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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger And The Missing Knife · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back into the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Moscow murders and a little bit more about the evidence
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: that they have against Brian Kohlberger and the piece of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: evidence that the police and the prosecutors definitely wish that
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: they could have recovered. So let's just dive right in
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  Speaker 1: and let's see what Newsweek has for us. Headline. the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: missing Brian Koberger evidence that could make or break the trial.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Sean O'Driscoll. They were found
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: lifeless together on the bed, Kelly Gonsalves and her best friend,
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  Speaker 1: Madison Maddy-Mogan, both 21, and on another floor of the Moscow,
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  Speaker 1: Idaho house, police found the bodies of two other students,
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  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, 20, and Kernodle's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, 20. Now,
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  Speaker 1: an expert told Newsweek there is one piece of evidence
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  Speaker 1: missing that could make or break the trial. Mogan was
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  Speaker 1: leaning on Gonsalves' shoulder. Gonsalves had been having a sleepover
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  Speaker 1: in Mogan's third-floor room on the night of November 13, 2022,
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  Speaker 1: when an unknown killer stabbed both women to death. On
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  Speaker 1: the bed beside their bodies, Moscow police officer Brett Payne
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  Speaker 1: noticed a tan leather knife sheath with a drop of
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  Speaker 1: blood on the button snap. That drop of blood is
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  Speaker 1: now central to the case against Brian Koberger, who has
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  Speaker 1: been charged with all four murders at the student's house
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  Speaker 1: on King Road. And that knife sheath is the glue
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  Speaker 1: that ties all of the evidence in its totality together.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why Brian Koberger's team has been so adamant
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  Speaker 1: to get it all thrown out. They know that this
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  Speaker 1: is the evidence that will sink their client. And they
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  Speaker 1: know that the sheath is the biggest piece of evidence
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  Speaker 1: that the police have. The rest of this evidence, if
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't for the sheath, I'd be much more inclined
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  Speaker 1: to look at it as nothing more than circumstantial. Now,
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  Speaker 1: even without the knife sheath, in the totality of the evidence,
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  Speaker 1: it's a lot, but not enough to get a conviction
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  Speaker 1: in my opinion. But once you add his DNA to
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  Speaker 1: the knife sheath, and this sheath is found next to
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  Speaker 1: the two dead girls, well, what should we think? I
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  Speaker 1: guess you can come up with whatever reasoning you want
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  Speaker 1: for how that knife sheath got there, but remember, you're
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: going to have to explain that to a jury. The
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  Speaker 1: sheath itself is a vital clue. It had K-Bar, USMC,
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  Speaker 1: and the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and anchor
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  Speaker 1: insignia stamped on the outside of it, Officer Payne wrote
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  Speaker 1: in a signed statement submitted in court. Police speculate that
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  Speaker 1: the killer may have been startled to find two women
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  Speaker 1: in the bed and that Gonsalves may have put up
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  Speaker 1: a fight, during which the killer was slightly injured and
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  Speaker 1: dropped the knife sheath in the confusion. And this is
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  Speaker 1: the first we're hearing about that. But that's what I've
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  Speaker 1: been saying for quite some time. I think that Kohlberger
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  Speaker 1: thought he was going to show up at this house
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  Speaker 1: and it was just going to be Maddie in that bed.
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  Speaker 1: And he was surprised to find Kaylee there and things
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  Speaker 1: spun out of control. And that's why you see the
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  Speaker 1: quote-unquote overkill on Kaylee. Because he was mad that she
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  Speaker 1: interrupted his time with Madison Mogan. Now, obviously, that's my speculation, right?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have access to the reports.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not there behind the scenes. But when we look
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  Speaker 1: at all of the evidence we have and we look
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  Speaker 1: at what we know, that seems to be the likeliest
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  Speaker 1: of outcomes. A housemate downstairs, frozen with fear, saw a
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  Speaker 1: man wearing a COVID mask over his mouth, walked by her,
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  Speaker 1: and leave the house via the glass door at the back.
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  Speaker 1: He was a white male with bushy eyebrows. He wasn't muscular,
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  Speaker 1: she told the police, but was slim and athletic. Now,
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  Speaker 1: there's people that say he was wearing a ski mask,
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  Speaker 1: and I had never heard that from any official source.
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  Speaker 1: I always assumed that he was just wearing a surgical mask.
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  Speaker 1: And if that's the case, he was just wearing a
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  Speaker 1: surgical mask. You could see how Dylan Mortensen could have
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  Speaker 1: mistaken him for somebody that was there partying, like has
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  Speaker 1: been speculated about in the past. You know, the roommates
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  Speaker 1: were having a party and she thought that this was
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  Speaker 1: somebody just leaving the party. My guess is we're going
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  Speaker 1: to learn a whole lot more come trial time. According
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  Speaker 1: to Payne's legal submissions, police immediately began a troll of
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  Speaker 1: CCTV footage in the area and very quickly focused on
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  Speaker 1: a white car speeding down the street very soon after
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  Speaker 1: the murder. Officer Payne said he knew the Moscow street
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  Speaker 1: where the murders took place and knew that it was quiet.
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  Speaker 1: and would rarely have traffic on it in the early
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  Speaker 1: hours of the morning. And that's definitely a pitfall if
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  Speaker 1: you're trying to commit a crime in a small town.
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  Speaker 1: There's not that much traffic to blend into. When they
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  Speaker 1: put all the video together, a picture began to emerge.
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  Speaker 1: The car had no front number plate, which is required
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  Speaker 1: by law in Idaho, but not in some other states
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  Speaker 1: such as Pennsylvania. The police took the video footage to
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  Speaker 1: an FBI officer who specializes in identifying vehicles. Not only
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  Speaker 1: was the officer an expert on types and makes of vehicles,
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  Speaker 1: but he also knew that there was regional differences in
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  Speaker 1: the same make of the car. Sometimes a certain part
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  Speaker 1: may be used for cars sold in one part of America,
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  Speaker 1: but not in another. The FBI agent initially identified the
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  Speaker 1: car as a Hyundai Elantra made between 2011 and 2014,
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  Speaker 1: but after reviewing the footage over and over, looking for
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  Speaker 1: small clues, he expanded his range from 2011 to 2016.
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  Speaker 1: While he was doing that, Moscow police were studying the
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  Speaker 1: likely journey the car took after the murders. The car
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  Speaker 1: turned onto several other streets and then disappeared from CCTV footage.
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  Speaker 1: That led them to believe it had turned onto a
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  Speaker 1: ramp that would lead the driver to a road to
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  Speaker 1: Pullman in Washington State, another college town about 10 minutes
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  Speaker 1: down the road. So when we were talking about them
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  Speaker 1: building a digital profile and a digital footprint, this is
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  Speaker 1: what I was talking about. They went back and recreated
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  Speaker 1: just about every step of Brian Koberger's day that they could.
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  Speaker 1: As Officer Payne observed, there were strong ties between the
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  Speaker 1: two towns and students often travel from one town to
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  Speaker 1: another to see each other. With that, the massive police
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  Speaker 1: search moved to Pullman. A search of the CCTV footage
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  Speaker 1: from the college in Pullman and a private residence front
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  Speaker 1: porch shows a white Elantra showing up about 10 minutes
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  Speaker 1: after the suspect's Elantra left Moscow. It drives through several
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  Speaker 1: Pullman streets before disappearing from view. Eventually, a Pullman police
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  Speaker 1: officer identified a white Elantra belonging to student Brian Kohlberger,
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  Speaker 1: originally from Pennsylvania. From the driveway, the officer could see
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: that the car had no front license plate. Officer Payne
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  Speaker 1: ran a computer search and from Kohlberger's driver's license photo
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  Speaker 1: could see that he was a slim white male with
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  Speaker 1: bushy eyebrows. He also pulled Kohlberger's phone number from the
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  Speaker 1: police computer. Koberger had been stopped for speeding in Moscow
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  Speaker 1: and his phone number was in their computer system. From there,
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  Speaker 1: the phone company was able to provide phone tower records
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  Speaker 1: which can tell police where a person has traveled. To
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  Speaker 1: the police's dismay, the phone showed no record of being
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  Speaker 1: near the murder house that night. Payne believed Koberger could
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  Speaker 1: have left the phone in Pullman where it had earlier
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  Speaker 1: pinged the local phone towers or he may have switched
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  Speaker 1: it to airplane mode and brought it with him to Moscow.
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  Speaker 1: Either way, Payne believed, it pointed to someone who knew
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  Speaker 1: how to avoid detection. Kohlberger was placed under covert police
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  Speaker 1: and FBI surveillance, and they discovered that he would be
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  Speaker 1: traveling back to Pennsylvania in his Elantra. Several teams were
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  Speaker 1: instructed to follow him across America and never let him
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  Speaker 1: out of their sight. And remember, during this time, there
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  Speaker 1: was talk that the surveillance had lost Kohlberger for a
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  Speaker 1: significant period of time while he was traveling from Washington
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  Speaker 1: back to Pennsylvania, but then the FBI came out and
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  Speaker 1: they refuted that. In an incident that is still clouded
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  Speaker 1: in mystery, a traffic policeman stopped Kohlberger's car and spoke
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  Speaker 1: with him briefly. The officer was wearing a body cam
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  Speaker 1: and Officer Payne was quickly able to review the video
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  Speaker 1: footage and establish that Kohlberger had bushy eyebrows. It was
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  Speaker 1: important for police to see what he looked like in
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  Speaker 1: real life and not simply rely on a driver license photo.
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  Speaker 1: We still don't know if this was a genuine police
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  Speaker 1: stop or given the speed with which the body cam
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  Speaker 1: footage was recovered, a police ploy to get closer and
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  Speaker 1: get a look at Koberger. I'd say it was probably
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  Speaker 1: a ploy, but they're not going to come out and
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  Speaker 1: admit that. The knife sheath blood came back from DNA
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  Speaker 1: analysis and it was from a male. The police still
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  Speaker 1: didn't have Koberger's DNA to compare to the knife sheath
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  Speaker 1: blood drop and didn't want to arouse Koberger's suspicion of especially,
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  Speaker 1: as they wanted to see, if he would dispose of
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  Speaker 1: the knife somewhere on the drive across America. As far
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  Speaker 1: as they could tell, he didn't. He got rid of
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  Speaker 1: that knife on the way home from the murders, point blank, period.
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  Speaker 1: There is no doubt in my mind. I've said this
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  Speaker 1: from the very beginning. This man had a burn pit,
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  Speaker 1: he got rid of a bunch of evidence, and my
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  Speaker 1: guess is that evidence included the knife and whatever sort
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  Speaker 1: of plastic covering he had in his car after the murders.
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  Speaker 1: When he was back at the family home in Pennsylvania,
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  Speaker 1: he remained under 24-hour surveillance, and police saw him empty
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  Speaker 1: out the trash in the early hours of the morning.
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  Speaker 1: When he went back into the house, they carefully sifted
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  Speaker 1: through the garbage. There was no knife or anything incriminating.
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  Speaker 1: Lab technicians did, however, extract a DNA sample from a
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  Speaker 1: food sample in the trash. The lab results show that
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  Speaker 1: Koberger's father could not be excluded as the source of
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  Speaker 1: the DNA. That may not sound significant, but 99.9999% of
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  Speaker 1: all people could be excluded from the sample. Police were
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  Speaker 1: satisfied it was Koberger's father's DNA. From there, police found
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  Speaker 1: that there was a family link to the Idaho blood drop.
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  Speaker 1: Whoever spilled his own blood in Mogan's room was an
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  Speaker 1: offspring of Koberger's father. Koberger was soon arrested and remains
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  Speaker 1: in detention. However, there are still significant gaps in the investigation,
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  Speaker 1: and Koberger is entitled to a presumption of innocence, 100%
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  Speaker 1: by the court. There's no rule governing any of us
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to our opinions on a court case.
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  Speaker 1: So while of course Brian Koberger deserves to have a trial,
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  Speaker 1: deserves his day in court, I'm not going to sit
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  Speaker 1: here and act like I don't think he's guilty just
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  Speaker 1: because he has the presumption of innocence. That's the presumption
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: in a courtroom, not the presumption in society. Police are
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  Speaker 1: still stuck on a major question. Where is the knife
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  Speaker 1: that was used to commit the murders? Nobody knows. Documents
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  Speaker 1: released last week show that police had been seeking all
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  Speaker 1: of Koberger's search records for the word knife. all of
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  Speaker 1: his wish lists on online shopping sites and all of
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: his online purchases in the hope of finding that he
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  Speaker 1: purchased a knife that matches the sheath found in the
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  Speaker 1: Idaho murder house. So if they just find that he
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  Speaker 1: purchased this knife, it'll go a long way. Now, it's
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  Speaker 1: not as good as having the actual knife, but if
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: they can show the jury that this knife was actually
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  Speaker 1: purchased by Brian Koberger, it will go a long way
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: with the other evidence that they have to get the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: conviction that they want. Amazon and other tech companies have
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: handed over records, and those are now stored in the
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Moscow Police Department. Their contents are not yet publicly known.
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  Speaker 1: Throughout month after month of this intense forensic investigation, Koberger
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: has stayed silent. He has not spoken to police in
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  Speaker 1: interviews and didn't enter a plea when asked to do
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  Speaker 1: so in court. Instead, a not guilty plea was entered
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: on his behalf by the Idaho court. According to former
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: federal prosecutor Nima Rahmani, who is now president of West
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Coast trial lawyers, the lack of murder weapon does not
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  Speaker 1: sink the case against Kohlberger. No, it does not. And
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  Speaker 1: that's because they have the sheath with the DNA on it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: prosecutors would love to have the murder weapon, especially any
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  Speaker 1: DNA on it. But it's not fatal to their case.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: They'll argue that Koberger is more sophisticated than your typical
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  Speaker 1: accused murderer and probably disposed of it somehow, Rachmani told Newsweek. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I agree. And my guess is they're going to have
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: something along the lines of the same speculation that I have.
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  Speaker 1: The fact that he had a burn pit and that
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  Speaker 1: he got rid of this on the ride home. He
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  Speaker 1: also said that Koberger's likely silence at trial may work
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: against him, even though he is legally entitled not to speak.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Even though jurors are instructed that they can infer guilt
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  Speaker 1: from a defendant's silence, implicitly, it may have an effect.
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  Speaker 1: That's why we're seeing a trend with more defendants taking
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the stand, particularly in high-profile cases like Elizabeth Holmes and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Alec Murdaugh, he said. How'd that work out for both
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but are both
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of them in prison or no? And that's exactly where
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger is heading, in my opinion, unless there's some
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: new evidence that pops up or they can prove that
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  Speaker 1: there was prosecutorial misconduct. Short of that happening, I don't
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: see how Brian Koberger is going to wiggle off this hook.
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  Speaker 1: But we're going to be here every step of the
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  Speaker 1: way as this continues to unfold all the way through
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  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's trial. All right, folks, that's going to do
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  Speaker 1: it for this one. If you'd like to contact me,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. All of the information that we discussed can
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.