We're working with Ryan Gautier. Oh fantastic.
• 1:15:21
  He's great. He's great.
• 1:15:23
  Yeah. So that's.
• 1:15:24
  We leave tomorrow, actually, we'll be there this time
• 1:15:26
  tomorrow. I'm going to be carving a boat
• 1:15:27
  with Ryan. Oh, say hi to him.
• 1:15:29
  For me, I yeah, I was just speaking with him on Yeah and
• 1:15:33
  then. He's got a friend in Haida.
• 1:15:36
  Guai. Who car.
• 1:15:38
  Or is it Fletcher Stump Stalker is his handle.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah. Oh, I.
• 1:15:41
  Know that guy Blaine Blake's name?
• 1:15:45
  Blaine. Blaine Blake.
• 1:15:46
  Something, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I haven't reached out to him
• 1:15:49
  because we're not doing just fletching in this.
• 1:15:53
  That's a four leather. Book series, yeah.
• 1:15:56
  And I think there's a. There's a guy named Clark, yes.
• 1:15:59
  Say Dunn. Downhill.
• 1:16:01
  Dental. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:16:02
  Same guy. Yeah.
• 1:16:03
  Yeah, I know. I think he's in the Kutneys of
• 1:16:04
  BC I haven't reached out to him either.
• 1:16:07
  And largely because what I'm trying to do for this book is
• 1:16:09
  have a wide range of different styles from the bow years.
• 1:16:12
  And so as I'm carving a bow with each bow year, each bow I'm
• 1:16:16
  carving is unique and kind of consistent with that bow.
• 1:16:20
  Your style or passion. And so I didn't want to have
• 1:16:24
  eight different English long bow years.
• 1:16:26
  Yeah, because quite I, I, Jamie, I had to have in this book
• 1:16:31
  because he's the one, you know, he's the reason I got started.
• 1:16:33
  You know, I bought my first bow from him and learned a car from
• 1:16:36
  him then. He's fantastic.
• 1:16:38
  He's an amazing Bowyer. And so once I had Jamie, I'm
• 1:16:41
  like, OK, we got the English Longbow category filled up.
• 1:16:44
  So that kind of narrowed it down.
• 1:16:47
  But then you came in. Sorry.
• 1:16:48
  Well, it's a war bow. It's a little bit different.
• 1:16:51
  So yeah, we'll see if we can bend.
• 1:16:53
  It a little bit. We'll keep it traditionally.
• 1:16:57
  But anyway, like I said, well, that's, that's a question mark
• 1:17:01
  whether I can come see you this year or not.
• 1:17:02
  But we'll look into it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:04
  Just let me know. Because and if not, we.
• 1:17:08
  Definitely do plan on like as this thing unfolds.
• 1:17:11
  I'm I'm already casting my sights on the future in another
• 1:17:14
  book. Excellent.
• 1:17:16
  Well, we're not going anywhere, so I'll be easy to find.
• 1:17:19
  Like I said, winter is probably not the best time.
• 1:17:23
  No, you can. Do no, nobody wants to come to.
• 1:17:26
  The Maritimes in the winter. Yeah, well.
• 1:17:30
  Other than that. I'm sure it's.
• 1:17:32
  Beautiful, but it's it is it's. Hard to get anywhere, but it's
• 1:17:35
  beautiful. Yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Yeah. We'll keep it in the.
• 1:17:39
  The warmer weather. So, yeah.
• 1:17:41
  And I'm not much of A winter person anymore after living in
• 1:17:43
  Costa Rica. Yeah, a number of years picking
• 1:17:46
  that up. I got a hoodie on.
• 1:17:48
  Here and it's summer outside, so it's.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah, right, eh, Yeah. It's true, a little.
• 1:17:52
  Bit soft I. I, I can't complain.
• 1:17:55
  That's what I used to do. When I would go down to when I
• 1:17:58
  would travel all the time. I was always away.
• 1:18:00
  We would, you know, we'd go to the Middle East or South Africa
• 1:18:04
  or wherever in the winter time. Wow.
• 1:18:06
  You know, and then you you've. Done a lot of travelling.
• 1:18:08
  I've been very. Fortunate.
• 1:18:10
  Yeah, very fortunate. And is that?
• 1:18:13
  How much of that was for bows? Probably half.
• 1:18:15
  And how? Much.
• 1:18:16
  Really. OK, Yeah, I.
• 1:18:18
  'Cause I would get all these contacts and then either I could
• 1:18:22
  make bows there, so I'd set up shops in the different countries
• 1:18:25
  I'd go to and sell locally. So cool.
• 1:18:27
  Or. I would.
• 1:18:29
  Get other work, you know, like when I was in Greece, I ended up
• 1:18:33
  knocking on a door and ended up working for an old lady who
• 1:18:36
  didn't speak English, but she made leather shoes.
• 1:18:38
  So, you know, did that for a while or worked on an olive
• 1:18:42
  farm. Or when my now wife and I were
• 1:18:46
  in the Middle East, we lived with Bedouins for quite a long
• 1:18:49
  time out in the desert. And you don't need much money to
• 1:18:52
  do that. And, you know, you just, if you
• 1:18:55
  have, see, this is where I was really lucky.
• 1:18:57
  If you have time and you don't have proper responsibilities and
• 1:19:02
  you have really low standards as far as comfort, then, yeah, you
• 1:19:08
  can get away with with doing an awful lot.
• 1:19:12
  Yeah. And so I lived in Sri Lanka.
• 1:19:14
  For a year and really. Yeah, that's where I.
• 1:19:16
  Originally studied acupuncture and travelling around.
• 1:19:20
  I was staying in what are called guest houses and they were.
• 1:19:24
  $2.00 a. Night, maybe $3.
• 1:19:27
  And at. Times it was just a mad on the
• 1:19:29
  floor, right? And that was.
• 1:19:31
  Totally fine by me, right? I think this is great.
• 1:19:34
  Yep. And if I really wanted to
• 1:19:35
  splurge, like I could go to a hotel and I could get a room and
• 1:19:38
  it was like 10 bucks and then it's luxury normally.
• 1:19:41
  I was just mad. On the floor is good for me,
• 1:19:43
  absolutely. And there gets to be kind of a
• 1:19:47
  different point of view. You start to appreciate things,
• 1:19:50
  Yeah, you spend more time. In the local culture, the
• 1:19:53
  families would invite us, me, sometimes I was travelling with
• 1:19:57
  people but they would invite me to eat with them.
• 1:19:59
  And it was just a a different, a more immersive experience as
• 1:20:03
  opposed to now go to a hotel or an Airbnb and chances are you
• 1:20:07
  don't get the chance to interact with anyone who's local notice.
• 1:20:11
  That the most authentic experiences are the least
• 1:20:14
  comfortable and. Certainly the most memorable,
• 1:20:19
  yeah. My best stories were, yeah,
• 1:20:22
  borderline traumatic at the time.
• 1:20:24
  But, you know, they turned into these huge lessons, right?
• 1:20:28
  Well, and that's. It's cool that you mentioned
• 1:20:31
  that, because my kind of philosophy for traveling and I
• 1:20:34
  did a lot of it before I I had my son and daughter and getting
• 1:20:38
  to do it again now with my daughter, but that's so cool.
• 1:20:40
  It's those. Hard times.
• 1:20:42
  That we remember the most. And So what I remind myself now
• 1:20:47
  or tell myself now is when I'm going through one of those hard
• 1:20:50
  situations, I mean, this is going to be memorable.
• 1:20:53
  We're going to tell a story about this.
• 1:20:54
  We're not going to tell a story about the posh comfort when
• 1:20:57
  everything goes well and there's no adversity.
• 1:21:00
  So we're going to tell stories about when shit hit the fan,
• 1:21:03
  100. Percent, You're going to tell
• 1:21:06
  everybody about when your car broke down, you're stranded and
• 1:21:08
  you had to hitchhike out. You're not going to tell people
• 1:21:11
  about the all inclusive resort you went to, right?
• 1:21:13
  Like not in years to come. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:21:16
  Right. So I think it's really.
• 1:21:18
  Important for me anyway to keep that in mind.
• 1:21:21
  So when I'm actually in the thick of it, OK, I need to do
• 1:21:24
  better. At that, that is a very good
• 1:21:26
  practice that is true to think about.
• 1:21:29
  And yeah, I have to say too I'm. I just love that you're doing
• 1:21:33
  this with with your daughter. You know my son's only three.
• 1:21:37
  So we've got a ways to go. I mean, we travel with them, but
• 1:21:40
  well, but it's such a difference when you have kids.
• 1:21:45
  I mean, I've only been a dad for three years, but like, man, what
• 1:21:49
  a difference. It's incredibly awesome.
• 1:21:51
  But everything changes your whole, you know, we're, we're
• 1:21:56
  planning on, you know, rambling again, hitting the road again,
• 1:21:59
  but all of a sudden we're it's going to be different.
• 1:22:02
  You know, it's going to be a totally different kind of
• 1:22:04
  experience and just seeing yourself where your daughter is,
• 1:22:08
  is is, was she a teenager? She's 15.
• 1:22:11
  Yeah, right on. Doing something like this,
• 1:22:15
  fantastic for both of you. I mean, yeah, it's next level.
• 1:22:20
  And and I see it in her too. Like, we're so excited about
• 1:22:23
  this. And I get it.
• 1:22:27
  You're traveling with your son when he's 3.
• 1:22:29
  It's great. And I just found that he just
• 1:22:30
  keeps getting better because as they start to become like,
• 1:22:33
  little adults, yeah, real people like my daughter now, it's like
• 1:22:37
  she's just like my best friend. And we go and travel.
• 1:22:39
  It's like, this is amazing. This is so cool.
• 1:22:42
  And then to have a a mission like have this project be
• 1:22:45
  working on it just takes it to a whole nother level, man.
• 1:22:48
  So it's that what you? Just said that excites me
• 1:22:51
  greatly because yeah, yeah. And it's the, it's the.
• 1:22:55
  Same with my son. My son wants to, he's 12.
• 1:22:58
  We surf together almost every day.
• 1:23:00
  And so like I know our trips are going to be very different when
• 1:23:02
  we're together, that's we're always going to be looking for
• 1:23:05
  waves and and that's fantastic. Like there's nothing that I can
• 1:23:09
  that I enjoy more than being out at sunrise with my son sitting
• 1:23:13
  on our boards waiting for the next wave.
• 1:23:15
  And we just look at each other and we just laugh and we smile
• 1:23:18
  because it's just like, this is our life.
• 1:23:19
  This is amazing, this is so beautiful.
• 1:23:21
  Talk about. Quality time and instilling this
• 1:23:24
  sense of adventure, gratefulness, all those good
• 1:23:28
  things, you know, from doing that.
• 1:23:30
  And also I, I was really lucky. So I, I grew up with parents
• 1:23:35
  that I really have a good relationship with and they were
• 1:23:38
  always very supportive of my sometimes very unorthodox
• 1:23:42
  choices. And seeing you do that with your
• 1:23:46
  kid and just allowing them because it sounds like I don't,
• 1:23:51
  I don't know the details, but it sounds like you, you guys are
• 1:23:55
  living maybe an unconventional life and, but you're allowing
• 1:24:00
  them to pursue clearly what they're interested in.
• 1:24:03
  And I just think you can't go wrong with that.
• 1:24:07
  It's really cool to see I. Agree.
• 1:24:09
  I agree completely. Pursuing our passions, I think
• 1:24:13
  is one of the most important things we can do for me to be
• 1:24:16
  able to give that opportunity to my kids beyond what is expected
• 1:24:21
  of like traditional schooling. And you know, no, no, you got to
• 1:24:24
  wait till you're 18 before you can go out and see the world.
• 1:24:27
  But no, then you got to go get a degree before you can do that.
• 1:24:30
  And well, then you got to get set up with a career.
• 1:24:32
  It's like, wait a minute. Absolutely.
• 1:24:35
  Any of that. Fulfilling like how and how are
• 1:24:37
  we contributing to the world by just falling along like these
• 1:24:43
  lemmings over the edge of a Cliff when the world's
• 1:24:45
  different? It used to be you could, you
• 1:24:48
  know, for a short period, very short period in history, you
• 1:24:50
  could get an education, get a good job, get a pension, all
• 1:24:54
  that sort of thing. Nothing's guaranteed anymore.
• 1:24:56
  And I, I think following what you're interested in or your
• 1:25:02
  kids interested in is the ticket cuz that's they, I don't know, I
• 1:25:06
  feel like they kind of know the education they need.
• 1:25:08
  I feel like I always knew what education I really needed.
• 1:25:12
  I don't think for, for me, high school is fantastic and post
• 1:25:15
  secondary for some people, I don't mean to, you know, down
• 1:25:19
  talk that, but for me, I never needed high school.
• 1:25:22
  I don't think I learned anything from it.
• 1:25:24
  I learned an awful lot in the evenings and on weekends making
• 1:25:27
  bows and yeah, you know, travelling the world.
• 1:25:30
  And studying under all these amazing mentors like and that's
• 1:25:33
  what built my. Life How can you do better?
• 1:25:35
  Than that, yeah, exactly. So, you know, I think I think
• 1:25:41
  really following your what the kid is, yeah, you know,
• 1:25:45
  interested in is definitely the there's a huge paradigm.
• 1:25:47
  Shift I'm feeling now and that's something that people are doing
• 1:25:51
  a lot more. It changed our generation
• 1:25:53
  growing up. It really, it sounds like you,
• 1:25:56
  you managed to do it. But for me it really wasn't kind
• 1:25:59
  of on the map. It was no, you go to school, you
• 1:26:01
  get your diploma, then you go and get your degree and.
• 1:26:05
  And it was during. That process, I was like, wait a
• 1:26:07
  minute, This is this feels weird.
• 1:26:09
  Yeah, yeah. There you go.
• 1:26:11
  Because it wasn't I studied. I studied medicine, I did my
• 1:26:14
  undergrad in medicine and it was just going through the motions.
• 1:26:17
  Getting the degree had great grades.
• 1:26:20
  That was never an issue for me. But then right after I I
• 1:26:23
  graduated from university, I went to Sri Lanka to study with
• 1:26:27
  my mentor who taught me acupuncture.
• 1:26:29
  And literally I went from sitting in a classroom being
• 1:26:33
  bored out of my mind, memorizing shit so I could regurgitate it
• 1:26:37
  in ACE exams, but having no practical application of it
• 1:26:41
  whatsoever. And then I went to Sri Lanka and
• 1:26:43
  on Day 2 I had patients who I was supposed to stick
• 1:26:46
  acupuncture really on day. 2 day one I had tropical.
• 1:26:49
  Fruit as my patient day two. It was real people.
• 1:26:52
  That's hilarious. And you went from A and then it
• 1:26:55
  was. Just like it changed everything.
• 1:26:57
  And I started to actually, there were very few English bookstores
• 1:27:01
  in in Colombo, the city where I was living in.
• 1:27:03
  But I would seek those out and I would start and I started buying
• 1:27:07
  medical textbooks, the same books that I had hated all
• 1:27:09
  through university because there was no relevance to them then.
• 1:27:13
  It was just memorized. But now I had people, I had
• 1:27:17
  patients who needed help and they were coming with various
• 1:27:20
  diagnosis. And all of a sudden it's like,
• 1:27:22
  oh, I need an anatomy book. I need to go back through this
• 1:27:25
  so I can understand where I'm putting the needles.
• 1:27:27
  And there was a reason. I now there was a reason.
• 1:27:30
  Absolutely. It really that degree really
• 1:27:34
  ended up helping me, but at the time I had no idea.
• 1:27:38
  I was like, this is this is just boring.
• 1:27:40
  I'm just doing this stuff because that's what you're
• 1:27:43
  supposed to do. But once I got into my passion,
• 1:27:45
  and acupuncture was an absolute passion.
• 1:27:48
  Once I got into that, it was a whole different thing.
• 1:27:50
  And so that's what I've for my kids, yeah.
• 1:27:53
  I want them to follow their passions.
• 1:27:55
  And I, I don't care what they do for schooling.
• 1:27:59
  Like my, my daughter is a high school dropout and I absolutely
• 1:28:03
  love it. Good for her.
• 1:28:05
  And she's killing it. And you know what Better
• 1:28:08
  education than traveling the world writing a book?
• 1:28:11
  Absolutely. And if that's what she's into,
• 1:28:15
  whether it's writing or photography or or whatever, to
• 1:28:19
  me, and I think in the world to come, what's going to be much
• 1:28:22
  more beneficial than sometimes a degree is if you can make real
• 1:28:28
  connections with people. And you can also be like, check
• 1:28:31
  out this book. You know, I did that when I was
• 1:28:32
  15. You know, that is going to speak
• 1:28:35
  volumes for itself. And yeah, as there's less
• 1:28:40
  guarantees, I think there's going to be, it's more space and
• 1:28:45
  it's going to be more important for the creative side, but less.
• 1:28:49
  Guarantees which with the state of our economy and inflation
• 1:28:53
  there's no guarantees anymore exactly so I would rather
• 1:28:58
  personally myself and have my kids do the things that we love
• 1:29:01
  and fulfill us then worry about how are we going to stockpile
• 1:29:04
  cash so we're ready for whatever that's right because.
• 1:29:08
  And a year that cash is worth half of what it is now
• 1:29:11
  potentially. Absolutely.
• 1:29:12
  It's like, yeah, let's let's follow our dreams.
• 1:29:14
  That those bows that we're making, yeah, those photos that
• 1:29:17
  you're taking, that book that we're creating, those are things
• 1:29:20
  that we can always look back on and and be so grateful for that
• 1:29:24
  opportunity. Absolutely.
• 1:29:25
  And I think. When you follow those interests,
• 1:29:27
  it builds this inner resilience. You know, when you've had these
• 1:29:31
  experiences, you know your limits, not your limits.
• 1:29:37
  You know, like what you can do, it gives you confidence,
• 1:29:40
  especially as a young person, at least myself.
• 1:29:43
  I think that's a big thing that's really difficult is, you
• 1:29:48
  know, first of all, kids in today's society, they really are
• 1:29:50
  superfluous. In in the past, kids always had
• 1:29:54
  a purpose. They were needed, you know, on
• 1:29:56
  the farm or whatever it is. Today's kids, No.
• 1:30:00
  And they know that. I knew that.
• 1:30:02
  And so it's you have to find your way.
• 1:30:04
  And so you get to that age. And I think a lot of kids, what
• 1:30:08
  holds them back other than, you know, maybe limiting things told
• 1:30:12
  them by their parents, but it's also their own confidence.
• 1:30:15
  And so if you can build that confidence and following what
• 1:30:17
  you're interested in, knowing that if you are interested in
• 1:30:20
  something, you'll do it right, You'll figure it out, then that
• 1:30:24
  builds that inner resilience that, you know, yeah.
• 1:30:26
  Economy tanks, who knows what happens, right?
• 1:30:31
  Natural disaster and you got to relocate.
• 1:30:32
  I don't care what it is. You'll have that resilience, I
• 1:30:35
  think where it gives you that, that ability to know that you'll
• 1:30:40
  you'll keep on doing cool stuff. So yeah, that's pretty.
• 1:30:46
  Jake, this has been awesome. Man, I'm looking at the clock.
• 1:30:48
  We've been on here for 2 1/2 hours.
• 1:30:50
  Manny, I didn't even realize. That had some breakdowns in.
• 1:30:53
  Tech technology. But this has been great.
• 1:30:56
  I really appreciate getting to know you in this opportunity so
• 1:31:00
  well. Likewise.
• 1:31:01
  Todd, thank you. I'm honored to be included in
• 1:31:03
  the in the podcast and it's great talking to you and, and,
• 1:31:07
  and yeah, I look forward to hopefully seeing you in the
• 1:31:09
  future. Yeah.
• 1:31:11
  Well, it's definitely stay in touch.
• 1:31:12
  We've got a lot of collaboration ahead of us.
• 1:31:14
  So right on. Thank you.
• 1:31:16
  For all that you do. And for putting your beautiful
• 1:31:19
  bows and keeping the legacy of of Beau carving alive and
• 1:31:22
  bringing those out to the world. My pleasure both.
• 1:31:25
  Thanks, Todd. I'm I'm also really interested
• 1:31:28
  to see the rest of your journey that you and your your daughter
• 1:31:31
  are doing. So it's really cool.
• 1:31:33
  Awesome. Thanks so much.
• 1:31:44
  to Project Quipper on Salish Wolf.
• 1:31:46
  Follow our journey on Instagram at Project Quiver as we seek out
• 1:31:50
  the world's most extraordinary traditional boat years and join
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• 1:31:56
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• 1:31:59
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• 1:32:03
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