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In Conversation with Matt Heine, CEO of Netwealth · What the Flux

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is what the Flux. I'm Larissa and it's Friday,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of July. Here are our three biggest
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  Speaker 1: at the same price as last year. That's roughly one
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  Speaker 1: priced wines. Now over to Britain, justin.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Welcome to What the Flux in Conversation Today, we're excited
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: to be joined by Matt Heiner, CEO and Managing Director
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: of Netwealth and Flux's relatively new corporate overlord as well.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: For those who don't know, net Wealth is one of
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  Speaker 2: Australia's fastest growing wealth management and fintech companies, and in
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: its most recent results, Networth announced that total funds under
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  Speaker 2: administration had now grown to one hundred and thirty five
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  Speaker 2: point seven billion dollars as of the thirtieth of June
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  Speaker 2: this year. Matt's been working at net Wealth since two
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  Speaker 2: thousand and one and has held roles across the whole company,
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  Speaker 2: from sales to marketing to product. He became joint managing
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  Speaker 2: director alongside his father Michael Heiner in twenty fifteen and
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  Speaker 2: became sole managing director in twenty twenty two. So today
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  Speaker 2: in our conversation we'll dig into how his early experience
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  Speaker 2: has shaped him, how he thinks about scaling the net
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  Speaker 2: Wealth platform, and what the future of advice and wealth
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  Speaker 2: looks like in Australia and globally. Welcome to what the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Flux in conversation.
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  Speaker 3: Matt, Thanks, Chelsey Boyce. Sounds like an introduction that I
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: might have written for myself a right to be here.
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  Speaker 2: So, Matt, can you share a little bit about your
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: background where it started before Netwealth at Netwealth and was
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  Speaker 2: it always Netwealth for you?
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  Speaker 3: It's a great question and easy one to actually answer because,
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  Speaker 3: as you mentioned before, I have been here for twenty
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  Speaker 3: five years. So I joined Netwealth as the fifth employee
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  Speaker 3: and that was in response to I guess the old
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  Speaker 3: man giving me a job. At the time, it was
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  Speaker 3: very early days, a classic startup story started in his bedroom.
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  Speaker 3: The only difference was that bedroom was in two act.
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  Speaker 3: So I started doing some odd jobs around net Wealth
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  Speaker 3: in the very early days, where it was everything from
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  Speaker 3: designing web pages to collecting the mail and writing privacy policies,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: and pretty quickly worked out that it was a lot
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  Speaker 3: more interesting and I was learning a lot more than
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  Speaker 3: I was at university. So whilst I had worked also
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: at the family's previous business, Heinner Management, my only other
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  Speaker 3: real job for two years was working at Nando's.
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  Speaker 2: That's a great fun, Pat and yes I do still
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  Speaker 2: eat it. I love it. Were you on the tools
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  Speaker 2: or I was on the tools?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, short order chef. As I'd like to remind my
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: wife often and then upgraded and took a role as
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  Speaker 3: a delivery driver.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, And so for the members of the Flux family
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  Speaker 4: who may not be so aware, could you give us
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  Speaker 4: just a little overview of Netwalth, what the platform does
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  Speaker 4: and who it serves.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, so the Networth platform, or what we do as
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  Speaker 3: a business, it does continue to expand. But at our
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  Speaker 3: core we are a technology business that provides investors, financial advisors,
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  Speaker 3: stockbrokers with a single place to manage all of their investments,
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  Speaker 3: Superannuation and for the financial intermedaries we work with to
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  Speaker 3: run their whole business using us as effectively their back offers.
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  Speaker 3: So as an investor or a superannuation member, you can
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  Speaker 3: open account with us and automatically through that account buy
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  Speaker 3: and sell shares, manage funds, term deposits, cash and a
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  Speaker 3: range of other investments and really avoids having to have, say,
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  Speaker 3: an account with Comsec. We do it all through a
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  Speaker 3: single account with end of your tax and only to
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  Speaker 3: do regular reporting and those sort of things. So our
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  Speaker 3: job is about helping the financial futures of all Australians
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  Speaker 3: and we work really hard to make sure that we
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  Speaker 3: can provide amazing opportunities for them.
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  Speaker 2: Now, speaking of the financial future of all Australians, we
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  Speaker 2: did a little bit of digging down a report that
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  Speaker 2: said more than sixteen million Australian say they need help
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  Speaker 2: or guidance on their finances, but only three million or
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  Speaker 2: so actually get the advice. So why is there such
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  Speaker 2: a big gap at the moment and how is that
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  Speaker 2: possible to solve?
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  Speaker 3: It's a really challenging problem to solve, and from a
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  Speaker 3: business perspective, it's an incredible tale win for us in
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  Speaker 3: that there is an aging demographic and as we know
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  Speaker 3: whether a young person or young adult is starting out
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  Speaker 3: and looking to invest, it's important that we provide tools
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  Speaker 3: and education for them and obviously that's why we started
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: working with the Flux team. But as that progresses and
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  Speaker 3: people end up with more complex advice needs, the reality
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  Speaker 3: is that often a financial advisor is the best way
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  Speaker 3: for them to actually work through what they need to
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  Speaker 3: do to retire up or to manage their financial lives responsibly.
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  Speaker 3: And the challenge there is throughout some big numbers that
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  Speaker 3: in the next ten years we're looking about three and
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  Speaker 3: a half million Australians retiring and by twenty fifty that's
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  Speaker 3: going to be ten million Australians, and yet there's only
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  Speaker 3: ten or eleven thousand financial advisors operating in the country.
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  Speaker 3: So a big part of what we do as a
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  Speaker 3: business is actually provide them with the tools and the
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  Speaker 3: capability to deliver a very high level of service to
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  Speaker 3: their clients, but to take on more customers. The moment,
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  Speaker 3: a financial advisor can service around one hundred clients or
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  Speaker 3: family groups, and our challenge is to help them grow
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  Speaker 3: that to one hundred and fifty or two hundred without
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  Speaker 3: any degredation to service or quality of the advice that
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  Speaker 3: they're actually providing.
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  Speaker 2: So Matt Networth obviously started as a disruptor in this space.
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  Speaker 2: It's grown rapidly over the last ten twenty years. But
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  Speaker 2: one of the key things that we find within Networth
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  Speaker 2: is this mindset around still being the innovator or the
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  Speaker 2: underdog or the disruptor. How have you been able to
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  Speaker 2: keep that alive over the twenty years When isn't that
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  Speaker 2: early stage disruptor anymore?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, scaling a business is wonderful and it does come
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  Speaker 3: with its own challenges and you always have to look
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  Speaker 3: at what are the things that were really important to.
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  Speaker 2: Us at the start?
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  Speaker 3: That made it successful and how do we carry that
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  Speaker 3: through into everything that we do. We very much a
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  Speaker 3: values based business. They really are embedded into everything that
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  Speaker 3: we do, from how we hire people to how we
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  Speaker 3: remunerate people, our review process and also the decision making
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  Speaker 3: that goes with it. As far as staying hungry. A
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  Speaker 3: family is still a major shareholder in the company. We
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  Speaker 3: own in excess of forty percent, so there is a
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  Speaker 3: vested and very much a self interest in making sure
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  Speaker 3: that we continue to be very successful. But I think
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  Speaker 3: also that the type of people that we do higher
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  Speaker 3: a very much growth mindset. They like the work that
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  Speaker 3: they do and they do want to make sure that
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  Speaker 3: we stay on top. And every company has ambitions that
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: are much bigger than their budgets, and I think that's
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  Speaker 3: a healthy place to be. And any given day, we've
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  Speaker 3: got probably three thousand things in our backlog that we'd
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  Speaker 3: love to be doing, but you do need to prioritize
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  Speaker 3: really carefully within that. But I think as a business
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  Speaker 3: we are really invested into our mission. We want to
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  Speaker 3: improve the lives of more Australians, and we're also pretty
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  Speaker 3: competitive and like to be number one.
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  Speaker 4: Speaking of scale, I'd love to just quickly ask you
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  Speaker 4: how long did it take to achieve that first billion
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  Speaker 4: dollars under advice?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, always say the first billion is the hardest, So
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  Speaker 3: it took us sixty three months or five years. It
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  Speaker 3: was incredibly challenging. And often say it never gets easy,
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  Speaker 3: but it gets easier. But yeah, that first billion was challenging.
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  Speaker 3: And that was actually around the same time that we
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  Speaker 3: broke even for the first time, which was significantly lower
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  Speaker 3: than a lot of our competitors and the big banks.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that reflects the found a family mindset definitely,
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  Speaker 3: where when it's your own money, you do tend to
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  Speaker 3: spend the money far more wisely.
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  Speaker 2: Speaking of growth and also profitability, I know you love
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  Speaker 2: the rule of forty. We've spoken some other leaders about
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  Speaker 2: the rule of forty as well, but within net wealth,
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  Speaker 2: how do you balance that growth and profitability and how
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  Speaker 2: do you strike that balance.
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  Speaker 3: You're pretty fortunate that at the moment we actually have
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  Speaker 3: a rule of seventy, so we've got incredibly healthy margins
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  Speaker 3: and incredibly healthy growth as well. The challenge is exactly
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  Speaker 3: is you've got to make sure that you're balancing that
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  Speaker 3: very carefully. And as you've touched on. We are very
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  Speaker 3: much a growth business. We're high growth in our customers
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  Speaker 3: or our investors expect us to continue that growth. There's
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  Speaker 3: no point not investing in the business and then finding
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  Speaker 3: in two or three years that you actually see that
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  Speaker 3: go anti growth and things slow down. So it's around
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  Speaker 3: looking at each year when we sit around the table
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  Speaker 3: and sort of work through budgets and strategy, what are
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  Speaker 3: the most important things that we can be working on
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  Speaker 3: this year. Where do we think we can really move
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  Speaker 3: the dial and have a really good ROI.
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  Speaker 2: So it's a.
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  Speaker 3: Constant battle and balance, and I think the successful companies
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  Speaker 3: really the ones that are really effective at prioritizing the
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  Speaker 3: right things.
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  Speaker 4: One thing I've always respected about net Wealth is how
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  Speaker 4: forward thinking the company is. What's the biggest idea or
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  Speaker 4: opportunity that you're thinking about for net Wealth over the
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  Speaker 4: next few years.
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  Speaker 3: Clearly flux that makes obvious, ye, So if I put
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Flucks on the side, the second most important thing I
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: looked at so much going on across the business, some
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: of the things that we're pretty excited about at the moment.
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  Speaker 3: That challenge to help advisors be able to service and
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  Speaker 3: bring on more customers. That's really around advice, enablement and
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: efficiency and removing friction. We're also investing heavily at the
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: moment into our stockbroking solution. We think that there's a
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  Speaker 3: huge opportunity for traditional stockbrokers to actually evolve their offerings
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  Speaker 3: in conjunction with us and take the best of what
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: they've always done and really future proof through some of
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: the tools that we're able to offer them and the
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: investments that we can provide to you. To drop the
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: AI word, it didn't come I thought it was finds
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: if I mentioned it. Look, ALI is clearly a game changer.
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  Speaker 3: And whilst there's certainly a lot of rabbit holes that
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: we've gone down that haven't delivered on what we would
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: have hoped, we've also had some huge success across the
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  Speaker 3: business in a whole range of areas, And every conversation
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  Speaker 3: I'm having internally ultimately does come back to AI and
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  Speaker 3: how are we using it? Where are we using it?
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  Speaker 3: The customer service opportunities and even some of the wins
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: that we've had there already are huge. And we've got
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: our first chatbots which just make it really convenient to
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: get responses to questions that we know. We get a
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  Speaker 3: lot of but don't necessarily have to be answered by
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: a human. We're using then ai over the top of
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: the chatbot for sentiment analysis, so you can very quickly
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: see if someone's getting frustrated with the chat, it'll swing
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: them up to a real person, so you can sort
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: of complete with that particular query. But that's really exciting.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: The efficiencies that we are starting to and should be
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: getting from the development and engineering teams will allow us
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: to develop and build things a lot quicker. Our design
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: teams are spinning up prototypes really quickly. Now for what
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: would have taken them a day, they can do in
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  Speaker 3: ten minutes. Now. It really is a game changer, and
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  Speaker 3: a lot of it will actually be commoditized away. And
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: so it's about also, how do you build bed ai
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: into what we do to enhance customer experiences that can't
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: be replicated elsewhere.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Matt, you're obviously CEO and managing director, but
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: how do you actually see your role today and what
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: do you see is the most important responsibility of being
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: the leader of now wealth.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: It's a great question. Different CEOs will have different strengths
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: and weaknesses and inevitably sort of focus on different areas.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: But I think the key role of a CEO is
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: very much about being out in the market and speaking
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: to customers, speaking to shareholders and investors, but more importantly,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: really helping define the vision for the company in the
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: mission and then communicating it and making sure everyone in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: the business is understanding what we're trying to achieve and
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: how they can align to it. Every day is different
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: and there's always fires to put out somewhere, but I
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: think at a high level it's really around defining that
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  Speaker 3: mission and vision and making sure that everyone's aligned and
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: working towards it. All.
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  Speaker 4: Right, let's get to know the real Matt outside of
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: net wealth. What are some things that get you really excited?
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: Well, AI, lots of things get me excited. I've got
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: a young family, so that there are always a lot
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: of fun exhausting, but a lot of fun, and like it,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: have a very supportive wife. I'm pretty passionate involved in
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: a range of arts institutions, so I really enjoy sort
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: of visual arts and also the industry that goes around,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: and I find that it's got its own unique set
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: of challenges that I get to sort of satisfy my
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: business interests as well as my creative interests, but you
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: do plenty of things. And I think that's really important
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: to get hacking by hacking all that. Because I've been
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: traveling a lot lately for work for a whole range
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: of reasons, I find routines actually can be really hard
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: to keep throughout the year for sure. And I know
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: that I've got when I'm not in a good routine,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: you can see the wheels falling off. Trying to get
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: that routine and get the fitness in and get to
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: the gym really important. All the things that are fatty
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: right now, so on as icepas, etc.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Love it all. Yeah, are there any podcasts you're listening
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: to at the moment you're enjoying? Any books that you
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: recommend to? The Flux Family.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Contrion's is one of my favorite podcasts. I'm a religious
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: listener to that when it drops every Tuesday. Also, i
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: think along a similar vein is Acquired. I think that's
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: a brilliant podcast for any business leader to listen to
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: all the And then there's a couple that I've just
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: started listening to, this one called Lenny's which is really
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: around product management. That's fantastic. They get brilliant guests and
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: it really aligns very much with how we try and
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: build product and where we want to take our product
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: capability too. So that's a great one. And then when
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I just need to tune out Hamish Nandy.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we'll move on to the Flux five. These
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: are questions we ask all of our amazing guests.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: On the pod.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: First question, if you weren't leading that wealth, what's a
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: job that you would secretly or not so secretly love
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: to do.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: I think if I hadn't spent twenty years at Networth,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: I'd probably still be working at Nando's, a great, great
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: opportunity to learn on the job. What would I be doing?
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I think it would actually be something in design or
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: more creative field. Mum was interior designer, Dad was a
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: business person and I seem to have ended up with
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: strong attributes to both. And whilst I can't draw or paint,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I really enjoyed sort of really good design and art,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: so maybe something in that industry. Actually at UNI applied
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: for advertising and didn't get into that, but yeah, I
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: think that was that sort of creative slash business as
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: that I really enjoyed.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And that is there a leader who's inspired you the most?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: It could be within net Wealth, or within your business
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: world at Nando's, or it could be something outside of
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: business as well.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: It's funny to say this because five years ago, there's
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: no way I would have said this. I think the
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: way that Microsoft has reinvented itself and the way that
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Satia has actually done it has been nothing short of miraculous.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: For someone who is so humble to redirect and reposition
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: a business with one hundred and fifty thousand employees in
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: a hyper competitive market and once again totally redefine the company.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's absolute brilliant what they've done.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: There is there a specific failure or setback that you
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: now look back on and say, yeah, that was a
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: turning point for me in my career or for Netwealth.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: There's plenty of them. I don't think there's one defining one.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I think if you're not failing, you're not learning. I
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: do love putting myself out of my comfort zone, and
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: I think if you're not doing that, you're just you're
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: not growing.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: What's something that puts you out of your comfort zone?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Like, what do you feel uncomfortable doing?
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Shaving the beard?
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Shaving the beard? Yeah, exactly.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: It changes day by day. There's always something that you
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: need to learn, and it might be something within the business.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Public speaking is that one of them.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Know.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Public speaking is a great example. I used to hate it,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: and it's like anything you practice it, and now I'm
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: one of those sicicos that actually, I think, like you two,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: actually really enjoys it and I get a real buzz
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: from it. I think it's great fun.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And obviously we've spoken about the rituals and habits that
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: you like to do. But is it something you commit
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to every single day that you want to do in
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the morning or in the afternoon, that you stick to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that makes it feel good.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Not particularly at the moment, like I am out of
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: my routine. Normally it would sort of start with more
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: often than not, I get to the gym three or
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: four times a week, and I think that's a really
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: good way to start the day. And as I slowly
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: get older, some of these things are really important just
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to keep mobile. I'm an avid scare so I really
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: need to make sure that I'm fit and healthy and
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: can do that. But yeah, between injuries and travel, that
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: routine is a bit challenging at the moment.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: And last question for you, what is the best investment
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: you've ever made? Can be money, it could be time,
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: It could be your energy.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Definitely net wealth in that regard.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and is that money, time or energy? Great? I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: think it's the Trio. Awesome. Matt. Thanks so much for
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: joining us on what the Flexing Conversation. Always great to
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: get into the nitty gritty details and finding out all
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: the new things about you, like working at nando.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: That's been a lot of fun.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Thanks guys, flex Am. We hope you enjoyed our in
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Conversation episode with Matt Heiner, CEO of Netwell. On Wednesday,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: we're looking at the rise of the Aussie female athlete economy.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: From the Matilda's becoming Australia's most valuable sporting brand, to
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: women's cricket breaking dealership records. We're breaking down how the
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: female athlete economy is growing and where the money is
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: actually reaching. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on Wednesday.