Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh Deah 132:1-2. Libations: Selling Kosher Wine To Non-Jews; Gifting Non-Kosher Wine To Non-Jews, p1.

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Yoreh Deah 132:1-2. Libations: Selling Kosher Wine To Non-Jews; Gifting Non-Kosher Wine To Non-Jews, p1. · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:01
  OK, good morning. Continuing yen NASA KUF lamid
• 0:06
  bet. So we're going to start with CF
• 0:09
  olive. I'm just going to start out open
• 0:11
  the with one question that thanks to Rob Gershom Kerrigan
• 0:16
  Kagan asked last week and Oliver Friedman from Arkabura.
• 0:23
  So he also both asked what happens if you get a bottle of
• 0:27
  wine, a non kosher bottle of wine and right staminum regular
• 0:33
  case of real staminum. It's mamush asur.
• 0:36
  Can you now regift? You got it as a gift from
• 0:42
  someone. Can you regift it now to a non
• 0:45
  Jew? So we learned staminum is asur
• 0:50
  behna. You can't even get any benefit.
• 0:52
  So can you regift it? So Oliver pointed out that he
• 1:00
  and his brother-in-law had a Mahalocus.
• 1:03
  One thought it was Mutter, one thought it was Asse.
• 1:06
  One of them is Ashkenazi, one of them is Spartak.
• 1:10
  Let's see if that has any anything to do with it.
• 1:14
  And it reminds me of a story. Once I got a bottle of wine that
• 1:18
  I wanted to give as a gift to regift it Astaminum to one of my
• 1:23
  employees and an Andre and when I opened up the trunk of my SUV
• 1:30
  so it rolled out and fell onto the floor and broke.
• 1:34
  I'm not saying that has any bearing on the halacha, but OK,
• 1:39
  I'll explain to you also why it's somewhat relevant because
• 1:42
  then there was an element of rod said the Kiyumo and I like now I
• 1:48
  was like, I already told the, the assistant, I'm giving you a
• 1:51
  bottle of wine. And as we were looking, we saw
• 1:56
  as as I opened up the car, we, we saw the bottle roll out and
• 2:00
  smash to the floor. And then it was like, now do I
• 2:03
  owe you a, another bottle of wine?
• 2:06
  So let's, let's see. So I think we saw pretty clearly
• 2:11
  that halakhi according to the Rahman and so should be
• 2:15
  according to certainly at least according to Ashkenazi that
• 2:19
  nowadays, since when you're making when they make wine, the
• 2:23
  owners generally can generally assume are not doing yeah
• 2:27
  nessach anymore. So therefore the Rama holds
• 2:31
  right talking about Christians, then it would only be an esser
• 2:37
  of shdiya. It's never going to be aser MI
• 2:39
  darabana now. I mean, generally it's not going
• 2:41
  to be aser gahana nowadays. So therefore it's only an esser
• 2:46
  isdiya and there's no question whatsoever.
• 2:48
  It's 100% mother. What about according to the
• 2:51
  sholkhanar? So simple reading of the
• 2:54
  sholkhanar. It should definitely be us
• 2:57
  because he holds Tamiya. Generally Muslims and atheists
• 3:03
  are not running most of the wineries.
• 3:04
  But again it depends if it's AI, don't know if it's permitted but
• 3:08
  if it's a Muslim winery or an atheist winery.
• 3:11
  So then it would only be us or bishtiya as well.
• 3:13
  Wouldn't be a problem. But generally I think we assume
• 3:17
  your general bottle of non kosher wine is by someone who I
• 3:20
  believe the road would be Christian and therefore it might
• 3:24
  be it would be Asar Behana according to the Chauhanar.
• 3:27
  So if it's Asar Behana, are you allowed to give it as a gift to
• 3:32
  a non Jew? So you're not certainly against
• 3:34
  sell it, but can you give it as a gift?
• 3:37
  So just so the three main problems that could come up is a
• 3:45
  lot to Hanim giving a gift to a non Jew wrote said Bikyumo.
• 3:49
  There is a Sir Darabanan of wanting Ye Nessa to stay in
• 3:54
  existence and told us Hana of getting benefit.
• 4:00
  Even when you give a gift for free, you are still receiving
• 4:06
  some kind of benefit in return. Now the guy owes you a favor.
• 4:10
  So the guy's owing you something so you you're benefiting from.
• 4:13
  Now the guy owes you some kind of a favor in return, and
• 4:17
  therefore there could be an Ester of Ester Hana.
• 4:20
  So regarding. So there's two reasons why it
• 4:23
  may be a mother #1 generally or many hold that if you're giving
• 4:30
  a gift to a neighbor, an employee, someone who's going to
• 4:35
  is going to now owe you a favor or going to be now it's going to
• 4:41
  work for you even harder because you did something nice to him.
• 4:43
  There's no esser of Lotakhani. Lotakhani means it's a free gift
• 4:48
  of making extra kindness between neighbors.
• 4:51
  I mean, not neighbors. A non Jew when you're just
• 4:56
  you're giving a gift to a non Jew when there's no, when you're
• 4:58
  not receiving anything in return.
• 5:01
  Another reason why it might be a mutter of not a problem of
• 5:05
  Lotakhanim, it was. Many say there's only an isser
• 5:08
  of Lotakhanim. If you're losing something,
• 5:11
  you're losing value and you're giving it to Anandju.
• 5:14
  Here we're talking about isser Hana.
• 5:16
  So you're not losing anything. And if you're losing nothing,
• 5:19
  some say there's no isser Lotakhanim whatsoever.
• 5:22
  OK, we mentioned the concept of rotse bikiyumo and we're going
• 5:25
  to see that coming up soon. So I believe I didn't see this
• 5:28
  maforesh, so I don't know 100%, but I believe there's only an
• 5:32
  issue an isser derabanan of rotsebikiyumo with Yein nessa,
• 5:38
  because Yein Nessa has Domita Varezara and therefore hazal
• 5:42
  roser. But my our case is Stam yenam.
• 5:46
  So I'm not aware that there's an issue of rotsebikiyumo by Stam
• 5:50
  yenam. Yeah, we'll see it soon.
• 5:54
  It's coming up. I doubt today, but it's coming
• 5:58
  up very soon. Tovas Hana.
• 6:01
  Now, what about getting benefit? So perhaps it's OK and I don't
• 6:04
  know for sure. Perhaps it's OK if you tell the
• 6:06
  guy I am not this item, it's us or for me it's forbidden for me
• 6:11
  to benefit. But instead of throwing it in
• 6:13
  the garbage, I'm giving it to you because because I don't want
• 6:17
  to. I don't want to waste it.
• 6:19
  You don't owe me anything, but I'm just giving it to you.
• 6:21
  So I don't have a definite knowledge either way, but that
• 6:27
  perhaps it's OK. Maybe someone else can enlighten
• 6:30
  us. And finally, there's always the
• 6:34
  concept we mentioned of sphake sveka.
• 6:37
  If just throwing it out there, I'm not no no socks over here.
• 6:41
  But according to Sparta Kalaka, it may be mutter, perhaps
• 6:46
  because maybe halacha is like the Rama and you have other
• 6:50
  other issues that might make it mutter.
• 6:53
  But but Simply put, it's it's definitely more problematic for
• 6:59
  someone started, that's for sure.
• 7:01
  OK, thanks. OK, so let's start inside Kuf
• 7:08
  lammedbet seif alef gear. OK, so now you don't want to get
• 7:14
  any benefit from Yeh Nessaf, right?
• 7:16
  Yeh nessaf, we said is asar behanaha.
• 7:19
  So what happens? Goy Ovid elim shinagabi yayin
• 7:22
  shilanu. So we're talking about our
• 7:25
  personal wine that right now it's you have kosher wine now.
• 7:31
  But he came and he touched it. He did something to it that made
• 7:33
  it asur behana. And again, this is according to
• 7:36
  the Shukhana, if not according to the Rama analogies.
• 7:39
  So ananju touches the wine makes it asur behana, Alpha P.
• 7:49
  You can now go to the goy and say you just touched my wine and
• 7:53
  here let me give it to you, but please pay me in return because
• 7:57
  I'm giving you good wine, you know.
• 8:00
  But he did it on purpose or on by mistake, makes no difference.
• 8:04
  The shock says that. So anyways, the goy, he damaged
• 8:08
  your wine by touching it, now he made it has no value for you.
• 8:13
  It's Asar Behna. So you can go to him and say
• 8:16
  here, take the wine, they give me the value for it and you're
• 8:19
  allowed to take that money. And that that money is 100%
• 8:22
  mutter because you're not doing this.
• 8:24
  You're only getting the money in return, not because you're
• 8:27
  selling the wine, because he's giving you money for his damage.
• 8:32
  And that's mutter. It already became user.
• 8:36
  It wasn't an exchange of one for the other at the same time you
• 8:40
  weren't selling it. And now the transfer of this or
• 8:43
  not goes on to the money. It's he's just paying you back
• 8:47
  right now for the damages after the fact.
• 8:50
  If you manufacture the one to pay you the amount of cost of
• 8:54
  the. Manufacturing you're a loss.
• 8:56
  So whatever he pays you, whatever you can get out of them
• 8:59
  to get to return your Hezek muttar likak damov melto agoy
• 9:04
  shastra O oto hagoy in Karenu, the eating damov la Israel or
• 9:10
  the non Jew can take the wine from you, go sell it in a store
• 9:16
  and then hit whatever he gets in return.
• 9:18
  That money he gives to you maybe a little bit less for his tirka,
• 9:24
  whatever, whatever. But that's not the point.
• 9:26
  The issue over here we're talking about is the money
• 9:28
  mutter asser. The money is 100% mutter because
• 9:32
  what he's giving you is not really an exchange for the item.
• 9:36
  He's just paying you back his clothes his that he owes you for
• 9:40
  the damages. However.
• 9:45
  But now let's say you're holding on.
• 9:47
  You have this bottle of wine that's open or this barrel,
• 9:50
  whatever, and the goy touched it, he made it Asar Behana.
• 9:53
  And now and now that goy leaves, he's out of the picture.
• 9:56
  Now you're stuck with this barrel of wine that's Asar
• 10:00
  Behana. What can you do?
• 10:02
  If you go and try and bring it to sell to a donju, what you're
• 10:06
  doing is you're selling an A perfect exchange of your isarna
• 10:10
  for money. So you natano Hamad kodim
• 10:13
  shiitenoyi sralyain Hama OT asurin behana.
• 10:17
  So if you sell it and he gives you the money 1st and you sell
• 10:25
  it, when you sell it, the boy is giving you the cash, He's giving
• 10:28
  you the money, whatever it is, and that money is for that wine.
• 10:31
  So that's the when he gives you the money, Maud Konos, we're
• 10:36
  talking about ananju. Again, when you do have the BA
• 10:40
  or handover money, that's the full Kenyan either way.
• 10:43
  So he's giving you the money and that money is in a complete
• 10:46
  exchange, and therefore that money becomes Asur Bahana
• 10:50
  transfers over. So you don't sell it like that.
• 10:56
  But when you sell it to the goy and you tell him, here, take the
• 10:59
  barrel, take the bottle of wine, and then he takes it.
• 11:02
  So now he owns it. And that was the Kenyan.
• 11:06
  Now after the fact, a minute later, a second later, an hour
• 11:11
  later, what a day later, whatever it is now the goy owes
• 11:14
  you money for this sale. So now and now the guy is giving
• 11:22
  you the cash, the money. So then it happened after the
• 11:26
  fact and he's like paying you back almost like a loan type of
• 11:30
  thing. Now he's paying you back.
• 11:32
  It's not a complete exchange. So then, so then he says, since
• 11:43
  you're doing this as a Khazal gave a Kanas, technically it's
• 11:47
  not Mamash Asar with this kind of delayed exchange in this
• 11:51
  order. So then it's only Asar Kanas on
• 11:56
  for the own for the one who sold it, because you shouldn't.
• 11:59
  We don't want you selling this wine.
• 12:01
  Try and get it back from the one who ruined it.
• 12:04
  That's for for anybody else, technically it's the mutter and
• 12:08
  there's no Kanas, so therefore there's no problem.
• 12:10
  And then Hada just reminds us what we said before of Akosa
• 12:13
  Lomari. This only applies to non Jews
• 12:18
  who are still doing nowadays about Bisma Nazeer nowadays
• 12:22
  Kolmaga Shalam Eno Saraka Bishtia, it's only Astra
• 12:26
  Bishtia. So there's no issues over here
• 12:28
  of reselling it. OK.
• 12:31
  As far as making business, that's another story we'll come
• 12:33
  to, but just for the sake of individual barrels and bottles
• 12:38
  to not lose your money, there's no problem whatsoever.
• 12:43
  All right, let's do bet. Bet is how to sell kosher wine
• 12:49
  to a non Jew. OK, because you want to be
• 12:52
  careful when you when you're selling it, you don't make it
• 12:55
  usser in the process and then it becomes usser behana in the
• 12:58
  process and then you can't benefit from the money.
• 13:00
  So we have to be a little bit careful because you know, we're
• 13:03
  dealing with, let's say an open bottle of wine and you have to
• 13:08
  be take plane with fire a little bit.
• 13:10
  So how do we do it? A Jew wants to sell his bottle
• 13:15
  of wine to Ananchu. So pasak anchilo mashak.
• 13:19
  So what you want to first do is make sure before the boy gets to
• 13:22
  his to the to the wine before you can touch it and do it and
• 13:26
  pick it up, make sure you make a complete agreement.
• 13:29
  What are you doing? What's the price?
• 13:31
  OK, how much, whether it's per liter or the per bottle,
• 13:36
  whatever it is, what's the price?
• 13:38
  So then Damav Mutaim. So then when you sell it, the
• 13:43
  wine's going to be 100% motor. So Misha Pasak samhadaito Misha
• 13:49
  Misha. So what happens as long as you
• 13:53
  make an agreement and you know what bottle of what amount
• 13:56
  you're selling it for? So then the deal is is solid.
• 14:00
  And then and everyone has semikos das, everyone knows,
• 14:04
  agrees to the deal. And then when the goy lifts up
• 14:08
  and takes the bottle of wine, even if it's open, it's not a
• 14:12
  problem because when before he touched it, they already had,
• 14:20
  they agreed on everything. And as he lifts it up, that's
• 14:24
  the Kenyan and you can give him money.
• 14:26
  That's one option first. The other option is he can lift
• 14:29
  it. Once you make an agreement, he
• 14:31
  can lift it up as when, as he first lifts it up, it's not us
• 14:35
  or yet, only with time, not much time, but with time it's going
• 14:41
  to be us. But initially, but basically
• 14:45
  when you're lifting it up, I believe it's you're Kona it
• 14:50
  before. Well you are Kona it before it
• 14:54
  it can be reached an isser, the level of isser of Stam yenam.
• 14:59
  I don't know if it happens simultaneously or a few seconds
• 15:03
  before, but either way it's not a problem.
• 15:05
  It doesn't. There's no isser created until
• 15:08
  he already owns it. So I'm not sure if there's
• 15:11
  enough Camino which way you look at it, but it can't become yay
• 15:14
  Nesser until he already owned it.
• 15:17
  And when he already owned it, it's the cell already the cell
• 15:22
  itself and the and the money that he owes you for it already
• 15:26
  happened before it became stamina or Maga Shala Vienessa
• 15:33
  Ainonas achiya guillobo. So therefore Yeenessa doesn't
• 15:37
  until he touches it. Nimitza so.
• 15:54
  Touching the bottle from the outside for sure is not going to
• 15:57
  make it us, Sir. The only time it could be us,
• 16:00
  Sir, is if you touch it. If you touch it and or if you're
• 16:05
  doing shiksha, you're you're shaking it.
• 16:09
  I'm not sure about just lifting it up.
• 16:13
  I believe I'm not, but we'll see.
• 16:16
  Is. He saying that until he touched
• 16:18
  the wine for sure. R4Z it's the bottle and it has
• 16:23
  an end of the wine. Let's see if it gets a little
• 16:30
  more clear. Ye Nessa anyone else?
• 16:32
  Actually ye gabo. So it's not going to become Ye
• 16:35
  Nessa until you touch it. Neemsa Bishad Mahira, When you
• 16:39
  saw the Teya mutter at the time of the Mahira itself, it was
• 16:42
  mutter. Now let's say the goy, it's
• 16:53
  going to be OK again. So if when the goy takes the
• 17:00
  bottle of wine or the barrel of wine, they didn't agree to an
• 17:04
  amount, so then asurin. So then that wine becomes Asur
• 17:10
  Hana, right? Achilo pasat damav asurin.
• 17:17
  So if you didn't agree to how much you're paying per bottle or
• 17:20
  how much you're paying per liter, whatever you're using,
• 17:24
  then the money, the wine and the money are both going to become
• 17:30
  Asur Behana Shahre Los Sanghadaito because you didn't
• 17:35
  have in mind how much and therefore it wasn't a complete
• 17:39
  sale of Alpha Pisha Mashaq. Even though he pulled it, he can
• 17:43
  always go back and he and he can always say no, I changed my
• 17:47
  mind. We never agreed on a price.
• 17:48
  So here take it back. So therefore there's no complete
• 17:52
  sale. The sale didn't happen just by
• 17:54
  doing Hagaba until you until you decided on a price.
• 17:59
  Umiya Harsha Balar shoots Hagai and I saw anees horrible.
• 18:04
  And once it enters the reshoot of the goy and he's lifting it
• 18:10
  up. Ainaiso nizerbo vyesh lahush
• 18:14
  shinagar. So the Rama clarifies that I
• 18:18
  think we're talking about you're afraid that you actually touched
• 18:21
  the the goy is touching the wine touching, touching the barrel's
• 18:25
  knock itself is not going to make it usser, but the fact that
• 18:29
  now it's in his possession, he might touch the wine.
• 18:33
  So again, part of this part of the isser is only on a level of
• 18:36
  darabana as a knas as as we mentioned.
• 18:41
  But either way, it becomes a Sir, a Sir for you to have the
• 18:45
  money and a Sir for you to have the one.
• 18:47
  So if you're really watching very, very carefully.
• 18:50
  So I don't, I think that doesn't matter because because this case
• 18:57
  is when you're doing the sale and you already give it to him
• 18:59
  to pick it up. That's the halafa Aina you saw a
• 19:03
  nisarbo vieshlakhushanaga venimza kishanaga and so
• 19:07
  therefore when the Nanju touches the touches the barrel or picks
• 19:13
  it up, adain Los sanghadaito lika Vanessa rayain beniguiato.
• 19:20
  So as soon as he so as soon as he touches the wine or picks up
• 19:25
  the barrel, it becomes ASA again.
• 19:29
  It's only going to be Ye nessa if you do shiksha, but there's
• 19:34
  still a level over here of asur mederabana, the hareze Comer
• 19:37
  Comer ke mukhir Stam yanam. And so the halakhah is given
• 19:42
  that it's like you're selling Stam yanam, that's asur Behenna.
• 19:50
  OK, now when are we talking about that?
• 20:02
  OK, we're going to this this portion is here.
• 20:05
  Let's read but this the next part portion is is only the Shah
• 20:09
  points out in your head. It's more of a l'hatkhila
• 20:13
  situation here. Let's keep reading Kisha Madahi,
• 20:17
  you saw L'khela when the lacry shalgoish aimbo a kevat Yain.
• 20:25
  When do we say you can You can do this?
• 20:28
  It's if it's you measure it out if you do and when it's still in
• 20:33
  the Jewish cup, the owner his, his cup, his barrel, and you
• 20:37
  decide how much it is or a completely empty cup of wine of
• 20:44
  a Nanju. I've got E madad lakli hagoy
• 20:48
  sheeshwa kevit yain O lakli. Israel should be well, the issue
• 20:57
  over here is before you, before you give it to the goy, you have
• 21:05
  to make sure that it's in a Jewish cup that doesn't have any
• 21:13
  any remnants of non kosher wine in there.
• 21:16
  And you decide how much it is before it gets to his
• 21:20
  possession, because let's keep reading.
• 21:31
  Al khor khaluma nated sarika khadamim via kharka yimdod.
• 21:37
  So it's important that you make the agreement of the wine before
• 21:43
  you measure it. If it's going to be in the goy's
• 21:48
  in the goy's hands. If I'm trying to think here, you
• 21:53
  have to make the the Kenyan, the smirkas das, the the agreement
• 21:59
  has to be before it's in the goy's in the goy's possession.
• 22:06
  And if you're doing it based on if you decide how much liters,
• 22:11
  then that's OK too. But if you're going to measure
• 22:14
  it first with the goy in the goy's cup and then you're going
• 22:18
  to decide on it. So then there's a problem if
• 22:21
  there's remnants of wine in the goy's cup, or if the goy is
• 22:24
  holding up the cup while you're measuring this.
• 22:27
  What's happening is your end in this scenario is you're
• 22:31
  measuring it in his cup before you.
• 22:35
  You have a full agreement. Leftover wine.
• 22:42
  Yeah, yeah. That holds the wine back.
• 22:46
  Remnants of wine. Right, yeah, OK.
• 22:51
  But again, the the shock points out it's as long as you make a
• 22:55
  full agreement and you know exactly how much you're selling
• 22:58
  it for per liter or whatever you're doing ahead of time, then
• 23:03
  it's OK. But yeah, but it's OK.
• 23:07
  OK, let's go on. Also did the of it, if it was
• 23:25
  just if there was a little bit mixed in, then all you have to
• 23:29
  do is just and you want to sell whatever's in there.
• 23:33
  You can sell the whole thing minus the value of the little
• 23:36
  bit that was there. It doesn't also the whole thing.
• 23:39
  It's just that portion that was originally Esser stays Esser and
• 23:43
  that's the amount you have to reduce from the sale.
• 23:53
  Piya Khalisha boy, the Nasser Yayin Miyad.
• 23:56
  And also that's when you pour it in, because as you pour into the
• 24:00
  cup, if there's, there's drops of wine in there, it might touch
• 24:04
  those drops on the way down as you pour it in before you,
• 24:09
  before you sold it and, and just be when your wine enters the cup
• 24:16
  of the goy, it's there's no Kenyan yet until the goy lifts
• 24:20
  it up. But if he's holding it as you
• 24:29
  poured it in or it's in his or as you're pouring it in and you
• 24:39
  even if it's in the Jews possession, you tell him I'm
• 24:43
  giving you this area of the land where the cop is sitting during
• 24:47
  the Kenyan. So then it's smutter than miya
• 24:50
  chabala averkli canal 'cause as you pour it into the klia
• 24:53
  immediately the non Jew owns it and therefore villonessa yayin
• 24:58
  achenaga bakabit yayin should be shuli akli and therefore it
• 25:02
  never becomes asar until it's until after the Kenyan is
• 25:10
  called. It touches the wine in the.
• 25:14
  Body. And such as the leftover wine in
• 25:16
  the body doesn't become. Posture at.
• 25:21
  The time of. The right it does, it becomes us
• 25:24
  or afterwards it becomes as, as it enters the walls, the
• 25:28
  airspace, it becomes the canyons hall.
• 25:31
  And therefore when it touches the wine and and it mixes, it's
• 25:34
  already a motor, the cane in its possession.
• 25:42
  If the goy measures it and he lifts it up in order to buy it,
• 25:47
  everything is mutter. Because if the agreement is
• 25:54
  whatever he's lifting up and whatever he's pointing to, he's
• 25:57
  going to keep. It's not like he's going to.
• 25:59
  He can't go back anymore as he's lifting it up.
• 26:02
  Then as he's pouring it in and measuring it, he is
• 26:06
  automatically being Conan. If that's the agreement then
• 26:08
  there's no problem. But if he didn't lift it up and
• 26:17
  he's just measuring it, so then it's like any case of yayin that
• 26:22
  comes from the Koch of the Goye, as we learnt in Kovkov.
• 26:25
  Hey, the Kozel, Omari Elobian mayhem and the Roma points out
• 26:28
  again, all these issues don't apply nowadays.
• 26:31
  Shahagui Shahi, you are going in the Nastrim, the Austrian Berna
• 26:34
  Berna Gahan, that used to be the Madrassa Bahanah, that's
• 26:38
  Monazesh, you are going in the Austrian Mahanah.
• 26:42
  So nowadays it's always mutter and all these we don't worry
• 26:54
  about nowadays.