Latest / A Level Playing Field / Replacing Eva Olid: Andy Thomson's new era at Hearts I A Level Playing Field I Episode 29

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Replacing Eva Olid: Andy Thomson's new era at Hearts I A Level Playing Field I Episode 29 · A Level Playing Field

• 0:00
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• 0:06
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• 0:23
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• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to a level playing field and Cheryl Smith joined as ever by Alison McConnell.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Also joining us today is Hearts Manager Andy Thompson.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Andy, thank you so much for giving us a bit of your time.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's the first time we've had a chance to meet you since you took over at Hearts in the summer.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it'll be good to get a chat with you and for people to find out just a bit more about you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to it myself.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully we can discuss a few subjects that people want to listen to and really hope to put um the heart's point of view across as well, also myself and how I work and how we get the best out of the players.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely we'll get to the to the hearts side of things and a few other things as well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: But first of all, could you just for people who maybe don't know, where did your football journey begin way back when?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: I know you were a player and you played for 19 years in various different clubs, but way back at the beginning, where did your your love of football begin?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um grew up in Mullabill and played for local boys' club as you did back then, Jervison.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um you'd play all the time and you'd train.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was no coaching back then.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was just go and play, go and learn how to play the game yourself.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Learn against bigger, stronger, quicker players.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think probably we've lost that in the game these days.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Too much coaching, overcoaching, that's why we've no good creative, intelligent footballers.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's down to the coaching that's happened over the years.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So back then it was just guys who would volunteer to take the teams and absolutely brilliant, and and you learned how to play football as an individual and your decision making came for that.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um you'd play for the school, you play for your boys' club, you'd play for the boys' brigades, you just play football, but it'd be freedom, it was fun and enjoyable, but also challenging, and that shapes you in a certain way that when you do become a footballer later in life, it's it's down to you.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was a great experience as a as a young player playing playing against guys who are older and quicker and just learning how to make your own decisions and for there I just graduated.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then went to Murrow when I was 10, signed a schoolboy signing, which probably you don't remember.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Umlison does.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I did tied you to that club and I was there for six, seven years.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Never felt I was going to be a player at that point, never felt as if I was going to become a professional.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Stayed on at school, didn't do the YTS, and then asked to be released by Mill, and then made my way to Queen of the South.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: They got a couple injuries and uh forward positions, put me up there, scored a goal in the first two games, and made a career out of being a goal scorer by accident more than anything.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I had a long career at different clubs and different sort of countries and different levels, and absolutely loved it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whole host of different experiences, plenty of people with different backgrounds and cultures, and the main thing about football is the people you meet and experiences, everything.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody thinks it's about actual games.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: You don't remember that when you get a wee bit older, you just remember the people and and how good the experience was, and had a brilliant time doing it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite interesting.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about the coaching and the maybe young players coming through now that are overcoached, but do you see a difference in the women's game?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've m you've maybe still got different layers of coaching, particularly uh in the last couple of years of players coming through that they maybe never had access to the same intense coaching that the way that you see kids now from a very, very young age are coached.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see a difference that there is more creativity maybe in the the women's side?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think there's actually less creativity.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a biggest issue I see in the women's side is is players don't have the freedom to make their own decisions.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think the coaches overcoach, and a big part of my coaching philosophy is for players to make the decisions.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'll educate them on different options, and you may have three or four answers to a certain issue.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: You decide on the pitch.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where we lack in Scotland, especially, is people like that, players who can go and make their own decisions.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's always looking to the sidelines, always looking for guidance from the coach.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do in this moment?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: When you're on the pitch of no time, you have to make the decisions yourself, and it's something I'm really, really big on at heart, is giving the players the freedom and the ability to make better decisions, and it's down to them.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, if I was looking at women's football, I think probably it's developed over the last 10-15 years and has exploded.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you look at the coaching that's it's sort of been happening over the times, it's been a possession type game where it's just non-directional, and if you keep the ball, you're getting awarded.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we don't have creative players because you're getting awarded for playing back the way, getting awarded for playing sideways.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we we have to have more um thought process and how we design our coaching sessions to allow the players to become better decision makers.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: How have the players responded to that?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would imagine it might be quite a big cultural shift for them for somebody to say, right, stop looking to me for direction.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: You guys now need to take the responsibility, and you maybe need to, it's maybe when you see what leaders you've got that come to the fore on the pitch.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Again, great insight there.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably gone through one extreme to another, and they had a um very positional-based coach over the past four years who probably dictated what they'd done and got success out of it, and that's what I'm saying.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a right or wrong way, it's just whatever the coach decides.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: My way's totally different from what it was previously.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: The players have been absolutely brilliant, they've responded really, really well to it, but there's obvious issues because it doesn't you haven't you haven't got to have the time to get the decisions right straight away, so there'll be moments where you get it wrong, that's fine.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you get it wrong, it's my fault because I've not educated you well enough.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the short space of time I've been in, it's been a seamless transition for where they were to what they've now got with our coach, different staff, different players, different squad.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot younger squad, but they've been absolutely brilliant and tenant on board.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't always get it right, but I don't criticise them for that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: As I say, when they get it wrong, that's my fault, and we'll go over it and try and find better solutions for them.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: How has your coaching style changed, or has it changed from when you switched from men's coaching into the into the women's game for the first time?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Is there did you have to make adjustments?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Did you feel that you had to make adjustments?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hugely.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um had no experience in the women's game when I first got involved with the strength international team.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's why probably Shelley wanted me to get in there because I had no pre-conceived ideas or or bias towards players and pretty honest in my opinions on things.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Too honest was my first take on that with uh my first experience with a team.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I had to sort of think about how I communicated things and took your time before you say them, and also how you maybe have a laugh and a joke and be careful what you're saying because people look at differently.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think the biggest thing was just taking your time to think what you said before saying it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: In the men's game, some of them just don't listen to you, no honesty.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: In the women's game, they'll listen to everything you say and they'll remember, and um they're really um diligent and listening to what you say and then putting it into plays in terms of tactically, but probably too much.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it has to be context to it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm saying something, there's maybe a different context to it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was a wee bit difficult in the beginning, but I found my my way by probably just taking my time and realising how to communicate differently with them.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's really interesting.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Sort of the different dynamics of dealing with men every day and dealing with women every day.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's an emotional side to things, I would suspect.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Huge.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's just a learning curve for me as well.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the key thing is still to be authentic.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of just totally change and become something you know because the players see through that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really honest with them, um, but also made sure at times that I was aware of how I was saying things.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm never somebody that projects much emotions and they maybe look at it differently if I'm saying it in a certain way.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to be really careful how I put my point across and understand that um in the women's game, people think differently and react differently to their communication because they do listen to everything you say.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Did you surprise yourself going into women's tool?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Usually, I had no interest in being in her.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had no interest in being an assistant either.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more natural leader, more natural um decision maker.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't he want to be an assistant and somebody asked me who I knew when I was doing my licence?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shelley's looking for somebody at Stalin Yune's assistant.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to speak to her?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be considered for it?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, nah, no chance.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh go and speak to her, and I went to speak to her, and it was pretty clear that we got on well together, pretty clear that we could work really well together by no agreeing, by having different opinions, but then me supporting her as well was the key.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that was probably the best decision I made because I realised then as an assistant how you approach things and and what you want in assistance as well.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned a different way of working and became a better manager eventually because of being an assistant.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: What was the difference then when you went into the international setup?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I can imagine that's wildly different to club football.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: You're not there every day, and I think maybe the job's a bit different.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: What was what was that like?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Huge difference.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're only seeing the players for, I don't know, ten days and they play differently at their clubs, and we're asking maybe as well, we play different positions and a different style of football.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing for maybe the top teams in the English Premiership, and you've got the ball all the time.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're then playing against the top ten teams in the world, and we're not going to have the ball.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So try to convince them this is the way we need to do it, is difficult.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, international football is probably the most difficult job you can get, um, and it challenged me in so many ways because you can only change them tactically in three, four sessions.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to try and think about in that short term that the information you're giving them to help them within the game.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the key thing for international football was it was getting the team right.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you get the team right and the right characteristics and the right personalities in it, they then play naturally and you've got a better chance of getting success.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: But as a as a real challenge for them to international football, I would really, really recommend if the if the opportunity comes up, take it.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it and probably my best experiences in football were working for the national team.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: How'd you reflect on that tournament that 2019 World Cup, the first time that Scotland had ever got there?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you'd all this euphoria and the build-up to it, massive interest here at home, and then you know, maybe the way it it went just you know maybe soard a wee bit.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think first of all, the players and the staff, Shelley especially, didn't he get enough credit for qualifying for that?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one team.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think there was eight groups and only the top seed qualified for it, so there was no second chance at it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: We got lucky in a way that we get probably the weakest uh top seeds of Switzerland, but a top, top team.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um Poland were third seeds, I think.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Really difficult game.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Five of the games um I think they won seven out of eight, and five of the games were either drawn or get or lose in the twenty-twenty-five minutes to go, and they found a way to win games.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't deserve to be losing or drawn, but they were.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: They found a way through mindset, through substitutions, through a well-m desire to get there.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So to get there was was a real um triumph for everybody.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get there you play against England, who were fourth maybe, Japan, who maybe were sixth in the world, and Argentina, totally different game.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Against England, I felt we started really well.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: VER was the first tournament, which which was difficult to understand how they can introduce it in a World Cup.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't have done that with the men, um, and the decisions that came in the games through VAR were were hard to understand.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was never an advocate of VER before that and still know.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that made it worse.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought we performed well in England game, we performed well against Japan.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: But our whole remit was to was to try and beat Argentina because we knew that three points would get us through, and we knew that goal difference against England and Japan.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: We came there with the best well in the way in the world.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we want to win this game, we want to be really competitive, and we were against the top teams in the world.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: We only lost by one goal, and we big Brazil by one goal, so we were always competitive.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I get in the Argentina game, it was we win this game, we will qualify, and it's that's what we're here to do.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we then get 3-0 up.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did we deserve to be 3-0?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Probably no.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Deserved to be in the lead, maybe two.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then after that, people forget about how the game went, they just obviously look at outcome and you look at 3-3 and 15 minutes to go and you threw it away.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Argentina had no real opportunities apart from the ones who scored.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: People go tactically naive, watch the game back, it's so far from it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the moments went against it, and that's not an excuse.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: The moments went against us, and um then the narrative for that was it was it was the staff's fault and the players' fault.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the moments that go against you and momentum.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Turned, and then they had two or three opportunities they scored for, and really difficult to recover for that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mentally takes you a long time, the staff and players.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the biggest thing that I took for that was how the game didn't kick on as a women's game in Scotland.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was a real opportunity to really focus on the positives, and we didn't.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: We focused on the wrong stuff and we used to focus to build the game, build success on the basis of that, build success on the basis of the Euros before that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's time for our player of the week, sponsored by Nutmeg Magazine, the home of brilliant football stories.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Check out the latest issue at Nutmeg Magazine.co.uk.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: This week's player of the week, sponsored by Nutmeg, goes to Libby Smith for her perfect hat trick against Montrose.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that follows on from last weekend's Perfect Heart Trick in Cup Duty against Comar Nux.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So back to back, perfect hat tricks, not a bad feat.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: That was our Nutmeg Magazine Player of the Week.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: For more great football writing and to order the latest issue, visit Nutmeg Magazine.co.uk.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: How difficult is it being the sidelines when you see that game just getting away from you when you're three now up and you just sense the momentum shift and you feel impotent from the position that you're in?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been involved in the game a long, long time, and people will tell you there is games where momentum changes shifts, and no matter what you try and do, uh there's it's really difficult to change a big crowd to the game.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: The crowd got behind Argentina because there were underdogs and they were three down, and and you could hear that the the noise change and momentum changing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but we talked pre-match that the game plan was game management.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about when you go one, three, four, five, nil on the game.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt the players did that as well.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know people look at it differently.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think that we lost any tactical shape, and we tried to keep the two behind the ball.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: We had changes we had to make as well.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of players were injured, and some of the players on the bench were injured, it was difficult.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I just felt it was it was the momentum went their way.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if I objectively analyze that game and go, what would you change?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's not much because tactically, as I say, there was two, it was a it was a breakaway if you're a corner, it was a long-range shot, and it was a penalty kick.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: This got thing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: The rest of the game they managed it well.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just everybody focuses on the outcome, and that was a really disappointing thing for us.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all obviously gutted on that and really difficult to come back to that.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously the subsequent fallout and the the aftermath of it, how tough was all of that?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's just part of football where stuff that that happens is is maybe focusing on the wrong things.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's we just focused on the on the football side of things, and and that's the hardest thing to overcome as a footballer.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's whatever happens elsewhere, it's football's the key and disappointing how it ended, and hopefully it was something that the the national team can go back to and experience this the stuff that we experienced in terms of getting to the World Cup and facing really good challenges, and I'm hoping the team at the minute can get down that route again.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting that you mentioned about you know, as a nation we didn't use that momentum and build on it because we talk about that a lot and we've talked about it with a lot of different people in the game.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: But from your point of view, where do you think we went wrong with that and not making that a catalyst for what could have came after it?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a difficult one for me because I'm just the coach side of things, it's just looking from the outside in.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see his kicking on for there.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see any benefits from the game, I know, maybe financially, but if you look at the national team for there, they've probably regressed.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe fine moments have gone against them, but I'm home in the minute that the the manager and the staff can can help the players to get to this World Cup.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But overall, that's down the other people we look at outside of things.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just looked at from a football point of view, and and it didn't really feel as if we we used that opportunity to to improve the game and improve the the young players coming through.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe it's changing at the minute.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I see more young players getting opportunities in the in the top league, and and that eventually will be um good for the the national team.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then obviously you made the move to Rangers alongside Joe Potter.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: How did that uh how did that all come about?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: What was that like going in there?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd left the national team and I went to my local club to work Millerwell and had a brilliant experience in that, but I was missing the the football side and the coaching side.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then Joe's assistant left and and they they advertised for a position.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I knew the managing director, worked from the SFA, and that started the conversation there.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was actually me going to Dame to say I'd be interested in it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was an open interview process, and and I got it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: When they say I was Joe's Joe's choice, um, but that's just life, but worked really well there, different way of working, Joe.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um again I've worked with Joe and Leanne and Shelley and three different characters in different ways, and that's good for me to understand how I need to sit beside them and and change how I work.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um loved it.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Great club, um, really good players, good environment.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Club looks after players really well and a good time there.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was only briefly for I don't know, two or three months Joe was there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then obviously Leanne came in, you say obviously you worked with her.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: What what was she like to work with as you're her assistant?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh she she comes in as she's the manager, but what was that like?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: What was that dynamic like between the two of you?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you'd obviously would have worked together in a different dynamic in the national team, she would have been a player and you'd have been an assistant.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was a good thing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had uh um prior connection with Leanne that I knew how she was as a player and how driven she was, how passionate she was about um getting the best out of players and staff and people and knew that we would work well together.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you never know until you start how it's got to go.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then we we as soon as she came in, we we we hit it off and I she allowed me to do loads of the stuff and she focused on the managing side and I'd done the the coaching side and eventually she found her way into the the management side and and got the balance really right and just thought we we worked well together and the partnership was good and we were pretty successful in how and how we done it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Were you kind of itching at that time though, even though you enjoyed that experience at Rangers?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Were you itching to be a number one you wanted to be you know back in charge somewhere?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had a brilliant time as an assistant, and even though I'm not a natural assistant, I really enjoyed it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had loads of freedom to go and do whatever I want at Rangers and also the national team as well.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the people I worked with, the head coaches, were brilliant at giving me the freedom to go and work how I wanted to work.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um they would make the ultimate decisions, absolutely, but they gave me great freedom in that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So found a role that I really enjoyed and had no interest in in leaving and then the opportunity to come up for hearts, and I was just a no brainer at that point, but it wasn't something I was chasing.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's obviously it's quite unusual.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: It does happen, but it's quite unusual in football to go into a job off the back of a successful manager, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Times out of ten, someone's been someone's been sacked, or there's not been a lot of success.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: But obviously, you went in there off the back of a historic season for hearts when in the league and you've evolved Olived, obviously leaving.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Was that was that a bit different, do you think?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just probably different for other folk, as you say, it's unusual, but I never considered that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I might have possibly put some folk off to thinking that was a job for them, but didn't it for me?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's just a different challenge, and I know the people at hearts really well.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I knew what their um programme was going to be about.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Loads of rumours that they were getting the part-time route and it was getting cut.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I heard all the rumours, I knew it wasn't true, I knew what they were trying to do, and that aligned with my thinking on how to best have a program that is sustainable and also uses your academy, and also brings through your young academy players to make sure that they get a chance to play, but also improve the national team.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for me it was it was a pretty easy decision.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, they won the league, absolutely amazing, thoroughly deserved it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't come in my thinking it was how can I go there and help the club and help the players with the way I work and I felt the partnership between myself and and the the club was was really aligned, and that's why I went there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: How what have you learned about being manager in your own right and how uh uh has there been any surprises for you since taking over or or has it gone as you would have anticipated?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably went better, but I anticipated uh simply because they did have a certain way of playing that I didn't um think was right for me, so I've changed it and I thought it would take more time.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Players have been brilliant, um but also helps that the young players have come in and bring a real freshness and a real desire to to learn with them.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I've got some senior players there, um Lorne Wade and Maddie Fulton who drive real good standards there, good people, but they support the players.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's probably gone better than what I'd have thought at this point.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'd been four weeks into it and we were into the the European invention against Gintra and Koga and think this is going to be tough because we've had four weeks to work on it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You try to coincide that with your fitness type of thing, so try to get your tactical work in takes a bit of time, and you're changing fit one style to another.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the players have been so open to it, and as I said, uh live seameness in the transition is is probably the way I describe it, and and that's down to probably the environment that was created before me as well.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a real supportive environment from the club.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a real good supporter staff around the the whole club.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably uh a club that's together with both the men's and the women's side, and um that's been shown in in the way that they've they've adapted to the way I work.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been really impressed by not just the players and the staff, but everybody around towns.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: How tough was that going in and you'd lost half a squad?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: If not more, actually.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think we lost eight players and replaced them with three, and as I say, bringing in our younger players, which is a choice as well, and I knew that, so I wasn't getting in there complaining, that's why I went there to give the young players an opportunity to play.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um to get in to play gym, so I was unsure how it would go.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: We had won with two pre-season games before that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: We played Spartans and we played Glasgow City.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even though they were friendlies and it was pre-season, that gave me a great belief that things were going to be okay.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: The Jintra game was the game that we had to win, so we were under probably huge pressure, which I put them under because I wanted to make sure they realised this is their opportunity to be rewarded for last year for the hard work they put in, and we had opportunity to stay in the Europa League and deserve to beat Gintra.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: We then played the Danish champs, and I watched five minutes of the warm-up, and I thought, I've seen enough, this has got to be tough.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can analyse teams, you can watch them, it's not until we see them in the flesh, you go they're good.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: First five minutes were a struggle, but my players were brilliant after that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Followed the game plan excellently, got in the lead, had a wee bit of work, held out, and we conceded two goals to the Commonwealth.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: They deserve to win the game, but my players come out with great credit against a really good team, and uh that gave us a strong belief that we're on the right road when we're not there, but knowing that we've got a real opportunity to build on that and continually improve.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no team who's won back-to-back titles in the the SWPL prior to to Covid, and maybe just reflecting how competitive that league is and how many teams challenge.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: But do you sense a different kind of pressure this season among the players between chasing a title and defending a title?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't feel any pressure, absolutely no.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different um way of working we've got as well, with younger players in the squad and and look to make sure that they get gain time and and then combine that with the the analytics side to to bring in some good players, but there's no pressure.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I did use that in my first meeting with them that no teams won it back to back.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, how are we going to um face that challenge and with different players?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So referenced last year, talked about how well we've done, but after that we forget about it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you're no champions, you're then now looking to to building last year, and hopefully we can create a real strong atmosphere to to maximise everything we've got, but no pressure to go and replicate last year's amazing um win for them.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we're looking ahead to this this game, the Capitol Cup game that's going to be played at Easter Road against Hearts and a Derby, and it just it brings just focus onto the game, the fact that it's at the stadium and it's this this derby game and all those things that come around it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: How you how are you looking forward to that one?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I guess playing Easter Roads just a bit different from Middle Banking.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have to be honest, I'm no thought about it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: The League of kindly gave us Glasgow City and Hibs in between real society.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um I don't know who thought of the planning in that one.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've made my feelings clear on that one.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think as champions we've we are representing the league, and how can we be in the best possible condition to go and do that and then recover to go and play against Glasgow City, probably one of the best teams in the league, and then against your biggest rivals.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's possibly unfair.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think we should be supporting our teams a wee bit more.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know these things can happen, but um Hibs is at the back of my mind at the minute, but probably next week when we recover for Society, it'll be a brilliant experience for the players to go and play at Easterwood.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know I think they won there last year, um, and again they've changed quite a lot of their players, it'll be different for them, but really looking forward to the challenge of going there and replicating last year's result and performance.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's definitely not at the forefront of my mind at the minute.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the the games coming up will be tough enough.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, first focus is Spartans and Sociad on on Wednesday.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: How, when you mentioned there about the the league being supportive and the difficult fixtures that you've got, ideally, what would you have liked?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Would you have wanted a free weekend prior to the Socierdad game?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how that works, Alison, but I know when we went to play Chintra, we were given the opportunity to um postpone our game against Rangers, but both clubs um have to agree to that, and both clubs didn't agree to it, which is fine, everybody needs to look after their own um position, so no complaints on that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: These are the kind of games where you see real growth in players when you're exposed to this kind of level.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we look back to the Juntre game and uh Koga game, that's what happened.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was um we brought on 16-year-old Tony Campbell in that game.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: She was playing against our top-class wide player, and she had a couple of difficult moments, but moments where she'd done really, really well, and that's the model for us.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Give her young players opportunities these games, and you only become better, or you've got an opportunity to become better by using the experiences of playing against better players, and and that's been then pivotal for Tony's development over the last four or five weeks.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: We had a 15-year-old come into the squad two weeks ago, we've had a 16-year-old score a couple of goals, and these are the games that really drive your development, but also the games against uh the teams in the league will give them a real opportunity to improve.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: But these are the games that can really really drive your your development.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Just before we finish up, can I just ask you who was your biggest influence in football when you were coming through as a player and and as a coach?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Who did you look to?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Probably nobody.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you'd only see the occasional bit of TV and the coaches you had were guys who were the coaches, it was just volunteers, so that's why you had to be an independent self-thinker, and that's why you become a better decision maker and intelligent.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: But my hero growing up is Kenny Dougleish, he's probably the best player I've ever seen playing, especially for Scotland.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And but I wouldn't say there was MD really I looked up to and and and helped me along the way, it was just playing for your yourself and becoming a better player is through your own self-development.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Probably is another answer you wanted, yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: But Kenny Douglas is a pretty good answer.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, listen, it's been great to speak to, and I think it'll be for everyone listening, I think it'll be really good for them to just get a wee insight into you.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because as I said at the start, it's the first time we've had a chance to talk to you since you came into the into the job.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: But um, best of luck with Europe and and everything this season, and thanks so much for