Latest / F*ck, I’m Nearly 50! / Where Do We Start with AI? | Dawid Naude | F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!

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Where Do We Start with AI? | Dawid Naude | F*ck, I’m Nearly 50! · F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!

• 0:00
  Dom Hind: Hi, I'm Dom Hind, and fuck, I'm nearly 50.
• 0:02
  Dom Hind: Actually, I'm 48 and a half, and really starting the countdown now.
• 0:07
  Dom Hind: There's this moment that starts creeping up on us a lot in our 40s.
• 0:11
  Dom Hind: On paper, life looks pretty good, careers ticking along, families growing up, house, responsibilities, routine.
• 0:18
  Dom Hind: But somewhere in the middle of all that, the world starts changing.
• 0:23
  Dom Hind: Not slowly, fast.
• 0:25
  Dom Hind: New technology, new ways of working, new ways of thinking.
• 0:28
  Dom Hind: And suddenly there's this quiet question: Am I keeping up?
• 0:33
  Dom Hind: Because most of us spend decades building careers in a world that made sense.
• 0:38
  Dom Hind: Study hard, work hard, build the career, keep everything moving.
• 0:42
  Dom Hind: And then the rules change.
• 0:44
  Dom Hind: Artificial intelligence is suddenly everywhere, changing how we work, learn, create, and even think.
• 0:50
  Dom Hind: For some people, that's exciting.
• 0:52
  Dom Hind: For others, it's a bit overwhelming.
• 0:54
  Dom Hind: And for a lot of people, it still feels like something to figure out later.
• 0:59
  Dom Hind: But for others, and I'd put myself in that camp, it's already part of daily life.
• 1:04
  Dom Hind: A thinking partner, a creative tool, a way of solving problems faster.
• 1:08
  Dom Hind: And the gap between those two groups is getting bigger fast.
• 1:12
  Dom Hind: Which brings me to today's guest.
• 1:13
  Dom Hind: Darwood Nord is one of Australia's leading voices on artificial intelligence and the founder of Pathfinder, an AI innovation studio helping organizations actually use AI in the real world.
• 1:24
  Dom Hind: But what makes Darwood interesting isn't that he just understands the tech, he understands what this shift means for humans.
• 1:31
  Dom Hind: Because this isn't just about faster software, it's about something much bigger.
• 1:36
  Dom Hind: For most of history, intelligence was scarce.
• 1:39
  Dom Hind: You had to find experts, read books, study for years.
• 1:42
  Dom Hind: Now it's everywhere.
• 1:43
  Dom Hind: You can open your laptop and collaborate with something that can help you write, think, analyze, learn.
• 1:49
  Dom Hind: So if intelligence is no longer scarce, what happens next?
• 1:55
  Dom Hind: Because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing?
• 1:59
  Dom Hind: For most of human history, intelligence was something uniquely human.
• 2:13
  Dom Hind: If you wanted ideas, insight, or advice, you asked a person.
• 2:17
  Dom Hind: A teacher, a colleague, a mentor.
• 2:20
  Dom Hind: But suddenly we're living in a world where intelligence is available on demand.
• 2:25
  Dom Hind: You can open your laptop and collaborate with a machine that can help you write, design, analyze, brainstorm, and learn.
• 2:33
  Dom Hind: And what's fascinating is how quickly people are adapting.
• 2:38
  Dom Hind: For some people, AI still feels like a novelty.
• 2:41
  Dom Hind: Definitely not me.
• 2:43
  Dom Hind: For others, it's already becoming part of daily life.
• 2:46
  Dom Hind: A research assistant, a creative partner, a thinking tool, which raises some fascinating questions.
• 2:53
  Dom Hind: If we suddenly have access to intelligence on demand, what does that do to the way we think?
• 3:01
  Dom Hind: How do we learn?
• 3:02
  Dom Hind: How do we work?
• 3:03
  Dom Hind: And what does it mean to be human in a world where intelligence is no longer scarce?
• 3:10
  Dom Hind: Today's guest spends his life helping organizations navigate exactly these questions.
• 3:18
  Dom Hind: David Nord is the founder of Pathfinder and one of Australia's leading voices in helping companies understand how to work with artificial intelligence in thoughtful and practical ways.
• 3:55
  Dawid Naude: Like because a lot of the use of AI generally by most of the population, it's not, it is helpful, but it's not as if their whole world is completely changed because of AI.
• 4:08
  Dawid Naude: A lot of the daily use of most of the population is somewhat, I don't know, it's not that deliberate.
• 4:16
  Dawid Naude: It's fun, sure, definitely.
• 4:18
  Dawid Naude: It's a lot of fun.
• 4:19
  Dawid Naude: But I think the probably it would be mostly annoying if they didn't have if they weren't using AI and they had been using it.
• 4:28
  Dawid Naude: It's not as if all of a sudden their life collapses because of it and they can't do what they what they couldn't that they're not able to really function.
• 4:35
  Dawid Naude: So, but there's a big shift that's happening right now where AI is much more than simply kind of an advisor.
• 4:43
  Dawid Naude: Actually, it can control the computer for you now, it can control the mouse, it can take action, it can be scheduled, it can monitor.
• 4:51
  Dawid Naude: And so you think of people who are doing their tax returns at the moment who actually know how to use AI, not just like the surface level things, they're they're probably gonna get a bigger tax return than those who don't.
• 5:05
  Dawid Naude: And next year they'd probably be kind of clueless without AI if they're if they're if they had to do it again.
• 5:11
  Dom Hind: What happens if you lost AI?
• 5:12
  Dom Hind: How would you feel in your day-to-day?
• 5:15
  Dawid Naude: Well, given my whole employment and income comes from A, I'd probably be broke.
• 5:19
  Dawid Naude: But um So I I firstly, I it is fun.
• 5:28
  Dawid Naude: Like it is fundamentally fun.
• 5:30
  Dawid Naude: Now, that fun is not yes, there's the actual fun, fun part with like kids and family in that where let's say it's a daughter's birthday party and you get it to create a song which has for Pass the Possible and it has each of the attendees' names as part of the song.
• 5:46
  Dawid Naude: Like you know, that's kind of cool and fun.
• 5:48
  Dawid Naude: But I think part of the most fun part of it is how you can do all these things that um you couldn't do before.
• 5:56
  Dawid Naude: Not just do it faster, but like you and I were talking about vibe coding before.
• 6:00
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Dawid Naude: And just how just how powerful that is, um, and how we always had to compromise with software.
• 6:06
  Dawid Naude: Uh using these subscriptions that do things kind of how we want it, but not entirely.
• 6:14
  Dawid Naude: And you know, paying like 40, 50 bucks a month for software that does one thing, like a Kanban board or something like that, in kind of an average way.
• 6:23
  Dawid Naude: But now you can get it to do it your way, exactly how you want.
• 6:27
  Dawid Naude: And but just the whole, yes, it's useful, but the act of creating it is so empowering and so much fun.
• 6:34
  Dom Hind: Yeah, it and I I absolutely agree with that.
• 6:36
  Dom Hind: Having managed teams and teams of developers, um, trying to get a developer to do exactly what you want takes time.
• 6:47
  Dom Hind: Whereas using AI, you can customize it and you can control it and you can actually see what that output is.
• 6:55
  Dom Hind: And it's it is really empowering.
• 6:57
  Dawid Naude: And and with the developer, I mean, the developers were as frustrated with us as we were with them because we couldn't really articulate exactly what we wanted.
• 7:06
  Dawid Naude: So it'll be like, I want you to do this, I wanted the software to behave this way, but it was mostly I'll know it when I see it.
• 7:13
  Dawid Naude: Like, and when they completed some work and shipped it back to you, you'd go you then start using it.
• 7:19
  Dawid Naude: Then you go, oh no, I also need these other three things.
• 7:21
  Dawid Naude: And so that whole loop took forever.
• 7:24
  Dom Hind: Yes.
• 7:24
  Dawid Naude: Um, and let's say you still did have a developer that actually built the thing for you.
• 7:30
  Dawid Naude: You could you could do all the prototyping, design, testing, everything like that before you hand it to them.
• 7:35
  Dawid Naude: Um, I want it, I want something that looks exactly like this, behaves like this.
• 7:39
  Dawid Naude: So there's lots of different parts of the life cycle that I can help.
• 7:42
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I I agree.
• 7:43
  Dom Hind: And I think the cutting down the time frame, that's a massive thing as well.
• 7:48
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, just that whole I like that whole idea or problem to idea to concept, like that, that going from um weeks or months to an hour or two because you're just sitting in front of it and you're iterating.
• 8:02
  Dawid Naude: And these days what I'm doing is um uh like we're busy doing a new strategy at work and I was trying to find a way to visualize it to show the rest of the team.
• 8:13
  Dawid Naude: And um I spent a long time, um, this was with Chat GPD chatting with it, but then I asked it, can you generate five different images that each represent um the new strategy?
• 8:26
  Dawid Naude: It has like six, six dimensions um as like a different way of visualizing it.
• 8:30
  Dawid Naude: But that was just so and I said, can you make it look a bit hand-drawn so that it shows it's like a work in progress?
• 8:37
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, but like seeing five different concepts, going, Oh, I love how that one looks there.
• 8:43
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 8:43
  Dawid Naude: Or maybe I like most of this one, but I really like the way it showed the icons of the fourth one, and then you kind of blend them together.
• 8:51
  Dawid Naude: Something like that is is hugely powerful.
• 8:54
  Dom Hind: Yeah, it's it is really powerful.
• 8:56
  Dom Hind: Um, AI has technically existed for decades for decades, but suddenly it feels like it is everywhere.
• 9:04
  Dom Hind: Why does it feel like it's here right now?
• 9:07
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, so AI has, I mean, firstly, it depends on the definition.
• 9:10
  Dawid Naude: Um so you could borderline argue that spell check is AI, right?
• 9:15
  Dawid Naude: Um yeah, or grammar or yeah, but there's there's so many things, but um AI, the way we use AI today, that is actually very new.
• 9:25
  Dawid Naude: So um that's all from a technology called a large language model, which was theory in 2017.
• 9:33
  Dawid Naude: It was a white paper that was published called Attention Is All You Need by a bunch of researchers, primarily from Google's research lab.
• 9:40
  Dawid Naude: Um the technology behind the large language model that has been around for a long for a long time, neural networks and deep learning.
• 9:47
  Dawid Naude: But um it's hard, it's actually, I'd say the way AI kind of actually showed up in most of our lives before large language models was like Google Maps.
• 9:57
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 9:58
  Dawid Naude: You know, it is it but you couldn't get Google Maps to, you know, critique a strategy paper for you.
• 10:05
  Dawid Naude: It could only do one very narrow thing very, very specifically and very well.
• 10:10
  Dawid Naude: And that was always the indicator, well, AI will be something that is not just specific to one task, it can do lots of things very, very well.
• 10:19
  Dawid Naude: Um, or even okay, it doesn't even need to do it very well.
• 10:22
  Dawid Naude: And that's where large language models um just kind of arrived.
• 10:27
  Dawid Naude: And so you had um you had this theory of the large language model, um, of the specifically the transformer in it that made it happen in 2017.
• 10:37
  Dawid Naude: And then 2020 onwards, you had um a lot of researchers, but particularly OpenAI, um, with their first GPT model, second GPT model.
• 10:47
  Dawid Naude: But then we had ChatGPT be released, which was simply meant to be a demo, just a demonstration for um their GPT platform that software engineers would use.
• 11:02
  Dawid Naude: But people didn't know it existed.
• 11:04
  Dawid Naude: And they said, well, when people log into um our OpenAI platform and play with our API, there was a little chat feature there where a developer could just put something in and they could see what the response is, and they could see that this was really, really well used.
• 11:19
  Dawid Naude: And so they thought, well, why don't we make this publicly available so that people can play with um the API chat with GPT, chat GPT, to sell the API.
• 11:30
  Dawid Naude: So to advertise it, but then it became the product.
• 11:33
  Dawid Naude: Like that's what happens.
• 11:35
  Dawid Naude: And um, I was really fortunate actually to be in San Francisco at OpenAI with Sam Altman about a month ago, and I asked him a question around um what's the long-term game here?
• 11:45
  Dawid Naude: What should we all be doing to kind of win in three years' time?
• 11:50
  Dawid Naude: And he paused for a very long time, and that was the example that he gave around uh actually, he thinks that tactics become strategy.
• 11:58
  Dawid Naude: It's more the small things that you just stumble upon as you're pursuing some bigger strategy that usually ends up becoming the strategy.
• 12:07
  Dawid Naude: And that was the example he used of ChatGPT.
• 12:09
  Dom Hind: But it it is because it when you are like when you're vibe coding, when you are using it to try and do deep thinking, yeah, it does spit out new things that you don't normally think of.
• 12:19
  Dom Hind: And those little things can then become the seed to something bigger.
• 12:23
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, definitely.
• 12:24
  Dawid Naude: And you go go down tangents and all of that and explore wide, and then it's just crazy how how many hours disappear as well.
• 12:33
  Dawid Naude: Like I feel like I'm definitely, I think most people who use AI a lot, they're working more than they've ever worked before.
• 12:40
  Dom Hind: I couldn't agree more.
• 12:40
  Dawid Naude: They're they're just they're doing a lot more stuff.
• 12:42
  Dawid Naude: Sometimes they're they're not completing a lot of stuff.
• 12:45
  Dawid Naude: I mean, I'm definitely guilty of that, and it's probably a stage, it's just a stage thing where we're at right now.
• 12:51
  Dawid Naude: It's we're getting so excited about building a website, but then we're not actually publishing that website.
• 12:57
  Dawid Naude: You gotta ship and so um, and then anybody who has actually shipped like some product that they've built or website, you know that the last the last um like 90% of of the work that you do on that is actually removing things and just sharpening and polishing all the things that you actually want out there.
• 13:17
  Dawid Naude: Um yeah.
• 13:18
  Dom Hind: Yeah, okay.
• 13:18
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm definitely guilty of that.
• 13:20
  Dom Hind: Because you just your brain goes, oh my god, what about this?
• 13:23
  Dom Hind: What about this?
• 13:23
  Dom Hind: But you don't ever publish it.
• 13:26
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 13:27
  Dom Hind: Well, I have published a few things, but that's okay.
• 13:30
  Dom Hind: Um for most of history, intelligence was scarce.
• 13:33
  Dom Hind: You had to find experts, study, read books, and now suddenly we have intelligence on demand.
• 13:40
  Dom Hind: Do you think we've fully grasped how profound this shift is?
• 13:46
  Dawid Naude: I don't think we have.
• 13:47
  Dawid Naude: Um, and I think also just how different it is today to um a month ago before the release of GPT 5.6 and ChatGPD work and like uh Fable.
• 14:04
  Dawid Naude: It's just it just feels again we've just shifted again.
• 14:09
  Dawid Naude: I think um one of the big shifts that's happened in the last month is just how powerful it is at doing the execution for you.
• 14:17
  Dom Hind: So that that has been game changer.
• 14:20
  Dawid Naude: Absolutely.
• 14:20
  Dawid Naude: So in the example of the website, right?
• 14:22
  Dawid Naude: So let's say you're somebody who's never published a website before, and then you sit and you um use clawed code or or codecs from OpenAI or just even a chat GPD work, and you build a whole website.
• 14:36
  Dawid Naude: There's a lot of websites that exist there, but they've never been published because it's just too hard and people aren't sure, okay.
• 14:43
  Dawid Naude: Well, how do I get a domain?
• 14:45
  Dawid Naude: How do I get a web host?
• 14:48
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, how do I do DNS registration and all of that?
• 14:51
  Dawid Naude: But because these platforms can now control your computer, control the mouse, control the browser, just saying to it, okay, I've built this amazing thing, but I don't know, I actually want to host this now and I have a website.
• 15:03
  Dawid Naude: What do I do next?
• 15:04
  Dawid Naude: And it going, well, first let's let's get a domain for you.
• 15:08
  Dawid Naude: I'll go to GoDaddy and I'll search.
• 15:11
  Dawid Naude: And then and then it'll go, okay, well, let me now go and um get a host uh for the web space, and and then it'll say, Oh, I'm on this web page now.
• 15:20
  Dawid Naude: Can you just um create a password and then let me know when you've done that and I'll take over again.
• 15:26
  Dawid Naude: For somebody who's not technical, um, which is most of the world, yeah, like that last mile is terrifying.
• 15:33
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Dawid Naude: Like you're talking about DNS configurations and all this, but now AI just being able to do that for you, I think is an is an absolutely massive um shift forward.
• 15:42
  Dawid Naude: Even something as simple as, oh, here's all the add-ons that they recommend for your basket.
• 15:48
  Dawid Naude: And AI saying, no, you don't need those things.
• 15:51
  Dawid Naude: The odds of that yeah, you needing any of those things are that's not gonna not necessary.
• 15:54
  Dom Hind: Um Yeah, it's interesting.
• 15:56
  Dom Hind: So I use Lovable a lot.
• 15:57
  Dom Hind: So but I use I know you're open AI, but I use Claude and Lovable a lot together.
• 16:04
  Dom Hind: And even just the connection to the domain name, like all of that is just so easy now.
• 16:09
  Dom Hind: Like so easy.
• 16:11
  Dawid Naude: And all these platforms, it's not sometimes people ask, oh, do you should use Chat GPD instead of Claude or Lovable instead of um sort of other platforms?
• 16:21
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:22
  Dawid Naude: It's it is in some some ways like uh like talking about which gym you should go to.
• 16:28
  Dom Hind: Well, that's it.
• 16:29
  Dom Hind: It's whatever and everyone.
• 16:30
  Dom Hind: Just go to the gym.
• 16:31
  Dawid Naude: Use the set of dumbbells under your table.
• 16:33
  Dawid Naude: That's that's gonna be the thing that that determines whether you're fit or not, not like the not the brand of like not if it's Lulie Lamon or like North Face shorts that you wear.
• 16:43
  Dawid Naude: Like that's actually like the act of using it is gonna be the difference between um getting success or not.
• 16:51
  Dom Hind: Yeah, and you know what, even when you do use it, you then do understand what the differences and nuances are between them.
• 16:56
  Dom Hind: So then you work out what your preference is as soon as you start using and playing with it.
• 17:02
  Dom Hind: So it is, yeah.
• 17:04
  Dom Hind: User, just try.
• 17:06
  Dawid Naude: Pick pick a problem and just and if you don't know where to start, ask it.
• 17:10
  Dawid Naude: Like say, hey, I've been told I should try using you.
• 17:14
  Dawid Naude: Like, what do I do?
• 17:14
  Dawid Naude: What do I do?
• 17:16
  Dom Hind: Do you know what the the best thing that I did while we're on holidays was I actually asked Claude and said, I've been using you for a long time now.
• 17:23
  Dom Hind: Can you please tell me how I can use you better?
• 17:27
  Dom Hind: And it was amazing.
• 17:28
  Dom Hind: It got me to set up projects and put in all of my files into projects, make sure that I had, you know, like it actually tells you how to use it better.
• 17:37
  Dom Hind: And it was game-changing.
• 17:40
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, and even what you said there, that's probably like one there's a couple of like top tips like that, like using projects that make a phenomenal difference to the output.
• 17:47
  Dawid Naude: If you did something like that, um I've been using for a long time, how could I use you better?
• 17:53
  Dawid Naude: But can you also have a look at my calendar for the next few weeks and see how I should use you um in the next couple of weeks?
• 18:01
  Dawid Naude: And it'll go, well, I can see that you've got um a sales proposal call in two weeks' time.
• 18:07
  Dawid Naude: Um, I know that you use me to research and all these things.
• 18:10
  Dawid Naude: How about you use me to actually create the proposal itself?
• 18:13
  Dawid Naude: And you know, that that type of thing where it strings that context together, it's very good.
• 18:17
  Dom Hind: I think the context, yeah, bringing it into your life rather than just using it as an external tool is a great thing to do as well.
• 18:23
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:24
  Dom Hind: Particularly with what's happened, you know, over the last few months with how integrated it can be.
• 18:30
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, and also uh just pick one tool and use it as much as possible because it does uh get to know you.
• 18:38
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 18:38
  Dawid Naude: Um, that's been one big advancement in the last year is uh how good it is at um it's getting just gotten so much better at learning about you, forming uh forming an internal memory about you, um reading through other chats that you have, and then also as it's connected now into email and calendar and things like that, um it's really good.
• 19:01
  Dawid Naude: Even now, how it will say, hey, can I um it'll propose when you open it up um suggested things like can I help you prepare for the podcast this afternoon?
• 19:10
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Dom Hind: Yeah, can it?
• 19:11
  Dom Hind: Can it be me?
• 19:14
  Dom Hind: Um whenever new technology arrives, people worry about jobs disappearing.
• 19:22
  Dom Hind: Which jobs do you think will change the most over the next decor decade and where do you think the biggest opportunities are?
• 19:31
  Dawid Naude: So there's if okay.
• 19:37
  Dawid Naude: So jobs where there's no execution, just advice, that needs to be re-looked at what are they actually as in professional professional services.
• 19:50
  Dom Hind: Professional services.
• 19:51
  Dawid Naude: So but it's also looking at what is it that they were actually buying from you.
• 19:55
  Dawid Naude: So if you take like a financial advisor, AI is definitely going to, there's no question that AI can do a better job than that financial advisor at crafting a really good financial plan, battle testing and all of that.
• 20:10
  Dawid Naude: But I'd I'd question whether that was the reason why the person that engaged the financial advisor in the first place.
• 20:18
  Dawid Naude: I actually think it was like trust.
• 20:21
  Dom Hind: Trust is 100% trust.
• 20:23
  Dawid Naude: And and going like, I'm overwhelmed.
• 20:25
  Dawid Naude: I want a person that I can talk to about this, and I want a person to tell me I've I've spoken with a hundred clients in your situation, and I know that you've made some financial decisions that you might regret, but you're actually okay.
• 20:38
  Dawid Naude: And let's um let's first figure out where you're trying to get to.
• 20:41
  Dawid Naude: Let's have an honest assessment about where you're at right now, what you're willing to change, what you're not willing to change, um, and let's let's focus on that.
• 20:50
  Dawid Naude: And I actually I think it's the same for a lawyer.
• 20:52
  Dawid Naude: Like, ChatGPT can definitely be a fantastic lawyer.
• 20:55
  Dom Hind: Like uh, but it's it writes amazing legal documents.
• 20:58
  Dom Hind: Yeah, but you've been sued a lot.
• 21:00
  Dawid Naude: No, I'm kidding.
• 21:01
  Dawid Naude: I've been suing a lot, no.
• 21:03
  Dawid Naude: But but you you want to sit down with a lawyer over a over a coffee and like and you want the conversation to be about I know that this is a tough negotiation, but let's actually talk through how we're gonna win this thing.
• 21:17
  Dawid Naude: Now, if you are a financial advisor or a lawyer, if you are arguing why you're better than AI and why AI will never come for your job, well, then every time AI improves, you become more desperate.
• 21:30
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 21:31
  Dawid Naude: But if if you just change your mindset and your conversations with your prospects and clients are we're gonna come up with a strategy, then we're going to battle test that strategy with the best AI tools that are available at the moment.
• 21:44
  Dawid Naude: That means every time AI improves, you're you improve, your whole service improves.
• 21:49
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Dawid Naude: So you ride, you, you rise with the tide.
• 21:52
  Dawid Naude: Um and so sometimes it is just a mindset thing.
• 21:55
  Dawid Naude: Um I think execution is going to be critical.
• 21:59
  Dawid Naude: So Think of um management consultants that all that they do is produce a PowerPoint deck and then wash their hands of whether it works or not.
• 22:07
  Dawid Naude: Those those days I I think that they were gone a long time ago.
• 22:11
  Dom Hind: Um but now they're now they're definitely just announced they're sacking a thousand people.
• 22:16
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, and so and that's like all of the big four are are they've had all problems in the last couple of years.
• 22:23
  Dawid Naude: And you know, outside of them, all the listed ones have had um huge impact to their share price and that and I think um and that's where I think AI has also now really moved up a notch from it's gone from just being an advisor to it actually being able to do it for you.
• 22:39
  Dawid Naude: I don't think that the bell curve is ever gonna change.
• 22:42
  Dawid Naude: So I think you're always gonna have the people that take shortcuts, cheat, or lazy.
• 22:46
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, you're always gonna have that small group.
• 22:48
  Dawid Naude: They're not going away.
• 22:49
  Dawid Naude: You're always gonna have the group in the middle that um kind of do their job, um live for the weekend, all of that.
• 22:59
  Dawid Naude: And then you're gonna have the the top end of the bell curve where they're gonna leverage this to go to the complete next level and it's gonna energize them and excite them and all that.
• 23:08
  Dawid Naude: So I don't think that's gonna change.
• 23:09
  Dawid Naude: There is gonna be definitely a systemic shift, but we've also been dealing with that in Australia for ages.
• 23:15
  Dawid Naude: You think of all the all the bigger organizations that are trying to um offshore uh staff and all that.
• 23:23
  Dawid Naude: But I think one thing that a lot of people miss is that uh most of Australia is employed by by small businesses.
• 23:30
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 23:30
  Dawid Naude: Like it's something like 56%.
• 23:32
  Dawid Naude: I'm gonna botch the figure, but it's a huge.
• 23:33
  Dawid Naude: I think it's higher, exactly.
• 23:37
  Dom Hind: Exactly.
• 23:38
  Dawid Naude: There's not a single small business.
• 23:40
  Dawid Naude: There's not literally not one single small business in Australia that says the number one thing we need next year is less people.
• 23:47
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Dawid Naude: Like there's like there's not there's not there's literally not one.
• 23:51
  Dom Hind: Well, there's how a trade, how is a trade can like, you know, it's booming still, even with the downturn in the economy.
• 24:00
  Dom Hind: It's still booming for the trades.
• 24:02
  Dom Hind: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:03
  Dawid Naude: And um you think of how many there's probably excellent tradespeople out there that can't be found because they've got a terrible website or no website, that are paying too much tax because they don't use a good accountant, that have contracts that don't protect them or their clients appropriately, um, because they're you know they're they're one man in a van.
• 24:24
  Dawid Naude: And um that just think some of my electrician friends.
• 24:27
  Dawid Naude: But the um uh now they can.
• 24:29
  Dawid Naude: They can actually get like expert advice and all of that.
• 24:32
  Dom Hind: Um and a presence.
• 24:34
  Dawid Naude: Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
• 24:35
  Dawid Naude: Uh for sure.
• 24:36
  Dawid Naude: They can they can get a website up and running, they can get a um um a social media campaign, they can there's so much that they can do.
• 24:45
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 24:45
  Dom Hind: I do think even coming back just to the professional services people, because there's been a lot of talk about how there is going to be a massive change in the way that they deliver or what they're doing.
• 24:56
  Dom Hind: But if you become a concierge where you are the interface to what the people need to do with the trust, with building that you know, that that relationship, there is still a massive role.
• 25:11
  Dom Hind: You won't be selling time and materials anymore, but you will be selling the value and the knowledge that you have.
• 25:18
  Dawid Naude: People want um service providers that they can just leave to get the job done and they focus on putting out a fire that that person can't get done.
• 25:30
  Dawid Naude: And I think um whilst there are a lot of people that are vibe coding and building their own software and websites and all of that, I think there's a lot of people that are happy to just get somebody else, yeah, somebody else to do it for them whilst they spend time with customers and and all that.
• 25:45
  Dawid Naude: But I also think there's there's so many there's so many businesses or software platforms even out there that don't exist today because the economics just don't stack up.
• 25:54
  Dawid Naude: Um so you think of a think of like some kind of um CRM um management platform or something for managing dry cleaning businesses.
• 26:06
  Dom Hind: Yep.
• 26:07
  Dawid Naude: Like there's no Silicon Valley company that would focus on doing that because there's just the market's not big enough to justify it and pay for it and all of that.
• 26:16
  Dawid Naude: Whereas now, if you did run a dry cleaning service, you could actually vibe code, literally, you could do this, create your own platform that helps you manage that.
• 26:26
  Dawid Naude: Now you can sell that platform to all the other dry cleaners that will be happy to pay for that platform because it does exactly what they needed to do in your language.
• 26:35
  Dawid Naude: Um like it's it's perfect.
• 26:37
  Dawid Naude: So I think all of the new software and new businesses and entrepreneurship and all of that, that's what I that's what I get really excited about.
• 26:45
  Dom Hind: It's interesting.
• 26:45
  Dom Hind: So I redid that for our agency, and my husband's like, you need to go and market this, and I'm like, nah, I just can't be bothered.
• 26:52
  Dom Hind: Like I just did it because it was something I was interested in.
• 26:55
  Dom Hind: I don't want to be selling software, but it is, it gives you that flexibility to be able to do whatever you need, customize it specifically for you.
• 27:04
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, and also you think of all the invisible work for you think of um think of teachers, you think of um tennis coaches, you think of they're on the tennis court all day and then they finish work, um, and now they've got to go do all their invoicing, respond to all the queries, do all the planning for the next week and until 11 p.m.
• 27:29
  Dawid Naude: and then get up the next day and do it all again.
• 27:31
  Dawid Naude: So I just think those people that I just think there's enormous opportunity for people to get get a lot of time back to focus on the things that matter.
• 27:41
  Dom Hind: Enormous opportunity for humans.
• 27:43
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, literally.
• 27:45
  Dom Hind: Literally for everyone.
• 27:46
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 27:47
  Dom Hind: Um one thing that you talk about a lot is the importance of tinkering with AI tools.
• 27:53
  Dom Hind: Do you think the people who thrive in this next era won't necessarily be the smartest, but will be the ones who have actually dipped their toe in the mark in the water?
• 28:05
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, definitely.
• 28:06
  Dawid Naude: I think in some ways the the core rules of innovation aren't gonna be different.
• 28:10
  Dawid Naude: It's gonna be around um those who actually get their hands dirty, um, who are optimists.
• 28:19
  Dawid Naude: So they go they'll go, let's actually think there's something here, let's try this.
• 28:24
  Dawid Naude: Um not all of it's gonna work, but let's try this, let's build something.
• 28:28
  Dawid Naude: But the only this is the reason why this is more important than ever is um it's a very strange technology, it's very weird.
• 28:36
  Dawid Naude: Like we've never had a technology like this before that um can kind of do everything, and but it's just a simple prompt input.
• 28:44
  Dawid Naude: Um and so to actually know how it works properly, go to that next level of depth, you know, 90 99% of people are never gonna go past like a millimeter deep with AI.
• 28:56
  Dawid Naude: Like they're not gonna even go to projects in Claude, as you mentioned, there, which makes a huge difference.
• 29:00
  Dawid Naude: They're not gonna know exactly which models to use which task and all of that.
• 29:05
  Dawid Naude: It's not hard to do those things, but most won't.
• 29:07
  Dawid Naude: Um, anybody who tinkers figures that stuff out, they're gonna be miles ahead of the rest.
• 29:13
  Dawid Naude: But it's still gonna require the guts, particularly in entrepreneurship, to do something, take a risk, market it, get it out there, uh, convince a customer to pay for it and put their trust in you.
• 29:28
  Dawid Naude: So those those fundamentals are still gonna be the same.
• 29:31
  Dawid Naude: I just think the opportunity is gonna be so much bigger because a lot of those hurdles are gonna be removed for many um entrepreneurs that wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise because they don't have access to good legal or marketing or something like that.
• 29:47
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I I agree with that.
• 29:48
  Dom Hind: Um idea I heard you talk about was AI being a universal tutor.
• 29:54
  Dom Hind: Um, do you think this technology could fundamentally change how people learn throughout their lives?
• 30:02
  Dawid Naude: Absolutely.
• 30:02
  Dawid Naude: I think that's probably number one reason why I'm such an AI optimist, possibly naively.
• 30:08
  Dawid Naude: Naively.
• 30:08
  Dawid Naude: I'll be the first to admit that.
• 30:10
  Dawid Naude: Um but I mean there's been studies before saying that optimists are luckier than um than people who are cynics just because they try more things and it's just uh uh but I I think the education side is so the so I think of um I wasn't a very good student.
• 30:29
  Dawid Naude: Um I really struggled with attention back then, they just call you lazy these days.
• 30:33
  Dawid Naude: It's like ADHD, but they just call you lazy back then.
• 30:37
  Dom Hind: Or distracted.
• 30:39
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:39
  Dawid Naude: It's uh every every single report card I ever had was the same.
• 30:42
  Dawid Naude: It's like David's really smart, he just needs to learn how to pay attention.
• 30:45
  Dawid Naude: I was like, I wish that more for me than you do.
• 30:48
  Dawid Naude: Um I just couldn't.
• 30:50
  Dawid Naude: And so I had a I had a fantastic maths tutor that I used to meet for an hour each week.
• 30:54
  Dawid Naude: Um, she was amazing.
• 30:56
  Dawid Naude: But um not many people can afford that privilege.
• 31:00
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:00
  Dawid Naude: And that's one hour a week for one subject.
• 31:03
  Dawid Naude: AI is so powerful as a as an academic um tutor, but also this is this is this is a little bit tougher and there's more nuance, but definitely kind of as a mentor just to like vent to and and things like that.
• 31:20
  Dawid Naude: But let's just let's just box in the teaching and academics first.
• 31:24
  Dawid Naude: You could go to it, um, I've got an 11-year-old, and he could say to it, teach me quantum physics in the style, like in the style of Mario Kart.
• 31:38
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Dawid Naude: And it will make it relatable for an 11-year-old.
• 31:43
  Dawid Naude: It will use Mario Kart as examples of explaining it so it becomes very relatable.
• 31:48
  Dawid Naude: Um, and he'll be able to say, uh, okay, so does it work like this?
• 31:55
  Dawid Naude: And it'll come back and say, look, you're you're 80% of the way there.
• 31:59
  Dawid Naude: These concepts you explained were right.
• 32:02
  Dawid Naude: This 20% is not quite right.
• 32:04
  Dawid Naude: Think of it more like that way.
• 32:06
  Dawid Naude: Doesn't need to give you the answer, it can help you.
• 32:08
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, it is mind-blowing.
• 32:10
  Dawid Naude: And now also with um uh with the newer visualization features.
• 32:15
  Dawid Naude: Oh, yeah.
• 32:16
  Dawid Naude: Like if you're let's say you're wanting to understand how tides work.
• 32:19
  Dawid Naude: First AI was great at that on text, and then it was great at it at voice, so now I could just talk to it.
• 32:25
  Dawid Naude: But now what it does really well is well, yes, it could create um the visualizations and diagrams using image generator, it could do that very well.
• 32:33
  Dawid Naude: But now it's really good at creating little tools that would be like an animation with little dials that you could move up and down and show you how like the move the moon moves and the waves are drawn to it, and that's completely engaging.
• 32:50
  Dawid Naude: I mean, that's the whole concept of flow.
• 32:52
  Dawid Naude: Um, that flow state is where your the challenge and your ability to meet the challenge kind of intersect at this perfect point.
• 33:01
  Dawid Naude: If it's too challenging, then it's anxiety, if it's not challenging enough, it's boredom.
• 33:05
  Dawid Naude: Um but AI will always be able to match where you're at.
• 33:08
  Dawid Naude: For us, it's actually made in something, in some ways, worse.
• 33:12
  Dawid Naude: So, like Liam, my son, he's very bored at school in maths and science.
• 33:16
  Dawid Naude: Those are the things that he thrives.
• 33:18
  Dawid Naude: So, what we've done at home is we've um gotten him to use some AI tools as a bit of a teacher-tutor and extend him on those things, but it's now put him even further ahead at school with those things and made him more bored.
• 33:31
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, probably.
• 33:32
  Dawid Naude: Um but I think one of the big misconceptions of school is that it is um primarily education.
• 33:38
  Dawid Naude: Like it's not true.
• 33:40
  Dawid Naude: Education is part of it, it's also part socialization.
• 33:42
  Dawid Naude: Absolutely.
• 33:43
  Dawid Naude: It's daycare.
• 33:44
  Dom Hind: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:44
  Dawid Naude: So the parents can go to school, can go to work.
• 33:46
  Dom Hind: Yep.
• 33:47
  Dawid Naude: Um, and so I think that schools need to be completely redesigned.
• 33:50
  Dawid Naude: There should be a couple of hours where it is just them and their AI um teacher.
• 33:57
  Dawid Naude: It takes the load off the teacher as well, like needing to know everything about chemistry.
• 34:01
  Dom Hind: Every child is different.
• 34:02
  Dom Hind: Absolutely different.
• 34:03
  Dom Hind: Every child is different, and everyone has different learning styles and different ways of staying engaged.
• 34:10
  Dom Hind: So even like over the holidays, I got my kids' report cards, and I took the report cards from the last three times that they had, uploaded them, and then created a tutor for them based on where they were actually needing the help.
• 34:26
  Dom Hind: But if that's what it needs, it needs to be that customized learning for them so that they can actually be getting ahead.
• 34:34
  Dawid Naude: Definitely.
• 34:35
  Dawid Naude: And you just think, I mean, all of us can think to a teacher that really had an impact with us at school.
• 34:41
  Dawid Naude: It was never really because they were so intelligent.
• 34:44
  Dawid Naude: It was actually it was something around their warmth.
• 34:48
  Dom Hind: Um also the connection, the inspiration, the connection.
• 34:51
  Dawid Naude: So let's let's make teachers do that, like uh where it's more around uh mentoring and inspiration and guidance and not trying to force somebody who's not that good with like economics, be an inspiring economics teacher for year 12s, right?
• 35:09
  Dawid Naude: Like I I think now some of this could be way off because I'm not a teacher, but like I'm just I just know how powerful this stuff is at being a teacher for any age.
• 35:19
  Dom Hind: Yeah, like yeah, and even coming back to your the view on being a mentor, whether it's business or whatever, the great thing about AI now is you can actually get it to think as if you are, you know, whoever you want it to be.
• 35:33
  Dom Hind: I know you love Richard Branson, so you know it could be think about that you are Richard Branson, give me the advice or give me something.
• 35:42
  Dom Hind: This is a situation, how could I handle it?
• 35:44
  Dom Hind: Like it is such a great way of framing it.
• 35:47
  Dawid Naude: It is.
• 35:47
  Dawid Naude: Um, I I think that's one of the best ways anybody can use it is as a bit of a coach.
• 35:56
  Dawid Naude: Let's say it's not even a coach, just even a sounding board, a reflection tool.
• 36:00
  Dawid Naude: Um this is where the more you use it, uh, the better it will be because it'll start picking up patterns in your in your thinking um of how you deal with it.
• 36:10
  Dawid Naude: It did this for me actually very recently, just a few days ago.
• 36:14
  Dawid Naude: So I have um I have a project on my Chat GPT um called, it's just called resilience.
• 36:20
  Dawid Naude: And so it's um any content that I find is really good around mental and physical resilience.
• 36:26
  Dawid Naude: Of there's a couple of um articles that I have grounded in there, but it's where I sometimes do a very long conversation with it to um if I'm feeling particularly burnt out or something like that.
• 36:37
  Dawid Naude: But it's also where I do daily chats and reflections with it.
• 36:41
  Dawid Naude: And it did this observation with me a few days ago where it said, from our chats over the past few weeks, I noticed that when you're chatting to me about building, then you're incredibly energized.
• 36:54
  Dawid Naude: And when you're chatting to me about these things, this is when you usually seem to be in a straight of anxiety, a state of anxiety or a bit more of a distress state.
• 37:03
  Dawid Naude: And so it was crazy how it just kind of offered that up.
• 37:07
  Dawid Naude: Um and if you do have um inspirational people that um resonate with you, it makes AI's job a lot easier because you can you can say, can you now reframe this?
• 37:21
  Dawid Naude: Um, you know, what would they do if it was Richard Branson or if there's a negotiator called Chris Voss, um he's awesome.
• 37:29
  Dawid Naude: You could say um uh it could be sales or even like a difficult conversation.
• 37:35
  Dawid Naude: He talks a lot about that.
• 37:36
  Dawid Naude: Um let's say you had to break some really bad news about to a client.
• 37:39
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 37:40
  Dawid Naude: Um and you could say, okay, can you help me through this as if Chris Voss was giving me advice?
• 37:45
  Dawid Naude: Um and yeah, that's very, very powerful.
• 37:48
  Dom Hind: So even for me, like I've got my board of directors in my head of when I need some advice, I go to, or you know, think about it and try and frame it from what they would try and give me that advice.
• 38:01
  Dom Hind: And having those board of directors in AI, it actually helps when you do need that advice.
• 38:08
  Dawid Naude: It's um I I I c I couldn't agree more.
• 38:10
  Dawid Naude: It's amazing.
• 38:11
  Dawid Naude: Um, the one of the one powerful way I used it recently was um if you say have um let's say there's some behavior from somebody um that you're working with either in your team or a client or friend, family, whatever it is.
• 38:28
  Dawid Naude: Um like my my style has always been like quite um maybe quite impatient.
• 38:36
  Dawid Naude: So just like going as indirect, yeah.
• 38:38
  Dawid Naude: Just direct and also like unrealistic with expectations.
• 38:42
  Dawid Naude: Expectations that they're here and they're just gonna move to here like almost instantly.
• 38:46
  Dom Hind: And you think that they're like you.
• 38:49
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, yeah, which which is horrible.
• 38:51
  Dawid Naude: But the um but there was one once recently over the last couple of weeks where it was like, well, no, uh somebody, in order for somebody to be fully engaged, um, they need to have these types of needs addressed.
• 39:03
  Dawid Naude: And it was like they need a sense of agency, they need a sense of um community of people that they're interacting with, and also they need um to have a sense of mastery, like they're getting and went into the research and science behind that, and they said, Look, the the way to kind of build that up in somebody is they need to go through these steps, and so for the next um for the next uh couple of weeks, just give them this task um that that'll allow them the the ability to to flex agency and mastery um and be able to share it with these people and that'll address those things.
• 39:38
  Dawid Naude: But it actually it actually started working, and so but I had to I had to actually have patience and it's and it this is where it said like over the next four weeks, this is how you should how you should how you should how you should do that.
• 39:50
  Dawid Naude: But that was um I definitely wouldn't have before that.
• 39:54
  Dawid Naude: I think I just would have been the approach just get on with it.
• 39:56
  Dawid Naude: Come on.
• 39:57
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, just do it, just do it.
• 39:58
  Dom Hind: What are you doing?
• 39:58
  Dom Hind: I can't understand why why you haven't done it.
• 40:01
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 40:02
  Dom Hind: Um, this podcast is really about the moments of approaching 50 where many of us start reflecting on what comes next.
• 40:12
  Dom Hind: Some people might feel technology is leaving them behind.
• 40:16
  Dom Hind: What would you say to someone in their 40s or 50s who feels overwhelmed by how fast things are changing?
• 40:24
  Dom Hind: And is it too late?
• 40:26
  Dom Hind: And what should they do right now?
• 40:29
  Dawid Naude: That's a that's an excellent question.
• 40:31
  Dawid Naude: Okay, so if you think of um let's say somebody's 18, yeah, they've just finished school, they've been using tech for a long time, um, been addicted to it, all of that.
• 40:43
  Dawid Naude: Uh the that's like it's very easy to learn what they know.
• 40:50
  Dawid Naude: Like it's very neat, it's very easy.
• 40:52
  Dawid Naude: It's very easy to learn how to use AI if you're in your 40s.
• 40:56
  Dawid Naude: It's very easy.
• 40:57
  Dawid Naude: You know what's really hard is to accumulate like 20 years worth of um interpersonal relationships, nuance, um just all the gut feel type of um reading the room and interactions, but also structuring prompts as well.
• 41:17
  Dom Hind: Like, I mean, because we English was drilled in of sort certain form factors, ways that you're supposed to do it.
• 41:24
  Dawid Naude: Even problem solving, like even that process.
• 41:26
  Dawid Naude: So I think um I think one of the biggest things that AI offers to somebody who's later in their career is unfortunately at the moment, you're probably spending like 70, 80% of your day doing things that you were already quite good at very early in your career.
• 41:41
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Dawid Naude: Whereas now the the idea is that hopefully a lot of that stuff can be removed and you can actually spend most of your time doing the things that you're really, really excellent at that um has taken that long to accumulate.
• 41:55
  Dawid Naude: And I think mostly that will be um relationships, it will be teamwork, it'll be creating new things, it'll be uh experimentation, it'll be uh building fantastic uh client uh uh relationships.
• 42:12
  Dawid Naude: And so I think and spending a lot more time with your clients.
• 42:16
  Dawid Naude: Like you think of you think of somebody who's let's say like in sales or some something in their 40s, like they their customers don't want them to be cheaper and ultra super duper efficient.
• 42:28
  Dawid Naude: It's actually their customers probably just want them to spend more time with them and they want to spend more time with their customers as well, but they're just filled with all this garbage every day.
• 42:36
  Dawid Naude: Um and so I think there's there's enormous opportunity.
• 42:40
  Dawid Naude: It's just just have an open mind and start start tinkering, start playing.
• 42:44
  Dawid Naude: Go watch all the free resources you can find online.
• 42:48
  Dawid Naude: Like uh Claude is a fantastic academy, OpenAI is a fantastic academy, it is completely free.
• 42:54
  Dawid Naude: 99% of people have never even watched the 101 video, let alone the 102, let alone the one on sales and marketing and HR and all of that.
• 43:03
  Dawid Naude: There's they're they're they're remarkable.
• 43:04
  Dawid Naude: There's so much, so much.
• 43:06
  Dom Hind: I think it even when I first first started using this like a long time ago, I think I even said, Can you give me a two-week plan?
• 43:15
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 43:15
  Dom Hind: Of I've got 15 minutes a day.
• 43:18
  Dom Hind: Give me stuff that I should be looking at, whether it's videos or an article to read.
• 43:24
  Dawid Naude: And that's um so a couple years ago, that was um that was a brilliant way to get started.
• 43:30
  Dawid Naude: Now these days, what you can say is go through my calendar and give me a two-week plan, and it'll be able to give you some ideas of how to apply AI to the work that's already in your calendar.
• 43:41
  Dawid Naude: And that's that's really good.
• 43:44
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 43:45
  Dom Hind: Yes, I I think so too.
• 43:47
  Dom Hind: Um if someone wants to become really fluent with AI over the next two years, how much of an of an advantage do you think that will be?
• 43:58
  Dawid Naude: If they become really fluent.
• 43:59
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Dawid Naude: They're playing a different game to everybody else.
• 44:03
  Dawid Naude: Like this is not um so this is the the if you are using AI better than others, you're playing a different game now.
• 44:16
  Dawid Naude: Like this is and it's not it's not a little bit better.
• 44:19
  Dawid Naude: It's not as if oh you you're it's not like your car gets like you know a hundred kilometers per liter and mine gets like 70 kilometers per liter.
• 44:27
  Dawid Naude: Like it's not gonna be like that at all.
• 44:29
  Dawid Naude: It's gonna be you are doing 10 times as much as the other person.
• 44:33
  Dawid Naude: It's not even about volume, it's just you're doing it so much better.
• 44:36
  Dawid Naude: You might um you might be somebody in, let's just use a sales example.
• 44:41
  Dawid Naude: You might still only be meeting five prospects a week.
• 44:44
  Dawid Naude: Two people, they're both meeting five prospects a week, but you're closing every single one of those deals, and the other person is closing some.
• 44:52
  Dawid Naude: Um because those five deals, for every single one, you turn up and you've you've got a brilliant briefing where it's researched everything about them, the problems in the industry, all of that.
• 45:04
  Dawid Naude: But you've taken the time to read it, to build empathy, to understand it, to think how you're gonna have this conversation so you're completely present.
• 45:12
  Dawid Naude: Whereas the other person who's using AI but not that well, um, or just even not that good an operator, they're using it to rewrite the email that they send afterwards.
• 45:24
  Dawid Naude: And so AI doesn't tell replace good leadership and like being a good operator either.
• 45:28
  Dom Hind: Like it's or a good person.
• 45:30
  Dom Hind: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:30
  Dom Hind: Even in the um the day-to-day, like I hate cooking.
• 45:34
  Dom Hind: I hate it.
• 45:35
  Dom Hind: It's the like vein of my existence.
• 45:37
  Dom Hind: So now I will just take a photo of what is in my fridge, what is in my pantry, and say, Can you give me a meal plan for the next week so that I don't have to buy anything and I can use everything that's there?
• 45:50
  Dom Hind: And even that is taking the mental load off something I hate to do something I actually enjoy doing.
• 45:58
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, couldn't agree more.
• 45:59
  Dawid Naude: Like there's uh there's a lot of things like that where, you know, the conversation might be um, oh, but AI, you know, like you can't use your brain or your own.
• 46:09
  Dom Hind: Exactly.
• 46:10
  Dom Hind: It's like I don't care.
• 46:11
  Dom Hind: I don't want to do that thing.
• 46:12
  Dawid Naude: It's like it's uh, you know, like fast food didn't kill home cooking.
• 46:16
  Dom Hind: Like it's like But it's even with cooking when when you know the stress of when you've got people over, I will now say, This is what I'm cooking.
• 46:25
  Dom Hind: Yeah, we are eating it this time.
• 46:27
  Dom Hind: Can you tell me minute by minute or you know, 15-minute increments, what I need to do when, so that I'm not stressed?
• 46:36
  Dawid Naude: The crazy thing is, is that now with these newer features where it can control the browser so well is it being able to actually go and do the online shop for you?
• 46:45
  Dawid Naude: Like that's that's wild as well, just going that next mile.
• 46:49
  Dawid Naude: I I completely agree.
• 46:51
  Dom Hind: There's so many things you think of just the boring stuff that you want to just get it out of your mental load, if it can take that off so that you're doing something interesting.
• 46:59
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, like tax time as well.
• 47:01
  Dawid Naude: Like that, like I don't get it.
• 47:02
  Dawid Naude: I don't get you know, like I'm I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that I'm using AI, like I should be using my brain to manually go through and find invoices in my email and all of that to claim deductions.
• 47:16
  Dawid Naude: Like I'm not I'm not losing sleep over that.
• 47:18
  Dawid Naude: Like I'm very happy to get that time back to have a more compliant and accurate and successful tax return.
• 47:25
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 47:26
  Dom Hind: I'm even using it for looking at the bank statements, going, what are my active subscriptions?
• 47:32
  Dawid Naude: Yes.
• 47:33
  Dom Hind: So that I can then go, well, I'm not actually using these five, I will get rid of them.
• 47:37
  Dawid Naude: That it's it's wildly powerful for that.
• 47:39
  Dawid Naude: If you if you do that, put like the last um this is where you need something like clawed clawed co-work or chat GPD work.
• 47:47
  Dawid Naude: Um but if you download the statements and transactions of say the last year across your your bank accounts and your credit card, and then put it on a high level of thinking and tell it to actually do like a full financial analysis and all of that.
• 48:01
  Dawid Naude: Maybe you don't want to see the results.
• 48:02
  Dawid Naude: No, I know that's it.
• 48:03
  Dom Hind: It's like uh when do we go travel like that?
• 48:07
  Dawid Naude: Yes, exactly.
• 48:08
  Dom Hind: Maybe I'll do that and I won't show anyone else.
• 48:10
  Dawid Naude: No.
• 48:11
  Dom Hind: But it is, it's taking away all the boring stuff so you can actually enjoy it.
• 48:16
  Dawid Naude: And I wouldn't have done that anyways.
• 48:17
  Dawid Naude: Like it's been on something, it's been something that's been on the list for a brazilian years.
• 48:21
  Dawid Naude: Some people are are budgeters and they've got a pretty little spreadsheet at home that they put every single transaction in and all of that.
• 48:30
  Dawid Naude: I've tried that a couple of times, you know, some some some some New Year's resolutions that like, hey, I'm gonna have a budget this year and then that lasts for like all of a day.
• 48:39
  Dawid Naude: Um but now AI can actually like help with that because it's hard, it's just hard for me.
• 48:44
  Dawid Naude: I don't like doing that.
• 48:45
  Dawid Naude: And um AI, it's your choice.
• 48:48
  Dawid Naude: Like if you um if you don't have to like you decide the role it plays in your life.
• 48:55
  Dawid Naude: And um, you know, we still go to the we still go to the cinema to go watch movies, even though you can watch it at home.
• 49:01
  Dawid Naude: Like there's experiential things, like it's never it's never just about efficiency.
• 49:05
  Dawid Naude: Like you you decide how much you want to immerse yourself in in things.
• 49:09
  Dawid Naude: But I find I'm using my brain way more because of AI.
• 49:13
  Dom Hind: I agree.
• 49:14
  Dom Hind: I'm using my brain better for more innovation and more how can I simplify and solve this rather than in the admin crap.
• 49:25
  Dom Hind: And I don't want to be doing admin crap.
• 49:27
  Dom Hind: I want to be thinking.
• 49:29
  Dawid Naude: Yep, I can completely agree.
• 49:30
  Dawid Naude: And it offers so much potential there.
• 49:32
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I absolutely agree.
• 49:35
  Dom Hind: Do you think things like degrees and traditional intelligence, even what we think of as being smart, still matter in an AI world?
• 49:49
  Dawid Naude: So if if I if I take like uh my my uni degree, there were a lot of kind of commerce and management subjects, and then there were and then there were the technical subjects like computer science and things like that.
• 50:04
  Dawid Naude: The you know those those commerce type management subjects, I really don't know if they did anything for me at all.
• 50:12
  Dawid Naude: Um computer science was challenging and rewarding and all of that.
• 50:18
  Dom Hind: But see, I think because I did an IT, but computer science was great because it taught you structure.
• 50:24
  Dom Hind: Like it talked taught you if then else.
• 50:26
  Dom Hind: You know, like it actually taught you that.
• 50:28
  Dom Hind: But we were learning Pascal, like you know, like which was from the 70s in the 90s, and you just go, it's not relevant.
• 50:38
  Dawid Naude: But the structure was good and the thinking patterns, and also you were you were creating, you know, like something, you were building something, you could see if it works or it or it didn't.
• 50:49
  Dawid Naude: Whereas these type of vague management subjects, I don't know how much value that had.
• 50:53
  Dawid Naude: But university, like the probably for me, university number one thing for me was the friends that I made, the college pub, all of that type of stuff.
• 51:02
  Dawid Naude: And so it's not just all about kind of education, but that is one thing that um or it's not about academics.
• 51:11
  Dom Hind: I think that is it.
• 51:13
  Dom Hind: Like I think we put so much pressure on kids today to get the best mark when in reality you can get into a degree after a year of doing arts or something else.
• 51:26
  Dom Hind: Like it's not we just put so much stress.
• 51:29
  Dawid Naude: I think um like when you're when you finish school, 17, 18, that's so young.
• 51:35
  Dawid Naude: You do wonder like if you're not sure what you want to do, and it'd be surprising if you did know exactly what you'd want to do at that age.
• 51:43
  Dawid Naude: Um, even if you did think you knew, you probably don't.
• 51:46
  Dawid Naude: Um but like uni is such a great place to go and like have fun, explore, um, friends, all these different subjects, and like just great, great life experience as part of that as well.
• 52:01
  Dawid Naude: But I do think I I just I think the opportunity for entrepreneurship and projects, like ideally, you're building something, you're shipping something with with people, like you're actually you're actually running an e-comm website with a few people.
• 52:16
  Dawid Naude: Like, imagine if if uni was more around that.
• 52:18
  Dawid Naude: I look, I'm I'm not sure.
• 52:19
  Dawid Naude: It's it's hard.
• 52:20
  Dom Hind: Yeah, but I mean this comes back to the whole thing about education.
• 52:22
  Dom Hind: Like, I do think there needs to be a lot more practical, like when kids leave school now, they're not work ready.
• 52:31
  Dom Hind: They've been educated, but they're not work ready.
• 52:34
  Dom Hind: They don't know how to work.
• 52:36
  Dom Hind: And I mean, we've I we've hired so many graduates in our time where the first three to six months is teaching them how to work, yes, 100% and how to be practical.
• 52:47
  Dom Hind: They think that all the theory that they get at uni will be applied to work, and it's just not, it's not true.
• 52:55
  Dawid Naude: I mean, the real world, particularly with corporates and jobs and all that, is far more dysfunctional than they're made to believe in uni.
• 53:02
  Dawid Naude: And um, so yeah, so I've got a I've actually got I think it's a little video on YouTube that I have that um is like advice for new grads, and I think that the one that I open with is like, look, you you were hired here for your your attitude, not your not your expertise.
• 53:19
  Dawid Naude: It's like just like it was the attitude that you had in the interview process that was the reason why you were hired.
• 53:27
  Dawid Naude: Like, what do you what do you know?
• 53:29
  Dawid Naude: You know theory, yeah.
• 53:30
  Dawid Naude: Like, but you like the real world is going to be very different.
• 53:33
  Dawid Naude: But um, if you're super curious, if you're super humble, if you ask for help, um, if you're the most helpful person in the room wherever you go, that is those are the people that thrive.
• 53:45
  Dawid Naude: And particularly if you do the small things really well, you'll get but you'll get permission then to do the bigger and bigger things.
• 53:51
  Dawid Naude: We've all worked with um people that have entered the workforce, and no matter what you give them, they always have the excuse it's not a good use of their skill set.
• 54:00
  Dawid Naude: It's like how could and they mess those things up.
• 54:02
  Dawid Naude: How can I trust you with um running a marketing campaign if you can't even send out the invitations for a small internal um event, you know, those types of things.
• 54:11
  Dawid Naude: But um I think I think the attitude and then resilience and um all of that is still gonna be the most important things.
• 54:19
  Dom Hind: Yeah, we always used to say good heart, good mind.
• 54:21
  Dom Hind: And that was the number one reason why you were hired.
• 54:25
  Dawid Naude: That's really good.
• 54:26
  Dom Hind: If you didn't have it.
• 54:26
  Dawid Naude: Get out! Yeah, I like that good heart as well.
• 54:30
  Dom Hind: Yeah, good heart, good mind.
• 54:31
  Dom Hind: Okay, so rapid fire questions.
• 54:34
  Dom Hind: Um AI in one word.
• 54:36
  Dom Hind: And game changing is two, so you can't use it.
• 54:41
  Dawid Naude: Potential.
• 54:41
  Dom Hind: Oh, good one.
• 54:43
  Dom Hind: Uh the biggest myth about AI.
• 54:46
  Dawid Naude: That it trains on your data.
• 54:50
  Dom Hind: One skill.
• 54:50
  Dom Hind: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:52
  Dom Hind: Go on.
• 54:53
  Dawid Naude: Like look into it, you've got to change the setting and all that.
• 54:55
  Dawid Naude: But if you're you've got to get the right license, if it's free, you're giving something up.
• 54:59
  Dom Hind: So if it is free, like this is where it's financially free, but yeah, it's financially free, but there's always a cost.
• 55:06
  Dawid Naude: Exactly.
• 55:07
  Dawid Naude: It's always been in tech.
• 55:08
  Dawid Naude: Always been in tech.
• 55:08
  Dawid Naude: You trade data for value.
• 55:10
  Dawid Naude: Um so trade cash for value instead of data.
• 55:12
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 55:12
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I agree.
• 55:13
  Dom Hind: Uh, one skill everyone should be developing right now.
• 55:22
  Dawid Naude: I think I I wanted to say prompting, but that's a bit cliche.
• 55:27
  Dawid Naude: I'd say tinkering, just playing with AI and knowing which models to use.
• 55:32
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
• 55:33
  Dom Hind: That's the number one thing.
• 55:34
  Dawid Naude: Just the drop-down of knowing when do you use like the thinking model versus the instant, that's gonna solve 90% of your problems.
• 55:41
  Dom Hind: And also with the prompting, you can get them to prompt.
• 55:44
  Dom Hind: Exactly.
• 55:44
  Dom Hind: So you just need to understand if they're gonna write the prompt, what are you gonna use to actually answer the prompt?
• 55:52
  Dawid Naude: You can also say, ask me five questions before answering, and then it's gonna tell you what it needs to know for the prompt.
• 55:58
  Dawid Naude: Like, um, so there's lots of those things.
• 56:00
  Dom Hind: Yeah, okay, good.
• 56:01
  Dom Hind: Um, most exciting thing about the next decade.
• 56:06
  Dawid Naude: All the entrepreneurial opportunities, all the businesses that will exist um because of AI.
• 56:15
  Dawid Naude: And I'm not talking people think we're talking about AI jobs.
• 56:18
  Dawid Naude: I'm talking about the the artisan um uh bangle maker who makes bangles from seashells, but there's never really been a business in that.
• 56:26
  Dawid Naude: But now they can get an e-com website up and a million other things.
• 56:31
  Dom Hind: Everyone at the markets now.
• 56:33
  Dom Hind: At the markets, they thought that their shopfront was just the market.
• 56:36
  Dom Hind: Now they can easily just get something up.
• 56:40
  Dawid Naude: Exactly.
• 56:40
  Dawid Naude: Um, you you see what like uh Uber Eats did for um places that made pizza.
• 56:46
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 56:47
  Dawid Naude: Like all of a sudden, dominoes and pizza hut and all of that.
• 56:50
  Dawid Naude: I mean, how many people cry that there aren't as many dominoes places?
• 56:54
  Dawid Naude: Like not many.
• 56:55
  Dawid Naude: Like it's uh because we go into every each reality.
• 56:57
  Dawid Naude: Like the um yeah, so I think I think that's that's what's really really inspiring.
• 57:03
  Dawid Naude: I also think the fact that top class, exceptional, best in class, best in the world education will be available universally because these things don't use much like internet or traffic data.
• 57:18
  Dawid Naude: So you could have like a weak 3G signal in the middle of regional South Africa, and that is enough to have Chat GPT to be the world's greatest teacher of any academic subject at any level, borderline in any language.
• 57:34
  Dawid Naude: How far can we go with this?
• 57:35
  Dawid Naude: We we have no idea.
• 57:36
  Dom Hind: Well, I mean, knowledge is power, particularly in those areas.
• 57:40
  Dawid Naude: Absolutely.
• 57:40
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 57:41
  Dom Hind: Okay, your mood in one in one word right now.
• 57:49
  Dawid Naude: Impatient.
• 57:50
  Dawid Naude: Great.
• 57:55
  Dom Hind: Okay.
• 57:55
  Dom Hind: Uh what's the one truth about artificial intelligence that people need to hear?
• 58:02
  Dawid Naude: It's for everybody.
• 58:04
  Dom Hind: Uh yes.
• 58:05
  Dom Hind: I think that's I think it's for everyone, and I do really like the data.
• 58:09
  Dom Hind: Like, if you're not paying, you're giving something.
• 58:12
  Dom Hind: Absolutely.
• 58:12
  Dom Hind: So paying for protect yourself.
• 58:15
  Dawid Naude: It's a tool worth paying for.
• 58:16
  Dawid Naude: Like it's just um a $200 a month um pro subscription is far uh that's well used, is far cheaper than a $20 um just plus subscription where you're just fumbling around.
• 58:30
  Dawid Naude: Like the this is the amount of value that it creates for you is not nearly proportionate to the fee that you pay for it.
• 58:37
  Dawid Naude: Like it's it's crazy.
• 58:39
  Dawid Naude: So yeah.
• 58:41
  Dom Hind: Until your credits just keep getting out of control.
• 58:45
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, for sure.
• 58:45
  Dawid Naude: And that's where you need to know models, right?
• 58:47
  Dawid Naude: Because you don't need to use a chainsaw to like cut through a piece of lukewarm butter.
• 58:51
  Dawid Naude: No, no, that's but see, yeah.
• 58:53
  Dom Hind: That's where it's interesting.
• 58:55
  Dom Hind: So for me, how I use Claude versus chat, like chat is just give me directional, quick answers.
• 59:05
  Dom Hind: I don't know, you're probably different about, but you know, whereas for me, Claude is more that engaged in-depth co-worker rather than assistant.
• 59:14
  Dawid Naude: Well, well, for us, um I mean we use all of them, but because OpenAI arrived in Australia before Anthropic did, and business-wise, we had a few major rollouts with them, and so we've always gotten to know that platform, but they're both fantastic tools.
• 59:31
  Dawid Naude: Claude has always had a really nice uh style to it, they've put an enormous amount of effort into the into the personality of Claude, and so Claude was uh I guess he's made a joke, you know, Claude people are typically a bit better looking, just a bit cooler.
• 59:51
  Dawid Naude: Like but and then they launched Claude Cowork, which all of a sudden is like, holy cow, this is not just a style thing, this is actually doing things that the other platforms can't.
• 1:00:04
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  Dawid Naude: But now they're starting to all look and feel the same and kind of copying each other and stealing each other's talent and you know, they're all suing each other and all of that.
• 1:00:11
  Dawid Naude: So I think um it's still about just I'd say like pick Claude or Chat GPT.
• 1:00:18
  Dawid Naude: Like you then you can't go wrong.
• 1:00:19
  Dawid Naude: Just use either of the either of those.
• 1:00:21
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, they're the two frontier leaders, and just go.
• 1:00:24
  Dawid Naude: Like, and you know, maybe five years from now, if somebody listens to this podcast, they'll go, it's like what that Yahoo in MySpace?
• 1:00:31
  Dawid Naude: What are they talking about?
• 1:00:32
  Dawid Naude: Like Web Messenger, like MSN Messenger, what's that tool?
• 1:00:36
  Dawid Naude: Like, it's like um, but uh we'll see.
• 1:00:38
  Dawid Naude: But at the moment, just use those platforms.
• 1:00:40
  Dawid Naude: They're both fantastic bets and great tech.
• 1:00:42
  Dom Hind: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:43
  Dom Hind: Okay, um, two questions to go.
• 1:00:45
  Dom Hind: Um, if someone listening wanted to start experimenting with AI right now, what's the simplest thing they could try?
• 1:00:55
  Dom Hind: I think it's downloading the apps, isn't it?
• 1:00:58
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, and exactly what you said, they're downloading.
• 1:01:00
  Dawid Naude: So um the web version of these tools, they're fantastic.
• 1:01:04
  Dawid Naude: But what Claude Cowork did was really spearhead if this lives on your desktop and it has access to folders and a controlly computer and all of that, now all of a sudden it goes from being an advisor to a worker.
• 1:01:17
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 1:01:17
  Dawid Naude: Um and so I would do that, and I would I would I would do that and actually in some ways, it seems a bit kind of intuitive, but actually use that to build an app to help you.
• 1:01:30
  Dawid Naude: That will that will help demonstrate a lot of different things.
• 1:01:34
  Dawid Naude: That the fact that anybody can create things now that can vibe code, yeah, it's gonna be immediately useful for you.
• 1:01:40
  Dawid Naude: Um, something it's gonna demonstrate the breadth of the technology, something like that.
• 1:01:44
  Dawid Naude: Look at your calendar for next week.
• 1:01:45
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, like that's that's what you do.
• 1:01:47
  Dom Hind: This probably uh builds into you.
• 1:01:49
  Dom Hind: Look, look at your calendar.
• 1:01:50
  Dom Hind: What three habits should someone start building now with AI?
• 1:01:58
  Dawid Naude: Oh, great question.
• 1:02:00
  Dawid Naude: Okay, so um there's a couple of foundational ones that will help everybody.
• 1:02:04
  Dawid Naude: So um top tips in how you use AI.
• 1:02:09
  Dawid Naude: So get into the habit of um.
• 1:02:14
  Dom Hind: Do you do you open it every morning?
• 1:02:16
  Dom Hind: Like, is that your first app you open?
• 1:02:19
  Dawid Naude: Uh it is one of the first ones I opened.
• 1:02:24
  Dom Hind: Okay, sorry.
• 1:02:25
  Dawid Naude: So the first the first one I open is um open up X, and then I just look at I have uh just literally I have I have I have a list just called AI Founders, and it just has like it has Sam Altman and all those guys.
• 1:02:39
  Dawid Naude: And that's how you find out and the and the leakers.
• 1:02:42
  Dom Hind: And the leakers, right?
• 1:02:42
  Dawid Naude: Like that uh that that are on the inside and um of what's happening.
• 1:02:46
  Dawid Naude: And then after that, um yeah, sometimes I'll I'll I'll do Chat GPD, particularly work with that.
• 1:02:54
  Dawid Naude: Um but then okay, so top tip with AI.
• 1:02:58
  Dawid Naude: Um first know the models and think and particularly thinking mode.
• 1:03:04
  Dawid Naude: That makes it's gonna solve 95% of your problems.
• 1:03:07
  Dawid Naude: The second is get into the habit of telling it, ask me five questions before answering.
• 1:03:14
  Dawid Naude: Don't worry about learning prompting at the beginning, just do that.
• 1:03:18
  Dawid Naude: And the third massive top tip is then push the little uh dictate microphone button.
• 1:03:24
  Dawid Naude: Yes.
• 1:03:25
  Dawid Naude: And just when you're answering those five questions, just ramble into it.
• 1:03:29
  Dawid Naude: More is more.
• 1:03:30
  Dawid Naude: Just but you're not trying to give an answer in a minute.
• 1:03:33
  Dawid Naude: You can spend 10 minutes, give it as much context as possible.
• 1:03:36
  Dawid Naude: It's borderline these are these days.
• 1:03:38
  Dawid Naude: AI can if you give it enough context and you give it enough reasoning, so enough thinking, it feels like it can kind of do anything.
• 1:03:46
  Dawid Naude: Um, and so make it easy for it to know what you're trying to do by just rambling with with voice as much into it.
• 1:03:54
  Dawid Naude: Also, makes it great on uh mobile as well.
• 1:03:57
  Dom Hind: Yeah, I think the voice is the best thing.
• 1:03:59
  Dom Hind: Like it literally like being able to talk to it, because typing it if you're impatient, it does take too long to type everything you want.
• 1:04:09
  Dawid Naude: And we're used to typing needing to be like like you can't send an email with like half-baked sentences and all that.
• 1:04:17
  Dawid Naude: So we're used to like typing being like a final thing.
• 1:04:22
  Dawid Naude: Whereas this is just looking for direction.
• 1:04:24
  Dawid Naude: And so you can just ramble, you can contradict yourself, you can um and R a million times, you can correct yourself later going, no, I actually also do this.
• 1:04:32
  Dawid Naude: Oh, and also I met this person, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:34
  Dawid Naude: That that type that type of thing, it's just it's just trying to find enough of direction for you from you to to direct it, and that makes a massive difference.
• 1:04:42
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Dom Hind: Okay.
• 1:04:43
  Dom Hind: Have we left anything out?
• 1:04:46
  Dawid Naude: I think probably if you were to take those three tips, the first thing you should do is say, I've just got this Clawed or Chat GPD license.
• 1:04:57
  Dawid Naude: Um I'm trying to figure out how to use it and what I should do with it.
• 1:05:01
  Dawid Naude: Like, and then use those things that I just suggested.
• 1:05:03
  Dawid Naude: That's what you should do.
• 1:05:04
  Dawid Naude: Yeah.
• 1:05:05
  Dawid Naude: And be ambitious.
• 1:05:06
  Dawid Naude: Be ambitious.
• 1:05:07
  Dom Hind: Be curious.
• 1:05:08
  Dawid Naude: Yes, definitely.
• 1:05:08
  Dawid Naude: Just question.
• 1:05:09
  Dawid Naude: Be impatient.
• 1:05:10
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 1:05:10
  Dom Hind: And the thing is, you're not like there's no right or wrong.
• 1:05:15
  Dom Hind: So you can just try.
• 1:05:17
  Dawid Naude: You can just try, and there's ways to manage all the risks that people talk about if they are even risks at all anymore.
• 1:05:22
  Dawid Naude: And the reason why I'm impatient is the technology is so powerful right now.
• 1:05:29
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  Dawid Naude: The what blew my mind, and this was two weeks ago, so ChatGPT just released ChatGPT work, their equivalent of clawed co-work.
• 1:05:38
  Dom Hind: Yeah.
• 1:05:38
  Dawid Naude: Download the desktop app of it, and I'd had um sold a car a year ago at an insurance company.
• 1:05:45
  Dawid Naude: Um, my fault, not theirs, obviously never canceled the policy, but it's just like auto-renewed.
• 1:05:50
  Dawid Naude: Um, and so I wanted to contact them, get a refund.
• 1:05:53
  Dawid Naude: I did the normal way you'd use AI typically, go through my emails, find the invoice, all that type of thing.
• 1:05:58
  Dawid Naude: But then I said, can you contact them on live chat, like on the web chat on their website, and can you see if you can get a refund for me?
• 1:06:09
  Dawid Naude: For one hour, it did the entire interaction for me.
• 1:06:14
  Dom Hind: Oh my gosh.
• 1:06:15
  Dawid Naude: And then I got the refund.
• 1:06:17
  Dawid Naude: Like uh hour of your time back.
• 1:06:18
  Dawid Naude: Hour of my time back.
• 1:06:20
  Dawid Naude: Like, and when I looked at it every few minutes, um, so if they said, Oh, okay, great, give me a few minutes, I'm just gonna go look into the system, whatever, every few minutes it would nudge them and say, Hey, just checking if you're still there.
• 1:06:33
  Dawid Naude: Wow, it was crazy.
• 1:06:35
  Dawid Naude: When I looked at how it um when I looked at the chat thread, the only thing that I didn't like was the way it opened the conversation was very adversarial.
• 1:06:46
  Dawid Naude: I was like, this is my mistake, not theirs.
• 1:06:48
  Dawid Naude: Like it was it opened it as going.
• 1:06:51
  Dawid Naude: It opened it as this is not a formal complaint, but if this is not resolved on this chat, I may lots of complaints.
• 1:06:57
  Dawid Naude: I was like, no, no, that's not somebody somebody's getting paid not that much money in a call center in another country.
• 1:07:02
  Dawid Naude: This is not the way that you want to start their day.
• 1:07:05
  Dom Hind: Yeah, that would have been a good, a good thing for next time, make sure.
• 1:07:09
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, but that the fact that um that was literally just using a consumer tool that anybody in the world has access to because it just controlled my browser and had access to my just my personal Gmail, like that was that blew me away.
• 1:07:22
  Dawid Naude: Um and that that's available right now for everybody.
• 1:07:26
  Dawid Naude: Yeah, wild.
• 1:07:27
  Dom Hind: It is, it is wild.
• 1:07:29
  Dom Hind: Okay, all right.
• 1:07:30
  Dom Hind: Thank you very much for your time.
• 1:07:32
  Dom Hind: Uh, and thank you very much for the conversation.
• 1:07:34
  Dom Hind: Uh, the truth is every generation experiences moments where the world suddenly changes.
• 1:07:41
  Dom Hind: The internet, smartphones, social media, and now artificial intelligence.
• 1:07:46
  Dom Hind: It's easy to look at technology and feel intimidated, but maybe this moment isn't about machines replacing humans, because it's about humans learning how to collaborate with machines in ways we could never before.
• 1:08:03
  Dom Hind: Because curiosity, curiosity still matters, creativity still matters, and the human ability to question, imagine, and connect will always matter.
• 1:08:13
  Dom Hind: So maybe the real opportunity isn't to compete with AI, it's to collaborate with it and see what becomes possible.
• 1:08:21
  Dom Hind: David, thank you very much for helping us understand the future just a little bit better.
• 1:08:28
  Dom Hind: And if you want to understand more about what Pathfinder does, uh we will put all the links and everything in the show notes.
• 1:08:36
  Dom Hind: And if this episode made you think differently, share it with a friend because this might be the first time in history where not learning something new actually puts you behind.
• 1:08:48
  Dom Hind: So thank you, and fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing?