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Should a Tattoo Offend My Stepdaughter's Father? · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Would he have flown off the handle, or is there
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: something specifically about carrying this girl's face?
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I think the face triggered the parental territoriality.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: That we see show up. Right, because it's more of,
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: it's her.
• 0:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 0:13
  Speaker 5: It feels more... Her eyes are looking out at the world.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: I think it feels possessive to him.
• 0:25
  Speaker 5: It's Therapy Thursday, and... I have a tip.
• 0:27
  Speaker 6: If you're in a relationship and you don't want to
• 0:30
  Speaker 6: nag and you don't want to be the one asking
• 0:34
  Speaker 6: your partner to, could.
• 0:36
  Speaker 5: You please close the door? Could you please turn off
• 0:39
  Speaker 5: the air conditioning? Whatever it is. Right.
• 0:42
  Speaker 6: You make a fictitious third person in the house. And
• 0:46
  Speaker 6: ours is named Jermaine.
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: Okay. So think of a ghost. And if there's ever.
• 0:50
  Speaker 6: Anything that my husband does that gets under my skin,
• 0:53
  Speaker 6: I just say, Jermaine left the trash drawer open again today.
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: And the dogs got in.
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: And then it creates this third person that you can
• 1:02
  Speaker 6: actually joke about.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Like an imaginary friend.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Yes. That is so funny.
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: Like Jermaine– Jermaine needs to make the bed every morning
• 1:11
  Speaker 6: and he forgot a few days.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So now you're almost joining forces in judging Jermaine.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: But really, it's not real.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: It's not real. That's so funny. But it is. It
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: makes him laugh all the time too.
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: So what would be a moment of nag or, you know,
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: I don't want to criticize anyone.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 6: Turns into something you're laughing at. And I think it's
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: behavioral change that happens as well.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: So do you, if you're, Talking about Jermaine, do you
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: feel less irritation than if you're talking about.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: 1,000%.
• 1:44
  Speaker 6: I really like that. See, I think it's a win-win
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: for everyone.
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah. It's weird.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Jermaine lives with us, too.
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: What does Jermaine do at your house?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Well, Jermaine doesn't load the dishwasher the right way.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Jermaine doesn't dry off Jermaine's feet after the shower properly.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, no.
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: Jermaine sounds like a real slacker at your house.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Jermaine is tracking water through the bathroom and.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Jermaine needs to get his ass together. Okay.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: What about your Jermaine, Sarah? And you can have a
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: different name if you want.
• 2:15
  Speaker 7: I'm trying to think.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: My Jermaine.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: What does my Jermaine do?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: He is– I actually really can't think of anything.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: I need a little more time. Have no complaints.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's because I'm the germane and my germane
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: is really efficient because it's me.
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: Okay. All right. So no problems there.
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: No problem.
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: That's good. No towels on the floor, no nothing. Wow,
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: that's amazing.
• 2:42
  Speaker 7: I think my partner may have some things to say about.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: Germane, though.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Like germane not closing the gate.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: Oh, okay.
• 2:51
  Speaker 7: After germane store dash is delivered.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: What is Jermaine typically DoorDash? What's Jermaine's favorite food?
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: Jermaine really likes McDonald's. And Jermaine considers Chick-fil-A to be
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: health food. So when Jermaine is focused on its health,
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: it'll order Chick-fil-A.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Oh, my God. Okay.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: Let's get to Carlos. Hi, Carlos.
• 3:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, hi.
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: Hey, Carlos. Welcome to Therapy Thursday.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: We have a licensed therapist, Sarah Dash. She is here.
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: I'm Ellen. As you know, there's Ryan.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Hey, Carlos. Hi. Hey, Carlos.
• 3:45
  Speaker 7: Hi.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: What's going on?
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hi. So I'll just get right to it. I've
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: been in my stepdaughter's life since she was three. And
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: she's nine now. So she's I really feel like she's,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: you know, she's my daughter. The way that I, you know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: the way that I care about the way I feel
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: about her and her dad, Pete, and I get along great.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: Like we all do birthdays together. We do holidays and
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: the whole co-parenting thing. It works for us like we've
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: been good at it. Um, and like me and Pete,
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: we'll hang out like outside of, you know, we'll, we'll
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: do Dodgers games. Like we'll, we'll do stuff with her together.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: We'll go to Rams, Chargers games. We, you know, And
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: me and him, we'll just go to like, we would
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: go to like whiskey bars. Like he's, I just feel
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: like he's actually like my brother, you know, and then
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: like mother from another mother.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: That's really, I think that's rare too. It's rare and
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: it's amazing. Oh, that's great.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I felt really fortunate and I, you know, I thought,
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: I thought he did too. But last month I, I
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: tattooed my forearm and I got my stepdaughter's face tattooed.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: on my arm. Like she's, you know, like she's my world. She's,
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: she's my daughter. That's how I feel now. And I
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: just wanted her to carry, to carry her with me
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: every day. And that was, that was something that, you know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: I wanted to do. So Pete found out and now
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: he's not talking to me anymore. Like won't answer my calls,
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: unfollow me on social media. Like, and he says, she's
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: his daughter, not mine. And that permanent inking her face
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: on my body is like something that he should have
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: been consulted with first, which I never even thought to ask.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: Like she's my, she's my kid too, even though not biologically,
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: like that's, it's, it's about how I, you know, feel
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: about her, how I care about her. And now things
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: are like super tense between us for the first time ever.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: I don't know, like if I crossed the line or
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: if he's overreacting, like, do you, like, did I need
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Pete's permission to tattoo my stepdaughter's face on my arm?
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: Or is he, is he blowing this out of proportion? Okay.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I think you likely did cross a boundary. And it's
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: reasonable to think that her father, your ex, whomever, would
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: discuss this. I also think his reaction is a little disproportionate.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, that total cutoff sounds extreme. And it kind
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: of makes me wonder if something may have been bubbling
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: beneath the surface.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: For a while. And this triggered it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 6: It sounds like you were in the honeymoon phase for
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: nine years or six years, however long, six years.
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: And now all of a sudden, this.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, I felt like I've felt for a long
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: time now, like we were all family. We're a family,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: all of us. We're an extended family. And that's how
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: we've been acting, interacting, behaving, treating, and she's happy. She's
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: been happy. Which is hard for that age.
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: You absolutely are.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I cut you off. You absolutely are a family.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And you are an extended family. But even within a
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: nuclear family, there is one mother and one father. And
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I hear that you love her like a daughter. There's
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: a parental attachment. But He is her father. I mean,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: he's still in her life. And I think it's important
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: that you be able to make that distinction.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: And that says.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Nothing about your love for her, her love for you,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: how close the two of you are. But that is,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: in fact, true.
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: I mean, what do you guys think?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't think his... This doesn't take
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: away from the love Carlos has, right? Obviously, Carlos, you
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: love this daughter.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: You're a family. But I do.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: think that there, maybe not permission, but there should have
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: at least been a heads up. Also, also, I do
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: find it odd that if you guys are as tight
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: as you're saying you are, that that wouldn't have come
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: up just as best buds.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question, yeah.
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: Or even like a buddy thing to do together. Let's
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: go get her tattooed on our, wherever you want.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Like, I would tell most people that are close to
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: me in my life that I'm planning to get any tattoo,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: let alone of a face of someone we share.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Is there a reason why you didn't share this?
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: It was kind of spontaneous, honestly. I have a lot
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: of tattoos. It's not like this is the first tattoo
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: I got. You know what I mean? I've got a
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: bunch of tattoos I got all over. I've got a
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: sleeve on one side. To me, it's one of the
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: things that I'll do. Sometimes I'll just add more artwork.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: And it was spontaneous. I was there.
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: I was.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: You know, I was at my tattoo artist and I
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: was just like, you know what I want to do?
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: It hit me kind of spur of the moment. I
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: was like, I want to get her face.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I see that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: That makes more sense. A tattoo is not a big deal.
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: For most people, I think it is a well thought out,
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: meaningful experience.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: As they see it as permanent. Yes. Yes.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And it is for me too, but it's also
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: not like a rarity for me to get it. Right.
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: That's what I meant to say. It's not a rare,
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: rare thing.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I, I, I apologize.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: It's, it's a, yeah, it's not a rarity for you
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: where I think for, obviously for Pete, he was like
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: a lot. It sounds like, what is your wife, his
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: ex-wife say about this?
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: Mm-hmm.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: She's trying to stay out of it. You know, like
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: she doesn't, she wants us all to get along like that.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Obviously she wants us all to get along. And, um, she's,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: she's trying to, because, because she knows he and I
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: have been so close for years, like we've become really
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: good friends, uh, like brothers, like she's just kind of
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: been like, you guys need to figure this out on
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: your own. Like she really doesn't cause she, she doesn't
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: want to pick a side and I get that.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. Let me, let me ask you this, Sarah,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: as a licensed therapist, an LMFT, do you think that
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it's the face element of this that's bothering you?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Bothering the friend, right?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Because if it were, let's say, their cute little child's
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: signature or just some initials or their birthday, would he
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: have flown off the handle? Or is there something specifically
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: about carrying this girl's face?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I think the face triggered the... parental territoriality.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: That we see show up.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: It's her.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Her eyes are looking out at the world.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I think it feels possessive to him. That's the word
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: that comes to mind for me. Carlos, how does any
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of this sound to you resonate at all?
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that could make sense. I don't I
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: really didn't think about it from his perspective, honestly. It
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: was just like to me, you know, like she's my
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: little girl. I've helped raise her. I'm going to keep
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: helping raise her. And it wasn't even a thought that
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: crossed my mind. It was just like I always want
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: to have her with me, you know. It's one of
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: those situations, I guess.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: We see this come up sometimes when there is an
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: additional caregiver who's caregiving in a parental way. It can
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: be a nanny. It could be a grandparent. And often
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: it's not problematic as long as there's this hierarchy that
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: kind of like exists and everybody sort of plays along
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: with that. But then if something feels challenging, then there
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: can be a flip and it can happen pretty quickly.
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: Ryan, you co-parent.
• 11:47
  Speaker 7: I do.
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: And are there any boundaries that you have crossed or
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: that the biological dad has crossed? I mean, you're not married,
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: but still you're in their lives now.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: It is completely harmonious. And look, when we got into
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the situation, I told myself to really follow the lead
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of both biological parents. And I would know when it's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: okay to do certain things. And I do. And I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: pay very close attention to when it's fine and what's
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: fine and what's not fine to say or to do.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: And I mean, look, I don't think I would ever
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: get either of their faces tattooed on me. I don't
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: know that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: But even just in terms of like at home, like discipline,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the farthest I'll go is like, I'll say,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: listen to your mother, listen to your mom.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: I won't, I won't. You're a backup.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I won't initiate.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: Ryan, is this something.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That was discussed or is this something that you do intuitively?
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Intuitively.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: We never, we never ever have had one conversation about
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: my role and how that would become something It.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Just, it just flows.
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: You're really great like that. Like Brian, that's in all
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: facets of Brian's life.
• 12:49
  Speaker 6: He's, he's super intuitive and just kind of knows how
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: to swim in the stream, you know, and, and feel
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: the room or the energy or just kind of like, no,
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: you just kind of know.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And I think you're a kind and gentle person. And
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that comes out as you're, you know, helping
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: to kind of bring these kids, you know.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Up through life. He did tell me he's the fun one.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Oh, see, that was my main goal. It wasn't to discipline.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: It was always be like, what, you know, what? That's
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: so great.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Like the step parent, I'm an aunt.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: It's all the fun.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I get, she loves press on nails. So
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I get her press on nails. He's into Mario. So
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I got him a Bowser costume. I'm just like, what
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: else can I do?
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: Do you do that also, Carlos?
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: Even though she's been in your life for six years,
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: you said, from three to nine, which is big growth years,
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: do you find that she treats the two dads differently?
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: It's hard to say. Not that I see, but again,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know. When she's at his house, I don't
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: know exactly what it's like, but it's never felt that
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: way when... the both of when we're all together you
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: know what i mean like.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: It's just harmonious like one.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Big family yeah.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Has she said anything to you about the tattoo the
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: daughter oh good question no does she.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Like it i mean yes she thought it was cool
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: like it it was because she knows that i'm i
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: got a lot of tattoos you know she thinks my
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: tattoos are are neat like she's always been kind of
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: fascinated by all my tattoos you know she was little Um,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: so I, I, I think that, you know, it seems
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: like she thought it was, thought it was cool. Yeah. Um,
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: It hasn't seemed like there's been, but again, I didn't
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: make a huge deal about it. I was like, look,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: look what I got, honey. And she's like, oh, that's
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: so cool. You know, it's just like another one of
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: the many tattoos that all have meaning to me. You know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: like it's my, it's like it tells the story of
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: my life and she's now part of that story.
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: Did you show Pete her dad or did Pete just
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: see it?
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Was there an unveiling?
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: I think, no, I wasn't like, again, I didn't make
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: a huge deal about it. I told him after I
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: did it, I was like, oh, hey, check this out,
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: you know? And it was just like flipped, you know?
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: What's the path forward here?
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: I didn't honestly think that he was going to, yeah,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: I didn't think he would react in any negative way.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: I thought he'd just be like, oh, that's so cool,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: you know?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Sarah, what, in your expert opinion, is the path forward
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: here for these two grown men?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think the path forward... Carlos, is for you to
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: acknowledge this. And I think you do need to apologize.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I think for you to share what you've shared with
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: us is very important. And I'm going to say it again.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I think his reaction does sound a little extreme, like
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: the complete cutoff, which tells me that there's something that's
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: sort of, you know, hit on a nerve for him.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: And he, you want to be sensitive to that. It may,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: as much as he loves you, as much as he
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: loves you being a part of his child's life, it
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: may be hard for him that he's not there 24
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: hours a day. And that may have been a type
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: of reminder to him, but I'm going to be really direct.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I really do think that an apology would be appropriate,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: an acknowledgement that was a boundary that was crossed. And
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I think for you to keep insisting, I'm her father too,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I'm her father too.
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: Is not helping.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Because in his mind, he keeps going through all the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: reasons why you're not her father. It's not bringing you
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: toward any kind of rupture repair.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: That's interesting.
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: And tell him you miss him. I mean, obviously you
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: miss him.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: He's your friend.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: A close friend.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Let me also ask you this, um, Sarah and or Ellen, um,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: is there any value in apologizing even when you're not sorry?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Well, like in this case, could he, cause I'm getting
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the vibe from you, Carlos, no offense that this isn't
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: a big deal and you don't really regret it and
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like lighten up dude. Could you just at least go
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: into the situation and say, I'm really sorry. I shouldn't
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: have done this.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I don't regret the tattoo, to be clear. And I
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: can't change that now. But I do regret making him
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: feel a certain way. There you go. That part I
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: genuinely do feel.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So that's where you keep your energy. Yeah.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: And that you're sorry.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to get the tattoo removed or anything
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: like that. And I don't regret it. the choice that
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: I made necessarily, but I do regret not telling him
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: or not talking to him.
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: Maybe it's pretty simple. Pete, I crossed a boundary. I
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: should have discussed this with you.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry. I miss you. I love you. Can we
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: move forward?
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: That's perfect.
• 17:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: I can, I can definitely try that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You guys are going to have to come back around eventually, right?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: The holidays are coming up. I mean, it's, you're, this
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: is not, you can't avoid this forever.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And I think y'all have.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: Done such a beautiful job.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: No, and I don't want to. I don't want to
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: avoid it.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I think co-parenting the way you, your ex, her father
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: have handled is beautiful. And I hate that this would
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: be disrupted by a mistake. And the mistake, not the tattoo,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: the mistake is that you didn't discuss it with him.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Because at the beginning of the whole thing, it's a
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: well-intentioned mistake.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: It's an act of love.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: It's really loving.
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: So.
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Aw.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Aw. All right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 7: All right, Carlos.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: Well, do you feel better? Do you feel like you
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: have a solution?
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. At least I feel like I have a
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: way forward at least to try to move forward, you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: in a positive way. So that's good. Good.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: Good. Well, thanks for calling in.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: Take care.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right. I
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: appreciate it.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: I think that he should have said something. I think
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: that he should.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: I think that he should.
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: Have discussed, like Brian pointed out, if they're that close,
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: you would talk about that. I don't care if you
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: get a tattoo every day. You would still say, look, hey,
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: you know, I want to go put her face right here.
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: And do you want to come?
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that he thought that he
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: would object? And there's a piece of that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: Oh, maybe.
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: Because he kept saying, I didn't even think about it,
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: which seems kind of cold.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: For your best friend.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: Maybe she didn't want to ask permission because he didn't
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: want the no.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And he may, I mean, it's a way of him
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: keeping her with him in a permanent way. And that
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: is beautiful and that's.
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: Sweet, but you know, it's caused a problem.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I think like if Ellen just showed up in here
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: with like, let's just say my dog's face tattooed on
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: her and didn't tell me, I'd be like, okay, that's odd,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: but I guess nice.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Ryan, you show up with Roy tattoos.
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: What is going on?
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Something on my back.
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: Okay.