Latest / WTF to Unstuck™ with Clint Williams / Finding Joy in the Entrepreneurial Journey with Kat Irwin
Transcript
- Clint Williams: Hello, friends. Today I have the pleasure of talking with Kat Irwin. She is a personal positioning strategist who works with solopreneurs who want to be the obvious choice, not just the loudest one. We actually met over a digital coffee around this time last year, and I'm so pleased that we have stayed in touch. Fun fact Kat was my very first client after I launched my WTF to Unstuck Diagnostic last year. So it's super exciting. that she's on the podcast today. Welcome, Kat. It's good to see you. Kat: Hello, thank you for having me. And it's so interesting. Clint Williams: Of course, of course. Kat: Yeah, it's so interesting that you just told me that I was the first your first client in that thing. It wasn't obvious at all. Like it seemed you really knew what you were doing and you'd done it a few times before. So it's good feedback. Clint Williams: Well, thank you. Thank you. That's very kind. I I thoroughly enjoyed working with you last year. It was wonderful. And it's so exciting Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: to see too, you know, over the course of a year how after that initial diagnostic, you made some changes. I made some changes to the diagnostic. And then, you know, a year later, we're both working really what I feel like with the people that we were are meant to work with. But that hasn't looked exactly the way that it did 12 months ago. Which is that entrepreneurial journey where you iterate as you go and you find your audience. So it's exciting to be here. Kat: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's definitely been a journey since last year. I do feel like we're both in different, very different places. I remember on our coffee chat that you were still figuring it out and trying to find the direction. And then when I spoke to you a few months later, I could see that you had started figuring stuff out and you were more a bit more alive. And I think probably the same with me, that when we spoke Clint Williams: Yes. Kat: last year, I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I knew that I needed to make a change away from web design, but or just design in general. But I was very much in the WTF part of your of the name. and I think Clint Williams: Right. Kat: the after the consultation, like the sort of strategy that you gave me was really like my Bible for a couple of months. Like I had it on my desk. I was always referring back to it. And it just Clint Williams: Wonderful. Kat: I think having the accountability to just be like, yeah, you can do this. This makes sense. and these are your Clint Williams: Sure. Kat: steps. So yeah, it was really incredible. So thank you. Clint Williams: Well, you're more than welcome. I've been following along for the last year and I love, your posts and I get your newsletter and all this information. it seems like now, not that you didn't appear happy last year, but I feel like you're happier Kat: Hm. Clint Williams: this year. I know that I'm happier this year and in where my life is and my business Kat: Yeah, no definitely. Clint Williams: is. And also, you know, I think that that's a nice segue into this question that I had sent over earlier. So Kat: Hm. Clint Williams: You had mentioned on one of our calls, I'm not sure which one, that happiness is wanting what you have. So my question to kick off this conversation is how Kat: Ha ha Clint Williams: do you hold that close while you're building a business that now allows you to price your services at more of a premium rate? even the Kat: Mm-hmm. Clint Williams: direction of your business has changed a little bit in our conversation before we hit record today. So I want to know, Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: What is that happiness that's wanting what you have? Let's talk about that. Kat: Yeah, so I can't remember where I heard the quote or who it was from. And it was like Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want. So it's like this Clint Williams: Mm. Kat: idea that we're always striving towards or we're in the pursuit of something that's always over there when we're like here, Clint Williams: Right. Kat: when actually this is the fun part that we should Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: be in not always be like waiting for that, enjoy what you have. And I think that's 'cause even if you think about on a day to day basis, if you say This coffee is so good. I really want to have this coffee today. Stuff simple things, then Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: makes you realize that you are actually living the life that you've been building for all this time. think about myself five years ago, I would have wanted to be in this position, and then 10, 20 years Clint Williams: Yeah. Kat: ago. But when I'm doing those things, I'm like, I just want to get to that point, that we're looking for. And I think Clint Williams: For yeah. Kat: it's yeah, exactly. I was like, when am I gonna get there? That like I've achieved. The thing that I'm working towards. And I think Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: it's been really important for me to remember that this year when I am starting a new business and it's a really different direction from work that I've done before. it's been a roller coaster. There's been a lot of like Clint Williams: Yeah. Kat: ups and downs, and like, is this gonna work? Yeah, I think this is gonna work. Like, but I don't know, kind of thing. and Clint Williams: Right, right. Kat: trying to think that this is the fun part of building a business. I think about in five years when everything's working, I'm gonna look back in this and be like, what a great story, So why not enjoy the story now? So that I guess it's Clint Williams: Right. Kat: an even better story in five years. So yeah. Clint Williams: Yeah, and if we're not if we're not enjoying it, what's the purpose of all of these ups and downs, right? There's there's easier ways to get through life, it feels like. Or or or Kat: Exactly. Yeah. Clint Williams: appearing it appears that there might be easier ways. But like, you know, at the end of the day, you go to sleep Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: at night and you're like, I did this thing today and it's gonna do this for me tomorrow. I feel Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: at peace. Or maybe not even at peace. Maybe it's just okay, that's good. Like it was hard. Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: It might have sucked today and tomorrow might suck, Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: but it's mine and I'm building it. So I love that. Yeah. Kat: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think the okay, it kinda sucks today. I I guess I get stuck in that feeling like, when does it feel like it's not gonna suck? But then I need to remind myself, Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: no, I put myself in this because I like to challenge myself. I like to grow from the things that suck. So rather Clint Williams: Yes. Kat: than thinking this really sucks, be like, haha, this is a good challenge, you know? Think how strong you're gonna be in a few years. Clint Williams: Yes, right. Kat: So just reframing it. yeah, and it's helped me a lot, I Clint Williams: Yeah, I love that. Kat: think. this year especially when I've been super stressed, just be like, no, this is the fun part of building a business. yeah, just Clint Williams: Uh-huh. Kat: enjoy it. I'm still stressed though sometimes. it doesn't remove all the negative feelings. Clint Williams: No, I in fact even this morning I was doing some I'm trying to practice more positive self-talk, which is super awkward because it doesn't feel it just feels weird. And I've been doing Kat: Hmm. Yeah. Clint Williams: the question and answer for myself, are you feeling this way? Yes, I'm feeling this way. Are you feeling this way? And it's kind of interesting to to sit with that and then afterwards, it's not that anything has changed, except that I've answered my own questions and it allows my brain to move on a little bit. and that's just, you know, it it goes back to what you mentioned before. Like you you're you're doing the work, you're practicing it. It may not get easier, but at least it's you're doing it. So I love that. Kat: Yeah. I think the way that you think about the things that you're doing is really important. if you always think I'm so busy and I'm so stressed and I have so much to do, then you won't like enjoy it so much. I was speaking to someone recently who said Kat, you always feel like you're in a hurry. what are you what Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: are you in a hurry for? I've just got so much to do. And she's like, Yeah, but you're gonna do the same amount of things if you're in a hurry or if you're not in a hurry, today I have to finish Clint Williams: Mm. Kat: that client project. And if I'm like, my god, I have to finish that client project, I'm gonna feel like I'm always in a hurry. What do you like, what are you in a hurry for? So I think just changing Clint Williams: Wow. Kat: how you think about it as well, like works. Clint Williams: Sure. Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: How do you see that how do you see that your mindset towards that shows up in the way that you're working with your clients? Kat: probably that's a good question. I think when I notice stuff with myself like this, then I can also notice it with them a bit more. because Clint Williams: mm-hmm. Kat: I think a lot of that's what I'm finding, a lot of the work that I'm doing around positioning is like very personal to people, why they started their business and their values and like what they don't like about the industry. But I think noticing myself and my own mindset helps me notice how other people are approaching stuff as well. I guess when it comes to content, like posting online. is a scary thing to do and it is like putting yourself out there. and I guess like seeing how my clients I guess think about that. Like it is scary and just allowing that feeling as well. Yeah. Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you've touched on something interesting because I think it's that ability. I fully believe that so many things come back to our ability to empathize with somebody else and to be Kat: Hmm. Clint Williams: able to put ourselves in their shoes. And I think as somebody who is advising or coaching clients, which you and I both do, we have to be able Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: to inhabit that mindset and go, wow. They're probably feeling X. And then if we say that out loud, are you feeling X? It resonates Kat: Mm. Clint Williams: with them and it really allows us to even go deeper, right? And the only reason that I think you and Kat: Yeah. Clint Williams: I can do that is because other people have spoken that into our lives as well. but I think without that, it just it's too performative. And I'm trying to not be performative anymore in my in my late 40s. Kat: Mm. Clint Williams: Yeah, appe apparently some yeah. Kat: Yeah, you know, we all get there. Yeah. But it's definitely yeah. But I feel like this performative word is really interesting also because a lot of my clients think about that with their own marketing, it doesn't Clint Williams: Mm. Kat: feel before they do the positioning work and the strategy, it doesn't when they're talking about their services online, it feels performative or braggy or they have to Clint Williams: Yes. Kat: follow the script of all the things to say. and Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: that's what I really love about the work that I do is like helping people, I guess, find that confidence as well. I think you said at the beginning, clearer, not louder. And I work Clint Williams: Yeah, huh. Kat: with people that are very good at what they do but very humble about it and very self-reflective. and I do it to myself Clint Williams: Yes. Kat: as well, that even when I'm very good, I can see all the reasons why I'm bad. But that's a good thing if I use it for getting better. But I think then we can get stuck there and not use it to getting better, but use it to holding us back. Do you know what I mean? Clint Williams: Yes, I do. Yeah, that's very interesting. So Kat: Yeah. So it's good it's good to be self aware, but then use that self awareness for moving forward, not staying still. Yeah. Clint Williams: Right. So the people that you're working with you're finding that they are very much experts in their field and maybe just don't know how to position themselves so that they can really notch up instead of Kat: Mm. Clint Williams: competing with people who maybe are just noisy and loud and have more ad dollars, right? Yeah. Kat: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like the people who s feel so confident on social media and it feels like they're so comfortable like being themselves online. And then the people I work Clint Williams: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kat: with are a bit more like quieter and like, or A a few things that I've heard from people is that they think they're boring. which I've also thought that about myself. no, you're Clint Williams: mm-hmm. Kat: not boring. Just figure out what people like to hear from you. I think no one is boring. Clint Williams: Right. Kat: but we all have this when we see influencers who have these crazy Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: lives and they do all these weird stuff and I'm like, no, I'm here in my office every day. My life is not that interesting. Yeah. So it's fine Clint Williams: Right. Kat: pulling out the parts of you that are really interesting. so that then Clint Williams: Yeah. Kat: you can feel comfortable talking about what you do online, basically. So yeah. Clint Williams: I like that. And the influencer thing is so interesting because I've looked at those and thought, wow, they must have so much money. And then the other voice in my head goes, That would suck to have to film every second of my life and spend hours Kat: my god, yeah. Clint Williams: posting it and then hoping that I get, that brand deal with somebody else. And then I have to commit to that and I have to execute that. No, thank you. Kat: Yeah, Clint Williams: There's a place for it and I'm sure people do wonderful work. I mean, I know they do, but it's not for me. And it's you know, it's just Kat: yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. Clint Williams: that doesn't sound like the life that I want to build for me. So yeah. Kat: Exactly. Yeah, I think it's it can be really powerful, but documenting so much of your life, lots of people don't really want to do that. and even when it comes to promoting your own business, a lot of people don't really want to be on social media all the time. So it's about Clint Williams: don't. Kat: trying to get what you're doing on social media as effective as possible. So you don't have Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: to be there all the time. Yeah. Clint Williams: No, and and we were talking before we started recording. the thing that you're talking about on social media does not have to be broad when you're well positioned, right? You're talking about the Kat: Hmm. Clint Williams: same thing all the time. And eventually Kat: Ha ha Clint Williams: that audience will be there. Like your friends may get bored of it, but we're also not trying to work with our friends. So yeah. Take an unsubscribe. That's exactly right. Kat: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And they can always unsubscribe. I don't care. It's fine. Yeah. Clint Williams: Ha ha. Kat: no, exactly. I heard this quote recently. I can't remember from who, but it was it's not working until you're really sick of it. So it's this idea that you have to c keep repeating yourself. And I mean, most of the Clint Williams: Yeah. Kat: time no one is reading every single thing that you're writing. even if you have very loyal subscribers, they're probably not gonna, get everything. And it might go in and then it goes out. So you have to keep repeating the same things over and over again until people kind of get it, until you're sick of it Clint Williams: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kat: and you want to throw it out the window and everything. but I would say there's also so that you don't get sick of it, there's also ways that you can change it, so that Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: what I do with my clients now is trying to incorporate like their daily lives and their interests into their business Clint Williams: Mm. Kat: so they can actually talk about stuff that they're they're really passionate about. Clint Williams: Sure. I love that. Kat: But relate it back to their business in some way and their services. because I feel like a lot of the time with content, people are saying you need to talk about this and this, and then people feel too stuck in this little box that they have to follow, which is not Clint Williams: Mm-hmm. Kat: fun if you want if you're a creative and you want to be writing and Clint Williams: No. Kat: yeah, so it's just about finding what you're interested in and then making that relate to your business and then saying it over and over and over again. Clint Williams: Yeah, no, I love that. I saw something the other day, you have to see something like fifty times before it starts to really cement in your mind. Kat: wow. I've heard But it might depend on like the type of client and the type of product as well. But like sometimes it'll be seven, sometimes yeah. I think it's maybe seven until you you trust the person, maybe not until you buy. Clint Williams: That's true, yeah. Or the platform or things like that. makes sense, yeah. Kat: I guess you wouldn't buy from someone that you've only seen seven posts from. But maybe after seven posts you'd be like, okay, And then Clint Williams: Yeah, that's true. Kat: yeah. So you need at least seven to build a trust. Yeah. Everyone trusts you. It's fine. Clint Williams: It's it's Okay, well thankfully I'm there. You are too, that's great. Kat: Job done. Yeah. We can give up now. It's fine. Clint Williams: Yes, all right. I can retire. This is great. I don't know what I'll live on, but I can retire. That's true, that's right. my gosh, that's so funny. Kat: Yeah. No. But people trust me, so it's okay. Yeah. Clint Williams: It has been such a pleasure talking with you today. I want to ask you before we go, how do people find Kat: Mm-hmm. Clint Williams: you? if they want to learn more about what you're doing and the work that you're doing, what's the best place for them to go? Kat: probably LinkedIn at the moment. I'm most active there. So it's Kat Erwin on LinkedIn. or my website, which is kat-irwin.com which I'm constantly updating Clint Williams: at that kat-irwin.com Kat: with my new services. there's some good stuff on there, so have a look. Clint Williams: Absolutely. Okay, great. I will link those in the show notes as well. it's been such a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for being on the show and I Kat: Thank you. Clint Williams: wish you all the best. Kat: And you too, of course. Thank you for having me. This is great. Clint Williams: Thank you. All right. Bye.