Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 24-y-o "TEDDY BEAR" Knox Panter Gunned down Taking Care of Grandmother

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24-y-o "TEDDY BEAR" Knox Panter Gunned down Taking Care of Grandmother · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, there's no other way
0:10
Speaker 1: to put it. I've seen a lot of dead bodies,
0:12
Speaker 1: been to a lot of crime scenes, homicide scenes, Morgan
0:17
Speaker 1: visits during autopsies. And one thing I have wondered over
0:23
Speaker 1: and over and there's no good answer. Why is it
0:28
Speaker 1: so often that the good people are the ones that
0:35
Speaker 1: are killed, that are taken advantage of, that die young
0:38
Speaker 1: in life, that are mistreated. Why is that? I don't
0:43
Speaker 1: know the answer to that, but I do know this.
0:48
Speaker 1: Whoever killed Knocks Panther, They're going down. So help me
0:55
Speaker 1: God in heaven. I mean, I see Grace. This is
0:59
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
1:01
Speaker 1: Fox Nation in Serious X one eleven. Listen to this.
1:06
Speaker 1: This is Jamie Kennedy's CBS forty six. He took incredible
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Speaker 1: care of his grandparents. Never complain. I always put others first.
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Speaker 1: Family and those close to the Painters described Knox Painter
1:20
Speaker 1: as a man with a huge, hot and caring nature.
1:22
Speaker 1: He had been through cancer when he was four, had
1:26
Speaker 1: lost an eye, He lost his mom to cancer when
1:29
Speaker 1: he was a teenager, and he was always there trying
1:34
Speaker 1: to help take care of his sisters and his brother.
1:37
Speaker 1: You know that is a rare person that will step
1:41
Speaker 1: up and take care of an aging relative. It's not easy,
1:47
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of There's not a lot of
1:48
Speaker 1: Hallmark moments in that. Although actually I take that back,
1:53
Speaker 1: because there's plenty. I've got my mother with me, just
1:56
Speaker 1: turned ninety years old, and I thank God every day
2:00
Speaker 1: I'm the one that gets to take care of her.
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Speaker 1: I don't want her living somewhere else. I want her
2:05
Speaker 1: with me, and I want to help her just the
2:07
Speaker 1: way she helped me growing up. And that is who
2:10
Speaker 1: knocks panther was started to say, is at just twenty
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Speaker 1: four years old. To top it all off, he survived
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Speaker 1: childhood cancer only to be gunned down. Why again, this
2:27
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with
2:30
Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what
2:32
Speaker 1: we know right now. Kirby Clemens, high profile lawyer and
2:37
Speaker 1: author of How to Keep Your Ass Except as Money
2:41
Speaker 1: Signs out of Jail. Okay, thanks Kirby for that. Karen Start,
2:45
Speaker 1: renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You can find
2:50
Speaker 1: her at Karen Stark dot com. That's Karenen with a CE.
2:53
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research
2:56
Speaker 1: Institute and you can find her at Coldcase cribs dot org.
3:00
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and colleague, forensic pathologist, author
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Speaker 1: of homicide Investigation Field Guide, Taisha Fernandez with us TV
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Speaker 1: news reporter at WSBTV Atlanta and special guests joining us
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Speaker 1: Donald Prison. Longtime friend of Knox Painter. Who is Knox Painter?
3:28
Speaker 1: Why was his life cut short? Take a listen to
3:32
Speaker 1: our cut number three our friends at Fox five. The
3:36
Speaker 1: victim's family came forward as you mentioned and identified him
3:39
Speaker 1: as twenty four year old Knox Panter. Now East Point
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Speaker 1: Police say he was shot when he went out to
3:44
Speaker 1: his truck in the middle of the night and notice
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Speaker 1: some guys breaking into it. Shouts were fired and those
3:49
Speaker 1: guys drove off in a dark four door sedan. This
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Speaker 1: was on East Woodland Circle just after one on Friday morning.
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Speaker 1: Medics rush Panter to Atlanta Medical South, where doctors were
3:59
Speaker 1: able to save him. The family is just so heartbroken
4:02
Speaker 1: that they didn't want to go on camera understandably. Right now,
4:05
Speaker 1: they describe him as a sweet, caring and hard working person.
4:08
Speaker 1: I spoke with a close friend who knew him since
4:10
Speaker 1: he was a little boy. It's fair first, but then
4:16
Speaker 1: then tremendous anger. If any of your vehicles had been
4:19
Speaker 1: tampered with, or if you've got videos of people acting oddly,
4:25
Speaker 1: or any question at all, police turn it over to
4:27
Speaker 1: these point police and with me the persons whose voice
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Speaker 1: you are hearing, Donald Prison, longtime friend of this young man,
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Speaker 1: just a big teddy bear, Knox Panter, Donald Prison, from
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Speaker 1: what I am hearing, and I've asked a lot of people,
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Speaker 1: and believe me, Panter is right up there with some
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Speaker 1: of the kindest people I've ever heard about. Donald Prison.
4:55
Speaker 1: I don't care who the victim is, what they are,
4:59
Speaker 1: if they're none or a hooker, because Lady Justice is wind.
5:04
Speaker 1: She doesn't care. Got in your Vanguard account. It doesn't
5:10
Speaker 1: matter under the law. But it's especially painful when such
5:15
Speaker 1: a fine person, a fine young man there taking care
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Speaker 1: of his grandmother for Pete's sake, is gunned down over
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Speaker 1: what stealing something out of his vehicle. Donald, what's your
5:27
Speaker 1: understanding of what happened? Well, I guess Knox heard her disturbance.
5:34
Speaker 1: He went outside and confronted. I believe it was two individuals,
5:39
Speaker 1: and they shot, and there was gunfire and Knox. Knox
5:46
Speaker 1: was shot in the chest and pretty much died there
5:50
Speaker 1: outside the house. When did you learn that Knox was killed? Well,
5:55
Speaker 1: it happened at one o'clock Friday morning, and I found
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Speaker 1: out first thing Friday morning, when the sun came up.
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Speaker 1: His uncle called me, how did you know Knox? Well,
6:07
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to be grafted into the Panter
6:10
Speaker 1: family when I was fourteen and been blessed to be
6:15
Speaker 1: a part of all the ups and downs since then.
6:20
Speaker 1: I'm fifty six, so a long time, very fortunate. You know,
6:24
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, You and I had a lot of cases
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Speaker 1: together in the trenches. I don't mean in front of
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Speaker 1: a TV camera. I mean working the cases, trying to
6:34
Speaker 1: find perbs, bringing them to justice, trying to help crime victims.
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Speaker 1: And this reminds me so much of my very first
6:41
Speaker 1: carjack murder case. The victim was a young man. I
6:45
Speaker 1: can't remember if you were in and around the courtroom
6:48
Speaker 1: when I tried this case, but he had gone outside
6:53
Speaker 1: and somebody was trying to steal his car and he
6:57
Speaker 1: was unarmed. I think it was in the middle of
6:59
Speaker 1: the NYE think he ran out in his gym shorts
7:01
Speaker 1: and his t shirt and they shot him dead in
7:04
Speaker 1: the driveway. And that case sticks in my mind because
7:10
Speaker 1: of one very poignant moment in it. The neighbor heard
7:14
Speaker 1: the gunfire and ran outside, saw the teen lying there
7:19
Speaker 1: bleeding out, and ran in and got a pillow and
7:24
Speaker 1: put under his head as he was dying or was
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Speaker 1: already dead. And that act of kindness and love toward
7:37
Speaker 1: this teen boy dying in his own driveway over what
7:41
Speaker 1: a car and it knocks Panter's case reminds me of that,
7:47
Speaker 1: the senseless killing over what. What is your understanding, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: of what happened? Well, you've got a young man that
7:56
Speaker 1: loved the grandmama and his grandfather has just recently died,
8:01
Speaker 1: so he didn't want her to be alone. He wanted
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Speaker 1: to be there to help her out with household things
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Speaker 1: as well as protector. So when he hears whatever's going
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Speaker 1: on outside, he goes out to see what's going on.
8:12
Speaker 1: And they were breaking into his work truck. And he
8:15
Speaker 1: had started his own business as a tree tremmor so
8:19
Speaker 1: he had all kinds of saws and carabineers and robes.
8:23
Speaker 1: That's how he makes a living. So when he hollered
8:26
Speaker 1: out at him or whatever he did to get their attention.
8:29
Speaker 1: They shot him. They shot him over items that were his.
8:34
Speaker 1: And these folks, it's important for people to remember, Nancy
8:37
Speaker 1: that a lot of these entering autos, they're just kind
8:40
Speaker 1: of like, oh, well, they just broke into a car,
8:42
Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. These young men have graduated
8:45
Speaker 1: from being a petty thief to a murderer and over
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Speaker 1: over for whatever knocks had in his vehicle over nothing.
9:07
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. We want these two purps.
9:13
Speaker 1: I want them behind bars. I want them behind bars
9:17
Speaker 1: so badly this I want to call him a kid,
9:21
Speaker 1: but he's twenty four, his whole life in front of him,
9:24
Speaker 1: and he was there at that location out of pure
9:27
Speaker 1: love for his grandmother. Now, how many people do you
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Speaker 1: know that want to take care of their grandmother? Because
9:34
Speaker 1: I don't know very many. As a matter of fact,
9:37
Speaker 1: I know a lot of sons and daughters. They don't
9:40
Speaker 1: want to take care of their mother, much less their grandmother.
9:44
Speaker 1: Think about it, everybody in this studio, three ladies are
9:48
Speaker 1: sitting with me, and everyone is shaking their head. Yes
9:52
Speaker 1: that they know people that they don't have time to
9:56
Speaker 1: take care of mom and dad. But visit much less
9:59
Speaker 1: take care of him much less their grandmother. You know,
10:03
Speaker 1: it makes me think, and I'm sure you've heard me
10:05
Speaker 1: talk about her before care and Start. My grandmother, Lucy,
10:09
Speaker 1: my mother's mother that lived down the street from us
10:12
Speaker 1: growing up. I named Lucy after her because I love
10:16
Speaker 1: her so much, and I can tell you a quick
10:21
Speaker 1: story care and Start. So, when my fiancee that was murdered, Keith,
10:27
Speaker 1: moved to Athens to finish up his geology degree, I
10:32
Speaker 1: transferred to Mercy University so I can be closer to him.
10:36
Speaker 1: And so we'd burn up the phones on long distance
10:39
Speaker 1: phone calls. And my father, oh, he did not want
10:43
Speaker 1: to see that phone bill, so I would sneak the
10:45
Speaker 1: phone bill when it came to I'd look every day
10:48
Speaker 1: to get the Southern Bill phone bill and try to
10:53
Speaker 1: pay it before he got it. At one time, I
10:55
Speaker 1: think it was like fifty dollars, and I'm like, oh,
10:57
Speaker 1: dear Lord, and I have a brier. I can to
10:59
Speaker 1: get fifty at morty. I don't want to hear these
11:02
Speaker 1: terrible stories about you at way. So I didn't know
11:07
Speaker 1: anybody to ask for fifty dollars. So I went to
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Speaker 1: my grandmother Mama Lucy. And you know what, I didn't
11:14
Speaker 1: know any better. She didn't have anything. She had nothing.
11:18
Speaker 1: She worked her whole life in a factory and on
11:22
Speaker 1: a farm. And do you know, she said, bring me
11:25
Speaker 1: in my pocket book, and she unrolls some money, a moneyball,
11:30
Speaker 1: and she counted out fifty dollars cash, which you know
11:35
Speaker 1: she could not afford to give me, and she gave
11:38
Speaker 1: me and I went, oh, thank you, and a hug
11:40
Speaker 1: drink Kister and rand not understanding that that was a
11:43
Speaker 1: big sacrifice to her. And I went to the phone
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Speaker 1: company and paid the bill with cash. I mean, that's
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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about a grandmother. And here is Knox
11:54
Speaker 1: Panther trying to take care of his grandmother. But with
12:00
Speaker 1: me another special guest, you know her, you see her,
12:06
Speaker 1: Taysha Fernandez with WSB. Tasha. Who are these guys that
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Speaker 1: gone down this young man over nothing? These thieves are
12:17
Speaker 1: willing to do whatever they have to do to get
12:19
Speaker 1: what you have, And unfortunately, during the holiday season they
12:23
Speaker 1: get more brazen. And when we heard what happened in
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Speaker 1: East Point, we knew that they were breaking in Wait wait, wait, wait,
12:30
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute. The holiday season tay Asha.
12:35
Speaker 1: I like a lot of places we still say Christmas
12:38
Speaker 1: it is Chris. Okay, Chris, I got to be a
12:40
Speaker 1: little bit more politically correct than you. But yeah, not here.
12:44
Speaker 1: Christ was borne my Holy Father him. Yes, okay, go ahead,
12:49
Speaker 1: this is birthday. I got you. So people steal from
12:53
Speaker 1: other people to give Christmas to their families, as crazy
12:58
Speaker 1: as it sound about you, but yeah, or to buy dope,
13:02
Speaker 1: get a five rock, a crack and they're all fine. Yes, Well,
13:05
Speaker 1: they have been terrorizing that particular East Point neighborhood for weeks.
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Speaker 1: You know, that wasn't the first time Knox's truck was
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Speaker 1: broken into. I believe it was the second or third time,
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Speaker 1: and I believe he was fed up along with many
13:18
Speaker 1: other people. It's so relatable. You see somebody breaking into
13:21
Speaker 1: your property, your first instinct is going to be to
13:24
Speaker 1: grab your gun and protect your stuff. And to know
13:28
Speaker 1: that these people, these seeds that don't even want to
13:31
Speaker 1: call them people, that they killed Knox over breaking into
13:35
Speaker 1: his own property. I mean to hear his family and
13:38
Speaker 1: friends talk about how wonderful he was. You know, it
13:41
Speaker 1: made us tear up in the newsroom. And the sad
13:43
Speaker 1: thing is this isn't going to stop, and without more
13:46
Speaker 1: of a police presence, it's going to keep happening to
13:50
Speaker 1: more good people. And I like what you said earlier, Nancy.
13:53
Speaker 1: Why does it always happen to the good people? I mean,
13:55
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for God to tell me that when it's
13:57
Speaker 1: my time to go, why the good people blaze to
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Speaker 1: show us more of an example of how horrible we are.
14:05
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at Knox Panther right now. He's
14:08
Speaker 1: just a big teddy bear. I'm looking at one that
14:13
Speaker 1: says it was just posted about eighteen hours ago, Kelly.
14:16
Speaker 1: It says cancer survivor killed while intervening and burglary of
14:23
Speaker 1: his truck. And I don't know if you have this picture,
14:27
Speaker 1: but I love this picture of him. I'm just gonna
14:30
Speaker 1: show it real quick. That big smile he's got, He
14:34
Speaker 1: just looks like I just want to hug him with
14:36
Speaker 1: that smile looking at the camera. He's like a big
14:41
Speaker 1: teddy bear to me. And he died. He bled out
14:46
Speaker 1: over what was says joining me. I mentioned earlier as
14:49
Speaker 1: a high profile lawyer. You know him well, Kirby Clements
14:52
Speaker 1: and Kirby is a defense attorney and author. But Kirby
14:57
Speaker 1: and I go a long way back. Kirby was mister
15:01
Speaker 1: cool at the Fulton County District Attorney's office. When I
15:04
Speaker 1: was a prosecutor. I was always running up and down
15:06
Speaker 1: the halls like a whirling dervish, all strung out about
15:10
Speaker 1: my next trial and this bad guy and that bad guy.
15:12
Speaker 1: And Kirby was always so even killed. You know, Kirby,
15:16
Speaker 1: do you remember the still there the parking lot right
15:22
Speaker 1: there on the corner of Prior and MLK. Yeah, parking lot, yeah,
15:29
Speaker 1: for underground at Lant. But you know, I consider at
15:32
Speaker 1: the courthouse parking lot. Well, I couldn't afford the courthouse
15:35
Speaker 1: parking a lot. It's like fifteen dollars a day. I'm like,
15:37
Speaker 1: uh no. And I would actually go way, way, way,
15:41
Speaker 1: way down toward the jail Detention center and park down
15:46
Speaker 1: there and walk in high heels and the rain, the whatever,
15:50
Speaker 1: dragging you know how I dragged that trial cart behind
15:53
Speaker 1: me on wheels, right, yeah, all the way and up
15:57
Speaker 1: the steps into the courthouse and final, finally, I finally,
16:02
Speaker 1: after X number of years in the DA's office, got
16:04
Speaker 1: a spot in that parking deck. Do you know, Kirby,
16:09
Speaker 1: how many times my car was broken into, I think
16:13
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve times, and for what do you remember,
16:17
Speaker 1: Jeanette barfielder office administrator. You know how mash you getting me?
16:20
Speaker 1: Because I'd keep the one polaroid. Then we had two
16:22
Speaker 1: polaroid cameras for the whole office, and I'd have it
16:25
Speaker 1: in on my back seat to go out and take
16:28
Speaker 1: pictures for juries, and it would keep getting stolen. Finally,
16:33
Speaker 1: you know, I just started leaving my window down and
16:37
Speaker 1: leaving nothing in the car at all, or the window
16:41
Speaker 1: up and unlocked because my car was broken into so
16:45
Speaker 1: many times. I knew the number by heart for doctor
16:48
Speaker 1: Glass and the locksmith, mostly doctor Glass to help me,
16:54
Speaker 1: you know, get my car fixed. How does it How
16:57
Speaker 1: does it escalate Kirby from breaking into somebody's truck to
17:02
Speaker 1: leaving him dead on the ground bleeding out? You know, Nancy,
17:05
Speaker 1: I will tell you a couple of things. One, I
17:07
Speaker 1: used to park in another parking let down there, and uh,
17:10
Speaker 1: I kept much did it cost Kirby? It was cheap
17:14
Speaker 1: it I think I paid thirty dollars a month or something.
17:17
Speaker 1: Was some ridiculous amount covered parking covered? Yeah, it was.
17:21
Speaker 1: It was way down and it was near the federal courthouse.
17:23
Speaker 1: It was a no, no, no. Uh. I didn't have
17:27
Speaker 1: time because you know, I fly in at the last minute.
17:30
Speaker 1: With all that stuff, I could not walk all the
17:33
Speaker 1: way from the Federal Courthouse to the to fold the
17:36
Speaker 1: County Superior No, uh, go ahead, no no, but I
17:39
Speaker 1: can't pay junk carss. I think you know, they just
17:41
Speaker 1: say it's too much garbage in there. But as to
17:43
Speaker 1: how this thing moves along, I'll tell you. Um, I
17:47
Speaker 1: kind of came to this conclusion from my prosecutor days
17:49
Speaker 1: and my defense my defense lawyer days. You have people
17:52
Speaker 1: A man with no hope is a dangerous man, and
17:54
Speaker 1: I think you have a lot of people out there
17:55
Speaker 1: who may not. It's not about getting nessarily getting drugs.
17:58
Speaker 1: It's just people don't even understand. They don't appreciate the
18:01
Speaker 1: value of their life or the value of anyone else's life.
18:04
Speaker 1: And if you don't, you don't love yourself, You're not
18:05
Speaker 1: gonna love anybody and see the value in yourself. You're
18:07
Speaker 1: not going to see their value in anyone else. Why wait,
18:10
Speaker 1: let me understand, you have your j D and that's
18:12
Speaker 1: yours doctrine. Correct, you do have that right now, I
18:15
Speaker 1: don't call you having a degree in psychiatry or psychology,
18:21
Speaker 1: What are you saying you don't love yourself, you can't
18:23
Speaker 1: love anybody else. What does that have to do with
18:26
Speaker 1: Knox pan or getting gunned down outside his grandma's house.
18:29
Speaker 1: Oh no, well several things. One do it because you
18:33
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I talk to these young men. My
18:34
Speaker 1: son has been shot at just walking down the street
18:37
Speaker 1: by people who just pulled up the shoot and I
18:40
Speaker 1: can try to get an understanding. So you talk to people.
18:42
Speaker 1: You talk to your clients. You talk to people, and
18:44
Speaker 1: you realize they just feel like you got something I want.
18:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the thing I want and it
18:50
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what I have to do to get it.
18:51
Speaker 1: And you think to yourself, waiting, you are listening to
18:54
Speaker 1: your class. You think they're telling you the truth, whether
19:02
Speaker 1: they did it or not. But when they did, when
19:04
Speaker 1: they do it, I'm telling you, Nanty, it's you gotta look.
19:07
Speaker 1: You gotta talk to these people. Say all the eyes
19:11
Speaker 1: that are rolling in here, everybody's eyes are rolling, and
19:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't curb me place. Don't start believing your clients.
19:17
Speaker 1: You're gonna be out of business pretty quickly. But remember,
19:21
Speaker 1: even if you're gonna start believing them. Get the money upfront.
19:25
Speaker 1: Get the money upfront. Don't listen when they say they're
19:28
Speaker 1: gonna pay you after the trial. Don't know. You gotta
19:32
Speaker 1: you have to talk to them in their families, and
19:34
Speaker 1: you love and you sit there and I stand there.
19:37
Speaker 1: You look at him tell you with a strange face
19:40
Speaker 1: about a crime that they committed, and you were asking, well,
19:43
Speaker 1: what were you thinking? And when they when they finished
19:46
Speaker 1: saying the words, you just have to go, Wow, that
19:48
Speaker 1: was just the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.
19:50
Speaker 1: But then when you start hearing a whole lot, you realize,
19:52
Speaker 1: you know what. First of all, I'm not gonna call it, well,
19:55
Speaker 1: it's just the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life.
19:56
Speaker 1: But it's a consistent dumb thing that I hear all
19:59
Speaker 1: the time. So these people haven't Donald Pridgeon, do you
20:02
Speaker 1: see what we have to put up with? You got
20:05
Speaker 1: Knocks panther who's never done anything wrong, who goes out
20:10
Speaker 1: to check on his truck, and these people gunn him down.
20:14
Speaker 1: I don't care what they've been through in their life.
20:32
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Don't explain to me how
20:36
Speaker 1: Knocks ended up the one taking care of his grandmother. Well,
20:41
Speaker 1: I mean they were they were up in age and
20:45
Speaker 1: they needed someone to do just basic stuff around the house,
20:48
Speaker 1: yard work and help with some of the heavy lifting.
20:52
Speaker 1: Um so that that's how he ended up over there?
20:56
Speaker 1: Was he living there? Was he staying there? Yes, ma'am.
20:59
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at some pictures Taisha Fernandez joining
21:02
Speaker 1: me from WSBTV, and you probably had them before People
21:07
Speaker 1: Magazine had them. But I'm looking at them in People
21:10
Speaker 1: Magazine of two guys. They're both dressed in black. Yes,
21:15
Speaker 1: hard to see their faces in one of them. I
21:18
Speaker 1: can see that it's blurry, but I can see it
21:22
Speaker 1: pretty well. They're wearing hoodies, black hoodies with some kind
21:26
Speaker 1: of logo on them, and it looks like they have
21:31
Speaker 1: the same white logo on the left side of their
21:37
Speaker 1: jacket or hoodies. And there's also some type something light
21:44
Speaker 1: colored emblazoned on the shoulders as they are running. Somebody
21:47
Speaker 1: knows these guys and hopefully they turn them into the
21:50
Speaker 1: crime stoppers money sometime soon. And I have a feeling
21:54
Speaker 1: they're blabbing their mouth about what happened as well. They're
21:57
Speaker 1: not keeping it to themselves. What is that phenomen Karen start,
22:00
Speaker 1: Karen start joining me. You're now a psychologist joining us
22:04
Speaker 1: out of Manhattan, Karen start. Why can't people keep their
22:08
Speaker 1: yapp shut? I mean, it's just human instinct, Nancy. Especially
22:12
Speaker 1: if you're somebody who's excited about doing this, as much
22:15
Speaker 1: as that seems crazy, you're going to want to brad
22:19
Speaker 1: to other people and let them know because for you
22:22
Speaker 1: it's an accomplishment. But I want to say something about
22:26
Speaker 1: human nature. It isn't true that everybody is basically good.
22:30
Speaker 1: There are people that are not good, that are bad.
22:33
Speaker 1: And I'm not even sure that these guys, I bet
22:37
Speaker 1: did not. It didn't matter what was in the car
22:40
Speaker 1: nearly as much as they started off with a gun,
22:43
Speaker 1: and so they were prepared to use that to shoot somebody.
22:48
Speaker 1: And I really do believe that that's part of the
22:50
Speaker 1: excitement for them, that they were ready to use it
22:54
Speaker 1: and looking to do that and able to laugh about
22:58
Speaker 1: it afterwards. And I'm fortunately deal with people like that
23:02
Speaker 1: in the world, and seeing themselves all over the news
23:06
Speaker 1: on every single station here in Atlanta, I'm sure it
23:10
Speaker 1: is uling them up for the next ride. Absolutely, Nancy.
23:14
Speaker 1: I gotta jump in here and I can I stop you, No,
23:18
Speaker 1: not at all what you're seeing. There's no city, whether
23:23
Speaker 1: it's Chicago, Miami, Kansas City, Behaven, entering autos are just rampant.
23:30
Speaker 1: You have got organized street gangs that are targeting these
23:35
Speaker 1: vehicles for guns. You can ask a thousand people that
23:39
Speaker 1: have had their car broken into and they'll tell you
23:42
Speaker 1: the glove compartment was open in the center console. They're
23:45
Speaker 1: looking for guns first, then they'll move to tools and
23:48
Speaker 1: electronics and things of that nature that they can easily
23:51
Speaker 1: pawn for you quick cash. But those guns are paramount
23:56
Speaker 1: to them. It gives them not only a level that
24:00
Speaker 1: they can move to their next crime, for an armed
24:03
Speaker 1: robbery or even a bank robbery, but also the amount
24:07
Speaker 1: they can get on the street. For example, in Atlanta,
24:11
Speaker 1: a hot gun is going to bring you about two
24:13
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, whereas in New York it's going to bring
24:16
Speaker 1: you twelve hundred. So if you've got a street game
24:19
Speaker 1: that can send out fifteen to sixteen year old seventeen
24:21
Speaker 1: year old people and hit forty cars a night, if
24:25
Speaker 1: they can all bring those guns back to one fence
24:28
Speaker 1: and that person goes to New York, you're talking about
24:31
Speaker 1: tons of money. Using very young people to do it.
24:36
Speaker 1: This was strategic, this was organized, and they will be context,
24:40
Speaker 1: you know, connected to multiple crimes in the metro Atlanta area.
24:44
Speaker 1: And you know, Kirby Clemens, as you know, I remember
24:49
Speaker 1: the first time I understood what dapers were doing. You know,
24:54
Speaker 1: our boss, mister Slayton, the longest serving district elected district
24:59
Speaker 1: attorney in the unit the States at that time, I
25:02
Speaker 1: think it was thirty seven years Fine, fine, fine, boss Kirby,
25:09
Speaker 1: you know who'd send us to send us to indictments,
25:13
Speaker 1: so I would learn to draw up in dinens, send
25:15
Speaker 1: us to grand jury, would have to present to the
25:17
Speaker 1: grand jury. Then would do a stint in juvenile where
25:20
Speaker 1: they're not really there's no jury trials, there's really no
25:23
Speaker 1: rules of evidence, but you do practice putting up evidence
25:27
Speaker 1: to a judge more like a social worker. But Kirby,
25:30
Speaker 1: I remember so many juveniles coming in holding you know,
25:36
Speaker 1: five rocks, rocks of crack, and what I realized roper
25:43
Speaker 1: would be nearby directing the juveniles what to do, and
25:47
Speaker 1: the juven I would pass the doper the money and
25:50
Speaker 1: the doper would never really touch the dope because juvenile
25:55
Speaker 1: might do two months at jube jail where an adult
25:58
Speaker 1: could do fifty life depending on how many times he
26:02
Speaker 1: had been busted. So what Cheryl is saying does ring
26:05
Speaker 1: true that these people could be part of street gangs
26:10
Speaker 1: that are trying to get stolen items like guns, working
26:14
Speaker 1: for somebody over them or not. What do you make
26:17
Speaker 1: of that? No, I think it's actually a very solid
26:19
Speaker 1: theory because they do for guns in people's cars. People
26:23
Speaker 1: shouldn't leave their guns in their cars. They do look
26:26
Speaker 1: for cell phones and electronics in vehicles. So there's a
26:29
Speaker 1: lot there, and you're correct, there is usually I'm going
26:32
Speaker 1: to use a multilevel marketing term, there is an up
26:35
Speaker 1: line where you've got some older, more seasoned guys who
26:39
Speaker 1: are utilizing these younger guys who really just go out
26:43
Speaker 1: and just go crazy, I mean, doing stupid things like
26:47
Speaker 1: you didn't have to shoot anybody at this stage of
26:50
Speaker 1: the game. You don't have to shoot anybody. You could
26:53
Speaker 1: have gotten their cases where people are giving up the
26:55
Speaker 1: money and still get shot. But these guys are trying
26:57
Speaker 1: to make their bones or whatever phrase you know is
27:00
Speaker 1: the current term of art on the streets. It's money
27:03
Speaker 1: making your name, and they're doing it, and they're doing
27:06
Speaker 1: it with people who are just who have me young
27:08
Speaker 1: people by themselves good kids still, you know, if I've
27:12
Speaker 1: had teenagers, you know my kids are grown now. But
27:14
Speaker 1: when in the teen years you're like, dear lord, you
27:17
Speaker 1: know what is wrong with you? But imagine that with
27:20
Speaker 1: no supervision and some or the supervision they're getting is
27:24
Speaker 1: like Fagan and Oliver Twist, some evil mind, mastermind who's
27:27
Speaker 1: just utilizing them and they're willing to do it, and
27:30
Speaker 1: they are willing to kill, steal and destroy for the
27:35
Speaker 1: few hundred bucks for the gun. You know, change as
27:38
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Doctor Michel J. Prey, I'm listening
27:41
Speaker 1: to Kirby Clements, former prosecutor with me now defense attorney,
27:45
Speaker 1: Doctor du Pree, thank you so much for being with us.
27:48
Speaker 1: Number one forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, author of Homicide
27:53
Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide. I could ask you about his injuries,
27:58
Speaker 1: how long it took him to lean out? Was he
28:02
Speaker 1: aware of what was happening to him, which I hate
28:05
Speaker 1: to think that he was lying there on the ground
28:08
Speaker 1: near his truck dying. But what I want to ask you,
28:11
Speaker 1: in all your experience homicide investigation of Field Guide, how
28:18
Speaker 1: can we catch these pups well? Nancy. Unfortunately, if there's
28:24
Speaker 1: no no, don't start with unfortunately, give me something to
28:28
Speaker 1: go on. Well, you're gonna have to have somebody to talk.
28:31
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, that's it. If there's not cameras there
28:33
Speaker 1: from neighbors other doors. Hold on, Tisha for Nandez joining
28:38
Speaker 1: us from WSBTV. Where did these shots come come from? Oh?
28:41
Speaker 1: Those are from Knox's neighbors. Everybody in that neighborhood has
28:45
Speaker 1: a ring camera or something more even better on their houses.
28:50
Speaker 1: There are ex police officers in that neighborhood that have
28:53
Speaker 1: good cameras on the side of their houses. And I
28:56
Speaker 1: just want to add this again, Nancy, they came back
28:59
Speaker 1: to that neighborhood for a reason. They hit those same people,
29:03
Speaker 1: according to the neighbors hit that same neighborhood. Up. I
29:06
Speaker 1: have a co worker who lived right across the street
29:08
Speaker 1: from Knox's grandmother, and she said, those same guys we're
29:12
Speaker 1: see on camera coming back to that neighborhood crime stories
29:29
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What's so likely to doctor Michelle Dupree
29:35
Speaker 1: that the different people all picked the same street to
29:39
Speaker 1: vandalize it's them. If I could get one print off
29:43
Speaker 1: of one vehicle, that they bust it into I've got
29:47
Speaker 1: something and what about this? What about this? Go with me,
29:50
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. Remember the missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos,
29:57
Speaker 1: Remember how you and I talked about how now the
30:00
Speaker 1: cops put together following her husband, Fotus Dulos POC technical
30:07
Speaker 1: legal term, all through the neighborhood, all through the town,
30:12
Speaker 1: disposing of bloody clothes at different trash jumps, and they
30:16
Speaker 1: would getting him on a ring camera, they'd get him
30:18
Speaker 1: on a traffic light cam. That this really impressed me.
30:22
Speaker 1: A public bus opened up the door and you could
30:26
Speaker 1: see him on the cam inside the bus drive by,
30:29
Speaker 1: and they put together his movements, ending up at a
30:33
Speaker 1: car wash where he had the vehicle where I think
30:35
Speaker 1: he transported her dead body, completely cleaned and detailed. If
30:42
Speaker 1: I've already got these pictures, why can't we do that
30:45
Speaker 1: with all the people that live in that neighborhood and
30:47
Speaker 1: maybe even get a license number. Trust me, they're not
30:50
Speaker 1: on foot. Somebody needs to recognize them and stand up
30:53
Speaker 1: and step up, Nancy. And a lot of times people
30:55
Speaker 1: just won't talk. We need more of a reward offer,
31:00
Speaker 1: and I bet you they'll start talking. Is there a
31:01
Speaker 1: reward right now, there's a standard crime stoppers reward twenty
31:05
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars for any information. But if the community,
31:09
Speaker 1: you know, makes more of some noise, especially because at
31:13
Speaker 1: the poorly patrolled neighborhood police wise, I bet you offer
31:16
Speaker 1: more money, his friends will give him up. The shooter
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, you know, Donald Prison, hold On, hold on?
31:25
Speaker 1: Does anybody know the caliber? What kind of weapon was
31:28
Speaker 1: he used? Cheryl? Do you know that yet? I do not, Well,
31:32
Speaker 1: we'll find out soon enough. To Donald Prison. Donald, you
31:37
Speaker 1: said words about him about Knox Panter, and they really
31:43
Speaker 1: struck me about how kind and gentle he was, all
31:49
Speaker 1: that he had surmounted, all that he had been through
31:53
Speaker 1: to become the young man that he was there taking
31:57
Speaker 1: care of his grandmother. Tell me about him, Well, he
32:01
Speaker 1: was just coming into his own. He had always been
32:04
Speaker 1: happy being in the background, being supportive, never had to
32:07
Speaker 1: be in the spotlight. But he had just started this
32:12
Speaker 1: tree business. His sister just got his business cards, and
32:16
Speaker 1: his business side just came to the house yesterday. He
32:21
Speaker 1: had a great drive sense of humor and what was
32:23
Speaker 1: kind of funny on the business cards. I looked at
32:25
Speaker 1: him and it was his name of his company was
32:28
Speaker 1: Panther's Panther Tree Service, and I asked him why and
32:33
Speaker 1: I was told, well, everyone mispronounces his name anyway, and
32:37
Speaker 1: he thought it was kind of funny. And that's just
32:39
Speaker 1: who he was. He was going to accommodate everybody else
32:42
Speaker 1: not being able to say Panther and give a little
32:46
Speaker 1: chuckle to himself about it every time they did it.
32:49
Speaker 1: I read a quote from you last night. Actually it
32:53
Speaker 1: may be from your sister or your wife, Kelly, my wife. Yeah,
32:57
Speaker 1: and she said, sweet, quiet, gentle, hardworking, decent person, beloved
33:09
Speaker 1: by all who knew him. That just really struck me.
33:13
Speaker 1: A sweet, quiet, gentle, hardworking, decent person, beloved by all
33:23
Speaker 1: who knew him. I don't think I've ever heard anything
33:27
Speaker 1: so beautiful. Well, and she said last night, And it's right.
33:30
Speaker 1: Knox has always been easy. NICs was easy when he
33:34
Speaker 1: was a baby, as a teenager, and as an adult.
33:38
Speaker 1: Knox was never the one to cause drama. He was
33:40
Speaker 1: always caught up in it, the things that he couldn't control.
33:45
Speaker 1: You may like his cancer, absolutely, and but he always
33:50
Speaker 1: he never made things difficult for anyone. He was there
33:53
Speaker 1: to be supportive. I want you to take a listen
33:56
Speaker 1: to our cut number five. This is Joe Hinky at
33:59
Speaker 1: eleven A line quiet. He was so humble, he was
34:03
Speaker 1: so supportive, and it was rare. I mean, you just
34:07
Speaker 1: don't see that. Donald Pridgeon is a lifelong friend of
34:10
Speaker 1: a twenty four year old Knox Panter and his family.
34:13
Speaker 1: He says Panter lived in East Point, where he was
34:15
Speaker 1: taking care of his grandparents. At the age of four,
34:18
Speaker 1: he lost an eye during a battle with cancer, and
34:20
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve he lost his mother to cancer. And
34:23
Speaker 1: he persevered through all that with tremendous grace and love
34:28
Speaker 1: for those around. And Friday morning, around one am, Panther
34:31
Speaker 1: was shot and killed outside his family's home, according to
34:33
Speaker 1: East Point Police. They say Panter was shot on the
34:36
Speaker 1: corner of Woodland Circle and Windburn Drive as he tried
34:39
Speaker 1: to protect a truck he used for a tree trimming
34:41
Speaker 1: business he recently started. They were breaking in his truck
34:43
Speaker 1: and he came out. Paul and Evan guys. A family
34:48
Speaker 1: is organizing a go fund me to help pay the
34:53
Speaker 1: funeral costs. It's a Knox Panter p A. N. T. E. R.
35:00
Speaker 1: Moyal fun and it's got a great picture of him. Smiling,
35:04
Speaker 1: beautiful picture and the picture that I showed you, and
35:09
Speaker 1: that just breaks my heart. The family needs help to
35:13
Speaker 1: pay for funeral costs. All we can do is pray
35:20
Speaker 1: for the family. And you may be thinking, oh, he's
35:27
Speaker 1: going to miss so much, and but what he's done
35:32
Speaker 1: is he's gone ahead of us. We're the ones behind.
35:35
Speaker 1: He's gone on ahead of us to Heaven. I just
35:38
Speaker 1: hate it so bad for his family. But all we
35:41
Speaker 1: can do now is try to find the people that
35:45
Speaker 1: took his life over nothing and left him there to
35:50
Speaker 1: bleed out? What is that grandma going to think every
35:53
Speaker 1: time she walks out of her front porch, She's going
35:56
Speaker 1: to look there and think that's where a Knox was killed. Old,
36:01
Speaker 1: try to take care of me. Jip line four zero
36:05
Speaker 1: four seven six one two one seven seven repeat four
36:10
Speaker 1: zero four two seven six one two one seven seven,
36:14
Speaker 1: or you can go online to a glover a glover
36:19
Speaker 1: at East Point City dot org. Nancy Grace crime story
36:24
Speaker 1: signing off good Bye friend,