Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 159 - Clout vs. Craft: How Online Negativity Stunts Photography Growth

Transcript

159 - Clout vs. Craft: How Online Negativity Stunts Photography Growth · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

• 0:04
  Casey Fatchett: How about a greasy pork sandwich served in a
• 0:09
  dirty ashtray? You know what? I'd rather not. Oh, hello.
• 0:15
  Welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
• 0:18
  host, Casey Fatchett. In addition to providing
• 0:20
  informative and entertaining photography related content. I
• 0:23
  also go on adventures with the crew of the starship Fibonacci.
• 0:26
  Right now, F 2.0 has been how should I put it? Acting out he's
• 0:32
  been bullying the other crew members to try to make himself
• 0:34
  look cool. Strike first. Strike, hard. No Mercy. Yeah. That's not
• 0:40
  the way we do things around here. Speaking of bullying, in
• 0:43
  this episode of the podcast, I speak with photographer brandy
• 0:46
  Potter about the trend of photographers bullying and
• 0:48
  speaking negatively about other photographers in order to gain
• 0:51
  social media clout, and how you can better spend your time
• 0:55
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• 3:58
  Hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
• 4:08
  host, Casey Fatchett, and we have back with us. Brandi.
• 4:12
  Potter. Brandi. Welcome.
• 4:14
  Brandi Potter: Hi.
• 4:14
  Casey Fatchett: So glad to have you back. I think you're going
• 4:18
  to be the last episode of the year again. Great way to finish
• 4:21
  out. Before we get started, I'm going to roll the dice breaker.
• 4:26
  It's a 13 What is the worst investment you've ever made?
• 4:32
  Photography wise, like in business or gear or anything, it
• 4:35
  was like a worst, worst investment.
• 4:42
  Brandi Potter: That's a really good question that I don't, I
• 4:52
  don't know something.
• 4:54
  Casey Fatchett: You're like, I didn't need that. I've got a ton
• 4:57
  of, like, customer. Balance things that
• 5:01
  Brandi Potter: I never I'm not a gear person, so I'm not like an
• 5:04
  overspender when it comes to gear, because if I find myself
• 5:07
  not using gear I've bought, I sell it like pretty quick. My
• 5:13
  kit is very, very small, I don't know, maybe my studio, because I
• 5:18
  have not made any money off of it, but I love it, and it is
• 5:23
  very expensive, and we're kind of in the hole with it, but I
• 5:27
  still just love it, but it was a very bad investment on my part.
• 5:33
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, those things can play out a lot of
• 5:35
  ways. Like I had studios and, like, my last year of having an
• 5:39
  actual, like, photo studio. Like, nobody came to I was just
• 5:44
  doing meetings there, yeah, for weddings and, like, nobody was,
• 5:48
  like, wanted to do in studio portraits. And I was just like,
• 5:51
  Okay, I was like, going to locations, or, like, you know,
• 5:54
  other places just wasn't, I'm like, this is a, this is a waste
• 5:57
  of money now. So I decided, like, just gonna have meeting
• 5:59
  space. I don't need studio. And you know, that was fine for a
• 6:03
  number. Then people stopped wanting to come to meetings, and
• 6:07
  they're just like, Oh, I was like, Okay, now this meeting
• 6:09
  space is a waste. My they just want to do a zoom call. So you
• 6:15
  and I were talking recently on social media about how there
• 6:20
  seems to be a real uptick in mean, mostly I'm not gonna say,
• 6:26
  I'm not gonna be like old man shakes his fist at Cloud or,
• 6:30
  like, tells people to get off his lawn. I think it started
• 6:34
  with a lot of like, younger, more inexperienced
• 6:37
  photographers, but the being very antagonistic towards older,
• 6:45
  more experienced photographers, who not even asking them advice,
• 6:49
  just like coming into like comments and and like trying to
• 6:53
  get clout by being rude or mean.
• 6:58
  Brandi Potter: I you know, we've seen it. I think, I think when
• 7:02
  we started talking about it, it was on threads, yeah, and then I
• 7:06
  think you saw a comment I made to someone else, and then you
• 7:09
  messaged me on Instagram again. But I've seen so much stuff like
• 7:14
  that on threads, when people post and then a lot of it is
• 7:20
  newer photographers, but I've also seen, like, veterans in the
• 7:22
  industry like trying to get new clout, yeah, because I guess
• 7:27
  it's waning for them, also jump on social media and just be
• 7:32
  complete jerks to everyone. Yeah.
• 7:37
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, I think it's like, there it is. Like,
• 7:39
  seems to be a clout gathering exercise. And because, I don't
• 7:43
  know if they're thinking, like, oh, it's rage bait, and it's
• 7:46
  gonna, I'm gonna get rewarded with attention for it, like, Why
• 7:49
  do you think that they're doing like, they're
• 7:52
  Brandi Potter: I think, I think because of social media, the way
• 7:54
  social media is set up. And, you know, I went viral a lot
• 7:57
  because, like, my taglines were like, stuff to get people
• 8:03
  talking. And it wasn't. It was always like, what? Like, try,
• 8:10
  I'm going completely brain dead. I can't blame privacy
• 8:14
  Casey Fatchett: brain or a lot of your stuff was like, about,
• 8:16
  like, non traditional and, yeah, it's like,
• 8:20
  Brandi Potter: what I mean when I say I'm not a light and airy
• 8:22
  photographer, something along that lines. And I think a lot of
• 8:25
  people have seen people go viral with stuff of that nature for so
• 8:30
  long that they're taking an extra step and they're just
• 8:34
  like, being mean about it at this point. And like i i get nap
• 8:41
  trapped a lot with the baby. So all I do, like, while I'm nap
• 8:44
  trapped, and he's like, on top of me, is I scroll on social
• 8:47
  media where I, like, make videos on for Tiktok or whatever now,
• 8:52
  and I've been seeing so many videos from newer photographers
• 8:56
  or people claiming to be in the industry for, you know, a while
• 9:00
  that obviously has not been in the industry for a while, just
• 9:04
  posting the the worst things about their clients, or like
• 9:08
  other photographers or like other vendors, and it's crazy,
• 9:12
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, well, that's the thing, especially
• 9:13
  that boggles my mind, because I've been seeing that a lot too.
• 9:16
  Is the sort of and they keep saying it is, oh, I'm unhinged.
• 9:20
  On, you know, is in like, talking about clients. Why are
• 9:24
  you talking about clients in a public forum like that? That's
• 9:28
  just should be like, service industry 101, like, because this
• 9:33
  is a lot of as photographers, we want to say that we're artists
• 9:37
  first. But you are in a like, if people are paying you, there's a
• 9:41
  service you're providing, and the experience they get. So if
• 9:44
  you're out there talking smack about the people who are paying
• 9:48
  you money, other people are going to see that.
• 9:51
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, and I get it, I used to be, like, back in
• 9:55
  the day, I used to be very opinionated and loud and like,
• 9:59
  wrong a lot. Lot, and I can look back on that now and be like,
• 10:01
  Oh, I was wrong a lot, but I wasn't like, being malicious
• 10:06
  towards other people the way some of these people are. And
• 10:12
  like, I saw a video, literally yesterday, and it was like, so
• 10:16
  it was a photographer, and she was like, when you tell me, you
• 10:20
  don't have the budget for me, but you spend five to $10,000 on
• 10:24
  your venue. Like, not everyone's going to value photography as
• 10:29
  much as their venue, like some people want to put more money
• 10:32
  into other vendors, and that's okay, and it's just like you
• 10:37
  people are counting their eggs before they're in the basket,
• 10:40
  right?
• 10:40
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah. I mean, there are times when I've had
• 10:42
  people contact me who I know who spent 150 or $200,000 on a
• 10:48
  venue, and I'm like, I'm not in your budget. Like, well, they
• 10:51
  don't value the photography as much, yeah, but I'm not going
• 10:55
  out onto social media and being like, you guys will not believe
• 11:00
  what this person said to me and and I think that there's it
• 11:06
  gives a bad image to the whole industry. I mean, what do you
• 11:10
  think about that? Like it, like people from the outside who are
• 11:13
  watching this, or see it on social media, and see people
• 11:15
  like a talking about other photographers, talking about
• 11:18
  clients, it gives, what sort of perception does that give to
• 11:22
  people on the outside of what photographers are like?
• 11:26
  Brandi Potter: I mean, obviously it gives everyone a bad opinion
• 11:29
  of us, like, especially if they're in the budget area of
• 11:36
  like, having to book the people talking about their clients
• 11:38
  online. I don't feel like the higher end wedding vendors are
• 11:45
  griping and talking badly about their clients online, right? I,
• 11:49
  I have yet to see that, but it's, it's a lot of like the the
• 11:55
  lower end, like cheaper photographers not saying they're
• 11:58
  bad photographers. They're just not in the same bracket, like
• 12:03
  trying to use it to get views on their videos. And that doesn't
• 12:07
  like, it doesn't sit right with me. It's like when clients get
• 12:10
  online to gripe about their photographer without talking to
• 12:14
  their photographer first, and that ends up being a whole
• 12:16
  thing, yeah as well.
• 12:18
  Casey Fatchett: It becomes a big Yeah, whatever. Like, yeah,
• 12:22
  like, it makes you, I don't know if you don't talk to them first,
• 12:25
  in the end, you go, decide to go to the court of social media
• 12:29
  with it, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a bad look,
• 12:33
  Brandi Potter: and it's, it's like, a back and forth thing.
• 12:36
  And like, at a certain point we have to really realize that we
• 12:39
  are supposed to be the professionals, and the situation
• 12:42
  and that they are not the professionals. They hired us.
• 12:46
  It. This is a service based industry, and you know, if they
• 12:50
  talk badly about us online, like the best thing you can do is,
• 12:54
  like, try to educate them, instead of like, doing the same
• 12:58
  thing back to them, right?
• 13:00
  Casey Fatchett: And I think that it gives a I mean, we,
• 13:04
  especially in the wedding industry, we get enough bad
• 13:09
  vibes from people who are like, Oh, they're taking advantage of
• 13:12
  us with the pricing or whatever like. And then you see people
• 13:14
  like fighting amongst themselves about, oh, you know. But I think
• 13:19
  it is a lot of it is trying to get attention. I think that
• 13:23
  there people are rewarded for the interactions they get by
• 13:27
  having more people like, even if they're not liking your post or
• 13:31
  video or whatever it is, they're like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta speak
• 13:35
  my mind in the comments, and it leads to more engagement, and
• 13:39
  the algorithm rewards it, and then it gets thrown to more
• 13:41
  people, and they're like, oh, this will mean more people will
• 13:44
  see when I post my photos or my videos, like, more people are
• 13:47
  going to see it. Like, no, it's that's, you know, there's no
• 13:52
  rhyme or reason anymore to like, why anything gets seen. It's
• 13:57
  all. It's all. If people don't know you as for your photos
• 14:01
  there doesn't mean they're gonna like, respond more to your
• 14:04
  photos when they eventually do get Yeah, posted.
• 14:08
  Brandi Potter: It's social media is rotting our brains, because,
• 14:12
  you know, when we both started, social media wasn't as big of a
• 14:18
  thing as it is now, so we had to rely on different methods to get
• 14:22
  clients. And I don't know, it seemed a lot easier back then.
• 14:28
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, in some ways. I mean, I started a little
• 14:32
  earlier than you, and it's the I don't know social media was a
• 14:38
  way. It's always been a way for me. I mean, I'll admit it, I
• 14:42
  will do a little quick search on Google or on Facebook, whatever,
• 14:46
  for people when they inquire, just so I can see if I can get
• 14:49
  to know a little bit about them. And yeah, if they say, oh, a
• 14:53
  friend recommended me, I'm like, Oh, who was their friend?
• 14:56
  Somebody I know, somebody who was a client of mine. Or is it
• 14:59
  you? Know, those sorts of things. And then that gave me a
• 15:02
  little bit of a, I think, an edge, and made things easier
• 15:05
  than but now it just feels like everybody's pitted against each
• 15:10
  other for eyeballs, like, you know, trying to get people to
• 15:15
  even see what you do. Like, I was talking to somebody else
• 15:19
  about tick tock the other day. Like, I used to get minimum five
• 15:24
  to 10,000 views on a something I posted on Tiktok, and now it's
• 15:29
  like 100 200 maybe 300 but it's just like they're like, they all
• 15:38
  learn to like, oh, we can. It's either you have to naturally get
• 15:42
  the engagement from like saying something that's going to shock
• 15:45
  people or make them want to like comment on whatever you posted,
• 15:50
  or you're gonna have to pay us to like boost your reach. Yeah,
• 15:56
  it's just, it's a very, I don't know it's, I don't know when I
• 16:04
  started out, or even, you know, I there's a certain amount of
• 16:09
  respect that you give to the client, or to people who have
• 16:12
  been around longer than you, yeah, because they have been in
• 16:16
  the industry, or people have been around for a while. I know
• 16:18
  plenty of photographers who are not great photographers, but
• 16:23
  they have been in business for a long time, and I still give them
• 16:25
  the respect of like, hey, you've maintained a business and
• 16:29
  maintained your like, your your market, for whatever, many
• 16:35
  years. It doesn't mean that I'm think, like, I look up to them
• 16:38
  as a photographer, but I still like, Yeah, I'm not going out
• 16:41
  there and like, again, it's just, it's the shit talking of,
• 16:47
  Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. You're, you're
• 16:51
  just, you're a dinosaur. Like, I don't like the biggest one I've
• 16:59
  always kind of like, makes me laugh is the DSLRs versus
• 17:04
  mirrorless. Oh, God, you still use a DSLR Oh, you're not a real
• 17:13
  photographer. And it's like, what does that mean?
• 17:16
  Brandi Potter: What does that mean? I would still be using my
• 17:21
  mark threes if I if I could, yeah. I mean, shoot them into
• 17:26
  the
• 17:26
  Casey Fatchett: ground they Yeah. I mean, I burned out like
• 17:30
  my mark two and mark three, and I still have my mark fours,
• 17:34
  which still takes great pictures. Sometimes I use it
• 17:38
  because it does things that my mirrorless camera won't. And I
• 17:43
  can do an in camera, like, double exposure, or I can do,
• 17:46
  you know, like, that will actually, like, merge into one
• 17:50
  photo, as opposed to, like, two separate photos that I then have
• 17:53
  to, like, put back together in Photoshop or something.
• 17:58
  Brandi Potter: But mirrorless camera are you using? I have the
• 18:00
  r5 one, the r5 will do it in camera, but
• 18:05
  Casey Fatchett: it creates, what does it create a raw image? Or
• 18:07
  does it create?
• 18:09
  Brandi Potter: Oh, it does it raw? You just have to set it up,
• 18:13
  because I do doubles in camera all the time with the r5 or r6
• 18:18
  Casey Fatchett: All right. Well, I learned something new during
• 18:20
  this conversation, I'd been doing it wrong. I admit that was
• 18:23
  wrong. Look at that. But I think it's, I don't know, maybe it's
• 18:31
  that when we were coming up, you looked at elder photographers or
• 18:39
  like people with more experience as mentors or somebody who had
• 18:43
  information that they could pass along to you, and now it's sort
• 18:47
  of like, Hey, if you're not just telling me the camera settings
• 18:51
  you used your gatekeeping and you're you know, you're trying
• 18:55
  to keep me from being a success in The industry, which
• 18:59
  Brandi Potter: doesn't make any sense in my brain, because
• 19:03
  settings are like so personal and like vary so much across the
• 19:07
  board. That's another thing like I've seen a lot of newer people
• 19:11
  in the industry do, is like, your gatekeeping, because you
• 19:14
  won't tell me where this location is, or you won't tell
• 19:17
  me how you did this. And then it's like, some of us are, like,
• 19:20
  we teach this for money, like, you can pay to learn it. And
• 19:23
  they're like, No, you should just tell us, you should
• 19:27
  Casey Fatchett: just give it away, because, you know your
• 19:29
  years of experience are worth nothing. Yeah, and I don't want
• 19:32
  to, I don't want to have to actually, like, sit down and
• 19:35
  learn how to do this thing myself. That's the thing that
• 19:38
  gets me, is that there's a lot of like, I want to take the fast
• 19:43
  track, yeah, just give me the settings, then I can recreate
• 19:46
  this photo. That's all I need. I don't need your like, oh, let's
• 19:50
  learn about the methodology behind this, or the technical
• 19:58
  aspect of it that you're. Like working mind. It's one of those
• 20:02
  things I actually with the whole out of focus trend, there are a
• 20:07
  lot of people who are, like, getting into that trend, who
• 20:10
  were just doing it, like, I'm gonna focus as far into the
• 20:13
  foreground as I possibly can, and everything is gonna just
• 20:15
  look like a Wet Mirror, like one of those, not a shower curtain,
• 20:23
  but kind of like those, just like those glass, the frosted
• 20:27
  glass, nothing is in focus. And I would try to tell people like,
• 20:31
  hey, the reason that people like this thing is because it's
• 20:36
  nostalgic to this when these were the technical limitations.
• 20:40
  So if you want to create images like that, people be like, Yeah,
• 20:43
  I don't need your input. You know what you're talking about.
• 20:46
  I know what I'm talking about. I lived through that era like I
• 20:49
  actually know like you, you didn't. I did. I lived through
• 20:54
  that film camera like, time period where you were limited in
• 20:59
  your shutter speeds. And you only had one film speed that you
• 21:04
  could use. So that created things like the motion blur,
• 21:08
  because you can only use a very short like a shutter speed and
• 21:14
  or you you had, you had to, like, open it up further, just
• 21:19
  to, like, get enough light in there to make an image so you
• 21:22
  had, like, some motion blur, or things were going to focus,
• 21:25
  because you had to manually focus all the time. You didn't
• 21:27
  have auto focus. And let me tell you, like, I've been working on
• 21:31
  photos with my dog, like, with my manual focus film cameras,
• 21:35
  it's almost impossible to, like, get, you know, focus on
• 21:39
  something. So with the mean, I have a lot more respect for,
• 21:43
  like, sports photographers back in the back in the day, yeah,
• 21:46
  back in the day, who were, like, taking pictures of stuff. And
• 21:49
  just like, how do they focus on this stuff?
• 21:51
  Brandi Potter: I if I catch myself, like, being too
• 21:55
  complacent, I will only use manual focus lenses for like,
• 22:00
  smaller sessions, like my tilt shift, I have a pet saw, because
• 22:06
  you can, like, get a clear image with the tilt shift. You don't,
• 22:08
  it doesn't have to have the tilt effect in it. So I that's
• 22:13
  something I like to do, is I will only use that lens for
• 22:17
  like, smaller sessions, just so I stopped being so complacent
• 22:21
  and so, like, dependent on the digital gear. Because, like, if,
• 22:28
  if I can't even focus a camera correctly, then I shouldn't be
• 22:32
  calling myself a professional. Yeah.
• 22:34
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, there's things you just need to be able
• 22:36
  to do. And it's a, yeah, I don't know. I think there, there's,
• 22:42
  it's a very short sighted approach. Yeah, thinking that
• 22:49
  things like, it bugs me too. It's like the camera settings,
• 22:51
  like, you're gatekeeping your camera settings. Like, no, but
• 22:56
  you're not gonna like, unless you are in the same place that I
• 22:58
  was at the same like, unless we were occupying the same place in
• 23:03
  space time, it's not gonna you're not gonna get the same
• 23:06
  picture. You need to know how to do things and like, what do you
• 23:11
  think the I mean long term consequences are for
• 23:14
  photographers who try to build their brand basically on
• 23:18
  negativity instead of their work?
• 23:21
  Brandi Potter: I think they're going to hit a point where it
• 23:24
  all comes crashing down around them, and they're going to have
• 23:27
  to rebuild from the ground up. I I feel like the the negativity,
• 23:36
  because, like, I went through this too, and I hit a wall
• 23:39
  because of grief in like 2018 and then covid happened, and I
• 23:44
  felt like I had to rebuild everything I ever did from the
• 23:48
  ground up. And it's it's not fun, it's doable, but like the
• 23:52
  the people that are just like, they're isolating themselves in
• 23:56
  the industry when they should be like, trying to build a
• 23:59
  community for themselves, for support. And that, to me, is
• 24:02
  what community is all about, is just to have a support system,
• 24:06
  not to like, you know, give each other work or anything. It's
• 24:11
  just to have the support system so you have people that know
• 24:15
  what you're going through, and they're isolating themselves so
• 24:18
  much that no one's going to want to be friends with them because
• 24:21
  they're going to be scared that they're going to end up on the
• 24:24
  receiving end of one of these videos or post.
• 24:27
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, like people don't want to be like.
• 24:28
  People don't want to be your friend if like you, like
• 24:31
  everybody around you is the is a source for content. Like to to
• 24:37
  somehow, like, be a, you know, a target, but it gets it just
• 24:45
  makes you feel like you're not in a comfortable position with
• 24:50
  with people like that.
• 24:52
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, and I mean, I would 100% end a friendship
• 24:55
  over something like that, and I've ended friendships in the
• 24:59
  industry. Me that I've been friends with for years over
• 25:03
  things like this, like using me for content or whatever, and it
• 25:08
  wasn't even like an in a negative, derogatory way towards
• 25:13
  me, but like it was still my work that they were using me
• 25:17
  for. And so I it's just like they're going to hit a point.
• 25:25
  They're going to either leave the industry, or they're going
• 25:27
  to have to, like, suck it up and start apologizing.
• 25:30
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that there's
• 25:34
  Brandi Potter: rebrand completely so no one knows who
• 25:36
  they are.
• 25:37
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, without their name involved. Yeah, I was
• 25:41
  thinking about this earlier, like right before I got on this
• 25:45
  call, I was actually thinking of some really good advice that I
• 25:49
  had once received. And I feel like this might be kind of like
• 25:54
  taking it to the absolute extreme, and so that it comes
• 25:56
  around to the other end of the spectrum. Was one of those
• 25:59
  things where not really a mentor, but like some it was an
• 26:05
  older, more experienced photographer said to me, like,
• 26:08
  Well, what do you what makes you feel insecure in your
• 26:12
  photography? What do you feel is not your strength? What do you
• 26:15
  feel is like, not what you're not the best at? And I mentioned
• 26:19
  a few things. And one of them was posing people, I just, like
• 26:23
  a, and he was very good at it. And he was like, Don't mention
• 26:28
  those things. Or like, work on them. But like, at the same but
• 26:33
  at the same time, like, bring them up to what you think is an
• 26:36
  acceptable those things that you are weakest at, bring them up to
• 26:40
  a, you know, middle level. You don't have to be the best at it.
• 26:45
  You don't have to be the person that's known for this, but you
• 26:47
  need to feel a little more confident about it, like having
• 26:50
  a place where you feel okay with it, but also don't use it as
• 26:54
  your like, marketing thing, like, oh, you know, I don't know
• 26:57
  anything about about this technical stuff, but I'm going
• 27:02
  to, for some reason, I'm going to just start making it the
• 27:04
  focus point of everything I do. And I think that a lot of it has
• 27:09
  come from that insecurity of like, I don't know these things,
• 27:13
  so I'm going to make myself look like an expert, yeah, by tearing
• 27:19
  down people who do
• 27:21
  Brandi Potter: the fake it till you make it, yeah, which was a
• 27:25
  big thing when social media started being a way to get
• 27:28
  clients. Yeah, back. Not even, like, it's 2025 so, like, 2015
• 27:37
  ish, that was a huge thing.
• 27:38
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it was just like, oh, I don't know what
• 27:41
  I'm doing. And I And I've always told people, like, I still have
• 27:44
  people that I coach who are like, I don't have a lot of
• 27:47
  experience in, you know, weddings. Because a lot of
• 27:49
  people come to me talking about weddings, and it's like, I don't
• 27:51
  have a lot of experience in weddings. What do I tell
• 27:53
  potential clients and be like, tell them you don't have a lot
• 27:56
  of experience in weddings. Like, oh, that's gonna keep me from
• 27:58
  getting a job. Like, would you rather go into somebody's
• 28:01
  wedding and, like, as someone who doesn't have a lot of
• 28:05
  experience and have them, like, be like, expecting, like,
• 28:10
  someone with 1015 years of experience you don't have. And
• 28:16
  I've said this, like, it's better to be honest with people.
• 28:19
  And like, this is okay. This is why I'm only charging you $300
• 28:23
  or $500 because I haven't done much of this, you know, like
• 28:26
  this is and then you build up that experience, and you get to
• 28:31
  a place where you, you know, you don't know, talking to Susan
• 28:35
  stripling about this, and it was like, you she was saying, you
• 28:37
  know, 90% of her job is solving problems, and most of it is
• 28:42
  things that you like, you you have to experience the the
• 28:46
  problems. You have to, like, go through those things where you,
• 28:50
  like, ah, you know what? I screwed that up like, so that
• 28:55
  you really remember it in the future. Like, it's the whole
• 29:00
  thing of like, Oh, I forgot my memory cards. Well, if you ever
• 29:03
  actually do that, you should never, ever, ever do it again,
• 29:06
  because it's like, yeah, it'll become a thing. And I
• 29:09
  remembered, like, I once, it wasn't even all of my cards. It
• 29:14
  was I actually have two different I'm neurotic in that
• 29:18
  way, like I had like, two different sets of memory cards,
• 29:21
  and I had forgotten one of them. And I was like, Oh my God, my
• 29:23
  backup memory cards. I were to what I do with my backup memory
• 29:27
  cards? Like, and I was just like, This is why you bring two
• 29:30
  moron, but it's still, I will be two blocks from my house after
• 29:35
  I, like, leave to go to a wedding, and I'll be like, oh,
• 29:37
  did I remember to pack like, and I'd like, do the mentally. I'm
• 29:41
  like, yes, okay, got it? Like, it. Like, but it's when you do
• 29:44
  that once. You always remember, so you have to, like, make those
• 29:48
  mistakes. But you're going to make those mistakes when you're
• 29:51
  starting out. And I think that that's a like, there's the
• 29:53
  insecurity about making any sort of mistakes, yeah. And feeling
• 29:58
  like, oh, this person knows. More than I do, but I can't let
• 30:01
  on that I don't know as much as they do, because then I look
• 30:07
  somehow inferior, or like I'm bad at this. Like, no, you
• 30:11
  don't. You're just accepting your limitations.
• 30:13
  Brandi Potter: I experienced that at my at my retreats a lot,
• 30:18
  where someone will ask me a question because it's like my
• 30:23
  retreat, like I'm hosting it to teach, and then someone else
• 30:27
  will try to answer them like you've been doing this for a
• 30:29
  year. They don't like your answer is value, like we value
• 30:35
  your response. But right now, let me talk, and then you can
• 30:39
  talk type of thing. And it's not like to be mean or anything, but
• 30:43
  it's like I wouldn't I probably would not take advice from
• 30:49
  someone that I didn't think was my equal or higher up than me of
• 30:56
  where I wanted to be, because for me, like, experience is so
• 31:04
  important. And the the newer photographers say are, like,
• 31:10
  getting so good so quickly because of the ease of access to
• 31:14
  education that they have and the ease of access to, like, good
• 31:18
  photography, work that they have to look at and they're not,
• 31:23
  they're not going through the same hardships that we went
• 31:25
  through. And then they think that they are. They've already
• 31:29
  reached that level. They think they've already reached that
• 31:32
  level where they can start giving advice or start teaching
• 31:38
  or whatever, when they've never experienced like a real issue in
• 31:45
  their work.
• 31:46
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that that's I refer to it as the
• 31:49
  bar has really been lowered, yeah, in a sense. And you know,
• 31:52
  both technologically and with access to YouTube, training, all
• 31:58
  sorts of things. And I agree I would not take advice or, like,
• 32:04
  laugh it off from somebody who I don't respect. Like, there's,
• 32:10
  I've had plenty of people like, give me bad advice, where I'm
• 32:12
  just like, okay, sure, whatever. But there's Yeah, like you said,
• 32:18
  like, you haven't been through any hardships. You're so nascent
• 32:23
  stages. And like, I mean, I've been through my career has been
• 32:31
  through September 11 and all the stuff that followed that, the
• 32:35
  housing crisis, like all these different like, things that,
• 32:39
  just like, affected the economy as a whole, and not just my
• 32:42
  business and and all those other things. It's like each of those
• 32:47
  things taught me something. Yeah, it taught me how to and,
• 32:51
  you know, I'm not saying you have to do things exactly like
• 32:55
  me, yeah, but I've got some, I've got some knowledge I can
• 32:59
  drop on you.
• 33:00
  Brandi Potter: And and it's not to say that they what they have
• 33:02
  to say isn't valuable. It's that maybe it's not time for them to
• 33:09
  really teach or really, like, try to get that advice. When
• 33:14
  someone is asking, yeah, a veteran in the industry, some a
• 33:18
  question,
• 33:20
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, there's a, there's a sort of trying to step
• 33:25
  into somebody else's spotlight.
• 33:27
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, but I will say that I have a lot of
• 33:33
  mentees. I've mentored under me, and I think they're better
• 33:37
  photographers than I am. They've been in the industry less time
• 33:42
  than me, but they are by far, way more creative than me, and
• 33:47
  they're better photographers. They just don't know how to
• 33:51
  teach that, or they don't know how to present themselves for
• 33:57
  marketing yet. But when they do, I feel like my time is over.
• 34:03
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, there's just sort of like, there's,
• 34:04
  there's a life cycle for this that or you move into a
• 34:10
  different section of the market, like, there's something else
• 34:12
  that you're offering people. And it's, I think that that is also
• 34:15
  like, there's, there's something to be learned from that. For
• 34:18
  older photographers too, like, hey, you know, I've seen people
• 34:21
  who are still like, I'm not going to change the way that
• 34:24
  I've been doing this for 40 years. Yeah, I'm never going to
• 34:27
  change the way I do it. It's like, okay, well, world has
• 34:31
  changed quite a bit. You have to evolve with it, or get left
• 34:35
  behind,
• 34:36
  Brandi Potter: which is another thing that veterans in the
• 34:39
  industry kind of refuse to change with the times, and we
• 34:43
  see that with like, veterans refusing to do reels or Tiktok
• 34:46
  and then wondering whether views tank or why they're not booking,
• 34:49
  why
• 34:50
  Casey Fatchett: nobody's calling me. Yeah, yeah. I've tried to
• 34:53
  make it clear to a lot of people that you know, and I'm not
• 34:55
  necessarily great at it, but I do know the the real. Listening
• 35:00
  behind it is, you know, people also want to see you like they
• 35:02
  want to know the person. Because more and more younger people who
• 35:06
  are do now doing the hiring, whether you know it's for
• 35:10
  weddings or for portraits or what have you, they want to see
• 35:15
  the person that they're going to be dealing with. Yeah, they want
• 35:18
  to get a sense of who you are. And there's a lot of older
• 35:21
  photographers who are just like, I don't need to do that. I've
• 35:24
  been doing this for 40 years. You just look at my work, that's
• 35:27
  that's all you need to do. And it's like, no, you need to adapt
• 35:30
  to the times.
• 35:31
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, clients today want to know who we are.
• 35:34
  And if we're like, just spouting negativity constantly, they're
• 35:38
  going to be like, turned off by that. Yeah. But if we're, like,
• 35:41
  putting our personality into things, and, like, you know,
• 35:45
  putting ourselves out there, a lot of people really appreciate
• 35:49
  that. Like, there's a photographer who messaged me on
• 35:51
  Instagram, and she was like, I love what you say on threads,
• 35:55
  because it's so unhinged sometimes, and it like shows
• 35:59
  your personality. It was like, I say the more unhinged stuff in
• 36:02
  my close friends stories, but yeah, I'm not going to hide who
• 36:08
  I am, just to fit the mold. Yeah, I think that there's a
• 36:13
  Casey Fatchett: I think what you are describing is something that
• 36:16
  I've tried to tell people like you can let your personality
• 36:19
  show you. Just don't have to tell everything to the public.
• 36:24
  Yeah, that's, that's, I think, a line that that some, some people
• 36:30
  just don't know where that is, like, I there's a, there's an
• 36:35
  entire, like, legal battle going on with a venue right now, like
• 36:41
  that. It's insanely they're, they're like, now, like,
• 36:46
  posting, like, legal documents on their Instagram. Like, this
• 36:51
  is what's going on. And it's just like, Why? Why? Because
• 36:55
  they had, like, shut down and a bunch of weddings got canceled,
• 36:58
  and they didn't give anybody their money back. And, like, but
• 37:01
  this becomes this whole thing. I'm like, why are you like, this
• 37:03
  is all you're talking about. Like, this is all you're talking
• 37:07
  about. And like, people, do you think this is gonna win people
• 37:10
  over? Like, make them want to work with you? And it's that
• 37:16
  same sort of thing of looking at people go to it, and they want
• 37:19
  to get to know who you are. And it's one thing to be like, oh,
• 37:22
  you know, I think I'm this is something I'm really good at, or
• 37:25
  this is what my my personality is like, and I maybe we vibe
• 37:29
  together. Maybe we like you, like how my sense of humor, as
• 37:35
  opposed to be like all these guys suck. You should hire me,
• 37:39
  because I don't suck.
• 37:41
  Brandi Potter: Could you imagine if we put that, if I put Can you
• 37:45
  imagine what would happen if I put that on a reel, and I was
• 37:48
  like, hire me, because everyone else sucks. What would happen in
• 37:55
  this day? And like, a couple years ago, people probably would
• 37:57
  have thought it was a joke, but now I don't think, I don't think
• 38:01
  they would like, the other day, I was like, I really want to put
• 38:05
  on a real wedding photography for people who didn't get
• 38:08
  raptured. And my husband was like, don't, don't do that. And
• 38:13
  I was like, but it would be so funny. He was like, I don't
• 38:16
  think people would think it was funny. So I'm putting on Tiktok
• 38:19
  because, like, okay, Tiktok would think it was funny.
• 38:21
  Instagram would not.
• 38:25
  Casey Fatchett: I'm with
• 38:27
  Brandi Potter: Instagram did not think that was funny at all.
• 38:28
  Casey Fatchett: Instagram would be like, what? Yeah, what'd you
• 38:33
  do? I love that we have similar senses of humor. The I think
• 38:39
  that it's a, it's like, knowing where the lines are, like,
• 38:44
  that's a whole other thing, and I think you get better at that
• 38:47
  as you have more experience. But there's like, sort of like, I
• 38:49
  think that the people who tend to be more successful in the
• 38:57
  long run are the ones who cautiously approach that line
• 39:02
  and be like, not saying, like, don't do anything, but like,
• 39:07
  what is this and like, should I really be talking about my I've
• 39:10
  been on podcasts where they asked for like, crazy stories
• 39:13
  about clients from stuff, and I'm just like, Listen. Like, 99%
• 39:18
  of the people that I deal with are the most awesome, amazing,
• 39:22
  lovely people, but I 800 weddings, so there's like, a
• 39:25
  handful of people who are nuts, yeah. And I try to weed those
• 39:29
  out more as I get, you know, I get more experienced, I'm like,
• 39:32
  Oh, I see the red flags now and then say, like, maybe we're not
• 39:35
  a match. And just like, weird things that have happened, but
• 39:39
  I'm not going out there and like, Hey, this is their name,
• 39:43
  and I'm going to tag them on social media. And be like, you
• 39:46
  would not believe what happened behind the scenes at this
• 39:49
  wedding, which I've seen other people do, and just be like,
• 39:52
  what? Why are you or it's
• 39:53
  Brandi Potter: like, my wedding last weekend. Like, why are you
• 39:56
  saying last weekend? Why aren't you just saying a previous
• 39:59
  wedding?
• 39:59
  Casey Fatchett: What? Thing I photographed, yeah, wedding, I
• 40:02
  photographed. But now you're specifically, like, marking
• 40:05
  down.
• 40:05
  Brandi Potter: You're specifically calling people out
• 40:07
  who are probably going to tag you in the photos, and then
• 40:09
  people are going to find
• 40:11
  Casey Fatchett: that, or, like, they're going to see that. You
• 40:12
  like, wait, that was my wedding, yeah.
• 40:15
  Brandi Potter: Or you're just like, you know, there was,
• 40:17
  there's been one wedding my entire career that almost made
• 40:21
  me quit photography altogether. And it wasn't anything that was
• 40:25
  directed towards me the day of. It was just like, oh, it was a
• 40:30
  lot of stuff that happened, and then a lot of stuff happened
• 40:34
  after the wedding. And it was just like, holy shit, if I say
• 40:40
  any of the story all together, they'll know immediately I'm
• 40:44
  talking about them. So, like, when people ask me about my
• 40:47
  worst, like, wedding story, I only give them, like, bits and
• 40:50
  pieces of that day, so they can't, like, I'm
• 40:52
  Casey Fatchett: gonna tell you one crazy thing, and not all the
• 40:55
  crazy things, because then you get then I'm filling in all the
• 40:58
  variables for the equation, and they can figure out I'm talking,
• 41:01
  yeah, yeah, same, same. Or I'll tell the story. The one that I
• 41:07
  have told is usually the one that they never gonna want to
• 41:13
  claim, yeah, except that they claim that that was them. I
• 41:19
  guess there's two of those. The guy who's ready to kill me, oh
• 41:23
  yeah. After the wedding, he was told he wanted to me to, like,
• 41:29
  give him a full refund, because I was terrible. Showed up
• 41:33
  looking like a slob, wearing a suit. There are people who were
• 41:37
  at the wedding who were wearing, like, khakis and polo shirts I
• 41:41
  had a tie suit on. He was like, who's you were supposed to be in
• 41:46
  a tuxedo? Like, this was not something we discussed. But
• 41:49
  yeah, he's like, I'm gonna come up there. And because he was in
• 41:51
  Florida, and he was like, I'm gonna come up to New York and
• 41:56
  I'm gonna take care of you. And I was like, well, we mean, like,
• 41:59
  tuck me in at night and make me soup if I'm not feeling well.
• 42:01
  And he was like, No, I'm gonna fucking kill you. And I was
• 42:04
  like, great. And I was like, great. Just wanted you to say
• 42:07
  that pretty clearly, great. Good to know I'm following the
• 42:11
  authorities. And they were like, it's the pictures are so
• 42:16
  terrible, but we want these. We want these 48 by 10 prints and
• 42:20
  an album and all of these things. And it's just like,
• 42:22
  Okay, I guess the photos were really terrible that you wanted,
• 42:26
  like, physical copies of them. It was just people trying to get
• 42:29
  something for free. Yeah, I don't like to, okay, we sort of,
• 42:35
  like, I don't want to, like, make this like, no solutions
• 42:39
  like, just presenting a problem, no solutions like, what do you
• 42:42
  think? Do you think would be a more positive way for
• 42:47
  photographers to grow their careers and their community of
• 42:51
  photography? Because we, I hear people who are like, oh, you
• 42:55
  know other photographers, it's just like, they're only out for
• 42:57
  themselves. I'm like, they're I know plenty of photographers who
• 43:01
  are like, down to help other people. Yeah, that's the entire
• 43:05
  reason I do this show. It's I'm not, I'm not making big podcast
• 43:10
  bucks off of this, ladies and gentlemen. But I think there
• 43:14
  are, you know, I want to hear from you first what you think
• 43:17
  people could be. I think,
• 43:19
  Brandi Potter: I think it comes back to building a community,
• 43:24
  and people need to realize that, you know, your your friends in
• 43:29
  the industry are going to be out for themselves. They're going to
• 43:31
  be looking to book for themselves, and that's not a
• 43:34
  slight against you if you're both up for the same gig, and
• 43:39
  they book it like that's just how the industry works. And so I
• 43:45
  think when we come into it and we're trying to build a
• 43:47
  community, and we're trying to grow our audience, we we have to
• 43:51
  kind of remember that that's not about like putting other people
• 43:55
  down, but kind of like showing who we are. And I like to use
• 44:02
  threads for political things, and other photographers to like
• 44:07
  talk to people. I like to use Tiktok to meet a variety of
• 44:13
  different people and other photographers. I like to use
• 44:16
  Instagram just for photography. So I think it more client
• 44:21
  facing? Yeah, it's really important, because when we're
• 44:26
  posting, we're not posting for other photographers, we're
• 44:28
  posting for client stuff. Like, that's what we're supposed to be
• 44:34
  posting for.
• 44:35
  Casey Fatchett: Other photographers aren't hiring you.
• 44:39
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, it's like a big circle, like, if you're
• 44:41
  isolating yourself and you're being mean and you're being a
• 44:45
  jerk, like no one's going to want to build a community with
• 44:47
  you, and you're not going to get hired by anyone worthy of your
• 44:53
  services, because if they see you being mean to someone and
• 44:56
  they like that about you, they're going to be mean to you.
• 45:00
  Yeah, what's to say? They're not going to turn around and do the
• 45:02
  same thing back to you, because they expect it from you, right?
• 45:07
  So I don't know. It's a really interesting thing now, because
• 45:10
  we have so many different platforms to build community and
• 45:16
  build a business on that to put ourselves out there, like we
• 45:20
  have to know what our work looks like.
• 45:22
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah. We have where your place is in the
• 45:24
  market. We
• 45:25
  Brandi Potter: we have to be honest about what our work looks
• 45:27
  like. We have to be honest about how we're presenting ourselves.
• 45:32
  Because if you like some of my most viral videos, I look like a
• 45:36
  complete slob. So I'm surprised people hired me based on that,
• 45:39
  like we and if I'm scrolling and I see a photographer like
• 45:44
  griping or being rude about something and they don't look
• 45:49
  nice, then I'm more likely to keep scrolling past Yeah, I
• 45:54
  think we need to be conscious of literally all The things when
• 46:00
  we're putting ourselves out there and just, I don't, I don't
• 46:03
  know. It's a really hard question to answer.
• 46:06
  Casey Fatchett: You know, people could be like, kinder. I think
• 46:10
  is one word like, like, understanding that everybody
• 46:13
  like, it's, it's one of those things that I have dealt with,
• 46:18
  the insecurities and imposter and syndrome and thinking like,
• 46:21
  oh my gosh, this person does, like, such great work, or
• 46:23
  whatever. I love your work. I don't think that I'm the
• 46:26
  photographer for your clients. That's the thing. It's like,
• 46:29
  that's, that's what we how do we differentiate ourselves from
• 46:32
  other photographers? It's one thing I tell people when I'm
• 46:34
  teaching marketing, it's you, especially if you are a like,
• 46:37
  solopreneur, you're running your own photography studio, like
• 46:41
  business, you your personality and things are like the number
• 46:45
  one thing, you find the elements of your personality that reflect
• 46:50
  what clients want, and though you focus on those things, you
• 46:53
  don't just let everything out there, because, you know, yes, I
• 46:59
  live My truth and I am honest about who I am, but I'm also
• 47:03
  not, like, waking up and going like, you guys today, I had the
• 47:07
  biggest fight with my brother in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah or
• 47:11
  whatever. Like, some like, I've not, I don't tell you
• 47:14
  everything, yeah, and I don't feel the need to, like, I try to
• 47:21
  focus on the things that clients, my clients, people who
• 47:27
  are going to be interested in not just how the photos look,
• 47:32
  but how I treat my clients. Yeah, because for me, it's a lot
• 47:36
  of like making people feel calm and feel okay in front of the
• 47:40
  camera, because there are a lot of people out there who you out
• 47:42
  there who don't feel great in front of the camera. They feel
• 47:44
  like they're exposed and they feel insecure. And my thing is,
• 47:49
  like, I get what you're saying. I am there too. I'm going to
• 47:52
  make this the most comfortable experience for you. So those are
• 47:55
  the parts of my personality that I layer into things. I think
• 48:00
  that a lot of photographers need to kind of do that
• 48:03
  introspection, both in the type of photos they take and in their
• 48:10
  approach to getting hired. But it also comes off with like
• 48:14
  again, with the community of people like you, you attract
• 48:18
  people who see that you are your authentic self, and that you're
• 48:24
  not just posturing to get more
• 48:29
  Brandi Potter: to get clout. It's like I know my work. I know
• 48:33
  my portraits are not the traditional wedding portraits
• 48:37
  for the most part, and I use that to my advantage on social
• 48:42
  media, and I use that as a way to show my personality. Because
• 48:47
  I love art. I love anything to do with art. I love light. I
• 48:52
  love like color, like all of the things. And that's how I've
• 48:57
  built a community based on my work, by knowing I'm not
• 49:01
  traditional and not trying to be something I'm not on social
• 49:06
  media. And I wish I know I posted about this on threads,
• 49:11
  but I wish so badly that I could be like one of those really
• 49:15
  elegant photographers, like the really high end elegant
• 49:20
  photographers, and like, I wish I could act like that, but I
• 49:25
  can't. I'm covered in tattoos. I'm that's not my personality
• 49:30
  type. Like, I'm not, it's just not who I am as a person, and I
• 49:35
  my clients would never fit into that mold either.
• 49:40
  Casey Fatchett: Why do you want to be? All right, I'm gonna
• 49:42
  philosopher. I'm gonna lay down on the couch. Why do you why do
• 49:47
  you feel that you need to be, or want to be, that person?
• 49:52
  Brandi Potter: Those are the photographers I really look up
• 49:54
  to, because they they have integrity and online, and they
• 49:59
  have. Of poise, and their work is just out of this world,
• 50:04
  beautiful and stunning. And I know that I don't want my work
• 50:08
  to be like that, but I also know that I love the way they present
• 50:14
  themselves online, and I look at that and I like, I really look
• 50:20
  up to that in the industry full of, you know, negativity, they
• 50:25
  leave most of their life offline, and I try to leave most
• 50:29
  of my life offline too. But I'm still, like, very political,
• 50:33
  very into activism, and so that that will never be me. What is
• 50:41
  my work? True? Non traditional?
• 50:43
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah. It's part of who you are. And I think
• 50:45
  that presenting yourself not like again, I try to find
• 50:54
  phrasing that works. But I think being your authentic self is,
• 50:58
  you know, like, it's really important because in he's like,
• 51:02
  you said, you can look up to people whose work you don't want
• 51:05
  to necessarily emulate, but like how they present themselves, how
• 51:09
  they carry their business. There are some people who, when I was
• 51:15
  like that, I used to look up to that. I then like, as they went
• 51:18
  along, I was like, oh, no, no, no, that's not like, no, that's
• 51:23
  not good. I don't I don't agree with that. And then I was like,
• 51:30
  okay, but then finding other people who I thought were, like,
• 51:33
  a you see how I would say, is it for, like, building community,
• 51:41
  one of the most important things you can do is go to things in
• 51:45
  person.
• 51:46
  Brandi Potter: And no, I don't think you take I don't think you
• 51:50
  really have to do that. To be honest, I met most of my friends
• 51:53
  online. We built a relationship online before we ever met in
• 51:58
  person, and so by the time we met in person, we were already,
• 52:02
  like, really, really good friends, I think in today's day
• 52:05
  and age, I'm glad we didn't listen to our parents when they
• 52:10
  told us just stranger danger online. But like most of my best
• 52:15
  friends, I met on social media, or I met because they saw my
• 52:18
  work on social media and they hired me, and so I don't really
• 52:25
  describe
• 52:27
  Casey Fatchett: I think that I have many friends, like who I
• 52:30
  consider very close friends who I have still not met in person.
• 52:35
  What I'm saying as far as, like one A and maybe it's because of
• 52:38
  where I am being in, like, the New York City area, there's a
• 52:42
  lot going on in there as a higher concentration, I will
• 52:45
  accept that maybe I have a different experience, yeah, than
• 52:53
  people who are in other areas, like I said, I still have, like,
• 52:56
  very people I consider very good friends, who I've never met in
• 52:59
  person. But one of the things that being in person has taught
• 53:06
  me, I think, because I tend to be a very shy person, until I
• 53:12
  get to know people, and then I'm a little more boisterous and
• 53:18
  vocal, it kind of pushed me out of that comfort zone and that
• 53:27
  the being, you can be a keyboard warrior when you're like, just
• 53:32
  sitting behind the screen, but when you go and like, see people
• 53:34
  who are and you also get to see how people really like react to
• 53:38
  someone like going and seeing a photographer who you sort of
• 53:42
  admire and watch them teach a, you know, a workshop or
• 53:46
  something, and you're sitting there going, like, what this is
• 53:49
  not? This doesn't match up. Or you're like, wow, they're even
• 53:52
  like, they're even cooler in person. And most people are
• 53:58
  pretty approachable. And I got over my fears of talking to
• 54:02
  somebody and feeling like I was gonna make a fool of myself just
• 54:05
  by going up and talking to them. And have made some very good
• 54:09
  friends. And you know, at my age, it's harder to make
• 54:15
  friends, but I feel like I've made friends with people by,
• 54:19
  like, being there in person and like, it not just somebody who
• 54:24
  is in the comment section. Yeah, I think that that that was a
• 54:29
  bridge that got me there faster in some instances. I will agree
• 54:34
  with you today that online is you can still have great
• 54:38
  friendships and community online, you don't have to meet
• 54:41
  people in person. I think that when you do meet in person, it
• 54:47
  has a different it creates a different bond.
• 54:50
  Brandi Potter: Yeah, I'm also very introverted. So like,
• 54:55
  meeting people in person, it takes a lot out of me. Like,
• 54:58
  when I host my retreats, I need, like. Like, a lot of time
• 55:01
  afterwards to decompress from having people around for so
• 55:08
  long. Like, I had a, like, a full week last week of like,
• 55:11
  seeing people every single day. And I told my husband, I was
• 55:15
  like, I need a day where I don't see anybody else.
• 55:19
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, well, I was just, there was a post I
• 55:23
  just saw on threads yesterday. There was somebody like, thing,
• 55:26
  oh, it was a wedding planner who was saying, you know, I'm seeing
• 55:29
  more and more people seat the photographers with, you know, at
• 55:36
  a table. And I was, I wanted to say them, like, there's other
• 55:40
  people have already, like, really dove into this, but I
• 55:44
  don't want to be seated with people. It's just like, I need
• 55:47
  to recharge my battery. I have been I too am like, you know,
• 55:53
  introverted and like, have this, like, my social battery has
• 55:58
  probably depleted by that point. And then I sit at a table, and
• 56:01
  they're all, you're gonna be like, Hey, can be like, Hey, can
• 56:02
  we see some of the photos, or how what they all want to, like,
• 56:05
  ask me questions about, like, what I've been doing all day.
• 56:07
  And I'm like, It's not that I don't like you. It's just that
• 56:12
  I'm really uncomfortable in this situation right now because I'm
• 56:17
  and there have been times where I was photographing a friend's
• 56:21
  wedding where they put me at the table and like, people, and
• 56:25
  those people knew me, and they so they weren't, like, barraging
• 56:30
  me with questions. And, you know, I was able to sit eat,
• 56:35
  have my meal very while I'm constantly, like, they all kind
• 56:39
  of like, laugh about me, like, constantly watching, yeah, if
• 56:43
  something's gonna happen, and then like, getting up and, like,
• 56:45
  leaving the table, Oh, I saw something going on over in the
• 56:48
  corner that I needed to photograph, and they just kind
• 56:50
  of, like, chuckle about it. But there's no like, oh, well, see
• 56:53
  you later. Like that you get from, like, people who don't
• 56:55
  know you, and they feel like they need to, like, oh, let's
• 56:57
  all, you know, have a big conversation. And I'm like, I I
• 57:00
  don't have the energy for it right now.
• 57:02
  Brandi Potter: You know, I commented, I commented on that
• 57:04
  thread this morning, and I was like, you know, it depends on
• 57:06
  where they put me, like, if I have a clear view of the couple,
• 57:09
  yeah, yes, I want to be at the table. Um, even if it means
• 57:13
  people are talking to me while I'm trying to eat. Uh, quickly,
• 57:16
  but just because I know that the next day I'll get off and can
• 57:21
  decompress. I was a cheerleader, which might surprise you, for
• 57:26
  like, 12 years, and so it's been really easy, especially at
• 57:30
  weddings, for me, to turn it on and off, of, like, the social
• 57:34
  anxiety and like, being in work mode versus being my normal
• 57:38
  self.
• 57:39
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I was an actor, so it's like, there's
• 57:41
  there, but I part of the reason I want to, like, talk about
• 57:44
  this, like, I don't want people to think that I'm putting on an
• 57:47
  act, yeah, but there's, there is a little bit of, like, code
• 57:51
  switching that goes on. Like, when people are just like, hey,
• 57:55
  I'm like, hi everybody. Like, I don't know you. When, I know the
• 58:00
  people I feel like, like, I said, like, way more comfortable
• 58:03
  being in that situation. All right, I think we got a little
• 58:07
  off track, but we're gonna bring it back around. If you had one
• 58:12
  piece of advice that you could give to someone who was like,
• 58:17
  I'm gonna chase clout by being unhinged or by tearing other
• 58:24
  people down, what would you tell them to focus on instead?
• 58:28
  Brandi Potter: I would, I would give this advice to anyone
• 58:31
  trying to build a platform on any social medias, to stop
• 58:36
  copying everyone else and to try to come up with your own niche,
• 58:41
  your own little thing that works for your business, because it's
• 58:47
  going to take a while. Is not an instant thing. When I was trying
• 58:52
  to build up my Tiktok account, it took me like, six months to
• 58:58
  figure out what worked on my account, on what didn't, and you
• 59:03
  have to actually like post for that, yeah, versus not just like
• 59:08
  throwing up a post once a week and then expecting it to go
• 59:10
  viral because you were mean in it. So my advice for building
• 59:16
  any sort of platform for social media is to you have to post
• 59:20
  consistently. You have to figure out what what works for you
• 59:23
  without copying other people doing the exact same thing,
• 59:26
  because a lot of our work looks the exact same, right? You have
• 59:31
  to stand out in some way, and a lot of times you do that by the
• 59:38
  words you post with your
• 59:39
  Casey Fatchett: work, the way that you present the
• 59:43
  Brandi Potter: yeah, the way that you present yourself
• 59:45
  online, that is how you stand out when there's a sea of
• 59:48
  photographers doing the exact same thing as you,
• 59:52
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, and it's like, I tell people sometimes
• 59:55
  I'm very kind. With couples who come to me and I'm like, I don't
• 1:00:00
  think we're a match. I don't think that, like, what you're
• 1:00:04
  looking for is not what I do. But I know somebody who does
• 1:00:09
  that thing, and I can, I will be happy to recommend them to you
• 1:00:13
  if you want, or whatever. But there's like, something about
• 1:00:18
  being humble in yourself and being like, Hey, this is what I
• 1:00:22
  do well, and this is what I don't do well. And also, like,
• 1:00:26
  there's a million photographers out there, you know how you, we
• 1:00:31
  kind of said this earlier, how you set yourself apart is by who
• 1:00:36
  you are and how you choose to present who you are and and how
• 1:00:40
  you present your work, it's not by doing. I mean, trends are
• 1:00:45
  such a like, I don't know there's, there's, there's some
• 1:00:49
  things that I like, I'm fine with, like, if it's a joke or
• 1:00:53
  whatever, like, I find okay. But it's sort of like, if
• 1:00:57
  everybody's doing the same presentation of their work, then
• 1:01:02
  you really just like you're not separating yourself at all from
• 1:01:06
  the, you know, the the ocean of possibilities. And to do that,
• 1:01:11
  you have to do the the work on yourself. Like, I know it sounds
• 1:01:16
  very like therapy oriented, but it's like, you have to sit down
• 1:01:20
  and think about your business. I know it's difficult. It's not
• 1:01:25
  the sexy part of the job where you were, oh, I'm taking photos,
• 1:01:30
  and this is the great part I'm getting paid. It's, were you
• 1:01:34
  doing the research on yourself? And, yeah, where you are in the
• 1:01:39
  market. So that's what the mentees my mentees are the first
• 1:01:43
  one of the first things I say, like, well, where's your place
• 1:01:48
  in the market? And they're like, What?
• 1:01:51
  Brandi Potter: Yeah. But you know, if everyone's telling the
• 1:01:55
  same exact joke, it's not funny anymore, right? And so people
• 1:01:59
  are getting like fatigue from being told that things are, for
• 1:02:06
  example, things are documentary style photography when they're
• 1:02:09
  clearly posed. Yeah? And clients don't know what that means
• 1:02:13
  anymore, because photographers are not being introspective
• 1:02:16
  about their own work. Yeah? They're just using a word, yeah.
• 1:02:19
  They're just using buzz words, yeah,
• 1:02:22
  Casey Fatchett: that's been going on for a while. When I see
• 1:02:25
  people like, I am a photojournalistic style, and I'm
• 1:02:28
  like, okay, as someone who was a photojournalist at one point,
• 1:02:33
  what does that mean to you? And they're like, oh, it means
• 1:02:35
  candid. I'm like, we should just say candid, because people know
• 1:02:38
  what that means, right? Photojournalism is more about
• 1:02:40
  telling a story. I suppose, like you that that, and if you want
• 1:02:45
  to, like, tell the story, what's going on there. That can also
• 1:02:49
  dip into editorial. There's different ways editorial, you
• 1:02:52
  have more influence on what's going on. You're telling a
• 1:02:55
  story, but you're there's interaction going on, and, yeah,
• 1:03:00
  knowing what the words actually mean and how you would describe
• 1:03:03
  your work, as opposed to just like, I'm gonna throw out a few
• 1:03:06
  buzzwords here, and hopefully you'd like to hear that those
• 1:03:10
  words
• 1:03:11
  Brandi Potter: and like, knowing, if you desaturate all
• 1:03:13
  your greens and all your color, you are not A true to color
• 1:03:16
  photographer, like, just being very clear about your own work
• 1:03:24
  is so important,
• 1:03:26
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, you have to know, like, what you do,
• 1:03:29
  yeah.
• 1:03:37
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  Notes, because peace of mind is priceless. That's nerdy
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  photographer.com/backblaze because you never know when a
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  crash is going to happen. Hey, photographers, are you tired of
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  using the same stale poses with your clients, resulting in stiff
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  and unnatural photos you should be using the nerdy
• 1:04:54
  photographers, let's be real. Prompts instead. Prompts are not
• 1:04:59
  a list of poses. They're designed to help you create more
• 1:05:01
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• 1:05:05
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  for couples, engagements, weddings, families and even
• 1:05:11
  individuals, ensuring that you never run out of ideas using
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• 1:05:18
  and dynamic images, but it will also increase your confidence
• 1:05:21
  and your clients confidence in you, you'll be able to handle
• 1:05:24
  difficult situations and subjects with ease, resulting in
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  more satisfied clients and a stronger business. So start
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  take your photography to the next level.
• 1:05:42
  Unknown: Hey, now for my favorite part of the show,
• 1:05:46
  what's that? Say? Useless information. This is always
• 1:05:52
  death.
• 1:05:54
  Casey Fatchett: True or False. One of our first presidents,
• 1:05:58
  John Adams, had a dog named Jesus. I'm gonna say true false.
• 1:06:04
  His talk really, his dog was actually named Satan. I love it.
• 1:06:10
  I think that fits with his personality. Brandy, thank you
• 1:06:15
  so much for coming back on the show, where can people find you
• 1:06:18
  and find your work and on the different platforms.
• 1:06:23
  Brandi Potter: My website's brandy with an i dash potter.com
• 1:06:28
  and then my Instagram is brand dot Potter. And then tick tock
• 1:06:34
  is from dot moonlight.
• 1:06:37
  Casey Fatchett: Go out and find her folks. Those those links
• 1:06:39
  will be also in the Episode Notes. If you ever want to come
• 1:06:44
  back, you know you're always welcome,
• 1:06:47
  Brandi Potter: always, well, we'll end next year. Yeah,
• 1:06:49
  Casey Fatchett: we'll do we'll make this a yearly thing,
• 1:06:52
  Brandi Potter: yeah, we'll see how next year goes.
• 1:07:02
  Casey Fatchett: Wow, welcome back, listeners. I hope you
• 1:07:04
  enjoyed my conversation with brandy Potter, and hopefully you
• 1:07:07
  learned a few ways to better spend your time on the internet,
• 1:07:09
  like going to the Episode notes and giving brandy a follow, or
• 1:07:13
  how about leaving us a review that would be a very positive
• 1:07:16
  way to spend your time on the internet, as well as being sure
• 1:07:18
  to follow the nerdy photographer on the social medias at the
• 1:07:22
  nerdy photo. That's at the nerdy photo. Okay, F 2.0 Are you
• 1:07:27
  feeling a little less aggressive after listening to that
• 1:07:29
  conversation? Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?
• 1:07:34
  And on that note, until next time, stay safe and stay nerdy.
• 1:07:39
  You.
• 1:07:49
  Unknown: Who's your heart been beating about? Get better. Get
• 1:07:55
  better. Get better. Get better. Listen, you.