Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Salem

Transcript

Salem · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:06
  Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
• 0:07
  I'm was with Joy Glass. And I am Magistrate Spencer
• 0:11
  Williams. Hello, Elizabeth.
• 0:14
  Hello, Magistrate Williams, you would be you would be the
• 0:18
  magistrate. The local narc.
• 0:22
  Yeah. Elizabeth today we're talking
• 0:25
  about Salem and I could not be more excited because we have
• 0:29
  been working on this episode for a minute now.
• 0:32
  It feels like I've been watching 100 episodes a day and I'm still
• 0:38
  still not done, and yet here we are.
• 0:40
  Going from the witch to Salem was such a 180 like.
• 0:47
  It was such a 180. But it's great.
• 0:50
  I I really enjoy this series. It's it's just so strange.
• 0:56
  It's very strange and I'm very excited.
• 0:58
  You know, you and I actually watch this together.
• 1:01
  When we were like just out of college or you were still in
• 1:04
  college. I just finished.
• 1:05
  I was. Still in college so when we were
• 1:08
  living together I think it must have been after Penny Dreadful
• 1:14
  ended. Oh and I think you started
• 1:16
  watching at 1st and you were like hey here's something we can
• 1:19
  replace. Look, I needed something to tap
• 1:21
  the vein, and Salem just happened to be on Netflix at the
• 1:25
  time, and I was like, hey, I saw this really crazy thing, we
• 1:30
  should give this a go. Yeah, I think that's that's
• 1:33
  pretty much how you presented it to me.
• 1:35
  You were like, this is wild. But the costumes are pretty.
• 1:38
  Do you want to watch it? And also, and we'll get into it,
• 1:42
  but I remember the costumes were at the Fido Museum, which is
• 1:45
  where I was working at the time. So I remember seeing the
• 1:48
  costumes and being like, I don't know what show that is, but I
• 1:51
  want to be a part of it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:53
  But we'll get into it. Why don't I start off with a
• 1:57
  summary? Yes.
• 1:59
  Today we are talking about Salem, which was created by
• 2:02
  Brannon Braga and Adam Simon in this dark, fantastical retelling
• 2:08
  of 17th century Salem witch trials.
• 2:11
  The Essex coven of Salem, led by Mary Sibley, seek vengeance for
• 2:17
  the past by turning the Puritans against themselves to complete
• 2:21
  their grand right and create their own country.
• 2:25
  However, their plans are thrown off course when Mary's lost
• 2:28
  love, John Alden returns to Salem.
• 2:31
  And that is probably the easiest way to understand Salem.
• 2:37
  That's. Literally, like as we said
• 2:40
  before, Puritan tomfoolery and. Puritan shenanigans.
• 2:46
  How the hell do they get anything done?
• 2:49
  We don't know. I I don't know either, but they
• 2:53
  looked good doing it in Salem. So let's meet our costume
• 2:57
  designer, Joseph Poro. You'll know his work from just
• 3:02
  like so many things. So many.
• 3:05
  So many from Tombstone in 1993, Stargate in 1994, Mighty Morphin
• 3:12
  Power Rangers the movie. Hell.
• 3:16
  Like, were you a millennial? If you didn't see that?
• 3:19
  I'm not. Sure.
• 3:21
  Yeah, we, we had our crushes on our favorite Power Rangers stars
• 3:25
  with Rita Repulsa and Ivan OHS. Yeah, I, I, if that were on TV
• 3:30
  right now, I would sit down and probably end this podcast.
• 3:33
  Oh, same. Same, I would also possibly do
• 3:37
  that for his next film, Independence Day.
• 3:42
  Godzilla 1998 Stuart Little. I can't believe the same person
• 3:49
  who designed Salem designed Stuart Little.
• 3:54
  That's wild. This man has a range which you
• 4:01
  can also tell he has ranged. If you watched any one of the 41
• 4:05
  episodes of ghost Whisperer, we also got Resident Evil
• 4:10
  extinction. The Lizzie.
• 4:13
  I knew you were going to like that one.
• 4:18
  The Lizzie Borden Chronicles 26 episodes of The Orville and last
• 4:24
  but certainly not least, season 1 of The Mandalorian.
• 4:30
  Yeah, which which, you know, really established what a lot of
• 4:33
  these characters look like according to all the spin offs
• 4:37
  going forward. Yeah, Joseph Poro has had an
• 4:40
  incredible career. I've gone to meet him quite a
• 4:43
  couple times and he is certainly a designer, you know, just such
• 4:48
  a creative mind that there's just, you know, no one like him
• 4:52
  is all I would say. And having a range of working
• 4:56
  from Stuart Little to Resident Evil to Salem, it's actually
• 5:00
  quite insane. I don't, that's insane.
• 5:04
  And while we're still reeling from that list of credits, let's
• 5:08
  take a little break and then jump into Salem.
• 5:16
  Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
• 5:20
  I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
• 5:22
  show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
• 5:29
  of Costume where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
• 5:32
  T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
• 5:37
  comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
• 5:41
  leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
• 5:44
  Now back to the show, Elizabeth. I am so excited to get into
• 5:54
  Salem. But first, you had just got back
• 5:58
  home because you were actually out here in LA.
• 6:01
  We had our LA Comic Con panel, which was so much fun.
• 6:06
  I'm still reading. I was, it was so good.
• 6:10
  The panelists were incredible. I was so nervous, but we got
• 6:14
  through it and it was great and. You did a great job.
• 6:18
  Thank you. So did you.
• 6:19
  I was like, when it all came together, I was like, Oh my
• 6:21
  gosh. Spencer just knows how to put an
• 6:24
  event together. Oh.
• 6:27
  Thank you. Yeah, it was.
• 6:29
  It was so great. And big shout out to Tamsin
• 6:32
  Costello, Marcy Rector, Felipe Sanchez, who are on a panel, and
• 6:36
  of course to Christine WADA, who really it was half her idea of
• 6:40
  even doing this panel. So she wasn't able to be there.
• 6:44
  But she was such a supporter and met with us beforehand and met
• 6:48
  with the panelists to get all of our minds together.
• 6:51
  So it was a really great time. And so many people came out,
• 6:54
  showed up, We had a close to a full room actually.
• 6:57
  So lots of people showed up and had lots of questions after.
• 7:02
  And we took lots of great photos which will be posted on our
• 7:05
  social media channels very, very soon, probably by the time
• 7:09
  you're listening to this episode.
• 7:11
  So I'm very excited for that. Yeah.
• 7:12
  It was so much fun and just a great kind of like it was the
• 7:17
  first, that was the first weekend in October.
• 7:19
  Yeah. Yeah, I think.
• 7:21
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was.
• 7:22
  It was that took me a second. It was like a great like kind of
• 7:26
  like start to like spooky season and just like seeing everyone in
• 7:30
  their cosplay and like. Oh yeah, and we got to run.
• 7:36
  Unfortunately, Elizabeth had a run around with me and our
• 7:38
  friend Natalie. I was dressed as Bob from
• 7:41
  Beatles Juice. That was really fun it.
• 7:47
  Was fun. I didn't realize what the what
• 7:50
  I'm trying to say, like how much of the day it would take up.
• 7:54
  And, you know, I really thought I was going to be able to do
• 7:57
  some shopping and that was just not in the cards when I was
• 8:01
  taking pictures with children and grown adults for several,
• 8:07
  several hours. We'll go.
• 8:08
  We'll. Go to another convention and you
• 8:10
  can do some shopping then. Well, you and I did do shopping
• 8:14
  after the panel. That's true.
• 8:15
  That's true. Elizabeth got all the hookups on
• 8:18
  all the art, and I did. I got a cute sticker, but also
• 8:23
  what we got to do was Elizabeth slept on my couch for a couple
• 8:27
  days and we got to watch Salem together so we could talk about
• 8:31
  it while it was happening. And we still were both very
• 8:34
  much, I mean, at one point we were both like, I got to go to
• 8:37
  bed. Yes.
• 8:39
  This is crazy. I remember that moment because
• 8:42
  something wild just had happened.
• 8:45
  Yeah. You're going to have to be more
• 8:46
  specific when it comes to Salem. So many people die in that show.
• 8:53
  And come back. And come back.
• 8:55
  That's true. Last week we were talking about
• 8:57
  the witch, which, you know, we thought was very much based in
• 9:01
  to a point in realism. You know, it's very much like it
• 9:05
  is kind of the superstitious type of horror, which turns out
• 9:09
  to be real. Salem is just balls to the wall,
• 9:13
  crazy, campy, kooky, all of your like crazy ideas that you
• 9:17
  dreamed of or had nightmares about came true and Salem and I
• 9:21
  love it for that. It's just your crazy cousin just
• 9:25
  doing his absolute worst in this show.
• 9:27
  It really feels like the fever dream of what the Puritans
• 9:32
  thought were thought was happening back in the day, like
• 9:37
  with all the embellishment to go along with it.
• 9:40
  And Joseph added quite a bit of embellishment to the show
• 9:47
  himself. Let's go behind the costumes.
• 9:52
  Joseph talked a little bit to The Hollywood Reporter about
• 9:56
  getting this job and how much he wanted it.
• 9:59
  He said I told my agent, oh, please get me in there for an
• 10:04
  interview. But they hired me not based on
• 10:07
  my ability to be historically accurate, but because of my high
• 10:11
  fashion background. They wanted me to bring an edgy
• 10:15
  look to the show, which nailed it.
• 10:21
  Nailed it and. They're like, look, this show is
• 10:25
  not a period accurate witch trial show.
• 10:29
  We want you to go absolutely crazy with this.
• 10:32
  Absolutely. And I have some of the concept
• 10:35
  art and costume illustrations up right now by Christian Cordela.
• 10:40
  Oh, Christian's incredible. Yeah, so good.
• 10:43
  I'm like, oh, this is how? This is how these costumes got
• 10:46
  greenlit, OK? Yeah.
• 10:50
  Joseph also talked a little bit to the Fiddam Museum.
• 10:53
  Spencer. Yeah, I, I remember Joseph being
• 10:57
  in the museum during press. I was there for a lot of those
• 11:00
  press previews. I, I wish I was watching the
• 11:03
  show as hard as I, you know, love it now because I could have
• 11:07
  asked my own questions. Yes, but that was the birth of
• 11:10
  baby Spencer. The Art of Costume podcaster.
• 11:13
  Absolutely. And to Fiddam, he talked a
• 11:19
  little bit about, you know, this high fantasy concept they had
• 11:24
  and, you know, budget constrictions, he said.
• 11:31
  When you're doing fantasy, you have to know what is correct.
• 11:34
  Then you make compromises based on your budget.
• 11:38
  Because this is about witches and fantasy.
• 11:41
  I'm going to bend the rules using fabrics that weren't
• 11:44
  available in the 17th century. And when a witch is having a
• 11:48
  dream sequence, I can do whatever I want.
• 11:53
  I I love that. Like their wishes.
• 11:56
  It's a dream sequence. It doesn't matter.
• 11:58
  Also like when they're having a dream sequence, I'm like the
• 12:01
  entire show is a dream sequence. Honestly, it is a fever dream.
• 12:05
  Absolutely. And I was like, Oh my gosh,
• 12:08
  like, like, how did he do this? Because the first season
• 12:12
  costumes hit the ground running in terms of quality.
• 12:17
  And he talked a little bit more to fit him about that, saying
• 12:22
  this is the only period show where everything is made.
• 12:26
  It's very difficult to find, to rent, even in Europe.
• 12:29
  I treated the show like a line of clothing.
• 12:31
  I wanted to do hand embroidery but it was going to cost him
• 12:34
  about 10,000 to do 1 dress in Hollywood, so we went to India.
• 12:41
  So. He had a lot of these made in
• 12:44
  India and they're gorgeous. Like every single piece is
• 12:49
  beautiful. Yeah, I mean, every single
• 12:51
  costume, especially worn by Mary Tetuba and Anne Hill, they were
• 12:56
  all very, very beautiful, which is why I was always laughing,
• 13:00
  because you will see Mary and Tetuba walking through the town
• 13:04
  square and everyone's trying to figure out who the witch is, and
• 13:07
  they'll straight burn a burn like a blacksmith who was just
• 13:13
  saying they're doing his work. And some crazy girl pointed at
• 13:16
  him. Yeah, and then Mary will walk by
• 13:19
  in a full on ball gown that you would see at the Met Gala.
• 13:22
  And people are like, who's the witch?
• 13:24
  I don't know. It could be anyone.
• 13:26
  Yes. And even Joseph thought that
• 13:30
  maybe he was going a little over the top, he told The Hollywood
• 13:36
  Reporter. I kept expecting a call from the
• 13:40
  producers telling me to tone it down, but they just wanted more
• 13:44
  and more, which I'm like, OK, everybody knew what this show
• 13:49
  was. Everyone involved knew what this
• 13:53
  show was. Just keep going more is more is
• 13:57
  more at Salem, which is true and they keep that through line.
• 14:01
  It's not like it feels like they lost budget in season 2 and I'm
• 14:05
  guessing season 3. They just keep going deeper,
• 14:08
  deeper and deeper and. Deeper.
• 14:09
  Oh absolutely. And even with the most simple
• 14:13
  character, John Alden played by Shane West, like even his super
• 14:19
  simple like blue shirt with leather pants.
• 14:23
  Those leather pants detailed his like leather jackets and
• 14:27
  jerkins, like as fancy as they can get away with.
• 14:33
  He talked about John's coat a little bit to The Hollywood
• 14:37
  Reporter, saying John Alden wears leather that looks
• 14:41
  naturally aged. The coat has hand stitching all
• 14:45
  through it. There's a great leather guy out
• 14:48
  of LA who does primitive looking skin.
• 14:51
  It's aged and goes through dyeing that takes days just to
• 14:56
  get it to look like it's really being up and has been worn for
• 15:00
  two years. It's a labor intensive process.
• 15:06
  Yeah, I mean, I honestly, John Alden's costumes are some of my
• 15:10
  favorites because they are so age and you could tell that he
• 15:14
  doesn't have a lot of clothes and he wears a lot of the same
• 15:17
  things. And I I think Shane West was
• 15:20
  really great in this role as John Alden.
• 15:23
  He really is great moral compass.
• 15:27
  I would say until we get to season 2, it starts to get a
• 15:29
  little hairy Yeah and even John Alden simple costume from season
• 15:34
  1. Once we get to season 2 he
• 15:37
  becomes like a like a mega warrior all.
• 15:41
  Of yeah, yeah, he you know, he he goes through some tough times
• 15:46
  in season 2, but his look is greatly improved by a haircut.
• 15:53
  Oh yeah, I actually prefer the long hair.
• 15:55
  But really, that's neither here nor there.
• 15:58
  But just so you all know who's listening, Elizabeth and I have
• 16:01
  a lot of, like, funny quips about this series.
• 16:04
  That's all of love. We love this.
• 16:06
  Oh yeah. It's just wild.
• 16:10
  Two things can be true at the same time.
• 16:13
  But I do love like as the series goes on season 1, he has like a
• 16:18
  lot of layers. He like slowly, like pairs down
• 16:23
  over the years and ending on this like fantastic leather
• 16:29
  jacket that is his like he is down to business.
• 16:32
  He season 3. I know Spencer, you're not
• 16:36
  there, but it is John Alden doing his best to do what is
• 16:41
  right and like, just like struggling day in and day out.
• 16:47
  I'm going to finish it as soon as this podcast is done.
• 16:50
  I am trying what Elizabeth and I were talking behind the scenes.
• 16:53
  It's like I could be watching this show for what feels like a
• 16:56
  week straight, 3-4 episodes a night, and it feels like I'm not
• 17:00
  even making a dent. It just keeps going.
• 17:03
  Like there's so much in this show and I'm like they either
• 17:07
  like it needed another season or they just needed to cut some of
• 17:12
  the storylines. 1 storyline I'm glad they did not cut though is
• 17:17
  the storyline of Countess Marburg, played by Lucy Lawless.
• 17:22
  What a great character. I love her but then also I hate
• 17:29
  her at the same time. She looks fabulous.
• 17:32
  Oh yeah, I'm looking at the costume budget right here on our
• 17:35
  screen. It's just even like the the
• 17:38
  colors are so vibrant. This is so expensive.
• 17:41
  This oh, it's so expensive. And she is just like the epitome
• 17:46
  of like 16th century aristocracy Like that is just she's like,
• 17:54
  yes, I'm over here from Europe now with all my latest fashions.
• 17:59
  Yeah, I am here to show them off.
• 18:01
  You can all be impressed now. Yeah, she's just.
• 18:05
  You could just tell that she's the OG she's been doing this
• 18:09
  for, which sounds like to me a very very, very, very long.
• 18:13
  Time since of year. It sounded prehistoric,
• 18:16
  honestly. Yeah.
• 18:17
  And I just, I really one thing I noticed was just how, you know,
• 18:21
  I talked about how vibrant she was.
• 18:23
  But if you notice in season 2 she showed up and was super
• 18:27
  vibrant and Mary Sibley who we haven't got to yet starts to get
• 18:30
  more faded and lose her color. It felt like to me like the
• 18:35
  Countess Marburg was just taking her power and everything.
• 18:39
  And also I wrote in my notes the blood spout bathtubs not cool.
• 18:45
  That's make me feel queasy as fuck.
• 18:48
  Not cool. That was not OK.
• 18:53
  Watching it this because I'm like, oh, she's totally based
• 18:55
  off, I think it was Elizabeth Bathory who was like, like a 14,
• 19:02
  like some sort of noble woman in the 1400s who literally did that
• 19:07
  and then was put under house arrest.
• 19:10
  Yeah, look it up. It's very fascinating.
• 19:13
  She's one of the women that, like Bram Stoker's Dracula, he
• 19:17
  based his Dracula off of. Anyway, I digress.
• 19:23
  Yeah, that's so true. Because she's definitely like
• 19:25
  she's there to assert herself because she's been waiting to
• 19:29
  bring little baby devil to the world for a long time.
• 19:35
  And she definitely feels like it's her right to be the woman
• 19:39
  in charge, not Mary's. And she is just there to to make
• 19:43
  her mark honestly. You could have it Countess
• 19:47
  Marburg Salem is not a great town to live in.
• 19:50
  I just I don't so like in season 1.
• 19:53
  Remember when Cotton's girlfriend, Gloriana she.
• 19:57
  Was so yeah. So devastated about being exiled
• 20:00
  and I was like, girl, get on that car and let's go.
• 20:04
  Like I couldn't leave this town sooner.
• 20:07
  She's also like, bummed that her boyfriend didn't stand up for
• 20:10
  her. I would be too.
• 20:12
  Well, I have a lot to say about Cotton Mather at the Key Sucks.
• 20:16
  I think he is the Victor Frankenstein of Penny Dreadful
• 20:20
  in Salem. I just can't stand that guy.
• 20:22
  And also, I think he looks like a certain presidential candidate
• 20:27
  that's currently running for president.
• 20:30
  That aside, you'll like season 3.
• 20:33
  I do want to point out though, the countesses all silver look.
• 20:40
  Oh yeah. That was one of the ones, and I
• 20:43
  believe it's season 2, where I was just like jaw on the floor
• 20:46
  like this is like, this is what we watch Salem for.
• 20:50
  Yeah, it's everything's incredibly exquisite.
• 20:53
  The amount of detail. I just, yeah, I, I still don't
• 20:57
  understand how the show was made because like, there's no way it
• 21:01
  had like a huge audience, but you would think that the costume
• 21:04
  budget must have been incredible.
• 21:06
  Like there are some TV shows where I just want a book about
• 21:11
  the making of it and I want to hear from everybody because I
• 21:15
  just don't understand. This was incredible, but I just
• 21:20
  don't know how it got me. It's.
• 21:23
  Just it's it's too good. It's too good for its own good.
• 21:28
  Speaking. That's too good for their own
• 21:30
  good. We have mercy, Lewis.
• 21:33
  Oh. Gosh, oh, this poor girl.
• 21:36
  I like couldn't decide whether I loved her or hated her, but she
• 21:42
  definitely goes through a story progression that is just fully
• 21:49
  reflected in her costumes. You want to talk about a
• 21:52
  character arc, It's Mercy Lewis. I mean, she goes from being.
• 21:57
  I think this actress Elise should have been nominated for
• 22:02
  some sort of. Emmy because.
• 22:04
  That first season where she's chained up and.
• 22:07
  Oh my gosh, like walked. Around in the yard like a dog.
• 22:11
  And then Season 2, she's set on fire and then she becomes super
• 22:16
  hot again. I just, it's a lot.
• 22:19
  It's a. It's a lot.
• 22:20
  It's a lot and it's literally like rags to riches.
• 22:24
  I won't spoil for you what happens to to Mercy in Season 3.
• 22:31
  Knowing how this show goes, she probably like goes to space or
• 22:35
  something and starts her own witch colony out there unless
• 22:38
  anything could happen. Not quite, not quite, but I do
• 22:43
  love she starts in rags like she is just not well dressed, mostly
• 22:48
  because the witches are just like possessing her and making
• 22:51
  her do crazy things. And then like you, I didn't
• 22:55
  couldn't fit a picture of her burnt on here.
• 23:01
  But she goes through barbecued look.
• 23:03
  She goes through her barbecued look, which I, I wish I could
• 23:07
  have found something about the prosthetics for that because
• 23:10
  that was wild and very excellent.
• 23:14
  But then, yeah, when she gets with the Countess, I love how
• 23:17
  she takes on this just like very girlish look about her because
• 23:24
  it's like that's kind of just what she wants.
• 23:25
  She just wants to be a girl. She just wants to have nice
• 23:31
  things and not be abused by her family or society.
• 23:38
  And one thing I will I will let loose about Season 3.
• 23:41
  She becomes the Madam of a Salem's new pleasure house.
• 23:48
  And yes, she Spencer Season 3 is wild.
• 23:55
  Sounds like things work out for Salem after.
• 24:00
  All season 3 is wild. This is I can't wait for you to
• 24:03
  see this because it was such a good between Joseph Poro and the
• 24:10
  set designer and the lighting for her business.
• 24:14
  It just like all fits together beautifully.
• 24:17
  It's all red and it just like it's visually stunning.
• 24:23
  Yeah, I see a picture right here and it looks really, really
• 24:27
  incredible. And she just looks so polished
• 24:29
  and put together and finally had a place of power going back to
• 24:33
  like where she started in Season 1.
• 24:35
  I actually wrote in my notes I was going to commend the costume
• 24:38
  team from Marcie's first two seasons because he really got to
• 24:41
  see the talent of the Agers and Dyers when it came to Mercy.
• 24:46
  Did I say Marcy early? You did say Marcy.
• 24:49
  Sorry, Marcy. Mercy, you can really see the
• 24:53
  aging and dying because her stuff was really falling apart
• 24:56
  and this was a character who was sleeping in like actual pits of
• 24:59
  death with. Yes, with.
• 25:02
  Dead eyes you could just smell like the decay on her costume in
• 25:06
  the first season and also when she was sitting in her bed.
• 25:10
  Essentially just rotting while she was possessed.
• 25:13
  And in season 2 you really get to see Mercy become like the
• 25:17
  Countesses doll a little bit, you know, like she kind of takes
• 25:20
  her on as a protege to a point and you know, dresses her up and
• 25:26
  gets her together. So you kind of see like a lot of
• 25:28
  that countesses over the topness in Mercy in season 2.
• 25:32
  And I'm excited to see season 3. I'm glad that she makes it.
• 25:36
  I'm glad that we get more pleasure house scene because I
• 25:39
  just got to say this show, especially season 1 is what
• 25:43
  everyone was hoping House of the Dragon would be like.
• 25:46
  We were like, what happened to all the sex scenes?
• 25:48
  This show is just like every 5 minutes.
• 25:51
  It's like, what do you want to see next?
• 25:54
  Yeah, we you want sex? We got you.
• 25:57
  Oh my gosh, it's. So.
• 26:02
  True so much it's. So true.
• 26:08
  Anyway, Mercy, she really comes to her own in season 3.
• 26:14
  No one's really telling her what to do.
• 26:18
  And this, I really love her Gray and white look because that is
• 26:23
  that is her wedding gown. Yeah.
• 26:25
  They have the weirdest, most informal wedding ever.
• 26:29
  Although I feel like anyone who's married in Salem doesn't
• 26:32
  actually get married. They're just like, oh, we
• 26:35
  dressed up nice and got married. Oh, it's not real.
• 26:39
  Yeah. Cotton gets married at one
• 26:40
  point, and he says, all right, well, I gotta go.
• 26:42
  And he walks away. I was like, cool.
• 26:48
  Speaking of cotton. Oh, we got to talk about Mrs.
• 26:55
  Mather. We inhale.
• 26:56
  We do. We have Tamsin Merchant as Anne
• 27:00
  Hale. I just got to say I love Tamsin
• 27:02
  Merchant. She shows up in these wild roles
• 27:06
  and then just like, goes with it.
• 27:08
  I love Anne Hill. I actually I at first I was kind
• 27:11
  of like questionable on her, but I really like I mean, I haven't
• 27:15
  seen season 3 yet, but so far I really like this journey she's
• 27:17
  been on. Elizabeth's making a face that's
• 27:21
  not good, but like when we see her in the beginning of the
• 27:24
  series, she's as like conservative Puritan as.
• 27:27
  A dad. You know, she's like
• 27:29
  stereotypical Puritan. All black.
• 27:32
  Covered up all black, the little hat.
• 27:35
  But then just like, I love seeing this transition of her
• 27:38
  turn to, you know, she starts again to the witchiness aspect
• 27:42
  of her. You know, this town is like also
• 27:44
  like very subtly horny all the time too.
• 27:48
  And you could just feel like the removal of layers as people
• 27:52
  start to have their night terrors, night sweats and she
• 27:55
  starts to like change her colors a little bit.
• 27:58
  And then we get into like, you know, the later parts of Season
• 28:01
  2 and I'm guessing 3. And that's when you really see
• 28:04
  the witchy aspect where, by the way, being a witch in this town,
• 28:09
  no one seems to understand what witch fashion looks like because
• 28:12
  the witches will be walking around in giant hoods and cloaks
• 28:16
  and capes, and no one will think twice.
• 28:18
  And Ann Hale does the same thing.
• 28:19
  She's like, all right, well, here's my.
• 28:21
  Here's my Cape made of gauze. I'm like walking through the
• 28:26
  streets and just sprayed. Hens don't mind me.
• 28:32
  I'm surprised she's not not walking around with like a
• 28:34
  broomstick and a black cat do while she's at it.
• 28:39
  Oh my gosh, there is so wild. Although I do have to say like
• 28:44
  one of her stand out looks though, and I think a stand out
• 28:46
  look from this series just because like it's different is
• 28:50
  her wedding gown. I thought you would like it.
• 28:53
  I saw it just like last night actually, and I was like, oh, I
• 28:56
  bet Elizabeth likes this one. I was like, like the the blue
• 28:59
  and the brown, like really suit her.
• 29:04
  Against that like golden, orange, red hair, it just really
• 29:08
  works. It is a little awkward for the
• 29:11
  moment because it is gorgeous. I'm like this.
• 29:15
  Why are you getting married in the middle of the woods?
• 29:17
  Like go to the church and show everybody your beautiful gown.
• 29:22
  But like, it is very like, it is awkward.
• 29:25
  They get married in a very awkward fashion and she's
• 29:28
  literally like forcing him to fall in love with her.
• 29:31
  Yeah, so then he's also like, sorry, I gotta go.
• 29:34
  I have to go to an exorcism. Catch you later.
• 29:36
  TTYL. Yeah, and in Season 3, she kind
• 29:41
  of, she begins to lean into the Puritan fashion kind of the way
• 29:47
  Mary Sibley did, though in Season 1, where it's like, it's
• 29:50
  black and white and subdued colors and very, like,
• 29:53
  conservative but gorgeous details, like the black
• 30:02
  embroidery on white trim, like, beautiful, like very gory.
• 30:07
  Her. I feel like her wardrobe for a
• 30:10
  season 3 is really on point and how the character not so much.
• 30:14
  She's made some very questionable decisions in Season
• 30:17
  3. Spencer, let me know when you
• 30:20
  get all the way through Season 3.
• 30:24
  I think you'll find the last 15 minutes particularly
• 30:27
  interesting. OK I'll keep that in mind.
• 30:31
  I'm so close. I think I'm on pry on season 3
• 30:34
  episode 1 by this Wayne. So I'm very, very close, even
• 30:38
  though I feel like I've been watching the show for a month.
• 30:40
  Now I know, I know we have another of our witches, Tichiba,
• 30:48
  played by Ashley Mataqui, who she also goes through some
• 30:54
  transformations through this show and I really like her
• 30:59
  wardrobe because I feel like it's the most varied.
• 31:04
  Yeah, it's like, I also really love her, her costumes.
• 31:08
  It's it's a lot of fun. I love the use of colours
• 31:11
  because she uses a lot of like those dark jewel tones.
• 31:16
  But then also to me, hers like also like are screaming witch
• 31:20
  the whole time, which is like also hilarious to me because
• 31:24
  like there's literally a scene and Elizabeth has one of these
• 31:27
  costumes on the screen. There's a scene where Mary
• 31:31
  Sibley's husband, who I don't remember his name now, something
• 31:34
  Sibley, George Sibley, he's gets like thrown off his carriage.
• 31:38
  So he's just like stuck against a tree bleeding out.
• 31:42
  And Tituba goes and finds him and she's wearing this blue
• 31:46
  hooded cloak, which is also like kind of fur on the trim.
• 31:51
  I don't know what it is, but it's like very, very unusual.
• 31:55
  Like, you're not finding this at the Puritan fabric store down
• 31:59
  the street, you know, like, I feel.
• 32:01
  Like she made this herself. Yeah, and it's like a Raspberry
• 32:04
  blue. And Tichy was just standing
• 32:07
  there over this bleeding man, an increased Mather who I think he
• 32:11
  is absolutely terrifying. This man makes my the hair stand
• 32:15
  up on back of my neck and she's standing there in this electric
• 32:18
  blue robe. And he does not for a second
• 32:23
  think that Tajima is the witch that caused this.
• 32:28
  And I'm like, dude, you guys are killing me.
• 32:32
  Increase is just an idiot on so many levels.
• 32:39
  But yes, let's please string up the blacksmith.
• 32:45
  The poor midwife who's just trying to help people.
• 32:49
  Jeez, seriously. But back to Tetuba.
• 32:52
  I mean, lots of great costumes every single time.
• 32:55
  She was always, you know, very put together, but also like she
• 32:58
  had like two different versions. She went from like her like
• 33:01
  being a very powerful witch, but then also to, you know, she was
• 33:05
  a slave at the same time. So you kind of saw like that
• 33:09
  aspect of she wasn't wearing like a typical uniform.
• 33:12
  It still was very much workwear, but there was always a witchy
• 33:16
  flair to it at the same time. Absolutely.
• 33:20
  Talk about someone who always has a witchy flair though.
• 33:25
  We have Mary Sibley, played by Janet Montgomery Spencer.
• 33:30
  Janet Montgomery, I love you. Please come on the podcast.
• 33:38
  She's great and I love Mary Sibley and Mary Sibley has very
• 33:42
  two distinct like looks. I feel like 1 is the Puritan
• 33:47
  look, the other is the witch look.
• 33:50
  But let's just talk about like the Puritan look at first,
• 33:54
  especially when she's married to George.
• 33:57
  Yeah, she's playing like a part, right?
• 33:59
  She is like the Lady of Salem, essentially.
• 34:02
  She's married to the most powerful guy in a town even
• 34:06
  though he can't talk. And she always looks very
• 34:09
  expensive, very put together. The thing with Mary, which I
• 34:14
  always struggle with who I love this about her is like she has a
• 34:18
  hard time keeping her witchiness like below the surface because
• 34:21
  she'll be wearing like a very put together outfit.
• 34:25
  But then in the next scene, she'll show up and like a. 3
• 34:28
  tiered cloak. Yeah, with a top hat and a giant
• 34:33
  feather. And like, she just, she has a
• 34:36
  hard time balancing it, but she always, always looks put
• 34:40
  together. And I love that about Mary.
• 34:42
  So she's easily my favorite character, but that should not
• 34:45
  be a surprise to anyone. I also love that she's like
• 34:49
  using as much of his money as possible on her wardrobe.
• 34:53
  Oh yeah. She's clear that like my clothes
• 34:55
  are a form of revenge, especially because like she came
• 34:59
  from nothing and I like when and whenever you see her when she
• 35:03
  had no powers or in season 3 when she is maybe not at the
• 35:10
  height of her power. Damn.
• 35:13
  And. I could tell Elizabeth sitting
• 35:18
  on the secret. So many, but she's just like,
• 35:23
  she is really just like pulled down to the level of like
• 35:26
  everyone else in Salem, like all the commoners, pretty much like
• 35:33
  she just is immediately like dirty her clay.
• 35:36
  Her clothes are like brown and Gray and like look like they're
• 35:40
  about to fall apart at any 2nd. And it's like, Oh, no wonder
• 35:45
  you're spending all of his money.
• 35:47
  Yeah, I mean, she really so much like walks around like she is
• 35:51
  the queen when she's just walking about Salem.
• 35:55
  But then when you see her in her witch costumes, she still
• 36:00
  remains the queen. Actually, yeah.
• 36:03
  She's even more she's just a different.
• 36:05
  She's the witch queen in those moments.
• 36:08
  Yeah, she demands respect when she's in her costumes.
• 36:11
  Absolutely. And one part of Mary's wardrobe
• 36:16
  that I really appreciated was the jewelry.
• 36:19
  And Joseph talked to The Hollywood Reporter a little bit
• 36:22
  about it, saying she wears a ton of silver jewelry, vintage
• 36:26
  pieces from the 30s and 40s. And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
• 36:32
  Yeah, there really was a lot of silver, wasn't there?
• 36:35
  Oh yeah, I'm like, I feel like it's very, it's very witchy.
• 36:37
  Although one of my favorite witchy looks of hers that like
• 36:43
  gold metallic corset with like the sheer gold robe.
• 36:50
  I was like, girl, get it? Yeah.
• 36:54
  Yeah, I also love another screen you share where she's holding.
• 36:59
  You know the very dangerous Apple and the very.
• 37:01
  Spooky Foods. And like Ramley, she has like
• 37:04
  this very vibrant green look that, you know, kind of has to
• 37:08
  do with like the plague and whatnot.
• 37:11
  Like she just randomly has these pieces in her closet with like
• 37:14
  the most shocking vibrant colours.
• 37:16
  And it's just like such a specific Joseph Poirot Salem
• 37:22
  thing, like there's no other show like this show.
• 37:25
  I just that's just the truth. There isn't.
• 37:28
  And moments like that one with the green dress, I feel like
• 37:32
  there was like, like, This is why I want a book or I want more
• 37:35
  like or like a documentary because I feel like there was a
• 37:38
  very strong creative vision among all the departments.
• 37:45
  Because like in this scene, you know, she stands out with this,
• 37:50
  you know, crazy cloak and like the metallic green because she's
• 37:54
  standing in this great, like brown swamp behind like barren
• 37:59
  trees. But then further in the forest,
• 38:01
  there's just like these tiniest bits of like green that are
• 38:05
  helping enhance her look and the look of the apple.
• 38:09
  And I'm like, it's just all works together beautifully.
• 38:12
  It works it it reminds me when we talked about Brahm Stokers
• 38:16
  Dracula, which it's not fair to compare these two, but I just
• 38:19
  remember that Coppola quote of like, you know, the costumes are
• 38:22
  the set. Like, I just feel like this show
• 38:25
  very much invested in the artisans are making it happen,
• 38:29
  you know, like that almost felt like the writing kind of game
• 38:33
  second or third, you know, And it's just like we want amazing
• 38:38
  costumes, amazing sets, hot actors, hot actresses.
• 38:43
  And we'll figure out the story later.
• 38:45
  We'll get there. But it's just like, you know,
• 38:47
  witches, blood, violence, sex, good costumes.
• 38:52
  They just it was it was like a drug.
• 38:54
  They just kept going with it and I loved it.
• 38:58
  Which I think brings us to the end of Salem, because after
• 39:01
  talking about Mary Sibley, what else is there to talk about,
• 39:04
  really? Really.
• 39:06
  I mean, that's it. She is the show and I, it makes
• 39:09
  me crazy. I noticed at the beginning of
• 39:12
  your notes, they put together the photo of Joseph Poro.
• 39:16
  He's standing there with Janet Montgomery.
• 39:20
  That was taken at the ASU Fido Museum party.
• 39:23
  I was there, yeah. You didn't notice that you
• 39:26
  didn't see her? I was in the presence of Mary
• 39:29
  Sibley and Janet Montgomery and I, I mean, I must have been
• 39:34
  doing something else. I was, you know, obviously busy
• 39:36
  doing PR that night. But if I could just go back in
• 39:40
  time. Maybe I would have had a chance.
• 39:45
  Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Spencer, All things considered,
• 39:52
  for the two seasons of Salem you have seen, what's your Stitch
• 39:57
  rating? This is really hard actually,
• 40:01
  because it's like one of those shows are like, it's like not a
• 40:07
  good show, which makes it like almost like a perfect show like
• 40:11
  so it like this rating feels very like it feels very tainted,
• 40:16
  you know? I'm going to have to give it
• 40:21
  like a solid 3. That's just, I don't know.
• 40:25
  I'm going to be honest, that's where I landed as well.
• 40:30
  A solid 3 stitches. Like the costumes are holding
• 40:34
  this together. Literally the costumes and the
• 40:36
  actors I feel like are what holds Salem together because
• 40:40
  this like honestly, it sounds like we're saying this is a
• 40:44
  terrible show. It's not.
• 40:46
  It's not. It's just it's wild.
• 40:49
  But you have so much fun watching it because it makes you
• 40:52
  think because you're like, wait, what is happening?
• 40:56
  Hold on a second. Like Spencer took notes.
• 40:59
  I feel like I need to rewatch this because I skipped I skipped
• 41:03
  quite a bit and I'm just like hold on wait.
• 41:07
  A second, I took a lot of notes just like.
• 41:10
  So many notes, like honestly, if I could like go back in time and
• 41:15
  have a a podcast as this show was coming out and doing like a
• 41:20
  podcast episode. Oh, episode by each.
• 41:23
  Episode by episode we could talk for like 2 hours per episode.
• 41:28
  Yeah, it's just. I feel like.
• 41:30
  Every episode is something else. You're not gonna There's no
• 41:34
  filler episodes of this show. Oh no.
• 41:37
  No episode. You're gonna see your favorite
• 41:39
  character get hanged, and then your other favorite character
• 41:42
  gets set on fire, but then these two characters are going to hook
• 41:46
  up, but then a plague's going to come out and wipe out the town.
• 41:50
  And then your favorite character that you saw get crushed to
• 41:53
  death last episodes going to show up as a ghost.
• 41:55
  And there's no there's no blank spaces in the show.
• 42:00
  And that's why I love it, because it's just absolutely
• 42:02
  insane. But you're right, it's so much
• 42:04
  fun. There's never a dull moment in
• 42:06
  the show, but by the end of it, at the after a long night of
• 42:09
  binging it, you're going to sit there sweaty and you're just
• 42:13
  going to be like, I need to lay down.
• 42:15
  It was a lot. Oh, man.
• 42:18
  Well, yeah, this is a lot of fun.
• 42:20
  I'm really glad we watched it and I'm excited to play our
• 42:23
  favorite game, which actually feels quite impossible.
• 42:27
  Oh yeah, but we must, we must pick our one costumes to them
• 42:33
  all, Spencer. Hit it, Daniel.
• 42:37
  The one costume to rule them all.
• 42:44
  OK Elizabeth, I know what MY1 costume is because it's the
• 42:50
  costume that actually made me laugh the hardest.
• 42:56
  It's in like season 1. This is at the height of people
• 43:01
  are being burned as witches every other day.
• 43:04
  Your grandma, your next door neighbour, your baby cousin.
• 43:08
  Your blacksmith. Yeah, like it.
• 43:11
  All it takes is just like, impress Mather to just give you
• 43:16
  a dirty look and you're done. And somehow Mary Sibley just
• 43:22
  walks by unscathed the entire time.
• 43:25
  So I had to shout out her look that she's wearing, where she's
• 43:28
  wearing the top hat and all the feathers and it's very elaborate
• 43:32
  black coat. Because to me, I felt like all
• 43:35
  she was missing was a sign that says I am the witch.
• 43:38
  And it would have been complete because it's just so and she
• 43:43
  looks so good for no reason. One thing I'm realizing I left
• 43:48
  out is Joseph Poro. He was like, we were not
• 43:53
  concerned about period accurate hairstyles.
• 43:57
  Yeah. And that is just you can see
• 43:59
  that so clearly in this look like.
• 44:02
  And this is so you like I could, this could be your Halloween
• 44:06
  costume, Spencer. And it's so wild because this is
• 44:09
  a moment where she's also accusing people of being
• 44:12
  witches. Right, right.
• 44:14
  That's the part that makes me crazy.
• 44:16
  She's like, well, obviously she's the witch.
• 44:17
  I'm like really? The the person cooking bread
• 44:21
  over there is being told she's the witch by the lady in the
• 44:24
  slash. With the perfect curls tumbling
• 44:29
  down her cloak like and she looks like glossy and shiny and
• 44:34
  like her feathers like the plumage is real.
• 44:37
  She's wearing a top hat worn by the guitarist from Guns N'
• 44:41
  Roses. Like it's just like, come on,
• 44:45
  guys. It is so wild and I feel like my
• 44:51
  one costume to roll the ball is is kind of equally wild.
• 44:56
  She's not. She's not quite as like parading
• 44:59
  around Salem in this, but it is like her Season 1.
• 45:04
  I believe it's the finale dress that just has this beautiful
• 45:10
  silver spider web stomacher. Which should be a red flag to
• 45:17
  anyone and say goodbye the way. Yes.
• 45:21
  And then she also has all these tiny little like silver fly
• 45:26
  embellishments all over these gigantic puffs leaves.
• 45:30
  She just has these huge silver like chains dangling from her
• 45:36
  neck and she's just like, yes, we're resurrecting Satan.
• 45:41
  Here we go. And the people of Salem think
• 45:45
  that's just her grocery shopping costume.
• 45:48
  It is a really good choice like that.
• 45:50
  By that point of this season, it's everything.
• 45:53
  You just kind of goes over your head at this point.
• 45:56
  You're like, yeah, that's a great costume.
• 45:57
  Yeah. But I'm like, when you actually
• 45:59
  stop and look at the embellishments that you're
• 46:01
  talking about. The Spider.
• 46:03
  World. It's wild and I love it for
• 46:06
  that. It's the Galen is literally
• 46:08
  covered in tiny silver flies. He just love this show.
• 46:17
  Unfortunately, that is the end of the wild, wild Puritan world
• 46:24
  of Salem. If you would like to let us know
• 46:28
  what your one costume to rule them all is, please hit us up at
• 46:33
  the Art of costume@gmail.com. And we forgot to mention, if you
• 46:39
  want to see these incredible looks, you can go to youtube.com
• 46:44
  slash at The Art of Costume. Yeah, we you need a visual guide
• 46:49
  for Salem. You need us to hold your hand
• 46:52
  and show you the fly embellishments or the spider
• 46:55
  webs or the top hat. You got to see it for yourself.
• 46:58
  And before I let everyone know when we're watching next week, I
• 47:02
  also want to point out, of course, follow us on Instagram
• 47:06
  and TikTok, but we also have a new Discord channel where you
• 47:09
  could chat with other listeners of the show, talk about your one
• 47:13
  costume, rule them all. You could even submit interview
• 47:16
  questions for our upcoming interviews, which I could say
• 47:21
  that there's actually quite a few wink, wink.
• 47:24
  So yeah, come connect, connect with your costumer community.
• 47:27
  We'd love to have you there. So Elizabeth, what we're talking
• 47:31
  about next week, I'm very excited about it, is the
• 47:35
  witches. Elizabeth was just here on my
• 47:37
  couch and she watched it with me.
• 47:40
  It was her first time. Are you excited to talk about
• 47:43
  it? I am so excited.
• 47:46
  This was equally as wild as Salem, but in a completely
• 47:52
  different way. And like, I'm sorry, anytime I
• 47:56
  get to talk about Angelica Houston, like, I'll take that
• 47:59
  chance. She is absolutely incredible in
• 48:02
  this film. I'm sure you've all hopefully
• 48:05
  have seen this film at this point.
• 48:06
  It is a classic and. Don't get confused with the
• 48:10
  remake if you're looking for. We're not doing Anne Hathaway
• 48:14
  film. I'm very sorry we got to pay
• 48:16
  tribute to the original Angelica Houston.
• 48:19
  I can't wait to talk about it. It is a wild ride, Elizabeth.
• 48:23
  This is a lot of fun. I'm so glad that we finally got
• 48:26
  to talk about Salem after what has been almost eight years.
• 48:31
  Right, right. We cannot wait to talk to you
• 48:36
  next week, my fellow coven of costume nerd.
• 48:40
  Which is. Everyone have a great week.