Latest / Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast / Summer'26 Bible School - 1 Corinthians- Session 2- Catherine Penn, Rebekah Holden and Tim Dobson

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Summer'26 Bible School - 1 Corinthians- Session 2- Catherine Penn, Rebekah Holden and Tim Dobson · Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: Going to look at one section, we're not going to attempt to look at all of that, don't worry.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm gonna look at one section, give you a couple of minutes to sort of reflect on it amongst yourselves, and Rebecca's gonna look at another section, uh, do the same, and then uh at the end of that, we're gonna have a sort of QA slot.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_05: So if you get questions that come up, we're talking about big topics here tonight.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_05: So um if there are questions that come up, just sort of make a mental note of them, and me and Rebecca and Tim are going to do a little QA at the end.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um tonight I'm going to look at that.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna look at chapter seven of what we just read, in the middle of what we just read.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and chapter seven is a chapter that looks at the topics of widowhood, singleness, and marriage.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: And that's just a heads up, really, that um that's what we're talking about.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_05: And those this is an area of life which obviously affects everybody in this room in one way or another.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: It's something that that I just want to acknowledge first up, is that it can be a source of great pain in our lives sometimes, can be a source of sadness and regret, sometimes of shame.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I just want us to acknowledge that as we talk about it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_05: Some of the things that I'm going to cover might be hard to talk about.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but God wants to meet us in our places of brokenness and pain and bring his redemption and his grace and his love to those places.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: And we also we all bring our own experiences to this chapter.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's right, you know, this is this is God's word to us, and we want to hear what he says, but we don't come to it as neutral, sort of objective readers, really.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, we bring our own stories and our own histories.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and for those of you who don't know me, I think it's worth saying because of what I'm talking about that um that my own history is that I was married very young, as some others in the room probably were.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um I was married for getting on for 30 years, and then my husband passed away.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so I've lived the last few years as a widow and single as a as a widow.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so I bring that to this chapter, obviously, as you bring your stories to this chapter.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_05: So chapters five, six, and seven cover lots of topics.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_05: Paul was all over the place, as I'm sure you heard, but um, lots of space is given to the topics of sex and marriage, and it's really, really important as we read these chapters to remember to contextualize what we're reading.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: We thought about that last week if you were here.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, this is God's word to us, this is it's living and active, but uh originally it was written to a specific church at a specific time to address specific issues, and expectations and norms around sex for the Corinthians and marriage in the first century were very different to our own.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, as Dan was saying, that Corinth was this melting pot of cultures, and the sort of religious life of Corinth centered around the worship of Aphrodite and Apollo.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_05: Again, we covered that last week if you were here.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and that temple worship had lots of elements of sex and prostitution in it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and the Corinthians had been had come to Jesus in that context, and so they were trying to work out how to live out this part of their life in the light of their newfound faith in Jesus in Corinth in the first century.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: And in chapters five and six, um, Paul had really strong and directive words for the church.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: He's heard what's been going on there, and he's heard that some of the church have decided that the freedom that they have in Jesus allows them to behave as they want.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_05: They say, I have the right to do what I want.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_05: Someone is sleeping with his father's wife, um, some of them are visiting prostitutes, presumably still involved with that temple worship in Corinth.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_05: They've believed that their freedom means that they can throw off all restraints.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: They say the body is just for this world and it doesn't matter what I do with it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_05: And Paul makes it clear that those behaviours lie outside of what obedience to Jesus looks like.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: He says you might, in a in a sense, you might have the right to do what you want, but not everything is beneficial.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_05: We have an embodied faith, and what we do with our bodies, says Paul, how we treat other people's bodies is profoundly important.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_05: He's very direct.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: He says, flee sexual immorality, and he ends chapter six with these words Don't you know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who is in you, who you've received from God.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: You are not your own, you are bought at a price, therefore, honour God with your bodies.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_05: And with that in mind, we come to chapter seven.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_05: And as we come to chapter seven, I think it's important to give a bit more context.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_05: When it comes to marriage, in the first century, sort of in a Roman colony, the general expectation was that women or girls really at puberty would often be betrothed.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_05: So we're talking 12, 13, 14, promised in marriage to often significantly older men.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um often families would be involved in arranging those marriages, and there was an expectation that people would get married.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_05: That was the norm.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_05: There was a quite a social pressure on people to get married, and a pressure on women, especially, to remarry after divorce or widowhood.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: And at this time there was a law in force in Rome, in the Roman Empire, that um widows, for example, had to get married within a certain time frame, had to remarry in a certain time frame or face penalties, face financial penalties, lose inheritance, that sort of thing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: So for Roman citizens in Corinth, and they weren't all Roman citizens in the church, but some of them that was that was an extra pressure.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm saying that because we can't lift this chapter and just apply it to the 21st century without putting some thought into it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: And it's also helpful to notice that Paul isn't laying down hard and fast rules for all people at all times, even in the church in Corinth.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_05: So he says phrases like this: I say this as a concession, not as a command, in my judgment.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: There's lots of phrases like that that come up in this chapter, which makes it a really interesting chapter.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: It gives us an interesting insight into how Paul is writing and teaching.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_05: Much of his teaching here comes across as guidance, as wisdom.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_05: There's one place where he points out he's giving the teaching of Jesus, but even there, he does it really carefully.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_05: So he's teaching the Corinthians how to think, how to bring what they know about God and themselves into the dilemmas that they're facing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's a really important lesson for us to learn, too, as we as we read this chapter.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_05: But there are lasting principles here as well that underlie what Paul says and that are relevant to us, and I'm going to attempt to tease out some of those as we unpack this slightly complicated chapter together this evening.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm going to draw together, try and draw together what he says about marriage, what he says about to people who are not married, and then talk a little bit about widowhood.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I am leaving some things out, so just I can't cover it all this evening.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_05: So he starts off chapter seven with these words.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: Now for the matters you wrote about.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's that's a marker in this letter.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: That remember he's he's responding to a letter that the Corinthians have written to him.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_05: We don't have that letter, we learn something about it from this letter that he's writing here, but we don't get all the details.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_05: And he he quotes he quotes them here, so that's really helpful.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_05: He does give us a quote from their letter, which is that it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we read from a slightly different chapter, slightly different version, which says something slightly different, but this seems to be what he's saying.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and in chapter six before this, he was addressing people who thought that being spiritual meant that you could do whatever you wanted with your bodies.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_05: In chapter seven, here he's talking to people in the church who seem to be teaching that to be spiritual meant that you should deny those urges, and they seem to be demanding celibacy or teaching celibacy even within marriage.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um, maybe they feel that that's the way to escape the chaos of Corinth is just to deny it altogether and just not not have sex at all.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, which may seem like a strange thing to our ears, but there have been plenty of periods in church history where that has been a teaching at times in the church that even within marriage, sex is something that's just for producing children and and should not something to be enjoyed.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um Paul is clear again here.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: He says, No, he says that sex is part of marriage, it's part of the commitment that a husband and wife make to each other.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_05: He says several times in this chapter, it is not sinful to be married, there is no shame in being married.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: And this, I think, this these verses are a really important section in the Bible's teaching on marriage because of the way that Paul portrays it.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_05: So you may have heard teaching before that says that Paul presents a hierarchical view of marriage, that the man is the head of the wife, but the wife is submissive.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: But this these verses here say something very different.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_05: There's a mutuality and an equality in marriage that's presented here, and it's really important that we notice that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_05: So he says exactly the same things to the wife as he does to the husband, and he does that really explicitly.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: So the wife yields her body to the husband, but the husband yields his body to the wife.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_05: There's no element of control implied here because they are temples of the Holy Spirit, but there's there's a mutuality here.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um he says that depriving one another of sex in the marriage isn't making you more spiritual, in fact, it's it's leading to some of the chaos because it's increasing the temptation to look elsewhere outside the marriage.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_05: And note the reason that he gives for having a period away from sex is that you might devote yourself to prayer.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_05: Throughout this chapter, Paul's eyes are on the bigger picture, they're on how we can best serve Jesus and be devoted to him.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_05: But this he says is not a command.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_05: He says in this verses, this is not a command, he's not laying down rules here.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: This is again his his wisdom.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_05: But he sees marriage as a serious commitment.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_05: He he goes on to talk about um divorce, and I'm not going to look at that tonight because I think it's just too important and big a topic.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_05: We we haven't got time to give it the care and the nuance that it would need that discussion.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_05: But um he takes Jesus' teaching on marriage and divorce seriously, and he applies it in this chapter to the context where a person comes to faith and they're they're a believer and their spouse isn't.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: And again, we read between the lines to see that perhaps the Corinthians were teaching that in that case it was okay to just leave, leave the non-Christian and get a divorce.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_05: And Paul says, No, don't leave, but he does say if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: The brother or sister is not bound in such circumstances.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: God has called us to live in peace.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: Paul sees Jesus' teaching as authoritative, he emphasizes that Jesus is has taught about divorce, but actually he applies it really carefully and wisely.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_05: And he goes on to say this, which is the sort of principle that he's laying down in this part of the chapter, that each person as responsible to God should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: We're called to live in peace, and God can make us a blessing where we are when we are saved.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so he presents marriage as important, a commitment to be taken seriously, and as a relationship of equality.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_05: Those are what he says about, those are the I think the lasting principles that he teaches here about marriage.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: But what about people who are not married?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and we learn something really interesting about Paul in this chapter, which is that he's not married.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I've put there, um, so he talks to the unmarried and the widowed.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's possible that this these verses imply that he is widowed.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um the word for widows here is is just the Greek word for a specifically a woman whose husband has died.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: There's no there's no equivalent in the Greek for a man whose wife has died.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: So some commentators think that he he's he that could be translated as to the widowers and widows.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um that's sort of conjecture.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_05: It would have been really unusual for someone in Paul's position as a Pharisee and so on to um to have never been married.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_05: So possibly he's he's been married and lost his wife, but we don't know.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_05: But he's not married, and that gives a really interesting dimension, I think, to his teaching here on singleness.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe in a slightly surprising bit of teaching, Paul suggests that it is good for people who are not married to stay unmarried.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: Again, this is not a rule, he's also saying in this chapter that it's good for some people to get married.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: He's not he's not putting one above the other here, I don't think, in this chapter.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's putting them on an equal footing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: But why does he say, or why might he suggest that it's it's good not to get married?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_05: He says, I wish, I wish that you were all as I am.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's a few reasons that he suggests in these verses.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_05: It is not because marriage is wrong or sinful or less spiritual, not that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: Remember, he's dealing with the with the Corinthians who who are arguing that um some of them are teaching that celibacy is a is a good thing, but he's saying, Well, it might be good not to get married, but your reasoning is maybe not right.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: So there's there's a few reasons.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_05: He says, first of all, because of a present crisis, it might be wise to delay marriage.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, there's some different you may have different translations in front of you, and there's some disagreements about some of the wording in this section, but um, but I don't think it doesn't really affect what we're doing here.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um there was at this time actually an actual crisis.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: So in the first century, around this time, around 50 AD, um, there was a shortage of grain in the Greek and Roman Empire, which was causing a famine.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: So there was a crisis that they were facing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_05: It may have been that they were facing persecution in the church.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: Perhaps he's saying that because of what's going on, don't add to your troubles by starting a family now, whatever, that's that's just causing more trouble.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: But I think he's also um got his eye on something bigger, a bigger picture as well.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_05: Because he also says the world is passing away.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: He says the time is short in verse 29.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_05: From now on, those who have wives should live as if they do not, those who mourn as if they did not, those who are happy as if they did not, they are not.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: This world in its present form is passing away.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: In everything, Paul wants them and us to keep their eyes on the on the bigger picture.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_05: He doesn't want them to live as if this world is all that there is, or all that there ever will be.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: They belong to a different kingdom now.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: And whatever we do, says Paul, we keep a loose hold on the things of this world.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_05: Doesn't mean that we don't take them seriously, we don't take our marriages seriously, our friendships seriously, all of that, but but even marriage is temporary.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_05: And he focuses then on in verse 32 and um verse 35 around there that um being married, says Paul, might distract you from being completely devoted to Jesus.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: There's a danger that our loyalties become divided.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_05: This is not a hard and fast rule.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_05: Paul is elsewhere, he's like really positive about marriage.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he's quite positive in this in this chapter.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: If you look at his other letters, if you look at Ephesians chapter 5, that amazing picture of marriage as a picture of the relationship between Jesus and the church.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he's he's seen good marriages close up.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: We mentioned Priscilla and Aquila last week, um, that couple that he travels with that he sends greetings from at the end of this letter.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, what an amazing couple who were such a blessing as a married couple to other people and to Paul.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_05: But our ultimate loyalty is to Jesus.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_05: And there are good things, says Paul, that come from being single.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_05: And I think what he says about singleness here is really significant.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_05: He does elevate the status of single people in this chapter.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate that he is writing into a different context.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_05: And if you're single here this evening, you might not see your own situation mirrored in this chapter.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_05: But he does say that for some people it is a good choice that allows them to serve Jesus with a wholehearted devotion.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_05: That was really countercultural and radical at the time.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: He was saying that it's possible to live a fulfilling, Jesus-centered, God-honouring life without sex and without marriage.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_05: That's what Paul was doing himself.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: And he recognises that it's not an easy thing to say.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: So he says in verse 35, I'm saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not a blanket rule, he's but he's urging the Corinthians to examine their hearts and their motives for what they do, and I think we can we can learn a lot from that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: And finally, just briefly, um, some thoughts on what he says on widowhood, because he addresses the widows here directly.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_05: Partly there may have been a higher proportion of younger widows in their church than there would be in ours because of that younger age that they got married, that age gap, the lower life expectancies, that sort of thing.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_05: But uh there is a thread through the Bible about caring for widows and noticing widows.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he ends with these verses.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: So a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_05: So the teaching here I think is teaching that is still relevant to us today.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_05: When we get married, we make our promises until death do us part, and then our marriages end.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and we are free, widows are free to marry again.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_05: He makes that really clear.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um but he must belong to the Lord because remember that Jesus is our first priority.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_05: But amazingly, he tells the widows here that they are free not to marry again.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: Just remember the pressure that they might have felt to remarry.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_05: They would have faced not just that sort of legal pressure that some of them faced, but also they would have faced poverty, they might have faced isolation, they might have faced stigma as widows, things that widows face today sometimes.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: And Paul tells them that they can resist those pressures, the pressure of society, of other well-meaning Christians, of their families.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: And um, I I just highlighted that word because it jumped out at me really that he says that she might be happier if she stays as she is.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's the I've got some Greek, because like the Odyssey's out, and Greek is cool, so I thought I'd put some Greek.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: So Macario, makario terror, um, which is the word happy, it comes from the word that is comes up in the New Testament a lot, and it often means it's often translated as blessed.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: So in the uh Beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount, when Jesus says blessed are the peacemakers and so on, that's from that's this word.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um so Paul is saying to these widows, there can be blessing and happiness in your singleness after widowhood, and that is a real little nugget of gold for those widows.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's is a really precious truth that's in this verse that really jumped out on me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: So don't miss it.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: How radical, how countercultural he's being when he says that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: And then he ends with I think that I too have the spirit of God, which is a little dig, I think it's supposed to be a little dig at the Corinthians.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like they think they're being a bit more spiritual than Paul with their rules and their thinking and things, but actually, you know, he has presented this as.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: As advice, as guidance, but he's doing it under the inspiration of the Spirit, and he's doing it with an authority.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um his primary aim in this chapter, I think, is that ultimately he he wants them to have this undivided devotion to Jesus, and that should be our greatest desire, too.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_05: And every other relationship, everything else is secondary to that, and comes and we make our decisions based on that undivided devotion to Jesus first.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_05: So that's chapter seven, and um I just love you to what's the time?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_05: That's fine.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: You've got about two minutes to um just we've got four minutes, so I'm going to two minutes and then two minutes to just turn to the person next to you and have a little think.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_05: And I have a question to prompt you, but obviously talk about whatever.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: Do the practices and culture of our own church communities reflect Paul's principles in this chapter?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_05: Think about what he says about marriage and singleness and this whole area of life.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: Do our church cultures reflect that?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I realise that some people in the room are very new to church, and you may not have any thoughts about that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_05: So just has anything about this chapter surprised you.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we've had a nice look at chapter seven, and now I'm going to take a look at chapters eight to ten.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the issue that Paul addresses is surprisingly around food as a major issue.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not just a kind of a trivial or the different um foods that they can and can't eat.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually the next major issue that was raised by the Corinthians, and it's more specifically about the meat that had been sacrificed at the local temples to Greek and Roman gods, because as Catherine mentioned, just I'm reversing outside, as Catherine mentioned, um, we're in a context where actually in the temples there were lots of, they were worshipping lots of pagan gods and in Corinth.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a little bit of a split between the Jewish Christians, so those that had converted from Judaism, um and the non-Jewish Christians about how to respond to this issue.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so on the one side we had the Jewish Christians who had grown up with a very strict Jewish law saying that they could not participate in any idolatry or any food given to idols.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they were coming from that point of view, and then on the other side we had the non-Jewish Christians, you know, the Gentiles, who argued that their knowledge gave them freedom.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, they're like they possess the spiritual knowledge that an idol is nothing at all and there is only one true God.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And some were really, so basically, from their point of view, they were like, okay, well, if we know these things, if we know an idol holds no power, then what's the issue?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why can't we eat the meat that's um been sacrificed in the temple?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they were really defending their right to eat um sorry, eat it in the temple.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're basically saying, look, I know I'm fine, I know I'm not sinning, I know I've done nothing wrong, so really what's the issue?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the problem?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why can't we do those things?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is how Paul responds.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll notice that throughout Corinthians, Paul responds to each issue in the same way, using the same structure.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, firstly, he defines the problem, and then he responds through the lens of the gospel.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, looking at how it links to the good news about Jesus, and he does that every time with each issue in Corinthians, and it's no different here.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, he starts in chapter 8 by defining the problem.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, if we look at verses 1 to 3, now about food sacrificed to idols, we know that we all possess knowledge, but knowledge puffs up while love builds up.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know, but whoever loves God is known by God.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when Paul I've like circled the now about, um, because I think, as Catherine mentioned, when he when he says now about, it's likely that he's probably quoting the letter that the Church of Corinth wrote to him.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this verse suggests that they wrote, so every time you see quotation marks, they probably wrote the phrase, we all possess knowledge.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he's responding to that directly.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then he repeats the phrase in verse four, but with a connective, where he's giving the answer and he explains this knowledge.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So then, so I've circled it again, so then about eating food sacrificed to idols.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: If we jump to the text in gold, there is a bold rather, there is no God but one, for even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so he's quoting the letter back to them, going, Look, I know you said this.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's basically saying, Look, I know that you know this, I know that you know the gospel, I know that you understand all of this.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: But he makes a very important point in verse 7.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone possesses this knowledge.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial um food, sorry, they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not everyone has the same knowledge as you do.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's basically saying you might not personally be affected by all of this, but some people have very recently converted from pagan beliefs, or they might still believe that these gods are real, so think about how your actions are affecting others.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the Corinthians were very concerned about their rights.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: But Paul gives a warning, you know, be careful.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's quite, as Catherine said, he's very directive.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the to the weak.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, if someone sees you, if someone else sees you doing this, they might be tempted to do the same.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it might mean something different for them.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: In chapter eight, Paul is basically saying, look, there's two scenarios.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, scenario one, okay, if you're in a situation where there is meat that has been dedicated to another god, and there are people who might watch you and conclude that Christians worship Jesus and worship other gods too, then don't eat the meat.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's really unhelpful.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to lead them astray.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, on paper, you're not technically breaking any rules, but you should think about what you're doing and how it affects others because your loyalty is to Jesus and you should love those people more than you love yourself and not mislead them.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's basically asking the creators to be careful, and he's late even stronger so that you know your brother, but your brother or sister whom Christ died for is not destroyed by your knowledge.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like quite powerful language.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have scenario two.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: The animal was ultimately created by God, and the idol has no power.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, if there's no one around who is going to misunderstand your actions, then feel free, eat up, crack on, because you're free as a new human in Christ to follow your conscience in these kinds of debatable matters.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting, isn't it?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bigger question.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what makes it okay in one situation to eat and not in the other?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that core principle is love.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because love will deny itself and look out for the well-being of others, and God's love is the core principle of the gospel.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Paul is basically saying, look, it's it's not about you exercising your rights, it's not just making sure that you're okay.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Your motive is should be love.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Knowledge paths up while love builds up.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's interesting, like as Catherine was saying earlier, it's not like he's giving a really clear black and white, isn't he?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can or you can't eat the meat in a temple.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, actually, can we look at the context, look at the scenario, look at how it's affecting other people and link it back to that core principle of love.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with any Bible study, with any book of the Bible, it's important to look at what did it mean then and what does it mean now.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you might be listening to that and applying it in different ways in your own life now.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had a little look at what that little section might have meant then, and so maybe we could look at what does it mean now?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in our different stages of life there'll be different things that are are relevant.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are in there we go.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're in a culture now, I don't know if you agree, that's really focused on our own autonomy.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Not so different from the Corinthians.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we're told that we shouldn't care what anybody else thinks, we're free to live our lives as we want, and if people are offended by what we're doing or how we're living, then that's their problem and it's not our problem.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: But Paul is saying that there are actually scenarios as Christians where we should.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Dan's car, hard in.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But Paul is saying that there are scenarios as Christians where we should care what people think because our motive should be to love them, uh love, sorry, love them as Jesus loves them.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he's always really concerned with the people who don't know Jesus yet, um, and the and the people who are newer Christians, and he wants more people to be saved.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's always his main priority and his main um main concern.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I've like literally as I was properly this, I've thought of maybe four modern-day scenarios, and later I'll get you to think of your own.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, scenario number one.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when my parents were in their early 20s, they moved to a rural part of Scotland as Salvation Army officers, and one of their main um work, so what am I calling one of the main the main work that they did um was to work with alcoholics and drug addicts, and that was the main focus of their outreach.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually grew up with my parents being teetotal.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now it wasn't that if they saw another Christian drink that they went, oh my goodness, that's so sinful! Like, how dare you drink um a glass of wine?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, they didn't go, okay, like we're fine, we know we can drink in moderation, we know that just one drink is not a sin.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: They were very aware that actually, if they were visibly drinking in front of the people, the new Christians that they were trying to support through the recovery process, that that was really unhelpful to them.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, their motivation was quite unselfish, their motivation was love, and while they were doing that work, they chose to be teetotal because they were aware of how their actions affected others, okay, rather than being motivated by their freedom from law and legalism.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, another modern-day example.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking back to when I went to university at 17, full freedom, I was very excited.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd gone out with my friends to a nightclub in Glasgow, if you can picture that, um, and I decided not to drink.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and anyone that actually knows me will know that it takes zero alcohol or zero anything for me to get up on the dance floor.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was having a wonderful time, sober me.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next morning one of my flatmates went, Oh, I mean, you were wasted last night, weren't you?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh, actually, I really wasn't.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: But then I realised what had happened is them seeing me going to a place where everyone was drunk around me, where people generally would go to drink and take drugs, had made them conclude that I was doing the same.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And although I hadn't technically done anything wrong, I became aware that people earlier in their face, or people who did not know Jesus yet, would he could easily watch me and go, Oh well, Rebecca's a Christian, I know she's a Christian, and she's like at nightclubs, so I can do the same.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh gosh, maybe I should actually be quite aware of where I am and what I'm doing.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe in Bristol, I would say maybe our more direct kind of connection with what was going on in the pagan world of Corinth, is I would say actually Bristol is a very curious place with lots of different spirituality and engagement with witchcraft and different things.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we might be like the Corinthians and say, Well, we know there's one true God, we know that these things don't hold the same power, but actually, again, if we're engaging with those things, it might be unhelpful to the people that don't yet know Jesus who are looking um looking on in terms of their journey.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can see a Christian doing that, so I think it's okay for me to do the same.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this is basically, in essence, what Paul is saying.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was very protective of newer Christians and those that did not yet know Jesus, and he was always appealing to the Corinthians.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just consider the people around you and the witness that you are giving?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you move on to chapter 10, the believer's freedom.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is one of my, I think it's a fantastic verse.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have the right to do anything you say.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they've obviously quoted that in.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have the right to do anything you say, but not everything is beneficial.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have the right to do anything, but not everything is constructive.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: No one should seek their own good but the good of others.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this is very similar to what Paul had said in chapter six around sexual immorality.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have the right to do anything you say, but not everything is beneficial.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have the right to do anything, but I will not be mastered by anything.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he's using the same language again here.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like in Corinth, we are in a society today where we have lots of rights and we have lots of freedoms.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have the right to speak freely, but what we say could hurt people.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have the right to stay up till 2 a.m.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: doom scrolling, but it's probably not great for our mental health, you know, and then legally, you know, you do legally have the right to take lots of sexual partners, but that's not necessarily beneficial to you.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we often want really black and white clear rules, which is why so many Christians find these sorts of teachings really frustrating, because they want to know, you know, what ex what exact line can I go to?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how what what what does the Bible say about this specific thing?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: What instruction does it give about that?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: But in Corinthians, we're given a set of guiding principles that help us and helped the Corinthians make their own judgments.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there are two principles which are given by Paul to help us.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So one we've looked at already, and that is love.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: The core principle is love.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: The motivation behind those principles needs to be love because Jesus has shown us sacrificial love, and we should show that love to others.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second one is that our actions should glorify God.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the second principle is something that Paul talks about a little bit more in chapter 10.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Paul readdresses, can't speak to him, readdresses the issue of idolatry and food sacrificed to idols through the lens of glorifying God.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the fact that he uses lots of rhetorical questions and presents a very rational argument.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I speak to the sensible people, judge for yourselves what I say.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is this not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks our participation in the blood of Christ?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And is not the bread that we break our participation in the body of Christ, because there is one loaf.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: We who are many are one body, for we all share one loaf.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: When we take the bread and the wine, he's saying, it might just literally be a piece of bread and wine, and nothing holy and nothing special, and at Woody's, it's some grape juice, probably, and some bread from Tesco's.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing, you know, magical in it, but the intention behind it, I think we'd all agree, is quite important.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we take communion or the Lord's Supper, there's a participation in the blood of Christ and a participation in the body of Christ.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we're remembering Jesus' sacrifice for us, we're confessing, we're thanking him, we're engaging in an act of worship as a community and coming to the presence of God.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Paul's then saying, okay, apply that same logic to food sacrificed to idols.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's being quite intellectual with it, he's being quite reasonable and applying reason.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Apply that same logic to the food sacrificed to idols.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, at the end of the day, it's all just food and animals, and food are ultimately created by God, and idols hold no real power.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: But in the temple they are offered a sacrifice to idols, and pagan worship in those times offered sacrifices to demons.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he's like, Why, like, why do you want to participate in that?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, gone.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, there we go.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why like why would you want to participate in that?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I've totally lost my place, so bear with me while I get to the end.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've gone right to the top.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 39:43
  unknown: There we go, okay.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, our loyalty is to Jesus who sacrified his life for us.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he's like, okay, you can do that, but why would you want to?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: As humans, we always want to go to the line, and especially if we can logic and reason away our actions intellectually, but that's not really what should be motivating us.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Paul's summarising his guiding principles really beautifully right at the end of the chapter.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: What he's essentially saying is he concludes that we should all be imitators of Christ.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: He says, so whether you eat all good, or whether you do it all for the glory of God, do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks, or the Church of God, even as I try to please everyone in every way, for I am not seeking my own good, but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know what translation you had, but it had a lovely sentence at the end that kind of um talked more about imitating Christ.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But these are essentially the two guiding principles that he's telling us to live our lives by and telling the Corinthians to live their lives by.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a lovely place to end.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a discussion question that I'd love you to have a look at, and that is basically based on everything that we've looked at in chapter 8 and chapter 10.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, it wasn't everything, because it's two of us.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: How can we apply the core principles that Paul teaches us about loving others and glorifying God to some of the divisive issues around how we live our lives as Christians today?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So quite a big topic.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: You've got about five minutes to uh try and tackle that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So good luck, and then there'll be a QA after with myself, Tim and Catherine.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_08: It's to ask ask questions.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_08: It's it's a big long we read six chapters tonight, and I know there's some bits there we've tried to cover.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, there may be some things that either um uh Rebecca or Catherine have said that you want to ask some questions about, or maybe there's some bits that we read that you've got questions about that we didn't cover.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_08: So uh we've got like ten minutes for any questions that you'd like to ask.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_08: Any of us?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_08: Uh all right, passage.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_08: Anything people would like to ask at all.
• 42:04
  unknown: Yeah, can Christians?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it has been prayed over in a certain way.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's been prayed over and um I think I I read something or I watched something that was saying how it is okay to eat allow meat, um but it's more about whether you want to support that action with you know monetary rights and if that's what you want to support, I just thought it'd be interesting to hear about this.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would say it's almost like you apply exactly the same principles as he's talking about with the temple, where it's like actually, if you doing that and doing that publicly gives a certain message that is unhelpful for people watching, then that's probably not a great thing to do.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or as to say, if you're doing it in support of something, if you're going to someone's house that I went to, Bangladesh, where sometimes that was offered because that is what was available, and I wasn't in that moment going to be rude and not eat the food that was offered to me.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think with all of these things, I would say context is really important and is the motive behind it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you yourself doing it as an act of worship?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And are onlookers going to think that you're doing it as a certain act of worship because that might be unhelpful in their journey.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are they people that are converting or recently converted from another faith where they are eating halal meat, or are they kind of people that don't believe yet where that might give a mixed message?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think to hold it in that way would be my advice and literally by what Paul is saying about the food set for us to idols.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you have any other.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_08: I don't think in itself, it's like what Paul's saying in itself, it's kind of I think probably one of the times I've actually bought halal meat was that when it had uh it was chicken that had a yellow sticker on.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_08: And it was half the price.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_08: I never thought about how it was killed or whatever.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_08: I just thought, this is cheaper.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_08: It's chicken.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_08: I guess it as a as chicken.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_08: I I didn't use it as something that had been offered in a halal kind of way.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_08: So I think probably whereas if there's an issue, if there's a an issue made about it, then maybe not.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_08: If people are kind of so, but as far as chicken is chicken.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_08: I missed my I yet it.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_07: Just to say, the church we go to, we we hold a couple of peace feasts every year.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_07: And many of the people who come into the church will uh will be Muslim and will have a faith that it is different to ours.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_07: They willingly come in, they love coming in for this peace feast.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_07: We buy halal meat because we know it won't, it they will be able to feel part of what we do.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_07: And I think there are there are times when we can use that for loving others and expressing our love to the community, which we did.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_07: They would know it's not anything for us, and we it that doesn't mean anything to us, but it shows respect to them, I think.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_08: It's the same at food bank, we have we have halal options at food banks because if they fans arrive who are from other countries and want halal, actually it's again it's just respectful to the cultures to actually Karen.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um something that's funny to mind for me was I think it depends on people, but also the summit might depend on their viewer, ethics or damn care because there's a lot in scriptures about ethical education and how they can't animals and some people might take issues to yeah, how these animals have been disordered and sort of places that they can't learn.
• 45:49
  unknown: But that is a bit of a capital.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so for me, for me, I'm thinking about the more ethical point of view.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_08: I think that's why it's quite an interesting way in which Paul's trying to navigate here is that some things that you think actually yeah, how we treat animals.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_08: Again, different Christians may think different things around how animals should be treated.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_08: And again, it's it's it's where your conscience lies, I think that it's okay.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_08: Any other questions about anything else?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um what you mean when you put a weak conscience?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, obviously, weak, or just like um like a child when it's like fair enough.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I more interpreted it as people who are like maybe like newer to faith or don't don't believe yet, where they that might be a temptation for them, or that might be an area that's more difficult than then for then for the Korean's that have written in.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than them going, well, I'm fine and I know that I won't be tempted in this way, is to think about the others.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess if you use the direct example of with my parents working with people in recovery, actually that's not a helpful thing for them because that's their struggle, and just because that's not a struggle for them, that would be quite selfish if then to do you see what I'm saying?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I read weak conscience, is that yeah, yeah, I think yeah, yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_08: There's three consciences the Bible talks about.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_08: It talks about the uh the weak conscience, the good conscience, and the seared conscience.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_08: Um and I think those it's just quite interesting to so so um the seared conscience is that you do things that are wrong, and the Holy Spirit tries to prompt you through your conscience that's wrong, and you say, No, it's not, I'm gonna do it, no, it's not gonna do it, and eventually your conscience is seared, you're not sensitive to what's wrong.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_08: And so you so anything you think is right, although it's wrong.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_08: Um, a weak conscience is maybe you're oversensitized.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_08: So you, oh, I I think this might be wrong, oh I think this might be wrong, oh I think this might be wrong, and your consciousness is weaker because it's kind of it's it's like a barometer that senses sin, your sinometer is quite strong.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_08: This could be sin, this could be a sin, this could be a sin.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_08: And that's in some ways, that's a weak conscience because it's not functioning like a good conscience, and a good conscience helps you to be able to, as you mature as a Christian, kind of your conscience should mature to have a good conscience to say, actually, yeah, this is this is definitely a sin, this is definitely good.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, this uh can be yeah, a matter of opinion, and and that's how a good conscience should work.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_08: I think that's what I want to say.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_08: And yeah, yeah.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_09: What about people who have been Christians for a long time and they still believe that we shouldn't be eating these foods?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_09: Wouldn't it be an opportunity for us to explain Corinthians to them and explain that it doesn't really matter?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about 50 years they've been Christian, so they're not all Christians.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I think I think I think I think dialogue's helpful.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_08: I think insisting, um, and I think that's what why cause them to stumble is that if you say, I think you're definitely wrong, I think you should grow up, I think uh and actually they're actually I'm I'm trying to serve Jesus and I'm trying to take this seriously.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, you're violating uh their consciousness.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_08: I think is what Paul was kind of trying to say.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and and it's so important to do it all in love, isn't it?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_05: I mean that's that's his priority to do it in love.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: So it may, for some people it may not be helpful to you know really really get told them and just explain.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_09: It's a hard one.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_08: Any other topics that kind of we want to yeah, David.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um in a practical sense, going back to chapter five, have you ever had to consider how you would actively hand someone over to Satan?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that's a great have you ever had it sort of.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_08: I mean it it's an interesting, so so uh he's referring to Jesus, so it's Jesus' teaching in in Matthew's gospel.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_08: Jesus says, if you if your brother is sinning, if you love them enough, not if you're fed up and hate them, if you love them enough, you'll go and challenge them.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_08: Not to not to be judgmental and harsh, but to try and win your brother back.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_08: And then Jesus says, if he doesn't listen to you, find two other two or three other people who, not two or three other people who hate them as well, but two other of you who love them as well.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_08: And actually, and go as as two or three of you to try and win them back.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_08: And actually, if they don't do that, hand them, tell the church, and don't respond to the church, then hand them over to Satan, which is outside that kind of biodome, a bit like in go down to the Eden project in in Cornwall.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_08: There's there's a there's a dome there, inside the dome, all kinds of plants can grow.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_08: Outside the dome, you get the cornish wind and the and the rain and and kind of and it's a bit like in the church, being part of the family.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_08: There's something about God's love and care that it's an environment.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_08: And actually, but if you if you keep on sinning and aren't being prepared to be challenged, put them outside of the biodome, put them outside, hand them over to rather than God's family to Satan, to be taught not to blaspheme, it says in in 1 Timothy, so that they come back in.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_08: So, but the again, I think like Record was saying, the end it always has to be about love, it's not about showing who's right, kind of uh judge being judgmental and harsh to people.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_08: Uh and unfortunately, I have seen that happen in in some churches before, which is really unhelpful.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, but it should it should always be loving and and treat them like an outsider, Jesus says.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_08: How do you treat someone who's an outsider?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_08: You don't kind of put the phone down on them across the street when you see them, you kind of invite them to Alpha.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_08: You kind of you you you have hospital, you welcome.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_08: Jesus had many meals with with tax collectors and sinners, um, and that's how we should treat them as sinners.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_08: So handing them to Satan is not necessarily despising and hating them, but it's treating them in a different kind of way.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_08: Um yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_10: Expanding them from the church.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_08: At some point, yeah, we did have an instance in this church when someone who became a Christian and um again they came from a slightly troubled background uh where um with an addictive addictive kind of trouble, and and they used to steal from people's handbags in church.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_08: Um and we're telling him, look, you can't you can't come to church and you can't steal from people's bags.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_08: Um and and kind of uh he carried on doing it.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_08: So again, three or four of us went to see him, and eventually we had to announce to the church, actually, uh many of you know so and so.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_08: Uh it's great they came to find Jesus.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, at the moment, uh they're not taking our advice, and actually they are seeing people's kind of actually uh if he comes, we're probably asking not to come to church at the moment.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_08: So do maintain contact with him, but actually, we're saying on Sundays, you're not welcome here.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, just to teach him not to do that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_08: And and and over that process, he did come back to the Lord, which has been great, but uh retaps are one more question.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, Handy.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_06: There are lots of statements on letters that sometimes are uncomfortable reading.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_06: And sometimes it's helpful in the topics, and they are statements that uh we don't see that in response to their questions.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes they're not shouldn't read the topics.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_06: How do we know what the statements are?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_05: There's no there's very little punctuation in age and green, so there's no speech in Greek.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I think other passages where there's more disagreement about where those come.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_05: So I think I think the bits that we've looked at tonight, it feels quite clear that those are quotes, but it is always a little bit of interpretation.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, sometimes it just if they're not quotes, it just doesn't really make sense because he's contradicting himself.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, it's interesting.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_08: And sometimes they are slogans and similar kind of things maybe can be found in other kinds of writings of the of the time.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_08: So like big common slang, so they might kind of uh you might find them in other other kinds of places as well.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_08: Great.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_08: What we want to do is uh thanks very much.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe the round applause for these two.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_08: Um yeah, each time we just want to um just take a little moment to shift gear.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_08: So Bible School uh is a little bit about um uh studying, grappling with a text.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_08: Um uh but we just want to finish by just uh taking a little moment to um uh to uh look at the scripture in a slightly different way, where we're saying how does this scripture um change us?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_08: How does it affect us?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_08: How does it how does it work?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_08: So um I'm gonna start off by just the person next to you.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, can you recognise those chocolates by their shape?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, okay, so what do we what do we think this one is?
• 54:25
  unknown: The green one.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_08: It's the green one.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_08: What is it?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_08: It's chocolate with hazel nepraline in it.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_08: This one.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_08: This one here.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_08: This one here.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_08: Hazel.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_08: This one.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_08: There we go.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_08: Um I wonder whether if people looked at your life and the shape of your life, would they be able to guess straight away that you're a Jesus-shaped person?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_08: And in some ways that's what one prince is talking about.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, one Crythe is talking about is it are you a Jesus-shaped person?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_08: Are you somebody, are you somebody that um when people look at you, they recognize Jesus?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_08: That's a big question, isn't it?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_08: That's a bit that's in some ways that's what Paul, in all these things we've been looking at, actually, that's the kind of question he's saying, is actually if the church in Corinth is going to do its business and the life of Jesus vibrantly is going to affect those trade routes, actually, you should be somebody who people recognise.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_08: Um why?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_08: Because God has revealed in Jesus his genuine model for humanity.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_08: And there are certain ways of behaving that just don't fit.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_08: It doesn't fit into the Jesus shape.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_08: If you've got to live a Jesus-shaped life, actually there's certain things that just don't fit.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_08: Now, as we listen to those six chapters, I don't know if there's some bits you thought, ah, that's just a little bit awkward.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe that seems a little bit harsh.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe this was a bit that you thought when it was read out.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_08: Do not be deceived, neither sexually moral, neither the adulteress, nor the uh adulterers, nor men have sex with men, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slamers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, that is what some of you were, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus by the Spirit of God.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_08: And again, that was ah that's gonna rule everyone out.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_08: Who's gonna get the kingdom of God?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_08: If if those now actually that's what you were.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, that's what you were.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_08: You were those kind of people.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, but those kind of behaviors actually don't fit into the Jesus shape.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_08: These things stop you becoming the person God wants for you to be.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_08: It's not like a judgmental, harsh list of you're bad, you're bad, you're bad, you're bad, you're you're actually no, actually, these things are gonna genuinely stop you becoming Jesus-shaped in the way that you live.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_08: And actually, if if you continue to do these things, actually you're gonna disqualify yourself.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_08: You're gonna disqualify yourself from from being like Jesus and disqualify yourself from having a Jesus-shaped life that other people could recognize.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_08: And and so the the deal is that um you have that there's a there's a choice for you to make.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_08: Now you might think, well, if actually some of you were like that, but you encountered Jesus and it said you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, when you come to Jesus, you find that although you may have once upon a time been that, actually, now because of Jesus, you can be forgiven, you can be cleansed, you can be put right with God, actually you can be justified.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, justified means you can stand before God and he looks at you and he sees nothing apart from Jesus.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_08: He sees, he doesn't see your anger, he doesn't see your hatred, he doesn't see your jealousy or your adultery or your lying.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, we're justified.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_08: We stand before God and he just sees Jesus.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_08: And that's wonderful.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_08: And that's what helped us become Jesus-shaped people.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_08: Um, which is why when they go on to say, kind of, well, actually, uh, if I'm forgiven, actually, I maybe I can just carry on doing what I want to do.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_08: I have I have kind of I have the right to do every anything because God will forgive me.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, but not everything's beneficial.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_08: But no, no, no, I have I can be I can do this and live this kind of life, and I can just my prayers at the end of the day say, Jesus forgive me, don't forgive me.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, but actually, you you're being mastered by something that's not helpful.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and and then again, it's the little kind of saying that food is for the stomach, stomach's for the food, God destroys them both.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, God made us with a desire for food, he gave us a stomach to enjoy food.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, the the kind of and what Paul was getting at, actually, you might say as well, God's made the body sexual, so of course he's made the body for sex.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_08: So we should be having enough of it, a lot of it, because God's made our bodies to be sexual.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_08: And he said, Well, actually, no, the body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality, actually, it's meant for the Lord.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_08: How you handle those lists of things, actually, how you handle your sexuality is a is a something you bring that under the lordship of Jesus, and for each one of us, however you may self-define your sexuality, at some point that needs to come under the lordship of Jesus.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_08: Jesus is God's got a dream for you for the best kind of human being you can be, and it's the Jesus-shaped human being.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_08: But it what we do with our body affects the way that um uh we become Christ-like.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_08: Which is why this little verse is one of my favourite verses in Corinthians.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_08: It says this, don't you know that your body, a temple's a Holy Spirit?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_08: So your body that can be used for adultery, for lying, for cheating, for getting drunk, um, indulging all kinds of things.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, you might say, Oh, God will forgive me, but actually, don't you know?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_08: The amazing reality is your body, my body, it's like a temple of the Holy Spirit.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, the Holy Spirit is in you.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_08: The God who's everywhere, who created this universe, who um tomorrow evening we're gonna see the solar eclipse and be amazed once again at the geometry of how God created our solar system.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, that God, through Jesus, is now living in you within your body.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_08: So, why do I use this body for all kinds of rubbish stuff when actually God's Holy Spirit is in it?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_08: I only get one temple.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_08: This is it.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_08: And when I find Jesus, his Holy Spirit is in here.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_08: So, how I use my body, how I treat my body, those kind of things on that list are just not helpful for this body to be conformed to the likeness of Jesus.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_08: Because you're not your own now.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, I can do what I want and Jesus will forgive me.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, no, you're not your own.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, you've bought at a price, a very expensive price.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_08: Jesus died on the cross.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_08: And do you treat with respect the life that Jesus gave to win the Jesus kind of life that could be in you?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_08: Or are you just gonna say, well, I'll just do whatever I like because God will forgive me in the end?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_08: Because therefore honor God with your bodies.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_08: And if it's a little meditation to go away with, whether it's to do with eating food or tribals or the way we handle our sexuality and our sexual activity, actually how do we honour God with our bodies, with our choices?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_08: And in some ways, that's the message that Paul wants the Quintine's church to learn.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, that's the message that he wants to teach us to learn.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_08: Are you becoming a true human being God always imagined you could be?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_08: And that's being conformed with the image of Jesus.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_08: And those kind of things on that list are just things that actually you're not going to inherit the life of Jesus if you just carry on those kinds of things.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_08: But we can be washed, we can be cleansed, we can find it, we can realise that his Holy Spirit dwells in us.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_08: And so I'd just like to take a little chance to pray as we finish.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_08: There's lots of things we've been talking about.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_08: And things you might have lots of questions to get away with, and you might still do some more study, but just now, that question.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_08: If people looked at you, would they recognise Jesus?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_08: And maybe if you think that it actually answers to me, no, to be washed, to be sanctified, to be justified.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_08: We can come to Jesus and say, Jesus, will you forgive me?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_08: Jesus, will you help me where I've been living my life?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_08: It's been on my rights, it's been on my terms.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_08: I've done what I wanted and then I'll forgive us afterwards.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_08: It's not really the first for the kingdom, it's not really the living first for your glory.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_08: It's not really the living first for love.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you, Jesus, that you want to be.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_08: As we navigate some of these social issues, as we analyze ourselves, as we encourage and help other people around about us to be more like you, Jesus.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_08: We grow to be strong enough, in terms of who you are, who you all are.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_08: In the way that we talk, in the way that we act, in the way that we love.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_08: I don't know if last week you had a uh a memory verse.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_08: We just said, pick your own.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, this week, maybe we could I could suggest that one.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_08: I as a teenager I committed that to memory, and I just think it's a great little verse to commit to memory, to remind yourself.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, this body is a temple value spirit.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_08: Actually, I've been bought it a price, a wonderful price.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_08: How am I going to honour God with the physicality who God made with me, my sexuality, my resources, my character, my personality?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_08: How can I order God with our with your body?
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_08: So maybe see if you can uh if you if you um if you signed up with that little QR code, uh I'll send you the PowerPoint and the audio from this evening.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_08: Um uh and yeah, that'll be Dan.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_08: Is anything