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Pastors' Perspective-10/08/26 · Pastors Perspective

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Places, everyone, including myself, I'm not in my chair yet.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Hang on. All right, now I'm in my chair. Welcome.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: To Pastor's perspective. Thursday, October 8th, 2026. What do you
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  Speaker 1: guys want to talk about? Preferably things about the Bible,
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  Speaker 1: the Christian faith, it's what we do here on Pastor's Perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Monday through Friday from 3 to 4 p.m. You call
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  Speaker 1: us at 888-564-6173 and we uh do our best to
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  Speaker 1: give you answers to your questions about uh the Bible,
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  Speaker 1: the Gospel, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the prophets, the
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  Speaker 1: Judges, the Adam and Eve, whoever, call in to 888-564-6173.
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  Speaker 1: We also live stream our show on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're watching that way, thank you so much.
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  Speaker 1: You can call too, the number's right there on the
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  Speaker 1: bottom of your screen.
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  Speaker 1: We've also got a QR code and uh if you
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  Speaker 1: scan that, it'll take you to the pastor's perspective page
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  Speaker 1: at Kwave.com, where you can submit your question online. Not
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  Speaker 1: as much fun as talking to you, but we understand
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  Speaker 1: you may not be able to call in right now,
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  Speaker 1: so that's why we have those.
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  Speaker 1: Other ways available that you can get your question to us.
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  Speaker 1: But if you can call today, 888-564-6173 is our number.
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  Speaker 1: In answering your questions today, we've got Pastors Brian Broderson
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  Speaker 1: and Phil Metzger. How are you guys doing?
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  Speaker 2: Doing great.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Doing well. Doing well. Had a, had a really
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  Speaker 1: nice day at the beach with my two youngest grandkids,
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  Speaker 1: so that was just an absolute blast.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, here we are at 6:01.
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  Speaker 1: Eastern time. That's right.
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  Speaker 1: 601 on the east coast, 301 on the west coast,
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  Speaker 1: and uh we are ready to answer your questions. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: let's go right to the phones, right away. Maybe we'll
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  Speaker 1: answer some of the questions that were submitted online a
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  Speaker 1: little bit later, but right now we're gonna start with
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  Speaker 1: Jody in Buena Park, listening to K Wave 107.9. Hey there, Jody,
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  Speaker 1: what's your question?
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  Speaker 2: OK, hi, um, good morning, good afternoon. I listen to
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  Speaker 2: you guys all the time. Um, I listen in the
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  Speaker 2: morning to get my head straight. There was something this
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  Speaker 2: morning they were talking about in Genesis about.
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  Speaker 2: Everything that you've gone through is to get you to
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  Speaker 2: where you're supposed to, that the Lord wants you to
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  Speaker 2: be now. So what was your purpose? What was your,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's like my passion is working with developmentally disabled, uh,
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  Speaker 2: kids and now I work with adults.
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  Speaker 2: But some of the things I've gone through, um,
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  Speaker 2: Um, being molested.
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  Speaker 2: And etc. etc. I don't know how I'm supposed to
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  Speaker 2: wrap my head around how was going through that helped
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  Speaker 2: me to
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  Speaker 1: where the Lord wants me to be today.
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  Speaker 1: Um, I found a new church.
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  Speaker 2: My son and I are going, and we love it.
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  Speaker 2: They're in scripture all the time, so I'm trying to.
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  Speaker 2: To become a better Christian.
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  Speaker 1: All right, guys, how would you answer that?
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  Speaker 1: Brian, you wanna go first?
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  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, sure. Well, I, I think that, you know, I,
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  Speaker 1: I think sometimes.
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  Speaker 1: Pastors, ah, myself included, ah, you know, we'll, we'll say
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  Speaker 1: things and, and they sound right. They sound good.
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  Speaker 1: But then you stop and think about it, you think about,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not quite sure that that is actually
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  Speaker 1: the case, so, so I would not agree that everything
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  Speaker 1: that's happened in your past.
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  Speaker 1: Um, is, you know, to bring you to where you
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  Speaker 1: are now, um, I wouldn't say now, I would say
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  Speaker 1: that there's still, uh, you know, there's still a future,
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  Speaker 1: and who knows, but what in your future you might
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  Speaker 1: see things develop where you do look back and say, OK, wow,
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  Speaker 1: I can, I can see how this, um,
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  Speaker 1: You know, in some ways, maybe it equipped me to
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  Speaker 1: deal with something, or maybe it equipped me to help somebody. Um, I,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think we should look back at.
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  Speaker 1: Like really horrible things that have happened in our lives
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  Speaker 1: and say, oh, I'm sure that there's some really good
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  Speaker 1: thing that God intended with that, um, I think that's
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  Speaker 1: a mistake. I think that when we look at our lives,
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  Speaker 1: the big, the big picture is that all things work
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  Speaker 1: together for good to those who love God, and when
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  Speaker 1: it is all said and done, when, you know, time
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  Speaker 1: has passed and we are in eternity with the Lord.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, we will realize that, that, even though some really
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  Speaker 1: bad things happened, um, God worked everything out. But, but
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  Speaker 1: I do think it is a mistake to try to, um,
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  Speaker 1: you know, take a, an event in our lives, especially
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  Speaker 1: a bad event like, like what you just mentioned, and
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  Speaker 1: then try to see how, OK, so this is gonna somehow,
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  Speaker 1: You know, benefit me later, um, maybe not. Maybe it's
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  Speaker 1: just going to be one of those things that you
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  Speaker 1: just thank God that he's, uh, you know, healing you
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  Speaker 1: from the, the scars of that, and ultimately he, he
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  Speaker 1: will heal you. But one last thing, I, I do
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  Speaker 1: think though there is the place where.
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  Speaker 1: Uh, Paul says it in his 2nd letter to the Corinthians.
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  Speaker 1: He talks about the God of the Father of mercies
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  Speaker 1: and the God of all comfort who comforts us in
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  Speaker 1: all of our affliction that we might be able to
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  Speaker 1: comfort others as well.
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  Speaker 1: And so I do think there is that place where
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  Speaker 1: when we've gone through various forms of suffering, injustice, things
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  Speaker 1: like that, um, the one thing I think we can.
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  Speaker 1: Count on is that God will use it to help others, um,
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  Speaker 1: at some time down the road in our lives. I
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  Speaker 1: know some of the things I've been through that, that's
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  Speaker 1: exactly what's happened, um, I've been able to comfort people
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  Speaker 1: or I've been able to encourage them. I've been able
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  Speaker 1: to say, hey, guess what? I was actually at the
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  Speaker 1: same place you are and God brought me through it, so.
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  Speaker 1: Phil Metzger.
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  Speaker 2: OK.
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  Speaker 2: I, I love that. It was there, did, did that
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  Speaker 2: make sense to you? Did that, did that help at all?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, actually, it,
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  Speaker 1: it did.
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  Speaker 2: It's just, I guess I needed to hear it from
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  Speaker 2: somebody else's perspective. Um, I am in the caring field. I've,
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  Speaker 2: I have, I have had, I was able to help
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  Speaker 2: others that have been in the situation I have, um,
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  Speaker 2: And I'm, I've been able to forgive with the Lord's help, um.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I, I don't accept what happened to me,
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  Speaker 2: but
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  Speaker 2: It's, it's, yeah, I, I get it. Yeah, and that's,
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  Speaker 2: and that's good with the way you're saying that because
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  Speaker 2: you don't have to accept it. It was wrong, but
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  Speaker 2: what happened was wrong, and it'll never be right. God,
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  Speaker 2: God using the, the terrible things even of our lives
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  Speaker 2: is just His grace and His um.
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  Speaker 2: You know, but it's never, that never, and I think
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  Speaker 2: sometimes and Brian, you made the point earlier, like sometimes
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  Speaker 2: we say stuff as pastors and then we like, you
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  Speaker 2: don't round out your own like thought process, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and some of what we say or, or do, and
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  Speaker 2: I think that this is one of those where we
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  Speaker 2: can give the, like, the Bible is so clear, like
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  Speaker 2: God does work all things together for good to those
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  Speaker 2: who love God and are called according to His purposes,
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  Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean that everything is good.
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  Speaker 2: And that everything that's happened is good. And so we
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  Speaker 2: have to remind ourselves that, and it's good for us
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  Speaker 2: to be reminded to remind you that, that not everything
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  Speaker 2: was good. You don't have to accept it, but praise
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  Speaker 2: the Lord that He is still moving you in the
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  Speaker 2: direction of seeking Him and going after Him. And even
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  Speaker 2: don't think about the things that have happened to you
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  Speaker 2: as
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  Speaker 2: I get to help other people only. That's, that's even
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  Speaker 2: not why God didn't do that, so you would help
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  Speaker 2: other people. It's just a beautiful byproduct of His sovereign grace,
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  Speaker 2: but that's not why that happened to you. That is,
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  Speaker 2: it's a terrible result of the sinful world that we
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  Speaker 2: live in, that bad things have happened. And, but even then,
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  Speaker 2: even then, God is faithful.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Jody.
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  Speaker 1: Yes,
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  Speaker 2: all
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  Speaker 1: the
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  Speaker 2: time. Love you guys.
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  Speaker 1: All right, thanks for calling today on somebody else's perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wait, that's what Jody called it, but uh it's
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  Speaker 1: called Pastor's perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. Gonna be here
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  Speaker 1: till 4 o'clock. So if you've got a question for
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  Speaker 1: Brian and Phil, call in 888-564-6173. Here's Betty in Garden Grove.
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  Speaker 1: What did you want to ask, Betty?
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  Speaker 2: Uh, yes, um, so the question is, how can somebody
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  Speaker 2: believe in God if they are willing or open to believe,
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  Speaker 2: but they feel like there is no response from God
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  Speaker 2: in prayer, or they feel like when they're praying, nobody's
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  Speaker 2: really there. This is regarding a young person who has not, like,
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  Speaker 2: experienced other faiths or anything like that, but
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  Speaker 1: somebody who is growing up in a Christian household but
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  Speaker 1: is having a hard time believing.
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  Speaker 1: Hm, Phil, we'll start with you. What do you say
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  Speaker 1: to Betty?
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  Speaker 2: I think sometimes our kids that grew up in Christian households,
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  Speaker 2: it is hard. They, they've just been around it. I'm,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not making excuses or saying that they have it
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  Speaker 2: harder than anybody else, but I, I certainly think that it, it,
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  Speaker 2: there is a
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  Speaker 2: There's a reality to like, you grow up, you hear
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  Speaker 2: the stories, you, you've seen, you know.
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  Speaker 2: You, you watch the, the cartoons and you've seen the
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  Speaker 2: felt boards if you're older, of Jonah and Daniel, and
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  Speaker 2: then you're like, I look at my life and it's like,
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  Speaker 2: I'm getting nothing, you know, and, and, and, and, and
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  Speaker 2: that is a, that's a real thing right there. You know, the, the,
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  Speaker 2: the thing I would encourage to anybody, young or old,
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  Speaker 2: that's in that kind of situation, especially a young person,
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  Speaker 2: is when you feel like, oh man, God isn't answering
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  Speaker 2: me or God isn't speaking to me, and I, I
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  Speaker 2: don't want this to come across like a cliche because
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, I not only mean it, but it's
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  Speaker 2: actually true according to God.
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  Speaker 2: God is speaking to us and he uses his word
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  Speaker 2: as a predominant method of speaking to people today. Don't
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  Speaker 2: neglect the idea that you have the opportunity to pick
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  Speaker 2: up the book or audio as well, and you get
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  Speaker 2: to hear the living word of God. And if you're
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  Speaker 2: willing to receive it for that, God is speaking to you. Um,
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  Speaker 2: as it relates to prayer, I totally get it. I
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  Speaker 2: get that feeling.
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  Speaker 2: Um, but I, I, I do believe, and the Bible
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  Speaker 2: backs this up, that those who earnestly seek Him, they
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  Speaker 2: will find Him. He will reveal Himself. And so, I'm
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  Speaker 2: encouraging every young person who feels like maybe they grew
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  Speaker 2: up in church and they want to deconstruct or they're,
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  Speaker 2: they're bummed out that they don't have a Jonah story
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  Speaker 2: or a Noah story, or, uh, you know, there's only
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  Speaker 2: two of those. So, uh, you know, they don't have
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  Speaker 2: those great, great stories like other people get to have
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  Speaker 2: God still loves you, He is for you.
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  Speaker 2: Um, it's time to press in and go after him,
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  Speaker 2: and then, and then, and let him prove himself to
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  Speaker 2: you because I believe that he will.
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  Speaker 1: I know, I wish I had a story of being
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  Speaker 1: swallowed by a big fish, but I don't, so I
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  Speaker 1: just tell people my story. Brian, what do you tell, uh, Betty?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think what Phil said is great, and I,
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  Speaker 1: there's not really much to add to it. Um, I,
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  Speaker 1: I think just, you know, simply to remember.
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  Speaker 1: Um, that
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  Speaker 1: Um, we, you know, Paul puts it in these terms,
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  Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 5:7, we walk by faith and not by sight,
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  Speaker 1: and sight is a sense, so we're talking, we can,
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  Speaker 1: we can extend it beyond sight. We can extend it
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  Speaker 1: to feeling, and I think that, um, like Phil said,
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  Speaker 1: when you open the Bible, this is God's word. So God,
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  Speaker 1: just read it. God is speaking.
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  Speaker 1: And you will find that as you consistently do that
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  Speaker 1: or as you persist in it, that suddenly those words
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  Speaker 1: that maybe were written thousands of years ago in a
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  Speaker 1: completely different context, suddenly those words leap off the page,
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  Speaker 1: and you know that you know that these words are
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  Speaker 1: for me, and I've had that experience many, many times.
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  Speaker 1: And so there is something to the discipline of just staying.
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  Speaker 1: In the Bible, even through the dry seasons, even through
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  Speaker 1: the times when God seems far away, we persevere, and that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I use the word seasons, and I, I
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  Speaker 1: like that word because, you know, seasons vary and circumstances
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  Speaker 1: and seasons vary.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm, I'm here in the Southeast, and it has been, uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, summer was brutally hot and humid, and now.
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  Speaker 1: Autumn is upon us, and it's, there's a, the air
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  Speaker 1: is crisp and it's nice and there's a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of a breeze and it's like, OK, wow, this is
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  Speaker 1: a different season. That's for you guys out there, we
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  Speaker 1: don't have that here in California, just so you, just
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  Speaker 1: you know. No, still, I know you don't, that's um,
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  Speaker 1: so you know, but spiritually, I think, I think it's
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  Speaker 1: a good.
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  Speaker 1: Way to kind of look at our lives spiritually, we
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  Speaker 1: go through seasons, just like there's 4 seasons in our
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  Speaker 1: experience in the world, for most people except Californians, um,
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  Speaker 1: Uh, we have those same kinds of things in, in
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  Speaker 1: our spiritual lives. Sometimes it's like, man.
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  Speaker 1: You know, the fruit is just falling off the tree.
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  Speaker 1: Everything is amazing. Everything is lush. Everything is just, oh man,
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  Speaker 1: I just
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  Speaker 1: You know, God seems so close.
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  Speaker 1: And he seems to be working so beautifully.
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  Speaker 1: And then you hit.
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  Speaker 1: The fall
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  Speaker 1: And then you hit the dead of winter.
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  Speaker 1: And it's like, what in the world happened?
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  Speaker 1: Uh, but you know what?
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  Speaker 1: You still are in your Christian life, and this is
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  Speaker 1: just part of it. It's a season.
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  Speaker 1: Betty, does this help you?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you very much. I will share this with
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  Speaker 2: my child and listen to it again if we need
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to hear it, you know, um, on the, on the archives.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Betty.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for calling in, and if he
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  Speaker 1: still has questions after this, have him call in. We'd
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  Speaker 1: love to speak with him here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: is the number to call. Let's read at least one
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: question that was submitted online through the pastor's perspective page
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  Speaker 1: at Kwave.com. This one is from Lauren and San Bernardino,
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  Speaker 1: who asks, why do a lot of Christians feel the
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  Speaker 1: need to rebuke the devil constantly?
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  Speaker 1: I don't believe in talking to the devil or demons directly.
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  Speaker 1: I know they exist, but I don't speak at them.
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  Speaker 1: I always ask the Lord to rebuke, thwart, and dismantle
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  Speaker 1: the plans of Satan, the enemy, the devourer. Do Christians
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  Speaker 1: need to be rebuking the devil all the time, Brian,
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  Speaker 1: what do you tell Lauren?
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  Speaker 1: Um, I tell Lauren that Phil knows the answer to
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  Speaker 1: this question.
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  Speaker 1: And he's going to tell her.
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  Speaker 2: Let's hear it, Phil. That's like that. That was like
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: the most unsubtle, um, redirect in all of pastor's perspective.
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  Speaker 2: I loved it. It was great. I, um,
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  Speaker 1: I answered the last question, you know, come on. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: that's
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: true. That's true. It's gotta go back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: he's back and
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  Speaker 1: forth,
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  Speaker 2: yeah. He's, he, he's all about fairness. Equity, equity is
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  Speaker 2: Brian's middle name here. Um, uh, the Bible tells us
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  Speaker 2: to resist the devil. The Bible doesn't tell us to
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  Speaker 2: rebuke the devil. The Bible tells us that.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, the, the angel said the Lord rebuke you to
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  Speaker 2: the devil. So we see the Lord rebuking the devil
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  Speaker 2: and an angel calling on the Lord to rebuke the devil.
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  Speaker 2: We don't see, um, humans needing to rebuke the devil. So,
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  Speaker 2: so the simple answer is no, you don't got to
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  Speaker 2: rebuke the devil, um, you gotta resist the devil, and, uh,
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  Speaker 2: that's what James tells us to do. Why do some
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  Speaker 2: people use that language? It's, it's just kind of a
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  Speaker 2: part of like the vocabulary for some traditions. It's not.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, uh, it, well, I say it's unnecessary to do
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  Speaker 2: that in a very technical sense, for some people, it's
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: just a part of the language that they use, it's
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  Speaker 2: the way that they pray and the way they interact and, um,
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  Speaker 2: to do that is not wrong, uh, but the Bible
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  Speaker 2: does not tell us that we need to invest our
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  Speaker 2: prayer times. We don't need to be speaking to the devil,
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  Speaker 2: we are talking to the Lord in prayer. When Jesus
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: told us to pray, he said, our Father who art
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  Speaker 2: in heaven, not
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  Speaker 2: The enemy. So we're resisting the devil, praying to the Father,
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  Speaker 2: and inviting the Lord to rebuke the devil's, uh, influence
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  Speaker 2: and power and um such in our lives. But for
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  Speaker 2: those that are doing that, I, we don't, it's, it's
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  Speaker 2: just a part of like kind of some Christian tradition.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Brian, your turn.
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  Speaker 1: Now it's your turn.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Brian Perez is mad at you right now. I could
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: hear it right there. I could hear it in that voice.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: No,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: no, no, never. I don't get angry. Never. No, especially
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: at me.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: No, definitely
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Brian. Brian, Brian is my friend. Um, yeah, that's great,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: and I think I, I was just thinking as you
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: were saying it, Phil, I think the only place.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The, the only place in the New Testament, I think,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: where there is even that kind of language is Jesus, ah,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: saying to Peter, get behind me, Satan. And so Jesus
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: is talking to his disciple Peter, but he's, he's sensing
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that Peter's coming under the sway of the devil because
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of what he's suggesting is, you know, the devil's idea
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: or philosophy.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And then I think the other passage I'm thinking of
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: is the passage in Zechariah where the angel of the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Lord rebukes the devil, um, who is pronouncing condemnation over
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Joshua the high priest. The Lord rebuke you, and, um,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: but like you mentioned, Phil, uh, the, uh, you know, Jude,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: is it Jude? Yeah, Jude, Jude tells us that even.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Even Michael the archangel, who is much greater in power
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: than we are, he didn't bring a railing accusation against
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the devil, he just simply said the Lord rebuke you.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: And so, I, I mean, you know, we have both
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: seen those times, uh, you're absolutely right, there, it's kind
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of a cultural thing amongst some Christians where your vocabulary
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and your perspective.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Ah, you know, it's not bad or sinful, it's it,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: but it maybe is not totally accurate, um, according to
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the biblical picture, but then there are times, you know, where,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: where people even go overboard and you, they go on
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: a rant against the devil, you know, and they're, they're
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: up on stage and they're, you know, wiping their brow
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: with their handkerchief, and they're, they're cursing the devil and
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: all of this kind of stuff. I would say,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Don't do that. You you, you don't wanna do that. That's,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: that's not gonna, it's not gonna help. It's more of
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a show than it is, it, it, there's any kind
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: of reality to it, so.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Lauren, thank you for sending your question online, making a
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: note here to send you an email that we read
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: it today in case you missed it if you're not
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: listening live right now. Thanks so much for sending it
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: in though on the pastor's perspective page.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Is
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: what you
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: do.com? What? What, what
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: is that what you do when they, when you, when
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: we answer a question, you email them that we answer
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: their question? Yeah,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: yeah, I let them know because I assume that they,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't in the same way that they
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: can't call in when we're live. Maybe they can't even
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: listen when we're live, so I just let them know
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You know, just a quick short little email. If it's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: not me, it's someone else on staff who, who lets
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: everyone know that way they, that way they know that's
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that's really cool that we're not, not ignoring them or anything.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Lauren, thanks so much for sending in your question. 888-564-6173.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Jeff in Riverside, you're next on Pastor's Perspective. Hi.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon. How are you? Doing well. How are you?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Uh, we're hanging in there.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: What's going on today? We had to put, we had
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: to put one of our animals down, um, technically it's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: my wife's cat, and I know I shouldn't be so
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: emotional about it, but.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: We've had him for 19 years and he's lost half
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: his body weight. He's got cancer. He's not able to
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: eat the way he normally would, so that's why everything
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: is down and uh.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: just
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: wonder
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: sometimes
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: when God
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: gives
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: us
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: such
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a precious
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: gift
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: like a
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: pet,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: um.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Why it hurts so bad.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Because it's an animal, it's not a child, it's not
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: a human being, it's an animal.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: That's a great question,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Jeff.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Phil, what do you tell him?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, first of all, that's, it is, it's terrible.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, we, we were made to love, and as
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: loving beings like made in the image of God, we
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: were made for relationship, and because we were made for
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a relationship, the things that are taken away from us
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: matter to us. So, no, you don't have to feel
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: silly for being sad about losing a cat, so.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: It's a living being and you guys have had that
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: pet around a long time, that's a long life, and
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: um now it's not there, of course you're sad, totally normal,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't, no, no need to apologize for that. Uh, on,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, you're just reminded that like life
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is so precious, and that includes all life, right? When
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: we talk about like, when we talk about as Christians
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: that we value life, we should be like so like
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: consistently saying all life matters, and that means
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: That means even our pets and, and animals and like
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: life matters. God created life and life matters, and because
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: life matters, we, and we're made to be loving beings,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: we care about what is around us, and it's sad
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: when it's gone. So sorry for your loss because it, it's,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it stinks to lose a pet. And um, yeah, Brian,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: what do you, what do you say about that?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I agree, and uh actually yesterday on the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: program uh with Eric, uh, we talked about, you know,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: somebody asked, I think if they're
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You know, if their dog was gonna be with them
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: in heaven, and you know, so we talked a little
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: bit about um the theology of that type of a thing,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: but we pointed out that there's definitely in the millennial kingdom,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: there are, uh there's animal life, we read about uh
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the lion and the lamb and the.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Um, the wolf and the sheep, you know, the bear
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and a young child leading them and all of those
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: kinds of beautiful pictures of harmony restored between the animal
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: kingdom and, and humans. Um, so, but like you said,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: You know, you, these are living creatures, they're not human,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: but
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: They're almost human sometimes and we get attached to them
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and we love them. It's, it's crazy, isn't it? But
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: like you said, Phil, God, God created us in His image.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: God is love and He created us to love. So yeah,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: so there's nothing the matter with feeling sad, and I
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: don't think there's anything the matter with hoping that there
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: is in the future that somehow, you know, God restores that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Why not? Why, why wouldn't he restore it?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Um, if we need it, then I'm sure he'll do it. So, um, my,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: my daughter had a cat that I got kind of
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: attached to and a funny name, baby kitty, just because
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: she could never think of anything creative. We remember hearing
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: about baby kitty. Baby kitty, yeah, and then baby kitty
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: just one day disappeared and you know, I just said
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: would just walk around the neighborhood, drive around hoping.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I could find baby kitty, but you know, we never did.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: It was a sad, it was a sad moment, and
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of dogs throughout my life and,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you know, seeing them, you know, have to be put
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: down or seeing them get hit by a car or
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you know something horrible like that. And yeah, it's, it's brutal.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: It can be tough.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Jeff, thanks so much for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and I will go to Jay in Boston, Massachusetts. Hi there, Jay.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Uh, hello there. Hello.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: What did you want to ask? Yeah, this is, yeah,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be a call, I think that's gonna
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: be much.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Different than other colors, and I've never listened to the show.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I normally listen to other shows that I would say
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: are
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: In some way the opposite of this one, how'd you
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: find out about us?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Mhm. How did you find out about the show, the show,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: just Google, honestly, um.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I, I, you, you guys do this on, uh, you
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: guys just don't put this on YouTube, do you, because
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I don't, we do, we're live streaming right now. OK, well,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it's whatever, um.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I grew up non-denominational Christian, and I would say, I
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: would say I'm technically would say I am, but there
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: are lots of things that for the past 7 years
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: or so, um, I've become fairly disillusioned by the, um,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: glaringly atrocious items in the Bible. I would say, not
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: just things that occur, um,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Outside of God's will, but for God's will, um, various passages.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, you just, I, from the previous caller just
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: talked about how, quote, all life is precious, and I
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: would point to many parts of the Bible where indeed
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: life was almost made as a tool for glory.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Like, can you give an example?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Um, the first, the killing of the firstborn of Egypt,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the campaigns of Canaan, uh, the list is very long. OK, Brian,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you want to start on this one? And it's almost
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: break time, so we will carry this over into the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: second half of the show, but Brian, you want to
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: go first?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would ask a question. First of all,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: is
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: You know, do you believe that there is evil?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I believe people do things that disrespect human dignity, so
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: in that case, yes.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And then what, what should be done about that?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Do we just
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Uh, let it slide. It should be, or is there
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a place for justice for people doing the evil, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of times it should be evil that's actually harmful.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So a lot of things in the Bible were considered,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: considered evil that we would see as more or less
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: almost like.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Trivial
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: There were a lot of give me, give me an example.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Give me an example of that. What's a trivial thing
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that the Bible
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, considers to be evil.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Like a, like a sin or evil, or are those
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: interchangeable here? Well, I think they're, I mean, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: they're not exactly interchangeable, but I think they're connected for sure.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but, but evil would be more like um.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: You know, something that is obviously detrimental to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Everything, including the person committing the the evil.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: But more so on the, on the one that is,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you know, being, being sinned against.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Like working on the Sabbath.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: OK, we're, yeah, OK, OK, yeah, good, OK, yeah, and,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and I just asked that question because I think, you know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: what you're looking at in the Old Testament, um, first
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: of all, God says that he takes no pleasure in
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the death of the wicked, so it's not like God's
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: delights in, um, judging people, but he does judge people,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and a violation of the Sabbath was.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Um, it was kind of like, just to put it bluntly,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: it was kind of like a middle finger to God.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, hey God, F you. I don't
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: care what you say about anything. I'm gonna do my
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: own thing. And you know, God's just not going to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: let his creatures do those kinds of things, especially the
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: creatures that are in covenant with him, like, OK, we're gonna,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: we're gonna push pause there, Pastor Brian, sorry, we gotta
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be right back in a few
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: minutes here on Pastor's perspective.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: number to call. We're speaking with Jay in Boston, Massachusetts
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: right now, and, uh, Pastor Brian Broderson was in the
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: middle of answering the question and then we had to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: take that break at the bottom of the hour. But, uh,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: go ahead, Brian, continue where you left off.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so anything, anyway, ah, Jay, I was, I was
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: just saying I think, you know, the idea that somehow, um,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: God just flippantly takes people's lives, I, I think is
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: a mistaken view, and I think, um, you know, you
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: mentioned the, um, the Canaanites who were a vicious, vicious, evil,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: evil people. Ah, people forget that the Israelites were a
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: band of slaves who had spent 400 years in Egypt.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Ah, so they were definitely not some triumphant army that
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: was going to march into Canaan and mow these poor
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: people down. They were the underdog, to say the least, and, um,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the Canaanites would completely have obliterated them, ah, were it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: not the fact that God was judging the Canaanites and
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: he was using the Israelites to do it. So, um,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, we have to ultimately look at
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the lens.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of all of these things through the person of Jesus
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and the fact that he would come and he would
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: die a brutal, brutal death on a cross. Why did
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: he die a brutal death on a cross? Because he
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: was paying for sins, and sins are real things. They're
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: destructive to the sinner and to those that they sin against,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and they are crimes against God, and they must be
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: paid for just like crimes against society have to be
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: paid for today.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Through the justice system, so God is a just God,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: but He's also a God of love, obviously that's why
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Jesus dies and bears the punishment for those who deserve
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it and for all of those who will, you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: turn to Him and put their trust in Him and
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: seek His forgiveness. He freely gives that to anybody and everybody, so.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, you know, maybe look back on the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Old Testament through the, the lens of the New Testament
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and the cross and see what was really happening.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: What do you think of that, Jay?
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Um, there were a lot of parts I wanted to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: jump in on. Um, do you believe the idea of
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: just unrestricted forms of justice, no matter what? I mean,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: like the Supreme Being can.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned how the the Canaanites are wicked, wicked people.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Would this be including the quote, uh, infants and nursing children?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: They were evil as well.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Well, um, infants and nursing children become adults, or, you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: they grow, they are brought up in a culture. Are
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: you a professor yourself or?
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Am I what?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Are you a pro-life pastor?
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Um, am I a pro-life pastor? Well, I, I've never
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: identified myself as a pro-life pastor, but I do pro-life. I, I,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I do believe that we should protect, uh, innocent life,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: and it sounded like the answer you were, it sounded
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like you were starting to give sounded like the type
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: of argument you would maybe go against if other people
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: had the idea that.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Um, somehow ending a child before they become an adult,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: because you've, they, he had therefore seemed to eventually grow
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: up to be wicked, is a good idea.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Mhm. Well, I think God.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: You know, we, we could look around the world today.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: We don't even have to look very far to find
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: cultures where children
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Are raised to hate and to ultimately, uh, seek to
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: eliminate their enemies. Children are raised to, to do that,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: that's that's how they're brought up, and um I think that,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: You know, God, now we're talking about thousands of years ago,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: so things have progressed. Jesus has come. Things have changed.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: God's no longer, you know, dealing with the world the
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: way he once was dealing with the world because of
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the cross, but He will deal with the world once
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: again in a severe way after 2000 years of extending
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: grace to humanity. He will eventually.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Withdraw that offer and bring about a judgment, so I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: know that that's a hard pill to swallow for a
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: lot of people and um apparently for you too.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: But, you know what, where else are you gonna go?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: What's your, what's your alternative? Um, what, what do you
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: think is, where, where, where do you find a, a
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: more just.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Perspective.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I, I, I can't think of one.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Well, it's, it's certainly not one where you
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: mass slaughter several cities.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I think mass slaughter of several cities. I think
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: you're misinterpreting what the text is saying. This is war.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: This is a war. So in wars, things happen, right?
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Just like we have wars happening right now, and things
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: happen that are unintended, but things do happen. Innocent people die.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: This is part of history. This is part of war, um,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: and you know, we have the statements in scripture where
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: God commands, you know, the, the Canaanites to be wiped out.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: But we find that the Canaanites were not wiped out
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and that God had mercy on some of the Canaanites.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: The Gibeonites, for example, were the Canaanites, and they came
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to Joshua and they fooled Joshua into thinking that they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: were another group of people. Joshua made a covenant with them.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: God made Joshua honor that covenant. So even though the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Gibeonites were destined for judgment, they, they weren't judged, and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: you find several examples in those stories within the Old Testament.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Where you might even read that, you know, that the Amalekites,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: for example, were, you know, obliterated, but then the Amalekites reappear,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: so obviously they weren't obliterated.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Some people have seen this as a Near Eastern war rhetoric.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: So this is just a language that was used, like
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: we might say in a situation today, like, oh, they
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: were completely obliterated, they were totally wiped out, oh, we
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: slaughtered them. Well, we didn't really, but that's just language
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: that we use. So some have suggested that maybe that
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: kind of language is what's going on there, but I'm
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: gonna pass the baton to my friend Phil, who's sitting there, um,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and I know he's got.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: no, I, I don't think I do. I'm glad you,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you called in, Jay. It's great, it's great
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: that you called in, I want to have the conversation, but,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: you know, keep in mind, I think we do need
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: to lean in, Brian, to that idea that a lot
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: of the language of the Old Testament, there's a, it
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: is a war rhetoric. We use the same language today,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: but nobody takes us, nobody takes it literal.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And then now when we're gonna apply that, that very
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: strict rigid perspective that says, oh, they were told to
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: wipe out everybody, that means God, we're gonna apply that
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: into the language of who God is, the nature of
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: God based on that.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: When I, when we all say things of that nature
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: all the time, we all use hyperbole, we all, you know,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: and I just did it on purpose. I was gonna say, yeah,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: on purpose. We all say that. We never said it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: This is language that we're all using pretty consistently, and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: the result of that is that, but we don't, we
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: know the context and we understand the context, and I think, Jay, you,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think the, the issues that you're
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: bringing are great and they're valid, but I would, I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: think what we both kind of would want to say
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: is like.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: You know, then, then you look at the cross, right?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: You come to the New Testament and you say, God
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: became a human to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Suffer and die for the sins of the world so
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: that no one would ever have to be eternally separated
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: from God again. So injustice isn't just something that humanity
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: has experienced, it's something that the divine has experienced. He
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: placed himself under suffering and injustice and, and evil and pain,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: and so.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: To assume that God is, is uncaring or unthoughtful to injustice, um,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: would be a, would be a false narrative. It would
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: be an untrue thing. But again, I, I think we
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: have to agree that like maybe we're coming at this
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: from two different angles and maybe we're not gonna come
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: to agreement on those angles right now. I don't know though, Jay,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: what do you, what do you feel about this, bud?
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Uh, OK, um, there were a whole lot of things
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that you said that I wanted to jump in, but
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I couldn't because I think I was muted. Um, I
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: only do that, Jay, and I do that to everybody,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: so don't think I'm purposely muting you because if I
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: didn't use my handy dandy mute button, people would be
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: talking all over themselves all the time. So that's the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: only reason I, I mute.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: OK, yeah, I, I get that cause I, I watched
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: another show where, um, having cross like unrestricted mute cross
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: talk can be quite unproductive, um, but
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: There were a whole lot of things that you said
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that I just, I, I have been in no agreement whatsoever.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You talk about how we use these hyperbole today, um,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: in modern war, um, if someone was to say, um, yes,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: casual collateral damage happens like in the case of World
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: War II, World War 1, people were bombed.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: There was never executive orders like Franklin Delano like World
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: War II, for instance. There was not an order by
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Franklin Delano Roosevelt to kill nursing infants and children of
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: the Germans.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: That was not something that was present in World War
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: II or in any modern context.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Wanna comment on that,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Phil? I just say, Jay, that again, um, and I
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: think we're, we're, we're probably gonna just have to agree
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: to disagree on some of this stuff. If we're gonna
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: start quoting like current and modern like military, like lingo,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that wasn't, that, that's not the point that we were
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: trying to make that like, hey, our military does the
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: same thing, but I would say our politicians do that
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Our citizens do that stuff all the time. That's the point.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: It's not that we're saying that like it happens, it
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: happens all the time. And whether you want to make
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: this a modern connection, don't do that. We're talking about
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: war rhetoric of the ancient.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Languages of the ancient world. We're not saying that all
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: all militaries of all times do that. We're saying this
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: is very, this was very common practice among ancient tribes
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: and how they spoke and how they wrote the very
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: few uh artifacts we have of writing. This is a
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: very
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Common thing in several languages. So this isn't about whether
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: FDR or Vietnam or World War II. This is more
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: about how the ancients used to speak about war. So
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: yeah, there we go. But, but I, I would just
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: say to Jay, and then obviously we have to move on,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: but um you know, two things I would say you
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: probably
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I, I don't know, I'm just guessing, you, you might
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: not believe in the flood, you might not believe in Noah,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the ark, you know, those things, um, I do, you know,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: the Bible records that this did indeed happen, and the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Bible records that every single human with the exception of
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the family of Noah was destroyed, ah, at God's command.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: God's the one who brought the flood. So yeah, God,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: God destroyed the whole world.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And when it was time for Canaan to be judged
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: after 400 years of God extending opportunity for them to repent,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: according to Genesis 15.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Israel is to the Canaanites what the flood was to
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the antediluvian world, God's judgment, and yes, God did judge
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: all of them. He judged children, infants, all of those things. That's,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: that's a reality. Whatever the, you know, war rhetoric is, there,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: there are certain places where you're going to just have
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: to face that, yeah, this is what happened.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But I think what I would encourage you to do
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: is ask yourself this question, are you more compassionate and
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: righteous than God? Uh, I mean, you know, God.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: God, like Phil said, and, and you know, because you
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: grew up in church, God becomes a human and he dies. He, he's,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: he's executed. He's betrayed, he's all of those things. This is,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: this is God allows this to happen to Himself.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: So, uh, you know, I, I think you have to
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: factor that in, but the last thing I would say,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: because we could just talk about this stuff all day
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: long and actually never get anywhere, I would just remind
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you of this one thing Jesus claimed to be.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: The eternal Son of God, he claimed to come from
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: the Father, to die for the sins of the world,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: that he would rise from the dead, that he would ascend,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: and that he would come back, and ultimately he would,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: he would rule and reign. So what I would leave
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you with is you've got to answer this one question
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Was Jesus who he said he was or not? If
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: he was, then all the other things will at some
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: point just, they'll, they'll all fit together.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: And if he wasn't, then, you know, we're wasting our
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: time with this radio program. You're wasting your time even
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: thinking about this stuff, um, but Jesus is too significant
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: a human to dismiss and say, well, Jesus was just
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: wrong about this. Um, the, the British historian Tom Holland
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: just recently in a, um, in a conversation said, and, and,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: you know, Tom is kind of ambivalent about his own, he,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: he wasn't a Christian.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: But he has moved closer to that, but he said
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: it is arguable that Jesus Christ is the most influential
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: human in all of history.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: So how do you become the most influential human in
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: all of history and not be who you claim to be? I,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I just don't think you could, so, so anyway, ah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: there's a great book if you wanted to take the
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: time to read it, talk about some of these things,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: a book by John Lennox, uh, Oxford professor, ah, called
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Gunning for God. Some of this stuff is a trust
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: in there. And then there's another great book by a
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: guy named Paul Copan.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, Is God a moral monster? That's the question that's
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: addressed in the book and that's the title of the book. So,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: you know, if you really want an answer, then maybe
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: dig in and see. But again, I would take it
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: back to Jesus. Who is Jesus? That's the real question.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Jay, we are so glad that you found us. We
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: welcome your phone call again some other time, and in
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: the meantime, you can go check our Facebook and YouTube, Spotify,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. We have years' worth of archives that uh
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: you can go back and watch or listen. But thank
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: you so much for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: 888-564-6173. Here's David in
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Lakewood. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, David.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: You bet. Um, yeah, so my question is about, um.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Biblical council.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Regarding
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say mental health.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, pharmaceutical drugs.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Or even, you know, self-medicating with something like, uh, like marijuana.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: What do you say, Phil?
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Um,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, I could just share some of
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: my own, not my own personal experiences, uh, but just
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: with family and all that, uh, when you, when you,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: when you talk about mental health, the, the, the, the
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: key phrase I wanna, uh catch on to is that self-medicating.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's always a bad idea because we're not doctors,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: so you're not self-medicating, we're usually indulging. It's not, it's not,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: it's not helping. And I remember a, a, a particular
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: doctor helping us, helping a family member who was self-medicating
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: with marijuana for depression.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: And, and this doctor saying, hey, I'm in no judgment
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: at all. I understand. The problem is, is that as
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: we're trying to help you with like actual medication, you
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: are working against us by doing this. It's actually counterbalancing
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: everything we're trying to do, even though in a moment
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: it might be helping you, and I'm not, he said,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I've got no moral judgment on this, just simply to
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: say you're actually working against us.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: So, when we as Christians think, oh, is this OK
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: for self-medicating, I would say like, what we need to
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: do is go talk to professionals to get help and
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: to get support. We call out to the Lord and
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: ask for help and we utilize the great opportunities and
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: blessings that God's brought into our lives. And so when
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: we talk about like medical marijuana for mental health, I,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I would say it's, it's important to, to check in
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: with a doctor.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Um, on the other hand, as well, like I know,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: like people with Parkinson's and other kind of ailments, they're
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: prescribing medical marijuana quite frequently. I would say the same thing, man,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: you gotta speak to a medical professional about this stuff.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: As it's, as it pertains to, it's legal, it is,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: if it's, if it has advantage for helping, um, then
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: you talk to a medical professional, self-medicating.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: is just not a great idea, not, not as a,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not even saying that as a Christian perspective, but just,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: it might be counteracting the very thing that you're trying
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: to accomplish, it might be working against you. Get medical advice,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: let them help you with that stuff.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: What do you think, David?
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I think I agree as far as the self-medication,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: but
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Would
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: it be wrong to
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: say,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: but
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I believe it helps.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And speaking
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: with
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: medical
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: professionals,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: They can't really speak
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: so
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: much
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: regarding the marijuana.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: You
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: know,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: the pharmaceuticals,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say are the
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: tools in their bag, and I mean they're up front
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: that they don't always work so well or there will
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: be side effects which aren't so desirable and even let's
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: say even some medications that aren't.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Necessarily for mental health.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Have side effects that affect my mental health,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: so it kind of puts me in a conundrum if, if,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: if you get the point.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Hm, Brian, what do you say? Are, David, are you, um,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: are you using marijuana? Are you, is that, are you
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: self-medicating with marijuana?
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I am not currently, but I have in the past.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mainly is, is like a nighttime wind down, let's
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: get to sleep. It hasn't been like an all day
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: everyday thing, more of a nighttime. Let's get the, the
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: stress or the anxiety. I,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: I suffer greatly from anxiety and lately I've been sick
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and I've had to use um.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: An inhaler for for asthma, which just the anxiety even
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: more but again I'm sick. I'm gonna do weed when
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sick,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: but I'm just looking for an alternative to get off, um,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: just being so edgy and, and finding it hard to function.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, I, I, you know, I don't want to
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: oversimplify things, but, uh, you know, I think that.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Through
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Uh, a, an intentional sort of turning to the Lord, like, OK, Lord,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: you know, this is my struggle. I've got this anxiety,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: you know, at night I'm battling with this, and, and Lord,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I want to intentionally turn to you and ask you
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: to help me with this so I don't end up, uh,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: having to self-medicate because I think, I think in the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: long run, um, even though, you know, for the moment
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: it might.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, ease your anxiety. In the long run, it's not
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: going to be helpful and it's, it's probably going to actually,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: like Phil was saying, be, be counterproductive, you know, there's
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: all kinds of new research coming out and you know,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: when I used to smoke marijuana, it was a whole
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: different story back then because, you know, you could find
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: a few strains that were really powerful, but nowadays, you,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you know, the stuff like, you know, like what.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: PCP used to be back in the 70s, I mean,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: marijuana is so powerful today, and it's, it can be
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: very detrimental, and they're also talking about psychosis, um, uh,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: marijuana being a trigger for psychosis, which they never thought
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: that before, but they're seeing it too frequently, so, so
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that I think that, um,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: You know, why not as a Christian just say Lord, I,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you to help me with this and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: let him through.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Prayer, let him through maybe putting on, you know, some.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Mild worship music, you know, just something, you know, stick
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: on some headphones and listen to a soothing voice, reading
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: the Bible or something like that, and I would be
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: willing to bet that God will meet you there and
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: help you because the other things are, I do agree
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: with Phil, it is a self-medication, is medicating. I mean,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: and you said, you know, doctors don't know, well, doctors,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you know, doctors know some stuff.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: And I have some biochemist friends who can tell you
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: all the reasons why marijuana is not a good idea, so.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I had a doctor once tell me.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: You know, we were going back and forth about something and,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: and he said, well, that's why we call it a practice.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, I just lost all my confidence
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: in you. Just the way he said it made it
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: seem like, well, you know, we might get some things wrong,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, well, interesting. David, thanks for your, oh,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Brand. I was just gonna say, you know, you,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: we've had, uh, Doctor Lou Wing on the program many times,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and Lou is a, uh,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Molecular biologist, biochemist, you know, this is his world, he
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: deals with all of these things, and he, as a
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: matter of fact, I think, um, there's probably an episode
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: at some point that we did where we actually talked about,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: The dangers of, of marijuana. Yeah, I think you did
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: a podcast with him. Um, I, yeah, I might have.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: What was that called? We used to refer to it
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: all the time because we had so many questions on it.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right or something
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: like that was the name of the episode of the, uh,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Things That Matter podcast. Things That Matter, yeah, Things That
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Matter podcast, yeah, yep, uh, almost done with the show, David.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks for calling, Linda. I think you have a follow-up
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: comment to make about the earlier discussion, but we're running
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: out of time, so go ahead quickly.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: OK, so
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: just very quickly,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: um, it is hard to deal with, um, the idea
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: of nursing infants and small children, babies being caught up
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: in the judgment of God. Um, however, when, um, for myself,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: when I look at Revelation and I see that, um,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: every tribe, every tongue, every nation, every language will be
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: before the throne of God praising Him.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Those are going to be those children. Those children who
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Brian referred to that are in evil cultures grow up
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: and they do most likely will become evil people doing that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Evil has a way of perpetrating itself, but I see
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: it as God's mercy. It's a severe mercy, but it's
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: God's mercy on those young lives and those children that
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: are taken by the sword and the judgment of God. They're, they're.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Heaven, you're not growing up in an evil culture. And
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: so that is what gives me comfort. It, it came
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: up when we were studying Genesis talking about the flood
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: of Noah, as a mother who's nursed children. I mean
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: that just grabbed my heart to think of that. But
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, it is God opening a door
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: for those children to find freedom from evil.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Brian,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: 30 seconds.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that's great, Linda, thank you for
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: that contribution because I think you're absolutely right, and I
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: think part of the problem is we so often are
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: limited in our view of, of, of life and reality.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: We only think of it now. We don't think of the,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: the next life, or, you know, like she said, those children,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I absolutely 100% agree that those children were ushered into
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: God's glorious, peaceful,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Pure presence versus growing up in the wicked, idolatrous, perverted,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: murderous cultures that they were subjected to through nature, so
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's a great point.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yup, great point. Linda, thank you for calling us today
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: here on Pastor's Perspective. We're out of time, but we'll
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: do this again tomorrow. If you couldn't get on today,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: here's a fast pass for you. Call us tomorrow. We'll
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: be here between 3 and 4 p.m. Pacific time. Phone
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: lines open about 7 minutes before 3 for pastors Brian
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Broderson and Phil Metzger. I'm Brian Perez. Bye-bye.