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E10 From Strategy to Action with Alex Wheeler · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from each other's experience. theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today joined by Alex Wheeler of C &W 1: C&W Wealth management And like any owner he's in that middle of building something, fixing something and growing something that really matters. Alex, welcome. Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. this conversation helped you, please like, comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About % of our audience hasn't done that yet. ⁓ And small actions help us reach more business owners just like you. Alex Wheeler: Ranger, thank you very much for having me on. Granger Forson: Fantastic. So let's start at act one, your business. So in plain English, what does your business do? If you want to join the conversation as a guest, or if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle, reach out at us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now, make it a really successful week and we'll see you at the next one. Cheers. Alex Wheeler: ⁓ simple terms, I help people who earn good money but don't really feel it turn financial freedom and make that they're not out on anything important, such as ⁓ hitting any hurdles along the way. Granger Forson: Fantastic. it's about helping people get that financial freedom and feel secure and develop in that future, often that long term future, So who do you love and what are typically dealing with then? Alex Wheeler: Gosh, it's so many. I come across people in all different backgrounds. So from people who have, being a qualified financial advisor, my door's being knocked on all the time by someone who might have an issue with they've received some money or they've been given some money in a trust and it's complex and they're just trying to unravel it through to people who are earlier on in the journey and they're just trying to figure out, wait, hold on a second, no one. no one taught us anything about now we're starting to earn a bit of money. How do we make sure we hold on to it? Because there's quite a lot of tax out there and what's the best way that I can earn money, keep it and hold it for the future. usually the two different camps I knocking on my door. Granger Forson: Excellent, right, so we've got a good understanding of those people. go to the business. When you start and what was that original spark, that idea? Alex Wheeler: the business originally came from, so I used to work ⁓ for Bristol-based financial advice firm who we helped business owners. So it was a bit of a blend between helping fund people's businesses. So director owners could raise funds through, ⁓ they could lean on their ⁓ pension funds, other other things like that in a really tax-efficient way. ⁓ And ⁓ I that ⁓ gosh. seven or eight years to start with. This was way back in 2011, something around then. And that company took me on and grew qualifications, my career and everything about I know today ⁓ about what do. But eventually it got to the stage where I wanted to spread my wings a bit more, have a bit more control over the types of people that I could help. And yes, I still very much look after business owners, but it's also people with other issues. And so I wanted to set up my own practice and open the door a little bit wider, but also keep it a little bit narrower, keep it a bit more local, because I used to be national, so a lot of driving and slightly over that. Granger Forson: ⁓ Fantastic! that's fun. Yes, you had that great start but you also saw that opportunity, that idea, keeping it local but helping other people. like that. Very good. So does your business look like today then in terms of size and shape? Alex Wheeler: wow. so I started when started about six years ago with my own practice. I had a few clients with me, which was great, but then it growing by word of mouth. Now, my initial business plan, gosh, I've had so many that I've torn up and restructured from the start. My initial business plan has completely changed ⁓ and I was going to go one avenue. It's It's now a blend of I'd say about 50 % of ⁓ clients are business owners, just because that's where I've trodden that path and I've got loads of experience and I'm able to answer a lot of questions that most my financial advisors can't because of what I did before. Through to, I like helping people who are either one really needed ⁓ or just open to spotting those opportunities and making sure they're getting the most out of it. at moment, I think ⁓ I look after around 40 different families. So it's 60 individuals still growing. ⁓ yeah, say of are now starting to come up around the southwest region, but it does bridge quite a lot naturally. So I'm up and down the M4 corridor, so down to London a fair bit. ⁓ that's where the business is at the moment, I think. Granger Forson: is the business still you? Alex Wheeler: So it's not just me, got me and ⁓ got ⁓ team of six. So they're helping me in all the different areas of research, compliance ⁓ report writing. So I've aligned my practice with a company called St James's Place, one of Europe's largest wealth managers. So it's great to have that scale, but at the same time, I think a lot of people care about that face-to-face connection. They want to know that the person who's giving them that suggestion, that recommendation to do this, and it'll save you that, they want to have that trust. And my feeling is if I have a team of 15 or a team of 20 that we're constantly cycling through clients, I think you start to lose that connection. Granger Forson: Yeah. love that. what you're trying to do is build enough clients with a small team, but keeping that connection. At moment that connection is just through you, but we'll see how the business grows and where you go next. In six years, that's done amazing. You've got that number of team there to support and do that. And my next question is always around why do customers pick you and how do you delight them? But I think you've really explained that already around building that trust, building that knowledge. if you can, tell me about a customer success that you're proud of. Alex Wheeler: Gosh. It's a client who came to me about a year and a ago and we reconnected six months ago. So a year ago, I had a first meeting with him. We did connect bit. What we did is we had, our process is normally three stages. So stage one, coffee chat, just to get know other, if we're ⁓ on par with one another. And stage two is... our strategy meeting. So that's the one where I really break down into what track they're on and what different tweaks we can make along the way to save a bit of tax or get some better value out of their investments. And we had that initial coffee chat and I'd highlighted a few of the different areas that I could really help him. And most of the people who come to me are quite time poor. So I raised it and he left it there at that first stage. But he came back to me a year later. and he said, look, Alex, you'd suggested a huge amount of really valuable things. I've completely forgotten what any of them are. I haven't done any of them. Can we restart? because I just feel like I'm kicking and I'm not going anywhere. So we broke down exactly where he is. And this chap, I won't mention any names, but I will mention a few numbers. He earns really well. He was earning around £180,000 a year and his wife was working. They had one child at school, at the same time he was trying to launch his own separate business, from month to month, he just wasn't going anywhere. He had credit card debts. All the money was going out the door. He was working from morning to dusk and he had no way of building up a financial savings buffer. Well, some people won't talk to you about, they'll talk about the flashy side of investing, talk about their percentage returns. But actually, one of the biggest things that can give you financial freedom is having savings. So just having that little war chest that's supporting you. ⁓ just didn't have any of the structure. So what we did is we stacked up all of his finances on one side. I tweaked them around a bit. I didn't change how much he was earning. I didn't ⁓ change how much he was saving. But by reorganizing, changing some of the ways he was doing things, we generated an extra £1,500 a month. So going from spending everything you had and probably a little bit too much, he now had a buffer of an extra £1,500 a month. Now can be a good thing. When you get that extra money, it does mean that you might start thinking, well, let's spend it. And then your expectations go up. But what this gave him was a master's eye of relief. we generated an extra £1,500 a month. he now had a buffer of an extra £1,500 a month. Now can be a good thing. When you get that extra money, it does mean that you might start thinking, well, let's spend it. And then your expectations go up. what this gave him was a master's eye of relief. a realisation actually I can start to earn my way out of this. I can start to put money aside so that me and my family can have headspace, we can afford those holidays, maybe even I could dial a little bit back at work, saving for the future with these extra funds. So for me, that was one of the biggest ⁓ in the last six months I've had just giving someone that breathing space. a realisation actually I can start to earn my way out of this. I can start to put money aside so that me and my family can have headspace, we can afford those holidays, maybe even I could dial a little bit back at work, while saving for the future with these extra funds. So for me, that was one of the biggest achievements in the last six months I've had just giving someone that breathing space. and it's he's been a really inspirational chap to work with. Granger Forson: Fantastic. love that. Thank you so much for sharing it. that really sort of takes me, you when I work with my clients, I talk about, as a business owner, you should have at least three months initially, and then six months worth of operational costs, not every cost, but operational costs, just in case. I like that expression used that war chest that just ⁓ that ⁓ buffer, opportunity to slow down when something goes wrong in life, ⁓ to make good rather than hurrying to make fast decisions and probably sometimes making the wrong ones. So yeah brilliant fantastic story. business need leads, know leads then turn into opportunities and sales beyond that. How do you go about generating leads in your business? Alex Wheeler: So through a fairly widespread different routes. Now, word of mouth for me is the best way. It's the honor for someone who has either knows me, either sat down with me, whether or not they've directly done business with me or not. Quite often it leads to referral to one of their friends, family, or something else has happened. So that's one route. People who've seen me generally will put me in touch with one to two other people. one kind of snowballing effect. Another is I work with a couple of accountants who, especially this time of year, knock on my door a fair amount, everyone's looking at their allowances and reliefs about to drop off a cliff. So this time year, it's a lot of little admin-y bits to make sure that we save those tax reliefs and bits and bobs. And another is I have... tried the social media side of things a little bit. I haven't been the first at it. Hasn't always worked, but that's something in the future. But generally, it's just making sure that if people are going to search for me online, that my my profile is there and available and I've got some reviews. ⁓ And people recognize or offer their thoughts and opinions and their experience with you, I think it's really, really powerful to... not just to my industry, but to anyone. having honest, genuine reviews and making sure you're looking after customers that those, ⁓ I it's going to be one of the best business generators out there. Granger Forson: And are best type of lead generation because they are the most likely to convert into sales. ⁓ But ⁓ sometimes those are ones take and learning to understand to them work. But referrals can take an even longer time sometimes because ⁓ it takes that time to build that relationship with your customers, that relationship your referral partners to get to that point where it then starts deliver where a lot of us think well just like something in the shop but you know just because I put it out there people will come and turn up but building a business building a lead generation process does take that time to make it happen and get it working fantastic so what are you aiming for in the next 12 months for your business and why Alex Wheeler: gosh, I am so I am taking on new clients at the moment. What kind of clients am I trying to build on? Well, it's really two main hubs and it's two categories of ⁓ kind of of business. ⁓ It tends be so I'm based in the West country and the ⁓ that probably most of my need and help around this sort of area are looking at. things such as family planning, legacy planning. So that's, they're thinking about all the new inheritance taxes that the governments are leaning on us with. Mainly it's the uncertainty of it all because it just seems to change all the time. So based geographically around here, that's one of my hot topics that I'm talking to people about. I also have a bit of a bubble of clients in and around London. So West London, they to be the more... aspirational individuals with younger families, fairly high salaries and fairly high tax rates, which I'm growing there as well. I only take on somewhere in the region 10 clients every year. It's not a great deal, but that's ⁓ enough and actually the at which really want to get to that stage because I take on any more I just don't want to impact anyone else that I'm working with. ⁓ I'm getting to the stage where I can be a little bit more selective and making sure that everyone is getting the most out of me. Granger Forson: Brilliant, yeah I like that journey, I like to see where you're going. let's move on to Act 2, let's explore your journey to date as a business owner. So the last six years of business, ⁓ how you describe its ups and downs? What are the highs and lows? Alex Wheeler: very much so. It was a real struggle starting just before COVID. But goodness for Zoom and thank goodness for all the video calling services. That was for dealing with the existing customers, but new customers were all trying to find that new ⁓ way of communicating. really found, gosh, I thought the types of business that I thought I'd be doing loads of at the start is completely different to others. Having two children since I started my business has actually been a wild roller coaster. They are so much more noisy than anyone tells you they're gonna be. there are so many good things out of what we do in terms of the customers have definitely been the high for me. To see everyone else's journey grow, how they're progressing, how they're... They're hitting their own goals. It's why I do what I do. of the more frustrating bits along the way have mainly been around the decisions to change. I I really own any impact on my clients and ⁓ I'll put it when financial decisions, from up top have a big negative impact on them. it really annoys me potentially as much as it does my clients. that's I'd say is my biggest low is feeling all of ⁓ the that some of customers go through when ⁓ major rule changes come in Granger Forson: running a business at times it's hard work, it's lonely. What you learned about and your business when times have got hard? Alex Wheeler: You are absolutely right when you say lonely. It's one of the things that I think you have to build into your everyday week is making sure that you're not just focused on you when you're doing your day to day. You need to get out there. You need to share your journey, share what you're doing with ⁓ just your team, but other industry owners, build network of mentors. And ⁓ don't have to be all completely business focused. I think having a mentor for attitude perspective, they don't have to be in the same industry as you. one of the people I've inspiration for has come from a rugby club where I joined when I to the area. And ⁓ it's just great to see outlook, the perspective, the attitudes that others have and feed off them. So ⁓ yeah, being a business owner ⁓ a bit of a solitary but make sure you don't ⁓ allow it to be. really sort of lean on others. Granger Forson: agree, I appreciate that need. It's one the reasons why stronger business together actually exists, ⁓ making better decisions through Now, just want to go back little bit. You talked about the evolution of business and you sell and what you do and the types of clients. ⁓ So what's changed over the last six years terms of what you sell ⁓ and what you sell now? Why did you make that change? Alex Wheeler: So it was solely helping who, I mean, was split into two different types of clients. Those who ⁓ needed cashflow for their business. So they that extra injection of funds for either growing or just steadying the ship whilst get through period of slight rockiness and And the other side of it was just tax efficiency. So people would come to us because we had a pretty clever way of saving tax, using pensions, growing your own wealth, but also saving tax within the company. that was really the main focus. The thing that has changed the most in the last six years for me is stage two that I mentioned a bit earlier, the strategy stage, where I'll sit down in front of a client, we'll map out the full financial future going forward. I've got a tool. I build what I call a financial plan for every single client and that running track to build on, strangely enough, isn't a product that I sell. It's not an insurance plan. It's not an investment It's not a tax planning strategy. Having that has been the most impactful thing that I've built into my business. And it doesn't bring any on its own. It's not a product that I sell. It's just part of the package, which I personally feel makes me a much more complete financial advisor. Granger Forson: Brilliant, ⁓ talked about children co-in to your life ⁓ and very noisy but they're rich in our lives as well. There are in your business when it saps your energy. ⁓ What have done to remove things, outsource things in your business that have given you energy back? Alex Wheeler: I realized. when I started the business, I'm not the best ⁓ at off tasks to people. ⁓ I'm ⁓ one who really to know how to do everything within the business. Even if, to be honest, I you'll know Granger from ⁓ not only just running a business but helping so many other businesses that you physically can't do every single piece of the puzzle. Sometimes it's regulatory. So you need your account and submit your accounts. Sometimes it's just something you're not so good at. But year one, I was definitely trying to do every single little bit of marketing. I was doing every single bit of planning, following up with people, writing all my reports, doing all my admin. Exhausting. someone on to do the bits that you're not necessarily so strong at has been an absolute game changer in terms of freeing up mind space, but also financially, it's such good value. help in the areas that you're not so good at. if you don't know what you're good at not so good at, ask someone else, lean on a mentor, lean on a confidant or ⁓ book a session with you, Granger. I'm sure be to point us in the right direction of what things we might want to have a think about. Granger Forson: ⁓ outsourcing and finding people to take on those elements is so so important ⁓ now and Everyone talks about AI are using AI in some form within your business Alex Wheeler: We when it comes to ⁓ meeting notes, just making sure that I've got a good track exactly what we discussed and kind of actions I should able to take. And to be honest as well, it's really good ⁓ to follow through into those reports that I'm offering clients. So when I say You've got this I suggest you switch to this. Everything that we've discussed, everything that you've told me about and shared about your plan, AI a great way of bulletproofing that whole process to make sure it's fully accurate. And ⁓ yeah, that's I've ⁓ really lent it. Now, I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to it, so maybe I'm not expanding into too much, but I also think people don't necessarily too much of an influence. over those. Granger Forson: Yeah, so mean, what to you then would you never let AI do because you actually need human judgment? Alex Wheeler: any of planning. So I asked it the other day, I did a little bit of an AI test ⁓ and asked it to do one of my pension calculations, which I'd already done and it got it completely wrong. It ⁓ based it a calculation from five years ago or whatever it might be. So ⁓ when it to the, there's by the book, what is a good idea for someone to do. And then there's reading between the lines of people's goals. So for example, someone could come to me and say, right, I want to get the best value out of this pot of money, which I've just received. I actually had a meeting with someone today who had exactly that £85,000. They came to me and said, right, father's always told me, you've got to get this invested, you've got to get the best return on it. We took a step back. We had a sit down, we looked at what's going on in your life ⁓ It turns out they had a massive career change. So their husband at the same time, their kids were all just going off to university. One of their children's cars just broke down and we did a financial model. We did a financial plan and yet they had loads of headroom. But just at this moment, it wasn't the right thing to do. They just didn't have enough cash flow. They were spending slightly more than they were actually earning. by the book to get the most out of that 85,000 pounds, you got to get it invested. having that breathing room to enable them to adopt to their new careers, investing that cash was the best thing to do. So when it comes to how much can you lean on AI or use books to ⁓ and direct decisions for your clients, I think there's always gonna be that little bit of perspective because the client was asking to that money invested. But actually, really felt that at this moment in time, take the 12 months breather. Yes, you might miss out on a few different little bits of returns here and there. You may or may not, but that financial freedom, that ability to breathe is going to be worth so much more to you than a few percent. Granger Forson: Fantastic. that's a really good description of using for some parts of it, but actually the human judgment of understanding the real nuances of what's going on and giving people really good advice based on your experience is absolutely valuable. at moment in time, AI can't do that. Who knows where it will get to in the future, but it definitely can't do that at the moment. ⁓ Brilliant. Well, move on to Act 3 now, our hurdle So have picked as ⁓ a hurdle for conversation today? ⁓ Alex Wheeler: So, guess one of my own hurdles is something I've ⁓ I've experienced it a little bit more recently. And that is that I don't ⁓ struggle much with people knocking on my door. I get them to the stage that, we'll do a bit of a plan, we'll get them to stage two ⁓ in my which is strategy side of things. I'll give them the options, I'll highlight, these are the routes that I really think you should be making, because they make a lot of sense. I'm getting clients to get that stage and they think, great, you're absolutely right. These steps all make sense. But then getting to the stage where they actually think, well, let's get it sorted. fully engaging and buying is a bit different. They're realizing the value that I've brought to the table. But then doing that last little bit of work. I've had a few people come back and think, Well, let's just have a bit of a reassess. So that's the hurdle I'm dealing with at the moment, I think. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and if we could fix this the next quarter, what better be like in one sentence? Alex Wheeler: That's a great question. me, better would be... If once I've shown value to clients, they really feel like engaging from step one. Granger Forson: So let's really first of all understand the current condition. So what's going on today? So how many clients do you get to the discovery step that then don't on for that? Right, okay, let's do this. Alex Wheeler: So clients will go from the discovery to the strategy stage. So first initial coffee, everyone loves that. The strategy stage, to be honest, I love the strategy stage. Most clients do love the strategy stage as well. It's then it's committing to what we've as a good way for them to move forward. I'd say my rate, Granger Forson: So a percentage, Alex Wheeler: My conversion rate from meeting one to meeting two is like 90%. So it's really high. My conversion from two to meeting three, meeting three being let's sit down, some paperwork and get things put in place is ⁓ around 40 % immediately. But it doesn't mean ⁓ I quite a few clients who like the one Granger Forson: Okay. Okay. Alex Wheeler: previously I mentioned, who will come back within a year, probably knocks it up to about 50 to 60%. But there's still quite a few people that I'm sitting down with who are taking on board what I'm doing and not taking action. Granger Forson: Yes. let's also ⁓ realistic here. no sales in the is 100 % conversion. we've got to put that as realistic context here. But okay. ⁓ So let's think about these individuals. So what often do is we think from our point of view. It's an interesting one. I have lots of conversations. We put ourselves from our point view because we live it and breathe it every single day. We take that forward with our clients or of people. ⁓ So first of all put our context ⁓ of They've come on your door ⁓ for a ⁓ They've had discovery call with you and they've gone, okay, let's have a strategy call. They've done the strategy call. What's going on their lives do you think? ⁓ Why would they suddenly ⁓ not want to to you? Don't think about you, think about them. ⁓ Alex Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: And often it's easy to think about maybe one or two people when you're answering these type of questions. Alex Wheeler: You're absolutely right. mean, I've got a couple of names that are jumping straight to mind. who is of inspired ⁓ whole business has a lot going in his personal life. He's going through, I won't say the specifics of but there are quite a few personal outgoings, a bit of an on and off. development. I think he's fighting a lot of fires in his life and Maybe he's thinking that this is another thing that he needs to go through, he needs to get done. Granger Forson: Well, it is, it's not, thinking that, that's the reality of it. If we think about our own lives, as things happen, we go, oh, I just need to fix this. We go looking for a solution, we find a solution, but now what we're doing is we've just added a solution, another thing, another action, another set of activities on top of our already busy activity lives. So actually what we're doing, we not just giving them more work to do? Yes, you know, it's brilliant. work yeah and we know what it will do for them and they may even said you know what that's really good but We've just added more to their thinking. We've added more activity that's going on and that's why people often go quiet. my business we have an expression called gone to Corfu. Corfu is our favourite island. We love in Corfu. So our expression is they've gone to Corfu. It's not that they've ignored us. ⁓ They've just on holiday. A holiday from our proposal, our of how to help them. And so that's effectively Alex Wheeler: Hmm. Granger Forson: them isn't it? So would we ⁓ then? ⁓ would be a new target Let's think about that. ⁓ What process would be ⁓ so don't end up being in a situation where we've done all the work to say this is the best strategy for you but actually done something maybe beforehand ⁓ to identify ⁓ the people ⁓ to work for. Alex Wheeler: gosh, I might come up with some ⁓ absolutely stinking ideas here, but ⁓ me throw some out there. Something I've toyed with is a one, ⁓ is to off with, tail end of my first the discovery, to just to be very frank and bring it up and say, look, let's book in this strategy meeting, but... Granger Forson: Good for it. Alex Wheeler: if I can find some strategies that are going to really put you financially in a much better situation, would you be willing to work with me on it? Granger Forson: Maybe change that a bit. again, putting it onto them, ⁓ put maybe ask something like, okay, we've had this initial now. We've had this diagnostic out of a score of to 10. Where are you currently on wanting to move forwards? If I was to develop some strategies for you to do that 10 being saying, yeah, let's go for it. ⁓ Five being ⁓ really unsure. being, you what? ⁓ love to do it, but just just snowed under. Alex Wheeler: I like that because that way you're just giving them a nice soft scale to work to. Granger Forson: Absolutely, yes. We often talk about in sales process, we talk about feelings. How do you feel about that? Okay, when you put feelings in, you suddenly pile on all emotions and everything else. But if you actually say, what do you think about that? then you actually start engaging the brain more. So by putting a 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 type thing on there, you're giving that thinking part of the brain to actually think about that opportunity, what's going forwards. Alex Wheeler: I like that, I like that. I'm definitely gonna scribble down some ideas evening, see what I can build in. ⁓ Granger Forson: Excellent. marketing is a funnel. it's lots of people that down to a few people turn up at our and say, I'd love to have a conversation, Alex. ⁓ Sales is a pipeline. It's one step after another step after another step. Now it doesn't mean everyone goes through that pipeline. There should always be checks and balances all the way through it to identify the right people to keep moving through it. those are those stages where you're actually ⁓ with them and saying, ⁓ are we? ⁓ we on the right track? Because I may just say, you know what, like the gentleman that disappeared for nine months or how long it was, ⁓ a year, they're too busy. But what you've given them is you say, look, what I can do is I can give you strategy session because you still might want to do that because you still want to add value but then you can say well I appreciate you just really really busy man I'm gonna do this strategy session we're gonna finish that off and you know I'll leave it with you therefore you can decide how much effort you want to put into the strategy development versus you know someone who you know is at a 10 who would definitely really be interested to move forward and you might build that in a more detailed way so we always have those checks and balances through our pipeline but it's just asking the question them, where are they? But don't put it in the words of feelings, put it in the words of questions and their thinking part of their brain. Alex Wheeler: think that's fantastic. I think it was a really good idea and you're absolutely right. I probably talk about feelings far too much. Much of a feeling myself. yeah, being able to bring that Granger Forson: Absolutely. would you do that first, think? So thinking through your steps, ⁓ three steps. ⁓ mean, is three enough? mean, let's be honest. Is three the right number? Are trying to move people too fast? I don't mean in times in but just the interaction. You already talked building that trust element. Is three meetings enough build trust? They're just some thoughts. Alex Wheeler: Yeah, so I guess thinking about, know people in my industry try and skim it down to two meetings. But again, that's not really how I want to run my business. Because I think at that stage, it starts to feel really transactional. ⁓ I for many people, it depends the outcomes I find from that second meeting, whether or not we do a three or four even a five meeting stage. I still call that strategy planning stage, the second meeting, even if we do it two or three times, because things will grow and develop because I'll plant some seeds with clients. They'll go away. They'll talk to their other halves. They'll come back to me and say, well, actually, I know we talked about this, but all of a sudden I found I've got this other thing and we might actually rather than do what we're doing it, we might want to retire and Barbados and throw a couple of. Granger Forson: Yes please. Alex Wheeler: a few bombs into the plan and so it is nice to come back and revisit. Now I do find the more you revisit it the more invested you get in that plan but it doesn't always necessarily Granger Forson: Because you're building that longer know, like and trust element, aren't you? You're building up that trust by engaging more them through that process. Alex Wheeler: Strangely enough, I'm coming back to the business hurdle. I have another client at the moment who have done. We've done three meetings already. So two strategy meetings and And yet, although they're really enjoying the strategy side of things, getting them through to securing that plan, there are of signals where they're putting the brakes on, but still wanting in second meeting stage. ⁓ So to be honest, this one is completely, he's throwing me because I'm getting loads of communications and getting loads positive feedback, but. Granger Forson: gas. Alex Wheeler: When it comes to the actual core of the plan, I only assume that his investments are going to do so well. But until I've actually sat down and looked at them, I can't follow it through. Granger Forson: and we talk about trust, but actually from their point of view, ⁓ it's their risk. their scaredness, their afraidness, whatever words we want to use. We talk about trust. Do they trust us? But actually for them, it might be a big step. So it's understanding them and ⁓ sitting in their and using language ⁓ and understanding and process that helps guide them to a better decision ⁓ all the way ⁓ thinking about how you're adding best value for them through that that you're doing of your sales process. ⁓ Alex Wheeler: I like that. That makes a lot of sense. Granger Forson: So wrapping that all up, what or two experiments could you do next to try some of these ideas? Alex Wheeler: So I definitely think into each stage, I need to be asking clients to think a little bit more about the process and ask for feedback along the way. And like you said, think tailoring what the next meeting or the next action is going to be based on how engaged they are in the process. Although I might be willing to take everyone through the process, might not be right for my business, but equally at the same time, it probably puts guilt them to see that ⁓ there's all of this advanced planning going on, which, yes, it might feel good to get the value but at the same time, it... they're not necessarily feeling like they're fully committed, it might put more pressure on them to think, ⁓ actually maybe I don't want any more meetings because I'm worried about maybe not wanting to continue. If I can take that measure beforehand, I can tailor what I'm doing or what I'm offering them to not put that pressure on. Granger Forson: Brilliant. And by asking it at multiple stages as well and subtly different each stage, you're also that a bit more commitment for them to the next step. ⁓ when they are a one and they're not interested, actually that's an opportunity to circle background and start asking other questions to find out why. So you can then improve ⁓ your again next time and the way you select and how you move people through and when you move people through because you want to do by right by them ⁓ rather yourself. Alex Wheeler: Yeah. Granger Forson: very clear from the beginning and helping and understanding them is what the journey is about rather than just selling. So if you were to make that change, what do you think an out come might be in the next quarter? Alex Wheeler: ⁓ I mean, there's no doubt with checks and balances and with tailoring my approach to motivated the client is, there's no doubt I'd save time on my end. And okay, let's say even if the number of clients I convert exactly the same, the number of man hours I'd be putting into it would change quite drastically, I can imagine. Granger Forson: well, ⁓ something to move forward with. So ⁓ let's move to our close and wrap up now. What you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Alex Wheeler: I guess it's nice to revisit ⁓ journey one's been on, the of things that are most important to you because when you're up your own business, it's ideological ⁓ and is nice know and feel and be able to share why I do what I And it's very much just because I get so excited along the that other people have gotten, being able to support people on it is, feel it's one of the biggest honours that someone can bestow upon me. Yeah, think that's ⁓ probably of the most surprising things that is nice to say out loud. ⁓ Granger Forson: Fantastic, fantastic. And finally, Alex, how can people get hold of you to follow more of your journey? Alex Wheeler: So, you can jump on my website, which is cwelf.co.uk. On there, you can read a little bit more information about me. And if you want to get in touch and if you've got any questions of your own, please feel free to reach out. It's got my contact details on there. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Well, Alex, thank you so much for being open and honest with us today. And I know our listeners will get an awful lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Alex Wheeler: Granger, thank you very much for having me on. It's been a real pleasure.