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Strait Talk: The Impact of Middle East Conflict on the World's Oil Pipeline · Thinking Transportation: Engaging Conversations about Transportation Innovations

• 0:14
  Allan Rutter: Howdy everyone, welcome to Thinking Transportation, conversations about how we get ourselves and the stuff we need from one place to another.
• 0:22
  Allan Rutter: I'm Allan Rutter with the Texas A&M Transportation Institute.
• 0:28
  Allan Rutter: In many of my elementary school classrooms, I can remember a globe somewhere.
• 0:33
  Allan Rutter: The most prominent color was the green or blue that represented the oceans, and there was a lot of it.
• 0:38
  Allan Rutter: When it comes to sailing across something so big, it turns out that ships follow basically the same routes.
• 0:45
  Allan Rutter: Today we're going to talk about what happens when those ocean and coastal routes get interrupted by natural or manmade forces.
• 0:52
  Allan Rutter: Before we get started, a quick note for our listeners.
• 0:56
  Allan Rutter: Today we'll be discussing the impacts of recent global disruptions on ocean shipping and those effects on major supply chains.
• 1:04
  Allan Rutter: This is not a podcast about politics or military affairs, so we won't be discussing why these disruptions are happening or for how long.
• 1:13
  Allan Rutter: We'll talk about how disruptions across the globe are affecting shipping routes, energy flows, and operations at U.S.
• 1:19
  Allan Rutter: ports and waterways.
• 1:20
  Allan Rutter: Today I get to talk to a return guest, Vince Mantero, the director of TTI's Center for Ports and Waterways.
• 1:30
  Allan Rutter: We'll include a link to the previous episode where he took over the center's leadership, as that podcast allowed him to introduce himself more fully.
• 1:38
  Allan Rutter: Vince, thanks for joining us today on the podcast.
• 1:47
  Vince Mantero: Great to join you, Allan. Looking forward to the discussion.
• 1:48
  Allan Rutter: So as we look across global shipping, there are multiple disruptions happening which seem to be layering on top of each other.
• 1:56
  Allan Rutter: From your perspective at the Center for Ports and Waterways, how should we understand what's going on?
• 2:03
  Vince Mantero: Well, you're right.
• 2:04
  Vince Mantero: When you step back, these disruptions really start to stack up.
• 2:08
  Vince Mantero: And before we get into specifics, it's worth remembering that the ocean isn't this wide open, go anywhere space.
• 2:16
  Vince Mantero: You know, global shipping actually moves through a surprisingly small number of lanes, almost like highways at sea.
• 2:23
  Vince Mantero: So when one of those highways gets blocked or threatened, there aren't many detours.
• 2:28
  Vince Mantero: So I would say this moment is best understood as a system-wide shock, affecting, I would say, three major choke points at the same time.
• 2:36
  Vince Mantero: The first is the Strait of Hormuz, which has been in the news.
• 2:40
  Vince Mantero: It's the entry into the Persian Gulf.
• 2:42
  Vince Mantero: The second is the connection of the Gulf of Aden to the Red Sea, leading to the Suez Canal, and finally the Panama Canal.
• 2:50
  Vince Mantero: So the Strait of Hormuz handles most of the world's largest flows of crude oil and liquid natural gas or LNG.
• 2:58
  Vince Mantero: The Red Sea and the Suez Canal are the main Asia-Europe artery.
• 3:02
  Vince Mantero: And the Panama Canal is really that Atlantic-Pacific balancing valve.
• 3:08
  Vince Mantero: So when each of these comes under strain, you know, global shipping loses flexibility and resulting in longer routes, higher costs, and reduced schedule reliability.
• 3:19
  Allan Rutter: So how unusual is the current level of disruption?
• 3:24
  Vince Mantero: Well, I would say exceptionally unusual.
• 3:26
  Vince Mantero: In March, vessel traffic through the Strait of Hormuz has fallen to only a handful of ships, with some days seeing zero movement compared with typical daily flows of, geez, well over 100 vessels.
• 3:40
  Vince Mantero: Satellite and carrier data confirmed this dramatic collapse in normal activity.
• 3:45
  Vince Mantero: And historically, there had been early disruptions, but they've only removed a small share of global oil flows.
• 3:52
  Vince Mantero: Today's situation really affects a quarter that normally carries roughly one-fifth of global petroleum supply.
• 4:00
  Vince Mantero: And this disruption is several times larger than earlier shocks.
• 4:05
  Allan Rutter: That would explain why everybody's so alarmed by it.
• 4:08
  Allan Rutter: Let's start with the Strait of Hormuz.
• 4:11
  Allan Rutter: What's going on there?
• 4:13
  Vince Mantero: Well, the strait usually moves close to 20 million barrels of oil per day.
• 4:18
  Vince Mantero: And so after the strikes and security warnings, major carriers-- including Maersk, MSC, HayPAC Lloyd, and CMA CGM-- they all suspended transits and they forced oil and LNG vessels to anchor or even to divert around much longer routes.
• 4:37
  Allan Rutter: So this volatility in the oil market is affecting prices of the commodity and commodity futures.
• 4:45
  Allan Rutter: Domestically, prices of gas and diesel have also jumped sharply.
• 4:50
  Allan Rutter: Is that connection emotional or something real?
• 4:54
  Vince Mantero: You know, there's always some market psychology or emotion, but I would say the spike is really driven mainly by physical constraints.
• 5:03
  Vince Mantero: Long-haul tanker rates from the U.S.
• 5:05
  Vince Mantero: Gulf Coast to Asia have surged, more than doubling.
• 5:09
  Vince Mantero: And they've reached some of the highest levels in years, which directly raises those delivered fuel costs.
• 5:15
  Vince Mantero: But I would say it's not just energy.
• 5:17
  Vince Mantero: These disruptions are spilling into agriculture too.
• 5:20
  Vince Mantero: The Red Sea and the Suez Canal instability has slowed grain shipments from the Black Sea region southbound through the Suez Canal into the Middle East and North Africa.
• 5:31
  Vince Mantero: And detours around the Cape of Good Hope, which is on the southern tip of Africa, have been adding 10 to 14 days to transit time and also raising transport costs.
• 5:42
  Allan Rutter: You just mentioned movement through the Suez and the Red Sea.
• 5:47
  Allan Rutter: We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a moment.
• 5:50
  Allan Rutter: But you mentioned that in addition to oil, constraints on vessels carrying liquid natural gas or LNG.
• 5:58
  Allan Rutter: Tell us more about that particular commodity movement.
• 6:01
  Vince Mantero: Well, LNG flows have tightened sharply.
• 6:04
  Vince Mantero: You have the Ras-Lafon facility in Qatar.
• 6:08
  Vince Mantero: It's one of the world's most important LNG hubs.
• 6:11
  Vince Mantero: And it's experienced operational disruptions, and carriers have suspended Hormuz transits due to risk and insurance constraints.
• 6:19
  Vince Mantero: Europe and Asia have increasingly turned to the U.S.
• 6:23
  Vince Mantero: Gulf Coast LNG as a substitute.
• 6:26
  Allan Rutter: Good news for the Gulf Coast of Texas, not good news for just about anybody else.
• 6:32
  Allan Rutter: Right.
• 6:32
  Allan Rutter: You mentioned constraints on grain shipments from Black Sea ports, but I'm also reading that Middle East energy also fuels production of ammonia and other nitrogen-based fertilizers along the Persian Gulf.
• 6:46
  Allan Rutter: Are we seeing impacts beyond energy into fertilizer and other agricultural inputs?
• 6:52
  Vince Mantero: Oh, absolutely.
• 6:53
  Vince Mantero: I mean, fertilizer shipments have been disrupted as well.
• 6:56
  Vince Mantero: Disruptions near Hormuz have held up fertilizer vessels, raising concerns among agricultural groups throughout the northern hemisphere about timing and availability during these planting seasons.
• 7:08
  Vince Mantero: Almost a third of global seaborne fertilizer trade moves through the Strait of Hormuz.
• 7:14
  Allan Rutter: Wow.
• 7:15
  Allan Rutter: So I can understand why the focus on this particularly narrow strip of water that goes in and out of the Persian Gulf.
• 7:23
  Vince Mantero: Right.
• 7:23
  Allan Rutter: Now, given U.S.
• 7:24
  Allan Rutter: oil production, which we in Texas are very much well aware of and brag about, why can't we offset these impacts?
• 7:33
  Vince Mantero: Well, simply because the U.S.
• 7:34
  Vince Mantero: is part of a global market.
• 7:36
  Vince Mantero: Let's say Asian refiners lose Middle Eastern supply, they then pivot towards U.S.
• 7:41
  Vince Mantero: Gulf Coast, which bids up prices here at home as well.
• 7:46
  Vince Mantero: And at the same time, as Qatar's LNG volumes fall, more global buyers turn to U.S.
• 7:52
  Vince Mantero: LNG, which again tightens domestic natural gas balances, too.
• 7:57
  Vince Mantero: And on the petroleum side, it's important to remember that the Gulf Coast refineries are configured for heavier crude, much of which still comes from Canada and Mexico.
• 8:06
  Vince Mantero: So even though we produce a lot of light crude domestically, we still import those heavier barrels.
• 8:12
  Vince Mantero: So when global oil prices rise, the cost of those imported barrels rise too.
• 8:19
  Allan Rutter: So it sounds like part of what we're talking about today is the extent to which everything is interconnected on those narrow sea lanes across our vast oceans.
• 8:29
  Vince Mantero: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 8:31
  Allan Rutter: We've been talking about one major water connection into the Middle East, the Persian Gulf.
• 8:36
  Allan Rutter: Let's get back to that other connection, the Red Sea and the Suez Canal.
• 8:41
  Allan Rutter: What's been happening there and for how long?
• 8:44
  Vince Mantero: Well, for a number of years, Middle Eastern instability has really increased risk for this Asia-Europe container traffic through the Suez.
• 8:51
  Vince Mantero: And those container movements are down significantly, and not a surprise.
• 8:56
  Vince Mantero: Many carriers continue to reroute again around the Cape of Good Hope.
• 9:02
  Vince Mantero: Again, these add a week or two to Asia-Europe voyages.
• 9:05
  Vince Mantero: Even limited return attempts have been reversed due to resumed attacks and this elevated risk.
• 9:12
  Allan Rutter: So are container carriers now treating the Cape route as the new normal?
• 9:18
  Vince Mantero: You know, I would say increasingly yes.
• 9:20
  Vince Mantero: After repeated disruptions back in '24, and obviously this year, many carriers are now planning their schedules around the Cape as the safer, more predictable default.
• 9:31
  Allan Rutter: Yeah, it's crazy to think about the Cape of Good Hope as a dependable routing when you think about the history of maritime.
• 9:39
  Allan Rutter: Does this affect more than containers, though?
• 9:42
  Vince Mantero: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:43
  Vince Mantero: I mean, rerouting adds long distances for grain, for fuel, for LNG shipments.
• 9:49
  Vince Mantero: And data from the, I think it was the UN Conference on Trade and Development and even other industry assessments show ships traveling much further for the same loads.
• 10:00
  Vince Mantero: And this increases ton mile demand.
• 10:02
  Vince Mantero: And finally, it raises system-wide costs.
• 10:06
  Allan Rutter: So, because global shipping operates as a connected system, and that's going to be a common theme through our conversation, those longer detours you've just talked about don't just affect Europe and the Middle East.
• 10:17
  Allan Rutter: They ripple across Asia as well, including some of the world's busiest maritime corridors.
• 10:24
  Allan Rutter: Let's talk a little bit about Asia.
• 10:26
  Allan Rutter: The Strait of Malacca between Singapore and Indonesia.
• 10:30
  Allan Rutter: Tell us a little bit about that and its connection to the South China Sea.
• 10:35
  Vince Mantero: Well, the Straits of Malacca and Singapore continue to remain one of the busiest corridors linking basically the Indian Ocean to the South China Sea.
• 10:44
  Vince Mantero: You know, it's already a tight, narrow passage in normal conditions.
• 10:48
  Vince Mantero: And traffic has become even more concentrated as ships reroute around the Red Sea.
• 10:54
  Vince Mantero: And so that added volume reduces flexibility on the strait and increases pressure, really on one of Asia's most important maritime corridor and one of its choke points.
• 11:06
  Allan Rutter: I've also read that the Taiwan Strait between mainland China and Taiwan is also a major marine route.
• 11:13
  Allan Rutter: What more can you tell our listeners about that?
• 11:16
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, so the Taiwan Strait-- and again, it's only about 80 miles across its narrowest point--it's a major route for raw materials and energy to China, to South Korea, and to Japan.
• 11:28
  Vince Mantero: It's also the major route for container shipping for Chinese ports.
• 11:32
  Vince Mantero: You know, aside from Singapore, the other two of the three busiest container ports in the world are in China, north of the strait.
• 11:40
  Vince Mantero: So the strait is a major shipping crossroads.
• 11:44
  Allan Rutter: Okay.
• 11:44
  Allan Rutter: Let's shift across the ocean for just a minute.
• 11:47
  Allan Rutter: You mentioned at the start of our conversation three major choke points: the Strait of Hormuz, the Red Sea, and the Suez Canal.
• 11:54
  Allan Rutter: Let's talk about the Panama Canal.
• 11:56
  Allan Rutter: How does that fit into all of these matters?
• 12:00
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, so the Panama Canal is constrained by drought, and that limits how many ships can transit each day.
• 12:08
  Vince Mantero: And then that alone tightens global routing options.
• 12:10
  Vince Mantero: On top of that, earlier this year, Panama's Supreme Court annulled CK Hutchins's longstanding port concessions at the Balboa terminal on the Pacific side and the Kriegsabog terminal on the Atlantic side.
• 12:23
  Vince Mantero: And so to keep operations stable, the government assigned APM terminals and Terminal Investment Limited to run them on an interim basis while a new concession process is developed.
• 12:34
  Vince Mantero: You know, I only mention this because this created uncertainty around operations and also complicates C.K.
• 12:40
  Vince Mantero: Hutchins' proposed global portfolio sale.
• 12:44
  Vince Mantero: You know, stable terminals matter because they anchor global rerouting decisions.
• 12:49
  Vince Mantero: When choke points like the canal are strained, carriers look for reliability anywhere they can find it.
• 12:56
  Vince Mantero: But uncertainty around terminal operations adds a whole nother layer of friction to an already stressed system.
• 13:04
  Allan Rutter: Now, we've been talking a lot about global shipping of materials involved in energy and agriculture and components and products that move in intermodal containers.
• 13:13
  Allan Rutter: All of this is part of supply chain management, which is defined as the strategic end-to-end coordination of planning, sourcing, manufacturing, logistics, and returns to transform raw materials into finished goods and to deliver them to customers.
• 13:33
  Allan Rutter: It optimizes that across an entire network from suppliers to final consumption to maximize value, minimize cost, and improve efficiency.
• 13:42
  Allan Rutter: Or at least that's how it's all defined.
• 13:44
  Allan Rutter: As the final stage of our supply chain discussion of shipping disruptions, let's consider the real test of resilience that shows up in ports and waterways that keep the U.S.
• 13:56
  Allan Rutter: economy, especially along the Gulf Coast.
• 13:59
  Allan Rutter: How are these disruptions showing up or affecting Texas ports?
• 14:05
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 14:06
  Vince Mantero: I mean, Texas is at the center of this global rebalancing.
• 14:11
  Vince Mantero: Texas ports --especially Houston, Corpus Christi, Freeport, Port Arthur, Texas City, and even Sabine Pass --serve as major energy export gateways.
• 14:22
  Vince Mantero: When Middle Eastern supply becomes unreliable, Asian refiners turn to U.S.
• 14:28
  Vince Mantero: Gulf Coast crude, and they tighten schedules and they raise traffic levels.
• 14:32
  Vince Mantero: And with Qatar's LNG output constrainted, global buyers have increased demand for U.S.
• 14:38
  Vince Mantero: coast's LNG.
• 14:41
  Allan Rutter: So how does this affect the domestic side?
• 14:44
  Vince Mantero: Well, domestically, you know, the vulnerability isn't usually about Texas port capacity.
• 14:49
  Vince Mantero: These are high throughput gateways built to handle large volumes of crude LNG chemicals, dry bulk, and containers.
• 14:57
  Vince Mantero: I think the real constraint shows up in those inland links that feed the port.
• 15:02
  Vince Mantero: As we saw in the 25 floods, that was made clear when highway and rail access to, for example, Corpus Christi, Houston, and Galveston were temporarily severed.
• 15:14
  Vince Mantero: These delayed exports and slowed more than 25 million tons of dry bulk and essential materials, those facilities move each year.
• 15:22
  Vince Mantero: And you know, there's been progress since then.
• 15:24
  Vince Mantero: Galveston has been completing major repairs.
• 15:26
  Vince Mantero: Corpus Christi finished its ship channel upgrade in 2025.
• 15:31
  Vince Mantero: And the region continues to invest in improving drainage, rail access, and highway resilience after the storms.
• 15:38
  Vince Mantero: But you know, those floods made it clear how dependent port operations are on the inland road and rail corridors that feed them.
• 15:46
  Vince Mantero: These corridors still face vulnerabilities.
• 15:49
  Vince Mantero: And that could be from severe weather, could be high congestion, or even aging infrastructure.
• 15:54
  Vince Mantero: And that really creates operational pressure, even when the ports themselves are ready.
• 15:59
  Vince Mantero: So I would say when global choke points tighten, any inland disruption in Texas can also quickly amplify system-wide delays.
• 16:08
  Allan Rutter: It sounds like whatever's going on within Texas is connected to what's going on in the rest of the world.
• 16:15
  Vince Mantero: Absolutely.
• 16:17
  Allan Rutter: Let me ask you to put on your global shipping wizard hat and warm up your crystal ball.
• 16:23
  Allan Rutter: Do you see these disruptions as temporary or are they more structural?
• 16:29
  Allan Rutter: And you know, you won't be graded on this.
• 16:31
  Allan Rutter: And if, of course, if you could predict that, you'd be out in the stock market.
• 16:35
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, I think so.
• 16:36
  Vince Mantero: All right, I'll put on my my wizard hat.
• 16:39
  Vince Mantero: And I'm looking into that crystal ball, and I see it as a rare moment when, you know, several of the world's critical corridors are stressed at the same time.
• 16:49
  Vince Mantero: And to answer your question, I'd say these disruptions may be more structural than temporary.
• 16:54
  Vince Mantero: I mean, analyses have shown ships traveling significantly farther for the same cargo volumes; you know, a sign that longer routes could persist until these global choke points stabilize.
• 17:08
  Allan Rutter: Yeah, that's certainly the case for what you described about rerouting longer transits around the Red Sea and Suez.
• 17:16
  Allan Rutter: That's been going on for years, and people have managed to figure out "we'll just put up with the increased costs."
• 17:23
  Vince Mantero: Right.
• 17:25
  Allan Rutter: So as we think about what's going on next, what would be indicators or signals or flags that we should look for that help us understand when things might be getting better?
• 17:39
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, so I would look at maybe three key indicators.
• 17:43
  Vince Mantero: Number one, we've talked about a little bit, is the number of vessels going through the Strait of Hormuz.
• 17:49
  Vince Mantero: If that doesn't change, then we realize where things are.
• 17:53
  Vince Mantero: The other one is any routing patterns through the Red Sea.
• 17:58
  Vince Mantero: Again, I refer back to what we talked about versus the Suez and the Cape of Good Hope.
• 18:03
  Vince Mantero: Are we still seeing that routing pattern going south?
• 18:07
  Vince Mantero: And finally, I would say look at the water levels and the availability of slots in the Panama Canal.
• 18:14
  Vince Mantero: Again, I think that's one of the key indicators.
• 18:17
  Vince Mantero: I would say also keep an eye on the Strait of Malacca because traffic density there often tells us how carriers are adjusting when other choke points tighten.
• 18:26
  Vince Mantero: And more broadly, I would also say conditions in the Taiwan Strait matter too.
• 18:31
  Vince Mantero: It continues to be one of Asia's busiest corridors.
• 18:34
  Vince Mantero: So, you know, any change in traffic patterns there is another signal of stress in the system.
• 18:39
  Vince Mantero: So together, all of these reveal the real-time stresses on the global maritime system.
• 18:46
  Allan Rutter: So I can imagine sort of we're at the bridge of a the global shipping ship, and these are our dials that we're going to be keeping an eye on to let us know whether sailing will be smoother or it's going to be rougher seas ahead.
• 19:01
  Vince Mantero: Exactly.
• 19:03
  Allan Rutter: Before we wrap up, for listeners who aren't in the maritime world, how does this matter to us?
• 19:08
  Allan Rutter: How does this matter to somebody who's listening who doesn't follow this stuff all the time?
• 19:13
  Vince Mantero: That's a great question.
• 19:15
  Vince Mantero: So we've gone around the world, but I would say the impacts are local.
• 19:19
  Vince Mantero: Global shipping is invisible until something goes wrong, and then we all feel it.
• 19:24
  Vince Mantero: Almost everything we rely on fuel, fertilizer, food imports, consumer goods, industrial materials.
• 19:31
  Vince Mantero: These move through just a few maritime corridors.
• 19:35
  Vince Mantero: And when those corridors come under pressure, even far from home, it shows up here as higher prices, longer waits, and less predictable supply.
• 19:43
  Vince Mantero: But, you know, the takeaway isn't that everyone needs to follow shipping news.
• 19:48
  Vince Mantero: It's recognizing that the system we depend on isn't automatic.
• 19:52
  Vince Mantero: And that resilience comes from a mix of things.
• 19:54
  Vince Mantero: Part of it is stronger infrastructure, invest in ports and waterways and rail and highway links that keep cargo moving, even when global routes get strained.
• 20:05
  Vince Mantero: But resilience also comes from better coordination, more transparent data, and giving supply chains that flexibility to absorb these shocks without breaking.
• 20:16
  Vince Mantero: So when we understand how these supply chains really work, we're in a better position to act early instead of reacting late.
• 20:25
  Vince Mantero: And that difference between proactive and reactive is what really helps consumers, businesses, and communities get through these periods of disruption without being caught off guard.
• 20:38
  Allan Rutter: Yeah, it strikes me that hearing about that, the importance of strengthening freight networks multiple modes, that's the very thing that our partners of the Texas Department of Transportation are involved in right now.
• 20:52
  Allan Rutter: They are in the process of updating what is called the Texas Freight Mobility Plan.
• 20:58
  Allan Rutter: Congress expects these plans to be redone every four years.
• 21:03
  Allan Rutter: And TxDOT is in the process, as we release this episode, of conducting some workshops, particularly aimed at private sector stakeholders, to gain input on what kinds of corridors matter the most to your industries.
• 21:18
  Allan Rutter: And so part of what you've helped us understand today, Vince, is how Texas freight is connected to that worldwide network and what kinds of things need to be considered and planned for.
• 21:33
  Allan Rutter: So as you talk about the importance of planning for the future, the good news is that here locally, Texas Department of Transportation, who has had a track record of really excellence in freight planning, is underway in an update of getting ready for adjusting our freight plans to fit this future.
• 21:54
  Vince Mantero: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:54
  Vince Mantero: I echo those comments.
• 21:56
  Vince Mantero: I think Texas and TxDOT clearly understand.
• 21:59
  Vince Mantero: The importance of freight and freight movement to the economy.
• 22:05
  Vince Mantero: They understand the importance of their ports.
• 22:07
  Vince Mantero: They understand the importance of the connectivity to the ports.
• 22:11
  Vince Mantero: And I agree with you between the Texas Freight Mobility Plan, the work of the Texas Freight Advisory Committee, I think they really are on the forefront of really tackling these issues and understanding the importance of freight for the state.
• 22:26
  Vince Mantero: So I agree with you.
• 22:28
  Allan Rutter: So, Vince, you've really helped us understand a whole lot about global shipping and how it matters to us.
• 22:33
  Allan Rutter: Clearly, this is something that's important to you.
• 22:36
  Allan Rutter: Tell us a little more about what gets you to work every day.
• 22:41
  Vince Mantero: Well, first and foremost, it's the people.
• 22:43
  Vince Mantero: I get a chance to work with you, Allan, and all our colleagues.
• 22:46
  Vince Mantero: It's just exciting to kind of bounce ideas off each other, talk about these issues.
• 22:52
  Vince Mantero: But I am proudly kind of modally agnostic in many ways.
• 22:57
  Vince Mantero: I love talking about freight transportation.
• 23:00
  Vince Mantero: I love talking about how all these pieces interact.
• 23:05
  Vince Mantero: I love to talk about kind of, well, why is rail important to highways, to important to maritime?
• 23:12
  Vince Mantero: What about our waterways?
• 23:13
  Vince Mantero: So, you know, the more I get a chance to talk about this and everybody's dependency on each other and the overall supply chain, that's really what brings me in each day.
• 23:25
  Vince Mantero: It's not solely focused on kind of one mode, one silo.
• 23:29
  Vince Mantero: It's really talking about the system as a whole and how it really impacts all of us and why it's important to talk about that.
• 23:36
  Allan Rutter: Well, we're glad you're here with us.
• 23:38
  Allan Rutter: We're glad you're part of the freight team at TTI, and we really appreciate you spending time with us today.
• 23:44
  Vince Mantero: Thank you, Allan.
• 23:45
  Vince Mantero: Thank you for having me on again.
• 23:47
  Vince Mantero: It was a pleasure.
• 23:50
  Allan Rutter: Before they had satellites for positioning and weather, mariners navigated by the stars and looked to the sky for signs of changes in the weather.
• 23:58
  Allan Rutter: Amidst so much confusion and world affairs, today we may struggle to find our way or predict the future.
• 24:05
  Allan Rutter: Vince helped us look for signals and signs in the chaos to help us know when things are looking better for our global supply chain.
• 24:13
  Allan Rutter: Thanks for listening.
• 24:16
  Allan Rutter: If you liked what you heard or learned something, please take just a minute to give us a review, subscribe, and share this episode.
• 24:24
  Allan Rutter: I invite you to join us next time for another conversation about getting ourselves and the stuff we need from point A to point B.
• 24:32
  Allan Rutter: Thinking Transportation is a production of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, a member of The Texas A&M University System.
• 24:42
  Allan Rutter: The show is edited and produced by Chris Pourteau.
• 24:45
  Allan Rutter: I'm your host, Allan Rutter.
• 24:47
  Allan Rutter: Thanks again for joining us.
• 24:49
  Allan Rutter: We'll see you next time.