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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: FROM THE BEGINNING · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: This is very concerning to us.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: We don't typically you don't typically get the sheriff out
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: at a scene like this, but it's very concerning what
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: we're learning from the house, and so we'll.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Just continue.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: The detectives there.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: A homicide team is out right now looking at the
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: scene as well.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: What is it about the scene that concerns you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get into those details.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: I would just tell you that it's certainly a great
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: concern to us just what we.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: See there, and we'll continue to look.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: So you suspect foul play.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not willing it out.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Would you gauge the chances are that it's foul play?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Would you be willing to give us any idea on that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I hope it's not. I hope we find her. I
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: hope we find her safe.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And so out tonight, our friend Savannah Guthrie needs our help,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: including you. Her eighty four year old mother in Arizona
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: is missing right now, is being treated as a crime scene.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Mack, joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, Dave,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: what do we know?
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: We know that Nancy, a relative called nine to one
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: one yesterday just around twelve noon and reported Nancy Guthrie,
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: eighty four years old, missing. Now, Nancy, there are several
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: things to consider here. The Sheriff's department has already said
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: this looks like a crime scene in that house. They
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: went out right away and already got boots on the ground.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: They even brought in homicide detectives early. Nancy, do you
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: want to clarify that Nancy Guthrie at eighty four years old,
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: lives in Catalina Foothills, which is just north of Tucson, Arizona.
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: She was last seen Saturday night around nine thirty. It
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: was on Sunday, as I said, midday when a relative
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: called nine one one saying we've got a missing woman.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: And I've got to assume there's more to it based
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: on the amount of assets being used right now to
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: the locator.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Guys, at this hour, our friend, my former coworker, Savannah Guthrie,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: needs our help. Her mother, her eighty four year old mother,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: has gone missing. Nancy Guthrie gone last seen Sunday night.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie five five, one hundred and fifty pounds, brown hair,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes, just like Savannah. There is a tip
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: line five two zero three five one forty nine hundred
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: five two zero three five one forty nine hundred. Now
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: this is in the Catalina Foothills near Tucson in Arizona.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Please look at this photo. We know what Savannah looks like.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: This is her mother. Please help us find this eighty
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: four year old mom. Another thing I'm learning, Dave, Mike,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: hold on, Dave. I'm being joined now by not only
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, our friend joining us out of LA,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but Brian Fitzgibbons. He is the director of Operations for
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: go all over the world, specializing in locating missing people
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: USPA Security dot Com. Brian, thank you for joining us tonight. Brian.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I know this. I know that we're being told. Left
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: beyond are her keys, her ID, her purse, her phone, everything.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: That's what we're learning at this hour. What do we
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: do now she's limited in mobility. Listen to me, the sheriff,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Chris Nato says, she did not just walk out of there, Brian,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So what do we do right now? I would immediately
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: bring in canines, both types of knines, scent dogs, tracker
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: dogs and cadaver dogs. I bring them both in right now.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: Nancy and Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos has made some
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: immediate coordination to have those things happen. You had canine
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: teams brought over from Customs and Border Patrol, helicopter assets
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: in the air, as well as drones with search and
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: rescue technologies searching the immediate area, because, as you said,
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: you know, Nancy got through being eighty four years old
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: with some medical conditions was not going to walk on
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: her own power a significant distance.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: So those assets have been utilized, and.
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: Unfortunately law enforcement has come up with nothing from that.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Fitzgibbons, I just made a horrible, horrible mistake,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. I just when Brian was talking about
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: her meeting meds, I thought about my mom. Last night,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, quarter of twelve. I was in my
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: mom's room. She lives with us. She just turned ninety four,
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  Speaker 1: and I saw where she had not had her nightmads.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: And they're in one of those big boxes, you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: where you lay them out. There's so many day by day,
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  Speaker 1: and there's morning meds and there's nightmas and If she
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't have those meds, she'll die. They thin her blood,
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  Speaker 1: therefore her heart. That just I don't even know what
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: they all are. And without those meds, she'll die. My
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: mom will die. She has to have those meds. And
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about what the sheriff said, that she's
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: not mobile. She can't, you know, just walk out of there.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: They're treating it like a crime scene, Doctor Bethany. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I know we keep showing smiley pictures of Savannah Bethany,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: but Savannah is not just a famous TV star. You know,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: she's the co host of to the Today Show. I
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: still think of Savannah when she first came to join
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: me at Court TV. And she is the same sweet,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: kind person now that she was then before she became
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a huge star. Just when you see her smiling unlike
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of TV people, that's real. That's who Savannah is.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking tonight, doctor Bethany, when you have your
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: mom in a let's just say, a rest time or
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: a retirement community, and that's what the mom wants. They
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: want to be independent, they want to live on their own.
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  Speaker 1: But the whole time you're riddled with fear. Yes, you're
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: taking care of your own children, your own family, your
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: own job. But every day you're worried. I wonder if
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Mom's okay. But I know she must be totally riddled
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: with fear.
• 7:35
  Speaker 7: Nancy. She must be terrified, you know, because you have
• 7:38
  Speaker 7: a ninety four year old mom and I just lost
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: my ninety five year old dad this past year. When
• 7:43
  Speaker 7: you have a parent that age, it activates the same
• 7:47
  Speaker 7: feelings as if you have a baby. You're always wondering,
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: is the baby okay? Are they being cared for even
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: if they're in a nursing home. Are their meals being
• 7:56
  Speaker 7: brought regularly? Is somebody abusing them? Parents want autonomy. Mine did.
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: He had his car keys until the day he died.
• 8:06
  Speaker 7: He did not want to go to a nursing facility.
• 8:09
  Speaker 7: I arranged everybody in the church to visit him on
• 8:12
  Speaker 7: a regular basis. He just thought he had millions of friends,
• 8:14
  Speaker 7: which he did, but he didn't realize everybody was kind
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: of having like a caretaker network, if.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 8:20
  Speaker 7: So Savannah already is struggling with feelings and has been.
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: I'm sure she and her sibling group and her family
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: with how do we take care of mom? And when
• 8:32
  Speaker 7: a parent goes into a facility of some sort. What
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: happens is that the caretaker usually needs respite, meaning they're
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: having caregiver burnout. But on the other hand, it goes
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: against all of their internalized belief systems about what it
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: means to care for family members, so it sets in
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: place like this complex bereavement process. Nancy, I'm so worried
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: about this mom. I have to say one more thing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: Was she being targeted by somebody who was defrauding her,
• 9:05
  Speaker 7: taking her money, or targeting her because of a lurid
• 9:10
  Speaker 7: fascination with Savannah? Was she targeted because of her daughter's notoriety.
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: There's so much more we need to know about this.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Kid, doctor Bethany. That just adds more suffering onto Savannah
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to think that somehow someone targeted her mother because of her.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Dave matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, we are hearing that
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: missus Guthrie, Nancy Guthrie vanished shortly after being dropped off
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: at home by friends. She was coming home from a
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: church function on Saturday night. Are those the people to
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: last see her? I wonder if she made a phone
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: call or anything after that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: Well, that's what we know is that she was dropped off,
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: and it was family that actually was with her when
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: they dropped her off Saturday evening. Now she does live
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: by herself, Nancy. And it was the next morning. I
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: remember we said she did someth thing with church on
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Saturday evening. So when she didn't show up at church
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  Speaker 5: on Sunday morning, members of the church contacted family and
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: they went to the house and that's when they discovered
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: she was missing. So we know when she arrived at home,
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: and we know that she did not go to church
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  Speaker 5: the next morning. A couple of other things to point out, Nancy.
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  Speaker 5: Law enforcement is saying they are not treating this as
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: anything other than a crime scene at her house. That's
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  Speaker 5: important because usually we're talking about these as we're looking
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: for somebody it's a missing person. They're talking this is
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  Speaker 5: a crime scene. She did not leave the home on
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: her own, and they have at it. You mentioned the medication.
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: Her not getting her medication within twenty four hours is
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: a fatal thing for her. So this medication, everything about this,
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: it is really timely. Right now. Time is of the essence, Nancy.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Another thing, Dave matt Hey, let me throw this to
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  Speaker 1: Brian's Gibbons because it may weigh in on his opinion
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: of what should be happening right now. Brian, Nancy Guthrie,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Savannah's mother is not suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's or
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: any other mental defect at all. She has no cognitive decline.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Okay nothing. It's not like she just wandered out of
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  Speaker 1: the house and she's just wandered into a body of
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  Speaker 1: water and died. That did not happen. Here's what I
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: wanted to throw at you, Brian. Her front door, we
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: are told, was wide open. Now, Brian, nobody leaves their
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: door wide open. The last thing my mom says is,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I'm walking out of her room at night, shut the
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: door because she thinks it's colder in her room if
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I leave the door open. And she's actually right, there's
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: no way this eighty four year old mom leaves her
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  Speaker 1: door wide open. That didn't happen. So that said, what
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: do we do?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you've correctly highlighted something here.
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  Speaker 6: This is not a standard case of a missing elder
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: where some medical event has led to temporary confusion, or
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: that there was early on set dementia or something like that.
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  Speaker 4: We have the Pima.
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  Speaker 6: County sheriff clearly identifying that this is a crime scene.
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  Speaker 6: We have a door left wide open right which a
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: woman living alone is not going of sound mind, is
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  Speaker 6: not going to do this. And he's been very crystal
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: clear about the assets that have been brought in very quickly.
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: So all of these things add up to let us
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  Speaker 6: know that something happened to miss Guthrie on the night
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: of the thirty first, after she was dropped off, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: that this.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Is and in just a few hours, Brian, we've got
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: a very narrow timeline. She's dropped off of the church
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: function Saturday evening, Sunday morning time for church, she's gone.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: We got maybe a ten hour window right there. How
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: does that help Brian or Hurt.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: That's incredibly helpful because what law enforcement is doing now
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: and in the statement that just happened hours ago, they
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: are beginning an extensive search of license plate readers, all
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: camera surveillance in the area.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: They're soliciting tips from the public.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: So they're moving They're shifting their focus to a technology
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: focus now to piece together that timeline. Having it narrowed
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: down is going to make it a faster process.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Savannah, of course, has the left new York and is
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: in Arizona aiding in the search for her mother. There's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: no way Savannah Guthrie would sit home while other people
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: are looking for her beloved mother, Nancy Guthrie, Dave mac
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigator, did I understand that the FBI has
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: been brought in.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: They have been, Nancy, and you know, authorities are not
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: aware of any threats against Savannah Guthrie. But Nancy, you
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: mentioned that Savannah Guthrie is a very high profile news
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: celebrity and co host of the NBC Today Show. Would
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: not be unusual for threats against her. They're not saying that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: But the FBI is aware of this case, as is
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: US Customs and Border Protection also assisting Nancy. You know,
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: they brought in all the asset drones, helicopters and everything
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: right away, but you know, we have found out they've
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: all been sent home At this point, I don't know
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: what they've found out, but certain aspects of this investigation
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: are changing.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Guys, if you know or think you know anything about
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the disappearance of Savannah's mom, Nancy Guthrie, please dial five
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: two zero three five one forty nine hundred pete five
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: two zero three five one forty nine hundred and of course,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: please join us in prayer that Nancy Guthrie is brought home,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: alive and well.
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing, day three.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: What does a mystery car have to do with this? Also,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: we are learning the DNA found inside missus Guthrie's home
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: is her DNA. That DNA significant because it leads law
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: enforcement to state that she has been abducted. When asked,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is abducted to strong over a word to use? The
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: PMA County Sheriff says, no, she was dragged out of
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: her home. This eighty four year old grandma in the night.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, sy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us first of all,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: what we are learning right now. We're getting to the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: DNA found in her home. It's been reported that it
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: was blood. We don't know that yet, but we do
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: know it is Nancy Guthrie's DNA. However, it's her home.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Of course her DNA is there, So what concerns the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: police about that DNA?
• 16:38
  Speaker 9: Is it?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: The amount of DNA is it the location of the DNA.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get into it, but I need to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: go to Grace Stafford right now. It's doctor Grace Stafford.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: He is the star podcast zoo Logic, author of Zoomility,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: He is faculty member of Grand King University, and so
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: much more. But doctor Grace Stafford, let me get right
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to it. You are joining us from Arizona. You're familiar
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: intimately with this jurisdiction. Well, can you tell me about
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the terrain and the animal life.
• 17:07
  Speaker 10: Nancy, as her neighborhood implies, She's located at the base
• 17:11
  Speaker 10: of the Santa Catalina Mountain range, and so with that
• 17:15
  Speaker 10: wild habitat and change of elevation, it's much cooler there
• 17:18
  Speaker 10: than you would see, say in Phoenix, Arizona. Downtown Phoenix.
• 17:22
  Speaker 10: It's about twice elevation the Phoenix, so the daytime and
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: nighttime temperatures are cooler. With that change of elevation, you
• 17:29
  Speaker 10: might get some wildlife coming in from the mountains looking
• 17:32
  Speaker 10: for prey animals like mountain lions. Would not be uncommon
• 17:36
  Speaker 10: to drop into those kind of wild urban areas like
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: where she lives.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? It would not be
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: uncommon for mountain lions to be in the area.
• 17:50
  Speaker 10: Well, any wildlife is going to look for prey, and
• 17:53
  Speaker 10: with all the human activities there golf courses and so forth,
• 17:57
  Speaker 10: there's a lot of grass. You're going to have prey
• 17:59
  Speaker 10: species like how the lena deer, rabbits and other small
• 18:03
  Speaker 10: mammals and so predators like mountain lions frequently will drop
• 18:07
  Speaker 10: in from their more wild habitats to forage and then
• 18:11
  Speaker 10: high tail it out of there back into the mountains.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Gray again, thank you for being with us. I'm trying
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: to identify what, if any, perils she would face. Now,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that Nancy Guthrie, who has mobility issues,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: no dementia, no cognitive decline, I do not believe that
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: she walked out of her place on a walk about. However,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: she may be out in that terrain at someone else's
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: by someone else's hand. You stated about the temperatures, how
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: they dip at night, how cold it gets. You've told
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: me about the wildlife in the area. Well, can you
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: tell me about the terrain itself around her neighborhood.
• 19:00
  Speaker 10: Well, it's relatively flat, but it quickly climbs in elevation,
• 19:04
  Speaker 10: like any Foothills area and Mountain Lemon is found within
• 19:07
  Speaker 10: this mountain range. It's one of the top highest peaks
• 19:11
  Speaker 10: in Arizona, so you do get a rapid change of
• 19:14
  Speaker 10: elevation once you leave her neighborhood, and exposure is certainly concerned.
• 19:19
  Speaker 10: Although we've had a mild winter, temperatures right now are
• 19:22
  Speaker 10: running ten to twelve degrees fair night, higher than normal,
• 19:25
  Speaker 10: but still that's really it's wintertime. It's still rather cool
• 19:29
  Speaker 10: for someone to be out and be exposed to the
• 19:31
  Speaker 10: elements for a long period of time.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And at her age. Doctor Gray Stafford straight to Dave
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, A lot
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: is happening, and it's happening quickly. Number one, we know
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that DNA is found at the scene. That is Nancy Guthries.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: We know that DNA made police believe that a struggle
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: had ensued and she was actually kidnapped from her home.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm going to take this to Brian Fitzgibbons. Brian,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you are being told from your sources that no one
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: will confirm what type of DNA it is, regardless of
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: media outlets insisting that it's blood. What do you know yeah.
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: So.
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: Media outlets have provided information that there was blood, but
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: the Pima County Sheriff's Office, in a statement released to
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: media outlets, has not confirmed that reporting that They are
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: saying that they've connected the DNA to missus Guthrie, but
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: they will not indicate if that is indeed blood.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons. There had to be something. It just assumed
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that the media outlets are correct that it is her blood.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: There had to be something about the blood that raised
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: law enforcements suspicions, because her blood can be on a
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: knife in the kitchen, It could be on the kitchen sink,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: it could be in the bathroom. She may have had
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a noseblee, she may have cut her finger, she may
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: have stupe that's not suspicious. What would be suspicious about
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: her blood that would concern law enforcement? Brian Fitzgibbons. Is
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the amount of the blood? Is it a copious amount
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: of blood? Or the location of the blood? Is there
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: blood on the door the front door, is she is
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: being taken out of the door, or the nature of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the blood Brian Fitzgibbons. Is it a spray indicating a
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: gunshot wound? Is are there is there blood spatter indicating
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: a sharp instrument was used, and that she was bludgeoned.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So what I'm trying to get at, Brian Fitzgibbons, just
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: her blood or her DNA there in her home means nothing.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: It's gotten to be either the location, the amount, or
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the nature of the blood way in Fitsgibbons correct.
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: And you look at this crime scene as it's been
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: called by p mc County sheriff Nanos that this is
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: indeed a crime scene, that he does have evidence of
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: a forced entry, that he does have evidence at the
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: crime scene that missus Guthrie left against her will, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: you combine that with DNA found at the scene, you
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: know that paints a picture of what we're seeing.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Was there a trail of.
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: Blood leading out to the driveway, was there blood spatter?
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: Something connected the dots with those other statements that the
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: sheriff made to lead to this conclusion that that DNA
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: connected the dots on this being a potential abduction.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And again joining us doctor Gray Stafford Gray, another issue
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: is this when we hear blood, Nancy Guthries's blood caused
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: concern amongst L eight law enforcement. That doesn't I'm trying
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to look at this in a bright light, in the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: best light possible for missus Guthrie. That does not necessarily
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: mean she was blood or stabbed or shot. Maybe she
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: was struck. Maybe when you are struck in the face,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a nose bleed can be very profuse. You bleed a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: lot from any injury around your nose or your mouth.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: So that could be a more innocent explanation, not a
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: good one, but a more innocent one.
• 23:23
  Speaker 10: Yes, it certainly could. And as your other guests pointed out,
• 23:28
  Speaker 10: it's the amount, it's the proximity to the house, to
• 23:31
  Speaker 10: the driveway. Was it a trail, was it a single spot?
• 23:34
  Speaker 10: A lot of open questions still.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back over what we're
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: learning at this hour for those of you just joining us.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie is eighty four. She is the mom of
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: our friend Savannah Guthrie of NBC Today. She's five five,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: She weighs about one hundred and fifty pounds, brown hair,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes. She lives alone up skilled community. Last
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: scene Sunday evening at a church function. Last scene Saturday
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: evening at a church function. The following morning, when it's
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: time for her to go to church services. No, Nancy,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: she has mobility problems. I'm guessing someone came to give
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: her a ride and she didn't come to the door.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: The front door unlocked. We are now learning there are
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: signs of forced entry. The lights in the front of
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the home were on. We are learning and this isn't
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: helping anything. Brian fitzgibbons that there is a gravel driveway.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: We're not going to get any car prints or any
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: car evidence off gravel.
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: Explain no, you're not going to collect any And I'll
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: add to this the neighborhood itself. Not only are there
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: dirt and gravel driveways, these houses are set back quite
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: far off of the road, so the chance of catching
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: doorbell camera footage or security camera footage from neighboring houses
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: is very low. In my opinion, when you look at
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: the scenery on that street, it's very unlikely that law
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: enforcement is going to be able to get any significant
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: security footage from neighbors. Just the houses are set back
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: quite a bit off of the road. It looks to
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: be anywhere from fifty to one hundred yards, and there's
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: vegetation along the side of the road for privacy, so
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: you can see that.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: There on the map as you get down that road.
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: That vegetation is pretty tall, and I've seen some videos
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: from the road itself, So it's going to be unlikely
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: that those cameras are capturing.
• 25:56
  Speaker 8: Any crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I've got a time discrepancy. Dave mac Dave MATC,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Maybe it's not a discrepancy because
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I had a judge, an awesome judge, the oldest judge
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: in the courthouse, Luther Alberson, that would tell the jury
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: every jury trial, it is your duty to make all
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: witnesses speak the truth in puny perjury on no one.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: In other words, two statements can both be true and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: we have to figure out how to reconcile them. We
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: are learning from a neighbor that she was taken out
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: of the home short quote, shortly after being dropped off
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: after church on Saturday night. And I guarantee you there
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: is not a church pop look going on at two
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: forty five am, Dave.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: Matt To be very clear here, Annie Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: older sister, was with her mom and is the last
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: person to see her mom. It was Annie Guthrie who
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: dropped Nancy Guthrie off between ninety nine pm. That's what
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: Annie says. Something else that comes into play, Nancy, there
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: was blood drops from the entryway of the house leading
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: out to the driveway. Something else. Lights in the common
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: area I used plural lights in the common area of
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: the home were left on. The front door was unlocked,
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: but there was forced entry. And something else that was
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: said that the doorbelt camera had been removed before law
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: enforcement arrived, and it was phrased just that way. I
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: don't know what that means, but they said it was
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: removed before they arrived. So we've got a woman who
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: cannot walk fifty yards on our own, we've got blood
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: going from the entryway to the driveway, and we do
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: have a neighbor saying he thought she saw a mysterious
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: car in that neighborhood on that road near that house.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: Shortly after Annie Guthrie dropped her mom off.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac, I want you to go through the
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: sailing at points one more time, because every one of
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: them is primitive. Each thing you said proves something start
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: over all right.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: Annie Guthrie, the oldest daughter of Nancy, was out to
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: dinner with Nancy on Saturday night and dropped her off
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: at her home between nine thirty and nine forty five pm.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: That's Annie Guthrie, the last person to see Nancy Guthrie.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: We have blood evidence, a blood trail going from the
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: entryway of the home out to the driveway. We have
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: a front door that is unlocked, but police say there
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: was force entry. We have lights on in the common
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: areas of the home. We know that Nancy Guthrie suffers
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: from no type of Alzheimer's or dementia. She sharp as attack,
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: but she has physical issues so that she cannot walk
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: on her own for fifty yards. So we have a
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: neighbor that also says she saw a mysterious vehicle and
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: one she didn't recognize in the neighborhood shortly after the
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: time Nancy Guthrie was dropped off by her oldest daughter Annie,
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: or between nine thirty and nine forty five that evening
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: Saturday night. And by the way, Nancy Guthrie attended church
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: services so regularly. When she did not show up for
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: her eleven AM worship service as usual, by eleven ten,
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: members of the church were on the phone with family
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: members saying, Hey, your mom's not a church, and that's
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: why any they were over at Nancy Guthrie's home right away,
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: they spent an hour looking all inside the home and
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: around the home before they called to Lice and notified
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: them that she was gone.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I need you to add in, Dave Matt, what you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: learned about the door cam.
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: The door cam was shocking to me, Nancy because of
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: the phrasing that was used in this. Law enforcement says
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: the dork camera the doorbell camera was removed before they arrived,
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: and that was the terminology used that this camera had
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: been removed before they arrived.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Day back again, what did you say about missus guthries
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: doorbell can being removed?
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: That's what law enforcement says, that she did have one,
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: but that doorbell camera was removed before they made it
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: to her house.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, that puts a whole nother layer of planning onto this,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: and that is why I'm saying, fors Gibbons, that this
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: is not random. This is not a guy wandering around.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And yes, typically it's a man wandering around that upskill
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: neighborhood looking to steal your VCR or seeing your jewelry
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: lying out by your bed, or taking your electronics. No,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: This is not some dopp add it coming in to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: get your oxy for your knee surgery. This is targeted.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: This is not random. The mystery car allegation compared with
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: taking her doorbell cam, taking the ring cam put him up.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: First of all, that's the first sign the person's an idiot,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: because taking dismantling the doorbell cam does not stop what's
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: already been recorded right now. It's in the cloud somewhere.
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: That is correct, and Pema County Sheriff Chris Nanos has
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: indicated that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: They are making moves right.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: Now to get access to that cloud to obtain that footage.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: And as you mentioned, Nancy, all of these signs knowing
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: the location of a camera or removing it, knowing that
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: Missus Guthrie would be alone, vulnerable at this time, everything
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: points to somebody with insider knowledge of Missus Guthrie.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Now, Bryan Vius Gibbons, when you first heard Dave Matt
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: report that her doorbell cam had been taken, so all
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: we know taken before law enforcement got there, you said,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: what there was video. The fact that the door cam
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: was taken does not preclude the possibility that there was
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: a nannycam operating on the inside. Maybe in certain areas
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: of the homeway, the entrance way, the back door, there
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: could be other surveillance camera other than the ring door cam.
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: Correct, There's a very good possibility that somebody liked Missus
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: Guthrie with an association to her daughter, who's such a
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: public figure, would have multiple cameras. It would be difficult
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: to remove all of them in a quick fashion.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: So, Dave Matt, I want to circle back to you,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter. We understand that at
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: first we were told that the search of the area
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: has been called off and now they're focusing on the
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: missing person aspect, not the recovery finding her in that
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: area around the home. But now we're learning, Dave Matt,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: that law enforcement is going back and they are retracing
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: their steps and then moving outward from the home.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: What do you know, Dave, They're going to not just
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: go outward from the home, Nancy. They're actually expanding what
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: they were originally doing. When they first started the search.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: They had a ground game plan to go out and search.
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: But now as they've decided to come back, they obviously
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: have information leading them to this. They're going back and
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: retracing not just their footsteps from their original search, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: they're also widening the search, making it a little bit
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: bigger on the side. As they go out from her home,
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: they obviously have some information that has led them back
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: down this path, because if you remember, they very quickly
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: said this type of a search is done. Helicopters were gone,
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: drones were gone. Well, we got helicopters back in the air,
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: we got drones back in the area. So they're doing
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: another search, retracing their footsteps and expanding it a little bit.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: So doctor Gray Stafford, star of zoo Logic podcast, zoologist, consultant,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: author of faculty, what are they going to encounter as
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: they expand the search. Okay, you're starting her at her place,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: and you're going out out, out out out Geographically, well.
• 35:37
  Speaker 10: Nancy, a lot of people have a misconception that Arizona
• 35:40
  Speaker 10: is a very barren terrain. There's actually a lot of
• 35:43
  Speaker 10: wildlife and a lot of plant life here, much of
• 35:45
  Speaker 10: which is very hazardous to walk through because they have
• 35:48
  Speaker 10: thorns and that sort of thing. So moving on from
• 35:51
  Speaker 10: her home, there's going to be trails, They're going to
• 35:53
  Speaker 10: be dry washes where when it rains water will pass through.
• 35:59
  Speaker 10: We haven't had a out of moisture this winter, so
• 36:01
  Speaker 10: I suspect that it's going to be very dry in
• 36:03
  Speaker 10: the area, but it still may make passage difficult in
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: some of those thick rush areas, away from trails, away
• 36:10
  Speaker 10: from washes.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons. Don't you see where the facts are leading us?
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: This is not random. If this were a random burglary,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you'd have items taken from the home. We've heard nothing
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: about that. It's not a family member. We know that
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: now you have to move out someone that knew her
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: in the sense that they knew of her. They clearly
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: waited until Annie dropped her off from the evening church
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: event that Saturday night. According to the neighbor, the mystery
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: car was seen shortly after that, which means they knew
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: when she be dropped off. Either they were there or
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: they already knew. They have an intimate knowledge of her life,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that she lives alone. The doorbell cam was taken off
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: the door. A lot is happening here, indicating it's not random,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: So let's run with it. Where do you go?
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: Investigators are going to start looking Nancy at anybody who's
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: in and around that.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: House with a degree of regularity.
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: And I say this not to accuse a landscaper, a
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: pool tech, a home health aid, anybody who's a home
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: cleaner coming into that house regularly. They're going to expand
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: and look at who lives with those people, who do
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: they associate with. Who might hear that Savannah Guthrie's mother
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: lives right down the road, and know that this could
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: be a target.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: So it may not necessarily be that person.
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: That contractor that comes into the house, but it could
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: be somebody that's connected to him. And I can guarantee
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: you that investigators are going thoroughly down that list of
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: individuals that have had regular and consistent access to missus
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: Guthrie's home.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: You know, another issue on Dave mac is Savannah started
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: with me at Court TV. She has covered missing people,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: she's covered homicide, She's covered it all. She knows all
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the statistics, she knows all the facts, and this has
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: got to be excruciating for her. I'm trying to paint
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: every fact not only nefariously but with in the best
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: possible like this has got to be killing her as
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: she gets dribbles in bits of evidence, blood, doorbell cam gone,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: just dragged from her bed mystery car. It's heartbreaking, Nancy.
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: I will tell you that one of the things that
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: I noticed when we first started looking into this story
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: is how emotional you got, and how many of her
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: Savannah Guthrie's coworkers, people who have worked with her over
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: the years, how emotional they got, because she is genuinely,
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: truly liked and she is actually at her wits end.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: She's yeah, as you mentioned, she's been down this road
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: in covering stories. Savannah Guthrie is reaching out and saying,
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: please pray, pray for my mom. We need her back.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: She knows all these signs are sadly not good, and
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: yet there's still hope. And there are even signs out
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: in front of the yard somebody had made in front
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: of Nancy Guthrie's home saying we stand with you. You know,
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: Savannah was on her way to covering the Olympics. You
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: mentioned she just returned to the set of the Today
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: Show a week and a half ago after being off
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: for throat surgery than where she couldn't even speak, and
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: her voice is just now coming back. It's been a
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: tough time for her over the last couple of months.
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: She just got back on the set and now she's
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: out of course in Arizona to be there to help
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: find her mom. And I think the shocking part of
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: all of this, Nancy, is we have an eighty four
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: year old woman of sound mind, but with physical elements
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: preventing her from being able to go more than fifty yards.
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: She has medications she has to take twenty four hours
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: and the max she can go, and we're now well
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: past that, so she's without her medication. She might be hurt.
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: We've got blood going from the entryway to the driveway, Nancy.
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: At this hour, we are following up on claims there
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: could be a ransom note with the alleged kidnappers demanding
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: a specific amount of bitcoin and demanding the cryptocurrency be
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: sent to a specific Bitcoin address to add to the mix.
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: The bitcoin address has been verified as real. The election
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: note has been forwarded to the PMAC County Sheriff's Office,
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: and responding to word the possible ransom note, the PMA
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: County Sheriff's Department took to x to say they are
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: quote aware of reports circulating about possible ransom notes regarding
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: the investigation into Nancy got three. We are taking all
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: tips and lead. Seriously, anything that comes in goes directly
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: to our detectives who are coordinating.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: With the FBI.
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: A possible break in the case, but as yet unverified.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, one hundred detectives from
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office and the FBI. Now we are learning
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: a ransom note, possibly the very same ransom note sent
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: to not two, but three news outlets, that being our
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: friends at TMZ, Harvey Levin, kold A, k gun In Okay.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Also at this hour, the sheriff coming out and stating
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: there is no suspect, There is no POI person of interest.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: But wouldn't you agree everybody that they always say there
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: is no POI though isn't no suspect because once you
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: say X is a suspect, then X is shrouded in
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: constitutional protections. That said, I choose to believe the sheriff.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Dave mac joining me, Dave, what is the latest as
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: we go to air right.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: Now, Right now, Nancy, we have been told that those
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: the ransom notes going to three different locations. We're not
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: being told whether or not they are the same note
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: or if it was three different ones, but the content
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: of the note. One of them, anyway, specifically talks about
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: places inside the home of Nancy Guthrie and talks about
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: specific pieces of evidence at the crime scene that would
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: only be known by somebody that was in there at
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: that home. We also know, as you mentioned, one hundred
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: detectives are working on this case right now, plus the FBI,
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: and President Donald Trump has promised even more support to
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: get to Tucson, Arizona, to try to find Nancy Guthrie.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to look at that note one
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: more time. I'm about to bring in Jessica Finn, senior
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter with the US Sun to doctor Bethany Marshall
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: joining me. Let me see Bethany Bethany renounced like o
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: analyside the La jurisdiction author of deal Breaker. You can
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: see her now on Peacock and you can find her
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, how'd that
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: strike you? Or else? Or else? That sounds like a
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: fifth grade girl's novel, do it or else or else?
• 43:47
  Speaker 9: What?
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: Well, it's very coercive, it's very menacing and threatening. But
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: if this was a real ransom note, Nancy wouldn't this
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: have been submitted or sent to the family privately? Wouldn't
• 43:58
  Speaker 7: it have been sent earlier, like right after the mother
• 44:02
  Speaker 7: is missing, when the family is completely frantic. The fact
• 44:06
  Speaker 7: that it is sent to TMC and another news agency
• 44:11
  Speaker 7: has copycat written all over it to.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Me something about it. Brian Fitzgibbons is joining me, Director Operations,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security.
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: What is that?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigative experts. They go all
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: around the world looking for missing people. By the way,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: former marine and Iraq war veteran, Brian, there's something puero,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: something juvenile about or else? Who writes that? Do it?
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Or else? That phraseology is bugging me.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And there is something notably missing from this alleged
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: ransom note, and that is a proof of life. Right
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: for this ransom note to hold any weight, the the
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: author of the note would have to provide some kind
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: of proof of life that they did have Nancy Guthrie
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: in custody and that she was alive and well for
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: that note.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: To have any value.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Well, here's another thing, Jessica sand let me go to
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Jessica very quickly, saying, your investigator, reporter, the US son Jessica,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. Jessica, what do
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: you make of the so called ransom note being sent
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: to three outlets and claiming knowledge of what Nancy Guthrie
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: was wearing that at the time she was kidnapped and
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: describing the interior of her home as it was left
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: at the time of the abduction.
• 45:39
  Speaker 11: You know, the Sheriff's department has been so close to
• 45:41
  Speaker 11: the best as to what information they're giving out to
• 45:43
  Speaker 11: the media, and it's been really interesting to watch. They're
• 45:46
  Speaker 11: doing a great job at talking to us but not
• 45:48
  Speaker 11: saying a lot. And I think that really this random
• 45:51
  Speaker 11: note thing, we don't know if they previously had a
• 45:54
  Speaker 11: random note that they've discovered that was sent directly.
• 45:56
  Speaker 12: To the family, and that who knows.
• 45:58
  Speaker 11: Maybe these people who have abducted her are getting frustrated
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: by the Sheriff's department not acknowledging them publicly.
• 46:05
  Speaker 12: I mean, that could be a thing that's happening right now.
• 46:08
  Speaker 11: The other thing is and yes, there we have not
• 46:10
  Speaker 11: heard that there's been proof of life. However, the sheriff
• 46:13
  Speaker 11: did say today during an interview with NBC that he
• 46:17
  Speaker 11: believes Nancy is alive and so as to why he
• 46:19
  Speaker 11: is suddenly saying he believes Nancy is alive after these
• 46:23
  Speaker 11: ransom notes went to news stations around the country yesterday.
• 46:27
  Speaker 12: Doesn't there's something there?
• 46:29
  Speaker 11: There might be a there there that maybe we just
• 46:31
  Speaker 11: don't know because the sheriff again is holding these cards
• 46:34
  Speaker 11: so close to the vest despite being accessible to the media.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I want to bring in Jeffrey Gentry joining US forensic
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: certified blood stained pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene analyst and
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: death investigator, former toxicology analyst, author of forensic science applications
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: to death and crime scene investigations, author of blood stained
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: pattern Analysis, author of death investigation Information to obtain during
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: a forensic death investigation on TikTok At. Jeffrey Gentry b
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: P A blood pattern Analyst. Facebook Jeff Gentry, Bloodstained Pattern Analyst, Jeff,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Jeff. Of course, I'm
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: just a trial lawyer. But when I looked at the blood,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: let's see the blood that is outside of Nancy Guthrie's home,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: it looked to me like low velocity droplets free falling,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: which to me, to me, it looks like maybe from
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: a nosebleed. It does not look like high velocity spatter.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: It does not look like high velocity spray that you
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: would see from a gunshot wound. It does not look
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: like you don't we haven't heard anything about throwback on
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the ceiling or the walls from a bludgeoning. And jeff
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: when they first told me that her DNA, Nancy's DNA
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: was found in the home, I was like, well, of
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: course her DNA's in the home, she lives there. But
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: how does that tell you the sheriff that she was abducted?
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Er go either a copious amount of blood which means
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: she's severely injured or dead like we saw on the
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulo's Connecticut mom of five case, there was so
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: much blood in the garage they knew she was dead.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: The location such as on the ceiling right, which would
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: indicate a bludgeoning, and then a throwback or spray or
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: the high velocity a say, if there had been a
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: gunshot wound. Looking at the blood pattern that we see,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, that gives me hope that she is alive,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: because you don't have the other things that I mentioned, Jeffrey.
• 48:54
  Speaker 13: So when I look at this blood, I of course
• 48:57
  Speaker 13: any blood at a crimeantine is always concerning should take take
• 49:01
  Speaker 13: all precautions if you find blood at a crime scene,
• 49:04
  Speaker 13: it is a tremendous amount of evidence that's in the blood.
• 49:07
  Speaker 13: Not only can it tell you events that happen, but
• 49:09
  Speaker 13: then of course you have the possibility to get DNA.
• 49:11
  Speaker 13: But when I look at these blood patterns, I'm not
• 49:14
  Speaker 13: overly concerned, So you're exactly right. These are passive blood drops.
• 49:17
  Speaker 13: They are drip stains, a little bit of a drip trail,
• 49:20
  Speaker 13: and then there's a blood into blood pattern. A blood
• 49:23
  Speaker 13: into blood pattern is when blood is dripping from height
• 49:25
  Speaker 13: into a blood source and it creates that neat little
• 49:28
  Speaker 13: pattern of drip stains with the little satellite spatter around it.
• 49:33
  Speaker 13: So this would indicate one that this is not a
• 49:35
  Speaker 13: major injury. Somebody of that age can get skin tears
• 49:40
  Speaker 13: very easily in their arms on their hands, and those
• 49:43
  Speaker 13: are going.
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: To bleed quite a bit.
• 49:45
  Speaker 13: But it also indicates that this person is upright. They
• 49:48
  Speaker 13: are stationary for some period of time. But then there's
• 49:51
  Speaker 13: also movement as well with the drip trail. So nothing
• 49:54
  Speaker 13: that I'm seeing would indicate that one this person has
• 49:57
  Speaker 13: a traumatic injury like a gunshot or a stab wound
• 50:01
  Speaker 13: like projected blood patterns you mentioned cast off from a weapon.
• 50:05
  Speaker 13: You don't see impact spatter. These are all large volume
• 50:08
  Speaker 13: stains that are going straight down, indicating that that person
• 50:10
  Speaker 13: was either walking or stationary.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: But they're upgrade.
• 50:13
  Speaker 13: The other thing that I look for is why isn't
• 50:16
  Speaker 13: there blood on the door knob?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Hold on? Hold on? You got me drinking out of
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the fire hydrant. That's a lot. Okay, I like for
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: you to just go, but I've got to dissect what
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: you said. I hope I didn't interrupt your train of
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: thought and you know that you were going to say.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: And second, but could you again slow down and state
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: what you just said, because I find it extremely compelling.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: And yes, of course blood at a crime scene is
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: always bad, it's not good. But given that, would you
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: start again with the passive blood spots? The drip stains?
• 50:57
  Speaker 13: Absolutely, So what we're looking at I'm looking at the
• 50:59
  Speaker 13: photo right now, there is a drip trail, So those
• 51:03
  Speaker 13: are individual circular bloodstains. It obviously fell from height, so
• 51:08
  Speaker 13: this person is upright. There's nothing at all to indicate
• 51:12
  Speaker 13: that they were dragged. There's nothing that's all to indicate
• 51:14
  Speaker 13: that they were on the ground and bleeding. You don't
• 51:16
  Speaker 13: see any blood pools, so that gives me hope that
• 51:19
  Speaker 13: this person is alive. The drip stains and the blood
• 51:23
  Speaker 13: and the blood patterns. That's one of the most common
• 51:25
  Speaker 13: patterns you see at any scene, just because usually somebody's upright,
• 51:30
  Speaker 13: they realize that they're bleeding, and they're walking around, either
• 51:33
  Speaker 13: trying to get help or going from one point to another.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, look at the spot right there, Jeffrey.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I'm following up on what you said. You could almost
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: see what would be her footsteps based on what you're saying.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: One by the door, Matt on square two. See it
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: starts on square two, square one, starting at the door
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: step step step step. I mean, I'm reading into but
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: that's all we can do right now.
• 52:01
  Speaker 13: That's exactly what you would expect if somebody has, say
• 52:05
  Speaker 13: a minor injury, and they're kind of standing in the
• 52:07
  Speaker 13: same spot, kind of moving around. But then a lot
• 52:11
  Speaker 13: of times people are stepping in their own blood or
• 52:13
  Speaker 13: the suspect is stepping in their blood. So I hope
• 52:15
  Speaker 13: the investigators are picking up on that and looking for
• 52:19
  Speaker 13: footwear impressions or what were the suspects possibly wearing. The
• 52:23
  Speaker 13: good thing about her possibly bleeding too is the fact
• 52:27
  Speaker 13: that her blood is not going to only be at
• 52:29
  Speaker 13: this scene, but whatever vehicle she was taken in, the
• 52:32
  Speaker 13: blood's going to be in that vehicle as well. Because
• 52:34
  Speaker 13: a blood pattern like this, considering that she might be
• 52:37
  Speaker 13: taking antid coagulant medications, it's not going to stop bleeding
• 52:40
  Speaker 13: right away. It's going to continue to bleed. And so
• 52:42
  Speaker 13: that gives you the possibility of a forensic link from
• 52:45
  Speaker 13: the crime scene to the suspect vehicle. But again, I
• 52:49
  Speaker 13: don't see anything here that stands out is overly concerning
• 52:54
  Speaker 13: regarding debt. There's no blood patterns that would suggest a
• 52:58
  Speaker 13: major violent event happened and that this person is obviously deceased.
• 53:02
  Speaker 13: I don't see that at all.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Everything you just said is music to my ears. Jeffrey
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Gentry breaking it down in an amazing way. Look, she's
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: eighty four, she's on med she's got a heart problem,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: she's got a pascemaker, she's bleeding. It's not good. I
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: know it's not good, but I'm looking for anything. I'm
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: looking for anything because I care about Savannah. I want
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: there to be a good outcome. But we have to
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: look at the facts as we know them. Minor injury
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: walking upright, no blood pools, she's not on the ground, okay,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: nothing to indicate a traumatic injury such as a gunshot wound,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: no cast off. Okay, what more? And I'd like to
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: see the blood again. You were about to say, and second?
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: What was second? Was it the vehicle or is there
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: something else?
• 54:06
  Speaker 13: Well, one of the other one of the other things
• 54:07
  Speaker 13: that I look for is not only where did bleeding
• 54:10
  Speaker 13: begin and where did it end? Where did the person
• 54:12
  Speaker 13: start out? Where did they travel to? But I don't
• 54:15
  Speaker 13: see any blood on the doorframe. I don't see any
• 54:18
  Speaker 13: blood on the doorknob. It's a black surface on the
• 54:21
  Speaker 13: screen door. But I don't see anything that would suggests
• 54:24
  Speaker 13: that she was bleeding and trying to get back inside
• 54:28
  Speaker 13: of her house. So you got to wonder where did
• 54:30
  Speaker 13: this begin and where did it end? Like I mentioned,
• 54:33
  Speaker 13: there's no major blood pools, there's no transfer patterns on
• 54:36
  Speaker 13: the ground. So we don't think that she was dragged
• 54:39
  Speaker 13: away from her home. We don't think that she crawled
• 54:41
  Speaker 13: away from her home. There's only a couple possibilities. Either
• 54:45
  Speaker 13: she walked away on her own and didn't have any
• 54:47
  Speaker 13: major injuries, or she was carried away from her home.
• 54:49
  Speaker 13: But then you got a wonder too, where did this
• 54:52
  Speaker 13: blood trail end? Was there any blood in the driveway?
• 54:54
  Speaker 13: How far did it expend? So I've got I mean, unfortunately,
• 54:58
  Speaker 13: it does give you a lot of an But then
• 55:00
  Speaker 13: I've got a lot of questions too, So i would
• 55:03
  Speaker 13: love to be out there looking round at the scene.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Hold on, before you start with those questions, can I
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: see the closing of the door again, because we were told,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac that there was signs of forced entry, Kash,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I wish we could zeem in on that forced entry,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: but that the door was unlocked, that tells me maybe
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: they came fourth. Wait, am I seeing forced entry right
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: there on the right? No, I'm not sure that I am.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: They Look at all those locks. There's a heavy duty
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: it looks like iron screen door with double locks on it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe the forced entry was at another entrance or window,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and then they walked out this way. That's pretty bold
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: to walk out of the front door. Am I seeing
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the front door? Dave Mac? I think I am is
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: at the front door to her home.
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: It is, And the thing is, Nancy, You've got to
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: realize that we've been told that missus Gusthrie cannot fifty
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: yards without assistance, so she's not mobile, which means whoever
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: is taking her out of the house would have to
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: be helping her, So they wouldn't be able to go
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: crawling out a window out the way they came in.
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: They would pretty much be left with if they're taking
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: her out to go out the biggest pathway, which is
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: going to be the front door. And as you mentioned
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: those blood patterns, if she's got a bloody nose or
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: something along those lines, as they're taking her out, they're
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: leading her or I say they because you're kind of
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: talking to people having to help carry her out and
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: lead her down the clearest path possible. So that pretty
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: much makes that a real possibility.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with my mom, unless she's using her walker, it
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: is really hard for me to I can do it,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: but it's really hard to get her up and walk
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: her by myself. And as Jeffrey Gentry is saying, we
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: don't see any indication of the blood that she at
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: any point was being dragged along. A lot happening, guys,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: and I know we keep going back to the one
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: photo over and over, but that is the way you
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: prove a case, You take one piece of evidence, it
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: could be this writing pin right here, and you think
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and you think and you examine until you squeeze every
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: bit of information out of that one thing that you can.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: And did you hear, Jeffrey Gentry analyze this blood in
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: a way that I have not heard that? Keep thinking, Jeffrey,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: keep thinking and percolating to Brian Fitzgibbons, I want to
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: talk to you about practicalities, practicalities if this is a ransom. Oh,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and that reminds me I'm going to circle back Jessica
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: and Dave about do we believe this bitcoin account is real?
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Because I've heard that it has been authenticated doesn't mean
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the ransom notes real. They like, somebody could get my
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: checking number. They can figure it out right or come
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: up with a number, But that doesn't mean I'm part
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: of a ransom or a kidnap. So that could be
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: a legitimate, authenticated Bitcoin number, account number and still not
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: be connected to the Guthries. But to you, Bryan Fitzgibbons,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: you've done this one hundred times. So you ransom someone,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: don't you believe at some juncture you're gonna have to
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: show proof of life. I mean, why killer, don't you
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: think at some point they're gonna have to if they
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: want that money, they're gonna have show proof of life.
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: Absolutely necessary, right, because that's the key to this whole thing.
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: If this is a kidnapp for ransom case, they will
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: want to make it very clear to the Guthrie family
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: that Nancy is alive and well prior to them sending
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: any type of ransom money. They would obviously demand that.
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: So you know that being absent from this ransom note
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: really stuck out to me because you know, you're not
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: going to risk communicating too many times without providing it
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: and potentially exposing your identity.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: What do you make of sending it to three different
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: outlets k O L D T m Z and K
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: GUN K g U N What do you make of
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: three different outlets?
• 59:23
  Speaker 14: Fitz gibbons knee jerk reaction to this Nancy is that
• 59:27
  Speaker 14: this is either a hoaxter who's trying to make a
• 59:30
  Speaker 14: quick dollar off of this horrible scenario, or second, if
• 59:36
  Speaker 14: it is actually tied to the case, that there's some
• 59:39
  Speaker 14: kind of distraction taking place that they're looking up looking
• 59:43
  Speaker 14: to tie up resources of lar enforce.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, let me get you to weigh in on
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: thought that was actually you brought it up as well.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: The blood, the blood conceivably in the car, if she
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: is bleeding from the nose, how could they possibly erase
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: eradicate the blood from inside the vehicle. And yes, there
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: had to be a vehicle. And whoever did this is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: brazen because they took her out the front door, right
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: there in her own neighborhood. So tell me about the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: possibility of blood being in the car, Jeffrey Gentry.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 13: So if this is in fact her blood, and I
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 13: haven't seen anything in the news that would say that
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 13: they did DNA testing already and proved that this was
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 13: her blood outside of the house, there's always, I mean,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 13: I guess the possibility that it's a stage crime scene too.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 13: Whenever I teach classes, I use my own blood and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 13: I'll make a pattern exactly like that to demonstrate an
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 13: event where somebody's standing up right and bleeding. So there's
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 13: always that possibility. So hopefully they've already done the DNA
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 13: testing and have confirmed that that is in fact her blood.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 13: But if she's actively bleeding either from the nose, and
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 13: my thought is just with her being a little bit older,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 13: rather fragile, that she might have skin tears on her arms.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 13: I would suspect that when they do find her that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 13: she's going to have some kind of skin tears on
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 13: her arms that created these blood patterns arms or hands,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 13: because elderly people their skin is thin. But if she's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 13: actively bleeding, she is going to keep bleeding. It's not
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 13: going to stop, and so she's going to bleed inside
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 13: of the suspect vehicle, either on door handles or inside
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 13: on the seats, and that's not really easy to get
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 13: rid of. I'm not going to tell everybody exactly how
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 13: to get rid of blood, but I could definitely give
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 13: you some ideas. But there should be some evidence of
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 13: clean up if they did try to get rid of it,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 13: either bleach or other chemicals. And nine out of ten times,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 13: if people suspects are willing to leave behind blood at
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 13: a crime scene, they're not going to do a very
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 13: good job cleaning up a car. So that leaves me
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 13: hope that there is going to be that forensic link
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 13: between her residence and the suspect vehicle.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 8: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Back to Jessica Finn joining a senior investigative reporter us Son,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: What have you learned about the time line? At first
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: we were told to forty five am. Now we're thinking
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: more about two am. A neighbor states that he went
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: by the home at six forty five am and nothing
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: was happening, suggesting that she was still there. I think
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: it says just the opposite that it was all over.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: She had already been taken by six forty five am.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: What are we learning, if anything, from the neighbors.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 11: Well, so one of the neighbors, a couple of the neighbors.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 11: Now I've seen we have our own reporter on the
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 11: ground in Arizona at the US Sun, and then I've
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 11: seen other reports of other neighbors who have actually reported
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 11: that there were suspicious activity on their own property within
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 11: like several blocks of Nancy's home, that people that there
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 11: was an individual that had been snooping around and looked suspicious.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 11: The neighbor, one of the neighbors that we spoke to,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 11: had actually called the cops about this incident back when
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 11: it happened two months ago. There was another incident in
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 11: the last couple of weeks with another neighbor that was
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 11: about ten minutes away from Nancy who reported a similar incident,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 11: and so the and then we have the neighbor that's
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 11: directly across the street who said, when I had emerged
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 11: from my home at six forty five am on Sunday morning,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 11: I didn't see anything. So you know, again there's her
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 11: car was left behind, her wallet, her keys, her phone.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 11: You wouldn't notice if Nancy was there or not at
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 11: six forty five in the morning, if she had already
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 11: been taken, because everything was still left as is besides
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 11: Nancy herself. You know, from what we know, she was
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 11: dropped off at nine forty five pm on Saturday night.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 11: And that drop off what came after she had dinner
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 11: at Savannah's sister Anne Annie's house and Annie's husband Tomaso.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 11: They had dinner to gain other and then Tamaso drove
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 11: Nancy Gothrie back to her home and he watched her
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 11: go in the door. But of course, by the next
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 11: day she was supposed to show up at church, and
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 11: around eleven am of one of her fellow parishioners called
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 11: the cops to called the family first to let the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 11: family know she wasn't there, and then the family went
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 11: to go check on the house. Of course, the cops recalled,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 11: that's kind of the general timeline that we're working with.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I noticed that you just said that the son in
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: law dropped her off, not the daughter, and that he
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: waited for her to get into the home before he left.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 12: Correct, Yeah, it is, it is.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 11: It's be confirmed that he was the last guy to see.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Her, okay, and they all had dinner together before that.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 12: That is correct?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. At this hour, we are learning that multiple experts
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: are pushing a multiple abductor theory. Jessica, Why, Well.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 11: For a number of reasons, she's not mobile, like like
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 11: we've said earlier in the broadcast, she can't get around
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 11: on her own, so it would take some effort to
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 11: actually physically get her out of the house. And not
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 11: in the sense that it would take two people to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 11: carry her, but you need like somebody to escort her out,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 11: You need the waiting car, you need to get her
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 11: in the car fairly quickly. And so there's the idea
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 11: that you know, really this is at least a two
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 11: man job. There's also been some theories that there possibly
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 11: was like a junior an abductor or kidnapper involved who
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 11: may have been scoping out the property in the days
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 11: and weeks before this actually all went down.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 12: But it does seem that at.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 11: Least the very night of likely requires a couple of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 11: people to get her out of the house and quietly
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 11: gag her if needed, and get her into the car
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 11: and then swiftly drive away.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Dave mac joining us some crime stories, Dave, what can
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: you tell me? Can you expound upon the sidings of
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: a quote suspicious person?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: Actually, Nancy, Yeah, they're actually more than one. Okay. A
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: suspicious man was actually seen lurking in someone's yard a
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, and he wasn't just like a phantom.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: It was enough that he actually set off a motion
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 5: detecting light that awoke the homeowner. This was about ten
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: minutes away from Nancy Guthrie's home. You know, as we've mentioned,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: it is a neighborhood, but the homes are not bright
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: pressed up against one another. There is a little distance
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: between them. This is an elderly man and he says
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: he caught the guy in his yard after the motion
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: sensor went off and the flood light switches on. The
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: light spooke the guy and the fellow left away, but
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: that's not the only one, Nancy. That was several weeks ago.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: But now we find out that there was a suspicious, tall,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: strange man reportedly lurking in a yard near Nancy Guthrie's
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: residence about thirty minutes before police arrived. Thirty minutes before
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: police arrived, a strange man in the neighborhood. All I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: could think of was Cobert or going back the next morning.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: So we've got at least two different individuals.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Degree I disagree, and I'll tell you why, because somebody had
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: to be with Nancy Guthrie. Sure, unless there's more than
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: one person involved, I don't think that that well, But
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Coburger did go back. Coburger
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: did go back.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: I think you're talking about having more than one person
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: getting around. And again this goes back to her lack
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: of mobility, her size, medium build, and eighty four years old.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: She's not going to be moving fast. You're going to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: have to have help to come out of that house.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: And you talk about you're taking care with your mother
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 5: to get her moved around, and these are people that
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: don't care, and it's not going to be easy. So
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: I'm thinking there had to be at least two, so
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: there might be somebody sitting with her wherever they are,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: while the other one's back there watching what's happening.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: To Bethany Marshall joining us a renown psycho analyst doctor
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: to beathet. It's my experience when you bring somebody else
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: in on your crime, at some point somebody's going to talk,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: or the wife of the purp knows about it, or
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: the girlfriend, or just starting to get too big and
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: too many people know about it. What do you think?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 7: That's what I've been thinking. I share your thoughts about that.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 7: I was thinking, who is sitting at home watching their
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 7: TV or reading the news online and thinking, hmmm, my
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 7: husband left at midnight. I wonder where he went. There's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 7: somebody out there who knows something. Nancy. In terms of.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 12: These blood drops, you know.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 7: She had a pacemaker, which tells me she was also
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 7: on blood the thinners, right, because you typically prescribe that
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 7: to people about pacemakers, and that the life saving medication
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 7: may in fact be her blood thinner, right, so that
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 7: without that there's a chance of her heart throwing off
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 7: plot or having a stroke or something like that. Another
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 7: question is if the blood drops and right there on
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 7: the doorstep, how did they get her all the way
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 7: out to wherever the car was. Did they have a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 7: wheelchair waiting for her, which in which case they know
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 7: a lot about her and her health issues. Okay, so
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 7: that's very important to me. And was there blood in
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 7: her bed? I mean, people who are in blood dinners
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 7: often they just bleed during the night without even realizing it.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 7: And then also if the blood stopped on the doorstep,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 7: did somebody have a cloth or a bandage or something
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 7: waiting for her to stop the blood drops? And just
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 7: one of their quick thought Nancy, you know, I'm sure
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 7: NBC is combing through all of Savannah Guthrie's emails. Did
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 7: she did she cover a story that made somebody angry
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 7: or pissed off or threatened? Was there somebody stalking her
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 7: or threatening sending threatening emails? I mean you said the
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 7: vengeful nature of the random of the ransom note or else?
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 7: Is that reflected in language of emails that have been
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 7: sent her? Because she is a well known figure and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 7: they have a lot of security at NBC, And that's
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 7: an angle that I think nobody's talking about. It would
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 7: be really interesting to know more.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, At the risk of poo pooing doctor beth Andy
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Marshall focused on doctor I'm certainly not a renounce psychoanalyst,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: but that sounds like a fifth grade girl's mystery novel
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: that Savannah covered a story and somebody read the story
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: or heard the story and got so mad that they went, oh,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to track down her mom on the other
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: side of the country and kidnap her and ask for money.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 7: Hey, Nancy, I've had hate and threatening emails after being
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 7: on yours show.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: You know, thank you.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 7: People read all kinds of meanings into what they hear
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 7: public figures say. But also could it have incited somebody
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 7: into thinking about how to get back at Savannah or
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 7: put our front and center of some disgruntled person's life.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 7: I think that's something that should be explored.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I can't poopoo anything because who would have
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: thought that a PhD criminology student teacher would target four
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: random people he's never met and murder them in the
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: middle of the night. No sex attack, no robbery. It's
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: almost unheard of. So I really don't have a leg
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: to stand on to poo poo anything at this Junctor
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: speaking of trolls, Jessica Finn joining us us Son. What
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: about it. I've heard that there are evil trolls attacking
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Savannah at a time like this.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 11: Yeah, incredibly, I guess not incredibly.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 12: It is the world that we live in, right.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 11: There have been several notes since to Savannah through NBC basically,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 11: you know, claiming that they did this, and all sorts
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 11: of horrible allegations and threats to her. It's really kind
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 11: of thrown her name aggressively into the national lexicon in
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 11: a way that has not been you know, in a
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 11: way that her name has not been.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 12: Out there before.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 11: And unfortunately, when you're a victim of a crime, as
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 11: you know, Nancy, you've become victimized even further often as
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 11: a case like this unwind.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: One of the.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 11: Stories that I did earlier this week at the Sun,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 11: actually to Bethany's point, is how NBC has stepped up
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 11: security in and around thirty rock as a result of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 11: this case. That people on air, that the on air
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 11: talent are very spooked over this whole situation.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 12: They're all very concerned for their own.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 11: Families and their own lives, and NBC has stepped up
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 11: security around thirty Rocky. They've also had additional NYPD patrols
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 11: going on in the area. So this has had a
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 11: real chilling and ripple effect throughout the NBC family.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: Gibbs, how hard is it to track bitcoin?
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 6: You know, what we learned recently is that this Bitcoin
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 6: account associated with the ransom note is indeed an authentic account. Now,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 6: when it comes to tracking the ownership of that account,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: that is certainly going to be a more difficult task.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Really, I thought it would be more like an IP
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: address on a computer.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: This could be a lot more complicated than that.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Nancy, Well, okay, what do you mean by that. I'm
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: just a lawyer. What are you talking about? Why is
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: it hard to track a bitcoin account? Somebody's got to
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: create it, it's got to be listed back to somewhere,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: it's got to be attached to Is it attached to
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: a bank or no.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: It's going to be possible. But bitcoin inherently has certain
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: amounts of privacy, a lot more than a standard bank
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: account or an IP address would have. So you would
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: have to assume.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: That, again, if this is a an authentic ransom demand,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 6: that the author of that ransom note has gone to
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 6: great lengths to secure that Bitcoin account. That could not
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: be traced back to them, and that is certainly possible.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Aren't they id by alpha numeric wallet addresses and not names?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 6: That is correct, So you're not going to have an
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 6: individual's name and street address associated with it like you would.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: You know, if they said, you know, wire.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 6: Money to this routing number in this checking account number,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 6: you know, that would be easily traced and verified.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this. You may think it's
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: hard to try bitcoin, and maybe it is, but what
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: are they going to let it sit there forever? At
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: some point they're going to move it. And you want
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: to tell me the Feds aren't going to be up
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: their tailpipes three inches when they try to move that
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: to another account, to another account, to another account. I mean, Washington, DC,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: the the FBI, They're crawling with people that are digital experts.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: This is their super Bowl. Just please put money in
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: that bitcoin account and see what happens. Although I find
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: it interesting, I think doctor Bethany brought it up that
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: it was sent to three news outlets tmz KO l
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: D and k gun K g u N. Why then,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: why not? Why not the family? Okay, hold on just
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: a second, I want to make sure we've covered everything.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: The story that's floating around about an elite group from
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Border Patrol entering into the fray Dave mac that's been discredited, correct.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 5: Not just discredited. They were brought in for the first
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 5: day of searching in the area around the home, but
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 5: they were sent home Monday night.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: Right now, I understand that the search is back on drones, helicopters,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: foot searches had been called off for a period of
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: time and they have been renewed. That gives me hope.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: That gives me hope that le law enforcement believes that
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: they can find something through those searches. If you know
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: or think you know anything about the disappearance of this
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: beautiful Grandma, Nancy Guthrie, please dial five two zero three
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: five one four nine hundred repeat five two zero three
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: five one four nine hundred before I sign off. Jeffrey Gentry,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: I gave you a minute to think through what you're hearing,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: any other analysis of the scene or the.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 13: Blood any I can think it's crazy that anybody would
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 13: think that they'd get away with this, Like you said,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 13: I mean, with the FBI hundreds of detectives working on it,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 13: how do they possibly think that this is a crime
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 13: that they can get away with. So I do definitely
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 13: believe that there is good hope that she's still alive,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 13: especially considering the patterns, the circumstances, and hopefully they find
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 13: her and quickly and the rest of people that are involved.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I agree again tipline five two zero three, five one four,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: nine hundred, and not only that, we are seeking help
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: from a higher source, and we ask that you join
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: the Guthrie family and the Crime Stories family in prayers
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie to the loving
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: arms of her daughter, Savannah. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's mother missing, Day five. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: with us in the last hours. A presser from local
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: law enforcement. This following literally a heart breaking plea from Savannah,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: her sister Annie, and brother Cameron, all three looking exhausted,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: bone weary. We'll play that back for you in full
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: in just a moment, but first to the latest, I
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: want you to hear what the sheriff said in the
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: last hours.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: I'll go over it with you.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 4: You can see it on the board there.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: But at about five thirty two pm, these are approximate times.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: Five thirty two PM, Nancy travels to her local family's
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: home for dinner and playing games with.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: The family, just visiting.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: At nine eight pm, which is very consistent to what
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: we were told by the family, that Nancy was dropped
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: off at home, and we know that because we have
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: a garage door open at approximately I can't stress that
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: enough at approximately ninety eight pm, at nine fifty pm,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: that garage door closes because that time we assume that
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: Nancy's home and probably going to bed. Sunday morning, early
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: morning at one seven am, the door doorbail camera disconnects.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: At twelve am.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: Software detects a person on a camera, but there's no
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: video available. They had no subscription and therefore it would
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: rewrite itself kind of. It just kind of loops right
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: and covers up. That's what our analysis teams have told us.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: We're not done with that. We'll do all we can,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: but that's what it says. So the detects a person
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: on camera. Could that be an animal? I imagine that's possible.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: We don't know that. We just have no video or
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: we're not giving up on that. Two twenty eight, Nancy's
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: pacemaker app shows that it was a disconnect from the phone,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: and at eleven fifty six am, the family checks on Nancy,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: discovers her missing, and at twelve o three pm nine
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: to one one is called in to the pen County
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: Chef's department.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: What are we learning? Nine forty eight The garage door opens,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: nine point fifty, it closes, door cam disconnects one forty seven,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: so nine ten, eleven twelve one four hours later to twelve.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: I don't see how they can say this is a coincidence.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: This is an animal. The door cam disconnects at one
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: forty seven two twelve. Software detects a person on camera,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have to have Fitzgibbons explain what he's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: saying about looping and covering it up to twenty eight wow.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Sixteen minutes later, her pacemaker disconnects from the phone, which
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: means simply, it goes twenty thirty feet away from her iPhone,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: which was left there in the home. Doesn't mean it
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: quit working. It means it got away from the phone.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: The phone can't trace it anymore. Eleven fifty six family
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: checks on Nancy. Twelve three it's on joining me tonight,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: an All Star panel to make sense of what we
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: are learning now we just got that timeline so much
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: as being made of is one of the family a suspect?
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: And we heard the share of Today's state. We don't
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: have a suspect, we don't have a person of interest.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: Yet everyone is under suspicion. That's what they always say.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: Everybody is under suspicion. But what would it take Bethany
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Marshall for family members to sit with her that evening,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: be with her and pretend nothing was going to happen,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: all the while plotting and planning her kidnap and faking it.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: I just did you see Savannah Guthrie, sister Annie and
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: brother Cameron. They did not look like any of them
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: were faking it. I know Savannah, she's not faking it.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: I get a deluge of people online suggesting she is
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: somehow part of this. That's just ridiculous. No, that did
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: not happen. But look at their demeanors, Doctor Beth and
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: I let's just clear that up right now.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 7: Nancy's children are not responsible for this. They are not.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 7: I mean, I look at their demeanor, their distraught, their concerned.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 7: This is their mother. We don't have any history to
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 7: suggest that they had an antagonistic relationship with their mother.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 7: They she was invited into the home on a Saturday
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 7: night to play games and hang out with the family.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 7: This is a beloved mother and grandmother. Now what we
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 7: don't know, and I keep waiting for this, is we
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 7: don't know about givers, gardeners, people who are coming in
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 7: and out of her life, bankers, financial people. There's somebody
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 7: in her inner circle, somebody should confides in, maybe outside
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 7: of her, her the sibling group of her children, who
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 7: might know something about somebody who is pestering her, bothering her,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 7: somebody she has a suspicion about.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 12: And that's what.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 7: I'm really, really so curious about. And none of that
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 7: has come out so far.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Again, I want to look at Savannah, Annie
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: and Cameron last night. Again, I am getting deludes with
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: people suggesting that they are somehow part of their own
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: mother's disappearance. They say, look at Annie, she's not moving,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: she's not saying anything. Well, clearly, they designated Savannah to speak,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: that's what she does for a living. Their numb. I've
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: got to defend them, Dr Bethany.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 8: Their numb.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: They're exhausted, that's why they're not lively and chattering in
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: the background.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 7: I'm going to use a clinical term. They're dissociated. We
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 7: dissociate when the reality is unbearable. This is unbearable. Their
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 7: dear mother is gone. There is blood on the front doorstep.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 7: They can't even contemplate Nancy. You've talked about your mother.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 7: If something happened to her, you wouldn't You would panic,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 7: But then you would become numb too, because the possibilities
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 7: are so overwhelming. They don't know if their mother is
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 7: being if she's alive, if she's dead. They can't even
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 7: feel Nancy. That's what we're seeing.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I was looking very you said, I was
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: looking very carefully at that door photo, the photo of
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: the front door and the step way, the driveway walkway
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: where there's blood. If you look carefully to the right
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: of that double lock, there is a red smudge and
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: it's in close proximity to the blood on the ground
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: on the walkway. Is that Nancy's blood? Now we've been
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: told and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave mac that
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: there was no blood on the interior of the home
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: that they've been able to identify. Yet, I would I.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: Would make sure you say yet. They haven't said that
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: it's been there yet, but they did identify the blood
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: right there at the entryway as being Nancy.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: Well, if there's blood on the inside, then why haven't
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: they identified that either? And you know another thing joining
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: US guys Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA Nationwide Security for a living,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: he leads a team of investigators that go worldwide finding
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: missing people. You can get blood DNA analysis back overnight,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: almost immediately. I don't know what they're talking about that
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: they're waiting on samples. Maybe they've gotten unidentified DNA and
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get a sample from that that would
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: take longer.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that there's probably some touch DNA from
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 6: the inside that they're looking to analyze. And with now
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 6: the FBI announcing that they're jointly on this case, the
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 6: ability to process these things much faster.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: Is going to come into play.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 6: So, you know, I think in the coming days we're
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 6: going to learn a lot more about the.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 8: Pane crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: So the mom is dropped off early in the evening,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: around nine forty eight. That's when the garage door has
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: activity nine fifty The garage door closes with me as
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: I mentioned an all star panel Dave Matt Crime Stories
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter on this case from the very beginning. Brian Fitzgibbons,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I just introduced you to him USPA Nationwide Security and
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: a renounced psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: She's the author of deal Breakers. You can see her
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: starring on Peacock now and find her at doctor Bethanymarshall
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: dot com. We're talking about the timeline. Looking at the timeline,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: one forty seven a m. The doorbell disconnects, one seven
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: a m. The door cam, doorbell cam disconnects, two twelve am.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Software detects a person on camera, but see the camera
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: part of that has been disconnected. So while the software
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: is picking up movement, the cam isn't seeing it. That's
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: how I understand it. But then Brian Fitzgibbons, he launches
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: into some discussion that it could have been an animal.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: My question is why would the doorcam disconnect. I mean,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: look in the picture, there's just a silver circle where
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: the doorcam used to be, right, It's that silver thing
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: right there, that's where the doorcam used to be it
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: fit right there, it's gone. Now what is he trying
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: to say? What is he saying? Brian?
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 6: The the the animal comment was perplexing. I believe what
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 6: the sheriff is saying is that at one seven that
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 6: doorbell camera was removed from its base so that there
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 6: was some digital log in.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: The camera to that effect.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 6: And now at two twelve you have to understand, and
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 6: nest camera has three modes home, away, and off, and
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 6: in the home mode it will still register seeing a
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 6: person and that.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 4: Will log that data in a log.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 6: That it saw a person, but it won't be recording
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 6: well in home mode, So you know, was the camera
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 6: in home mode?
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 4: It just it log that event. That's what it seems
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: to be to me.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 6: I don't think that these cameras are going to mistake
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: a person for an animal. Most of the most of
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 6: the cameras nowadays will accurately record, you know, if they
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 6: see a dog or a deer walk by it.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 4: It will record an animal over a person.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: I've been saying, Ringmel, it's a nest. You're you're right, Brian,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: Now tell me how that works again. And I want
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: to make what you say and what he said both
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: be true. I want you to reconcile what he said,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: decipher it, and tell me what happened.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 6: What it sounds like to me, Nancy, is that that
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 6: camera was popped off from the inside of the house
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 6: so it didn't register seeing anybody, and then when it
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 6: was moved at two.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: Twelve, it actually sees a person.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 6: So I think what we can see, what we can
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 6: glean from this timeline is the doorbell camera was disconnected
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 6: off the base. Twenty five minutes later, that camera is
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 6: moved and it's pointing in the direction that it actually
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 6: registers contact with a person.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: The doorbell camera, it was removed. We know that, but
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: we're not confirming that any cameras were smashed or destroyed
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: around the house.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Dave mac speaking of cameras quote around
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: the house, is that you're understanding there were granny cams,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: as I call the ones we have from a mom.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: You know, there's nanny cams, I call them granny cams.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: Were there granny cams in Missus Guthrie's home.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 5: That is what has been reported that there were granny cams,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 5: as you say, in the home that were there and
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 5: covering certain areas of the home so that if Missus
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 5: Guthrie were to fall down or becoming capacitated, they would
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 5: be they being the family or whoever had access, which
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 5: we're told a very small group of people had access
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: to the cameras and they could actually see what was
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 5: taking place inside the home while she was alone. We've
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 5: pointed this out. Eighty four years old, great mental health. Physically,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 5: she's got some issues walking around, so it makes sense
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: that they would have cameras inside the house. Interesting that
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: the sheriff wasn't asked a question about the cameras inside
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: the home. He volunteered that information, saying that they didn't
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 5: have smashed. His comment was, I don't know where you're
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 5: getting that information. Smashed cameras inside that home would indicate
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 5: somebody was in there that a knew the cameras were,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: knew where they were placed, and also knew where they
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 5: were angled to pick up movement of Missus Guthrie inside
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: the home, and that individual or people or persons who's
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 5: been able to avoid showing up on those camera angles
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: so they wouldn't be picked up.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: I believe his words were to the effect, no cameras
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: inside the house were destroyed, which tells me that there
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: are cameras inside the house. I mean, am I reading
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: that incorrectly? Guys?
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: No, you're absolutely right.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 6: That's exactly what we learned from that statement from the sheriff,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 6: that there are cameras inside the house. He has also,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 6: unfortunately indicated that they don't seem to have any of
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 6: the footage from those cameras.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 4: He mentioned a couple of things.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: He said something Brian about looping and covering itself, looping
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: over and covering up images of someone. What is he saying?
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah that I was trying to figure out Nancy, and
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 6: my best crack at that is basically, maybe it was
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 6: the mode that this camera was set in, that it
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 6: was not set to record, but it was logging events,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 6: and that they're working with Nest and Google to try
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 6: to extract that.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: Another question I have is at two twelve am, software
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: detects movement on the camera, but they Nest has already
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: been disconnected. So I'm trying to reconcile that. Does that
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: mean it picks that movement but it can no longer
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: record an image or it doesn't record an image only movement.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Could you break it down in simple terms.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 6: Brian, Yeah, to explain this simply, these doorbell camera cameras
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 6: will have battery power to them. Okay, so you could
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: disconnect it from that base. Then an event gets logged,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 6: you know, within its software, and that now you've moved it,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 6: but it's not seeing any person.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 4: As it's moving.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 6: When you turn that, you know, twenty five minutes later,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 6: somebody picks it up and it's pointing towards a person.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 6: Now it's logging that that event again, that it saw
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 6: the person.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: So it logs it. But is there an image because
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: he's saying it loops over? Did it ever record an image?
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: What I'm getting at. If it ever did record an image,
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: whether it looped over it or not, could that be
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: obtained from the cloud or is it connected to a
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: local server.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 6: My assumption would be that it did not, that it
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 6: did not record an image.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: Guys, we're also hearing more about ransom notes.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 15: So the rational note that was distributed to the media
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 15: did make a demand for five pm today and if
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 15: a transfer wasn't made then I think a second demand
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 15: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 15: that without what's the Ranstom note.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: The media received well, it seems to me they've missed
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: today's five pm deadline, so we've got another deadline. Got
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: a question, did you guys glean that the ransom notes
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: sent to at least two, possibly three news outlets were
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: the exact same ransom note? That's my understanding as we
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: go to air right now? What about it? Dave mac It.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 5: Seems to be that is the case because they they
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 5: they being the Sheriff's Department. Law enforcement has not indicated
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 5: that they were all different individual and what is being
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 5: reported is consistent from all outlets so far. You'll got
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 5: let's they're in Tucson Local TV, but then you've got
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 5: the national angle of it with DMZ and they appear
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 5: to all say the same information. So whether they're identical,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 5: I don't know. But it was emailed to the outlets,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 5: and that would be indicative of easy enough just to
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 5: you know, copy and paste or forward whatever you want
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 5: to do.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, if it's emailed, why don't we have the IP provider?
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: But how are ways that criminals hide the location from
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: which they send an email?
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 8: Brian?
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 6: Yes, so they could use a series of VPNs to
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 6: protect this, you know where they created the email accounts.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 6: You know, depending on how nuanced they are, they could
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 6: make this very very difficult. Now, what I will say is,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 6: if there's any team, the FBI is probably the best.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 4: In the world at unwinding that.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 6: So you know, it takes time, and I think that
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 6: that is something that they're clearly clearly focused on.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Now, when you say VPN, you mean a virtual private network,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: How does that work? Because it seems to me that
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: that could easily be pierced. You're on your computer and
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: you go to private browser, I mean, how do you
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: how do you do VP?
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 6: And Brian, No, this would be far more nuanced in
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 6: order to hide your identity from the FBI. It would
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 6: be far more nuanced than subscribing to a VPN service.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 6: You would need to have planned out the devices you're
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 6: going to use, how you're going to connect to the internet,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 6: and then layering filtering that message through multiple devices that
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 6: that might be not located with you. So I'd be
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 6: unable to predict exactly how they did it.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 4: But my guess is it was a pretty nuanced effort
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: to protect that.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: So it's more than just an email masking service like
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: simple log In or Firefox Relay. It's not just an
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: email masking service. Could you be a little more clear
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: about how it's done.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess the key point that I'm trying to
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 6: make is, if you're going to hide your identity in
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 6: sending an email from the FBI, it's not going to
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 6: be a nine to ninety nine a month subscription service
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 6: that you log into and sign up for. You know,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 6: you're going to have to have some pretty advanced technical
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 6: skills to at least delay that process.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 4: My bet is that they.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 6: Will be able to find the origin of that email.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 6: How long it'll take, I don't know.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: Bottom line though, if they find the origin of the email,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: it could be an internet cafe where somebody goes in
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: in disguise even though they're recorded, and they log on
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: with a fake email and they send the ransom and
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: they send it to the three news outlets, including Team
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: Z and Kold. So how is that gonna help me?
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: Can the FBI ultimately pierce that And when they do
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: pierce it and they find somebody sitting there at internet
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: cafe with the disguise on, then what did they do? Brian?
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, in that example you just gave, that
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 6: would probably be the safest way but at least they
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 6: now know, you know, hey, this person was in this
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 6: area and that's where they're going to start to zero
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 6: in detecting cell phone patterns.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 4: Was that cell phone near Nancy Guthrie's house?
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 6: Now they can start to connect the dots further to
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 6: try to narrow down who it was, whether they were
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 6: in the disguise or not.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm wondering about also counts, pill counts. We
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: know that she cannot survive without her meds. What about it,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. If the perp knew which way her
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: nest cams were pointed in order to avoid them new
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: to disable the one on the door managed to escape
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: being caught on camera. Sent this by private network to
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: protect their identity through layers and layers and filters and filters.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: The ransom note. Would they know enough to take her
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: pills to keep her alive?
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 8: Pills meds were there?
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: But how many meds? How many pills?
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, if you really want to get money
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 7: for kidnapping, you want a ransom, right, you want to
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 7: keep the kidnapped person alive. But I think that in
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 7: a case like this with an elderly person I don't
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 7: know that they're thinking.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: That far ahead.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 7: I mean, there's some kind of desperation that drives.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 12: A move like this.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 7: I'm thinking about the motivations for a kidnap. You want money,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 7: right you. Maybe you're envious. Maybe you hate Savannah Guthrie
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 7: because she has an incredible career. Maybe like Brian Koberger,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 7: you are going.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: To just stop, stop, stop place place. I'm not writing
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: a fifth grade girl's novel. Oh, she hates Savannah, so
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: she creates a huge plot to cross the country to
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Tuson out in the desert and steal her mother. No
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: on all this business. Oh, it's because Savannah was going
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: to cover Epstein in an unaired segment.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 7: No, I think it's something a little different, Nancy.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: I think if any connection to Savannah, it's this, they
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: want money. S Havanna has money, exactly. Mean, that's very simple.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 7: Now, that's the connective line. I see too.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: Money.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 7: People when they see money, they want it. And that's
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 7: why I was wondering earlier about caregivers, gardeners, anybody in
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 7: her life, even church members who knew that that Nancy
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 7: was connected to somebody wealthy and famous and wanting to
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 7: target that person for their money is you know, Nancy.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 7: Even like when there's an elderly person who dies in
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 7: a family, often the surviving sibling group falls apart because
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 7: somebody in that sibling group wants the money. Money is
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 7: such a driver behind crime. So who in Nancy's life
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 7: knew about the wealth that her daughter had and who
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 7: might have wanted that wealth?
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy guys. Another issue that has now
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: been made public by law enforcement MENI media had already
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: heard it and did not report it, including us, was
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: that her pacemaker disconnected. It disconnected around two twenty eight. Now,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: that again does not mean that she died and her
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: pacemaker quit working. It means that more likely that she
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: was out of range from her phone, which we know
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: was left behind. What did he say, Dave Matt.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 5: What did you glean that the pacemaker disconnecting from the phone.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 5: You know it's connected via bluetooth, which means you've got
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 5: a twenty foot range. It doesn't mean that she was
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 5: that she passed away. It doesn't mean anything other than
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 5: her phone was there on the nightstand and she was
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 5: no longer within twenty feet of that phone. So that's
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 5: pretty much where they're leaving that particular comment. I'm talking
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 5: about law enforcement talking about the pacemaker and what it
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 5: means by disconnecting doesn't mean she's you know, that she
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 5: fell out doesn't mean that she It just means that
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 5: she was no longer within twenty feet.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: Two Rayvis Gibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security. Earlier,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: one of our experts, Christmas Dunner, noted that when law
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: enforcement left sister Annie's house, they had a looked like
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: a wooden but a box with them. He says that
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: that is a you fed you the letter you as
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: in Utah fed as em FedEx, which is a tool
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: implementing Celebrate. Celebrate analyzes and can download very quickly all
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: digital data from a location. We saw a very in
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: depth explanation of Celebrate on the witness stand from the
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: Secret Service in the Alex Murdon case. That's when many
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: people first found out about it. Explain if mcgunn is
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: right what they did in Annie's home.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so this this celebrate you fed case that the
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 6: images were shared on social media. What that what that's
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 6: able to do is a complete extraction of all mobile
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 6: phone data, contacts, SMS, messages, pictures, videos, call logs, audio files.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 6: It's going to do a full memory dump of that
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 6: phone system, providing you know, even old files that were deleted, passwords,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 6: et cetera. So it's gonna that that kit is a
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 6: mobile kit that is assigned to that team that they
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 6: brought there. You know, we can draw some conclusions from that.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 6: You know, are they just excluding family members? They want
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 6: to get an image of those phones in that process,
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 6: that's the most likely.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, Brian, one more time and slowly. What does the
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: you fed do? Very slowly? How does it work?
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 6: So the you fed is going to be able to
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 6: connect to any mobile device and provide a complete extraction. Basically,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 6: they're going to get contacts, SMS, messages, photos, videos, call logs,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 6: any audio files, all the IMEI data, anything that's on
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 6: that simcard will be imaged by that you fed device.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: And it gets it immediately. Then it's got to be analyzed.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: And I'd like to point out to everyone, all you
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: legal legals already know this. The first place law enforcement
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: looks is at those closest to the victim. So of
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: course they're looking at the family. So first thing you
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: do is rule them out. Then you move out to
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: people that worked with Nancy Guthrie, people that cut her
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: grassle that trees, people that delivered mail, FedEx guys ups,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: the gun, people next door, the people in the neighborhood,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: the people at the grocery store, the people at the church,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: the granny nannies if there are any, and the granny
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: nanny sons and the granny nanny husbands, and it goes
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: out and out until you catch the person. Now, this person,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you and guys jump in, is somebody local,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: because why would they have sent the ransom notes to
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: Kold and TMZ possibly k Gun k g u N
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: because they're local. How would they know where she lived
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: out literally in the middle of the desert and this
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: desert enclave. How would they know about the granny cams
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: and the nest cam were they watching to see when
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: she was brought home when that garage door closed. All
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: of this suggests someone that knows her or the family
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: fairly well or can access that information. Also, yesterday we
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: saw La come back to the scene and go back
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: and forth to the garage with canines. Now we know
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: part of the timeline is the up and down of
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: the garage door. Put all this together, Brian Fitzgibbons, What
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so with the up and down in the garage
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 6: door in the timeline, you know, they're certainly going to
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 6: find out, you know, is that a normal minute and
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 6: a half two minute gap from when Nancy's in and out.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: Of the house.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 6: If they have that data, they're going to be able
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: to get past data as well to verify that nothing
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 6: jumps off the page to me. There. What I think
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 6: is really really a big question about this timeline is
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 6: with relation to the doorbell camera, there's a twenty five
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 6: minute gap from when that camera was disconnected to when
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 6: that person is registered. The software detects a person, right,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 6: what happened within that twenty five minutes? And how was
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 6: nothing captured by these other cameras inside the house?
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 4: You know, those are the main That's the big question.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, Hey, do you see the two twelve am guys?
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: Software detects person on camera? Is that the door cam
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: or is that the inside cam? Where a person is
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: detected on camera? What about it? Dave Matt Because we
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: know she had a spike and her pacemaker at two
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: am exactly, so.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 5: We know there's something going on in that house regardless
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 5: of what law enforcement is willing to say. At this point,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 5: you mentioned that a person it appears on camera, our
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 5: motion is detected of a person. It's not a big
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 5: leap to think we've got action taking place in and
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 5: around the home and Nancy Guthrie becoming intensely aggravated moving
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 5: somewhere that her pacemaker reacts to that. We've got this
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 5: very very tight window here of activity that one can
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 5: only look at the facts in front of you and say, well,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: that's when she had to something happened to Nancy Guthrie,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 5: mean the time of twenty eight, Well.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. The door cam disconnects one
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: at two twelve, a person is to take that on camera.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: But wait a minute, at two am there is entry missing.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: At two am we get a spike on her pacemaker.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Does that mean the door cam disconnects. They're in the
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: home at two am, waking her up, rousting her out
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: of bed or off the sofa. To twelve am to
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: software disconnect a person, the software to take a person
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: outside or movement inside, taking her out of her bedroom
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: two twenty eight, she's out of range. So what do
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: you believe, Dave mac that two am spike on her
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: pacemaker indicates.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 5: I believe that, tied together with the one forty seven
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 5: am indicator, that she was rousted out of bed, and
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 5: I believe it was probably very physical to get her
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 5: out of bed. You know, this is not a person
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 5: who moves around easily. Somebody inside the home is going
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 5: to want to get in and out of there quickly.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 5: They're not going to be gentle, They're not going to
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 5: wake her up with some music. They're going to wake
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 5: her up to a point where she is going going
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 5: to react instead of shock, panic, in fear. So that
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 5: would make a sense. That makes sense for me at
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 5: two am, having that spike thirteen minutes after we get
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 5: the indicator, and again when you look at what else
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 5: is coming up, it just shows you that some kind
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 5: of chaos is taking place and she has reacted to it,
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 5: and we know that we have her blood going out
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 5: of the home. Between the time that we get that
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 5: first indicator of one forty seven, the two AM spike
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 5: and then two twenty eight, Nancy, it tells you a lot.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: It was over so quickly, her being taken from the home.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: What do you make of the two am spike as
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: it fits into the timeline.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 7: Doctor Bethany, Well, I agree with Dave mac I think
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 7: that somebody tried to get her out of bed, somebody
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 7: who was unfamiliar to her. So you have the inner circle,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 7: you have her adult children, you have maybe the church members,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 7: you have people who know her intimately, and then you
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 7: have the next outer ring of people who know her intimates.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 7: Maybe it's the spouse of the gardener. Maybe it's the
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 7: a caregiver or a nurse who comes in and gives
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 7: gives administers medication, and that she goes home and talks
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 7: to her adult children or something like that. You have
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 7: an out of a circle, somebody who's she's not that
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 7: familiar with, who tries to get her out of bed,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 7: and that's where you see that spike. So so Nancy,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 7: I'm going to go back to this idea that elderly
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 7: people are their targets, right, They're very vulnerable, and especially
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 7: when there's wealth and she has a beautiful home. I've
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 7: seen that neighborhood. All these lots are one to four acres.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 7: Anybody who goes through that neighborhood knows that Nancy, that
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 7: Nancy has money, right, and so they're enticed by the
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 7: stories of the people on the in the inner circle,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 7: and they're thinking about how can I utilize Nancy to
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 7: get some financial gain. And so when you go back
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 7: to the spike, somebody's getting her out of bed who
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 7: maybe is tangentially related to her, but is not a
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 7: primary person in her life.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Guys are seeing a segment on the Today Show Savannah
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: and her Mom that was taken off YouTube. It was
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: an Arizona homecoming where Savannah went back home. There's a
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: lot of speculation that whoever plotted this saw this segment
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: and became aware of Nancy Guthrie. I don't necessarily believe that,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: because I believe the is local anyway, that is from YouTube.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: And to you, Fitzgibbons, where do you what do you
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: think the two am spike indicates?
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm in agreement with doctor Bethany and Dave that
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 6: you know what we're seeing is is likely the perpetrator
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 6: removed that had already gained access to the residents by
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 6: one seven. And I think an important note here that
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 6: we haven't talked about to conduct an operation like this
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 6: to abduct someone, it's going to take two people, right,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 6: There's very likely not one person doing this. To pull
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 6: her out of the house, put her in a vehicle
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 6: and drive her away. All right, So you know, I
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 6: think what you see on the timeline is, hey, take
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 6: the camera off.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: Persons now in the house.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 6: Two am is probably when they made first contact with Nancy,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 6: and I believe that the data bears that out.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: And in the middle of all this trying to finance
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: he gether and bring her home alive, an impostor ransomer emerges.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: What happened to mac.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 5: Had the first hint that there was a ransom note
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 5: when TMZ went live before they went to police with
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 5: the note. We have this ransom note appearing at Kold
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: and kgU In in Tucson, so it's public knowledge that
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: ransom notes have occurred. However, the FBI investigat another ransom
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 5: note that comes in now. This is one we don't
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: know much about. But what we do know is that
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 5: the FBI made an arrest today and it was of
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 5: a ransom hoax. It was not similar to the other
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 5: ransom notes that had been supported at this point. Suspected
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 5: it was a hoax and they were able to arrest
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 5: that individual. Trying to take advantage of the worst possible
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 5: thing for a family to go through right now. So
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 5: he's already been arrest He or she has already been arrested.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 5: We haven't got a name or anything else, but we'll
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 5: find that out.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt, you have a concern.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 5: I'm really concerned that the home was treated as a
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 5: crime scene very early on. They being law enforcement, did
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 5: all the work they wanted to do and release the
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 5: home back to the family. But then yesterday afternoon we
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 5: get word that they've got yellow tape up and they
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 5: have blocked everything thing off and law enforcement. They've got FBI,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 5: they've got guys in tacticle gear and canine units are
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 5: out at the site again, and it's an explosion of
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 5: activity after the place. The home has already been released
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 5: back to the family. That bothers me immensely because I
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 5: wonder what did they miss the first time, and why
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 5: is it all of a sudden becoming a big issue again.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously, and chime in, fitz Gibbons, if you disagree.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: They should never have released the crime scene. The crime
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: scene should not be opened now, it should be locked down.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: Everybody and their sister can go over there and poke around.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Why has it been released? I think it's a horrible idea.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: What about it? And that opens up clients from an
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: ultimate defense team that someone else came in and tampered
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: with the scene and planet evidence. That's where that goes.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 8: Brian.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 6: I couldn't agree more that scene should have been held
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 6: and not released to the family. That scene should still
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 6: be held, and Sheriff Chris Nato has said as much
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 6: today in the press conference that that was a mistake.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 6: What he tried to explained it away with is that
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 6: the FBI joined the case and they wanted to get
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 6: a fresh look at the crime scene themselves, which is
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 6: certainly a natural thing.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 4: You know, that was a mistake.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 6: It's a Monday morning quarterback, as he said, But they
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 6: definitely should have.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 4: Held that scene.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: Did you pick up on what Savannah was saying, Oh, guys,
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: that video was for our friends at twelve News. Did
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: you pick up on what Savannah was saying about AI
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: artificial images artificial intelligence being used to create a photo
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: or video of Nancy Guthrie. Does that indicate to you
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: that the ransom notes had some sort of an image
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: on them, Brian, that was.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 6: The very first thought that came to my mind when
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 6: I heard that comment, is that there must have been
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 6: some kind of image or video included in that ransom note,
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 6: and what Savannah was expressing is, hey.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 4: We need more.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 6: We need real proof of life, which in today's day
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 6: and age with AI and the ability for deep fakes,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 6: is going to have to be closely coordinated with the
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 6: FBI to have some kind of two way live video call,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 6: maybe on an encrypted channel that the FBI creates.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Savannah's plea to the kidnapper.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 9: On behalf of our family, we want to thank all
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 9: of you for the prayers for our beloved mom Fancy.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 9: We feel them, and we continue to believe that she
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 9: feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 9: fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 9: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 9: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 9: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 9: of kindness and knowledge.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 16: Talk to her and you'll.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 17: See the light is missing from our lives.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 16: Nancy is our mother. We are her children.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 12: She is our beacon.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 9: She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 16: She chooses joy day after day, despite.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 9: Having already passed through great trials of pain and grief,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 9: we are always going to be merely human, just normal
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 9: human people who need our mom.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 16: Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 16: We missed you.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 9: Our mom is our heart and our home. She is
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 9: eighty four years old. Her health, her heart is fragile.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 9: She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 9: She needs it to survive, she needs it not to suffer.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 16: We two have.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 9: Heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 9: As a family, we are doing everything that we can.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 9: We are ready to talk. However, we live in a
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 9: world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 9: to know without a doubt that she is alive and
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 9: that you have her.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 16: We want to hear from you, and we are ready
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 16: to listen.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 9: Please reach out to us, Mommy, if.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 16: You are hearing this, you are a strong woman.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 9: You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 9: that even in this valley, he is with you.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 16: Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 9: We will not rest, Your children will not rest until
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 9: we are together again. We speak to you every moment,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 9: and we pray without ceasing, and we rejoice in advance
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 9: for the day that we hold you in our arms again.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: We love you.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 16: We love you, Mom, stay strong. We love.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 8: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 15: So the raster note that was distributed to the media
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 15: did make a demand for five pm today and if
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 15: a transfer wasn't made then I think a second demand
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 15: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 15: that without what's the rastom note.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: The media received the suggestion that time is up for
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: Savannah Gufrie's mother, but the PERP issued another ultimatum another
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: day deadline coming up in two days. Breaking news Savannah Guthries'
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: mother missing day six. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories and I want to thank you for
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel, each
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: one and expert in their own right, straight out to
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac heart breaking
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: watching Cameron Guthries plea this on the heels of sister Savannah.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, for those of you that
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: have only seen our friends, Savannah Guthries agonizing plea for
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: her mother to be brought home I want you to
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: hear Cameron Guthries plea for his mother to be brought home.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 18: Listen, this is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 18: Whoever is out there holding our mother. We want to
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 18: hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 18: you to reach out and we need a way to
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 18: commune with you so we can move forward. But first
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 18: we have to know that you have our mom. We
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 18: want to talk to you and we are waiting for contact.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: Are they going to have to go old school to
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie. I'm talking about dogs, drones looking at
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: the area. How far could she have gotten? Are there
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: two or more people involved this? As many speculate the
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: purp is within or close to the family. But I
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: just want to tell you. Let me go straight out
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: to you, Dave Mac. I find it very very hard
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: to believe. Let's see a shot of Savannah with sister
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: Annie and brother Cameron as they were making that plea.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to believe, Dave Mac, that
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: the brother and the sister and Savannah could sit there
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: begging for the return of their mother while secretly wondering
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: heys cousin Larry, part of this, I mean, knowing something
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: of that import I don't see it, Dave Mac. I mean,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: I know what the statistics say. I know the statistics
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: say look to those closest to the victim. But just
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: looking at the three siblings, I don't see it, Dave Mac.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Or maybe is that I don't want to see it.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 4: Nancy.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 5: It looks to me like they don't consider it somebody
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 5: that's very close to them.
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: But Nancy, in.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 5: All probability, the person or persons involved in this had
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 5: access to that house before. Now that leaves you with gardeners,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 5: people that come by to help out with things around
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 5: the house. There are a lot of people that had
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 5: access to that house, and they would have been familiar
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 5: with camera placement and things like that that you've mentioned
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 5: before about the granny cams. So there are a lot
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 5: of people beyond that close family friend group that would
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 5: have had access to that house. And maybe that's why
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 5: you're seeing they just look devastated. To me, the whole
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 5: family does. And all the communication is one way. It's
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 5: coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 5: of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point, they've
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 5: been given no communication way of reaching out. That's why
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 5: Cameron said, we need to know you've got her. We
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 5: need gay and we need you to reach out to
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 5: us to tell us how to get up with you.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 5: They don't know who it is, but it could be
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 5: somebody they've seen a lot, you know, Dave.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: Mac You're right again, a lot of speculation swirling about
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: a family member somehow being involved. But when I look
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: at those three, I just don't see it, or maybe
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: I'm blind, but I'm rejecting that this as the theory
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: has swirled of a really sinister plot to go into
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: the home and remove the door cam, the front door cam.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: Let's see a shot of where the door cam would
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: have been like coming in, for instance, through the back door,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: coming through, reaching out the front door and yankee that off,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: so you the perp are not pictured on the door cam.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: And then waiting because if you look at the timeline, now,
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: let's see the timeline. Please, If you look at the timeline,
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: there's about a twenty minute gap. You've got her coming
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: home from dinner in Majong with Annie and the son
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: in law. Okay, Then the garage door closes and we
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: assume she's entering through the kitchen door from her garage.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: Then look at it. The door cam disconnects on the
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: front door. Then you've got about twenty minutes. Did they
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: yank off the door cam and wait to see if
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: police would arrive? Now, Dave Matt great me if I'm wrong, please,
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: because these times are critical. Wasn't there a spike, a
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: noticeable spike and her pacemaker, her heart monitor at two am?
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 5: There was? There was a noticeable spike at two am,
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 5: So you're talking about thirteen minutes after the camera is
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 5: pulled down, and that thirteen minute window, you know, the
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 5: first thing that happens when they're checking on somebody is
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 5: the phone call are you okay? That's usually what happens
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 5: with home security systems, and then if nothing there, then
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 5: the police at two o'clock. We I believe anyway, that
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 5: that's when the kidnapper or kidnappers were actually in her
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 5: room and putting hands on her, getting her up out
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 5: of bed.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Chris McDonough, our long time friend and colleague.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: He is the director at the Cold Case Foundation, former
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: homicide detective with over three hundred bonafide homicides under his Belt,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: also host of the YouTube channel The Interview Room where
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: I found him. Chris, thank you for being with us
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: regarding this whole theory that the family is involved in
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: some way, which I reject. I'm putting it out there.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: You and I have talked privately about you Fed. You Fed.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: It's a Celebrate system. It's mobile and it's carried in
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: a box. Usually it looks like a you know, a
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: messenger boy bag or a briefcase that you wear over
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: your shoulder that was seen being carried out of the
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: family home. Explain what the Celebrate you Fed does in
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: a nutshell? Do go deafcom for on me? So?
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 19: Well, there's a couple of things that it does. It's
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 19: a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene,
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 19: in this case, the house, and then you're able to
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 19: download any type of forensic evidence in the house from
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 19: devices such as you know, computers or you know, phone,
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 19: cell phones, et cetera. Uh, and then that information is
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 19: immediately available through some software that Celebrate has to the
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 19: investigators on the scene.
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: It can get deleted texts, emails, ims, it can get
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: encrypted and it really came to the forefront of our
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: national knowledge, our bubble of knowledge during the Alex Murdock
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: trial when a secret Service witness took the stand to
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: explain how it was used in that case and it worked.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: This is what I'm thinking. That witness that observed the
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: agent coming out with the youth head, it was like,
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: you know, pouring gas on a flame. They suggest that
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: the families involved Number one, the families always scrutinized. First statistically,
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: they are involved. I do not believe at this juncture
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: that that is the case. Here. I want to defend
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: them so that is not out of the ordinary. This
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: is what I think they should do. Chris McDonough. Everybody
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: take a polygraph. Everybody, everybody in the family, all the granny, nannies,
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: everyone that worked with her in her yard, in her driveway,
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: the handyman, the Instacart person, the pizza guy, all of them,
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: even the Sunday school teacher. Yes, I said it, submit
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: to a polygraph. What do you think about that, Chris McDonough.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: And then anybody that says, hgbl no, they're at the
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: top of my suspect list.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 19: Yeah, I think almost immediately that's not a bad idea.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: I think that could be a path.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 19: But you can take Savannah and the brother off of
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 19: that list right away. What the anomaly is in that
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 19: you fed problem here is who brought it to the scene,
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 19: and that was the IKAC team Internet Crimes against Children.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 19: So this could be a whole other lane that's not
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 19: even being looked at here. That is kind of a
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 19: one off from the actual abduction of missus Guthrie.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, put him up. Are you saying that now we're
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: investigating a crime on a child? Are you actually saying that.
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that, Well, I'm saying that's possible. Yes, yes,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: it's possible.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, No, they had the celebrates, so they brought
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: it over. Now, if I'm asking you to bring Everson
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: case files, do you put on a crime Stories t shirt? No,
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: you come in what you're wearing case Solved. I don't
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: think you know what. Take him away. I'm gonna let
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: you sit there and think about what you just said.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: What But but I'll.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: Tell you here's the deal.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 19: When you have a major case like this, and I've
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 19: worked many of them, and you run across something, you go,
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 19: what is this? Okay, you don't have the eye TAC
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 19: people show up with their you fed that just doesn't happen.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 19: That is a secondary problem that they potentially could have
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 19: run into. It may not be involved with missus Guthrie
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 19: in any way, shape or form. However, these guys did
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 19: show up, and they don't show up.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: To search for missing eighty four year old women. That's
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: my point.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 8: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: Who are we looking at? Number one? I'm calling for polygraphs.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie knows exactly what's going on right now. Savannah
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: is not only a sweet, loving, sincere person. I know
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: because I worked with her. I've seen her under all
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: sorts of stressful conditions, nothing like this, of course, but
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: she knows the law people like the back of her hand,
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: and I guarantee you she'd be the first one to
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: get in line for the polly to make everybody else
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: do it. So what do we do now? Todd Shipley
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: is with US digital cybercrime expert, former Detective Sergeant Reno
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: twenty five years in law enforcement, author of surviving a
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: cyber attack, author of investigating Internet crimes. This is your Baillywick,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: the whole you fed celebrate. What do you think is
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: going on? To me? It's sop standard operating procedure instead
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: of carting all the Famili's laptops, their desktops, their phones,
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: everything out, They just did you fed, That's what I
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: think happened, Todd, Well, I don't.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 17: Think you're incorrect, Nancy. I think what happened is who's
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 17: available to the time. So you've got a major crime
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 17: and somebody could have been on vacation or something like that,
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 17: and they said who's got access to and who's trained
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 17: to use the tool, and so the guys go, we're here,
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 17: we can show up. What I think happened, though, is
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 17: the reason they focused on family, if they did at
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 17: that time, was keep in mind things like green cameras
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 17: and those other cameras can share the videos to other people,
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 17: and so they may have been trying to find other
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 17: evidence on those phones from the family's phones that was
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 17: shared by the ring camera at the house. So there's
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 17: a lot of other things that explain why this occurred.
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 17: It wasn't that there was some other crime occurring. The
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 17: family may have had evidence that they wanted to look
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 17: at the Uber receipts, all the other things that were
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 17: going on. They're trying to build a background around what
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 17: happened and it's on phones, because we've talked about this
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 17: many times about how the phones have everything about our
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 17: lives and it's going to describe the mother too.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, you listed and I've really liked this idea, todd
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: Shipley other things. When I think of the you FED celebrate,
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: I think a cell phone. I think of an iPad,
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: a desktop, a laptop. You're saying there are other devices
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: and thwell that can be factored into the u FED,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: not just those devices such as what so.
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 17: What we're talking about is the apps on the phone,
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 17: because you can share those apps with other people, and
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 17: so I can share my ring camera app with family, friends,
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 17: whoever I want to share it with, and that may
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 17: have been on the phone, and that's what they're looking for.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 17: They're looking for the uber connections. They're looking for all
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 17: the apps that were used to build a background about
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 17: what the mother did beforehand.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: But how would looking at their devices and their laptops
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: and so forth help them establish what Nancy Guthrie did.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 17: Because you can share everything you do uber. You do
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 17: an uber, I can share it with a family or
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 17: friend that I did it. I can share the camera
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 17: itself and let other people see what's happening at my house,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 17: so I can get the notifications and get information, and
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 17: that may have been what's on their phones. It's not
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 17: something nefarious. It's just that all these things can be
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 17: shared between phones now and they could have had had
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 17: the images or some other things, maybe even the pacemaker.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 17: I don't know how the pacemaker, this particular one worked,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 17: but it could have been shared across other devices so
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 17: that people knew she was in trouble.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, I've got an example to boil down what you
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: just said, and I found like parables that this made
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: more sense to jury's Okay, we have granny cams at
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: our home because my mother, my ninety four year old
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: mother lives with us. My husband has the app. I
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: have the app, our children have the app. So you're
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: saying that, for instance, if the fans came and did
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: celebrate on me, they could get anything I shared with
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: my children, such as life three sixty bar exactly. So
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: they're on my Uber eights, they're on my uber. Is
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: that what you're saying?
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 17: And Lie three sixty, you know, is a great example
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 17: of one of the those things that are shared commonly
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 17: a bunkst family to track and identify where people are at,
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 17: especially a vulnerable senior. That's an important thing to understand
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 17: where they're at, and so the family wants it to know.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 17: So their apps are going to be tracking what's going
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 17: on with mouch.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, what if they had a family phone plan? Do
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: you know about those? How a group of people? Okay,
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: explain that would that be included?
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 4: Well, it could potentially.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 17: It just depends on the settings that you, as the
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 17: user set up or the owner of that family plan. Now,
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 17: some of those things those family plans, you know, share
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 17: the text message and share all those things, and you can,
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 17: as the owner of the plan, can go in and
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 17: see activity certain activities depending on what's happening. So those
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 17: are other technologies that you know, the law enforcement is
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 17: going to be looking at to see the behavior before
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 17: and after the incident.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: So bottom line, Todd Shipley, if they could you fed
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm using that as a verb, celebrate the family's information,
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: they could then at the same time captured any shared
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: apps that were shared with Nancy Guthrie.
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 5: Correct, correct, exactly.
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 17: That's that's why the celebrate was there looking at the phone.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: Got it And just an example, Todd Shipley, of how important.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: That is the Brian Coberger, Idaho case. We know that
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: there was a delivery. I think it was a door
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: dash around four am, three thirty am, four am because
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: we saw it on one of the victim's phones. That's
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: how important this is. I'm thinking about how to go
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 1: old school to find Nancy Guthrie, starting with lpr's license
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: plate readers, red light cams.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry joining US Forensic Certified Bloodstained Pattern Analysts, Senior
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: crime scene Analyst, death investigator, author of bloodstained pattern analysis
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: for author of forensic science applications to death and crime
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: scene author of death investigations, Information to obtain during a
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: forensic death investigation. It goes on and on. Let's talk
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: old school. We've heard over and over from mainstream media
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: that nobody's door cam could likely catch anything because of
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: the houses in that neighborhood are set far off the
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: street and there is a lot of foliage, trees, you
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: name it. That's why people want to live there. You
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: have a secluded Look at all the can I see
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: that aeril again? Look at all the trees, the foliage
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 1: around each home. I see what they're saying, But those streets,
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: Jeff gentry have to have to pour out somewhere, like
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: the aim to the river, like the river to the sea.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: There's an outlet somewhere, and at that outlet, I guarantee
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 1: you there's a red light. Bam, what about it.
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 20: I completely agree at this point, six days into this investigation,
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 20: if you do not have a suspect, and you do
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 20: not have a solid lead, you can't just sit around
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 20: and wait. I know we have tons of people working
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 20: on this. You actually have to go out, like you said,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 20: yet old school. You have to rely on traditional police
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 20: work and you have to rely on science to solve
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 20: this crime. This is not your typical criminal. It's not
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 20: somebody that has made huge mistakes. They probably didn't have
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 20: their cell phone with them where they're going to get
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 20: self power things. They're not making major mistakes like you
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 20: see in a lot of crimes of passion. This is
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 20: obviously planned out. This is not your typical crime. But
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 20: you see that they did make mistakes. They took things
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 20: from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes by
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 20: leaving bloodstains behind. So when you're talking about forensics and science,
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 20: you think about every single contact leaves a trace. That's
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 20: one of the foundations of forensic science. Every single contact.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: Leaves a trace.
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 20: So when this person was preparing for this crime, they
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 20: left forensic evidence. When this person was traveling to the scene,
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 20: they left forensic evidence when they broke into the home.
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 20: And we're talking about forced entry. A lot of people
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 20: don't know what forced entry means. It means like a
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 20: door was either pride open, a window was broken, somebody
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 20: used some kind of a mechanism to unlock a door.
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 20: So that's what forced entry means. So they're leaving behind evidence.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 20: Looking at the front door, I don't see any fingerprint dust.
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 20: So what I would do in this case is I
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 20: would scrap everything, start from scratch, recreate this whole event.
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 20: Try to think about how this criminal got in the home.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 20: Walk their path, how did they interact with the victim?
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 20: Walk their path, did they sit down somewhere, did they
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 20: touch things, did they wash their hands? Did they eat
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 20: something out of the refrigerator. All of these contacts inside
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 20: the home and with the victim can leave traces. They
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 20: could leave bibers, it could leave fingerprints, it could leave DNA.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 20: You can't rule anything out in this case. Even if
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 20: they've released the scene, they can still go back in
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 20: and use blood enhancing chemicals like blue Star in the
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 20: dark to see if bloodstains that may have been wiped up,
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 20: or maybe small blood stains that got disturbed during these contacts.
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 20: You have to think like a criminal in these cases.
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 20: How did this person get in? How did they exit
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 20: the door cam? Most of these door cams you can't
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 20: just pull them off. They require some kind of special
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 20: tool to get them off. So was there some kind
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 20: of a scratch or did they leave a fingerprint behind
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 20: when they were reaching through the door to remove this
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 20: camera so it wouldn't see when they're walking her out.
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 20: Like we mentioned before, there doesn't really appear to be
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 20: a struggle at that front door. We know that she
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 20: was bleeding, we know she's standing there for some period
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 20: of time. We believe that she was upright and walked
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 20: away because the nature of the blood stains. But why
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 20: didn't she follow the ground? But what was the reason
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 20: that she left that home without being dragged away or
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 20: carried away? There's no evidence that she was murdered in
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 20: the home to so why does she leave? You have
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 20: to think about all these things. You can't rely on
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 20: assumption at this point. You have to recreate everything and
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 20: figure out where this person messed up, because this criminal
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 20: did mess up somewhere and they will be caught.
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 1: One thing I've been wondering, and I'm projecting, it's really
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: hard to pick up my mother, who's very light, she's
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: ninety four and move her anywhere without her walker. Very hard.
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: Now Nancy uses a cane. Is her cane missing? Did
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 1: she have a walker that's used at home? Is it missing?
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 1: Did they take that? If they didn't, I'm wondering if
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 1: there had to be two people to help her walk. Jeffrey,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: that's very possible.
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 20: I think about my own mom when looking at this case,
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 20: because she's kind of built the same way.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 4: She has thin skin, she would leave easily.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 20: And anytime that my mom has ever been in like
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 20: physical distress or needed help or you know, when she
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 20: had knee surgery, I had to help her throughout the house.
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 5: It's not easy.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 20: Even if somebody is not a very big person walking
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 20: them throughout the house. They're gonna be touching different things,
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 20: they might fall down, so it's not an easy thing
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 20: to do. And if you're trying to remove cameras, if
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 20: you're trying to get out to a car, quickly to
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 20: leave the scene. They're going to be touching things. There's
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 20: going to be things disturbed. I want to know more
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 20: about what's inside the house. I would love to know that,
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 20: and I would love to see the scene. I would
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 20: love to see the area. I would love to walk
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 20: around door to door ask neighbors again.
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 4: What did you see?
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 20: Every little piece of information is going to be critical
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 20: at this point.
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 8: Crime stores with Nancy.
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 1: Gray, police bringing out devices, bringing out evidence. They're swarming
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 1: it still. This is from our friends at KOLD. The
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 1: search was called off for a period of time, then
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 1: it resumed. Much has been made about law enforcement releasing
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: the crime scene and then having to come back to
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 1: the crime scene. Does anybody on this panel disagree they
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 1: released it prematurely. I didn't know what they were thinking
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 1: when they did that.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 2: I that was a thing that you have everything that
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 2: you need.
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 20: It's not uncommon to release a crime scene, and it's
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 20: not uncommon to go back to a crime scene after
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 20: it's been released, after you bounce ideas off each other.
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 20: For example, I think that they should probably go back
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 20: in there again and open up dreams take every single place.
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: As I have said many times, they release a crime
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 1: scene and everybody and a little sister could go over
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 1: there and poke around those photos of the blood that
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 1: was taken by media. That's not right. No, they should
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 1: not have released that crime scene because now it's been
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: totally compromised. You ever try to try a case when
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 1: the scene's being compromised, It's hell. It's like the golden
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: lottery ticket for the defense to claim, oh, that wasn't
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 1: there before it was planted, and so forth and so on.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 1: Can we get back to the ransom notes? We all
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 1: know by now, all you legal eagles know that a
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 1: fake ransom note was delivered by text to Savannah and
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: I think her brother and or her brother and sister.
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 1: That Purp has been found. He's been arrested, and he's
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 1: going to be prosecuted under federal law. And the theory
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 1: is he used interstate commerce. What does that mean? Anything
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: that crosses state lines has been deemed by our Supreme
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: Court to be use of interstate commerce. Either you're driving
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 1: across state lines, that's interstate And you're using a vehicle
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 1: and you bought gas, Hey, that's commerce. You may be
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: using the phone, you pay a phone bill, that's commerce.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: You may text, you may send a telegraph a telegraph,
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if your communication crosses state lines or
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 1: any way controlled by the federal government. You have used
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 1: interstate commerce. Bam. Does that make sense to everybody? No,
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 1: it doesn't, but it makes sense to the US Supreme Court.
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: So when this guy sent a text across US airwaves
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: the law that's interstate commerce, he has already been booked
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: and he is in jail. We have also learned Dave
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: Matt that law enforcement has said all the fake ransoms
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 1: are bogging down the investigation.
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 5: There's that many, you know, Nancy, this is one of
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 5: those situations where the media interest because people are so
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 5: fascinated by this, mainly because of Savannah Guthrie, but also
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 5: the fact that there's an eighty four year old woman
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 5: missing and it's got people going crazy. So, yeah, the
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 5: fact that we know there are ransom notes. You know,
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 5: we've had plenty of missing people cases that we've covered
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 5: that didn't have ransom notes, but here we have them.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 5: So all the crazies have come out of the woodwork
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 5: and they're flooding. All the investigators have to take everything seriously.
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 5: As they said, from the very beginning, you know, before
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 5: they even verified the first ransom notes we heard about,
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 5: they were like, we are taking every tip, every call seriously.
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 5: They have to. It's an investigation, and that's what they've
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 5: been doing. That's how they were able to get the
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 5: guy arrested in California so quickly. They've already got him
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 5: admitting that he sent the fake or that he sent
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 5: the fake messages. You know, they had him tied down
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 5: in a matter of twenty four hours, Nancy. So yeah,
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 5: they're spending a lot of time on everything that comes
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 5: into them, including fake ransom notes, trying to take advantage
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 5: of a big claim billionaire.
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 1: You know, you know, I'm thinking about technology, about going
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: old school to solve this case. When we say old school,
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 1: todd Shipley, you were reeling off a lot of must do's,
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: What are they what must be happening right now?
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 17: Well, from a technology point of view, what the law
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 17: enforcements looking at is anything they can find where there's
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 17: a record. They're looking at the tower records for all
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 17: the cell phones in that area. Keep in mind, there's
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 17: always going to be a lot of records, but this
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 17: is the middle of the night so it'll be less
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 17: a look at all the flock cameras and any cameras
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 17: that are reading license plates in and around the area
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 17: and throughout Tucson, because they're trying to find any suspect
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 17: that's moving at that time of night, and so that's
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 17: going to limit the amount of people moving around. So
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 17: I know they've already looked at all the ring cameras
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 17: in the neighborhood. They're looking at all the records that
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 17: they could find. Technology wise, they've gone through her phone
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 17: trying to figure out other things that she's done that
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 17: could lead up to a precipitate something. Keep in mind,
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 17: we don't know the contact she's had with other people.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 17: One of the things I talk about all the time
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 17: with seniors and vulnerable people is that if you're not
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 17: paying attention, they could get sucked into some kind of
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 17: scam and you don't know it. So they're looking at
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 17: her phone to find out if she was texting, communicating
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 17: with on What's app, was somebody talking about bitcoin or
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 17: something else, and becoming more conversant with the kinds of
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 17: contacts she had.
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 4: Towards the end there.
• 2:31:54
  Speaker 17: So there's a huge amount of valuable data they're going
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 17: to get from the technology.
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 1: What about it? Jeffrey Gentry.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 20: I'm curious about the motive. Is it really financial at
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 20: this point? Because you have a person that has obviously
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 20: put out there that they want money for this crime,
• 2:32:13
  Speaker 20: but they haven't been in contact with the family since
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 20: they haven't been in contact with law enforcement, so I
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 20: think you have to kind of start thinking about doing
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 20: some profiling in this case, trying to figure out who
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 20: this suspect is and what actually is their intended motive
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 20: and why haven't you heard from them? Why why aren't
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 20: they reaching out?
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the motive is clear. Have I missed
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: something they said, give me millions in bigcoin quote or else.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's the motive which leads me to has
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 1: anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family up for money?
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: Is somebody in need financial need that they know of.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: I would be looking at every single person and their
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 1: husbands and sons that need money, anybody with ad They've
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 1: already been looking at sex predators in the area. But
• 2:33:03
  Speaker 1: it's not about a sex predator. I'm telling you that
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 1: right now. Agree or disagree.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 19: Chris mcdonna, Yeah, I wouldn't take anything off the table though,
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 19: because she's such a low risk victim. Here there is
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 19: an association between the victim and this offender. And to
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 19: your point, Nancy, somewhere in this circle of influence and
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 19: you always do start with the family, of course, and
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 19: you work your way out. This offender is familiar because
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 19: if you look at the victimology of this particular woman here,
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 19: you know the offender risk of just arbitrarily showing up
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 19: at you know, two o'clock in the morning, ripping a
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 19: doorbell off, breaking into a house, you know, taking an
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 19: eighty four year old woman out of that house, and
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 19: then saying, oh, by the way, I need bitcoin between
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 19: two or four million dollars. That tells us a whole
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 19: bunch about the unsophistication of this particular perpetrator. So that
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 19: means at some point they have cross paths. And if
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 19: you look at this picture here with her sitting on
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 19: that chair, look at her left hand. That to me,
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 19: when I first saw that photograph, I thought, okay, did
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 19: she fall going outside onto that porch? Because when you
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 19: look at the blood evidence there, there's also a piece
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 19: of the debris over on top of the blood, and
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 19: those are ninety degree droplets which the other guests I'm
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 19: sure would agree with. If you look at the upper
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 19: left hand quadrant, there is a debris on top of
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 19: that blood. So I went back and looked at the
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 19: news reports where they showed the evidence technicians photographing that,
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 19: and so does that tell us that the suspect was
• 2:34:43
  Speaker 19: behind her and had kicked that debris on top of
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 19: that blood, and had she fallen and was trying to
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 19: get back up which would create those ninety degree blood
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 19: droplets there? So I think there's a possibility that you
• 2:34:58
  Speaker 19: do have to go old scar cool. The technology is
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 19: going to be a bonus. But somebody knew who mess
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 19: Guthrie was.
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 1: What's analyzed what he just said about the blood, Jeff Gentry.
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 4: So he's exactly right.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 20: Those are ninety degree blood stains, indicating that they were
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 20: created when somebody is standing upright and bleeding. What I
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 20: don't see, though, is any evidence that she was on
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 20: the ground struggling at any point. So if she did
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 20: fall and was injured in some way, I don't see
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 20: any They're called transfer stains, and they look completely different
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 20: than the ninety degree blood drops or the stains that
• 2:35:32
  Speaker 20: you see there. And if she was on the ground
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 20: actively bleeding and trying to support herself, trying to push
• 2:35:39
  Speaker 20: herself back up. You would see evidence of blood transfer
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 20: on the ground. You would see contact stains on the wall,
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 20: maybe where she was trying to reposition herself. He's exactly
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 20: right that the debris is on top of the blood stains,
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 20: so that gives you an element of timing. But I
• 2:35:55
  Speaker 20: do know that the weather there in that area is
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 20: told that it was. It's rather indy on a regular basis,
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 20: and so it's not uncommon for things to blow onto
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 20: the porch. So it's possible that those debris items.
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 1: Were but gravel. I don't say wind blowing rocks or gravel,
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 1: little pieces of gravel. I don't see that. Maybe a leaf.
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 1: So what is your analysis about it? He's saying debris.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 1: It looks like the gravel that was beside the ornamental
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 1: gravel that was beside the wallway.
• 2:36:27
  Speaker 5: There's an era.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 20: So if you look two bricks out from the wall
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 20: or two tiles out from the wall, there's an area
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 20: where there's multiple blood drops and then little tiny individual
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 20: satellite stains. And I talked about this the other day.
• 2:36:40
  Speaker 20: That's it's called a blood into blood pattern or a
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 20: drip pattern, and that's where somebody is stationary and the
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 20: blood dripping into the blood source or the blood pool
• 2:36:51
  Speaker 20: creates those little satellite stains. So that's that's going to
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 20: indicate that she was standing in that position for some
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 20: period of time, dripping blood onto the ground, so actively
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 20: dripping food on the ground. And then next to that,
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 20: coming out one tile, you see what looks like possibly
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 20: a footwear pattern in that. So whoever was assisting her
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 20: or if she was wearing shoes, we'll.
• 2:37:10
  Speaker 1: Hold on, where do you see a footwear pattern?
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 20: A third tile out from the wall, there's several dripstains
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 20: and then what looks like a footwear impression there or
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 20: a partial footwear impression.
• 2:37:22
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, what do you make of the gravel disruption?
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 20: That could definitely be somebody walking through it or kicking it,
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 20: or like your other guest said, you know, if she
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 20: was struggling in some way or maybe even trying to
• 2:37:35
  Speaker 20: get away, that's definitely possible that the gravel was disturbed
• 2:37:40
  Speaker 20: there or where they were trying to help her up
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 20: if she fell, or if she was injured or trying
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 20: to resist in any way. But if she was on
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 20: the ground actively bleeding. You would see different blood patterns
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 20: to indicate that. I don't see anything that to me
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 20: would suggest that she was.
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 1: You know what it indicates to me. Just go with
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 1: me for a moment. Pull back if you don't mind.
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 1: On the picture. I want to see the picture at
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 1: a greater distance. It looks to me like somebody's walking
• 2:38:06
  Speaker 1: beside her and maybe trying to hold her up, and
• 2:38:09
  Speaker 1: they've gotten into the gravel. The gravel is to our right.
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 1: It would be her left holding her maybe under the arm,
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 1: and she's walking forward and somebody is on her left
• 2:38:21
  Speaker 1: in that gravel. We know her cane was in the home,
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 1: so she needs help walking. According to Jeffrey Gentry, who's
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 1: a blood spatter analyst, she's upright and walking based on
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 1: the blood spatter, so we know at least one person,
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 1: if we're reading this correctly, it's helping her out the
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 1: front door. Are there to people another question? Let me
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 1: throw it everyone on the panel. I've gotten a lot
• 2:38:53
  Speaker 1: of questions on social about her pacemaker, and yes, I
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 1: had thought about it. I researched it, I spoke to
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 1: a doctor. There's no GPS in a pacemaker. That's the
• 2:39:06
  Speaker 1: way I understand it, so we're not going to find her.
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 1: Somebody even on Twitter tweeted me the novel idea of
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 1: putting her phone, which was in the home, onto a
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 1: dog and letting the dog with a handler go through
• 2:39:23
  Speaker 1: the area and see if the pacemaker alerted. That would
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 1: be a very rudimentary experiment. It probably would not work.
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 1: With the point is well taken. Is there a way
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 1: to track that pacemaker? Does anybody have an idea? Because
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 1: what I've been told the answer.
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 4: Is no, there's probably not.
• 2:39:46
  Speaker 20: I dealt with pacemakers a lot because during the death
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 20: investigations you have to remove people's pacemakers to have them
• 2:39:52
  Speaker 20: analyzed so the doctor can do it in the office.
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 20: But when somebody is deceased, obviously you don't take them
• 2:39:57
  Speaker 20: to a doctor's office, so you remove their pace maker
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 20: to have it analyzed. But in her case, it sounds
• 2:40:04
  Speaker 20: like it's still working and could possibly connect if her
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 20: device is close enough. But I think it has to
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 20: be within several feed or a pretty close distance to
• 2:40:14
  Speaker 20: her and the pacemaker to get any reliable information from it.
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is, as I understand it, the
• 2:40:21
  Speaker 1: pacemaker feeds information back to let's say the doctor's office
• 2:40:25
  Speaker 1: or the clinic, or the pacemaker administrator. But you have
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 1: to be near the device. The pacemaker doesn't send it
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 1: out across the airwaves. You've got to be near the device,
• 2:40:41
  Speaker 1: like her device would be at home or it would
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 1: be her iPhone that would count. The pacemaker in no
• 2:40:49
  Speaker 1: way is able at this juncture to send information about her,
• 2:40:54
  Speaker 1: whether she's had a heart event or where she is
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 1: now that she's away from the Bluetooth at the home
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 1: cannot trace her through that. Does a pacemaker continue to
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 1: work post mortem? Anybody knows?
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 19: Yes, yes, And they're designed Nancy for to report once
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 19: a day to the doctor's office. Typically, I mean the
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 19: scheduling could be a variance based on the patient's history. However,
• 2:41:25
  Speaker 19: they typically have to be near that device I either
• 2:41:28
  Speaker 19: phone or an Apple watch or something to that effect.
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 19: And of course now we know at least she was
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 19: separated from that device around two twenty seven am or
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 19: to twenty eight am, so she could still that pacemaker
• 2:41:44
  Speaker 19: could still be functioning, but it's not reporting, so she
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 19: very much could be alive.
• 2:41:51
  Speaker 1: So Todd Shipley, you're telling me license plate reader's cell
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 1: phone data dumps Obviously cameras at red lights for those
• 2:42:03
  Speaker 1: early morning hours when there's less traffic. Any other old
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 1: polygraphs on everybody, and if you're not willing to take
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 1: a polygraph to Hay with you, you're now on the suspect list.
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 1: Am I missing anything? Shipley?
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 17: Well, the cameras are going to tell a story. Whether
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 17: it's going to have a complete story, as we know
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 17: it's probably not, but there are gonna be a lot
• 2:42:23
  Speaker 17: of information that they're still trying to go through because
• 2:42:26
  Speaker 17: they're talking hours of data, multiple game.
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 1: And there were cameras in the home, Todd, there were
• 2:42:31
  Speaker 1: cameras in the home. Hey, I want you to hear
• 2:42:34
  Speaker 1: this fact, Dave Mac tell them about the status of
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 1: the cameras at the home.
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 5: What we were told, or what has been reported, is
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 5: that cameras inside the home that were there, and they
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 5: were placed at different angles to cover all areas inside
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 5: the home so that they could be checked on by
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 5: family members in case Nancy were to fall or become incapacitated.
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 5: They could then see inside the home. It has been
• 2:42:55
  Speaker 5: reported that, yeah, they didn't pay for the subscription service,
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 5: and so the cameras didn't record anything other than for
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 5: eight hours and then it just continued to tape over,
• 2:43:05
  Speaker 5: so there is nothing saved. By the time the police
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 5: were involved, you are even gone.
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 1: Nothing and very quickly. Jeffrey, what is the difference in
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 1: the wide pattern of blood drops and the tight groupings?
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 1: Is that where you're saying blood into blood so she's
• 2:43:23
  Speaker 1: standing in one place? Is that what you're saying? There's
• 2:43:27
  Speaker 1: droplets and then there's satellite droplets exactly right, Okay, Chris mcdona,
• 2:43:32
  Speaker 1: other than canine's and if you'll recall Chris mcdona, a
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 1: canine tracked Lacey Peterson from her home all the way
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 1: to the San Francisco Bay and she was in the
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 1: back of a boat we think right just far. So
• 2:43:50
  Speaker 1: if she could be traced that way, I'm wondering why
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 1: cadaver dogs can't at least give me a direction in
• 2:43:57
  Speaker 1: which Nancy went.
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 19: Well, that's where the US Customs and Border Patrol canine teams,
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 19: the BORAC team was brought into this because those dogs
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 19: are trained not only in tracking, but they may also
• 2:44:10
  Speaker 19: have other dogs that are cross trained into the cadaver aspect.
• 2:44:13
  Speaker 19: So they're going to put those dogs in a thirty
• 2:44:15
  Speaker 19: foot lead and they're going to get some type of
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 19: sense inside of the house that belonged to Nancy, typically
• 2:44:23
  Speaker 19: a shirt or rag, a shoe, something.
• 2:44:25
  Speaker 2: Like that, and then they're going to let the dog run.
• 2:44:27
  Speaker 19: So the fact that those dogs are there, Nancy, they're
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 19: really stepping it up because those dogs are really super
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 19: good at what they do.
• 2:44:36
  Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to you, Dave.
• 2:44:38
  Speaker 5: Matt Nancy. Earlier today, tuson TV station KOLD received an
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 5: email having to do with Nancy Guthrie. The FBI is
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 5: working to confirm if the note came from the same
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 5: cinder as the first reporter ransom note referencing Nancy Guthrie,
• 2:44:53
  Speaker 5: and officials caution it could take some time to verify
• 2:44:56
  Speaker 5: due to technical factors. It still hasn't been verified that
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 5: the first note came from someone who may have taken
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 5: Nancy from her home. In a statement, the Pema County
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 5: Sheriff's Department says the FBI and Pma County Sheriff's Department
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 5: are aware of a new message regarding Nancy Guthrie. Investigators
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 5: are actively inspecting the information provided in the message for
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 5: its authenticity. While this is one new piece of information,
• 2:45:20
  Speaker 5: the FBI and the Pema County Sheriff's Department are still
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 5: asking anyone with tips to contact the FBI at one
• 2:45:26
  Speaker 5: eight hundred call FBI. The FBI continues to offer a
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 5: reward of up to fifty thousand dollars for information leading
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 5: to the recovery of Nancy Guthrie and or the arresting
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 5: conviction of anyone involved in her disappearance and Nancy that's
• 2:45:39
  Speaker 5: not all. Investigators are back at Nancy Guthrie's house. They
• 2:45:43
  Speaker 5: are closing down the road and they're moving all media
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 5: out of the area for what they say are investigative purposes.
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about missus
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free two two five five
• 2:46:01
  Speaker 1: three two four. If you wish to remain anonymous five
• 2:46:06
  Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three, there's
• 2:46:10
  Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars reward five two zero eight eight
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 1: two seven four six three, And please again tonight join
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 1: us in prayer for the safe return of Nancy gou Three.
• 2:46:27
  Speaker 1: Good night, friend,