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Ignatius of Antioch to the Ephesians · The Reformed Corner

• ignatius: This episode of the Reformed Corner podcast is brought to you by Squirrelly Joe's Coffee. Hello everybody, welcome back to the Reform Corner Podcast. We're jumping back into the Apostolic Fathers. Last time we finished Clement, then we jumped in a bit a bit of a tangent with the creation story in Genesis, and now we're getting into Ignatius. We're going to be interfacing with Ignatius. We got our alliteration in there. So Eli, thank you for joining. Yeah. Of course, happy to be here. We get to talk about one of the most based church fathers. That's right. The most based church father. And why do you say that? 'cause he's he's just so good on everything. He is so good on everything and he took it to his grave. He did. He is bold as a lion, you might say. Bold bold as a lion. Yes. one of the cool parts about this is that all of these letters are written at the end of his life. So you can see the fulfillment of his theology in the letters that are being presented. Exactly. So this this is gonna be a great episode, it's gonna be a ton of fun. quick housekeeping stuff to get away, get out of the way at the beginning. don't forget to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all that good stuff. if you're watching on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe. I said leave a comment on the podcast, right? You said for all the non-Youtube yeah entities like comment subscribe everywhere you see it follow along we gotta get this podcast going out there we want to show people that Protestantism is not actually in agreement in disagreement get that wow in a disagreement someone's gonna clip that yeah okay Protestantism is in the most agreement with the early church of all the branches. Yeah, we d we can look at the church fathers and they can be themselves. Yeah. we don't have to gloss over their errors. we don't have to hold them up to a higher higher standard than they ought to be held. but we can venerate them properly. How do we venerate them properly? by honoring them as our fathers in the faith. my goodness. Yes. Well you used the V word. I did. I used a V word. I used a swear. Anyway, follow along. Don't forget to to like, comment, subscribe. head over to squirrelyjoes.com, use code corner for fifteen percent off your first order. Good cup of coffee. it's too late in the evening for us to be having a cup of coffee. But if you join us for our Saturday morning live streams, we're always enjoying a fresh cup there 'cause we need it. We need to be awake in the morning. and also I've got something coming up here pretty soon that I could use some of your sport on in traveling. And so if you wouldn't mind heading over to my buy me a coffee, drop drop me a few bucks and maybe I can make this. I'm I'm almost funded. I almost funded. I think I'm gonna be able to make this trip. That would be it's gonna be a a a fun discussion with a prominent Roman Catholic apologist, me and a bunch of other Protestants versus him. And I'm really looking forward to It's gonna be it's gonna be good. I am also looking forward for Protestant Protestantism to be utterly vindicated. That's right. and also last thing is I started a Discord server. if you guys wanna join the membership on YouTube or Patreon, you'll get access to the Discord server. We have various different tiers. we're gonna be having a book club going on there, we're gonna be having secret society meetings, it's gonna be great. We're gonna plan how we take over the world. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be great. because none of this theology should stay theoretical. It should all be practical and lived out in your lives. And more than that, something I'm looking forward for the Discord is that I'm re dropping a lot of e ebooks on there so you can read the the church fathers, the reformers, the medieval fathers, 'cause they're all very fascinating. Yeah. And you should read them in their own words, not in summaries. Mm-hmm. summaries are great, but you should actually try and howdat it's on. Yeah, so it's gonna be a great place to to hang out with other guys that are like minded as you on these man, this chair. I this chair spits. I might be able to buy a new chair to support the beverage. My goodness. Jeez. Okay. Anyway, I wonder why you don't just use this chair over here. because it I can't get close enough to the microphone with that chair. Doesn't tuck under the table enough. Yeah, the problems of having a i an ext extensively tight budget trying to run a podcast. so yeah i supporting the show will help out. Yeah, it'll help keep the lights on. it help help keep us warm in the winter, cool in the summer, 'cause my goodness, we tried the starting this podcast in the summer and it got hot. Anyway, that is enough begging for your alms. Let's jump in to Ignatius. You you could pay your dues, you know. Yes. Tithe the lion. Tithe your indulgences, all that good stuff. Yes. Anyway, so Eli Who's who's Ignatius? Well, Ignatius is one of the best people in the Apostolic Fathers, partially because we just have, you know, seven letters from him. So he's we can understand him better than someone like Clement, who only has one letter to one group of people. But a little bit about him, Athanasius of Antioch. He was born right around thirty five AD, somewhere between thirty-two and thirty seven. Usually where people place him. he dies in December eight. And he writes a collection of letters while en route to his martyrdom in Rome. So he's considered one of the most important of the Apostolic Fathers next to Clement of Rome and Polycarp. Why why do you think he was such an important father? I think part a large part of it is because he was a student. with polycarp of John. Yeah. so church history holds that early in Ignatius's life he was convinced of the doctrine of Christ and he became friends with Polycarp and studied under John. Yeah. The revelator. And there there's another really fascinating legend about him. We don't know the veracity of these claims. but legend has it that Ignatius was the child that Jesus called to him in Luke chapter 18 when he said, let the little children come to me, and he placed a child on his lap and blessed him. legend and tradition says that it was Ignatius, but as far as I understand, that's a late tradition. Yeah. But it's still a cool one. Pretty cool, yeah. and so yeah, he was a very important figure. And the church in Antioch was a very important church. It was the it was founded by the Apostle Peter, and from what I understand, it was the very first church. Founded by Peter before he moved to Rome later. so hugely influential person, Ignatius, in a very influential church. he was martyred in like you said, one hundred eight, one one seven, one hundred eight by the Emperor Trojan. how'd he die? that's a and he writes that he's going to be thrown to the beast. So torn limb from limb. Mm-hmm. Yeah. By the the lions in the arena, in all likelihood. Yeah. And so it's really amazing to read these martyrs because they know what they're going through. Yeah, they know what they're going to, and they don't do it fearfully. They don't do it hopelessly. he was apparently there was a rescue attempt or th they they had talked about trying to rescue him. And he said he said no. He said, th this is this is how I go home. And so he didn't he didn't res he didn't resist martyrdom. He faced it boldly. And as we sing in the Son of God goes forth to war, may we follow in his train. that that's what we desire as well to face God's providential plans for our lives boldly, even if that means martyrdom and persecution. I'm a big fan of the church calendar, so I'm gonna mention his feast day is October seventeenth. That was a few weeks ago now, so we we missed it. Just I think we were talking about Luther at the time. But anyway, yeah, so his feast day is October seventeenth. what were the central thrusts of his letters? Yeah, so a lot of what he's dealing with with and with all of the apostolic fathers is schism and dissension within the church. This is one of the reasons when you read Ignatius, he is all about submission to the proper authorities, which would be bishops within the churches. So we're gonna read through Ephesians tonight, and it starts out very explicitly for the bishop. Ignatius' letter to the Ephesians letter to the Ephesians, Ignatius Ignatius' letter to the Ephesians, yes. and he is all about Christian unity. And submitting to proper leadership. so and he also talks about giving thanks, how he we need to walk in the footsteps of apostles, specifically he mentions Paul and that we need to reject the rulers of this age. So talks about that. he talks about Christ in human f God in human form. I believe that's chapter nineteen. And it closes with a wonderful farewell to the body of the church in Ephesus. So it kind of gives us a brief overview of Ignatian's letter Ignatius' letter to the Ephesians. All right. Stop giving your hard earned money to pagans. Look, we are Christians, we are reformed Christians, and all of us love coffee. But every dollar you spend on coffee is a vote for what you value. Instead, choose coffee roasted by believers who share your convictions. Why fund the enemy's kingdom when you can keep the money in house? But not only that, Squirrely Joe's makes fantastic coffee. So far I've tried three of their blends. This here is peace, but my personal favorite is the Covenant Dark Roast. You've reformed your theology. Now it's time to reform your coffee. Head over to squirrelyjoes.com and use code CONRER at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's squirrelyjoes.com and code corner. C-O-R-N-E-R at checkout for 15% off your first order. It supports the show, it supports a great Christian family, and it tastes amazing. Now, back to the show. I think we're just gonna read through this and then talk talk about it afterwards. Yeah, so we got twenty-one chapters plus an introduction salutation. So I'll go ahead and start reading this. It takes about ten minutes or so, so it's not terribly long. give you some nice audiobook reading for your drive. That's right. All right. Ignatius, who is called Godbearer, to her blessed with greatness by the fullness of God the Father, to her predestined before the ages, to be always for constant, unchangeable glory, united and chosen through genuine sufferings by the will of the Father and Jesus Christ our God based. To the church mentioned predestined to the church, worthily blessed, which is at Ephesus in Asia, abundant greetings in Jesus Christ and in blameless joy. Chapter one Welcoming in God your much loved name, which you possess by your righteous nature according to faith and love in Christ Jesus our Savior. You are imitators of God, having rekindled by the blood of God your related task, you completed it perfectly, for hearing of my being sent from Syria as a prisoner for the sake of our common name and hope, hoping by your prayers to attain to fight the wild beasts in Rome, so that by the experience I might be able to be a disciple. You were eager to see me. Therefore, since I received your whole congregation in the name of God in the person of Anesimus, a man of ins inexpressible love, and who is your bishop, I ask in the name of Jesus Christ that you love him and all of you to resemble him, for blessed is the one who has graciously granted you for who are worthy to obtain such a bishop. But concerning my fellow slave Barus, by the will of God, Your deacon who is blessed in all things, I desire him to stay for your honor and the bishops, and also for Crocus, who is worthy of God and of you, who are the embodiment of love I received from you. He has relieved me in every way. May the Father of Jesus Christ refresh him in the same way. Together with Onisimus, Burus, Eplus, and Fronto, in whom I have seen you with all in love. May I have joy in you always, if indeed I am worthy. Therefore it is fitting in every way to glorify Jesus Christ, who has glorified you, so that you so that having been put into proper condition in one act of obedience and have and being subject to the bishop and to the counsel of elders, you may be sanctified in every way. I do not give orders to you as if I am someone important. For if I am also a prisoner because of the name I am not yet complete in Jesus Christ, for I am for now I am beginning to be a disciple, and I speak to you as my fellow disciples, for I need to be anointed by you with faith, admonition, and patience. But since love does not permit me to be silent concerning you, because of this I have taken it upon myself to encourage you, so that you may run together in harmony with the mind of God. For even Jesus Christ are inseparable life, the mind of the Father, all as also the bishops who have been appointed throughout the world are in the mind of Jesus Christ. Therefore it is fitting for you to run together in harmony with the mind of the bishop, which indeed you also do, for your counsel of elders, which is worthy of the name and worthy of God, thus is attuned with the bishop, as strings to the lyre. Because of this, you in your unanimity and harmonious love, Jesus Christ is sung. Now you must join the chorus, each of you, so that being in harmonious unanimity, taking your pitch from God, you may sing in unity, in one voice, through Jesus Christ to the Father, so that he may also hear and may recognize you through your good actions, being members of His Son. Therefore it is useful for you to be in blameless unity, so that you may always also Always share with God. Or if in a short time experienced such or I for if I in such a short time experienced such fellowship with your bishop, which was not human but spiritual, how much more do I count you blessed who are so united with him as the church with Jesus Christ, and as Jesus Christ with the Father, so that all things may be harmonious in unity. Let no one be deceived unless someone is within the sanctuary. He lacks the bread of God. For the prayer of one or two has such great power, how much more that of both the bishop and the whole church? Therefore he do who does not join with the congregation, this one is already arrogant and has distinguished himself, for it is written, God appro opposes the proud. Let us be careful, therefore, not to oppose the bishops so that we may be subject to God. And the more one sees the bishop being silent, the more one should fear him, for everyone whom the master of the house sends to manage his own house, it is necessary for us to welcome him like this, as the one who sent him. Therefore it is clear that we might regard the bishop as the Lord himself. Therefore indeed Onesimus himself highly praises your good discipline in God, because you all live according to the truth, and that no heresy dwells among you, but you do not even so much as hear anyone. unless he speaks truthfully about Jesus Christ. Super based. Yeah. For some are accustomed to bear the name with wicked deceit, doing some other things unworthy of God, whom it is necessary for you to shun as wild beasts. For they are rabidly mabid for they are rabidly mad dogs that bite stealthily. It is necessary for you to be on guard against them, as their bite is hard to cure. There is one physician Both fleshly and spiritual, born and unborn, God in man, true life and death, both of Mary and of God, first subject to suffering and then free of suffering, Jesus Christ, our Lord. Therefore, do not let anyone deceive you, indeed, as not even you have been deceived, belonging completely to God, for when no strife is firmly rooted among you, which is able to torture you, then indeed you do live according to God. I, your humble sacrifice also dedicate myself to you, Ephesians, a church of eternal renown, the fleshly ones are not able to do spiritual things, nor the spiritual ones fleshly things, so too neither faith the things of unbelief, neither unbelief the things of faith. But even what you do according to the flesh, this is spiritual, for you all for you do all things in Jesus Christ. But I have learned that some from elsewhere have passed by having evil doctrine. Your ear did not permit them to sow among you your ears, being plugged so that you might not receive what was sown by them, as being stones of the temple of the Father, having been prepared for the building of God the Father, hoisted up to the heights by the crane of Jesus Christ, which is the cross, using as a rope the Holy Spirit, and your faith lifts you up, and love is the way that leads to God. Therefore you all are also Fellow travellers, God bearers, and temple bearers, Christ bearers, bearers of holy things, having been adorned in every way with the commandments of Jesus Christ, in whom also I rejoice greatly. I have been considered worthy through what I write to converse and to rejoice with you, that you love nothing in human life except only God. But you also pray unceasingly on behalf of others, for there is in them a hope of repentance that they may find God, and Therefore, allow them at least by your deeds to be disciples, in response to their anger, your gentleness, in response to their arrogant rhetoric, your humility, in response to their abusive speech, your prayer, in response to their deception, your steadfast faithfulness, in response to their violence, your gentleness, not being eager to imitate them. Let us be found to be by gentleness their brothers and sisters, and let us be eager to be imitators of the Lord. Who was treated more unjustly? Who is more cheated? Who was more rejected? So that some weed of the devil may not be found in you, but with all purity and self control you may remain outwardly and inwardly in Jesus Christ. These are the last times. Therefore let us not be ashamed er therefore, let us be ashamed, let us fear the patience of God, that it not turn into our judgment. For either let us fear the coming wrath, Or let us love the present grace, one of the two, only to be found in Christ Jesus, to the true life. Apart from this one, let nothing be pleasing to you, in whom I carry about these changes, my spiritual pearls, in which it may be granted to me to rise up in your prayer, of which may it be granted to me always to be a sharer, that I may be found in the lot of the Christians of the Ephesians, who also have always agreed with the apostles in the power of Jesus Christ. I know who I am and to whom I write. I am condemned. You have received mercy. I am in danger, you are secure. You are the highway of those who are being killed for the sake of God. Fellow initiates of Paul, who is sanctified, who is well spoken of, who is worthy of blessing, may it be granted to me to be found in his footsteps when I reach God, who in every letter mentions you in Christ Jesus. Therefore make every effort to come together as often as possible to give thanks and glory to God. to give thanks and to glory to God. For when you gather together frequently, the powers of Satan are destroyed, and his destruction is brought to an end by the unanimity of your faith. There is nothing better than peace by which all war in heaven and on earth is abolished. Nothing of which escapes your notice if you have perfect faith and love towards Jesus Christ, which are the beginning and end of life. The beginning is faith and the end is love. And the two having come together in unity are God and everything else, leading to nobility of character follows after. No one professing faith sins, nor possessing love hates, the tree is known by its fruits, though those who profess to be Christ will be seen through what they do, for the deed is not a matter of what one now professes, but if one be found in the power of faith to the end. It is better to be silent and to exist than to be speaking and not exist. It is good to teach if one is speaking if the one speaking does what he says. Therefore there is one teacher who spoke and it happened, and even what he has done while remaining silent is worthy of the Father. He who truly possesses the word of Jesus is also able to hear his silence, so that he may be perfect, so that he may act through what he says. and he may be known through what he does not say. Nothing escapes the notice of the Lord, but even our secrets are near him. Therefore we should do everything because he is dwelling in us, that we may be his temples, and he may be our God in us. Indeed he is, and he will be made known before our very eyes, by which we may rightly love him. Do not be deceived, my brothers, destroyers of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore, if those who do this according to the flesh die, how much more if someone corrupt the faith of God with evil teaching, for which Christ for which Jesus Christ was crucified? Such a person, having made himself foul, will go to the unquenchable fire, so too the one who listens to him. Because of this the Lord received ointment on his head, so that he might breathe in corruptibility on the church. Do not be anointed with the stench of tea of the teaching of the ruler of this age, lest he take you captive from the life set before you. But why do we not all become wise, receiving the knowledge of God which is Jesus Christ? Why do we foolishly perish ignoring ignoring the gift that the Lord has truly sent? My spirit is a humble sacrifice for the cross, which is a cause for stumbling to unbelievers, but salvation and eternal life to us. Where is the wise? Where is the debater? Where is the boasting of the so called intelligent one? For our God, Jesus the Christ was conceived by Mary according to the plan of God, both from the seed of David and the Holy Spirit, who was born and was baptized, so that his by his suffering he might purify the water. By the virginity of Mary and her giving birth escaped notice of the ruler of this sage. Likewise also the death of the Lord. Three mysteries to be loudly proclaimed, which were accomplished in the silence of God. Therefore, how he was made known to the ages, a star in heaven shone brighter than the rest of the stars, and its light was inexpressible, and its newness caused astonishment. And all the remaining stars, together with the sun and moon, formed a chorus with that star, and it was easily outshining over all of over them all with its light. And there was perplexity where had this new thing so unlike them come from? By this all magic was destroyed, and every bond of wickedness disappeared, ignorance was torn down, the old kingdom was annihilated, God being made known in human form to receive the newness of eternal life, and that which had been prepared by God received its beginning. From then on, all things were stirred up because of the abil because the abolition of death was taking place. If I am considered worthy of Jesus Christ by your prayer, And it be his will. In the second small book which I am about to write you, I will further explain to you what I have begun to explain, the divine plan with reference to the new man, Jesus Christ, in his faith and in his love, in his suffering and resurrection, especially if the Lord should reveal to me that you all meet together commonly, each of you in grace, binding in one faith, and in Jesus Christ, who according to the flesh was from the family of David, The Son of God Son of Man and the Son of God, so that you might obey the bishop and the counsel of elders with an undisturbed mind, breaking one bread, which is the medicine of immortality, the antidote that we should not die, but live in Jesus Christ forever. I am your ransom, and of those you have sent for the honor of God to Smyrna, from where I also write to you, giving thanks to the Lord and loving Polycarp as I also have loved you. Remember me as Jesus Christ also remembers you. Pray for the church in Syria, from where, being imprisoned, I am led away to Rome, being the least of the faithful there, even as I have been considered worthy to be found honorable to God. Farewell in God the Father and in Jesus Christ, our common hope. So good. He's so good. He's so good. I get before we really dive into the meat of it, I just struck me this second time, third time, however many times I've read it through now. The sadness of he was planning on writing another letter to the Ephesians. Yeah. And I don't think he ever did, because by all accounts, this is him on his way to his execution. Yeah. So a bummer. It is a bummer. I would have liked to have more. Maybe maybe we're just wrong. Maybe one of the Maybe Ignatius isn't even real. Maybe he thank you, James White, for that class. Some some people do some people do say that. Well, some do, but we can be fairly confident in at least these seven letters, Eusebius, the his the church historian. I don't remember, did we did we talk about it at the top or did we talk about it when we were pregaming, but Calvin we talked about it when we were pregaming. Yeah. Calvin struggled with the ignition letters. Yeah. Because there were fifteen of them and eight of them are not actually from him. But at the time nobody knew how many actually were. So he just was like, Well Well this is when all this is up in the air, we we probably shouldn't be looking to him for doctors. Specifically, so there's a lot of debate in the ref in the, reformers era, you know, from the fourteen fourteen hundreds all the way until like I don't know, even into the nineteen hundreds, people are still trying to figure out what letters and even now, like people are still trying to figure out what letters are actually authentic. like you said, there were the about fifteen that were promulgated during Calvin's lifetime. but where Calvin speaks against the Ignatian letters, it's in his part where he's decrying that there are heretics that are using forgeries of Ignatius to prove that Jesus Christ is not God. And so that's what he's decrying in Institute specifically. Francis Turitan uses the Ignatian letters, more than just the seven that we have here. there's a bunch of other reformers that use them. Yeah. but when you're talking about the reformed world specifically, the two big ones are gonna be Calvin and Turitan. Right. Yeah. But yeah, we we would agree with the majority of scholarship today. Seven of these letters are legitimate from Ignatius. including the one we just read. so that's what we're gonna be jumping into now. we kinda briefly talked about at the beginning. Super base that he's again talking about predestination. The church there in Ephesus being predestined from before the ages, and also by the will of the of the Father and Jesus Christ our God. This is a second century, very early second century, hundred and seven, hundred and eight AD, complete attestation to the divinity of Christ. Yes. of Romans, where it says that Jesus is the one who calls ever the things into be calls things into being that did not exist. Right. Philippians three, I think it is as well. that he he did not consider Philippians two Philippians two. he was he he was in the form of a man, he emptied himself in the form of God. Yeah the whole thing. Again, I am working on my Bible memorization. We'll get you that it's taking a long time, but it is I've got Psalm one It's five verses, six verses. I don't know how many verses it is, but I got it. I got the whole thing. I I really love the Psalms. The everyone should read the Psalms, everyone should pray. But yeah, Ignatius is a huge at attestation in the beginning of the church to the true divinity of Christ. something that I personally love as we're getting closer to the Christmas season. And in here that second half is a wonderful devotional on Christ. Yeah. how he is the God man, how he is of the line and the son of God. Son of David, son of God. Yeah. And it was it was really interesting that he mentions the name of Mary specifically. Yes. If you read the Pauline epistles, I don't think that that Mary's name ever actually comes up. Yeah. As far as like the canon of scripture, Mary is fair gonna Mm-hmm. She's fairly underplayed. Yeah. I mean every f every generation will call me blessed. That's what she says. And she's right about that. She is the Blessed Virgin Mary, blessed ever Virgin Mary, perhaps, even. Yes. but I can hell that at confession, my friends. Does say that, yes. but either way, the the scripture doesn't talk about Mary that much. No. but we do see her important in the early church. Yeah. Because it's a true attestation that God took On human form. He became incarnate. He became one of us. Yeah. one of the things I really enjoy is in chapter eighteen, that both as the seed of the and the Holy Spirit who was born and was baptized that by his suffering he might purify the waters. Yeah. So we're getting some holy water in here? We're getting some holy splashing on the demons. Is that what you're saying? No, it's it's a testament that That in baptism there's something special there. Yeah. It's not just a it's not just a public declaration of faith, although it is not less than that. Right. There is true grace being given there. And here we again see an early attestation to baptismal efficacy because the water has been purified. Yes, the water has been purified. Does this then mean though, like in all seriousness, does this then mean holy water is a legitimate thing? That we c that when the priest consecrates the water Now it has special magical powers and you can put it in your font at home. Go anoint your doorway with we actually were talking about this with relics and stuff. And I though personally I don't have a specific issue with physical objects having spiritual efficacy. Interesting. Because we see that specifically in the sacrament. Sacrament has spiritual efficacy. It has gr true grace provided in it. Now we don't see holy water being given as a thing. Yeah. I don't I don't like holy water. I don't think it's I don't think that the water is specifically. I don't think anyone who has like you know actually done research on holy water and stuff says that it's the water itself. Right. No, it's the power of God working for effect. Yeah. but to use it as like a Holy Rite appropriate. Yeah. and I don't I don't I know it's crazy. I'm a Presbyterian who doesn't have a specific issue with relics. Yeah. It's kinda it's it's a fun it's a fun time for sure. but I I certainly don't think that Ignatius there is talking about He's not talking about holy No, he's talking about that Christ purifies the waters. because Christ doesn't just he doesn't just save man, he saves the world, the devil. And what's so fascinating is The water that Christ was baptized in, it never left the earth, right? Water evaporates, goes up into the clouds, comes back down. That water is still here. And the water that came from Christ's side never left the earth. Still here. and and by the power of God, he is cleansing this earth, and he's been doing so since since his birth. Really, really fascinating stuff. Yeah. so let's let's jump into some of the let's go actually in an orderly fashion. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I'm thinking we can jump right into the the spicy stuff. everyone's what what with what Ignatius is known for. yes bishops. Yeah, a teardown of Presbyterianism. So he says in chapter two, verse eight, in one act of obedience And being subject to the bishop and to the council of elders, you may be sanctified in every way. Okay. So Presbyterians have essentially a two office structure, but can function like a three office structure, right? You've got the the minister or the teaching elder, and then the the lay elders or the ruling elders, but they're both elders and then deacons. Yes. They are of the the bishop and the presbyter are of the same ontological status. Right. But if you read Ignatius, it does seem like he is asserting a hierarchy of the bishop, that the bishop has a seat of primacy over the council of elders. So we would agree so when we look at the Ignatian letters, we need to see them not just as Specifically just him. Just him. We need to see it in the context of the rest of the apostolic fathers. Right. And as we just read in Clement. Clement is very specific about this, that he sees the office of bishop and deacon as the fulfillment of prophecy. And he cites something in Isaiah, right? Isaiah 60. And that's not the only place. Shepherd of Hermes, which is also in Rome, sees a council of elders. This also sees a council of elders. It also sees Bishop as a unifying figure in the church where you have to be united to him in order to function church. Okay. And so how is that not in contradiction to Paul's claims of or Paul's commandment that we aren't being united by a single person, right? Some people say, I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, I am of Cephas. Yeah. How is that not out of step with what Paul said? So because we're not being united to the bishop. The point is that the bishop is supposed to be an image of Christ. Yeah. He is supposed to exemplify the the characteristics given by Paul. It says here's the qualifications for presbyters, here's the qualifications for bishops. Yeah, because they're they're meant to be our examples of don't have Christ is not here with us, but we have have legitimate leadership within the church that you have to be a part of, have to submit to. And they're they are there to exemplify Christ to the body. Yeah. so within the in the history of the church, what we see is that because there were so many issues with vision, with schisms, that the church for purposes of unity wro elevated one of the presbyters to a position of authority. This would be done to someone like like Polycarp or Ignatius, who we see, you know, they learned at the feet of John the Apostle. We know that they had good doc sound doctrine. Yeah. So how could we not cling to that? Right. Cling to that doctrine, that individual who is exemplifying Christ for us. And I think we see that in the epistle. We see we see it's not just, hey, you need to be united to the bishop. No, you need bishop and to the council of elders. Yes. yeah, being subject to the bishop and to the council of elders. that's a good point. It's not just the one man by himself that you're united to. Because the bishop and the council of elders are supposed to be a united front, because the church is supposed to be a united church. again, that is the central theme of all of Ignatius's letters that we would be a united people because unity is first of all the greatest apologetic. for the gospel of Christ. and also it it it fights Satan. Satan comes to divide, to destroy, and to disunite, and the gospel brings the people of God together. Yeah, and there's a there there's a large part of me that looks at the ecclesiology debates as not nearly as important as people think. Mm-hmm because our when Christ ascended into heaven is a man was to go preach the gospel and to all the nations baptizing them in the name of Father, Son and Holy. Mm-hmm. That is our command. Yeah. That we have an ecclesia ecclesiastical structure in order to support that mission of Christ. so you know, when we're looking at this as Protestants, everyone says, well Ignatius proves Protestantism. Well no it doesn't. Yeah. We we have Anglicans who have an episcopal structure. Yeah. There are Yeah, even even if you're saying that. Even if I'm wrong as a Reformed guy, as a Presbyterian who loves it. Protestantism still stands. Yeah. And something I I definitely noticed when reading Ignatius's letter is the way that he describes this office of bishop. There is one bishop, not not multiple, which I understand correctly, Roman and Anglican ecclesiology would have a single bishop over multiple multiple different Ignatius doesn't Ignatius doesn't and and that's where I was going with it. Yeah he sees one bishop in one church. and if you read Paul's letter to the it's actually an Acts, he calls the elders of Ephesus together and says you are all bishops. And so we have plurality of elders now also plurality of bishops all in one church. Because it's the church in Ephesus. And so w what I'm getting at is the way that he describes this office seems much more akin to a teaching elder in the Presbyterian Church. He has the the the ministry of the sacraments, he has the ministry of the word, he has a seat of authority over the congregation, and seems to have a seat of primacy over the the rest of the the council of elders while still being of the same ontological office. So it's not as though He can go against the council of elders or that he can say something and the elders can't contradict him or anything like that. but he is more of a first among equals type of mentality. That would seem that would fit a lot better into the entire apostolic father narrative than anachronistically inserting a Roman ecclesiology into here. Right. Or Because there is certainly no sense in which the bishop of Antioch has authority over the bishop of Ephesus. But why did Clement send a letter, to the Corinthians if he's not over them? because they were acting a fool. This is so this is so strange to me that people can't imagine a church sending another church a letter not over them. No. Hey man, knock it off. Yeah. you can look at whether you agree with it or not, you know, Moscow sent a letter to the Ogden guys. Yep. They're not ecclesial they're not tied i in ecclesiology. Ogden guys are not a part of the CREC. They still send a l send letters because we're We're one body of Christ. Yeah. To quote an absolute masterpiece of a movie high school musical, we're all in this together, man. That was Ignatius's ecclesiology. moving then again to the chapter three, verse two. Did I say verse eight and nine? Again, I'm quoting the footnotes thinking that it's the Yeah. If if you guys get on to Logos, which is an amazing software, we're going through Rick Brannon's edition of the Apostolic Fathers and as good as it is, there are these little footnotes that are numbered. I think they should be lettered because they interrupt the They key every time I see them like, that's a verse number. Nope, that's a footnote number. Anyway, verse two, potentially, he says, of chapter three, for even Jesus Christ, our inseparable life, the mind of the Father As also the bishops who have been appointed throughout the world are in the mind of Jesus Christ chapter four, therefore it is fitting for you to run together in harmony with the mind of the bishop, which indeed you also do, for your counsel of elders which is worthy of the name and worthy of God thus is attuned with the bishop as strings to the lyre. Because of this in your unanimous and unanimity and harmonious love Jesus Christ is sung. Now you must join the chorus, each of you. First of all, beautiful musical language shows me that the early church was not opposed to instruments in the worship service. But he is saying he he is again emphasizing the office of the bishop, the role of the bishop and the council of elders to be in harmony, in unity, and then we are to submit to them as well. Yeah, because they The taking your pitch from God so that you may sing in unity. you are to act through your good actions to show that you are members of his son. Yeah. You have to be in unity with Jesus in order to be saved. Yeah. So this is one of the everyone claims that you know the Protestants are anti Nomian, you know. but we're not. No. We see a real purpose for works within the life of the Christian. Right. That's to be in unity with Christ. Exactly. Yeah. again, Christ says, If ye love me, keep my commandments. It's it's so simple. Yes. And a anyway, we can keep going. Yeah, chapter five, verse two he says, Let no one be deceived unless someone is within the sanctuary. He lacks the bread of God. That is a very bold statement. Unless you are in the true church, you do not have a valid Eucharist. For if the prayer of one or two has such great power, how much more that of both the bishop and the whole church? Therefore, he who does not join with the congregation, this one is already arrogant and has distinguished himself, for it is written God opposes the proud. Let us be careful therefore not to oppose the bishop, so that we may be subject to God. Well, Mr. Presbyterian, what do you make of this? I think this is amazing, because you have to be part of the church. You can't disregard it and say, Well, I've got my my church is in my heart. No, no. The point is to be united as a body. One lo one faith, one baptism, one loaf. Communing with God. Yeah, definitely says you can't be taking communion at home by yourself. No. That's not communion. That's not communion. It has to be validly Administered. Administered. It has to be part of the body of Christ, not not all by yourself. Yes. so don't oppose the bishop. Yeah. Because guess what? He stands in the place of God. Yeah. But the b the issue is, the Roman Catholics will say we don't have valid apostolic succession. Therefore, we are not In the sanctuary, and so we do lack the bread of God. We do lack a valid Eucharist. Explain that. there's an amazing video by Miles, showing Presbyterial succession throughout the church. And even if we just say canon and creed. Miles is canon and creed. Canon Creed, yeah. I I didn't did I say Miles. Okay, Miles over Canon Creed. Yeah. does a lot of great stuff. But he he's specifically on Presbyterial Succession. He has a great video on it. But you can go throughout the history of the church and you can see that priests ordain each other. Priests do ordain bishops occasionally. It's not just bishop to bishop. Yeah. No. we do see priests ordaining bishops. Having said that, the all of the the majority of the reformers were Catholic priests. They were validly ordained as Catholic priests. Yeah. Now we would see their excommunication as invalid. In invalid because they're stepping away from the one true faith. Yeah. In the excommunication And something important to recognize Episode. Sure, go ahead. in the same way that Rome doesn't recognize the excommunication from the East and the East doesn't recognize the excommunication from the West. Or the Assyrian Church of the East doesn't recognize their excommunication. Yeah. like We ever guess what? Everyone's been excommunicated by another person. Yeah. but the question is why don't we see it as valid? And we would say because the apostolic doctrine that we hold in our confessions and creeds is fully sufficient. Right. And that the reasons for excommunication were invalid. Yeah. Yeah. It's it the the succession of office does not matter if you don't have the succession of doctrine. Yes. Th this is so clear in especially during the time of the Reformation, when you have the Pope selling the bishopric to people, do we really think that that's a valid succession of the the the office of bishop? That, you know, w what was his name? It might be a valid ordination, but it's not a correct use of the Wha what was that guy's name? Archibald He he owed the debt to the f to Fuggers. Yes. F U G G E Albert Albert of Brandenburg. he owed that debt to the Fuggers good. F U G G E R And in order to pay off his debts he purchased from the Pope the bishopric so that he could sell indulgence through Tetzel. And half the proceeds go to the Pope, half the proceeds go to him so he can pay off his debts. Yes. And the portion of it goes to Tetzel. Yeah. So is that valid apostolic ordination? A great question. I am not going to answer that one. And and I think I th actually I will. I think that the actual ordination, like the laying on of hands, that can be valid. Yeah. Is but is the correct doctrine being passed down? The less likely. I I have never read anything by Albert. When Peter says to Simon, Your money go to hell with you, I kinda doubt that any any bishop engaging in Simony through like passing down the apostolic office for money, I highly doubt that that is considered a valid Yeah, it'd be succession. Correct. Yeah. Succession. It's not correct succession, but you could you could argue that like the through the laying on a is a real ordination. But it's it's corrupt to the core. It's a corrupted ordin. At its found its foundation, at the very basis, it is is a corrupt I I would I would say it's a false false succession. But anyway, my point is would you rather have that or would you rather be in a Protestant church which is teaching the apostolic faith? I I don't think that should be Guess what saves you? Faith. Yeah. Yeah. Faith. Yeah. In faith in Jesus Christ and then the grace provided. what do you I almost I almost said the grace provided through the sacraments. Is that in is a saving that is saving. Could you say grace provided in the sacraments? In the sacraments, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. And and it's again worth pointing out, in the old testament, the validly ordained prophets or or priests had w were corrupt to the bone. They had apostatized. They were they had brought Satan into God's house and the true prophets were the ones out in the wilderness. Yeah. teaching what God said. And this is the point. The apostles are only authoritative insofar as they're saying what God said. Our belief, our faith, is that that's what the apostles wrote for us in scripture. Mm-hmm. So if someone is to act as an apostle, th following apostolic succession, if they're to act as an apostle accurately, they can only say what God said. Yeah. And not make things up as they go and not create new doctrines and hold up new traditions as though they're they're inspired of God. Well this is one of the cool things, like especially in the magisterial pres Protestant faiths is that we would say that our our ministers are speaking the word of God in their homilies, in their preaching. As far as it accords with the word of God. Yeah. So God has not stopped speaking, he speaks through his church. Yeah. As our confessions say the preaching of the word of God is the word of God. Is the word of God. Yes. continuing on. five and six, we just read five, but chapter six he's talking about the same kind of stuff that we are to submit to the bishop as to the Lord. We must regard the bishop as the Lord. himself. Yep. We must be united to validly ordained and to our valid leadership. But as he says at the end of chapter six, you do not even hear so much or you do not even so much as hear anyone unless he speaks truthfully about Jesus Christ. What if the bishop is lying? What if a bishop is not teaching truthfully about Jesus Christ? Well then this speaks of the necessity of sound doctrine. A bishop who is teaching false doctrine is not to be regarded as a true bishop. No, no, they're to be removed lawfully by the council of elders. Because it's the apostolic faith that matters more than the office of this individual. Yes. the apostolic faith is passed down through the church. Mm-hmm. So which is found in the Apostles' Creed. Pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, we we refer to this as the regular fide. I think we talked about this on Saturday during the Saturday Saturday morning live stream. the reform position on Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith. Scripture must be interpreted according to the regular fide. You do not get to just make up any interpretation of scripture you want. You have to be interpreting the scripture according to the apostolic faith. And the apostolic faith is best summarized in The Apostles Creed, which is itself a faithful summary of the essentials of Scripture. So Scripture interprets itself using the Apostles' Creed. That's pretty cool. Well, here's the thing is like where scripture interprets Scripture, it's infallible. I mean, earlier we talked about Jude. That is an infallible interpretation. Right. There are fallible interpretations given by church fathers and in the church, but that doesn't remove the weightiness of those interpretations. Right. So Yeah, and and as we talked about on Saturday as with Cyril of Jerusalem saying if there's a disagreement, scripture decides. Well you can look at Athanasius. Yeah. he's dealing with Aryan bishops who are validly ordained, who are who have valid apostolic succession, but they believe something different. Yeah. And so what do you do when you both are standing on the same rock? Well, you go to something that is unchanging Infallible. You go to the scriptures. Yeah. And this the thing that that baffles so many people is they'll say, Well, the heretics use scripture to justify their position as well. Yeah. okay. But they're using it wrongly. They are manipulating the scripture because they're not interpreting it according to the regular fide. They are interpreting scripture outside of the bounds of the apostolic faith and in contradiction to the scriptures itself. Yeah, and that's the thing, is like you can just read the church fathers How they use scripture to defend their doctrine. Yeah. Because they they don't just point at a church. Say, I mean they they do sometimes. You have you know, they point at Rome and say, Hey, look at Rome. It's apostolic doctrine is clean, it's pure. They will say, Hey, look at the scripture that has been preserved, clean and pure. This is the interpretation. And we can look at that. like John one one. you can read Athanasius defends against the Aryan position losing John one one. Yeah. Amazing. And we do that today. You know, we have Jehovah's Witness who believes utterly blasphemous things that's right to Jesus. And we can do the same thing that Athanasius did defend it from the scripture. Yeah. You don't need fallible magisterium to Help you understand an elliptical book. Yeah. So. Yeah. All right. continuing. Continuing on. Yeah. I've got some in chapter nine. I don't know if you've got anything else you want to address before then. no. Okay. No, I don't think so. so at the at the top of the letter he addresses he he gives a salutation from Ignatius the Godbearer. There is one thing in seven. verse two, talking about Christ being the one physician, both flesh fleshly and spiritual, born and unborn, God and man, true in life in death, both of Mary and of God, first subject to suffering, then free of suffering, Jesus Christ our Lord. Right there we have the incarnation. Yeah. and it's so beautifully put. It is true, life in death. God in man. the physician fleshly and spiritual born and unborn. It's so that's so cool. Yes. That's that's very much like the begotten, not made language from from Nicaea. yeah. It you can really see where Nicaea develops its clarity on the doctrine of the Trinity in guys like Ignatius and the the Council of Nicaea they didn't just define the Trinity, they also talk about the hypostatic union, that he is true God and true man. both. Truly, verily. don't say fully because that's that's confusing word apparently. Fully God and fully man is a confusing phrase. It's truly God and truly man. because you can't be two hundred percent of something. Yeah. But anyway, the point is, They're just echoing the scriptures and the the Apostolic Fathers. Yep. You had something in nine? Yeah. So ath I keep wanting to say Athanasius. Ignatius addresses this letter. So we're okay. He keeps saying or he he said at the very beginning, th in the salutation that this is Ignatius the godbearer writing to the Ephesians. And then he says in chapter nine, therefore you all are also fellow travelers. God bearers, temple bearers, Christ bearers, bearers of holy things, having been adored in every way with the commandments of Jesus Christ. I just love the humility of this. He he also says elsewhere that he is beginning to be a disciple. This is he's on his way to be eaten alive by lions, torn apart by lions for his faith. Significantly more faithful than any of us. And he says he is the beginnings of a disciple. He he recognizes he he he can be called the godbearer. Like he's not denying honorifics that he's being given, but at the same time he's passing them on to the rest of us because we are all Godbearers. We all have the Holy Spirit in us. We are all temple bearers because we are the temple of Christ. We are Christ bearers because by the Spirit Christ is in us as well. It reminds me a little bit of Saint Thomas Aquinas when he's at the finished ri his writings and he gets to a point, just stops writing. All he does is pray and work. Yeah. Sorry, that man knows more about just about everything than any of us. Yeah. And he realizes similar to Ecclesiastes, it's all Havel, it's all vapor. Mm-hmm. May maybe not quite in those words. But he recognizes that all he du You recognize it truly that what he needs to do pray and worship God. All that is necessary is right worship. And right worship needs to be done in true reliance with a good conscience before God. Something in chapter ten I really like is the turning the other cheek idea that in spot in response to anger, gentleness. Mm-hmm. In this response to rhetoric, humility. it is taking on not just faith in God, but really exemplifying. who Christ is in your body. Yeah. Yeah. And it it's really cool because it's coming after the first half of this is all about unity. Unity in truth, unity in obedience to the elders and the bishop, but unity in right living. Unity requires unity in truth and unity in right pract practice, right living. You can't be a united people. If you're disobedient, if you're disagreeing all the time, it requires truth and virtue. Yes. And I I appreciate that he talks about it like who was treated more unjustly? Who was more cheated? Who was more rejected? No, it was Jesus Christ. And so we need to exemplify, imitate all that we do. he talks about these are the last times. Let us not therefore let us be ashamed, let us fear the patience of God, that it not turn into our judgment. we always, always need to sit in sackcloth and ashes, realize our own distinct unworthiness before a holy God. this was one of the reasons why I really enjoyed learning about the Reformed faith is it always starts with the holiness. Mm-hmm. We have a truly holy. When we sin, we are distinct distancing ourselves infinitely from him. Mm-hmm. But Christ has bridged that gap. Yeah. so you know Van Mastricht talks about it in his book on faith in the triune God. That one of the first things we need to do is realize our own sin. Yeah. I need to read some more Maastricht. Van Van Mastrick. He is so good. So good. Anyway, we will talk about this on a Saturday. Yes. I've gotten through his prolegomena, his first book the first book published. Now I'm into the second book. It's Faith in the Triune. And Everything we do is worship. Literally everything. But yes, who was treated more unjustly? Guess what? God was treated more unjustly by his creation. How rude is that? He gave he gave us literally everything and we treated him with contempt. So have humility before your brethren. Have humility before God and try to Purify yourself and control your own desires. Yeah. so something I another part as we're going through this, he's talking about how his walking in the footsteps of Paul. the f how we're all fellow initiates of Paul who is sanctified well spoken of. I like chapter thirteen how it talks about we need to make every effort to come together as often. Yeah, as often as possible. Give thanks and glorif and give glory to God. For when you gather together frequently the powers of Satan are destroyed. Guess what? Every time you go to Psalms, that is a good thing. Every time your family meets for family worship, that is a good thing. You are putting a tower of God on earth. Yeah. And and as people in the C R E C and adjacent circles like to say, worship is warfare. Yes. We every time we sing the praises of God, every time we gather together as the people of God, every time we partake of the Eucharist, we are taking a battering ram to the gates of hell. again It's the gates of hell. That's a defensive thing. we are on the offensive. We are the ones triumphantly carrying the cross of Christ into the realm of darkness to push it back. And yeah, so we need to gather together frequently so that the powers of Satan are destroyed and his destruction is brought to an end by the unanimity of our faith. There is nothing better than peace by which all war in heaven and earth is abolished. That right there is probably the One of the best statements in all of the Ignatian letters. Because the peace he's talking about is the peace found in Christ and in the body of the church. We cannot cannot be his church if there is not peace. Yeah. If he were if Ignatius were Around today he would be livid at the state of the church. Yeah. people are gonna blame it on Martin Luther. No, it's not Luther's fault. Pope Leo was egregious. He was an awful, awful man, and he instigated the Reformation. He's the reason why we weren't able to actually reform the church. Every major reform like early reformer sent messages to the emperors to hold John Calvin did, Martin Luther did. No one wanted the division of Christ's body. Right. So continuing on Okay. sorry, I want to get back to Ignatius. We can talk about canons. Yeah, that'll that might be good. That'll be a fun discussion another time. But yeah, he's just continuing to talk about the the necessity of good living. there in chapter fourteen that we are to be bearing fruit, because a a good tree produces good fruit, just like just like Christ says. he says in chapter fifteen, nothing escapes the notice of the Lord, but even our secrets are near him. Therefore we should do everything because he is dwelling in us, that we may be his t his temple, and he may be our God in us, which indeed he is and will be made known before our very eyes by which we may rightly love him. This again is just such great motivation to obedience to God. We obey God because he gives us the power to do it. We obey God because he lives in us. This is the same logic that Christ uses with I think it's the Corinthians of why they should avoid. The prostitutes, should Christ be joined to a prostitute, you have Christ in you. Do not engage in this behavior. Yep. the bridegroom does not appreciate a bride who throws herself at the feet of other gods. I'm qu talking chapter sixteen, that destroyers of family do not inherit the kingdom of God. God, because we're predestinarians, God placed you in a specific family. Yeah. you are to obey your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land. The Lord thy God giveth thee. but more than that, you are to recognize that Christ's family is not specifically your blood relatives. Yeah. as Christ sat down amongst the people who are listening to his words, he says, Here is my brother, here is my sister, here's my mother, here's my father. and so those that's the family that We should be truly united to as the family of God, which is found in your local congregation at your church. So do not destroy the peace that is found in your church. That's right. we need to reject the ruler of the age. that's chapter seventeen. did you have something else you wanted to add there? I did. On chapter sixteen, yeah. He's he's talking about a as you just cited, the destroyer of the family, the e the evil teacher Christ was was crucified because of those kinds of things. he will the the person who follows them will make themselves foul and go to the unquenchable fire. Not just the person teaching them, but the ones following them as well, right? Christ says to the the Pharisees that you make proselytes or you go you go into all the world to proselytize and you make them twice The son of hell, as you are. and then he says, Because of this, because of the the false teachers, the Lord received ointment on his head so that he might breathe incorruptibility on the church. Yeah. Explain that, Mr. Mr. Protestant. my goodness, Mr. Protestant. Yeah, we believe that church God's church will not fail. Yeah. God's church will remain until the br until the marriage of the bridegroom and bride is consummated. Will you pass me my confession book back there? I'm looking at the wrong one. I had something marked in I think it was Second Helvetic Confession. Okay. Yeah. And this is a cons the consistent Protestant churches that we believe that we are part of the one holy apostolic Catholic Church. And we believe in the incorruptibility of said church. Yeah. second Helvetic Confession. I don't even know what chapter this is. Chapter seventeen. Yeah. Chapter seventeen, paragraph five. The church, the temple of the living God, this holy church of God is called the house of the living God, builded upon living stones, and living in spiritual stones, founded upon a rock which cannot be moved, upon a foundation besides which none can be laid, whereupon it is called the pillar and ground of the truth that does not err, so long as it as it re relies Upon the rock of Christ and upon the foundation of the prophets and the apostles. So the incorruptibility of the church is dependent upon its reliance on Christ. So the church will always rely on Christ, because Christ's kingdom will not be destroyed. Individuals and individual bishops do not always rely on Christ, as we see so clearly in the Reformation. And as we see clearly just in church history, the Aryan bishops. We can look at them and we can say, Hey, you guys were validly ordained and you had incorrect doctrine. We're not united to Christ. Yeah. So we can plainly see that they are not part of the church. Yeah. And so th this is an area where I I would find myself disagreeing with R. C. Sproul, which is very uncommon because I really do love R. C. Sproul. But he said that the Reformation was largely about whether or not the church can err, and the reformers are saying yes it can, and the Catholics the the papists were saying no it can't and No I don't agree with I don't agree with that articulation either. That's why I'm saying that's that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. when Luther says popes and councils have contradicted themselves, he is saying popes and councils have erred. But he's not saying that the church has erred because you can't conflate councils with the church. Even an ecumenical council is not necessarily the church. It's just simply a statement from some people within the church. But when they are stating an error, they're not acting as the church. They're acting as th they're following Scotsman. Sure. Yeah. Unfortunately, like when we when we look at church history, like everything ends up being a c everyone ends up being a accusing that you're just picking and choosing. You're just picking and choosing. And this is the hard part because yes, everyone is. Everyone is picking and choosing. But the question is where is our infallible where do we terminate the incorruptibility of the church? Right. There there's we wouldn't we do not terminate it in a specific ecclesiology that like Rome does where it's the papal Ecclesiology. Yeah. because we don't see that as infallible. Yeah. You have to terminate in an infallible source or an incorruptible. So that we would terminate that in Christ because he's the one who breathes that incorruptibility on the church. Yeah, he breathes that incorruptibility on the church. He is the source and fountain of that. He is the rock. He is the foundation that the church is built upon. the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets when Paul says to Timothy that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, we need to also recognize it that pillar and ground is built on the foundation of the prophets and the apostles, which is the apostolic doctrine, which is contained in the scriptures. So the scriptures are the thing that the church is built on top of, and the church's job is to maintain, support, protect that truth. Yeah. And I forgot where I was going with it. I had something I had something good. I'm sure was gone like a puff of smoke. Okay. You probably need to almost said you need to smoke some more, but that might be clipped wrong. Yeah. and then we get to probably my favorite part of this entire this entire letter. And it's this little homily on the incr on Jesus Christ and Christmas. Yeah, the nature of Christ, God in human form. Go for it. this is something you need to read with your families. A star shone in heaven, brighter than the rest of the stars, and its light was inexpressible. Its newness caused astonishment. All the remaining stars, together with the sun and moon, formed a chorus with the that star. And it was easily outshining over all of them with its light. And there was perplexity. Where had this new thing unlike them come from? And by this all magic was destroyed, every bond of wickedness disappeared, ignorance was torn down, the old kingdom annihilated, God being made known in a human form to the newness of eternal life, and that which had been prepared by God received its beginning. From then on, all things were stirred up because of the abolition of death because the abolition of death was taking place. So good. You need to read this one. This needs to be an integral part of your yeah and family worship. And I love the start of this the this this is chapter nineteen. He says and the virginity of Mary and her giving birth escaped the notice of the ruler of this age, likewise also the death of the Lord. Well this was He got duped. Dude Well, this is one of the coolest things is that Christ accomplishes his work through the work of the devil. The devil wants to kill Christ. Yeah. And he does so to his own doom. Mm-hmm. The death of death found in the death of Christ. Right. And he said, I'm a whoop the devil. That's what he did. Like, come at me with your best. Yeah. I'm better. it was such that's such a good chapter. and and absolutely an excellent Christmas meditation because the incarnation was the beginning of the end for the devil. Yes. So glorious. So good. all magic was destroyed. Again, Athanasius talks about this in On the Incarnation. Yes. he says, if Christ if Christ isn't real, if cr if the resurrection didn't happen, where did your pagan gods go? They're dead. Okay, this is one of the favorite parts about all of scripture is that God constantly kills the the gods of the pagan. Look, hey maybe turning the river to blood may would tell you something, but God's pretty Yeah. He will destroy your gods. Do you you say that you would declare mubahala? every day. Every day. so this is that's a reference to our Saturday morning live series. Yes. but we have a great God who fights and wins the battle for us, and we participate in that victory. we are not the cause of the victory, but we get to participate in it. Yeah. I think we should wrap it up here with chapter twenty. He says In grace, by name, in one faith, and in Jesus Christ who according to the flesh was from the family of David, the Son of Man and Son of God, that you obey the bishop and the counsel of elders with an undisturbed mind. Again, obedience to your church authorities is crucial. Breaking one bread which is the medicine of immortality, the antidote that we should not die but live in Jesus Christ forever. Communion is incredibly important. Yeah, and I think it tells us how Ignatius interprets John 6. Whosoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life. Which is the view of the specifically the reformed be that only those Who truly have faith in Christ, truly particip in the in communion with him. That they truly feast on Christ. And the reason we believe this is because we believe John's saying. Yeah. By faith. We partake of the body and blood of the Lord. That is truly life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I love that it's the medicine of immortality. And if you look at first Corinthians eleven where he when he's warning against Taking of communion in an unworthy manner. This medicine turns into poison for the unbeliever. Yes. but that that just so it so resonates with what Paul says about the gospel being the stench of death to the unbeliever, but to us life. so also communion is death to the unbeliever, but life everlasting for us. So don't sleep on the sacraments. Don't sleep on the sacraments, they are true. means of communicating this and and the supper, the communion meal, the gathering together around the Lord's table is the reason why Christ died for us, and it's the reason why we even go to church on Sunday. This is why I made a reel a few weeks ago or or something saying, if you didn't have communion, did you even go to church today? Because the whole purpose is that God would welcome us into his table. We were his enemies, but he has cleansed us and he has made us his friends, children of his kingdom, heirs of his kingdom, and we are seated at his table in in the heavenly places. This is the whole point. Communion with God. Yeah. When you're at the table, you're in the throne room of God. You're you're in heaven. so we need to we need to recover this view of the Lord's service and specifically the Eucharist. Yeah. We must must participate. Local body. Yeah. Participate with Christ. And you must work. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright, well thank you, Eli. Thank you for joining. Thank you, everybody, for sticking around for this quite long episode. But you know what? We did we did an entire letter. We got through an entire letter. Twenty one chapters in one night. how long it took us to get through Clement? And it was it was three of these letters long. it took us six weeks to get through Clement, six uploads, which would have been man. Twelve weeks. Twelve weeks. Yeah. Quick math. But anyway, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna be trying to do one episode per Ignatian letter. We're really gonna try. We're gonna try and maybe speed it up a little bit next time. We won't have to talk so much about Ignatius the man, the next couple of times. We can just focus specifically on the letters that we're reading. yeah, this was this was this was excellent. I really enjoyed my time in Ignatius and there goes the bell telling us it's time Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, hit up the buy me a coffee, go visit Squirly Joe's and use your your discount code, all those fun things. And don't forget to read your fathers, for they are fathers in the faith. Sorry. God bless everybody. God bless.