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Andy Storch: How to Use Your Book to Build a Business · The Daily Writer

0:12
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Saturday edition of the Daily Rider Podcast.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Here on the Saturday edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: For more, you can visit us at dailyriderlife.com.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, of course, if you have been listening to this show any length of time, you know that we talk about books quite a bit here on this podcast because, I mean, after all, this is a writing podcast, and books are a natural part of that world.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: But what happens after you write the book?
0:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, writing and releasing a book is only half the battle, and in a sense, your journey has only just begun when you release that book.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, I am super pumped to bring you this fun conversation with a good friend of mine who's going to give us lots of great insights into marketing your book as well as how to build a business with that book.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: His name is Andy Storch, and he is the author of Own Your Career, Own Your Life, Stop Drifting, and Take Control of Your Future.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: And this is honestly one of the best professional and personal development books I have read in a long time.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: Andy teaches you how to own your career, take responsibility, do networking the right way, and a lot of other key habits and practices that will make you successful.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, when we recorded this episode back in November, that was actually the one year anniversary of him releasing this book, which was really, really fun to be able to celebrate that with him.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Andy's also a consultant, coach, speaker, and facilitator specializing in the talent development space.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: Andy's also the host of three podcasts.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: And yes, you heard me write three podcasts.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: The talent development hot seat, own your career, own your life, and my NFT Journey.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: And if that were not enough, Andy also heads up the talent development think tank conference and community.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: I first got to know Andy in the Total Life Freedom community, which you probably recall hearing me talk about a few times.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: That is honestly a running theme with some of my podcast guests is I've met so many cool people through that community, headed up by the amazing Vincent Puglisi.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And uh a lot of my guests on the show have come from my connections with that community.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: I gotta tell you, Andy is the real deal.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: He is kind, he's generous, he's brilliant, he's positive, he's a great connector, and he's the kind of person who will help you succeed in life just because you spend time with him.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: It is literally impossible for you to have a conversation with Andy and not feel better about yourself, your future, and your potential.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: So that's just the kind of guy that Andy is, and I love talking with him.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: So in this conversation, I got to pick Andy's brain on the income streams that he has related to his book and how he's used those income streams and his book to build his business as well as some of his marketing strategies.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: This was a really fun conversation, and I took a ton of notes, and I know that you're gonna learn a ton as well.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: So let's get right to the conversation with my good friend Andy Storch.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: Andy Storch, welcome to the Daily Writer Podcast.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: This is, I think, your second or third appearance.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: So congrats.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: I I guess congratulations are in order or condolences, however, you perceive being on my show.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the case, maybe.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me on again, Kent.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: I believe this is my second time on your show.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think so.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: The first time was when I published my book a year ago.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And today is the one year anniversary of the book coming out, and it's probably roughly around the one-year anniversary of you having me on your show the first time.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: Something like that, yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, congratulations are definitely in order.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: That is a massive accomplishment.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Your book has been so successful on so many different levels, which is, of course, what I want to dive into.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: But I guess my first question is what are you doing to celebrate today as we're recording this?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And this is the one year anniversary.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: What am I doing to celebrate?
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, not that much.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: It's sort of a, you know, another regular day at the office, if you will.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: I've got uh four interviews today.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I think three that I'm actually conducting, including one with you for my show, and then obviously this interview.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but this morning was really cool.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I hadn't been thinking about it too much, but uh my my assistant, my operations manager Stephanie, who's been with me every step of this journey, uh, she created this really cool video uh with the rest of the team and actually reached out to my family, uh, unbeknownst to me, and sent me this really awesome video this morning celebrating everything that we've done with through the last year with the book, all the reviews, um, and some congratulations from different friends and family.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Um I also brought it up with my kids and um my kids who are seven and five uh did a little dance and sang happy birthday to my book this morning.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: And uh that was really fun.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: I took a video and posted that on Facebook.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just kind of, you know, I post it on social media and I'm I'll I'll accept all the congratulations that come my way.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, otherwise just a normal day because one year I am really proud of what we've done in the last year.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do see this and you know, it could be part of our conversation as part of a longer journey of building my brand and making an impact.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think we're just getting started.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people come out at the gates with the book, you know, try to make a big buzz if they can, um, maybe try to get that quote bestseller status on Amazon, um, you know, because they sold the most books in some subcategory between two and three a.m.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: on a Tuesday night, right?
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Tuesday morning, right?
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm thinking about long-term sustainability, you know, the marathon instead of the sprint.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: And so um I do believe in celebrating wins.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I do want to celebrate this moment, um, but I think we still got a long way to go.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: That's and I love that perspective because so much of the author and book world is in the moment, and we've got to reach this goal.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of an arbitrary goal to begin with, really.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, some bestseller thing.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: We've got to reach that in this certain amount of time, and it's all very it kind of just makes you want makes you exhausted emotionally, all the stuff that sometimes is part of being an author.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: It it's a lot of work if you want to do it well and you want to do it right, and I know you want to go into some of that stuff, but it kind of reminds me of you know, I try to be kind and curious with everyone, but in this moment of snarkery for myself, uh, you know, I've also hosted a conference in the past and I've got two podcasts.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: I get a lot of people, like cold outreach and people that want to speak on my stage or come on if I guess whatever.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you get some of this as well.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and someone reached out to me and said they wanted to speak at my conference about their best-selling book.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: They were a best-selling author.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And I went and looked, and you know, the book had been out for several months, it had maybe like four reviews on Amazon.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: It's clearly not a bestseller.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And I and I kind of said, like, you know, is your will you just be honest about your book?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, is it really about like, well, you don't understand?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's you know, it was a bestseller.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: It did make the best-selling category, and it's really hard to get people to leave reviews.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, look, I understand.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: I I know it's a lot of work.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't want to mislead people, and I'd rather, you know, focus on that long-term growth anyway.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: So there's a little bit of my cynicism coming out, but I also want to remind people that like it, you want to sure come out of the gate strong if you're publishing a book, but there's a lot of work to be done to make it actually successful long term.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Now I do want to dive into that for just a second because you've been very successful at getting.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: I think the last time I checked a couple of days ago, uh, how many reviews do you have on Amazon?
7:31
SPEAKER_00: It's 220 something, or over over 220 five-star reviews.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: And that it's been a little slow lately.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: I need to kind of make a make some effort in in asking for more of those.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I am proud of that because I think most books rarely get to that 50 or 100 mark, and and we've gotten past that, which I'm I'm really proud of.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: What were some of the strategies that you use in your book launch and in the past year to get that number of reviews?
7:57
SPEAKER_02: Because that is really remarkable.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh, first of all, lots of credit goes to our mutual friend and mentor, Honore Corda.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've had her on, I'm sure you've had her on your show.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: We've both been through her course on uh self-publishing called self-publishing PhD.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot from her.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and she also has a book called You Must Write a Book, where she shares a lot of these tactics and strategies.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: You can go get for free or$10, whatever.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I followed a lot of her methodologies as well as teaching and advice from other people and some things my own way.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: It started with um publishing and doing that um early reader team or you know, pre-launch team where you get some people uh to support the book before it launches by, you know, send them an early copy, uh, let them read through it, send feedback.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, by the way, that whole process was really helpful um, you know, to get that feedback because there were a couple of people that really went through the book with a fine-tooth comb and found a bunch of typos and uh, you know, things that that I was able to correct uh right before publishing.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Because as you know, when you self-publish, you have a lot more control to go in and say, okay, I'm gonna upload a new version of this right before you know we publish the book.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: So I was able to fix some of those things.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then many of those people were eager to jump on board and help uh get the book launched and leave reviews in return to support me.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: So that was really helpful.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and to get a lot of those reviews, though, I think one thing I did that maybe a lot of people wouldn't do was follow up with people several times.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, because what I've learned through many years of being in sales and running a business, all this sort of thing, is like people always have good intentions to help you out or connect or have a meeting or whatever.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but people get busy, and unless you follow up and then remind them, it's probably not gonna happen.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And you know, quite frankly, like I love supporting my friends with book reviews and things like that.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I forget.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And if they ask me, then I'm like, oh yeah, I was gonna do that.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: And I go and I go leave a review, right?
9:52
SPEAKER_00: So I don't mind when people follow up and remind me.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so a lot of follow-up, and so much so in the first few months that I probably like really annoyed some people because there were there were a few people that I followed up with, like after they'd already left a review and probably asked them three more times, like, hey, have you left a review for the book?
10:10
SPEAKER_00: And they'd be like, Yeah, I did.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Did don't you remember?
10:14
SPEAKER_00: And like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So there's a risk to getting a little bit overzealous, right?
10:19
SPEAKER_00: And doing too much of this.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, it it pays off in the end to be following up with people, to be asking a lot of the time.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, those those maybe three or four people that I bugged too much, um, I apologize and hopefully they understood.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, I also I I also sent the book out to a lot of people over the last year.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so anybody who was a potential prospect, you know, client, um, influencer who could help support me, uh, I was mailing books out to all those people.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to keep my books moving.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I published my book, I went to a private printer and I ordered a thousand copies, uh, which was a lot.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't recommend that.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a lot of money and a lot of books to store somewhere.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but having so many makes it easy for me to be like, I need to send these books out, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_00: If I'm say paying five dollars every time, I might hesitate.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but because I have this huge like box treasure trove of boxes of books, I'm like, I need to send these.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, every Friday I go to the post office and probably send 10 books out a week.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, sign books to anybody, you know, not like I'm to anybody who wants them, but anybody I think could be influential, could be helpful with the book, potential clients.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I am also I'm following up with some of those people to ask for reviews.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And then um, of course, I get people who find the book on Amazon and read it and either send me a message or post about it on social media.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm always so grateful for that.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'll usually follow up with them too and say, Thank you so much for reading the book, for posting about it, for telling me about it.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Would you mind leaving a review?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And some of them do and some of them don't, but I think just asking that question, because a lot of people just don't think to do it, right?
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't always leave Amazon reviews for every book I read or every product I use.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if someone asks me to do it, then I'm I'm more likely to do it.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's being very proactive in asking a lot of people for help with those.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Man, that is I okay.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: I stopped taking notes just FYI just about 30 seconds ago.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Let me add one more thing too that I know you are because I think this is important.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think I know you're a big advocate of this.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: And we even talked about this, I think, from one of the books you were writing, um, which is that I believe in karma or whatever you want to call it, that what you put out into the universe or the world is is often what you get back.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: So I am also I am I am proactive in leaving reviews for other people, right?
12:42
SPEAKER_00: I've left a review for your book and your podcast.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Any friend I have who publishes a book or writes, you know, starts a podcast or anything like that, I will go out of my way to support them and be one of the first people to leave a review because I want other people to support me.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: And I just don't understand how you can expect people to support me, support you if you're not willing to go out and support other people.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: So um, so I'm very big on that.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And I never, never, never stop doing that.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: One of our mutual friends just launched a new podcast like last week.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I heard about it, I saw about it, I went and left, you know, listened to it and left a five-star review.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: And I want to keep doing that because again, I don't think we can expect others to support us if we're not supporting other people, right?
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And so call it karma, call it whatever you bel whatever you want.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to put out as much positive support, generosity into the universe, so it's very easy for that stuff to come back to me.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, this is really good stuff.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mentioned I stopped taking notes because I was like, there's so much good stuff here.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to have to come back later and listen to this because you're like, it's like this truckload of such good advice, and I really appreciate this.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: Now, I I do want to get into in just a minute about how you've used the book to develop some streams of income and all kinds of cool opportunities, but let me get kind of granular for a second because a lot of the problems that people have when self-publishing comes down to the the details that are sometimes very frustrating and not knowing what to do.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: I did not know that you went to a private printer and had all those copies made.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: I thought you would were just getting those from your Amazon author account.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: No, um, when I initially published, I I ordered maybe 50 from my Amazon author account.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And then I sent those out.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: And then right after that, I actually made a slight change to the formatting.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: That was before I published.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and after I got through those, I I knew I wanted to be sending out a lot of books.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think when I order from the Amazon author account, including shipping, um, I was paying, I don't know, close to five dollars per book.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds about right.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: And when I went through this private printer in Chicago that was recommended to me by Andre, um, it takes longer, right?
14:49
SPEAKER_00: It takes about a it took me maybe between four to six weeks, I think, to get the whole process approved and all that sort of stuff.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: And then get the books.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I order a thousand, you know, with the more you order, the more the price comes down.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Um so ordering a thousand books, including shipping, I want to say my cost per book is came down to about two dollars and twenty cents.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a lot less.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then every time I send a book out, as I mentioned, I'm at the post office almost every Friday mailing books out.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I almost always send them media via media mail to people in the US.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, that is about$3, pretty much flat rate to anywhere in the United States or Puerto Rico.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I'm looking at a cost of about$5 per book to send those out.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Now I do occasionally send them to people uh internationally as well, Canada, Europe.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have found that that shipping is between$22 and$25 to almost any country.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: So when I send them to Canada, it's right across the border, it's still$25.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just sent one last Friday to somebody in Poland, same price.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: $25.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I've sent multiple books to people in India, same price.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Like it's mind-boggling to me.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but whatever.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So a limited on the international stuff.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it's good to have international support as well.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: What about the hardback version of your book?
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Did you do that through Ingram Spark?
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So I did create a this is funny, it's kind of embarrassing.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: I created a hardback version through Ingram Spark.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: I did have my cover designer create a hardback uh version that was a um, what do you call it where it's like it's it's inked right into the hardback?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not like it, there's like um a case laminate case laminate hardback, yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: I created that through Ingram Spark.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's only available through Ingram, it might be available on Amazon now.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I have actually had people send me pictures of them holding the hardback, so I know people have ordered it and bought it.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: I have personally never held the hardback version.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't have it.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: I only have the paperback version.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: I should probably order one.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: So would you would you say that people doing nonfiction books, is it is it worthwhile to have the hardcover done?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: I think it's I think it's yeah, I don't think it was really, I don't think it cost that much extra, right?
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And to have that extra version, um, you know, what I've learned to take it away from books, just anything, is that everybody likes to consume content things differently, right?
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: You and I might look at a book and say, Oh, paperback is is$15, hardback is$25.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Why would I buy the hardback?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: I'll just buy the paperback.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Lots of people look at that and think, I like hardback, I will pay$25 for hardback.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: And they do, just like I've had people that were like, Oh, I ordered your book through my local bookstore.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: You can just get it on Amazon faster.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: But no, they insist they want to order it through a local bookstore, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And just like some people like reading physical books, some people like Kendall, some people like audiobooks.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, everybody has their own preferred way of consuming.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: And so I think we as creators, as authors, as artists, um, you know, if we want to grow our brands, we want to make it available in as many mediums as possible to people.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: So, did you set up all that stuff yourself on Ingram?
18:04
SPEAKER_02: That that's quite a I've dug in there a little bit myself, but it is so it feels so complicated and kind of overwhelming that I was like, uh, I'm gonna set, I'm gonna shut this down and come back to this in a couple of years, you know.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Ingram was, I do remember Ingram being a little bit confusing.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, I did mess something up because uh I had set it up on Ingram for the hardback and I believe the ebook.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: And then I went back to Honore and I was like, wait, was I not supposed to do that?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Because I had already turned on um uh Kindle Direct, uh the Amazon, what is it called?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Um Kindle Unlimited with Amazon.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: So if you make your book available on Kindle Unlimited, then you're not allowed to have the ebook available anywhere.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: I understand, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I thought I think I turned that on and I'm maybe I violated service for a couple days until I was like, oh no, I need to turn that off.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: So I took the ebook off of Ingram Spark, and I've kept my book on Kindle Unlimited.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know if yours is on there, but I read on Kindle Unlimited, and like I often choose books on Kendall Limited over books that are not.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: So like I just want it available to people to find and read, you know, in as many mediums or ways as possible.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Man, this is really, really good stuff.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Um speaking of that, I will admit something because far from perfect, right?
19:17
SPEAKER_00: And make plenty of mistakes.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm talking here talking about how it needs to be available to in as many methods and mediums as possible.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: I have still yet to release the audiobook.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, I started recording it uh right before I was publishing.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, as you know, I ran into some health challenges.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: I had cancer, um, I had surgery right after I published my book and was experiencing a lot of pain and then went through treatment.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the audiobook just kind of went to the wayside.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: I figured, okay, the book is out there, I can promote the book, people can still buy the book.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, now I'm I'm perfectly healthy and there's no excuse not to get the audio book done.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: I've got a microphone right in front of me.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I have been slowly recording the chapters to that.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm about 75% done.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: I've got an editor lined up who has already edited uh most of it so far.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: And um, you and I are recording this in November.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm really hoping my goal is to have the audiobook out before the end of 2021.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: So look for that coming soon.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: And you know, another topic from that too, going to the Ingram Spark thing that we may want to talk about is just like do what you can yourself, but don't be afraid to also hire other people who can help you with things.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: Man, that is that is such good advice.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: And a few months ago, I hired a a podcast editor who also does some stuff for social media for the Daily Writer for me.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: And and uh part of my inspiration for doing that was that you have been doing this for a long time.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: You've hired stuff out, and I was really hesitant to spend the money at first, but then I was like, you know, good grief.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: Why don't I just have somebody else do it who can probably do it faster and better than I than I'm doing?
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I can that that will free me up to do other kinds of things.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate you setting a good example for the rest of us in that regard.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I try.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, it involves investing money, right?
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And and that's a risk.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you believe in yourself, it frees you up to do other things.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And I edited my podcast myself for the first two years.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I could have done, I could have taught myself how to format my book or something else.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'd rather, you know, uh outsource that stuff as much as I can now.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: So I have a podcast editor.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: He's also the one who's gonna be uh doing the audio book for me.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: And he had never done an audio book before, but he's very eager.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: He's 21 years old and he's like, I'll I'd love to learn how to do this.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: And so he's like doing all the research and um gonna create the files the right way.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: When it came to the book, of course, I hired an editor.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also hired a book formatter and a cover designer, um, but I also hired someone to write the Amazon sales page because yeah, it's something I could certainly do myself, but I have no idea what should be on there.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And I got somebody for like, I don't know, it was not even that, it was a hundred dollars or something, it wasn't that expensive, who was an expert.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: She actually went and read my book and then wrote an Amazon sales page.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that is a bargain.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, such a bargain, such dedications.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: So you can really find some great people who can do things for you faster and much better than you would do them yourself, yourself.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: This is a great conversation because this is a podcast for writers.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: This is such a good conversation because so many writers who are doing work for hire are doing really, really low-paying work.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like part of my mission in life is to help writers make more money.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And I was only able to hire somebody when I started really diving into ghostwriting books, which is which is a much higher paying thing than doing like you know, really low-paying freelance writing.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: So I think my encouragement to to your writers is start doing work that is more highly valued so you can make more money.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: So you can hire other people and bless them with work as well.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: It's not just a one-way speaker.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And if you can, you know, not spend time editing your podcast and hire someone else to do that, you have more time to work on writing makes you more money as long as you're going to spend your time there.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and not spend my time watching cat videos or Star Wars analysis videos on YouTube, but I digress.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Not that there's anything wrong with those, but they don't make it.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'd love to dive into for a couple of minutes the way that some of the ways that you have used your book to develop some really fascinating income streams.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: And uh I don't know how much you want to dig into any specifics on all that stuff, but it has been really, really fun to see your journey with this over the last year.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: All the amazing things that this all the amazing things that you have done to get your book into the world and to use that as a way to then generate other streams of revenue.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: And and certainly I'm an open book.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and to be fair, I have a background in um training, speaking, facilitating to some extent.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: So, and I knew when I started writing the book, one of my goals was to become a paid speaker to get you know on more stages as a speaker.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't been a paid speaker to that point.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: I was facilitating workshops for other people, using other people's content, never my own.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to get to a place where I was using my own content.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: So the book really gave me the confidence and kind of the platform and the ability to go start doing that.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, unfortunately, what happened was while I was writing my book, uh a global pandemic hit.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you remember that uh and shut the entire world down.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't remember that.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: No, I just didn't remember.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what you're talking about.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I started writing the book in January 2020.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: And then of course the pandemic came in March, and I was like, oh, one of my goals was to become a speaker.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that's gonna happen now, right?
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's other things that I can do.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: And so as I was writing and and you know, planning and building, um, I decided to create a training program from my book that I knew I could run virtually.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And um then I started talking to clients about in the corporate space to sending the books out to lots of different people.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: If anybody, so my typical client uh and my network has primarily been people in HR learning and development.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Now there are pros and cons to focusing on that niche, if you will.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I come across people who could potentially bring me in to speak at their organization, whether it be on LinkedIn or anything else, uh, one of the first things I ask them is, can I send you a book?
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And you know, going back to having that, you know, boxes and boxes of books available is that there's no hesitation for me to send books to people.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've sent out hundreds of books, and you know, more than 50% of the time, I never hear from those people again, right?
25:26
SPEAKER_00: And certainly I can even do a better job.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I could follow up, right?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: I and I haven't done it enough as much as I talked about following up earlier.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true, right?
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And people get books and then they get busy, whatever, right?
25:38
SPEAKER_00: But some of those have turned into great conversations and have turned into uh paid client work.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: So um primarily the income I've gotten from my book has been obviously selling books through Amazon.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've done a few corporate deals where companies bought uh like bulk order 200, 500, 700 books from me.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been booking paid speaking gigs going back to starting at the very beginning of 2021 uh from the book.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: And then as I mentioned, I created a training program from the book as well.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting to sell that into organizations.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: I've been running pilot programs with a few different companies recently.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, basically taking the top content from the book, I created a six module program uh that's kind of like the five steps to owning your career and then you know tying it all together in the six module, uh, and then running that, facilitating that for companies.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I've also created an online course from my book, and I also outsourced that because I was, I could write a book, but I was overwhelmed by the idea of creating a course.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I hired a woman named Kachina uh and her company, I think you know Kachina pretty well.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: I do.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: She's great.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh so they created a course for me.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, I recently ran a virtual summit uh where I had 18 speakers in kind of the career space come together and speak uh on this three-day online summit, uh, which was free for people to come access, but I had upgrade options.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that was not a huge moneymaker for me, but it was profitable.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: So it's another way to make money, you know, kind of based on the book.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: So there's the speaking, there's the course, there's a training program, running the summit.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: I can definitely see doing live events in the future, um, considering starting a membership community uh based on my book.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: I know you run a membership community, you and I have been in the communities past.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: I run a membership community now in a different space, talent development.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: And so it seems like there's an opportunity maybe to create something here for people that want to own their career and get, you know, regular advice and hear from speakers.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so just starting to create a lot of things with the book as kind of the centerpiece to my brand and everything coming together.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And and and you know that you can know a lot about something, um, but sometimes it's hard to communicate people to people that you are an expert in a certain, you know, in a space.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, podcasting can help, um, social media can help.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the book is the way to really show people that you are an expert because the root of the word authority is author, right?
28:04
SPEAKER_00: And it and when we see people have a book, we're like, oh, they must know what they're talking about.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And so that is really helping me get these paid speaking gigs, you know, helping, you know, companies consider doing the training program.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it it puts me in that position of being an authority.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: And if I'm honest, it has really helped me build my confidence in embracing that and and the idea that I am an expert and an authority in this space.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the more and more I talk to clients and the more I see them listening to what I'm talking about, I know that I think I kind of do know what I'm talking about.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's not just because I wrote the book, but all the people I talked to along the way, all the interviews I've done, all the conversations I'm having, and I get to have a lot more conversations as a result.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so, you know, book sales alone, I've probably done better than most self-published authors, but still not making, you know, a ton of money.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's everything else that's gone into it, uh, with the speaking, the training.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think I've probably made maybe what did I tell you the day over$80,000 in the last year?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, something like that from the book.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: And I I really feel like I'm just getting started.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just warming up, as I mentioned before, totally long-term game.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a lot of opportunities that can come from this.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And I want to be very, very clear.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: I know it's obvious already, but it we look so often, these people are like, oh, overnight success, they're lucky they wrote a book and it took off, or people really liked it.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, no.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I put a lot of effort, like I have been hustling for the last year.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: I already told you, sending books out to people, emailing people, following up with people, having conversations, right?
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, making sure that when I do give a talk, um, and they've all been virtual this year, uh, that they're really engaging, that they're really good, right?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: So I did one early in 2021 for a division of the World Bank.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: They just invited me to come back.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, I did a speaking engagement for them again a couple of weeks ago, and they just booked me for their career month in February 2022 because it the last one went so well, and it's because I've put a lot of effort into making sure that this is really valuable for them.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so they want me to keep coming back.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Man, that is so exciting.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: You've you're doing things uh in so many different industries, and uh is there a sense in which when you do enough of these kinds of things that there's a lot of cross-pollination, people pay attention to people in other industries, and so you start to build a lot of momentum the more that you do this, I assume.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: I think you know, you do one thing and then you it builds momentum from the next, but you also have a choice to help create that momentum.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: So I've embraced self-promotion, as you know, and so when I'm doing these things, I share a lot of it on social media.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I post at least a couple of times a week, uh, at least on LinkedIn, if not other places, about my book or something related to my book.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, if I'm doing a big keynote, I'm sharing that to let people know what I'm doing because I want people to know that I'm an author, that I'm a speaker, that this is the work that I do, so that when that opportunity comes up, they think of me.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, so many people shy away from self-promotion.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: If you're an author, you just want to focus on writing.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but people are not gonna find you unless you're willing to promote.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, fine line.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be arrogant.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, I always remain humble.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: I love reading other people's books, learning, I can always get better.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am talking about it as often as I can, at least on social media, because I want people to think of me when that opportunity comes up and you're at your company and you're like, we need someone to talk about career development.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh, I think I saw Andy post something about that.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: I think he has a book.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk to that guy.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: So, one final question here before I start to kind of land this plane.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: I I've never actually used that phrase before.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I used that metaphor of landing a plane.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: It just came out of literally nowhere.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: So for I was trying to think in terms of who's listening to this, to this podcast and what are they thinking as my guest is is sharing and teaching us.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: One thing that occurs to me is what if what if someone is listening who has a lot of ideas for books and they don't know which book to pick?
32:08
SPEAKER_02: How did you choose this theme of own your career, own your life?
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Out of all the things that you could have written about or or talk about, how did you land on that specific one?
32:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a good question because um I'm in that same situation right now.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: I have this one book.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: I have ideas for I would say four or five other books.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you gave me one just a couple of days ago.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, did I?
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're of course, I'm sure you remember.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: I did a Facebook post about um some things you can do if you're facing big challenges.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: And you were like, this could be a book.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, I don't know.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, yeah, this is how you could do it.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, this is an this is another book.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: So you've got to think about um what do you want that book to do for you?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: And what do you want it to do for others?
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And how does that fit into your business and brand?
32:54
SPEAKER_00: And what makes the most sense for you right now?
32:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, whether it's a book or any of the many projects and things we can work on, um, the question I'm always asking is like, why would I do this?
33:04
SPEAKER_00: And how does this fit into over my overall strategy?
33:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, what do I want?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the questions I think honore talks about in that course that we took when you're starting to write a book is what do you want this book to do for people?
33:17
SPEAKER_00: What do you want them to do as a result of reading the book?
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you want the book to do for you or your business?
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, uh, one of my first ideas for a book, and something I've I've still never done.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And feel free to, I know someone person that's already done this, and feel free to steal it if you if you if you like this idea.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, I went to business school, I have an MBA, uh, was to create a book that was kind of like a guide for like how to get the most out of your MBA.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: And and and after I had this idea, I started looking.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this could be a book for law school, it could be a book for you know, medical school, doctor, whatever it may be, right?
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, that kind of stuck with me.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: I had a couple other ideas, but when this idea hit me, I knew that it was something that I was really excited about and passionate about.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: It was uh it leveraged a lot of the things that I was teaching and talking about on social media already.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and there was going to be an opportunity in the corporate world to make an impact with the content from this book and potentially leverage that to become, you know, a speaker and get paid and make and build a business around um making an impact.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Now, I didn't envision everything that I'm doing now, but many of those things were kind of inklings in my mind.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, going back to maybe like the MBA idea, I think there is a whole thing that you could build out around that, but I wasn't as passionate around it.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: I didn't see the opportunities, you know, maybe in the corporate space for that um as I do for this.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: And so when I think about the next book that I may want to write, I've got to consider those things as well.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: As well as I think there's also a consideration because you've got a book.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I know you've been thinking about a couple other books.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've started writing another book, right?
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's also kind of the there's a couple different strategies that you people we know have followed.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: One is write one book and stick with marketing that book for at least five years and don't get distracted with anything else, right?
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you'll have more success that way.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Another strategy is you've got all these books on your head.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Try to come out with one new book every one to two years.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And even though it will be a lot, they'll they might be on different topics, different things, uh, just attracting different audiences is going to attract new people, you know, even to your old book, because as Honore likes to say, the best way to market your book is to publish a new book.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Because then people read it and they're like, oh, this book is really good.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I want to see what else Kent has written.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: They go to your Amazon page and they find your old books.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's another one as well.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: But when I think about, okay, I have these other book ideas.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to stick with just marketing the book I have now?
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to come out with another book?
35:47
SPEAKER_00: And then is that book uh, for instance, I have two book ideas that are um I'm really excited about right now that I think think about writing.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: One is on leadership and one is on health.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, the health book is more of like, I want to help people, but is not a business that I ever plan on going into.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I know enough about it.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: It's not anywhere in near what I'm doing.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: I didn't go to school for it.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: It would just be, hey, I've been through cancer.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Here's the things I've done.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Here's what, you know, here's what you could do.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: I hope it helps, right?
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Versus the leadership book.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: I could build a, I could see building a whole business around it.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It's about what it means to be a modern leader and how to be a great leader today.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but that would take a lot of time.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So, do I want to go down that road and spend all this time building this versus maybe sticking with what I've already done and really see that through?
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Because as I mentioned, you know, it's a long game.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, today's the one year anniversary of my book, but I could see it taking five years before I'm really recognized in this space as like the pre-eminent person in the career space, which is what I want.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think we we just have to consider all these things.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: We've got to really sit down and think about it.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, hire a coach like a Kent Sanders and talk to them about what you want to do with your book.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: I do coaching.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: I know you do, right?
37:04
SPEAKER_00: So hire a coach or join a mastermind group or a writing community, uh, like the daily writing community.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, or you know, talk to your spouse and and your your friends and be like, hey, this is what I'm thinking about doing.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Which idea should I go with?
37:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think you also just you go back to the end of the day as like you look at what are you most passionate about, what has the most legs, as you as they might say, as like a business idea, and then figure out what's most important to you.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is really, really good advice.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of writers, including myself, sometimes struggle with this because you have the artist hat that that you wear when you're writing and creating, then you have the marketer or the entrepreneur or the business owner hat that you have to put on as well.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: And if you only wear one of those hats, it's gonna be uh pretty big imbalance.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess if you're just a marketer or the um the business owner hat, you just hire a ghostwriter.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: You hire people like me to do the book for you so you don't read it.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Right, or hire outsourced people, right?
38:01
SPEAKER_00: Because some people are like I've referred a couple of different clients to you who've started working with you, right?
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Because they're like, I have this idea, but I have no idea how to write it.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and conversely, I'm sure you know many people who are natural artists, writers.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: I love writing, but like I'm sure there are people right now listening to this who love writing and are just like freaking out, disgusted by everything I've talked about when it comes to marketing and self-promotion.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And like, I don't want to do that.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: And I totally get it.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And maybe you need to, you know, hire a PR firm, exactly.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Hire a marketing coach who's who's like every day is like, you need to post on social media now, right?
38:35
SPEAKER_00: You need to because you need someone to hold you accountable to that.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, I see myself as a marketer, business person who just got very lucky that I happen to be a decent writer.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, that the book has done well.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: More than decent.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, well, thank you.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was surprised that like how good the book came out.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also got a lot of help with it, right?
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Like my wife reviewed some of it, and then I hired a great editor in Terry.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I think that those things are important, but the book still we could be the best book in the world.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: But if I hadn't done all the marketing work I've done, nobody would would have ever found it.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: The thing that I I do love about Terry's editing, and we're talking about Terry Stafford, an editor who both Amy and I know is that whenever he gives you your edits back, there's always these little funny, very sarcastic, dry comments, dry humored comments in it.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I just I love getting his stuff back because it's so funny.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: I love working with Terry, um, not just because he was a good editor, but I really loved his approach and his comments in the doc as well.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I knew I loved him the moment I got the doc back and I looked at the kind of the opening information where he basically said, Um, you're gonna go through and see a lot of red.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: These are my suggested edits, but keep in mind that this is your book and you get to choose whether you accept this stuff or not.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: It is up to you.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Like he really reinforced that, which I really appreciated, kind of took the pressure off right away to be like, Well, he's the editor, I should do what he says.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: But like, no, no, this is my book.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: I get to write whatever I want.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: And you know, but we could go back and forth on okay, should you use the Oxford comma and not or not?
40:10
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately he won me over.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Previously, I had not been a fan of the Oxford comma, but then I went with it in my book.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you came over to our team.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I came over to your team, right?
40:18
SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, he's like, do what you want, but just be consistent, right?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: And remember it's your book.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: And then when he would make these little suggested edits, he would make all these um, he would educate me along the way, like you said, like I put in this because the Chicago School of Grammar or whatever says this and this, and like blah blah blah, or he'd say, like, the school of grammar says this, but I personally don't think it should be this.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: And he was very he's very good at educating people along the way.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be a great commercial for Terry Stafford out of your book.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: But but I liked his editing, and uh, I'll I'll certainly be hiring him again.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: Andy, this has been an absolute blast.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate your inspiration, your friendship.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: And and I think I mentioned this to you the other day on my phone for the last year, on my lock screen has been I created a little wallpaper that says if if Andy Storch can do it, what's your excuse?
41:06
SPEAKER_02: Because you were still outpacing everybody when you were in the throes of cancer.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, holy cow, I don't I have zero excuse for not busting it, you know.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, thank you.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I had gotten the book done at that point.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, you know, going back to that, um, I found out that I likely had testicular cancer and I needed to have surgery like three weeks before I was publishing my book.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: And my uncle, my urologist wanted me to have surgery like the next week, and I actually put it off three weeks so that I could finish publishing my book and then go have surgery.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily recommend that for those of you who have medical emergencies, but I really wanted to get it done.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And then after that, it's like, what are you doing to promote your book, especially in a COVID world?
41:46
SPEAKER_00: There were no book signings, there's no like going out on tour, it's all virtual.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And so if I felt well enough, I could lay on the couch and I could post about my book on my iPhone, I could message people, I could follow up with people to say, Hey, did you get the book?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Would you mind leaving a review?
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I'm not saying if you're sick, you need to keep working or whatever situation it is.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that we live in a wonderful time with amazing technology, and that if you got a few minutes here and there, you've got uh you're not feeling well, you're on the couch, but you can hold up your iPhone, you can still do some work to promote your book.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of what I kept doing, even when I was feeling sick, because I dedicated a lot of time and energy to healing myself.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: I was reading a lot of researching cancer and nutrition and all those things.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I needed to feed my family, and I still wanted this book to be successful.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I was still putting effort into that.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, Andy, thanks again so much.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: This has been an absolute blast.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: And I will have links to all of your stuff, all the things in the show notes.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: So thanks again.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: Been a lot of fun.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kent.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: I love your show and everything that you're doing and the transitions you made.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to have you on my show soon.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and do this again, maybe if you'll have me back for the two-year anniversary, we can talk about what we've done by then.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: It'll be like a pre pre-Thanksgiving ritual or something.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: Or pre-Christmas or whatever it is.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: So wasn't that a fun conversation?
43:09
SPEAKER_02: I just learned a ton.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I was taking notes as we were talking when I was recording that interview, and I just had to stop halfway through because I was just taking too many notes.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: And I just said, I'm gonna have to come back to this and you know, run it through transcription or something so I can get all the nuggets that Andy was dropping here on this uh on this episode.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: This was really, really good stuff, and this gives you just a taste of the brilliant guy that Andy is.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: If I had to pick one takeaway from this conversation, I would say it's this you can make money with your book and you can use it to build a business.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: The key is you just have to start thinking like a business person and put some strategies into place.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, you have to get the book out there first.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't build a business around a book that doesn't yet exist, so you have to do that first, which is not necessarily some small task.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that it is, but you gotta get the book out there into the world.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And then you have to start thinking like a business person.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: And again, just build some of these strategies around it, like Andy is talking about.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: And if you're an artist at heart like I am, if you uh sometimes have had a hard time perceiving of yourself as a business person, I just want to tell you if I can do this, you can do this as well.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: I've been able to build a very successful ghostwriting business uh around my writing skills.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: And and now I've got m multiple income streams related to not just that, but also my daily writer community, including you know things like membership fees, affiliate income, book sales, uh coaching fees, and all kinds of other things.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: So if I can do it, I promise you can as well.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: I come from the worlds of uh church ministry and higher education, you know, and I've said this before here on the show.
44:47
SPEAKER_02: Those are two fields that are about as far away from business as you can possibly get.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: But if I can do it, you can do it as well.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: And I have people just like Andy Storch on this podcast to encourage you and to help you know that you can also do this.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: So I hope this has been helpful to you and uh that you've learned some things.
45:04
SPEAKER_02: I certainly took a ton away from this uh conversation with Andy.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to encourage you to check out Andy's podcast.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: Again, there are three of them, so there's lots to choose from.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: And um, and to check out Andy's book, of course.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: Buy Andy's book, by the way.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: Um it is legit, really, really good book.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: I love to promote my friends' books, but legit, this is a really, really fantastic book.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: So I hope that you'll go out and get that.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: Own your career, own your life, go to Amazon, grab it now.
45:30
SPEAKER_02: There is a link in the show notes.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks so much for listening, and thanks so much to my great friend Andy for taking the time out to be a guest on the anniversary of his book launch.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: This was so much fun.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasing success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join, but I can never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.