Latest / Team of the eighties / Lifelong Palace Fan and Former Editor of the Racing Post , Bruce Millington picks his best Palace XI

Transcript

Lifelong Palace Fan and Former Editor of the Racing Post , Bruce Millington picks his best Palace XI · Team of the eighties

• 0:00
  Taylor.
• 0:01
  Oh, what a goal by Peter Taylor.
• 0:23
  Oh, welcome to team of the 80s.
• 0:25
  My name is Gary Spencer.
• 0:26
  Just before we start today's show, please like, comment and subscribe.
• 0:30
  It does help the algorithm and more people that tune in, the more people who's got an opinion.
• 0:34
  And it's all about you guys and it's not really about me.
• 0:37
  Today's guest log.
• 0:39
  Long time Crystal palace fan and also at the racing post for 11 years as the editor.
• 0:45
  So it's my great pleasure today to bring onto the show Bruce Millington.
• 0:50
  Bruce, how you doing, mate?
• 0:51
  Morning, Gary.
• 0:52
  How are you, mate?
• 0:53
  I'm very well, thanks for coming on.
• 0:54
  Like me, you've been in and around the club for a long time.
• 0:57
  I think you've got a great opinion on Crystal palace and it's great to have you on, mate.
• 1:01
  Thank you.
• 1:02
  Good to be here.
• 1:03
  Yeah, I mean, I, I was just thinking back before I came on, it's now coming up to 50, 54 years since my first game, which makes me feel absolutely ancient, but.
• 1:16
  54 years, okay.
• 1:18
  Yeah.
• 1:20
  October 72, palace two leads to.
• 1:24
  So I, I think we probably started watching at the same time, Bruce.
• 1:27
  Mine was.
• 1:28
  And you might know the game, I think it was a.
• 1:30
  Well, it was a Cup game two in the Mitchum away, but I was around nine or 10.
• 1:35
  I'm.
• 1:36
  I'm 63 now, so it was around nine.
• 1:39
  It would have been rough at that time.
• 1:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41
  I don't remember us playing too much.
• 1:42
  I remember was playing Walton and Hersham in the cup in about 76, 77.
• 1:47
  But, well, that was the start of the run.
• 1:49
  Walton immersion.
• 1:50
  That was just not sure if it was actually that.
• 1:52
  Yeah, I can't remember.
• 1:53
  It all bleeds into one.
• 1:54
  And as you know, Gary, when you get to our age, the memory does start playing tricks, doesn't it?
• 1:58
  Yeah, sometimes in a good way.
• 2:02
  So tell me, Bruce, tell me if before we get on to that, the nuts and bolts of the palace stuff, tell me how, how you started in journalism now you became the editor of the Post.
• 2:13
  Because that's very interesting to me.
• 2:15
  I mean, I got really lucky.
• 2:17
  I grew up in.
• 2:18
  I grew up in South Nord, half a mile from Sellers park, went to the local primary school.
• 2:26
  The kid in the year below my brother was in the year below me with some kid called Simon Jordan, who was, who was quite lively apparently.
• 2:35
  And.
• 2:35
  Yeah, and I just had normal education around there and then left school and by the time I got to sort of my mid teens, I suppose I'd started getting bang into racing and Betting and greyhound racing and kind
• 2:49
  of thought I'd really like to work in that industry.
• 2:52
  Didn't really have a clue how to get in.
• 2:53
  And then I remember one day me and my mate, we were going to win Canton races and we hitched a lift with this bloke and he worked as a bookmaker's representative at the races.
• 3:05
  And I was saying I'd love to work in that industry.
• 3:07
  And he said, well, just write to all the bookmakers, see if you can get foot in the door.
• 3:10
  And I got a job with Mecca in their credit office up in Avery Street.
• 3:18
  So Avery Road, pardon me, in Soho.
• 3:20
  Went, left school, went to work there at 16 and then got a job at Hackney Greyhound Stadium in sort of organizing the racing there.
• 3:29
  Loved that.
• 3:29
  And I got to meet a journalist from the Sporting.
• 3:31
  I've there great man called Bob Betts and I told him I'd love to work on the papers and he got me a few shifts just doing very basic stuff and then an opportunity arose there.
• 3:41
  So I got a foot in the door and just basically worked my way up from there.
• 3:44
  I was working as a greyhound racing reporter for best part of 10 years, eight years.
• 3:49
  And then sports betting was taken off.
• 3:52
  Then Gary, you know, I mean, obviously back in the day when we were much younger, it was pretty much all horses and dogs.
• 3:57
  And then when sports betting started getting popular, I switched to that and became sports editor and then the Racing Post and the Sporting Life merged and I was sports editor of that.
• 4:07
  And then after a few years there, the edit, the job as editor came up and I got it and did that for, yeah, 11 years.
• 4:14
  So, yeah, it's been a bit lucky.
• 4:17
  Wow.
• 4:17
  I've worked hard, done.
• 4:18
  I've done, done as well as I, I tried to, yes.
• 4:22
  And yeah, it all worked out well, really.
• 4:24
  I mean I, I always love to have been playing up front for palace, but failing that, I kind of feel like I've probably done my second favorite job, you know.
• 4:32
  Yeah, wouldn't we all?
• 4:35
  Yeah, that's great.
• 4:36
  So no journalist training?
• 4:38
  None at all.
• 4:39
  Honestly, none at all.
• 4:41
  You look you in life, Gary.
• 4:42
  We all need a little bit of luck and you know, if the, if the door opens, you've got to push against it and force your way through and then make the best of the opportunity and that, that's really
• 4:51
  what I did.
• 4:51
  But it could easily have gone completely differently.
• 4:54
  You know, I was just a kid from South Norwood and sort of, yeah, I'm, I'm very lucky and very grateful for, for how it all went really.
• 5:03
  On that point you just made, I totally agree, I totally agree about grafting hard and, and not necessarily having the right qualifications.
• 5:13
  So many times, you know, over the years when I've been in and around work and, and I see the, what people are asking for.
• 5:21
  But yeah, you can have that, but unless you have the drive and unless you have the ground roots knowledge, sometimes you're going to fall flat, you know, So I, I completely agree with you there.
• 5:30
  When, when you, when you was a punter, if you, if you was a punter, was you having, was you having a lot of success as a punter?
• 5:37
  Bruce?
• 5:37
  Not really, no.
• 5:38
  I was pretty recreational most of the way through really.
• 5:41
  And you know, and I, I, I worked with and knew a lot of extremely shrewd people, whether they were betting on horses, football, boxing, cricket, greyhounds or whatever.
• 5:53
  And they were really terrific.
• 5:54
  And to be honest, there's a, there's a phrase, there's an old saying in betting.
• 5:58
  If you can't be a good judge, be a good judge of judges, which means follow the right people.
• 6:03
  So I used to basically just, you know, if, if I, if, I mean the Racing Post headline tips to Tom Siegel, for instance, price wise, he's absolutely different class.
• 6:12
  You know, if I'm having a few bets on Saturday, there's no point me sitting there with the Racing Post trying to work it all out on, on form.
• 6:19
  Sometimes I'll have my own opinion.
• 6:21
  But likewise with football.
• 6:22
  Mark Langdon, who's the Ray who took over from me as Racing Post head of sport and, and he's a fantastic judge.
• 6:28
  He's one of the best football analysts there is.
• 6:31
  He's, he's knocking it out of the park on the Guardian podcast now he's Football Weekly.
• 6:36
  He's terrific.
• 6:37
  And you know, he, he'll, he'll, at the start of the season, I say Oji fancy for the four divisions and I'll have a little each way Yankee, you know, but yeah, it's, it's always been a big part of,
• 6:47
  of what I've done and I've always really enjoyed it, but I've never kind of got myself into a situation where I'm overexposed or it's getting myself into trouble because there's no point.
• 6:55
  You've just got to keep it fun.
• 6:57
  That's great.
• 6:57
  I, I, I, as you was talking to me there, I, my nan loved a bet, but again, it was a, it was a small bet but she'd always have like the, the paper open and she was going through
• 7:07
  the form and Stuff like that.
• 7:09
  And that, by the way, was the.
• 7:11
  That's how I got into supporting palace, because my, my nan, my mother's mother, my grandmother, she lived in Whitehall's Lane there.
• 7:23
  Yeah.
• 7:23
  Right next to ground on 277, up where that first parade of shops is.
• 7:28
  So in taking me up to visit my nan, that's how I got into watching palace.
• 7:34
  And, and then consequently, every home game for years, we'd start off at Nan's and finish off after the game up there and you could see the floodlights and stuff.
• 7:46
  So that was the tie in there with, with my number.
• 7:50
  Like, it's such an iconic newspaper that I'm so interested that side of your life, because as a, you know, people that don't know this now, and I don't know what goes on in the, in the, in the betting
• 8:00
  shops in, in England anymore, you'd walk in and that would be it.
• 8:06
  Like the racing life and everything.
• 8:08
  That would be your guide.
• 8:09
  That'd be your bible.
• 8:11
  Still the case.
• 8:11
  Yeah.
• 8:12
  Okay.
• 8:13
  Is it, is it, is it more of an online publication now, Bruce?
• 8:16
  Yes, it is now.
• 8:17
  I mean, when I was editor, we launched the app and, and beefed up the website and I kind of over.
• 8:23
  From, from taking over as editor in 2007 to leaving in 2018, it had totally changed.
• 8:30
  I mean, 2007, it was all about the newspaper.
• 8:32
  We did have a website, but it wasn't really high priority.
• 8:35
  By the time I left, I was barely even paying the newspaper any attention.
• 8:39
  It was all about the online stuff and the app and, you know, an incredible transformation and a really exciting thing to be part of.
• 8:46
  Definitely.
• 8:46
  But, you know, betting faces challenges now.
• 8:49
  They're regulating it.
• 8:50
  There's the gambling commissions come in, they're making it a lot harder.
• 8:53
  A lot of people who are just recreational punters are being asked to show their bank statements and all that kind of thing in order to be able to deposit money.
• 9:01
  Yeah, it's not good.
• 9:01
  It's really not good.
• 9:03
  Look, we, we obviously need to make sure that vulnerable people who are going to, who might get themselves into trouble get the protection they need.
• 9:12
  But in doing that, they're catching up a lot of people who, you know, like your nan, that would be a big part of her life, having a little daily bet and it's harmless and there's no problem with it.
• 9:22
  But these people are now, like I say, having to hand over personal information that you wouldn't hand over to anyone except maybe a mortgage company again.
• 9:29
  Yes, because if they'd have looked into my Nan's bank account, they'd have found no dough and they would have thought she was exposing herself to absolute.
• 9:35
  Understood.
• 9:36
  Yeah.
• 9:36
  I mean, over here, there's a company I use called DraftKings.
• 9:40
  You're probably familiar with them.
• 9:43
  Sometimes it's tough to get something on over in the UK that you fancy.
• 9:47
  You know, I put silly little bets together over here for accumulators and stuff.
• 9:51
  Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't.
• 9:53
  I think the last decent result I had was Argentina versus Spain in the World Cup Final.
• 10:00
  I just fancied Neil new at 90 minutes because.
• 10:03
  Well.
• 10:04
  Yeah, well, they're tough to play against.
• 10:05
  They're going to make it difficult for you.
• 10:06
  And to me, I felt like if I was going to make any money out of that game, that would be the bet.
• 10:12
  So your first memory of a.
• 10:15
  As a Palace fan, your first game, do you remember it in any way?
• 10:20
  The night before, I was getting ready for bed and my dad came out and he said.
• 10:25
  He said, I've got good news.
• 10:26
  He said, my mate's given me his two season tickets for the Leeds game tomorrow.
• 10:31
  And I could not believe it.
• 10:33
  I was.
• 10:33
  I still remember I was only five and I was so excited.
• 10:36
  And I just remember going along, we were in the Arthur Weight, which was obviously then terracing in the bottom half and seats at the back, and we were in the seats at the back and just found the whole
• 10:48
  thing absolutely magical.
• 10:49
  And, you know, I was basically hooked from the moment I walked in there.
• 10:52
  It was just the noise, the atmosphere, the passion, the kind of.
• 10:56
  And obviously Leeds had that incredible team with Lorimer and Bremner and Jackie Charlton and Rainey and Madely and all those superstars, and it was just brilliant.
• 11:07
  I just thought to myself, wow, this is.
• 11:09
  This is something else.
• 11:10
  This is phenomenal.
• 11:11
  72.
• 11:13
  Who's the boss?
• 11:14
  Don Revie.
• 11:15
  You would have been Revie at that point.
• 11:17
  Yeah, yeah.
• 11:18
  And I guess Bert Head would have been palace boss.
• 11:20
  You just referenced the atmosphere there, and I'm very aware, and I'm sure we both are, that the Homestead Ultras have done a lot for the club.
• 11:31
  I feel they've done a lot more as a media PR from the n.
• 11:35
  The actual physical being there.
• 11:37
  Yes, they have made a noise, but a lot of the fans at the moment are talking about, oh, there's no atmosphere.
• 11:43
  Well, if you start to play a bit better, there will be an atmosphere.
• 11:46
  There was before and there will be again, you know, so.
• 11:49
  And you referenced that just now.
• 11:51
  The atmosphere at Sellers park has always been good, particularly in the early years, the second division, the third division, you know, we were getting, we were getting 15,000 in the third division.
• 12:01
  People forget that then we were, I mean Obviously in the 80s, Gary, there was a real big slump, wasn't there?
• 12:06
  The first part of the 80s before Koppel came along was the, was definitely the hardest period of being a Palace fan.
• 12:14
  I mean literally you were getting sub 5000 crowds for league games.
• 12:19
  You could hear all the abuse that these poor guys like Gary Stabbing were receiving.
• 12:24
  The football was poor.
• 12:25
  We were stuck in, in what was then second division, now the championship.
• 12:30
  So.
• 12:30
  But you know, I mean, apart from that, I would agree with you.
• 12:32
  I think it's always been good and I definitely agree with you that I think team performance and style of play dictates what the atmosphere is like.
• 12:40
  I mean, you know, even when the Ultras were at their peak, I don't think anyone sat through a two nil defeat and everyone was singing non stop.
• 12:49
  I mean, don't get me wrong, they made a fantastic noise and I think they were, they were terrific.
• 12:53
  But you know, you are right, if the players play well and the team's going well, then the atmosphere is fine.
• 13:00
  Actually, I think it's a more inclusive collective atmosphere because obviously the, the chance, etc aren't so exclusive.
• 13:09
  You know, they are still there.
• 13:10
  I mean they haven't all given up their season tickets, have they?
• 13:13
  They, you know, they just don't.
• 13:14
  They're not as you might call such an organized collective anymore, but they're still going, they still love it just as much and they are still singing.
• 13:22
  So I still think they probably do lead the choir, but they just, they don't have that official title anymore.
• 13:28
  These guys have been doing it a long time.
• 13:31
  You know, I mean I look at the guy who stands there with the megaphone with his back to the game.
• 13:35
  He's not a young man.
• 13:36
  And I don't know whether sometimes some of the guys who've been there from the start, I just thought, you know what, I don't mind just sitting there and watching the game.
• 13:43
  Maybe they thought this is our chance of our way out.
• 13:46
  You know, they haven't lied their way out of it or anything like that.
• 13:49
  I mean, I think that, you know, they've, they've been fantastic for so many years and I don't think as many palace fans would have an issue with that.
• 13:56
  So maybe, you know, ultimately the end of the day they've just decided to, to just turn up, watch, sing, enjoy the game.
• 14:03
  And if that's true, then fair Play to them.
• 14:06
  I think.
• 14:06
  I think when we.
• 14:07
  I'm just thinking here, I think when we first started going, the.
• 14:10
  The equivalent of the ultras was the guy with the bell, remember?
• 14:15
  But you also had Gary in the homestyle when it was.
• 14:17
  It was a terrace.
• 14:18
  You had three sections, these sort of thick aluminum rails going up and dividing it into three, basically, because one of them was the.
• 14:28
  The away end.
• 14:29
  But you'd have that sort of like those lads who'd gather almost, if you were in Whitehorse, you'd look up there and you'd almost see like a square of them packed more tightly than anyone else.
• 14:38
  Correct.
• 14:38
  And that they were the sort of, you know, the beating heart of the noise back in the day.
• 14:44
  I don't know how long Soho's part will.
• 14:46
  Will be fit for purpose.
• 14:47
  That's the only thing.
• 14:47
  Now, obviously, they're building the new stand, but where I am in the after way, I have to say, the fan experience in there, Gary, is just.
• 14:54
  It's just appalling.
• 14:56
  And I'm actually half surprised it even gets its license every year.
• 15:00
  It's safety certificate.
• 15:01
  I mean, it's no one's fault particularly, but you've just got.
• 15:04
  It is tight.
• 15:05
  You've got a very low rake, so you can't, you know, you're peering over other people, you've got the sun in your eyes.
• 15:11
  The toilets are an absolute disgrace.
• 15:14
  The cues for the food and drink are terrible.
• 15:17
  I mean, to be honest, I cannot wait till they get the new stand built, because when they do that, there will be an opportunity for.
• 15:24
  There's eight of us who go.
• 15:26
  So we can't just swap and go anywhere because there isn't.
• 15:29
  There's never going to be 8.
• 15:30
  Seats become available elsewhere for all that.
• 15:33
  It is ramshackle.
• 15:34
  I still adore the place and I still get a massive buzz walking down those steps to my seat every home game.
• 15:41
  It's the best feeling.
• 15:43
  I just lost my bearings there for a second.
• 15:45
  The Arthur White is the side where the gantry is.
• 15:49
  So what facing the stand, where the dugout is.
• 15:52
  You know, when I was a kid, Bruce, I.
• 15:54
  I went in and painted most of that.
• 15:57
  That was like I was 12 or 13.
• 16:00
  And I saw Neil Everett the other day.
• 16:02
  He posted a.
• 16:03
  A picture and there I was.
• 16:06
  I was like 13, 14 years old.
• 16:08
  It was about 25 of us went in one summer and we painted everything red and blue.
• 16:13
  There was no dough, you know, so the club just said, well, if you guys want to paint it, paint it.
• 16:18
  Of the Arthur Waite stand.
• 16:19
  Where the, where the kind of roof, the end of the roof that was thick red and blue stripes, wasn't it?
• 16:24
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:25
  No, I didn't have to go up and do that.
• 16:27
  I didn't get up there, do that.
• 16:29
  No, but all the stanchions, you know, did.
• 16:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, red and blue, the doors up the top by the bathrooms.
• 16:38
  The club was, you know, that would have been 73, 74.
• 16:44
  That was, that was.
• 16:46
  Yeah, it was a different club then, you know, much more of a.
• 16:52
  Listen, the Premier League changed a lot of things, but much more of a family oriented club.
• 16:56
  Everybody kind of knew everybody else.
• 16:58
  I know that's hard to believe when there's like 15,000, 18,000 going, but a nucleus of people, shall we say, had connections throughout the club and like most things before the Premier League came along, it was a much more
• 17:16
  family oriented club.
• 17:18
  For sure.
• 17:18
  The Premier League changed things for good and bad.
• 17:21
  It did, Gary.
• 17:22
  But if you look at it, you know, palace is still, you know, an old school ground in the middle of a working class area.
• 17:30
  And I like that.
• 17:31
  I mean I did think to myself that if at the point at which they were looking to build the main stand, I wondered if, when.
• 17:37
  I mean you probably haven't been to Croydon for quite a while but the Wickiff center is in a very sorry state, a very sorry state indeed.
• 17:44
  There's hardly any shops left and I wondered whether there was scope to maybe redevelop that and build a ground there with you know, maybe like a concert hall as well, you know, for bands to come down and play
• 17:59
  and get some shops and restaurants and bars around it and really do a great job in there because I think that would help regenerate Central Cross Croydon, which it desperately needs.
• 18:08
  But they've obviously committed to the stand now and after years and years and years of wrangling they finally got, they're breaking ground now and they're getting on with it.
• 18:16
  So let's hope that comes to fruition and that works out well.
• 18:19
  But I mean the one thing I would say to fans is that it does need to be paid for.
• 18:24
  These things aren't cheap.
• 18:25
  They always spiral out of.
• 18:27
  Or the costs tend to, to spiral out, don't they?
• 18:30
  So, you know, it is a financial burden and you have to look at how Tottenham and Arsenal and all these other clubs that have had to do that have, have, you know, have suffered as a result.
• 18:40
  And there isn't always going to be a bottomless pit to, to buy players.
• 18:44
  But you know, you'd have to hope that we, you know, in those three or four years where it is stretching us financially to build the newsstand that we can stay in the Premier League.
• 18:56
  Yeah, I, I, I think, I think we may have, we might have discussed this before on Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it.
• 19:06
  Certainly would be a great position there in the middle of Croydon and, and.
• 19:12
  Well, I stopped people moaning about it being a hard place to get to.
• 19:15
  Oh mate.
• 19:16
  The last time I, last time I went to the Wicked center was about four years ago and I was, I was actually shocked, you know, I was over and I was actually shocked at how bad it had become.
• 19:28
  Particularly be, particularly witnessing the opening of the Wick Gives center and what it did for the area when it opened, it just, it just become a very sad dilapidate.
• 19:40
  And even places like St.
• 19:41
  George's Walk, which used to be very, very nice, was, was a, was, was a, was a ghost town.
• 19:48
  It was, you'd have been like me, you know, a North Croydon boy.
• 19:51
  Every Saturday I used to get the 68 with my mates and we'd jump in and go to Croydon.
• 19:56
  That's what you do.
• 19:56
  And it was bustling and it was busy and yeah, the main Croydon High street wasn't pedestrianized then.
• 20:02
  The buses would go down past Grants and Orders and it was absolutely mobbed.
• 20:07
  And you know, from, from, from that to what it is now is, is quite sad to see.
• 20:12
  It really is hopefully a new ground that is going to take the club somewhere that it, it's that we've never known.
• 20:18
  You know, I'm not sure that the two seasons we've just had we're ever going to get them again.
• 20:22
  I hope I'm wrong.
• 20:23
  I'd love to see it.
• 20:24
  But it's not just the two seasons we've had.
• 20:26
  It's the 13 seasons in the top flight as well.
• 20:29
  I just, I think people become a bit sort of blase about it.
• 20:34
  How hard it is to stay in that division, how hard it is to compete with these state owned clubs or Bankroll by Zillionaires.
• 20:42
  I think we've done incredibly.
• 20:44
  And as long as, to be honest, as long as we, you know, I'd love us to stay in the Premier League.
• 20:49
  If we have to go back to being a bit of a yo yo club, I'll still turn up.
• 20:55
  But it's, it's, you know, how can we possibly relive two seasons of winning FA cup and then, you know, Conference League?
• 21:04
  All my palace dreams have come true in the last two years.
• 21:06
  I'm quite happy and I think I've discussed this and I think you and I may have disagreed on this before.
• 21:13
  I, I'm quite happy with the club to stay in and around the Premier League but not drop out of it.
• 21:19
  And if it, if, if that's like 14th, 15th, I personally feel that's where we are.
• 21:24
  Right.
• 21:24
  So, like, and now that the money's changed in the game, that's probably where we're going to end up because the, the big clubs have, have made it that way and, But I'm fine with that, you know, I, I,
• 21:37
  it's, it's not a given as, as other clubs have shown, it's.
• 21:42
  Unless they're being a prime example because they won it not so long ago, 10 years ago.
• 21:46
  It's not a given that you stay in that division and I think we've done very, very, very well to stay in there.
• 21:52
  And we both see fans on X saying that they want this, this, this and this.
• 21:59
  Trust me, mate, you and I both know we've watched the club for a long, long time.
• 22:03
  What we've done in the last 18 months is fantastic.
• 22:06
  That probably won't come again.
• 22:07
  Right.
• 22:08
  We're going to nick a cup.
• 22:09
  I actually fancy us to nick the caribou this year for.
• 22:12
  I don't know why, I just feel that we came into it, we missed a round, we've got three or four rounds to go.
• 22:18
  If we get the draw, we might be all right.
• 22:21
  I certainly don't fancy us in the Europa.
• 22:24
  I just don't, I, I just think we're going to get, don't forget we nearly got done last year very early on and, and I think that we could, that could very well happen this year.
• 22:32
  But, but let's see, you know.
• 22:34
  Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing I would say about, you know, people who, who say that, you know, we're not spending enough, we need to spend more.
• 22:42
  Where, how high can we get in the league really?
• 22:45
  Realistically?
• 22:45
  Okay, we might.
• 22:47
  Particularly with Europe.
• 22:48
  Okay.
• 22:49
  If we weren't in Europe this year and we had the squad we've got now, you might go on a run, have some luck with injuries and you might finish sixth, seventh, eighth at a push.
• 23:00
  Right.
• 23:00
  But how much have you got to spend to do that?
• 23:03
  And what, what are you actually achieving?
• 23:05
  What's the difference between palace finishing 15th and 9th?
• 23:09
  There isn't any.
• 23:10
  Okay.
• 23:11
  It's nice, it's great to say we're in the top half, but you have to be sensible.
• 23:16
  We are Crystal Palace.
• 23:17
  There is a direct link between ground capacity, size of club, history of club and revenue.
• 23:25
  And revenue is what allows you to buy the best players and pay them the best wages.
• 23:29
  There's a phrase people use, we want to go to the next level.
• 23:32
  There isn't a next level.
• 23:34
  There is a next level, but it's not up, it's down.
• 23:37
  I remember when Kirby was at Charlton and Charlton fans would ring up the phone ins and they'd say, this is a great world for us, but we need someone who can take us to the next level.
• 23:46
  Mate, you got to the next level fairly quickly.
• 23:49
  It's the championship.
• 23:50
  I, I think, I think we're fantastically well run and I think that when I see criticism that Parish and the other owners get, I just, it, it amazes me, if I'm honest.
• 24:01
  It absolutely staggers me because the job they've done, taking us from literally the brink of oblivion to the Premier league within about 18 months and then keeping us there and then adding these trophies and now building the stand,
• 24:16
  I mean, come on, it's, it's, it's astonishing.
• 24:19
  I think we've got best owners in the or, best chairman in the league.
• 24:22
  What, what more could we be doing?
• 24:25
  It's all very well saying, well, you know, the Americans have got billions, but what you want them to do, you can't go to any individual and say, hi, mate, do you mind giving us 80 million?
• 24:36
  We want to buy this player.
• 24:38
  They don't get to being billionaires by doing things like that, do they?
• 24:42
  You know, we've, we've dreamed and we've achieved our dreams, but let's not start thinking we can now break into the old big six or anything, because that isn't going to happen.
• 24:52
  We just need to make sure that we're sensible, we recruit well, we don't overspend, we don't overpay and that we stay in the Premier League.
• 25:02
  I think we probably, if we drop down, I think we'd be okay.
• 25:05
  But there's a lot of clubs thought that and they're still in the championship or in League one, so you just have to be a bit realistic, I think, sometimes.
• 25:14
  Yeah, no, I, I was going to echo you there, actually.
• 25:16
  Like, it's, it's, it's very easy after 12, 13 years, I think we've been back in there to, to, to think that's the norm.
• 25:23
  But you and I, we've supported the club long enough to know that that's not the norm.
• 25:28
  You can't believe it now, but there were less than 5,000 people for, for what are now championship home games.
• 25:34
  You still supporting the club through those times as well, right?
• 25:37
  You're still going every week?
• 25:38
  I was, absolutely.
• 25:39
  Because a.
• 25:40
  They're my club.
• 25:41
  If you're a fan, I mean, is it Coppola who said the only loyalty in football is between the fan and the club?
• 25:47
  And he's probably right.
• 25:48
  But also, I've always lived near the ground.
• 25:51
  I've always had friends I go with.
• 25:53
  So it's a social thing as well, really, Gary.
• 25:54
  You know, it's not just I don't turn up on my own and sit there and, you know, hope we get three points.
• 25:59
  All the season ticket holders are around where we are.
• 26:02
  Fantastic.
• 26:02
  And it's just a nice, it's a nice thing to do.
• 26:05
  It's great.
• 26:05
  And obviously, you know, you hope you're going to win, but if you don't, you let off a bit of steam and you go home and you look forward to the next game, don't you?
• 26:12
  It's just interesting there you touching on that culturally, how the, the, the, the.
• 26:18
  The match day pans out.
• 26:20
  Because I think, I think that does happen here, but not in, in.
• 26:24
  So, you know, it's the pub, it's the before, it's the after here.
• 26:28
  If that happens at all.
• 26:29
  It probably happens in a tailgating experience within the car park.
• 26:33
  You go with like seven or eight friends.
• 26:35
  Right, Bruce?
• 26:36
  So it's such a great day out when you do it like that.
• 26:38
  And then you can, you know, everyone's got a different opinion.
• 26:41
  Everyone's gonna talk about the game, the build up to the game, you know, the expectancy of the day.
• 26:47
  Hopefully it lives up to what the actual game is.
• 26:50
  But yeah, that, that, those, that type of atmosphere in sport in England is something I miss because I.
• 26:59
  You don't get it here.
• 27:00
  The.
• 27:00
  Right, there's no real rivalries or stuff like that.
• 27:03
  You know, the conversation, it's.
• 27:05
  It's a very blurred line about who somebody supports.
• 27:10
  New day, new day.
• 27:11
  Don't.
• 27:11
  It's more about the, like most things in America, it's more about the, the, the actual event rather than who you're supporting.
• 27:19
  Can you remember your, your first real memorable Crystal palace game, Bruce?
• 27:25
  I suppose it would relate to the 76 cup run, wouldn't it?
• 27:31
  The games against Sunderland and Chelsea and then obviously the heartbreak of Southampton and you know, the, the kind of charisma of Malcolm Allison and the fact that, you know, don't forget we were in the third division then we
• 27:44
  were in what's Now League one, then, you know, I mean, it was phenomenal.
• 27:48
  And obviously we got beaten in the semi by championship club.
• 27:52
  The Crystal palace team is the one that won it leads.
• 27:54
  The only survivor there from the side which last played Chelsea in the cup some five years ago is number two, Peter A.
• 28:00
  Wall.
• 28:01
  And his role in the palace defense.
• 28:02
  Today could be more than interesting in Southampton.
• 28:05
  So that was.
• 28:06
  That was when palace were really making headlines.
• 28:09
  Wilkins who fell and Whittle who benefited.
• 28:12
  Swindlehurst going through the middle.
• 28:14
  Here's Taylor again.
• 28:15
  And palace now is stretching.
• 28:16
  Chelsea ch's going inside again.
• 28:18
  There he is, on again for Taylor.
• 28:23
  Well, this man may well have won the toy in the space of two minutes.
• 28:27
  And you kind of.
• 28:29
  I felt like that massive pride that my team was suddenly doing this stuff.
• 28:34
  So, yeah, that would be it.
• 28:35
  And then after that, really, obviously you were fairly quickly into team of the 80s.
• 28:39
  The phrase that spawned your podcast, that.
• 28:43
  That was exciting for a while.
• 28:45
  You know, obviously leading up to the night against Burnley with 51,000 crammed into the ground, it went very wrong very quickly, didn't it?
• 28:53
  And we were.
• 28:54
  We were from that high and believing we would be the team of the 80s, which, you know, unfortunately weren't, but the start of the 80s, we very much weren't.
• 29:03
  It was when Copple came along that.
• 29:05
  That things picked up and got very exciting again to the extent.
• 29:08
  And then I know getting to the 1990 cup final was the thing that people associate with that team, but don't forget, we also finished third in the league the next year.
• 29:17
  Obviously couldn't get into Europe because the.
• 29:19
  The Heisel ban was still in force.
• 29:21
  But so, you know, there's been kind of ebbs and flows and peaks and troughs.
• 29:26
  But in answer to your question, going back to 76 was probably the first time that I thought, wow, this is, you know, we are a team that are actually not just Little palace, you know, playing against Preston and
• 29:38
  whoever.
• 29:38
  We're actually.
• 29:39
  We're actually doing something here and getting some recognition.
• 29:41
  Loved it.
• 29:42
  It was a fantastic run.
• 29:44
  I went to all those games since the first one.
• 29:46
  So.
• 29:47
  Leeds.
• 29:51
  Yeah, mate.
• 29:51
  Sunderland, obviously.
• 29:53
  Southampton.
• 29:57
  Yeah.
• 29:58
  My.
• 29:59
  That was.
• 29:59
  Oh, I forget how old I was, Bruce.
• 30:01
  13, 14, I guess, for that amazing experience.
• 30:07
  Amazing Chelsea.
• 30:11
  And, you know, the funny thing is about that, and I don't know, I think people forget people.
• 30:16
  We have a sort of a romantic vision of that time because of the cup run, but in the league we weren't putting up many trees, were we, that year?
• 30:25
  I don't think we were.
• 30:26
  No, no, we didn't go up that year, did we?
• 30:28
  Must have been following season.
• 30:29
  We went up.
• 30:31
  We then obviously had to go again in 79.
• 30:34
  Up to the, up to the top flight.
• 30:36
  And along came Sansom and, and Hillaire and you know, that really, really mustard team who were just so, so good and that, that, that.
• 30:46
  They were brilliant, weren't they?
• 30:48
  Listen, mate, fantastic time but that cup run, you know, if you break down our team, we had a good side, you know, we had a good side.
• 30:56
  A side where you feel that.
• 30:58
  Are they struggling in the third?
• 31:00
  You know, Whittle and Taylor were fantastic players, weren't they?
• 31:04
  Now we'll take this kick.
• 31:07
  Is this going to be a problem for Crystal Palace?
• 31:10
  It's not because Hammond is there.
• 31:12
  And look at that for a good throw straight into the path of Peter Taylor.
• 31:16
  Whittle is up with him as well.
• 31:18
  Taylor taking on Bolton.
• 31:20
  Moncair getting in behind Bolton and he needs to.
• 31:24
  He's going past Moncair as well.
• 31:26
  There's the cross coming in.
• 31:27
  Whistle ago.
• 31:28
  Alan Whittle.
• 31:34
  Well, palace have gone ahead with less than 15 minutes to go.
• 31:40
  Malcolm was great.
• 31:41
  I, I love Malcolm Allison.
• 31:43
  I thought he was great for the club, certainly great for the PR at the club.
• 31:46
  Maybe you disagree with me here because of the type of managers we've had in the past.
• 31:50
  I will always feel, and maybe it's a little bit of a romantic notion, I will always feel that Terry Vernon was the best coach, mainly because I'm aware of how he coached as well and, and, and some of
• 32:03
  the players that he coached and how he coached.
• 32:05
  Obviously he didn't have the success that Glassner has had.
• 32:09
  Malcolm did.
• 32:10
  I think Malcolm did more for the PR at a club than he actually did for the coaching of the club.
• 32:16
  You know, he, he kind of, he made us hip, he made us fashionable, he made us talked about and he, you know, the Eagle and, and, and.
• 32:23
  Changing the nickname obviously from the Glaziers to the, The Eagles, which was incredible.
• 32:27
  But I mean, equally both things with.
• 32:29
  The thing that links Venables and Allison, quite apart from their charisma, was that the players who played under them all had such incredible things to say about them both.
• 32:40
  You know, stuff even like I remember.
• 32:41
  Do you remember Venables?
• 32:43
  He created that little elevated little sort of almost like a bird watching place, but just above the dugout where, where he would watch games because he didn't want to watch.
• 32:53
  He said the worst place to watch a football match is on the sideline because you're at the same height, you can't.
• 32:57
  You don't get any perspective.
• 32:59
  So he had a thing built just in front of the director's box and he would go in there and on his own or with a coach and just keep an eye on things.
• 33:06
  And he could shout down to the bench, just little, you know, those little details.
• 33:10
  It was great when he was creating that team in the 80s, less so when he came back in the mid-90s.
• 33:16
  Did you go to any of the cup games, Bruce?
• 33:19
  No, I was only nine.
• 33:20
  I mean, I remember it.
• 33:21
  Yeah, I remember it, but I didn't go to any of the game.
• 33:24
  And I started going away when I was about probably 12, 13, so 79, 80.
• 33:29
  I'd.
• 33:30
  I'd be going away and right through the early 80s.
• 33:32
  Did you have some good away trips, Bruce, when you was a kid?
• 33:34
  Yeah, I mean, you, you.
• 33:36
  You'd know this, Gary.
• 33:37
  I mean, it was, you know, football hooliganism was a proper thing then.
• 33:42
  And I'm not just talking about the notorious clubs.
• 33:46
  You know, if you went to Luton or Mill, well, obviously Millwall.
• 33:49
  I'll talk about that in a minute.
• 33:50
  But, you know, I remember going to Kenilworth Road and it was so lively in there.
• 33:54
  I remember the.
• 33:55
  The infamous FA cup quarterfinal at Loftus Road in 82 when Clive Allen scored.
• 34:00
  And coming out the ground there, there was just old Bill and fan.
• 34:04
  It was just going off absolutely everywhere you look.
• 34:06
  You had to keep your wits about you in those days, you know, you really, really did.
• 34:10
  But obviously Millwall was.
• 34:12
  I remember I was working at Hackney Dogs and we drew Millwall in the cup.
• 34:16
  So it would have been.
• 34:18
  I can't remember, it was third round or fourth round.
• 34:20
  But we were.
• 34:21
  We were away to Milwau on a Saturday at 3 o'.
• 34:24
  Clock.
• 34:24
  I'd worked at Hatney Dogs in the morning.
• 34:26
  They had a morning meeting there and on the way back, parked up in New Cross, went to the old den on my own and went into the ground and we were 1 nil up.
• 34:38
  And the away end, as it as such that it was, was full of Millwall and there were palace fans celebrating and all.
• 34:46
  They're in your face straight away.
• 34:48
  And I was just thinking, crisis, absolutely terrifying.
• 34:52
  I don't know if you ever went to the old Den, but to get out of the away end, there was one little gate.
• 34:57
  Anyway, Mill equalized with about a minute to go.
• 34:59
  So I was semi gutted.
• 35:00
  But I thought, well, at least the fans aren't gonna be too bad.
• 35:03
  I turn up at the Gate to go out and there's a bayone mob of them holding onto the riding.
• 35:08
  Yeah, shaking it.
• 35:09
  Shaking it, yeah.
• 35:10
  Anyway, the old bit are trying to clear it all and to get out of their way end and to get back onto the Old Kent Road, you had to go down what was the old past, the old new
• 35:19
  cross dog track, which had been demolished and was basically just a pile of brick lobbing bricks down at us.
• 35:25
  And I'm like.
• 35:26
  I said to policeman, what are we going to do?
• 35:28
  He goes, just go like that and run.
• 35:31
  And.
• 35:31
  And that was.
• 35:32
  You had to do that for about 50 meters.
• 35:34
  Anyway, I did that.
• 35:35
  Nothing happened.
• 35:36
  There's bricks landing all around.
• 35:38
  And I just.
• 35:39
  I got onto the Old Kent Road, got back to my car.
• 35:42
  I just said, I'll never ever go to a football match where Millwall are playing.
• 35:47
  I don't know if you saw the thing I did with Stevie Lovell, but.
• 35:50
  So there was a period because Stevie Lovell and I were very close.
• 35:53
  So when he left palace and he went to Millwall, I went to a load of Millwall games.
• 35:59
  Right?
• 36:00
  On one of the Millwall games I went to was looting away.
• 36:03
  And so when you talk about crowd trouble, I had.
• 36:09
  I had a.
• 36:09
  I had two cars at the time.
• 36:11
  I had a yellow Triumph Stag and I had a.
• 36:14
  An old Mini.
• 36:16
  And the Mini I use for my everyday, you know, Bruce and this Stag I used to bring out because he was old.
• 36:22
  It was like the mini had this 20pMillwall sticker in it in the windscreen.
• 36:30
  20 pence I pay for this sticker.
• 36:33
  Drove to Luton, parked it up.
• 36:36
  I even kept the aerial up.
• 36:38
  Watch.
• 36:39
  The game as we know it was horrendous.
• 36:40
  It was.
• 36:41
  It was.
• 36:42
  It was a great game.
• 36:43
  It was a great cup tie.
• 36:44
  But it kicked off every two minutes.
• 36:47
  It was going to be, you know, it was.
• 36:49
  It was in the stands, it was around me.
• 36:50
  It was it.
• 36:51
  And I was watching from the seats.
• 36:53
  And it was.
• 36:53
  It was everywhere, right?
• 36:55
  It was.
• 36:55
  It was the closest time to wartime in.
• 36:58
  In a peacetime environment.
• 36:59
  I mean, it was rough.
• 37:02
  Bearing in mind what we saw before the match, what we're seeing now, they're outnumbering the police horribly.
• 37:15
  Dreadful scenes at Kenilworth Road.
• 37:18
  And this is what British football has got to contend with now.
• 37:23
  It happened at millwall back in 78.
• 37:26
  It happened in other places, too, and before that, and nobody seems to be able to control it.
• 37:32
  Right after the game, they said to the lads, oh, you're gonna have to stay in the players Lounge.
• 37:39
  So I was going to meet up with Stevie.
• 37:40
  So I was in the lounge.
• 37:42
  They kept us inside for like an hour and a half because it was so rough outside.
• 37:47
  When I got outside, all the cars have been turned over, all the houses, all the windows of the houses had all been caved in.
• 37:55
  And the only thing that was standing because of my sticker was my little Mini.
• 38:00
  And it was.
• 38:01
  Even the aerial was up.
• 38:03
  That was my horrendous Millwall experience.
• 38:06
  But.
• 38:07
  But I will say, I will say about Millwall fans, when they get behind the team, mate, they really get behind the team, you know, and.
• 38:15
  And.
• 38:15
  And that was at the old.
• 38:17
  Obviously that was at Kenilworth Road.
• 38:19
  But going to the old Den, you referenced it earlier.
• 38:22
  I went there and I spoke to Nico about this.
• 38:27
  I went there.
• 38:27
  When Nico made his debut.
• 38:29
  Vince scored at the far post.
• 38:30
  We won 3 nil away.
• 38:32
  Wall, playing it short for Nicholas Walker, really had gone, committed himself there.
• 38:37
  Perry on the far side, getting the header in, across the face of the goal.
• 38:48
  And I did my level best that day to avoid a kick in because the Millwall fans weren't too happy getting done 3 nil home to Crystal Palace.
• 38:57
  As you know, football was very different then.
• 38:59
  And even in that.
• 39:00
  Even in that cup run, that 76 cup run leads away, it was, oh, yeah, rough.
• 39:07
  Sunderland away, Sunderland away.
• 39:11
  I was 14 years old, mate, coming out, coming out of Sunderland away.
• 39:14
  And.
• 39:15
  And they parked all the coaches on the beach like it was a.
• 39:18
  It was a long journey from the ground to the beach.
• 39:22
  Coming out of there.
• 39:24
  We left five minutes before, 10 minutes before, to get to the coach.
• 39:27
  Like the Sunderland fans were in and amongst it, looking for it.
• 39:31
  That element, what I will say about the Sunderland fans that day, that when the.
• 39:36
  When the coaches were leaving Sunderland and driving through the streets, the real Sunderland people were waving and clapping and they were very gracious that we.
• 39:45
  Yeah, no, it's very, very nice that I.
• 39:47
  I'll never forget that.
• 39:49
  Obviously you had some fantastic trips and we went to the Goldstone.
• 39:52
  That was.
• 39:53
  That was absolute mayhem.
• 39:55
  Yeah, it's all different now.
• 39:57
  I did Goodison before it finished and a couple of seasons going, obviously we didn't win.
• 40:02
  We never do.
• 40:03
  But that was amazing because Goodison is like a kind of museum of a football ground.
• 40:08
  That was still a football ground.
• 40:09
  All the old turnstiles and everything.
• 40:12
  I absolutely love that.
• 40:13
  You know, I've enjoyed going away down the years.
• 40:16
  I still.
• 40:16
  I'd probably still do three or four away games a season if I can.
• 40:20
  Did I did Strasbourg Last year I'm gonna.
• 40:23
  Oh, well done.
• 40:24
  Cool.
• 40:24
  I'm gonna go to Salzburg this year.
• 40:25
  You know, you've got to be able to enjoy palace away.
• 40:28
  So me and my son and my mates went to Strasbourg last year and we loved that and we'd do the same again in, In Salzburg.
• 40:34
  I know you're very down about our chances, but, I mean, if you look at who's in that, it's obviously a lot stronger than Europa, the Conference League was last year.
• 40:44
  I mean, that was a weak field, wasn't it?
• 40:46
  That.
• 40:46
  That really was weak.
• 40:48
  But I think, whereas probably three or four teams could have won that, there's probably eight or nine or ten who could win this.
• 40:53
  So we'll see how we get on.
• 40:56
  I don't know about psage.
• 40:58
  I.
• 40:59
  I wish him well.
• 41:00
  I think I.
• 41:00
  I have seen some fairly big changes between how we play under him and how we did under Glasner.
• 41:07
  I think we're.
• 41:08
  We're looser.
• 41:08
  I don't think the defensive shape is anything like as rigorous.
• 41:13
  But I also think that he's.
• 41:16
  He frees him up to try and play a bit of football a bit more.
• 41:19
  At some point we are going to concede a stupid goal because, you know, we're taking a lot of risks at the back.
• 41:25
  I don't mind the fact that Glasner's gone because I think we had two fantastic years with him and, you know, he's been great.
• 41:32
  But I'll give this guy a chance.
• 41:34
  I.
• 41:35
  You're a little bit more down on him than I am, aren't you?
• 41:38
  Yeah, I'm down on him a little bit.
• 41:39
  What worries you?
• 41:40
  You.
• 41:40
  You and I both remember the, the.
• 41:44
  What's his name?
• 41:46
  The Deborah.
• 41:47
  Yeah, the Deborah experiment.
• 41:49
  I feel that when we talk about giving people time, that is something of the past time.
• 41:56
  And time gets less and less, you know, and it's very easy in the standard of the Premier League these days.
• 42:02
  So give him three months.
• 42:04
  Three months.
• 42:05
  You'd be banging trouble if it's not working out.
• 42:08
  I know that, but I will throw a counter argument to that in Iriola at Bournemouth.
• 42:12
  I mean, don't forget, he got off to us with shocking start to the extent that he virtually offered his resignation and the board said, no, we believe in you.
• 42:20
  We think you're the man.
• 42:21
  And.
• 42:21
  And he delivered there.
• 42:23
  No, you know, starting off on the road at Liverpool, I don't know how I get on.
• 42:26
  Look, I mean, I think if you.
• 42:27
  If the players still believe in the man, that's the key to it, Gary.
• 42:31
  If.
• 42:32
  If a new manager comes in, he says, right, I'm ripping up five at the back.
• 42:35
  I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.
• 42:37
  You're.
• 42:38
  You're no good.
• 42:38
  I don't like you.
• 42:39
  You're out.
• 42:40
  You're out.
• 42:41
  And all of a sudden the dressing room are like, we're not playing for this guy.
• 42:44
  Then I think that's a problem.
• 42:46
  It's not like we've got off to a disastrous start.
• 42:48
  We've got two big games coming up before the.
• 42:50
  Before the long break.
• 42:52
  Ipswich and Leeds.
• 42:54
  If we got two points against them or one or not, does that intensify the pressure?
• 42:59
  Of course it does.
• 43:00
  But you know what's going to happen if.
• 43:03
  What is going to happen?
• 43:04
  Realistically, if we were to, say, lose against Ipswich, lose against Leeds, or only get one point, what are we going to do?
• 43:11
  It's going to be Sean Dyche.
• 43:12
  It's going to be how A push.
• 43:15
  I don't think necessarily how would come.
• 43:17
  I think.
• 43:18
  I would imagine Dyche would be manager.
• 43:20
  But do we want that or do we want to give this fellow a chance and see how he goes?
• 43:24
  I don't think it was just those four results that got the other fella to sack.
• 43:31
  Four is very short.
• 43:33
  Having said that, getting done three nil by Scumthorpe in the first game at home.
• 43:39
  Let's just say I think we'll beat Ipswich, right?
• 43:44
  But just say we didn't and we.
• 43:46
  We got done at Ipswich and Lee's done us.
• 43:50
  Then to me, it's all about how the.
• 43:53
  How the players are responding to him.
• 43:55
  You know, it's like, obviously DeBoer wasn't getting a tune, and obviously Parish knew inside that this ain't going to turn around.
• 44:04
  And sometimes you have to pull the plug early.
• 44:08
  Listen, I'm all.
• 44:09
  I'm all for.
• 44:10
  He just doesn't.
• 44:12
  He doesn't inspire me much, you know, like that.
• 44:14
  I don't.
• 44:15
  I.
• 44:15
  I can't.
• 44:16
  I.
• 44:16
  I can't see him in a dressing room.
• 44:18
  It may be very unfair of me, maybe.
• 44:20
  I don't see him in a dressing room inspiring people, that's all.
• 44:25
  This team are going to take a lot of work, you know, I.
• 44:28
  I can't see Sar turning up.
• 44:30
  I don't think he's edge, right?
• 44:31
  Do you not think so?
• 44:33
  I think he's gonna play.
• 44:34
  He can't not.
• 44:35
  He can't go on permanent strike.
• 44:37
  He's, you know, he's having a sulk.
• 44:39
  But, I mean, surely we get through the International break and then he comes back and plays.
• 44:44
  I would have thought the, the boys were seeing him training on his own and, and anyway that, that's.
• 44:52
  I like Sar a lot and he's obviously been good for us.
• 44:54
  I don't think he's a 22 goal man a season.
• 44:56
  I think he had a blinding season and that's fantastic.
• 44:59
  But he's going to contribute in ways that we don't have right now where he runs from deep and gets behind and then that opens up the spaces there in the middle of the park.
• 45:09
  We need somebody like that to keep running beyond.
• 45:11
  He's understanding with Adam Wharton.
• 45:13
  You know, they, they were not quite telepathic by the end of it, but he knew how to find him.
• 45:19
  He latched on to Wharton's early passing.
• 45:21
  He knew what was going on there and yeah, he's.
• 45:24
  And he, he finishes brilliantly.
• 45:26
  He might end up being our main striker if Meteta either goes or loses his form or Strand Larsson does pretty as well.
• 45:35
  I think he's an option as a center forward.
• 45:37
  He's also a very good right wing back.
• 45:38
  He's just a brilliantly talented footballer.
• 45:41
  There's certain players that can manufacture chances at and I think his pace gets him out through a lot of problems, whereas maybe the other two don't.
• 45:49
  I mean Strand Larsen and Mateta, they take a long time to get on the turn.
• 45:55
  Right.
• 45:55
  Whereas Sars a lot more quick in those tighter areas.
• 45:58
  Which, which.
• 45:59
  Yeah, I mean, listen, I like Sar as a player, you know, I really do.
• 46:03
  I don't really care much for Mateta, but I really like Sar and I'm disappointed in the way he's gone about things.
• 46:11
  But again, he didn't probably go around about things that way.
• 46:14
  He's.
• 46:14
  He's representatives probably did and now they forced his hand a little bit.
• 46:21
  But again, we've both known players in the past that have been unhappy with the way they've been handled and they've fired their representatives.
• 46:29
  So Sarah hasn't done that.
• 46:31
  So he is couple some of the blame.
• 46:33
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 46:34
  Because he is, you know, he's dancing to their tune in a way.
• 46:37
  Don't forget when you're palace, one of the good things about being a, you know, not one of the top sides in the table is that teams tend to defend very high up against you so they will leave you
• 46:47
  some space.
• 46:48
  And of course that's why certain players, and I would say Eze suffers from this.
• 46:54
  You know, if you're playing for Arsenal, they're all defending on the Six yard line.
• 46:57
  They're not giving you that space to get the ball and go and glide past players and do your thing.
• 47:03
  And.
• 47:03
  And it's been noticeable how much Eze has had to adapt to trying to play in confined spaces.
• 47:10
  And he doesn't like it.
• 47:11
  He doesn't like getting his.
• 47:13
  Getting the ball with his back to goal.
• 47:15
  He likes getting the ball deep and running.
• 47:16
  But the trouble is, whereas in transition we might feed him and he's got two defenders to go past.
• 47:23
  No one who's playing against Arsenal is ever committing that many people forward.
• 47:27
  So he's.
• 47:27
  He's having to go past five, six, seven players.
• 47:29
  You've got to be very careful about treating X as, as a true representation of what palace fans think, because it's not.
• 47:35
  It's where palace fans go to shout and let off steam.
• 47:39
  But there is a certain disrespect towards Wolf creeping in, I think, sometimes.
• 47:43
  I mean, he's obviously, you know, a God at palace, but I think there' other people who kind of say, well, you know, he probably wasn't our greatest ever playing.
• 47:51
  And of course he was.
• 47:52
  Isn't absolutely undisputed.
• 47:54
  Do you think so, Bruce?
• 47:55
  Yeah.
• 47:56
  Yes, of course he was.
• 47:58
  I don't know.
• 47:58
  In terms of.
• 47:59
  Look, in terms of what he did five or six of those seasons we've had in the Premier League, we wouldn't have done without him.
• 48:05
  I.
• 48:05
  I will defend Wilful Zaha to the absolute end of the earth.
• 48:09
  I love the man.
• 48:10
  He's an absolute superstar legend.
• 48:13
  Just what a player, what an incredible player.
• 48:16
  I think there's a little caveat in the way that I'm agreeing with you here.
• 48:19
  Come on.
• 48:20
  What should.
• 48:20
  Dad.
• 48:20
  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 48:22
  I'm gonna agree with you in the fact that for me, as a Crystal palace player, a great Crystal palace player.
• 48:28
  Was he a great player?
• 48:30
  No, I don't think he was a great player.
• 48:32
  He.
• 48:33
  He got us up the park, he got some fouls.
• 48:36
  I was dismayed at his crossing Bruce, and I was dismayed at his finishing.
• 48:41
  Like, his numbers are dreadful.
• 48:42
  Well, you can point to the fact though, Gary, that he hasn't actually done it anywhere else, really, can't you?
• 48:46
  But I remember, I'm going to put a very fat name drop here.
• 48:50
  I was.
• 48:50
  Because obviously Sir Alex Ferguson loves his racing.
• 48:53
  I was at a racing function once.
• 48:55
  I sat next to him and his huge sports at Palace.
• 48:58
  He said, Wilfrid Zaha was my leaving presence at Manchester United.
• 49:01
  He said, I can understand why it didn't work out with David, he was still a raw kid.
• 49:06
  He said, but I'll tell you this, the amount you bought him back from United for is the biggest steal of all time.
• 49:12
  You have to remember that that was.
• 49:14
  That wasn't even 10 million it cost us to get him back.
• 49:16
  Now you are right, he hasn't even got a club now.
• 49:18
  So in that sense I kind of agree with you.
• 49:22
  But I still think that he could have done it on a bigger stage and I'm slightly sad that he didn't.
• 49:28
  What I don't understand about Zaha is that when I saw the preseason games in that era with Man United, he was sensational.
• 49:37
  He was like completely ripping them up.
• 49:40
  He was like sending dummies and down the line.
• 49:42
  And so I don't know, maybe those rumors were true.
• 49:45
  Who knows?
• 49:46
  I have no doubt his value to Crystal palace and.
• 49:50
  And in keeping us up.
• 49:51
  Is he our best ever player?
• 49:53
  You've got to say now that's Michael Elise, isn't it?
• 49:56
  Bruce, isn't this funny?
• 49:57
  Like if we'd have had this conversation three, four, five years ago, be very different, right?
• 50:03
  Because now we've got at least say in the mix.
• 50:06
  We've got Eze in the mix, we've got Guy Gay in the mix, right?
• 50:11
  We've got some real, like if we'd have had, like I said five years ago, Zara Kabai Kabaya could play for sure.
• 50:23
  And then you're going to go back, you're going to go to Kenny because Kenny Sanson could play.
• 50:29
  About probably 10, 12 years ago.
• 50:32
  I used to do bits and pieces in the program and I used to have a little.
• 50:35
  They used to have various palace supporting journalists, myself, Dom Fifield, you know the guys, Neil Ashton.
• 50:40
  One week I did my best ever Palace 11 and I think if I redid that now, Sanson might be the only player probably still in it.
• 50:49
  Could you do it now?
• 50:50
  Bruce?
• 50:50
  Quickly run it off.
• 50:51
  Off the top of my head.
• 50:52
  Nigel Martin in goal, obviously Mark Gay since I mean Lacroix is put.
• 50:57
  Is Jim Cannon still there from days of old.
• 51:00
  Sansom's going to be a left back.
• 51:02
  Your right back is going to be probably Munoz.
• 51:05
  And in midfield you can't not have Wharton.
• 51:07
  You have right up front.
• 51:08
  You probably do.
• 51:09
  The one kind of wild card I had in there was Matt Janssen.
• 51:12
  I mean if you've got three of Eze Zahar and Alise behind Ian Wright, the two holding midfielders of Wharton and pick from Andy Gray or Kabai or Thomas or, you know, even Di might end up Working his way
• 51:30
  in there.
• 51:30
  What I'm saying is we are.
• 51:33
  We are ap.
• 51:34
  We're the best Crystal palace we've ever been.
• 51:36
  I will say it's about Kamada.
• 51:38
  I think a lot of people in football, not just in football, but in life, in politics, in everything, they're very afraid to admit they were wrong.
• 51:46
  I don't necessarily think I was wrong about Kamada.
• 51:49
  I thought he was awful for.
• 51:52
  Maybe not awful, but somewhere between awful and moderate for the first three quarters of his first season.
• 51:58
  But Kamala now is a beautiful player.
• 52:00
  He's a fantastic player, and I think the.
• 52:02
  Him and Wharton are a fantastic combination.
• 52:05
  And I'm really pleased that he's flourished and done so well and especially pleased that he stayed.
• 52:12
  We all assumed I was off ski last season.
• 52:14
  So to keep Wharton, to keep Kamada, to keep Mateta, to keep SA for the time being, to keep Henderson, yes, we've lost Lacroix.
• 52:23
  Yes, we've lost Gay.
• 52:24
  Yes, we've lost Munoz.
• 52:25
  That's going to happen, isn't it?
• 52:27
  We've still got a brilliant, brilliant team.
• 52:30
  And I think we've got squad depth now, actually leaving good, expensive footballers off the bench.
• 52:37
  So that's really encouraging.
• 52:39
  I think the one difference between palace this season and last is the defense clearly isn't what it was.
• 52:45
  That it clearly isn't.
• 52:47
  We're not gonna.
• 52:49
  We're not gonna be as solid as we were with that.
• 52:52
  Munoz and Mitchell, wing backs, and then Richards, Lacroix and Gay.
• 52:57
  We're not going to be that solid ever again, but we might be all right.
• 53:01
  But apart from that, I think we've got same firepower, same attacking weaponry, and most of all, really deep squad.
• 53:09
  So I'm.
• 53:09
  I'm really optimistic.
• 53:12
  You've made some really great points there, Bruce.
• 53:13
  I mean, for me, it all starts with our defense.
• 53:17
  I'm.
• 53:18
  I'm very concerned about our defenders.
• 53:20
  Losing Riyadh was a massive blow, and I felt so sorry for the lad.
• 53:23
  I really did.
• 53:24
  I think when you look at what he's been through, to suffer that ACL on the first day of the new season is so heartbreaking for the lad, so I'm gutted for him, but I think we'll also miss him.
• 53:36
  Where do you have us finishing in the league?
• 53:41
  The lower half.
• 53:41
  And that's me being.
• 53:42
  That's me being kind.
• 53:43
  I just.
• 53:45
  I don't know the upper half of the lower half would do.
• 53:47
  I worry, Bruce.
• 53:48
  I worry about our defense, you know, up top and in midfield.
• 53:52
  I think we're going to Be fine, you know, but for me it all starts with the defense and fans get a little bit carried away about what they want and what they don't want and where they think we
• 54:02
  should be.
• 54:02
  And would you be happy in five years time if we didn't win another trophy but we were just in the Premier League?
• 54:12
  Yeah, delighted, absolutely, yeah.
• 54:15
  No question.
• 54:15
  I mean that's, that's realistically the best we can hope for.
• 54:18
  You know, there's only two trove domestic trophies you can win any season and you don't get into Europe that often.
• 54:24
  So really it's just all about survival.
• 54:26
  And look, Gary, look at what all these other clubs are spending now.
• 54:30
  I mean look at Tonali.
• 54:31
  100 million, Elliot Anderson, 120 million.
• 54:34
  Fernandez 125 million.
• 54:37
  I mean, come on, he's just a functional central midfielder.
• 54:43
  I mean he's just nothing like worth that.
• 54:45
  So how are you going to compete with, with that kind of spending?
• 54:48
  It's just not possible.
• 54:49
  What you do have to do is recruit well.
• 54:52
  We've seen that and we all know that and we all know the success we had with, with Doogie and the brilliant job he did by exploiting that opportunity to get the best players in from the championship and also
• 55:05
  bring in some good overseas players.
• 55:07
  As long as you've got your recruitment right then, and you're not penny pinching too much and you do have to make sure that you, you keep a strong enough squad then hopefully we're in a position where we should
• 55:20
  be able to hang around in the Premier League for another five years, get the new stand built up, the capacity to whatever it is, 35, 36 000, get me out of the Arthur Weight and somewhere more comfortable and,
• 55:32
  and hopefully we'll still be good to go more years.
• 55:36
  But look, I mean it's been, it's been such a big part of my life being a Palace fan.
• 55:41
  A huge part of my life and not always, you know, happy.
• 55:46
  There's been some anguish, there's been some tears, there's been some bad results, there's been some disappointments, there's been some rough times, but I wouldn't have been without it.
• 55:57
  I've loved being a Palace fan.
• 55:59
  It's been a privilege to support Palestine all these years and I hope that, you know, we'll have plenty more good moments to come, you know, for however long I.
• 56:08
  And they are around.
• 56:10
  So yeah, it's been lovely to have a chat with you Gary.
• 56:12
  Thank you very much for having me on.
• 56:13
  But you know, up the Palace, I Think people do need to try and stay positive, be realistic, remember who we are.
• 56:19
  We're a little club from South London who've been punching above our weight for the last 13 years and enjoyed phenomenal success.
• 56:27
  It's not gonna, it's not gonna be sustained in the next five, six, seven years.
• 56:32
  The chances are we are going to go down.
• 56:34
  We have to accept that.
• 56:36
  Hopefully we won't, but, you know, it'll, there'll always be a Palace, hopefully.
• 56:40
  And, and I'm very grateful for that.
• 56:43
  Real pleasure having you on, Bruce.
• 56:46
  I, I, I personally feel that the next six months actually, for me are going to define what happens in the next five years.
• 56:55
  You know, if he finds his footing, Sarge, and, and we start to get a tune out the team again, then he's going to build a platform, right, and he's going to bed in just like Lesnar bedded in and
• 57:07
  we'll stick around again.
• 57:08
  But I think that's our remit.
• 57:10
  Our remit is, is, you know, just to stay in the Premier League.
• 57:13
  If we stay in the Premier League, we're great.
• 57:15
  It gets a lot of Parish, right, Particularly on ex.
• 57:18
  Done a phenomenal job for the club.
• 57:21
  Phenomenal job for the club.
• 57:22
  You know, when I think about the chairman we've had in the past, Parish is light years ahead of anybody else.
• 57:28
  I think he's a bit like Bill Kenright Everton, you know, like, he's a proper, proper fan, has always supported the club.
• 57:34
  I know it'll probably stand to this.
• 57:36
  Unbearable for him.
• 57:37
  All right, well, hopefully they'll find him a role, even if it's not chairman.
• 57:42
  He might, you know, end up being on the board or, or in a more sort of honorary role.
• 57:46
  But you're right, it would be good if, you know, his wisdom is always there for, because he, you know, it's, it stood us in good stead for.
• 57:53
  A lot of years and it certainly has me.
• 57:55
  Just before we go, Bruce, your favorite ever palace game, mate.
• 58:00
  As a fan, I'm an FA cup final, no question about it.
• 58:03
  I mean, I mean, it happened, it actually happened at quite a slightly difficult time in my life because I got diagnosed with prostate cancer two weeks before the final.
• 58:13
  Now I'm absolutely fine.
• 58:14
  I've had my treatment and I'm very lucky.
• 58:16
  They got it nice and early, so I'm all good, but it was quite a big deal at the time.
• 58:20
  And I remember thinking, blimey, I was, I was always thinking, we'll win, win the FA cup in my lifetime.
• 58:28
  And I'm thinking, well, Here we are in the final.
• 58:30
  This might be the last chance, you know, and when we.
• 58:33
  We were.
• 58:33
  I remember, traveling up on the Tube to Wembley and we were in the carriage and there's plenty of palace, and then there's a lot of man sitting there, and I was talking to these two City fans and I
• 58:44
  said, this is just another day out for you.
• 58:47
  This is.
• 58:47
  This is just.
• 58:48
  This doesn't barely mean anything to you, does it?
• 58:50
  And they were going, well, it's nice to come down.
• 58:52
  I said, you don't understand, like, if we win this, this is the greatest day in our lives.
• 58:58
  But I was there in 2016 when we just about lost.
• 59:02
  I was there in 1990 when we just about lost.
• 59:05
  So to get it done there was just brilliant.
• 59:08
  Ah, that's great.
• 59:09
  That's a great story.
• 59:10
  You wasn't.
• 59:10
  You didn't go to that semi final, Southampton 76.
• 59:13
  No, no, no.
• 59:14
  He's too little, mate.
• 59:16
  Yeah, yeah.
• 59:17
  Bruce, mate, it's been a pleasure to have you on.
• 59:20
  Thank you very much for having me on.
• 59:21
  Gary, you're such a.
• 59:23
  You're such a.
• 59:24
  A knowledgeable and loyal palace fan, and also, you've got some really great opinions, so it's great to have you on, mate.
• 59:31
  And I'll see you soon, Bruce.
• 59:33
  Thank.
• 59:40
  You, sam.