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Love and a Broken Marriage - 199 · Marriage Life and More and Bible Study

• 0:13
  Frank Sinatra: Love and marriage.
• 0:15
  Frank Sinatra: Love and marriage Go together like a horse and carriage.
• 0:21
  Frank Sinatra: This I tell you, brother, you can't have one without the other.
• 0:30
  Daniel Moore: This week, on Connecting the Gap, we have a special episode for you guys.
• 0:33
  Daniel Moore: My wife, michelle, is going to be joining us.
• 0:36
  Daniel Moore: We're going to be giving our testimony.
• 0:38
  Daniel Moore: I do want to give a disclaimer before we get started into this week's episode.
• 0:42
  Daniel Moore: If you have young ears around, you might want to listen to this when you're not around them.
• 0:48
  Daniel Moore: We do talk about some pretty heavy stuff and there's also some trigger warnings.
• 0:52
  Daniel Moore: If there's people that are going through some things that Michelle and I discuss over this next hour, just be prepared for that as well.
• 0:59
  Daniel Moore: I don't want anybody to be caught off guard with this testimony.
• 1:03
  Daniel Moore: It's going to be raw and we're just going to put it out there and just help you guys understand what we've been through and where we're at now.
• 1:10
  Daniel Moore: We pray that this will be something that will help and bless someone out there that's listening to this week's episode.
• 1:16
  Daniel Moore: We'll be back with that right after this.
• 1:26
  Daniel Moore: I'm Daniel Moore, your host.
• 1:32
  Daniel Moore: Thank you guys for joining us this week.
• 1:57
  Daniel Moore: If you're not familiar with our show, check out our website at wwwconnectingthegapnet for all of our platforms that we are on.
• 2:04
  Daniel Moore: We're on YouTube and Rumble.
• 2:06
  Daniel Moore: We're also on the Christian podcasting app, edify.
• 2:08
  Daniel Moore: You can also visit us on social, at facebookcom forward slash ctgaponline.
• 2:14
  Daniel Moore: If you're a fan of our show, please subscribe and feel free to leave a comment on our platforms and give us a thumbs up or a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or, if your favorite platform allows that, please do that as well there, and we'd be eternally grateful for that.
• 2:29
  Daniel Moore: That's what helps this podcast to grow and we want to make sure that this ministry reaches all of those that need to hear the things that are shared each week here.
• 2:37
  Daniel Moore: On Connecting the Gap Well, as I've been talking about here over the last probably month or month plus probably, as I've been talking about here over the last probably month or month plus probably, I've been telling you about a special series that was going to be coming your way, and for this series I've went and recruited some help.
• 2:54
  Daniel Moore: I have my beautiful wife sitting over here across from me and her name's Michelle.
• 3:00
  Daniel Moore: So what we're going to do today is we're going to be talking about our testimony, the things that we've been through, and we have quite a story.
• 3:06
  Daniel Moore: We're going to share that this week.
• 3:07
  Daniel Moore: On Connecting the Gap Well, as I've been telling you, we're going to be starting a series here pretty shortly after this week's episode.
• 3:30
  Daniel Moore: Actually it's called the Four Laws of Love and I want to welcome this week to the podcast my wife, michelle Moore.
• 3:38
  Michelle Moore: Hey everybody.
• 3:39
  Michelle Moore: Hope everybody's doing well.
• 3:41
  Michelle Moore: Super excited for this.
• 3:44
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, I've hogtied her and asked her to come on the podcast with me and she said she would.
• 3:51
  Michelle Moore: But what you can't see is my hands are absolutely tied and he's got me in here.
• 3:56
  Daniel Moore: Yep, that's right.
• 3:57
  Daniel Moore: This is going to be a lot different than what I usually put out.
• 4:01
  Daniel Moore: Typically, I script a lot of my podcasts and this week's episode and this series coming up is not going to be that way.
• 4:09
  Daniel Moore: It's going to be some real conversation between my wife and I and I think, as we get started here, you guys know a lot about me.
• 4:17
  Daniel Moore: I mean, you've been listening to me for four years some of you guys have, and others of you have been tuning in here, probably in the last year, whatever so you guys kind of know a little bit about me.
• 4:28
  Daniel Moore: But I want to go ahead and ask my wife here, as we get ready to start, just to tell a little bit about herself and her family and just get you a little bit of inside information here on my wife, michelle, michelle, before we get started in this episode.
• 4:43
  Michelle Moore: So I was born in Independence, missouri, to my mom, pat, and father John Jordan, and I have three brothers that I grew up with.
• 4:56
  Michelle Moore: So I was more like a tomboy, played sports, didn't really do the girly girl stuff at all.
• 5:03
  Michelle Moore: We actually had kind of of me and my little brother were pretty close as my two older brothers were closer.
• 5:10
  Michelle Moore: We all kind of grew up in Granby, missouri is where we actually small little town.
• 5:15
  Michelle Moore: Then I got married and back in 1995 that really dates me to my first husband and I had two boys, jacob and Jeremiah, and after six years we divorced and I got married to, as I call him, my handsome honey, daniel, and blended in with Brooklyn.
• 5:42
  Michelle Moore: So we had a blended family.
• 5:44
  Michelle Moore: And here we are today.
• 5:46
  Michelle Moore: We are empty nesters, which we absolutely love, praise the.
• 5:51
  Michelle Moore: Lord and we have two dogs, Mr Wilford and Jose, and we actually serve in ministry at a church that we attend now, and it wasn't back until like 2011, 12, I think I finally started getting somewhat serious with my relationship with God.
• 6:12
  Michelle Moore: I attended church my whole life but didn't really take it serious, and actually that's where I met Daniel.
• 6:18
  Michelle Moore: His sister was my best friend when we were younger and we used to hang out all the time.
• 6:24
  Michelle Moore: So I actually got to know Daniel when we were younger kids and, um, we hung out together and all that and so here we are now and you know, nobody expects to get married and have to go through a divorce.
• 6:43
  Daniel Moore: That's definitely should not be on anybody's radar.
• 6:45
  Daniel Moore: It definitely wasn't on our radar.
• 6:48
  Daniel Moore: But of course both of us have been divorced and we've been down a path that we do not wish on anybody.
• 6:56
  Daniel Moore: And a lot of that comes back to, in essence.
• 7:01
  Daniel Moore: I know for myself not following God's plan for my life and I knew back when I got married the first time and you've probably heard this before from different people where, especially teenagers, if they don't get along the greatest with their parents, they want to get out of the house.
• 7:19
  Daniel Moore: They try to do what they can to move that along as fast as they can, and so they get into a relationship that they think is the one.
• 7:29
  Daniel Moore: And the next thing.
• 7:30
  Daniel Moore: You know they're hurrying up through things and whether if it's an unequally yoked situation with a Christian and a non-Christian or whatever it may be, we always got our excuses for like, well, we can fix them, we can change them and make this whole process work, or whatever, whatever the thoughts are that goes through our minds, not realizing the huge situation that we're putting ourselves into and all the battles that we're going to face just within years of being married, and that's pretty much what happened with me.
• 8:02
  Daniel Moore: I don't know if for you, when you got married the first time, what was your thoughts when you went into your first marriage?
• 8:11
  Daniel Moore: Where did you see yourself when you got married the first time, when that happened for you?
• 8:16
  Michelle Moore: I actually didn't ever, and I don't know that I ever thought about getting divorced.
• 8:21
  Michelle Moore: I don't know that it really crossed my mind.
• 8:23
  Michelle Moore: I knew that he didn't go to church for the right reasons, I think he just went to church occasionally just to appease me and I thought, oh, I could change him.
• 8:36
  Michelle Moore: He'll start going to church with me and you know, several years later the two boys come around and never did.
• 8:44
  Michelle Moore: I mean, there was many times that I took the boys by myself and a lot of things had changed in our relationship.
• 8:53
  Michelle Moore: So back when you're in high school, you're young and I wouldn't say you don't think you have your whole life ahead of you, you just want to live life and you think, oh my, you know, this is the love of my life and, in reality, of stepping back and actually praying about it and knowing what God wants you to do, because if I look back at it, it really wasn't what God's plan was for me.
• 9:19
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, my dad told me several times you need to watch what you're doing.
• 9:24
  Daniel Moore: You're getting yourself unequally yoked in my situation, but I, just as a teenager, you know it all, you know, you've got it all figured out, all the answers, and nobody can help you.
• 9:36
  Daniel Moore: Nobody can tell you any different.
• 9:37
  Daniel Moore: And so that's what I did.
• 9:39
  Daniel Moore: I just went ahead and moved forward with that.
• 9:41
  Daniel Moore: Now, with all that being said, we all know, as Christians, divorce should not be a word that ever comes up in our marriage, and Michelle and I, over the years as we've been married, did not really follow that plan very well.
• 9:58
  Daniel Moore: A lot of you out there heard her talk about herself here at the beginning of the podcast, and a lot of you know me, but you all probably don't realize that there's a lot more underneath the surface than what meets the eye.
• 10:12
  Daniel Moore: Michelle and I's had a very rocky marriage there at the beginning for quite a few years, and, as much as we all like to blame things on the other person, more often than not as we've talked to other couples that struggled as well and then within our own testimony we come to find out that it takes two to tango and usually there's not one perfect person in the relationship and the other person's the troublemaker.
• 10:40
  Daniel Moore: I'm not saying that never happens, but more often than not there's usually problems on both sides of the story that are causing issues.
• 10:49
  Daniel Moore: So I know that.
• 10:52
  Daniel Moore: You know, Michelle and I, when we got divorced.
• 10:56
  Daniel Moore: I was divorced first and I was single for about five years and for obvious reasons we're not going to get into the first marriage out of respect, we're not going to really touch on that a whole lot.
• 11:10
  Daniel Moore: There were things that happened on both sides of the equation there as well, but throughout all of the things that happened with those first marriages, I ended up getting divorced after about I think it was six to seven years of marriage, something like that, and I ended up being single for five years.
• 11:27
  Daniel Moore: Well, my problem was is, whenever I was married the first time, I knew within a couple of years of being married, that I just didn't think it was going to work.
• 11:34
  Daniel Moore: Everything that my dad had warned me of and talked to me about, all of that was coming around and I was starting to realize that my dad was a little smarter than I gave him credit for and it was not looking good at all.
• 11:48
  Daniel Moore: Well, I continued to go ahead and stay in that marriage.
• 11:52
  Daniel Moore: And as one last ditch effort, we had our daughter, and I would not trade my daughter for anything.
• 11:57
  Daniel Moore: I love her to death.
• 11:58
  Daniel Moore: But within before she was even one year old, I was already filing for divorce.
• 12:04
  Daniel Moore: Well, that whole first marriage I kind of checked out real early in that marriage and when I saw that things weren't going to work, I gave up and really just wanted to move on.
• 12:16
  Daniel Moore: Which we all know as Christians, that's not how we're really supposed to handle marriage.
• 12:20
  Daniel Moore: God wants us to try to do everything that we can to make those marriages work because, in essence, when you read the Bible, marriage is an example of that relationship between us and Christ.
• 12:31
  Daniel Moore: And when we have that relationship with Christ, we are in that holy matrimony, that holy marriage with him.
• 12:38
  Daniel Moore: That's how our marriage on earth is supposed to reflect.
• 12:43
  Daniel Moore: But it's obvious, when you're not really walking the Christian walk like you should and you're not really doing the things you should, you're getting out of church and all the different not reading your Bible, you're not praying.
• 12:53
  Daniel Moore: We're working through this thing on our own, making our own choices, our own decisions.
• 12:58
  Daniel Moore: That's exactly where I was at, and so when I ended up getting divorced, I was single for five years and I was really used to that when Michelle and I got married.
• 13:09
  Daniel Moore: So whenever we got married, we got married in 2002.
• 13:13
  Daniel Moore: So we're gonna do here.
• 13:15
  Daniel Moore: First is I want to walk a little bit through why we had our problems.
• 13:19
  Daniel Moore: So just to kind of give a little bit of a time frame to start with here.
• 13:23
  Daniel Moore: We got married in 2002.
• 13:30
  Michelle Moore: All of our problems peaked in, would you say, around 2008, 2009?
• 13:34
  Michelle Moore: You know, I think it started in kind of more.
• 13:42
  Michelle Moore: For me it built from 2004 and kind of up, but I would say yes, probably about 2008 when it really blew up.
• 13:46
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, so let's talk about those first years while we were married and why we ended up where we were.
• 13:52
  Daniel Moore: Because, as you said, you were friends with my sister and so I knew you well before even I got married the first time.
• 14:00
  Daniel Moore: I knew you for a long time before that and, ironically, I knew you for a long time before that and, ironically, we both have agreed with each other that we had feelings for each other before we got married the first time.
• 14:11
  Daniel Moore: But there was an age gap.
• 14:12
  Daniel Moore: I will throw that out there, the one reason that we did not get married the first time around.
• 14:18
  Michelle Moore: Or together, or together.
• 14:20
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, let me phrase that yeah the reason that never happened is because there was, you know about a five-year gap there and, of course, when you're 18 years old, five years is a pretty good gap.
• 14:33
  Daniel Moore: I think her mom and dad would have ran me off, probably, yes they would have.
• 14:37
  Daniel Moore: If I'd have popped up when she was 13 years old.
• 14:40
  Daniel Moore: So again it comes back to me trying to get out of my house.
• 14:43
  Daniel Moore: My dad and I wasn't getting along.
• 14:45
  Daniel Moore: My mom and dad had been divorced by this point and there was a couple of years there that my dad and I didn't get along, and so I was trying to get away from home and so, regardless of the fact of how I felt about Michelle, I decided to go ahead and just jump headfirst right into the marriage, get out of the house and everything was going to be fine.
• 15:06
  Daniel Moore: However, that did not happen for me.
• 15:08
  Daniel Moore: I never really got past Michelle.
• 15:11
  Daniel Moore: It was probably one of my biggest problems.
• 15:13
  Daniel Moore: I've never really admitted that to hardly anyone, but that's kind of what it came around to, and so that automatically started causing some of the issues that were taking place in our marriage.
• 15:26
  Daniel Moore: While I was single for five years, I dated around and dated a few different people and made some friends with some of them.
• 15:36
  Daniel Moore: That whenever Michelle and I ended up getting married in 2002, I brought those friendships into our marriage, and I'm going to let her talk from the female side.
• 15:48
  Daniel Moore: So go ahead and kind of give a little bit of the beginnings of yours and then explain why that would be a problem that I would bring female friendships into our marriage from the female point of view.
• 15:59
  Michelle Moore: Well, I came from a previous marriage that things had happened and so trusting someone was really important to me in the second marriage and to have, you know, the trust, the faith in them and not having another sex as a good friend or best friend, and that sometimes I want to say something and I'm like, no, I'm not going to say that.
• 16:27
  Michelle Moore: So I think, mostly coming from that to get married, I put everything into you, I put everything into you and at any point in time did I ever think you would break my trust?
• 16:43
  Michelle Moore: At any point in time did I ever think you would break my trust?
• 16:47
  Michelle Moore: And I can remember you having a friendship and I'd asked you multiple times not to be talking to that person and because it really hurt me, because I didn't think you loved me enough to talk to me for me to be the one that you need to turn to, that you need to talk about your feelings, your emotions, just your daily stuff, it was always just somebody else besides me.
• 17:13
  Michelle Moore: So it truly started breaking my heart piece by piece on the inside, and it also started making me think the trust factor of, because of what had happened in my past, that I really honestly I just didn't believe some of the things you said, because if I'd catch you in a conversation it would make me really angry and I think you've seen a side of me.
• 17:41
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, it kind of escalated to a point one day because I did.
• 17:44
  Daniel Moore: As it goes with marriages, sometimes when things aren't really kosher like they should be, things get hidden and one spouse does not want to let the other spouse.
• 17:53
  Daniel Moore: You know they try to hide things that are going on.
• 17:55
  Daniel Moore: And so, with this friendship, I knew that she did not approve.
• 18:00
  Daniel Moore: I knew Michelle did not approve of that, so there was as much as possible I would try to deny the fact that it was actually happening.
• 18:08
  Daniel Moore: But one day there was a phone call that was made and I answered the phone and that's back in the good old days of landlines.
• 18:15
  Daniel Moore: We don't know what those are anymore because we'll have cell phones now, but back then we had the landlines and the cordless ones so you can take the handset and go way away from everybody.
• 18:25
  Daniel Moore: And so I answered the phone in one room.
• 18:28
  Daniel Moore: She was outside and happened to have a phone as well and answered that and heard part of my conversation and I was trying to be sneaky and I got caught and that's the first time I've ever had a landline phone thrown at me clear across the room.
• 18:42
  Daniel Moore: She came back inside and was furious by all rights and threw the phone at me and I tried to fix that because you know you don't want to get caught doing that kind of stuff.
• 18:54
  Daniel Moore: But I think at that point we were really starting on our downward spiral when all of that took place, and in the middle of all this, as well, as Michelle mentioned, she had two boys and I had my daughter and originally coming into the marriage, we had talked about our future goals and things that we would like to do as we got married and one of the things that came up was having more children.
• 19:19
  Daniel Moore: And I will admit and Michelle even and I will admit and Michelle even vouched for this I love kids.
• 19:26
  Daniel Moore: I'm not really a whole lot of a kid person, but I had mine.
• 19:30
  Daniel Moore: We had the three between of us.
• 19:38
  Daniel Moore: Between the two of us, we had the three and when she was single for a little bit, the youngest, he was a handful and me and him clashed real quickly.
• 19:48
  Daniel Moore: I grew up in a very strict environment in my home, a very legalistic environment as far as spiritually, and my dad was military, he was a deputy sheriff.
• 20:00
  Daniel Moore: Of course, the legalism part of it, you know, the discipline, is pretty harsh sometimes.
• 20:07
  Daniel Moore: I grew up in that and obviously as people grow up they a lot of times take on those attributes as they get older and they take it into their own parenting, they take it into their own marriages.
• 20:18
  Daniel Moore: Whatever you learn is, you know, when you're younger you take that into that and so that's what happened.
• 20:24
  Daniel Moore: I was, you know, really strict.
• 20:25
  Daniel Moore: I'm one of those that demanded respect from the kids.
• 20:28
  Daniel Moore: I didn't want any back talking, any of that kind of thing.
• 20:31
  Daniel Moore: And when I, when our youngest and myself, clashed like we did, it just kept escalating.
• 20:37
  Daniel Moore: It got to the point where you know he's one of those kids that if you give him a centimeter he takes 10 miles.
• 20:44
  Daniel Moore: It was just really difficult for me because I wanted the respect and I wanted the obedience.
• 20:50
  Daniel Moore: We had problems at school with school teachers and just all kinds, I mean you name it.
• 20:55
  Daniel Moore: He really tried our patience.
• 20:59
  Daniel Moore: Just on a side note, he grew out of that.
• 21:02
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, he did.
• 21:03
  Daniel Moore: I was getting to that, that point.
• 21:06
  Daniel Moore: But it came to a point where even michelle's family did not really care for me a whole lot.
• 21:12
  Daniel Moore: They thought that I was too hard on the kids.
• 21:15
  Daniel Moore: My nickname was sergeant and they let me know several times that they did not approve of the way that I disciplined.
• 21:24
  Daniel Moore: But and I know, looking back at it now, I know, even from a parenting standpoint, I did a lot of things wrong and I know that I approached things the incorrect way.
• 21:36
  Daniel Moore: But that didn't change the fact that I'd already had that relationship take place with him.
• 21:44
  Daniel Moore: But, as Michelle said, he's a fine, upstanding young man at this point that I'd already had that relationship take place with him.
• 21:48
  Daniel Moore: But, as Michelle said, he's a fine, upstanding young man at this point and actually has two going on, three granddaughters, and you know he did grow out of that.
• 21:57
  Daniel Moore: But what happened during that time frame is that also kind of started creating a divide between Michelle and myself.
• 22:04
  Daniel Moore: That also kind of started creating a divide between Michelle and myself because there's kind of a point where I almost felt like I was on an island, sometimes by myself, because I was, you know, trying to keep him under control, trying to discipline, trying to, you know, keep him from getting in trouble all the time, and throwing fits in the Walmart, in the floor, and just all the stuff that took place, and I felt like nobody understood what I was going through, and so that also started causing issues between the two of us as well, and so this whole thing was just starting to escalate and it was not going well at all.
• 22:42
  Daniel Moore: I had a job as at the fire department at the time, and everything was going pretty well at that job, for you know, I'd been there for almost 14 years and so a person started working at the fire department that was related to this whole situation, and it came down to a point where I felt like that was probably going to be an issue to cause even more problems in our marriage, and I was working a second job at the time and that job was paying me pretty well, and so the opportunity came up to quit the fire department and go to this other job.
• 23:21
  Daniel Moore: Well, I decided to do that and I didn't pray about it, I just made the choice and decided just to go do that.
• 23:30
  Daniel Moore: When I did, that, job went well for a couple of years I made probably some of the best money I've ever made in my life at that job.
• 23:39
  Daniel Moore: But two years later the economy crashes, which was're getting close to the mid early 2000s there and I ended up getting laid off from that job and when that happened, it's like everything just crashed down.
• 23:55
  Daniel Moore: I know you know, when you're a guy and you're married and you have kids, you feel a responsibility.
• 24:01
  Daniel Moore: It's a responsibility that you take care of your family and I just felt like a responsibility.
• 24:04
  Daniel Moore: It's a responsibility that you take care of your family and I just felt like a failure.
• 24:06
  Daniel Moore: I mean, I had a great job for 14 years with benefits and all of that.
• 24:11
  Daniel Moore: I gave that up to take on what I thought was better because I was after the money.
• 24:14
  Daniel Moore: And then all of a sudden, here I am now with no job and our marriage is already having some issues and some problems and I had no job.
• 24:25
  Daniel Moore: I started going through.
• 24:26
  Daniel Moore: What I realize now is a depression and it took my wife a little bit to tell me that I was going through that.
• 24:33
  Daniel Moore: And I'm going to ask you to talk a little bit about that time frame, about how you were feeling as you were watching all this take place with me and how you realize you know that I was going through that depression, and how did that cause issues between us from your side of it?
• 24:51
  Michelle Moore: Well, I'm going to go back to the kids.
• 24:55
  Michelle Moore: When we got married, I really wanted another kid, I really wanted to try to have a girl, and a blended family is very difficult, so I really wanted to have one of our own and coming into the marriage that was something that was discussed and everything was fine with that discussion, up until the point of it not being because of situations with Jeremiah and just different things.
• 25:33
  Michelle Moore: But I can remember a certain discussion that you had came home one day and talked to me about and I'm going to throw it back to you I forgot about this part because this is one of the parts that really just, yes, actually killed me from for several years actually yeah, we did.
• 25:53
  Daniel Moore: We discussed having children and I was kind of heading that direction earlier when I was talking about it, but then I got I missed that part and forgot about it when we were talking about having children and I was in agreement.
• 26:04
  Daniel Moore: Well, well, the longer that this went on with our youngest and then her family and then the situation between her and I, I got to the point where I just decided there is no way that I want to have another kid in the middle of all of this, because I think there's even a part of me probably is as I look back and what I remember.
• 26:25
  Daniel Moore: I think there was a part of me at that point that was already probably questioning if this marriage was going to last, because just so much stuff was going on and there was a division there and I think you've probably could feel that when all that was going on there, there was a division there and we could feel it.
• 26:43
  Daniel Moore: We knew it was.
• 26:44
  Daniel Moore: We knew it was there.
• 26:44
  Daniel Moore: Now, this whole time, we're trying to hide this from our kids.
• 26:48
  Michelle Moore: You know we're, we're not one.
• 26:49
  Michelle Moore: I don't know that I felt like it was the end of the road.
• 26:52
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, I mean it was there, but I think, being a blended family, you face so many challenges that I felt like we were just facing challenges.
• 27:03
  Michelle Moore: I didn't ever once cross my mind that like, hey, this is going to end up, we're going to be gone, you know, not together anymore.
• 27:10
  Michelle Moore: I don't think it ever crossed my mind on any of that.
• 27:13
  Michelle Moore: It's just we're faced with another challenge.
• 27:16
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, and see, I think I was taking that the problems and a lot of the irritation, the aggravation, was being pointed towards me, and whether if I asked you know in-laws, or if I asked Michelle, or it seemed like whoever I asked, everybody thought I was the wrong person in the whole thing and I was really fighting that a lot.
• 27:50
  Daniel Moore: And so I decided that I didn't want to have any more children, and so I started doing some research on what it took to get that taken care of, and I ended up finding out that I could go have the procedure done where I couldn't have any more kids.
• 28:08
  Daniel Moore: But in order to do that, especially at the age that I was at that time, the spouse had to be in agreement, and if I remember right, I think we had to do some type of little counseling thing with the doctor, didn't we?
• 28:19
  Daniel Moore: Didn't he talk to us?
• 28:21
  Daniel Moore: I was trying to remember on that, but there was a little bit of stuff we had to do, though to make that happen, but she obviously did not.
• 28:31
  Daniel Moore: You didn't want that to take place.
• 28:32
  Michelle Moore: No.
• 28:33
  Daniel Moore: And so we were back and forth at each other on this.
• 28:36
  Daniel Moore: Well, I eventually just said well, there's ways I can get around this, I'm going to get it one way or the other.
• 28:42
  Daniel Moore: Whether if you're part of it or not, you don't have to sign off on it, I can just do it.
• 28:46
  Daniel Moore: Of it or not, you don't have to sign off on it, I can just do it.
• 28:51
  Daniel Moore: And so pretty much what I was doing was I was lying about it, because I did have to have the signature.
• 28:54
  Michelle Moore: And, of course, I was naive, because I trusted him.
• 28:57
  Daniel Moore: Right.
• 28:57
  Michelle Moore: I would never think that he would do something that meant so much to me.
• 29:01
  Daniel Moore: Right and so, without her realizing the truth of the whole matter, I ended up going ahead and getting the procedure, and so in my mind I took care of that problem and didn't have to worry about it anymore.
• 29:14
  Daniel Moore: But what I hadn't thought about was the impact it was going to have on you, because I knew that you wanted kids and I knew you wanted them pretty badly.
• 29:25
  Daniel Moore: But in my mind I'm thinking we've got three.
• 29:27
  Daniel Moore: I mean, how many more do we need, you know, especially with all the problems that we're already having and everything that's going on.
• 29:35
  Daniel Moore: So you know, that was my male side, trying to justify all of this and write it off.
• 29:42
  Daniel Moore: But from the female side, there's an emotional part of that.
• 29:46
  Michelle Moore: Oh yeah, I mean I was devastated, like I can't even explain the years.
• 29:52
  Michelle Moore: I mean it took me years to get over that because you took away the one opportunity that I had to have that girl and it could have probably been another boy, but it was the opportunity or chance to have that and I mean I have.
• 30:11
  Michelle Moore: We have Brooklyn, you know, but to have your own daughter day in and day out is something I've always dreamed of and that's something that I really truly wanted.
• 30:21
  Michelle Moore: And so the emotional part just, I mean it just destroyed me on the inside and you know.
• 30:32
  Daniel Moore: Well, there's also the factor that a lot of couples want kids with themselves Because, as we've said, we were a split family.
• 30:42
  Daniel Moore: The two boys are not mine.
• 30:43
  Daniel Moore: I consider them my kids.
• 30:45
  Daniel Moore: They're my sons.
• 30:46
  Michelle Moore: Same as Brooke.
• 30:47
  Daniel Moore: It's no different Absolutely, but in all reality, when you come down to the nuts and bolts of the whole thing, they're them, my kids, they're my sons, it's no different.
• 30:50
  Daniel Moore: But in all reality, when you come down to the nuts and bolts of the whole thing, they're not my boys, she's not your girl, and there is something to be said to have a child together that the two of you make.
• 31:00
  Daniel Moore: And so some of you guys listening out there, you may have already been through something like this, possibly, or you may be heading down this path already, and so this is just something that we want to share, to give you fair warning that you've got to be really careful when you make these choices like this, and you've got to make sure that you both are on the same page and that you both are in full agreement.
• 31:22
  Daniel Moore: If you decide to make these choices, when you go behind someone's back and you manipulate and you connive and you try to make it happen, you're heading down a very bad road.
• 31:32
  Daniel Moore: That's going to be a very bad situation, real quick.
• 31:35
  Michelle Moore: And I think, you know, had we prayed about it together and really sought God's heart in the whole situation, I think in the end I was striving for something that I didn't really need.
• 31:50
  Michelle Moore: I mean, I really should have fulfilled that want with God and even though it didn't happen, I you know, after many years of healing, I think it was the right decision.
• 32:04
  Michelle Moore: You know, don't, you know, gloat over that one over there.
• 32:08
  Michelle Moore: But I mean I really look back and I think you know everything we've walked through and how much it is with a blended family versus, you know, having three children involved in multiple things, you know, and losing sight of just our relationship.
• 32:24
  Michelle Moore: And you know that I look back now and I know that, you know, even though that was a very selfish decision, you know, for us it was probably the right thing.
• 32:35
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, but we do want to put a disclaimer.
• 32:37
  Daniel Moore: That doesn't mean that that's the right option for everybody.
• 32:40
  Michelle Moore: No.
• 32:40
  Michelle Moore: I would tell anybody to seek prayer, seek God's heart, and do it together, do it separately, you know, that's one thing.
• 32:50
  Daniel Moore: we totally, totally missed that mark on yeah, I think our prayer life was kind of dissolved at that point.
• 32:54
  Daniel Moore: It really wasn't.
• 32:55
  Michelle Moore: We didn't pray about much no, and and I look back now and you know one of the things I always tell everybody keep God at the center, keep him at the top of everything, because you lose focus.
• 33:07
  Michelle Moore: There's multiple things of the world that comes in and you start thinking of for yourself Like it's not.
• 33:20
  Michelle Moore: You know, even for you.
• 33:20
  Michelle Moore: You know how much I love you and want to do things for you.
• 33:22
  Michelle Moore: I have to keep God's center because there are things that I don't need to do for you or you know it's very, very important in a marriage.
• 33:29
  Daniel Moore: Right, and what this ends up creating was a monster, because what ended up happening?
• 33:37
  Daniel Moore: I shut down and she will tell you.
• 33:41
  Daniel Moore: There was many years there that she really didn't feel like she even knew me.
• 33:46
  Daniel Moore: She felt like I was keeping secrets.
• 33:48
  Daniel Moore: She felt like I wasn't being honest with her.
• 33:50
  Daniel Moore: I didn't talk much.
• 33:52
  Michelle Moore: There was no communication, no communication at all.
• 33:54
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, if I did talk, it was very minimal.
• 33:57
  Daniel Moore: I, within myself, knew that I was wrong.
• 34:00
  Daniel Moore: I knew that I did the wrong thing.
• 34:02
  Daniel Moore: Morally, I still felt like I did the right thing for me because I was selfish.
• 34:08
  Michelle Moore: And you know, I don't know that we talked about it for years, until after we went through 2008, 2009, that we actually ever discussed it.
• 34:18
  Michelle Moore: So I still, this whole time still didn't realize that you could do that and me not know that I had a choice in it.
• 34:29
  Daniel Moore: Right.
• 34:30
  Daniel Moore: And so with all of this that's happened and you know, with me kind of mentally, almost kind of checking out to a point, I was not being the husband that I needed to be, I was not being there for you like I should have been, and it started getting to the point where we kind of felt like we were on separate islands.
• 34:48
  Michelle Moore: Right, because when you went into depression it was very lonely for me.
• 34:54
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, because you didn't.
• 34:57
  Michelle Moore: I mean like you were there, but I've never seen you lay around and stuff like that, because you're active, you always stayed busy and stuff like that.
• 35:07
  Michelle Moore: But you got to the point where you didn't want to do anything and I think at that time I was like okay, something's wrong with you, you know you need to snap out of it yeah, and that included even not.
• 35:18
  Daniel Moore: I didn't want to work on our marriage no it literally, it just came to that snapping point.
• 35:23
  Daniel Moore: So what happened with you then?
• 35:26
  Daniel Moore: What?
• 35:26
  Daniel Moore: What ended up taking place with all of this going on and everything that was a turning point in your life?
• 35:34
  Daniel Moore: What happened after that from your side?
• 35:38
  Michelle Moore: Oh gosh, I was completely crushed at the fact that the person that I married, that was supposed to be my best friend, the love of my life that I married, that was supposed to be my best friend, the love of my life, had really just hurt me so deeply that there was anger, resentment, bitterness.
• 36:00
  Michelle Moore: I started shutting off, like shutting down toward any feelings towards you, and I didn't recognize how bad it had gotten.
• 36:08
  Michelle Moore: I didn't recognize how bad it had gotten I mean it was bad and to the fact that you know at some point and you know, the job that I had was stressful at the time, and so you know it was easy for me to turn to somebody else and start talking to someone and just telling them Because I wasn't there, that is.
• 36:29
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, this is a key point that everyone needs to listen to, because if you check out of your marriage and you stop communicating, you are opening yourself up to all kinds of things, and exactly what she's getting ready to talk about here.
• 36:42
  Michelle Moore: You know, it was easy.
• 36:43
  Michelle Moore: I mean, I am a person that I want to be told that, hey, I love you.
• 36:53
  Michelle Moore: I want to be told that, hey, you look good today, or hey, just do something special, like with a card or something, and just be there for me to listen, to support me.
• 37:06
  Michelle Moore: And you know, running around with three kids is a lot and you know, among just daily challenges and when you don't have that there, you start talking to other people.
• 37:18
  Michelle Moore: And that's really what happened was just talking about work and then just kind of slowly opened a door for me to talk about other things and go talk about my marriage and what the problems were, and then, just as I started talking about it, it just built more anger, more bitterness, to the point to where I mean I hate to say this, but and you know, I hated you, like I hated you, and hate is a very strong word but I seen a side of me come out that was mean, that was spiteful to you, and I never would ever think that would happen.
• 38:01
  Michelle Moore: But I mean some of the things I said that came out.
• 38:05
  Michelle Moore: I'm like who is this person?
• 38:08
  Michelle Moore: And I know you remember that, because some of those things you can't take back what you say and I'm like I was doing things that I would never think or thought that I would do.
• 38:23
  Michelle Moore: I had a friend that I thought was a really good friend and they didn't like you and it caused more friction of the fact that they kept pushing me to get away from Daniel because he had treated me this way and I didn't deserve that.
• 38:42
  Michelle Moore: And you know I look back.
• 38:45
  Michelle Moore: A friend isn't like that.
• 38:47
  Michelle Moore: A friend comes beside you and say, hey, what you're doing is wrong.
• 38:52
  Michelle Moore: You know you're to love your husband, you're to pray with your husband, you're supposed to be there for him, even though there's problems, you know to come up beside you and to be there and to support you.
• 39:06
  Michelle Moore: But they were cheering me on the other side and so it it was easier for me to walk away than it was to actually stay.
• 39:17
  Michelle Moore: And you know we we got to the point where we decided I was going to move out and you went and looked at apartments with me and then we told the kids and I can remember you know you started fighting for the marriage and I was like what?
• 39:37
  Michelle Moore: Who's this person?
• 39:38
  Michelle Moore: Why, all of a sudden, are you fighting for the marriage?
• 39:42
  Michelle Moore: And you can tell.
• 39:43
  Michelle Moore: You know what on your side, what made you start fighting for our marriage?
• 39:50
  Daniel Moore: Well, pretty much what ended up.
• 39:53
  Daniel Moore: What took place was when you had started the friendship with the other guy.
• 40:01
  Daniel Moore: There was an affair involved at that point as well.
• 40:05
  Daniel Moore: I think it was a come to Jesus moment.
• 40:08
  Daniel Moore: And there's the old song by out there, I think it's by Cinderella you don't know what you got till it's gone.
• 40:15
  Daniel Moore: It's just one of those things that you know when everything's there.
• 40:21
  Daniel Moore: You haven't lost nothing.
• 40:23
  Daniel Moore: Yet you think you're invincible, you think that nothing's going to happen.
• 40:27
  Daniel Moore: I mean, her and I had been friends for so long, although you would have known it at this point in our relationship.
• 40:34
  Daniel Moore: You thought we were complete enemies because of what we had created between the two of us.
• 40:39
  Daniel Moore: But I just, I guess for some reason I just even though I wasn't sure if it was going to last between the two of us, deep down inside, inside, I knew I wanted it to, regardless of how bad it got, I still wanted to be where I was at in the marriage, but I wasn't sure what was going to happen.
• 40:58
  Daniel Moore: And then, when that relationship happened that you had that really was a wake-up call for me, and I think that was a real moment.
• 41:10
  Daniel Moore: I think I realized at that point that I had messed up.
• 41:12
  Daniel Moore: I knew that I had totally messed the whole thing up and I started looking back.
• 41:19
  Daniel Moore: You know, over the previous years and this was, I think, 2008,.
• 41:24
  Daniel Moore: 2009 was roughly when this was all taking place so we'd been married at that point about six years and those six years started replaying over my mind, over and over and over of all the things that we'd been through, all the things that I had done and, by this point in time, the friend that I had that I was trying to keep in our relationship.
• 41:44
  Daniel Moore: I had gotten away from that and had stopped all of that and it wasn't happening anymore.
• 41:50
  Daniel Moore: But the damage had already been done, so much that we were constantly at each other.
• 41:57
  Daniel Moore: You know, the both of us were just continually having arguments and that division was there.
• 42:05
  Michelle Moore: And you know it wasn't just about the relationship or the affair, but you know you have finances.
• 42:11
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, you know and you have major financial problems would be losing the jobs that's part of the depression yeah, that really took a toll on us when he lost his job.
• 42:21
  Michelle Moore: It really killed us financially.
• 42:25
  Michelle Moore: And you know, when you're not used to being able to not spend after you were spending, you know it takes its toll on you.
• 42:33
  Michelle Moore: And then you have, you know, your children, and then you have blended families.
• 42:38
  Michelle Moore: And when you have blended families you end up marrying not just your husband or your wife, but you end up kind of somewhat marrying the exes, and so you have that toll on you as well.
• 42:52
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, because there's child support and there's just everything, and you know the differences in living in houses, you know, and there was just a lot there that I feel like, you know, created a big, huge cloud for us, like, and you know it wasn't we never took time for each other and we are constantly on the go with our children and you know, we just and I'm a mama, I'm just going to be honest Mama's hearts are so different than a man's heart and a daddy's heart.
• 43:30
  Michelle Moore: A mama wants to baby their children and once you know, you know sometimes they need to be in trouble, but it breaks your heart and you don't, you know, maybe they just didn't mean that, and so Dan was very strict on a lot of things.
• 43:47
  Michelle Moore: So we did argue a lot about some of that and you know I didn't have that growing up in my childhood.
• 43:55
  Michelle Moore: My brothers, my two older brothers, did, but for myself I was a daddy's little girl and so I honestly it created a lot, but there was a lot there.
• 44:07
  Michelle Moore: Honestly, it created a lot, but there was a lot there and again, we didn't ever put God in this relationship.
• 44:14
  Michelle Moore: No, we went to church guys.
• 44:16
  Michelle Moore: Hey, we attended church, we did church, formed the pews, but to have that intimate relationship for our marriage and for ourselves.
• 44:25
  Michelle Moore: It wasn't there.
• 44:27
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, marriage, and for ourselves, it wasn't there.
• 44:29
  Daniel Moore: Yep, and biblically?
• 44:30
  Daniel Moore: If you look through the Bible, you will notice that there's story after story after story.
• 44:35
  Daniel Moore: When did people finally get on their knees and let God become part of the equation?
• 44:41
  Daniel Moore: It's when they were at their lowest valley.
• 44:44
  Daniel Moore: That's what happened.
• 44:46
  Daniel Moore: I crashed when I realized that my marriage was slipping out of my fingers.
• 44:51
  Daniel Moore: It wasn't anymore just me and you trying to survive.
• 44:55
  Daniel Moore: It came to a point I'm now having to fight for what I had.
• 44:59
  Daniel Moore: I'm losing all of it Because, like you said, it eventually came down to the point where you started looking at apartments and we finally told the kids what was going on, because we kept all this away from them for quite some time.
• 45:07
  Daniel Moore: Came down to the point where you started looking at apartments and we finally told the kids what was going on, because we kept all this away from them for quite some time and we finally told them that the problems were there and that we were going to be, you know, probably separating and all this stuff was going to be taking place.
• 45:19
  Daniel Moore: And I think those are some for real moments.
• 45:23
  Daniel Moore: That's when everything just kind of you snap back to reality and you realize I screwed up.
• 45:27
  Daniel Moore: You know that I've messed this up bad.
• 45:30
  Daniel Moore: Now I, you know, trying to figure out how am I going to reel this back in, how am I going to fix these problems that I've created, and all I felt like I mean, I felt like a total failure.
• 45:40
  Daniel Moore: I felt like the.
• 45:41
  Daniel Moore: You know I had totally just messed up anything and everything you know between myself and you and our marriage.
• 45:46
  Daniel Moore: I've also got the situation with the kids.
• 45:50
  Daniel Moore: Now, you know, are the boys going to hate me because of what I've done to you?
• 45:53
  Daniel Moore: Is Brooke going to hate you because?
• 45:55
  Daniel Moore: Is she going to blame you for all of this?
• 45:58
  Daniel Moore: All of that stuff comes into the equation at that point and I finally crashed.
• 46:04
  Daniel Moore: I finally had to bring God into the equation, which I should have had him there all along, but I didn't.
• 46:10
  Daniel Moore: And so now I'm constantly, I'm just, I mean, I'm praying nonstop, although I still felt like that it was a lost cause.
• 46:19
  Daniel Moore: I really didn't think that it was going to make it through.
• 46:22
  Daniel Moore: But there was a changing point.
• 46:26
  Daniel Moore: As you all know, michelle's still sitting here.
• 46:28
  Daniel Moore: But there was a changing point.
• 46:29
  Daniel Moore: As you all know, michelle's still sitting here.
• 46:29
  Daniel Moore: So you're probably thinking well, how did that happen?
• 46:31
  Daniel Moore: Because this is pretty raw and crazy.
• 46:34
  Daniel Moore: So what caused you to stay?
• 46:38
  Daniel Moore: Why did you change your mind about the apartment that day and what caused you to think twice about all of this and give it another chance?
• 46:50
  Michelle Moore: It was the night before I was supposed to move out and I, honestly, I knew deep down inside that I loved you, like you.
• 46:58
  Michelle Moore: I loved you Like it was like a love I've never had before.
• 47:03
  Michelle Moore: But I was trying to figure out how do I get past all the hate and the bitterness and the angerness that was created inside of me to still stay with you, and I think I mean, honestly, it had to be God, I mean to keep me from moving.
• 47:27
  Michelle Moore: I mean, I think there's just something that the fact that it was like, hey, let's try this, you know, and let's see what happens, and I think that if it wasn't for you praying, we would not be here today, for fighting for our marriage here today for fighting for our marriage.
• 47:47
  Michelle Moore: And you know one of the things we had multiple talks, you know, after that, after we decided, you know how are we going to get past this.
• 47:55
  Michelle Moore: You know the past is going to.
• 48:02
  Michelle Moore: You know, be behind us and not talk about it.
• 48:03
  Michelle Moore: You know, and the trust factor for me so that you could trust me walking forward to it, and you know, and I think the biggest thing was, you actually opened up and you poured everything out to me and I think for the first time I ever seen you, you were vulnerable and you laid it all out and I think at that time I'm like, okay, you know, he's shown me who he is right at this moment and I'm I'm willing to try it.
• 48:38
  Daniel Moore: I mean, of course, you know I've loved you for for a long time, so it's yeah, it was definitely a god thing yeah, it truly was, as we both have looked back and we've shared this story with you know, friends of ours uh, that's, that's pretty close to us.
• 48:54
  Daniel Moore: And you know we've talked to people that's had issues and you know there's really no other way to explain it, because when she says she hated me, she's not joking.
• 49:04
  Daniel Moore: I mean mean it's, it was very obvious.
• 49:07
  Daniel Moore: And I think because I think that was part of the equation too that I'd never seen that side of you before.
• 49:13
  Daniel Moore: And I think when you showed that and that was a reality check for me I think I really realized at that point what I really did to cause a lot of the stuff that had happened.
• 49:26
  Daniel Moore: And you know, of course, we had talked several times and I told you how you know, multiple times how I felt like I deserved what I got and all that kind of thing.
• 49:36
  Daniel Moore: But I think you know one thing that we need to put out there, you know, as we share this story this week, is no one really deserves anything like that.
• 49:49
  Daniel Moore: no one really deserves anything like that.
• 49:50
  Daniel Moore: You know there is going to be some blame on one side or the other, or both sides.
• 49:52
  Daniel Moore: It's just that's the way it's always going to be.
• 49:55
  Daniel Moore: Somebody's had to have gotten out of line somewhere for this stuff to have happened.
• 49:59
  Daniel Moore: But just because you know, if you were a troublemaker in the marriage and you're the one that caused stuff or whatever, no one really deserves.
• 50:09
  Daniel Moore: You can't really say that anyone deserves for that kind of stuff to happen to them.
• 50:14
  Daniel Moore: But it comes down to a point where we have to definitely that keeping God in the relationship is so important.
• 50:24
  Michelle Moore: Well, and I think, at that time too, when you make that decision, you have to rewrite your story.
• 50:30
  Daniel Moore: Yeah.
• 50:31
  Michelle Moore: And you know, when you rewrite your story, that's when you have to let God do all the healing.
• 50:37
  Daniel Moore: Yeah.
• 50:38
  Michelle Moore: And that's where we moved forward too.
• 50:41
  Michelle Moore: Is we literally let God do the healing in our hearts?
• 50:44
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, we had to start from ground zero.
• 50:47
  Daniel Moore: We did.
• 50:48
  Daniel Moore: We started from scratch.
• 50:49
  Daniel Moore: It was literally a roller coaster and everything, including our finances, I mean, we were back down to trying to make it on bare minimum, just like it was when we first got married.
• 51:01
  Daniel Moore: It was almost like we just started completely over again.
• 51:04
  Michelle Moore: It was, and I'm sitting here smiling like we just started completely over again.
• 51:08
  Daniel Moore: it was, and I'm sitting here smiling you guys probably can't see it because I, literally, after that happened, god wiped away all that hate, that anger, the bitterness, everything that I had toward daniel and it was gone and how many years do you think that took you probably before you finally felt like you were completely released from that, because it didn't happen overnight we don't want anybody to think that no this is something that just happens overnight?
• 51:34
  Daniel Moore: Because it's not.
• 51:34
  Daniel Moore: It's something that has to take place gradually, as god works in the marriage between the two, as he works on each of us individually.
• 51:42
  Daniel Moore: There's a lot that goes on there, so how, how long do you guesstimate that?
• 51:47
  Daniel Moore: It probably took you.
• 51:49
  Michelle Moore: I think after we renewed our vows.
• 51:51
  Michelle Moore: You know it was.
• 51:54
  Daniel Moore: And where did we, where did we do that?
• 51:55
  Daniel Moore: I forgot about the XO.
• 51:57
  Daniel Moore: Talk about that.
• 51:57
  Michelle Moore: Well, actually we didn't renew our vows.
• 51:59
  Michelle Moore: We did the first time.
• 52:01
  Michelle Moore: That's right.
• 52:01
  Daniel Moore: We did it in our bedroom.
• 52:03
  Daniel Moore: We've renewed them several times, yeah bedroom.
• 52:08
  Michelle Moore: We've renewed them several times.
• 52:09
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, yeah, we renewed them in our bedroom and I I think you know that's when we really I mean, to be all honest, it was like a brand new marriage yeah it was the marriage starting.
• 52:16
  Michelle Moore: That should have been from the very beginning, yeah, and I think at that time we really I want to say that was in 2010.
• 52:28
  Daniel Moore: Around 2010.
• 52:29
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, and that's really I think 2010,.
• 52:32
  Michelle Moore: 2011 is really when I think God, just I mean, he worked my heart over.
• 52:39
  Daniel Moore: So that took a couple of years.
• 52:40
  Michelle Moore: Yeah, I mean it takes time, but the work was worth it.
• 52:43
  Michelle Moore: But you know the work was worth it.
• 52:45
  Michelle Moore: You know I mean for something, that I did something.
• 52:49
  Michelle Moore: You know because you had to trust me again and I'm sure that wasn't easy and I had to win your trust.
• 52:57
  Michelle Moore: Yeah.
• 52:58
  Michelle Moore: So I mean it was a hard road, but it was so worth it.
• 53:05
  Michelle Moore: And I'm telling you, god can heal any marriage If you allow Him to heal your heart and your spouse's heart.
• 53:12
  Michelle Moore: He can do that, because he did it for us.
• 53:16
  Michelle Moore: And I mean I can remember when we renewed our vows.
• 53:20
  Michelle Moore: I mean I cried, you cried, and it was just like it was amazing.
• 53:24
  Michelle Moore: I'm like it was just like 2002 when I married you, you know, and ever since then it's like it was amazing.
• 53:28
  Michelle Moore: I'm like it was just like 2002 when I married you, you know, and ever since then it's like we just invest.
• 53:34
  Michelle Moore: We invested in our marriage and our children's life at that time and I mean I can't really.
• 53:41
  Daniel Moore: And eventually we were introduced to the XO conference.
• 53:44
  Michelle Moore: Yes, by our good friends.
• 53:45
  Daniel Moore: Some good friends of ours.
• 53:46
  Daniel Moore: They had been going to that and so we went to that, and part of that conference again is renewing your vows.
• 53:54
  Michelle Moore: And I can remember crying because they got up on stage and talked about some raw stuff and I mean just about their marriages that they've walked through and everything.
• 54:03
  Michelle Moore: And you know, I mean I can't thank Scotty and Vicki enough for telling us to go to the XO and they had no idea.
• 54:13
  Michelle Moore: And, to be honest, dan and I never, have ever, told our testimony to anyone until what was it 2018?
• 54:25
  Michelle Moore: .
• 54:26
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, it's not been real long we.
• 54:28
  Michelle Moore: We told our testimony to our uh our life group yeah, and the first people we actually told was scotty and vicky, and you know, because we wanted to ask them.
• 54:40
  Michelle Moore: You know, what is it that you think?
• 54:41
  Michelle Moore: Do you think we could share this?
• 54:43
  Michelle Moore: You know, because one.
• 54:44
  Michelle Moore: It's embarrassing Like I have fought so much with shame and guilt and not feeling worthy for years because of what I did, and I it literally.
• 55:02
  Michelle Moore: If it wasn't for the Rise Up event, I don't think that I would be doing this podcast today.
• 55:09
  Michelle Moore: Wasn't for the rise up event, I don't think that I would be doing this podcast today, because I do worry, you know I don't anymore, but it's still in the back of my head that what is people going to think about me now?
• 55:16
  Michelle Moore: You know, and I mean, you say you've done stuff but at the same time, it's like you didn't do what I did.
• 55:22
  Michelle Moore: So but in all reality, we both crossed the line in our marriage whether who did what it.
• 55:30
  Michelle Moore: You know, and that's where we both came to realize it's like dan has made me feel much better as a, as a wife, of the fact of not blaming me constantly about what I did.
• 55:43
  Michelle Moore: And you know, we we've talked about it and in all reality, we've left it in the past.
• 55:49
  Michelle Moore: Like you know, we don't talk about it and in fact when he asked me about this podcast, I was like oh gosh, you know I have to talk about what I did.
• 56:00
  Michelle Moore: But you know that's what our testimonies are for is really to help other people walk through stuff and pray them through, because if we can make it, we know that other couples out there can make it.
• 56:12
  Daniel Moore: Yeah, and you have to understand a sin is a sin, it does not matter what it is.
• 56:20
  Daniel Moore: We can in our own minds we can think, oh well, that's way worse than what I did.
• 56:25
  Daniel Moore: Or have all these different levels of where sin takes place or whatever.
• 56:30
  Daniel Moore: I will admit, psychologically and emotionally, there are things that are worse than others that you can do to a person.
• 56:37
  Daniel Moore: I totally understand that and I get it, but in God's eyes it does not matter.
• 56:42
  Daniel Moore: Sin is sin, regardless of what you do and we all have to ask forgiveness for any of that and regardless of what you did within our marriage or regardless of what I did to you in our marriage.
• 56:54
  Daniel Moore: We have to come to the point and both realize that, regardless of what it is, if we're both willing to forgive each other and we're both willing to put god back into the middle of this, that's when we start pleading the blood over our marriage.
• 57:08
  Daniel Moore: At that point, and what happens?
• 57:09
  Daniel Moore: When that blood is pleaded over things?
• 57:11
  Daniel Moore: God never sees that anymore.
• 57:13
  Daniel Moore: All he sees is Jesus' blood.
• 57:15
  Daniel Moore: At that point, those sins are put away to never be remembered ever again.
• 57:20
  Daniel Moore: And if we're going to be Christ-like and we're going to live in Christ's image and that example that he portrayed when he was here on earth.
• 57:27
  Daniel Moore: We have to be willing to put those things behind us also and not look back.
• 57:31
  Daniel Moore: And that's probably the best way that I can explain of why I'm where I'm at today with you and I think you probably agree that that's where you're at as well and, as Michelle said, never think that your marriage is too far gone.
• 57:49
  Daniel Moore: I know that some of you out there listening you may be one of those that's at that breaking point and you're thinking there is no way I would ever give that person another chance in my entire life.
• 58:01
  Daniel Moore: I just if you're thinking that, I just for myself I just ask you to step back for a moment and really pray about that, really bring God into the middle of that situation and determine God, can you do this with me or can you not do this with me, because we can't do it on our own?
• 58:22
  Michelle Moore: No.
• 58:22
  Daniel Moore: And if we try to do it on our own, that becomes selfish.
• 58:25
  Daniel Moore: That's where we start putting self into the equation and I know that in some situations if there's abuse and you know really bad things that are happening, I understand some things have to be done at those points.
• 58:38
  Daniel Moore: But if your story is similar to mine and Michelle's story, don't give up hope.
• 58:45
  Michelle Moore: No.
• 58:46
  Daniel Moore: I mean, there's no reason to give up hope.
• 58:48
  Daniel Moore: You know I what I thought?
• 58:49
  Daniel Moore: I I'm actually shocked that I'm sitting here with her today if I really sit here and think about it, because I can literally think back to that day.
• 58:56
  Daniel Moore: We walked through that apartment looking at it.
• 58:58
  Daniel Moore: I never would have thought I was going to be here at this point.
• 59:01
  Daniel Moore: I thought I thought it was over, but god had different, a different story for us, and I'm so thankful for that.
• 59:11
  Michelle Moore: And he's created.
• 59:11
  Michelle Moore: I'm so madly in love with Dan, it's not even funny.
• 59:25
  Michelle Moore: Like the love that God created in my heart was a love that I didn't even know existed for a husband and a wife, Just because I never experienced it in my first marriage and the beginning of our marriage.
• 59:30
  Michelle Moore: And he truly is, you know, my best friend, and you know I do have like a couple of best friends, but I would prefer to spend my whole time with Dan than I would anybody, and I mean he is someone that I absolutely love inside and out yeah and you have to have that kind of love because you know, after all, that you know our kids my father was murdered and was gave us and gave me an opportunity to talk to him because of what I walked through and what he went through.
• 1:00:06
  Michelle Moore: And you know, our kids graduated and Brooke went off to college, jake joined the military, jeremiah joined the military and it kind of left us and it was funny because a lot of people when they get left as an empty nester, it's like starting all over again.
• 1:00:22
  Michelle Moore: But for us, oh my gosh, we loved it, like it was every day was so much fun and we just we enjoyed it so much and we were so in love with each other.
• 1:00:32
  Michelle Moore: It was just like, you know, it's like being married in your 20s all over again, yeah, and then, you know, then I had some health issues and you really truly have to love, you have love for somebody.
• 1:00:45
  Michelle Moore: When you go through some major health issues, you have to take your vows very seriously.
• 1:00:54
  Daniel Moore: You do, and someday down the road we'll probably talk about all that stuff.
• 1:00:58
  Daniel Moore: Yes, and that's going to be some future episodes.
• 1:01:01
  Daniel Moore: You guys have something to look forward to.
• 1:01:03
  Daniel Moore: Michelle and I have been through a lot.
• 1:01:04
  Daniel Moore: I will say that right up front.
• 1:01:06
  Michelle Moore: But look at us now, that's right.
• 1:01:07
  Daniel Moore: It takes a lot.
• 1:01:08
  Daniel Moore: I will say that right up front.
• 1:01:08
  Daniel Moore: But look at us now.
• 1:01:08
  Daniel Moore: That's right.
• 1:01:08
  Daniel Moore: It takes a godly love to get where we're at.
• 1:01:12
  Daniel Moore: There's a love between a man and a woman and I think a lot of times people look at it as that's just a connection between the two of us, but in all reality there is that third person involved and that's God, and that love that we have for each other has to be a godly type of love.
• 1:01:29
  Daniel Moore: You can never fail when you allow your love to be that way between each other, when you include God right in the middle of it, and that's the way that it needs to be.
• 1:01:38
  Daniel Moore: So we're going to go ahead and leave the testimony where it's at at this point.
• 1:01:43
  Daniel Moore: We are going to be starting our series this next week the Four Laws of Love and Michelle's going to be sitting through that series with me.
• 1:01:53
  Daniel Moore: I do not know how long it'll take, because we're going to do the series justice and we want to really have some good, serious discussion about the different laws of love that it takes to manifest inside of your marriage and to accomplish having that godly marriage that God intended for us to have, believe it or not.
• 1:02:12
  Daniel Moore: There's a roadmap in the Bible for the type of marriage that we're supposed to have, and if we follow that roadmap, you don't go through stuff like we just discussed here over this last hour.
• 1:02:22
  Daniel Moore: You can bypass all of that heartache and all of those problems and all of those issues, not to say that Satan doesn't come up against you and fight you.
• 1:02:30
  Daniel Moore: He will probably even harder than ever, because he does not want a godly love between a man and a wife.
• 1:02:36
  Daniel Moore: If he can bust the marriage up, then he's accomplished.
• 1:02:39
  Daniel Moore: The one thing that he wants to accomplish because that's what's so close to God's heart is that marriage commitment that we have, and so Satan's always going after families.
• 1:02:49
  Daniel Moore: That's what makes up the church, and so we will be going through that series here, and so I hope you guys will be looking forward to that, and Michelle has one more thing here to add, and then I think we'll call it good for this week.
• 1:03:04
  Michelle Moore: Actually, I was just going to ask Call it good for this week.
• 1:03:06
  Michelle Moore: Actually, I was just going to ask.
• 1:03:07
  Michelle Moore: I felt like, if you wouldn't mind saying a prayer in this podcast just for marriages and for anybody walking through what we've walked through, that it reaches them.
• 1:03:19
  Daniel Moore: Yep, we can do that, and I just ask too for all of you listeners out there that has a good, solid prayer life, if you would pray along with us as well.
• 1:03:28
  Daniel Moore: Our whole intention with this and I know there's a few people that's really asked us are you sure you want to share that?
• 1:03:35
  Daniel Moore: Why would you share a story like you guys have for the whole world to hear and Michelle kind of hit on it a little bit earlier it's not an easy thing to do.
• 1:03:43
  Daniel Moore: None of us like to admit that we screwed up and made a mess of something and something that's supposed.
• 1:03:49
  Daniel Moore: I don't want to say marriage is simple, but it's something that people deal with every day.
• 1:03:53
  Daniel Moore: There's marriages all over the place.
• 1:03:54
  Daniel Moore: You know where people are trying to make this thing work and we're all walking this walk and when you fail at that it can really feel like a big failure and it's not something you just want to broadcast to everybody.
• 1:04:07
  Daniel Moore: But you know what God's brought us to where we're at now.
• 1:04:09
  Daniel Moore: It's only by God's grace that her and I are still married and that we actually love each other more than we ever have, and we really feel like that.
• 1:04:19
  Daniel Moore: There's a lot of you out there that's probably struggling with the exact stuff that we just talked about.
• 1:04:23
  Daniel Moore: You're going through that right now and if there's anything that we can do with our testimony, that's the reason that you know, when God redeems us and he takes us back and helps us work through things and we have a miracle because this is a miracle that you're witnessing here between Michelle and I we have to share that.
• 1:04:41
  Daniel Moore: We have to give God the glory for what he's done in our marriage, and that's exactly what we're doing with this, and we're going to utilize this testimony as we get into the series, and we're going to tie a lot of stuff into all of that and hopefully, through all of this, you'll have a better marriage yourself.
• 1:04:57
  Daniel Moore: Even if you've got a good marriage now, I think you're going to have an even better marriage once we get through this series, and so that's what we're looking forward to.
• 1:05:04
  Daniel Moore: So we're going to go ahead and we will wrap up here with prayer for this week and we'll call it good until next week.
• 1:05:12
  Daniel Moore: Lord, we just come before you right now.
• 1:05:13
  Daniel Moore: We thank you for this opportunity, lord, for us to share the testimony that you have given us.
• 1:05:18
  Daniel Moore: God.
• 1:05:19
  Daniel Moore: Lord, when we have a testimony, you want us to tell other people that, because we want to see you do that testimony over again in someone else's life.
• 1:05:28
  Daniel Moore: God, we know that you ordained marriage.
• 1:05:30
  Daniel Moore: It was a sacred connection between two people that you ordained from the very beginning.
• 1:05:35
  Daniel Moore: It's up to us to make it work, and we do that by keeping you in the middle of our marriages.
• 1:05:41
  Daniel Moore: And, god, I just ask for anyone out there today that may be struggling with their marriage right now.
• 1:05:46
  Daniel Moore: Maybe they're going through the same exact stuff that Michelle and I have just discussed.
• 1:05:49
  Daniel Moore: Maybe it's something that they consider to be worse and they just really don't see any way to turn it around and make that marriage work.
• 1:05:56
  Daniel Moore: God, I just ask right now that you would speak to them individually where they're at right now, lord.
• 1:06:01
  Daniel Moore: Just speak your encouragement into them, speak your peace over their marriage.
• 1:06:06
  Daniel Moore: God, show them that you are there, let them feel your presence to know that they are not alone.
• 1:06:11
  Daniel Moore: And, god, if we put our eyes upon you and we keep looking forward, we can do anything through Christ, who strengthens us, and I'm so thankful, lord, that you came in and rescued Michelle and I in the middle of all the destruction, the chaos that we had in our marriage and in our life.
• 1:06:30
  Daniel Moore: You got right in the middle of it and you came in and you helped us through all of that.
• 1:06:35
  Daniel Moore: You turned it around and you redeemed that love once again that we had for each other and made it better than ever, and I thank you for that.
• 1:06:44
  Daniel Moore: I just pray a special blessing over everyone that's listening this week and I thank you for it.
• 1:06:49
  Daniel Moore: In Jesus' name.
• 1:06:50
  Daniel Moore: We pray Amen.
• 1:06:52
  Daniel Moore: Well, we're going to call it good for this week.
• 1:06:54
  Daniel Moore: Thank you guys for listening.
• 1:06:56
  Daniel Moore: Next week we'll be back with our first installment of our series on the four laws of love.
• 1:07:01
  Daniel Moore: Hope you guys have a blessed week and until then, don't forget that God's word never fails us.
• 1:07:06
  Daniel Moore: God's word has stood the test of time.
• 1:07:08
  Daniel Moore: Enter Jesus' death on the cross.
• 1:07:10
  Daniel Moore: He has connected the gap.
• 1:07:13
  Michelle Moore: Bye guys.
• 1:07:14
  Daniel Moore: Talk to you guys next week.
• 1:07:16
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• 1:07:18
  Aria: In this world, there are many disconnects that cause chaos in our lives.
• 1:07:22
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