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Trump on potential plague case in Russia ‘Big problem’ · INSIGHT TODAY

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: President Trump making his first comments about Russia's potential pneumonic
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: plague case, calling it a, quote, big problem, end quote.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: As official, unofficial reports, I'm sorry, reveal that close to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: 200 people are now under observation.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I hate to see them having it. It's a rough,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: it's a rough disease. You know, that's a disease we
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: used to be able to control, but somehow those microbes
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: have gotten stronger and smarter.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: They're like an army.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: The White House says they're monitoring the situation in Russia
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and beyond after the death of a researcher who worked
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: at a Russian lab dedicated to studying the plague and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: other infectious diseases. The researcher died days after being diagnosed
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: with a pneumonia of a, quote, unknown origin, according to
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a Russian health agency. Out front now, Dr. Ashish Jha,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: infectious disease and biosecurity expert. And Dr. Jha, you've looked
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: into this extensively. Obviously, you know, if they know where
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: she works, but they're saying the pneumonia is of an
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: unknown origin, that already raises some questions about what they're
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: disclosing and not disclosing. What is the most concerning thing
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: about all of this to you?
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so first of all, Erin, thanks for having me back. Look,
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: the early reporting from the local newspapers says is that
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: this was a vial that broke, pneumonic plague, and the
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: young person died. There are a lot of red flags here.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: One is she should have probably been vaccinated against it
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: and should have started antibiotics right away, and there's no
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: evidence that that happened or that it responded. Second, 200
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: people under quarantine, that is not what you would expect
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: from a simple lab accident. Last point that I would
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: make that's really important here is Russia has a very
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: extensive biological weapons program And we don't know if this
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: lab was involved in that program, but it is concerning
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: given the lack of information coming from the Russian authorities.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And it is a real lack. And you've also noted,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and this is one of the things that stood out
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: from this from the second that it sort of broke
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: out internationally in terms of news, was that the reports
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of the FSB, which, of course, is Russia's internal security
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and counterintelligence agency, has been involved in the response. There
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: was that. There was the fact that several hospitals had
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: been shut down or locked down on top of all
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: of this. I mean— What do you read into that? Again,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: to the point of you're saying, well, if it was
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: run of the mill pneumonic plague, she would have been vaccinated,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: taken antibiotics and been fine. But yet we're seeing all
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of these other pieces around this. What do you make
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: of all of that? And do you trust any of
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the information that we're getting?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: So here's what we know. The lab that she was
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: working in is a lab that's supposed to be a
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: civilian lab, but it has a long history of of
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: having military biological weapons research. The second thing we know
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: is that Russia has been investing heavily in expanding its
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: biological weapons program. Take those two facts. Take the facts
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: that you just mentioned. It is hard not to be
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: concerned that there is something more going on.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Is there something more going on? I don't know.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: But I've talked to friends in the administration. I've actually
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: had three conversations last 24 hours. They're concerned. They don't
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: feel like they're getting a straight answer from Russia. And
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: so until we get more information, I think we have
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: to assume that there is something more going on than
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: what we're seeing.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And, you know, to that effect, obviously, you know, people
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: have a lot of questions about how this spreads. Now, again,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you're talking about running the mill pneumonic plague, or are
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: you talking about something perhaps different? And we don't understand
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the facts yet. To that question, though, you know, we
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: all remember back in COVID. So if you look at
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: a map of the flights that left the airport in Irkutsk,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: which is where this incident occurred, You can see that,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people have have have left.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And this is these are just the flights from around
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the time that researcher died. Is there any reason to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: be concerned about anything like this?
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: That the lockdown in the immediate area, but nothing beyond that.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: So here's how I would think about it. If this
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: is a run-of-the-mill pneumonic plague, and I can't even believe
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: I'm saying run-of-the-mill in pneumonic plague, right, which is a
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: pretty serious disease, but pneumonic plague doesn't spread all that efficiently.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: So if it is a normal run-of-the-mill, this is not
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: going to end up being a big deal. I mean,
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: maybe a few more people will get sick, obviously terrible
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: that this young woman died, but it will not become
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: a global outbreak. If there is something more going on here,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: then obviously it changes the scope of this, and we
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: have to be much more concerned. This is why we
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: need a lot more information. We need better monitoring. We
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: need better disease surveillance. And we need more transparency from
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: the Russian government.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously they're not providing any of that. Some
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: of the things they're doing would indicate there's nothing to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: worry about, but the things they're not being transparent about
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: would indicate there is something to be worried about. So
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: it's very hard to tell. But in terms of the spread, Dr. Jha,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: before you go, this is the sort of thing that
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: you're saying is actually, if it is a, again, run-of-the-mill
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: pneumonic plague, would be quite difficult to transmit.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, this is not like COVID. This is certainly
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: not like measles. It doesn't spread that efficiently. So I
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: am hoping it is a run-of-the-mill pneumonic plague. I'm hoping
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: it just sort of peters away. But here's a bigger point, Aaron,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: that I think is worth understanding. We are seeing across
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: the world more and more labs working on very, very
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: dangerous pathogens. And I am increasingly worried we're going to
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: see more and more outbreaks like this And one of
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: those will end up on our shores. So we have
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: to get ready and be much better prepared than we
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: are right now.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you also about what Dr. Jha
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: was just talking about, because you know about this in
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: a more tangible way. You know, he was talking, obviously,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: about this pneumonic plague. And I know, obviously, you don't
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: know the details of what's really going on the ground there.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: The whole point is nobody does. But what he was
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: talking about, about the FSB being involved and hospitals potentially
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: being locked down and a civilian lab that had also
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: been known to do plenty of military and the expansion
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of the bioweapons program in Russia. What do you think
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: is going on?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: What we know is that Russia is now on war footing.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: The country is just like a giant war camp. War
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: became oxygen for Putin's regime. So that's why it's very
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: likely this lab has been involved in developing some bioweapons. Again, likely.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: But one thing I can tell you for sure, whatever
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: they said, they lied. So when you're listening to the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: responses of Russian authorities... So here you have to, when
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: you talk to people in this country, in Europe, so
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: you should apply the presumption of innocence. In Russia, it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: the opposite, presumption of guilt. If Putin said something, he lied.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You should assume so. So that's why I wouldn't trust
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: a word what they said, and that makes it even
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: more worrisome.
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: Professor, I mean, what do you make of it?
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to know until we have more information,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: until we have confirmation that this is actually plague, until
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: we understand exactly the circumstances with which the lab employee
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: contracted the illness. It would be great to know if
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: this is just an old-fashioned research plague or whether this
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: institute in Russia has been experimenting with weaponizing plague, and
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: so whether it's changed at all. These are all important
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: things for us to know. But what I will say
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: is that one of the main lessons from the COVID
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: experience is that all the early reports are always wrong
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: or incomplete or misleading. So I think jumping to either conclusion,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: assuming that this is the beginning of the next pandemic,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: which I think is highly unlikely, or assuming that this
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: is nothing to worry about, I think both of those
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: tendencies should be tempered with our experience in COVID. And
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: let's wait until we have a little bit more data.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: And the other thing I want to say, Richard, is
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: that this is not the novel coronavirus. This is a
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: much different organism that there literally have been centuries of
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: experience with. And we now actually have very good treatments
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: for them when this disease is caught early.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: But I guess the issue is going to be one of,
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: whatever the pathogen, the issue is going to be one
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: of transparency. Are we told how much openness is there?
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: Are we given right facts, misinformation? Because that determines how
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: much we can trust what we're being told.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And it also dictates transparency. what the world's uh
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: health response should be to to this event and again
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: what we learned again from covid is that if if
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: the world has an understanding early on about the you
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: know the pet the the uh path uh of the
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: of this kind of outbreak then we can we can
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: become organized very very quickly um But we're getting conflicting information.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: We're getting, on the one hand, that they're not sure
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: that this is even an illness related to the work
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: that this lab worker had. We're also told that there
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: might be hundreds of people under quarantine and evaluation. We'll
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: know over the next few days. We should know because
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: this pathogen, unlike the coronavirus, has a fairly short incubation period.