Latest / Resilience and Relationships (R&R) / Unmasking the Unknown Number: A Shocking Documentary Review - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders

Transcript

Unmasking the Unknown Number: A Shocking Documentary Review - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders · Resilience and Relationships (R&R)

• 0:17
  Unknown: Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships R and R. I'm Stephanie Olson. I'm here with Becca Saunders, yes, and we are going to talk about a documentary that is just blowing up all of the conversation and things. It is unknown number on Netflix. And this is your official spoiler alert. If you have seen it yet, thank you.
• 0:42
  Unknown: Yes, we're gonna see this. Pause it, go watch it. Come back to this, because it is astounding.
• 0:55
  Unknown: And I don't know I watched it, and I was absolutely blown away.
• 1:03
  Unknown: Yeah, so let's so we should probably just talk a little bit about the premise of it, and then what what actually happened? So unknown number is about a young high school girl who Lauren le carry, I think is her name, and this was out of Michigan. So this young high school student, Lauren le carry, was dating her boyfriend, also a high school student, Owen McKinney, and she started receiving these harassing text messages on her phone, and it was from an unknown number, but these text messages were gruesome.
• 1:54
  Unknown: It was bad, yeah, you know, first one wasn't I mean, right?
• 1:58
  Unknown: They got progressively worse, but even the first one was still bad, yes, and it it looked like it was from someone who wanted to perhaps be in a relationship with Owen. And so it started out like, Owen doesn't care about you. Owen doesn't love you. He should be with me. And then it got progressively worse, telling her to go herself, that just these horrible words that we cannot say on this podcast, correct, correct. We'd have to use the little beep thing, yeah, a lot, but it was bad, I mean, and so just to, just to stop there, this went on for a year and a half. Is that right? I believe that's about right. Yeah, it was an extended period of time, yeah. And actually, what was so interesting was Lauren, actually, they broke up throughout this, which was, I mean, who can handle something like this as an adult, let alone as high school students. They broke up. He started dating somebody else who went to it was like school at school, yeah, yeah, it wasn't even close. And she started receiving these, and Owen was receiving them, and they were never stopped for Lauren, right, right? So even after they broke up, Lauren was still receiving the messages. Then all of a sudden, this other girl is receiving similar messages. She breaks up with him right away. I mean, she's like, I'm not even dealing with this. So it was a constant thing. And just to pause there, I can't imagine, you know, we we've talked about cyber bullying in the work we do. I don't know if we've really talked about it here, but I cannot imagine receiving consistent texts like that, telling me what a horrible person I am and to go myself and and on and on and on. I mean, at one point I don't remember exactly what they said, but I want to say it was, like upwards of 4050, a day at some points where it was the worst, yeah.
• 4:16
  Unknown: Like, how can that not break you down right? And it was, and to that point, it was all day, every day, and sometimes in the middle of the night. I mean, it was, it was constant. And so whoever this was, was somebody who obviously had it out for Lauren, and then the other girlfriend, but certainly had some sort of infatuation or or wanted obsession, obsession.
• 4:52
  Unknown: That's the word, yeah. So it, it was just, it was.
• 5:00
  Unknown: It was appalling. Go ahead. Do you want to and, yeah, well, something I found interesting as I was watching, because I felt like I was screaming internally, like, take away the phone, right? And that was something that I found very interesting.
• 5:15
  Unknown: And of course, at the end, you have some other information that might make a little more sense, but just, you know, okay, for a while, parents weren't told about this, right? Once they were, they the miners still had their phones, yeah, and I just kept thinking, No, take it, take it away. And their reasoning was, we want to be able to catch the person who did this, and if we take away the phone or change the number, we can't catch them.
• 5:36
  Unknown: And and yet, here's what I would say to that you can put the phone in somebody else's hands, right, keep the phone, put it in someone else's hands, but if I remember correctly, didn't a number get changed? At one point, I want to say Owen's number got changed. Yeah, maybe his, I know hers never did.
• 5:57
  Unknown: Maybe his never did, but I think so also very supportive parents in both cases. So just parents who were invested, they would go to the school. What can we do?
• 6:13
  Unknown: But I am pretty sure Owen's number got changed, and then this person got Owen's number as well. It's so such a scary thought that this can't even happen, yeah, for one, but just seeing the the depth of the situation, right, exactly. So then there's the big reveal.
• 6:32
  Unknown: This is toward the very end. So, yes, seriously, if you haven't watched it yet, stop Olson, go watch it. It's gonna ruin the whole thing. It will ruin it. It will ruin it. Because the big reveal was that the entire time this was happening, it was actually Lauren's mom who was doing the unknown number, texting Can I tell you when I was watching this, it was at night.
• 7:05
  Unknown: I already put my kids to bed, and I was like, what? So loud that I woke up my baby.
• 7:13
  Unknown: Poor guy.
• 7:14
  Unknown: Poor guy so scared. Like, what's going on? Mom? Oh, man, that shocked me. It was shocking and, and, so here's okay. So couple things. First of all, Kendra is mom. Mom said she didn't start it. She just kept going. So she didn't start the text, but once they started, she kept going. I call BS on that. Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. No way, no way, she absolutely started it. Because, okay, even if she didn't, let's just take her for her word, which is not, not real, not worth much, but let's say she didn't start it. Why in the world, after seeing how this affected your daughter, would you pick that up and keep going?
• 8:10
  Unknown: And do you remember why she said she kept doing it?
• 8:14
  Unknown: I honestly no, I don't remember what her excuse was. I don't know. I remember watching it and just thinking that doesn't even make sense. It doesn't, it doesn't well. And you find out too that she had been lying about going to work.
• 8:34
  Unknown: So, like, that's how she had the time to send all these messages, is because she wasn't working right. And so it was literally what she was focused on all day, every day, yes, and there were some text messages that made it sound like it was a kid from school, because it would be, yeah, you know you're wearing whatever, making fun of her outfit or saying you don't need to do this that the other while the mom was active in the school, right, right? And trying to blame it on other teenagers.
• 9:01
  Unknown: Yes, in fact, there was a young girl, and I had really mixed feelings about some of this, but there was a young girl who was blamed for it, and she went through, I mean, torture and trauma during her time at school because the parents were saying she did it.
• 9:26
  Unknown: The school was involved. Law enforcement was was talking to her and that she was the person who was doing this. I think everybody believed that, and yet she wasn't. They made a good case. Yeah. I mean, even at first I was like, Oh, I guess this is why I wasn't completely sold. But, I mean, it looked probable from the information they were giving out, especially that picture. There was a picture that was sent at one time where who else would have access.
• 10:00
  Unknown: House behind the house, right, right? It was good framing, right? The the one thing that bothered me about that at the very end, they interviewed, well, they interviewed her parents throughout the young gal who was blamed for it and and that's horrible. I feel terrible for her, and absolutely her parents should blame Kendra mom for this 100% the thing that bothered me is the parents also blamed Lauren and indicated that she was involved that was unfortunate, and I think maybe it's because of her reaction, because she did not completely disown her mom.
• 10:46
  Unknown: She still wants a relationship with her mom. But I'll ask, I mean, what teenage girl wouldn't want a relationship with her mother? Yeah, especially a mom who has been involved and has been there for your games and all these things, it's hard for your brain to rationalize. This person that I have good memories with has also hurt me well, and I think that's a really important point. I want to come back to that one of the things I will give kudos to Lauren's dad, 110% because when it came out, when law enforcement was actually at Lauren's house and was confronting. They confronted Kendra first, and then they confronted or then they told Lauren that this was your mom.
• 11:40
  Unknown: What bothered me so much is that Kendra went over and started hugging Lauren, like, I'm holding that. And it did. It did me too, but to your point. And then let me finish my sentence.
• 11:55
  Unknown: And then dad was told. And Dad said, get out. And I was so proud of that response. He's like, I don't even care well, because he found out, not only was Kendra the one doing it, but he also found out that Kendra had not worked for a year and a half, and their family was struggling financially. Yes, the whole time he thought she was working, right? So, I mean, she just destroyed her family, legitimately destroyed her family. And so I really did appreciate the dad standing up and saying, Nope, call your parents. You're out of here.
• 12:37
  Unknown: This is you're not staying here.
• 12:37
  Unknown: And that was not like, he was pretty calm too. He was firm, but he wasn't mean, no, he was just like, well, this is not happening. We need space from you. I can't even imagine finding that out. I mean, really, like, I can't, on any level, imagine finding that out, that that would be horrifying.
• 12:57
  Unknown: It's just I can't imagine, but, and, yeah, sorry. No, go ahead, for those of you who may not have seen it yet, the reason we know these reactions, it was from police body cam, so it wasn't a retelling, like we saw his actual reaction on the documentary. Yes, and it was so good. I gotta say, I super love body cam. I, I think I've said I'm kind of addicted to body camera, rest. I'm like, drunk driving. It's, it's just fascinating. And I think it just saves a whole lot of a whole lot, you know, because there's you can't, you can't hide it. When there's even someone who's trying to tell the truth about a situation, you'll forget details, especially in a tense situation, right? So it's good to have facts, absolutely, faxed. Faxed. Yes, facts, facts, no. That is right. So okay, so then to your point about a young girl, you know, we do. We talk about this. I just recently spoke at a conference, and we were talking about trauma, and talking specifically about sexual and domestic violence among youth. And one of the things I always remind individuals who are working with youth who come from domestic violence situations is we have to remember, as frustrating as it is for us, as much as we look at that and say, No way, that is not acceptable. That child should be taken from that home.
• 14:39
  Unknown: This is mom or dad, and this is someone I love, and whether they have hurt me or not, I want a relationship with mom or dad. I mean, that is just human nature.
• 14:59
  Unknown: I.
• 15:00
  Unknown: And even those of us who have been abandoned by parents, that initial thing is, I want a mom, a dad, whatever. And so it is not. It is shocking to see Lauren's response to her mom, because I would, you know, you don't know what you're what you would do in those situations, obviously, but my thought process is like you did. You did what you told me to what I mean. You called me what.
• 15:34
  Unknown: And Lauren didn't respond like that at all in that moment. And I'm sure that it there was a swirling of, I have no idea what's happening right now, just in a fog, it's too much to process, right, right? Like, that's gonna take a long time for her. That's a lot of therapy. Seriously, I can't even imagine. What I don't like is some of the things I've seen online about she's so dumb for wanting to be with her mom. What is wrong with her? There's nothing wrong with her. No, she had a horrible thing happen to her. Yep, and that's trauma, and so that's the one thing that really kind of upset me about the other parents. I understand their anger for their daughter, that their daughter lost out on a year of life because she was accused of this thing that some mom did to her own daughter. And so I get that anger, but I would not put the fault on Lauren in the least. Yeah, she's a young girl, so here's why. Kendra said she did it.
• 16:56
  Unknown: She experienced past trauma.
• 16:56
  Unknown: That's that's one of the reasons. So she says that when she was a young girl at 17, that she was essayed. And so as Lauren approached that age, she feared her daughter would experience, yes, would experience a similar trauma, and so she was doing the cyber bullying to control kind of that journey, and making sure her daughter wasn't experiencing the same thing she was so respond to that, because there's like three reasons she said that it happened. But that's number one, even Okay, me like my thing, right? Even if I completely believed that, which I don't, even if I believe that was a reasoning, it still does not explain some of the things like, why are you still messaging Owen even after they broke up?
• 18:05
  Unknown: Right? Why are you there were pictures of him with Lauren's face scratched out, like, right?
• 18:11
  Unknown: You know, I No, that does not explain everything, and it definitely doesn't excuse it.
• 18:19
  Unknown: No, why are you messaging other girlfriend to me? I think I'm trying to choose my words in a way that will be compassionate.
• 18:27
  Unknown: I It's a struggle. Yes, I, I believe that something probably did happen. I don't think that the vast majority of people would lie about that happening to them. There are some who do, but I think the majority Yes. So could that have happened to her when she was younger? Sure?
• 18:48
  Unknown: Is that a reason that excuses this behavior? No. And I think that one of the things that makes me frustrated is when we see people grown adults who say, Oh yes, well, I did this horrific thing, but you know, when I was younger, I was I had something horrific done to me. I I feel for them. I'm sorry that that thing happened to you, but let's not pretend that anyone who's ever been assaulted will then go and do something horrible. It's not that's not the path you have to follow.
• 19:23
  Unknown: Yes, I too, have experienced sa during my teenage years through my 20s by several people, and I know not everybody responds the same to traumatic events. We know that it looks different with different people, but it would never occur to me to prevent my children from experiencing the same thing by harassing them and traumatizing them.
• 20:00
  Unknown: And I'm going to give you this trauma so you don't experience this trauma. I mean, it makes no sense to me, what you would probably do, more likely is kind of become a helicopter parent. You know? I'm just going to make sure that everything my child does doesn't result in this, but yeah, makes it we don't know their whole story.
• 20:27
  Unknown: I'm not going to pretend like we do, but I think there may have been elements of that, that helicopter parenting there, I'm guessing, just by how often she was at the school. Oh, that's true, yeah.
• 20:41
  Unknown: You know what just occurred to me.
• 20:44
  Unknown: Here's the other thing.
• 20:47
  Unknown: Why in the world would you agree to do this documentary?
• 20:55
  Unknown: Yeah, I don't know, because it does not make her look good. And not only did she participate in this, she so that says something else to me about her. And I think if you look at you know, I'm gonna do this, it's narcissistic.
• 21:21
  Unknown: Is what it is. I mean, she wants it to be about her. She wants it to be, I don't know. I just the fact that she would even agree to be on that documentary to show what a terrible mother she appears to be, I don't know, I think that says a lot about Yeah, that is strange. I can't imagine going on filming about the worst thing I've ever done for the world to see, you know, no, no, it would be horrifying. Okay, So reason number two, she said she did it was she wanted to find the real bully.
• 22:08
  Unknown: No, sorry, sorry, that's my commentary. No, I know there's like nothing you can say. What?
• 22:14
  Unknown: How does that? Yeah, I think the reason that she helped convince everyone, let's, let's keep the kids having their phone is like she continue, she could continue the harassment. But like, that doesn't make any sense. And okay, I think it's important we left out a something here. So if you're watching this and you're not going to watch the documentary, The the numbers that the children, teenagers would get texts from, were all these different numbers. There was an app that could scramble a phone number so blocking doesn't work, they'll keep coming through. And the way that the police were able to find out that it was her is because there was one base like, phone number that all came from that, which was her, yeah, it's which, which is really intentional. I mean, it's not, it's not like, I don't know. It's so weird to me. The whole thing is so weird, but, but not only did she intentionally utilize an app to scramble numbers, she did it all day long. She did it in the evening.
• 23:29
  Unknown: This was her focus for a year and a half. I mean, this was her everything for a year and a half. It is so fascinating and and it'd be interesting to do a study of that woman's brain, but the other reason she said she wanted to do it was kind of for an escape for her life. And here's what I say to that, watch Netflix. You know, if you want to escape from your life, watch stupid shows and binge them. And there are other ways. There are other ways other than bullying your own child. And I think that that escapism is something that we see a lot. Yeah, you know this, people use that for a reason for cheating, right? Or people use that. I mean, just watch the show catfish, right?
• 24:25
  Unknown: That's right. Over and over we see that. And so that, that, to me, is the most believable thing out of what she said is that she wanted an escape from her life.
• 24:36
  Unknown: Yeah, yeah, the fact that this is what she chose for her escape, I feel like tells you everything you need to know about her values, right?
• 24:44
  Unknown: Well, and I'm always I have been fascinated for years by Munchausen syndrome by proxy. So Munchausen syndrome is when you make yourself sick to get a 10.
• 25:00
  Unknown: Attention you hurt yourself. So whether it's through illness, whether it's through other but you're hurting yourself to get attention. A lot of times, people with Munchausen syndrome are constantly at the hospital.
• 25:13
  Unknown: What we hear a lot about is Munchausen syndrome by proxy, which is often, very often, a mom who does the same thing to her child. And so we've seen very dramatic things. I mean, you know, moms poisoning their children so that they can get sick, so that they can go in and get care, or just doing really horrific things. And when that happens, usually the child is not aware that mom is doing this. But and then the doctors tend to usually, they have to move from different hospital to different hospital, because somebody will be alerted to it, and then they moved somewhere else, right? So one of the things they said was, this is cyber Much, much housing syndrome by proxy, which is just fascinating. So it's really the same type of sickness, but it's, it was done through cyber bullying. And it's just, it's fascinating that you would do something like this.
• 26:32
  Unknown: The only difference that I see, well, no, I guess that's not true. I was gonna say the only difference is she didn't get the attention like you would taking your child into the hospital. I think she did. It's not true.
• 26:49
  Unknown: Yeah, she absolutely did it. She was up at the school and getting all the sympathy and well, and that, that feeling of, I need to be needed that was satisfied, because Lauren would come home and like, presumably, she would cry a lot about this and be upset and reach out to her mom.
• 27:05
  Unknown: That's what I'm saving. And so, yeah, there was an element of that there. Yeah, it's something I've wondered, too, is, what other conditioning has taken place? You know, we know about this situation, what has happened at home, behind closed doors years prior to that? You know what other mental, emotional manipulation has happened between mom and daughter in the home?
• 27:34
  Unknown: Because I'm sure this is not a one off that's a little too extreme, right? You know, you don't typically. It's no different than trafficking, right? You don't typically start there. You start with other things. It builds up unless you're born into it, and it's a family thing, but, but same thing, yeah, I Where did it start? Because you know none of them based on what we know now.
• 27:59
  Unknown: Had a super healthy you can't have a super healthy marriage.
• 28:07
  Unknown: You can't have a super healthy relationship with your mom if it is based on absolute lies. And yeah, that's a good point.
• 28:21
  Unknown: Yeah. Hmm, that's interesting. So, so what else? What are your when, when we look at kind of the work we do, what are some of your your thoughts with that?
• 28:37
  Unknown: Well, I think this is a good example of you can't trust someone based on their role in your life. They need to earn that trust through their behavior. So just because someone is a parent, a spouse, you know, a friend, a teacher, whatever position, especially positions of authority, right they hold in your life, that you're told you need to respect, that you need to trust, that we really need to be looking at their behaviors to determine if they are trustworthy.
• 29:10
  Unknown: That's good. You know my daughter, when she was a freshman, I believe the school she was in had a demerit system, and one of her teachers, brand new teacher, kind of wanted to assert her authority. My middle daughter is a very strong personality. She's so much like me. I always say she's like me in the really good ways. She's like my husband in the really bad ways.
• 29:42
  Unknown: Just kidding, but she, she and I are a lot alike, and one of those is just strong willed and and so she would just really fight back in a not in a physical or verbal way, but.
• 30:00
  Unknown: You know, if she didn't do something wrong, she would say, I didn't do anything wrong. Why are you accusing me of doing something wrong? We wound up in the principal's office with ironically, the teacher wasn't there. That's who I would want to talk to. But the principal and us, and the principal actually said because my daughter said, No, this isn't this isn't right. There are things that she accuses me of that aren't true, and that's when I I respond like, No, I didn't do that. And the principal actually said she's the adult. She's always right?
• 30:41
  Unknown: Those are fighting words. Those are fighting words, yes, and she did not stay in that school. I will tell you that right now, but I just that is such a good point you make, because so often we're taught roles are authority, and that's where we need to look at the authority.
• 31:01
  Unknown: When or and we talk about the grooming process, we talk about a trustworthy person, and what those relationships are, it's it's not roles that we can count on, it's characteristics of an individual. And are they somebody that you can trust, is that somebody that that is has has earned the respect and yeah, so I think that's a really good point. Good on your daughter for being strong enough to stand up for herself. She is, yeah, unfortunately that that also came to me. But no, she's, she's a fabulous human being, and is going to school for to be an attorney. So it worked out really well. Yes, yes, exactly.
• 31:49
  Unknown: Man, I'm like, getting worked up internally just thinking about that like this is an adult, so you need to do what they say, Oh, that is so dangerous. It's dangerous. Like people want to do harm to minors, rely on that yes And absolutely, yeah, it is dangerous. And, and that is a mentality I think that is out there, like, this is your and even you know, when we're talking about the things, we talk about recognizing that even mom and dad family members can be perpetrators and can be people who want to do harm. That's why we don't use the word predator, because when we think about whatever I had a an eighth grader say to me once, oh, yeah, what's a predator? Oh, I know what a predator is. It's like that old guy, that creepy old guy in a trench coat, like, super old, like 30. I mean, that's actually what she said, and that we have this mindset of what that looks like. So if mom is the person who wants to do harm, how do we? How do we? That is reconciled? It doesn't, it doesn't. So we have to really come away from from that role mindset and teach there are people want to do harm, and unfortunately, that can be somebody we grew up with, somebody we love, somebody we trust. Yeah, you know, I came from a family that is very heavy on respect, especially respecting your elders, and I think that's a good thing. Yeah, one of the things that I've changed in the way that I talk to my kids is, you know, I expect Yes, sir, yes, ma'am. I expect politeness.
• 33:42
  Unknown: I expect you to, you know, listen. But also, if they ever tell you to do something that feels funny, you say no and come get Mom. Right, always right. If it's okay, I'll tell you it's okay. And if it's not, we'll deal with it, but Right? If it makes you have that funny feeling something's not quite right, you don't have to do it right?
• 34:09
  Unknown: Yeah, I think that's really important to teach kids. And that goes back to the consent thing. Like you don't have to hug somebody just because they said, hug me. You don't have to give Grandma a kiss, you don't have to allow somebody to touch your shoulder or whatever, because you don't have to do that. And teaching that at a young age is really, really important, and I don't know how all of that could have helped this situation with unknown color, because it's such a bizarre thing. But I do think that's important, because I think this is an anomaly. You know.
• 35:00
  Unknown: Definitely see this unknown color type stuff happen as much, but we are going to see the other stuff happen, and so I think just making sure that we have those conversations with our kids, and then don't be a gross person yourself. Please don't do this to your children, yeah, this is not good parenting, right? Yeah. So we were talking before offline about trauma bonding, and that, obviously it's a little different with parents, you know, because you already have that bond, but that, I think that bond can, you know, if you have somebody who is doing something malicious to you, like this, that bond can be broken, but then you've got that different layer of trauma bonding. So you want to talk about what that is, yeah. So, I mean, there's a few different ways that that can look but even if someone has caused you immense harm, there is a relationship built before that harm comes into the picture. And so sometimes what can happen is the person who has been harmed is thinking, okay, that happened, but I have this catalog of positive things before, so I still feel that we have a close relationship, and it's hard for the mind to justify that harm that happened versus the positive things that have happened. And so what we can see is the person who's been harmed still genuinely loves the other person and wants to pursue a close relationship with them and keep that intact.
• 36:47
  Unknown: What about trauma bonding when it's not even somebody who I've had a relationship previously, but the trauma bond happens with somebody who maybe I don't know that well, like, when you've gone through this traumatic experience together and it pulls you closer. Mm, hmm, yeah. So, I mean, we see that with, like, you know, there's a lot of of things with individuals. You know, kidnapping does happen, doesn't happen a lot surrounding human trafficking, but it does absolutely happen. And so you see these situations where a child is is kidnapped, or young whatever, and they start to bond with their abuser and their kidnapper, and so that is exactly what that what that can look like, and that's hard for people to understand. But when you have trauma, you have to remember that your trauma memory and your trauma mindset is no longer the same as it was before, and that grooming process and all of that trauma starts to create trauma memories which are not necessarily linear and don't always make sense to the outside individuals watch watching it. I was thinking through i I'm not going to tell details of the story, because I'm gonna get them wrong. But I was listening to another podcast the other day, and it was talking about a situation where a young woman had been kidnapped and she was with her abuser for years and years and years, and I mean, that's prime example of bonding through that traumatic experience, because even when she had the ability to leave, she wouldn't Right, right? And I think that it's easy to look at that from the outside and say, Oh, my goodness, you had a chance to run. Why wouldn't you run? Well, there's a whole host of reasons. Why not, absolutely. Well, you look at domestic violence situations and that, you know, I was in one of those, and you they say that it takes seven times before somebody actually leaves their abuser, and seven times of leaving and coming back, seven times of leaving and Coming back, and that sometimes the most dangerous time, not sometimes the most dangerous time is when people have actually left their abuser, and that can be the most dangerous time for the individual who's being abused. And so it's just, it's not a it's not an easy path, especially when there are other people involved, right? I mean, we see people all the time that will stay in those relationships that are so dangerous for them because they're children, yeah, and they know that whenever they leave and that abuser loses control, they don't want to put those kids in even more danger, right? And so, I mean, I.
• 40:00
  Unknown: Yeah, I think it's really important for us not to look at one one documentary or news article or whatever, and then think, Oh, well, I would do it so differently. You don't really know. We don't know. You don't know. And although I hope that what happened to Lauren and Owen and I hope that never happens again, but how everybody responded is going to be something that we can't really judge, because you don't know, I cannot imagine finding out the person that I just spent 20 years of my life with is not that person at all.
• 40:49
  Unknown: I cannot even imagine that. And that would take a lot of that would that would just be very difficult. Well, so if you are coming back after watching Unknown caller and watching this podcast with us mind blown, right? I mean, that's that's exactly what I think. But if you haven't seen it, just it is one of those things that it is hard to believe anybody would do that to their child or anyone they love. But again, it's just, it's a such an interesting commentary on and you kind of wonder. I mean, you can't really go here, but this obviously couldn't have happened. You know, years ago, before social media or before texting, I guess. And so what would that have looked like?
• 41:49
  Unknown: Because it's not that maybe she wouldn't have been abusive, because this is abuse, she wouldn't have been abusive, maybe it would have looked totally different. But you know, that can change so easily because of the things that we have access to and the ability to do things from our couch at home that we could have never done before. So it's definitely worth a watch if you haven't seen it, yeah, and don't think you're going to walk away from it going, Oh, that was heartwarming. It's not one of those. It is not one of those.
• 42:25
  Unknown: So let us know what you think about it. Yes. Please. Comment, email. You know, we want to hear your thoughts on this too. Yeah, and this is part of the reason we do what we do, because we want to really prevent even these things from happening, we want to give people an understanding of how what this looks like, or how to start responding and and I would say, you know, kudos to Owens parents who who did handle this as well as they could, and to Lauren's dad, and just some of the people into the law enforcement officers who did a really good work in this and got some answers, but on the school, school leadership too. I mean, at one point they were looking at Cameras trying to see when kids were texting. I mean, they really tried to Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we'd love to hear what you think and maybe what you want to hear us talk about next time.
• 43:30
  Unknown: But, yeah, good documentary.
• 43:30
  Unknown: Well done. Bah, wow, that's all that is a really good explanation. Thank you.
• 43:42
  Unknown: That's technical. That's technical. Well, thanks for joining us. We will see you next time or talk to you next time on resilience and relationships.
• 43:51
  Unknown: Get some RNR. See you next time you you.