Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: OG Guest #5 Kebba Tolbert-Harvard University

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BONUS: OG Guest #5 Kebba Tolbert-Harvard University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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I hope you're having as much fun as we are as we are going down
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the journey of our first ten episodes.
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Way back in 2020, if you've missed any of the last four
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Thursdays, we had OG number 123 and four.
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And today we've got OG #5 the real OG ABBA Tolbert from
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Harvard University. You know, things were different
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for the podcast back then. Back then, I sat in like a four
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year in the Harvard University indoor facility, kind of in the
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lobby almost, if you will, and sat down and talked with Keba
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and Keba's story. So, so fascinating, so, so
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important. We actually didn't get to go
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through it all. So we actually had to stop and
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we did a Part 2 later on. Go search your podcast app for
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that. But I'm just so grateful for
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Keba's trust, sitting down with us in the lobby to learn about
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his amazing journey in this great profession.
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So thank you, OG. Kayba Tolbert, this is OG #5
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back in 2020. Hey gang, welcome to the Guild
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athletics Connections podcast where we bring you the stories
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of track and field coaches from around the world.
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I am your host, Mike Cunningham, and it is my honor and privilege
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to bring you the stories of these men and women this week.
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I just can't say enough about this interview.
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I had the wonderful Keba Tolbert from Harvard University.
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I've known Keba for a long time and I learned a ton in this
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interview about his growing up in the Bronx and his family.
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Just support that he had with grandparents, grandma and uncles
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and mom and just what a wonderful way to grow up.
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And just to hear his story and how the mentors in his life from
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Dan Paths and Boo Schexnaters and Carla Coffees and just
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everything he's done so much in his career up until this point.
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And the wonderful thing is, is how he has reached the point
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where he is now giving back to the track and field community.
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He is now a mentor to so many coaches from around.
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We spent a long time together, which I'm so appreciative of his
2:07
time and attention and energy during this interview.
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And I, I guarantee you we will do a Part 2.
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We we didn't even get close to learning more about this
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fascinating young man and what he does in the sport of track
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and field. So please give it up and help me
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welcome the great and powerful Keba Tolbert.
2:34
So Keba, we were talking about really the influencers that
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you've had in your life, you, you've coached how, how long
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have you coached now? Really.
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Since 88, but officially since 94.
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Oh, OK. Well, we'll explore that then.
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OK, officially since 94, so a long time, 20 plus going on 30
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years, you look great for you must have started at 10 years
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old. OK.
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But what's really interesting about you and you and I have
3:01
known each other for quite a long time.
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I think we met through the coaching education.
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In Colorado Springs. Not even go to Colorado Springs.
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Boise was my first one. Yeah.
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So maybe there jumps with Boo, which I still say is the number
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one thing I ever did for my career in life, to be real
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honest with you. And and so Boo fits nicely into
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this. You you're now you're one of
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these and you're going to deny this because I know you're
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you're humility Boo type people like you teach a lot of people,
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but you have been taught by a lot of people.
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Maybe explain the role of some of the mentors you've had and
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what they meant to you. Yeah, I've had, I've been very,
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very fortunate to have some good people that were willing to take
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time and energy and invest in me as a coach, you know, as a
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person. But as in the coaching side
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especially, it's been a few people.
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One is a guy named Robert Taylor.
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He's from the Bronx, from Corp City.
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He lives in Georgia now. But his daughter was Monifa
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Taylor, but she is Monifa Taylor and she, she was a year older
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than me. He ran a track club called the
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Zodiacs Track Club and it was all girls.
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So did you grow up? I grew up in the Bronx, yeah.
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I was in Rochester and we moved to the Bronx and I was a.
4:12
Little bit older. But he had a club called the
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Zodiacs Track Club. It was all girls.
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And so my brother and I couldn't join.
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But he's I used to sit and and Monifa was the top hurdler in
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the country age group and then one of the top high schoolers.
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And she went to Florida, won the NCA title, got fourth in the big
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trial. I was like.
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A lot of things it. Was a good friend of mine but I
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was able to watch them from from close up and I always wanted to
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be in their club and I couldn't. My brother and I couldn't but I
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used to ask him for advice. I'd read articles.
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I'd say well how can we do in this workout?
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I used to sit and watch the workouts after our school
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practice. But was that unique to have a
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all Girls Club back? Then not in New York.
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I mean probably a third of the clubs were all girls, so maybe
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some of them were all boys and most of them were Coed, but
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there were a lot of all girls clubs back.
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Then that is one culture, you know, you know me well enough.
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I travel around the country, you know, 365 days a year.
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But the New York and Burroughs and suburbs, I know nothing.
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I've never been there. I didn't know you were from.
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I was going to say, I don't even know anybody from there.
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Maybe I know a lot of people and just don't realize that.
5:17
It just strikes me odd back in that time that it would be an
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all female. Yeah, there were lots of them.
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Interesting. So he I used to, so I used to
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watch him and then I started writing for a school newspaper
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and the local newspaper. And so I read articles about the
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club and about her. And so I got to interview her
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and interview him and get to know them even more.
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And then he started to trust me and he knew that I was in the
5:39
train. So he'd give me articles to read
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and let me come and watch videos of that stuff like Speed
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Dynamics. When it first first came on late
5:45
80s, I'd sit and watch and ask questions.
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And that's how I really got. So because I I couldn't join the
5:53
club and the club that we joined was about an hour and 20 minutes
5:58
on the subway. We didn't go every day.
6:00
So I'd coach my brother. That's how I started coaching in
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88. And we come out the house.
6:05
Sometimes my mom would let us go.
6:06
Sometimes we sneak out at night and go to the track and I
6:08
started coaching. He was a long jumper in high
6:12
school. I was in high school.
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He was in, he was in, he's four years younger than me.
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So this is like my junior going into my junior year.
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So he was like, you know, 1314, he was in youth age group.
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And were you doing track? I was doing track as well.
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What events? 102 hundred 41144400 So I
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started coaching him and then kind of just went from there.
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Yeah, I went to college. He was and my brother made a
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couple of youth games teams in Junior Olympics, like the long
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jumping 200 he's legit and stuff like that.
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So when I got to college, there was a long jumper who was a
6:42
junior when I was a freshman and he was good.
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He was like a conference champion and my coach knew I was
6:51
in the coaching even as a freshman.
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So the two things happened which are both very strange.
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Coach Wescott. So that was Co Mr. Taylor and I
7:00
got started with that. But Coach Westcott, my college
7:02
coach at Colby, he gave me the key to his office like like the
7:07
first month of my freshman year. And like, so for four years I
7:10
could go in and watch videos and read books and read articles and
7:14
look through workouts. And there was a long and my
7:17
coach was also the head cross country coach.
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And so we kind of he'd give us stuff to do in the fall.
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He'd see some of it, but most of it was on her own.
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And when I got to the guy was like, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm a
7:27
pretty good long jumper, but I follow a lie.
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And I and Coach Wescott can't always watch me because he's
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busy with this group or that group not, but not in any kind
7:34
of disrespect. We're just like small.
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So me being young and arrogant and stupid said, oh, well, let
7:41
me ask. I'll ask Coach Wescott if I can
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work with you. I coached my brother in the long
7:44
jumper. He was pretty good.
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And I worked with some of our jumpers in high school.
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And you were an athlete on the team.
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Yeah, and he said yes. So I'd work with him maybe once
7:54
a week on specific long jump stuff.
7:56
And we worked on having check marks that I got from Tom to Les
8:00
articles. And I had the the Omni book by
8:04
by Doherty. So I was going through those
8:06
things and applying it to my brother and then applying it to
8:08
Tom composer who was a jumper. And so that's how I started
8:11
coaching then in addition to having the key, because my head
8:16
coach at Kobe, he was their faculty because they taught.
8:18
So anytime something new came out, you know, tracking for news
8:21
would have, you know, new books and new videos, he could order
8:23
it to the library for me because you could do that as faculty.
8:26
So I'd get new stuff and I'd go to the library and watch it and
8:28
read it. Like Bumper came out with a book
8:30
that I wanted. I was like 60 bucks.
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I didn't have 60 bucks. He would order it and then read
8:34
the library 2 weeks later and I could go read it.
8:37
And so that that happened and we had a good we had, I had a good
8:41
coach, individual Sprint coach, Coach Brown, he was a football
8:46
coach in the fall. That's why he wasn't with you.
8:48
In the. Fall and then he he had ran up
8:53
Brown and he was a school record holder.
8:55
His wife worked in admissions. They got a job at Oberlin after
8:59
my sophomore year. So he left and we got a new guy
9:02
from who didn't have a lot of experience.
9:04
And so I started writing my own training cycles and I would run
9:09
it by my head coach, talk to the event coach and they would make
9:12
small tweaks. But basically for my junior and
9:14
senior year, I wrote my own training and I'd write some of
9:16
the training for some of the group.
9:18
I'm not saying I did it all right.
9:19
I'm like, that's how I got started.
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And so I wasn't the official coach.
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I didn't write everyone's workouts, but I wrote most of my
9:25
workouts and I I write a cycle. I sit and talk with the coach.
9:29
He'd make some adjustments and that's what I would do.
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What do you think it is about you, Cuba, that that someone
9:37
would trust you after a month? Not a you know, you hear
9:41
sometimes you hear similar stories about a senior or you
9:46
know, one of your team teammates here.
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Brenner got injured after a sophomore year and started kind
9:52
of going to you hear about that I've never heard of.
9:56
Yeah, I mean first month. Freshman coming in and having
10:01
access. Like, yeah, I think he saw that
10:03
I was into it and I was serious about it.
10:06
And I think that was just as where being really encouraging.
10:09
And I would sit in his office and say, hey coach, I read this,
10:12
can you explain that? Or this is biomechanical
10:14
concept, I don't understand it, can you explain it to me?
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And he would say it and he's very patient and so.
10:18
What was your major? I was a philosophy major.
10:21
Yeah, I was philosophy. So really when I was finishing
10:24
up, no, I really was trying to decide whether I'm going to go
10:27
and get a PhD in philosophy and teach or going to coaching.
10:30
And the main reason I ended up picking coaching was because it
10:32
was a two year program versus 7 years for a PhD.
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And I was like, I can't be broke for seven years.
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But to this day, I still feel like I'm a philosopher coach,
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you know, and I read a lot of philosophy.
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I do. I feel like a philosophy is kind
10:45
of way of living to me. And so I kind of have the best
10:49
of both worlds in that regard. So you got an undergrad in
10:51
philosophy, You graduate from Colby?
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Then I went to Smith Smith College.
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Which is in. Northampton, Mass.
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Northampton undergraduate is all women, the grad schools are
11:01
slightly. Coed in there and I thought it.
11:02
Was a women's school, the grad schools are slightly Coed.
11:04
So we had 16 people in our exercise and Sports Studies
11:07
program. They were two men.
11:09
And so I did that for two years under Carla Coffee and I got
11:12
there. That's right.
11:14
I coached the women's sprints, the women's hurdles, the
11:17
horizontal jumps there in the real days.
11:20
And so again, another situation where stepped in therefore by
11:25
one was returning. They were finished second in the
11:28
country the year before and she turned it over to me.
11:31
So and I was, I was like, you know, Seagrave this and Seagrave
11:35
that and taking stuff for Tony Wells.
11:36
And but like because we Smith is it's a part of a 5 college
11:40
system with UMass and Hampshire and Holyoke and Smith had this
11:45
really cool science library where they had like bio
11:47
mechanics reports and sections like that.
11:50
Between that and I'll go over to UMass, you take the bus over the
11:53
shuttle. And they had all the old NCS as
11:57
and so back in those days, back in like the 80s and 90s, they'd
11:59
have like round tables with Dan Path and Lauren Seagrave and
12:02
Remy Koscemny and people like that and Don Chu.
12:05
And so they were, I could because that I could take them,
12:09
take them out. I could copy them and then take
12:11
them back. And the library at Smith had all
12:14
of the old Soviet sports reviews.
12:16
So I could take those out, take them out and copy them as well.
12:19
And so I had all those and that's that I would read and I
12:22
will go to that and I will go to seminars.
12:24
And that's how I got started. I'm surprised this doesn't
12:29
surprise me. You're always have been in my
12:32
mind, a very academic, cerebral type of coach, less relying on
12:37
the rah rah yelling and more on the hey, here's the cues and
12:41
here's how to improve on the next attempt or the next race.
12:45
So it does surprise me that you weren't they bio mechanics major
12:48
and also got a a masters and and a PhD.
12:51
I would would not have been shocked if you had told me that
12:52
you started that. Where did that?
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I'm going to call it love of of learning.
12:59
Where'd they come from? Were you parents, teachers or?
13:02
My it probably came from my mom, my grandmother and my uncles.
13:09
So it's, it's funny, like in my family, I'll tell you two
13:12
things. One is my grandmother, passed a
13:15
few years ago. But my grandmother, my uncle
13:17
Frank and my mother, they all have at least two.
13:19
They have two masters degrees. I only have one.
13:21
So I'm kind of like the black sheep of the family.
13:23
Yeah, right. You're the less educated,
13:25
formally educated. Certain.
13:27
Holy. Cow and my grandma.
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So in 8th grade I went to school in Manhattan.
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I used to go from the Bronx to Manhattan.
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Catch a train every day. I went to junior high school, my
13:42
mother had gone to because they had a program to send kids to
13:45
boarding school. And my mother had gone to know
13:47
from my Herman, my uncle had gone to Berkshire and it was
13:49
send my early school. Yeah.
13:51
And so I went and then I got into Andover to Phillips
13:55
Academy, which is nearby. Oh yeah, I've heard.
13:57
And so that's where I went really, really good boarding
14:00
school. Very fortunate.
14:01
Like I've heard of that. Like it's kind of, it's super
14:03
elite. Yeah, right.
14:04
And. You got into that?
14:06
I got into that school. That's where you went.
14:07
That's where I went. That's where I started high
14:08
school. And so 8th grade, you know, two
14:11
months before graduation, maybe three months, you know, the
14:14
forecast come out and I'd already gotten in.
14:16
I was excited and I was on the math going to like Manhattan
14:18
Borough math team. I was like on honor roll for
14:21
this. You know, I was into that kind
14:22
of stuff. My grandma forecast and it was
14:24
pretty good. I was like #3 in my school and
14:26
whatever, whatever, because oh, this is pretty good.
14:29
Got a couple BS, you know, is that the best you can do?
14:32
Like, yeah, I'm doing pretty good.
14:33
Grandma, I'm feeling, I'm feeling myself.
14:34
I got like the top boarding school in the country.
14:36
And she's like, well, my grandmother had had was running
14:41
a daycare center in Spanish Harlem that she's been running
14:44
for 20 years. I used to go there when I was
14:45
little. She had an Audi master's degree.
14:48
She's working on her second. She's going on weekends from New
14:50
York to Maryland down to Bowie State University on weekends to
14:53
take classes. And she's a four point O And she
14:55
goes, well, I have a four point O and I'm doing this.
14:57
So if I can do it, you can do it too, right?
14:59
And it's like, yes, grandma, you know, there's no like, it wasn't
15:02
a question. It was just like, yes, so that
15:04
that's the kind of person she was an influence she had on me.
15:07
I'll tell you two other quick stories.
15:08
When I was younger, I thought I wanted to be a psychologist.
15:10
Maybe when I was 10 or 11, I don't know.
15:11
I just was interested. She would just like she just got
15:14
me subscription to Psychology Today.
15:16
When she lived in New York, we lived.
15:17
This is when we lived in Rochester and I didn't even, I
15:21
probably couldn't understand the articles, but it was just
15:23
anything involving education she was going to support.
15:27
If you were doing well in school, you could almost ask for
15:30
anything of the reason like I got a military or she was like,
15:33
if you're doing well in school, she was behind you 300%.
15:36
Because for her, you know, growing up where she came from,
15:38
she came really poor, you know, African American woman from the
15:41
South. Like education is the way to the
15:44
future. She grew up there and.
15:46
She grew up and then moved, moved up to New York when she
15:49
when she got married and stuff. But so that's that.
15:51
That was her key out. Of yeah and for our family.
15:54
And for the family. Right.
15:55
And so if you're doing well in school.
15:57
You were good. My first year at Smith, I, I had
16:02
gone from Kobe, where I was the captain of the track team, where
16:05
I was the president of the Black and Hispanic student
16:06
organization and I was a student government cultural chair my
16:09
senior year. And so, you know, Kobe at that
16:12
time, I had 1700 students. There were 32 black students.
16:15
There were three black males in my graduating class.
16:16
So, you know, yeah, so I mean, everyone knew I was just because
16:21
there's not that many of us, you know, like I'm, you know, so
16:23
we've got to go from that to Smith, where the undergraduates
16:27
are all female. I'm only one of two males in my
16:32
cohort of the exercise and Sports Studies program.
16:34
I'm in Northampton. I'm a grad student and I'm broke
16:37
and I'm studying the science stuff that I had no background
16:40
in, you know, like I hadn't taken bio mechanics, hadn't
16:43
taken Physiology, had never done motor Learning That stuff was
16:45
really hard for me. I didn't enjoy it at first.
16:48
So at the end of my first year and I and I was also heartbroken
16:51
with this girl I dated and that didn't work out in college.
16:54
So end of my first year, I was like, this is for the birds.
16:57
I'm going to drop out. And so I make up my mind.
17:00
I'm like, yeah, I've had it. And the coaching was going fine,
17:03
but I was, I was just not happy. So I get up one morning in the
17:06
summer and I'm going to go to the registrar office, the Dean's
17:08
office, let them know and I'm going to, I'm going to withdraw.
17:11
I get about 100 feet from my door, maybe 200 feet.
17:14
I'm like, well, if I do that, I've got to call my grandmother.
17:17
I. Was gonna say what grandma's?
17:19
Grad school. So that's probably not going to
17:21
go over. Well, I turned around, walked
17:23
back to my apartment. So I got to figure this out.
17:25
And that was that, Like, so. And then the next year, I got to
17:28
walk over. Yeah.
17:28
I was just like, she's not going to have voice.
17:30
Yeah. So next year.
17:32
For. Her I got AI, got a teaching.
17:35
They offered me a teaching job. So I had a little more money.
17:37
It wasn't a lot. It was $1000 a semester, but
17:39
that's a lot back then. And I started dating someone and
17:43
so just everything got a little better and it was perfectly
17:45
fine. And she didn't know that till
17:46
like years. I told her years later I was
17:48
like, I was going to drop out and I was walking down the
17:49
street and I was like, I have to call you and tell you.
17:52
I was like, yeah, I probably can't do that.
17:53
So figure it out. What'd she say when you told?
17:55
Her, She laughed. She said.
17:56
I'm glad you stayed. So now that is true influence
18:00
right there. But her and my mother.
18:03
My mother has 2 masters degrees. She's an ancient near Eastern
18:08
studies scholar, Ancient Greece, Ancient near Eastern.
18:11
So she has a she's a minister. My other uncle is a minister.
18:15
He has 2 masters degrees from Columbia.
18:18
He was a Dean of a college at house university.
18:20
I used to go out in the summers and spend time with him.
18:22
So and my other uncle who doesn't have a college degree is
18:25
like if I would get in trouble, like if you got in trouble at
18:28
school in my house, like teacher calls said, hey, Cable was
18:30
talking a lot in class. So you went to parent teacher
18:32
night and say Cable no more. Of course, Cable's doing really
18:35
well. We think he could do even
18:36
better. He just says you're not trying
18:38
hard enough. He just says you're not putting
18:39
my mom. I've got a man.
18:41
It was like it was there was no escape and and see this building
18:45
right now, this is where my my apartment was right there about
18:48
that far is where my uncle's apartment was.
18:50
Across the river was where my other uncle's apartment was and
18:53
maybe where the track is where I had another uncle.
18:55
So. People can't see you are
18:57
pointing literally. At 5-10 minute walks.
19:01
And so if I if a teacher said cable's talking too much in
19:04
class or cable was late, OK, it was, you know, you get the
19:07
lecture from a mother and she would yell.
19:08
Then I get phone call from my grandmother Kay, but can you
19:11
come over? And it's not like you can say
19:12
no. So I go over it and maybe, you
19:15
know, education is important. You got to do a little better,
19:18
OK, next day, my uncle Connor brother come over, come over.
19:23
And there's this there's this program called Eyes on the
19:25
prize. It's a civil rights program
19:26
about what black people went through to get to where we are
19:29
now. Not that everything's perfect,
19:31
but we've made lots of progress. You know, we can go to school,
19:33
we can vote, we can so about the struggles that they went through
19:36
for that. And he would sit me down and he
19:39
put on some version of eyes on the prize.
19:41
He might go in the backroom and and clean up and make a phone
19:43
call. But it's a it's a like a 15 hour
19:46
program. He would just pick some segment.
19:48
I might have to I'd sit and watch an hour and go.
19:50
He would come back. I said, now you see why you need
19:51
to be more more serious about your school or you see the
19:54
sacrifices people made so that you can have these
19:56
opportunities. And there wasn't much you could
19:58
say. He's like, are you going to do
19:59
better? Yes, uncle.
20:00
Right. What pushback are you giving for
20:01
that? Then you get a call the next day
20:04
from Uncle Frank. Brother, I need you to come
20:06
over. How come you're not trying hard
20:08
in school, Uncle Frank? I am.
20:10
But the teachers are saying you're not.
20:11
You're not doing your best, Uncle Frank.
20:13
I'm trying. Well, I think you can do better.
20:14
You got to put forth more effort.
20:15
Like you know, we can do better than this.
20:17
I expect more from you. Yes, Uncle Frank and my Uncle
20:19
Frank on his wall, pictures of Malcolm X, pictures of Frederick
20:23
Douglass, Fannie Hayman, Harriet Tubman, all those kind of things
20:26
around his house. Black culture, black history,
20:28
black love. And that was the conversation.
20:32
It was, it was a one way conversation with the yes, I
20:34
understand, I'll be better. So that's where I got it from.
20:37
Wow. What's the support you had
20:39
there? I mean, you would have had to
20:42
have tried to fail, you know what I'm saying?
20:44
I mean, they were going to be there to make sure that if you
20:46
were going to fail, it wasn't going to be because they weren't
20:49
going to be. They're electing their duty to
20:51
to lead you and be responsible. So from there, boarding school,
20:55
Andover, yeah, I'm pretty fast. Like I have the freshman record
20:59
in the 50 yard there. That tells you how old you are
21:02
by. The way I know. 50 yard.
21:04
And then my second year I was the fastest person in the league
21:09
and I only was only one like 23, two and like 11 and two or
21:13
something like that. But I got in trouble with my
21:15
first year. I got in trouble to get my
21:17
second year. So then I had I withdraw, I had
21:18
to leave. So I'll go back to New York.
21:20
And my mom is hot like like for two years straight at him if I
21:27
look the wrong way. See, that's your problem.
21:29
That's why I got kicked out of. That's your problem?
21:32
Yeah, like. If my socks are on the floor on
21:35
the uncle to the point of where this is, how bad it was at
21:39
graduation, graduation night again at Truman High School.
21:42
I end up writing for the paper editor, you know, on the track
21:45
team doing all these things, you know, getting to Kobe, got
21:48
recruited by Princeton, you know, got recruited by Brown,
21:51
good schools. You know, I figured shit out.
21:54
I figured things out. But my mom said something to me
21:57
in the car after graduation on the way to dinner.
22:00
And I must have said something back and she didn't like it.
22:02
And she was like, see, that's your problem.
22:03
And my uncle, who my uncle is a person where you're going to
22:06
respect your parents like there's no, you're going to
22:09
respect your parents. He stepped in, He's in the car.
22:12
He goes, he goes, Regina, the boy graduated, he's going to
22:15
college. You might want to let that go.
22:17
I was like, wow, I'm OK. I've been freed.
22:22
My mom was out of love, you know what I mean?
22:23
Was just like, that's how she took it, you know, 'cause, you
22:26
know, I caused some family embarrassment and, and some
22:28
family pain. But at Truman, I go to, I get
22:34
there in the summer of 88 and they have Empire State games,
22:38
like Mass has base State Games. And I'm like, oh, OK, I'm fast.
22:40
You know, I'm, I was the fastest in the New England public
22:42
school. I'm going to go make the team,
22:44
man, so. It did not go as planned.
22:49
I go to the prelims, I run 100. I'm like I get waxed.
22:52
People are running like 10 eights and 10 sevens and 10
22:55
sixes in the prelims. I've never seen nothing like
22:57
that. I run a 200.
22:58
People run a 2222 flat and 21 sixes and stuff like that.
23:02
I'm like, Oh my goodness, our team at Truman had won the state
23:06
title and the four I won the year before.
23:08
But I've never seen this kind of running before.
23:12
Man, It was like a eye opener. I was going to say, so how did
23:15
you take that? Because one type of person would
23:17
see that and be like, oh, I, I'm not a sprinter and quit.
23:20
Another person would take it and say, oh, I need to get better.
23:23
I got better and I made AI made a four by one and a four by
23:26
four. A four by one had the fastest
23:30
time in the state up until the city.
23:33
So the way New York State did the state championships back
23:36
then is the top relay from each region made it to state meet.
23:40
In New York, we're the top time. But at the city championship,
23:43
this boys and girls school beat us.
23:45
We ran 41, six and got beat. So we couldn't go to the state
23:49
and we're the second best time in the state.
23:52
And you know, next year we ran like three, 18317.
23:56
We won the top four teams in the state.
23:57
Like New York City had like five of the top six teams and
24:00
couldn't go. New Rochelle, which was right
24:01
next door, they went and got second in Mount Vernon and
24:05
they're right next door to me to the Bronx.
24:07
They could be second and third in the state meet.
24:08
They weren't and no disrespect to them, they weren't the top
24:11
five in the state, you know, and so it, it broke our heart.
24:14
We were like, man, because we, we had gone to Penn Relays and
24:16
made the second, the, the consolation final and got a
24:19
medal and we had won the lounge games and things like that.
24:22
And boys and girls, they had this guy named Jimmy Stafford
24:24
was like a 20.921 flat guy back then.
24:27
And he, he kicked our butt on the relay and we just couldn't,
24:29
we had a great anchor. He was a 10210 three guy.
24:31
We just couldn't catch up, you know?
24:33
But that was my introduction to real track.
24:36
And it said, I mean, not that it wasn't, but like, like, oh, this
24:39
is fast. Kind of got you out of the
24:40
bubble that you were in. And it's like, oh, there's,
24:42
there's better people. Out there.
24:44
So I ended up running like 22, four and like 10-9 and like ran
24:47
49 in the relay as in high school, got recruited by Kobe
24:50
and some other schools ended up there that.
24:53
And so that's that bridge of all those things, you know.
24:55
And so between my senior year, my senior year in college, and
24:59
my first year of grad school, summer in 94, I was back in New
25:02
York City working, and Mr. Taylor asked me to be his
25:06
assistant. Oh the the club.
25:07
Yeah, yeah. So I was I was assistant coach
25:09
all summer. And still all Girls Club.
25:11
Yeah, yeah. And so I travel with them.
25:13
I go to meets at help out. I don't know how much help I
25:16
was, you know, really. But I think he knew that I was
25:18
into it, a young coach and he he just helped me out and I've
25:23
watched and I learned and I'd ask questions and he had a he
25:26
had a 59 second hurdler in high in high school.
25:30
He had another girl who was a youth champion, the triple jump.
25:33
He had a couple other kids that he had a 206-2078 hundred meter
25:37
girl in the club. He had a 13613 seventy hurdler.
25:41
I mean he had a crew because I was around that and getting to
25:44
watch them and see the workouts he did.
25:45
He had a couple of the kids that were 24424 six and the 200, you
25:48
know, all in this one area. That's what I that's what I was
25:51
like. Oh, wow, OK.
25:52
And so that's that's how I got started.
25:55
You know, that's how I got started.
25:57
You did. You finished out your grad.
25:58
Luckily for you, I think you finished out your grad work at
26:01
Smith. You said you got the four by one
26:04
one the year before. It was second year before.
26:07
Second year before How'd they do?
26:08
So we were we were ranked, we were ranked second my first year
26:13
one somebody on the relay and the head coach had a big blow up
26:17
and so she decided she wasn't taking the relay to nationals.
26:21
I was and I love Carla. Like I, I wouldn't be without
26:24
Carla. I was like, what?
26:27
And that was that. Not the athlete, just the whole
26:29
team. We 20 and the relay nationals
26:30
like wow. And so that was that.
26:33
So hey. That's sticking to your guns
26:36
though. The next year I had a relay 4x4
26:38
make internationals and a cup 400 hurdler.
26:40
But yeah, I mean it was, it was really.
26:43
I wrote everything, the warm up, the weight training, and she
26:47
just turned it over. To your program now.
26:49
This and when I first got there, she was like, OK, are you going
26:54
to coach? She said, you're going to coach
26:55
Sprint hers and she may talk about it in the summer.
26:57
She's like, OK, bring me down some of your workout ideas like
27:00
that. So I'm like, OK, you know, and I
27:02
and I had gone. The other thing I should say, I
27:05
know we're kind of weaving in and out.
27:06
My senior year in college, Lauren Segrave had was putting
27:10
on this thing called the elite Sprint seminar.
27:11
It was in Vegas. It was a 2 day seminar right
27:16
around Thanksgiving, maybe right before or after I can't
27:18
remember. And I asked my mother for
27:21
Christmas gift, holiday gift. Can I get a ticket for that?
27:24
I paid for my registration. A women's head coach went and my
27:29
head coach sent our sprints coach.
27:31
So we actually room together, which I'm sure is an NCA
27:34
violation. My head coach died a few years
27:35
ago. So it's like, whatever.
27:36
But he said if you go, yeah, if you go, I'll let you room a
27:39
Coach G So I mean, that's that kind of support.
27:42
I don't think he was trying to, you know, like just that's what
27:44
he did. And so we all went, spent two
27:47
days with about 30 other people. Listen to Lauren talk from 9:00
27:52
AM to 7:00 at night, 2 days in a row about Sprint, Sprint
27:56
training, things like that. At that seminar, I met Tony Vini
28:02
and he was coaching at Cal State Northridge at the time.
28:04
And we, he just gave me his card and, you know, he was the
28:07
women's Sprint Development Co chair, so for a long time, yeah.
28:11
So when I got to grad school, we, we had to graduate either a
28:16
special studies project or a thesis.
28:18
I did a special studies project. So I did.
28:20
I edited a book on spinning and hurdling and so Tony wrote one
28:23
of the articles for me. Remy wrote some articles for me.
28:26
John Miller, who used to be at Notre Dame and wrote some
28:28
articles for me. I had some really Commie Bottom
28:30
who I teach with now. He wrote one of the articles for
28:33
me on ply metrics. Mr. Taylor, I did an interview
28:35
with him. I had good people, man.
28:36
I sold for about 15 years. I probably sold about.
28:39
What was this called? Spinning and hurdling.
28:41
Probably some Gil. Gil used to sell it.
28:44
I, I probably sold 2000 copies, you know, you know, self
28:49
produced, edited everything. That was my special studies
28:51
project. So I was very into the Lauren
28:54
Seagrave thinking mentality type stuff.
28:57
That's what kind of directed my training at that point.
28:59
And that's, I brought this to Carla and she's bring me a
29:03
training. She's like, well, you know, do
29:05
you think they need a bigger base and more aerobic stuff?
29:08
And she was a good coach, but that was, you know, and she was
29:10
in this meeting because I know she was, and she had been on
29:13
numerous teams and committees with with tack and USA track and
29:17
field. And she said, I think you should
29:20
do some more of this. And I was like, OK, OK, I went
29:23
back to my apartment And this is what's weird because I had I had
29:26
a lot of respect for her. I was like, I really don't
29:28
believe in that. I think this I went back and I
29:31
said coach coffee and she's no call me Carla.
29:34
And I was like, OK, Carla, I said I understand what you're
29:37
saying. This is like 2 hours later, 3
29:39
hours. I said, I don't mean to be
29:39
disrespectful, but I really believe in this.
29:45
Can I do it this way? And she's she's looks at me.
29:47
She goes, I know all that new stuff and I get it.
29:50
But she's like, you know what, I'm going to let you do it.
29:52
But they got to be ready to go and she let me do it.
29:55
And we ran well and did well. But I mean, like, I can't
29:58
believe I went back to her because I was terrified and she
30:02
said yes and boom, yeah. So.
30:05
Especially at Carla Coffey. I mean.
30:07
Well accomplished back then. Well accomplished now, right?
30:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So that's.
30:10
Who are you? You're a grad student.
30:11
I was some. Dude who had no real formal
30:16
coaching experience taking her relay and group that had done
30:20
well and saying I want to do it this way and I'm it worked out,
30:24
you know, worked out that's. Awesome.
30:26
It's kind of crazy. Where was after Smith?
30:28
So after Smith, I went and I was the head coach of Iowa Wesleyan.
30:32
Is that right? Yeah.
30:34
So one of them, when I'm looking for jobs as a grad student, I
30:38
got a couple offers. One was at UMass for like
30:40
$10,000, no insurance. And Iowa Wesleyan, one of my
30:45
college teammates, he was going to grad school at University of
30:48
Iowa. His wife had gone to Kobe as
30:50
well. She had graduated in 1990.
30:52
She went to Springfield for grad school and she was the head
30:55
tracking cross country coach, but she was also teaching a full
30:58
load there. And it was, it was more than
30:59
what she was supposed to be doing.
31:00
The the person was supposed to be the head track coach when she
31:02
got there, became the head football coach right when she
31:05
got there. So it shifted all her
31:07
responsibilities. So she was like, I cannot do all
31:08
this next year. So I I was the head track coach.
31:11
She was the head cross country coach.
31:12
And so he had three Kobe people in what, in Mount Pleasant, IA
31:18
there. And so that's how I got.
31:19
Yeah, yeah. So that's how I got Iowa, but
31:22
that's how I got there. So I was a head.
31:24
I was a head track coach. And how long were you there?
31:26
Two years. You're the head.
31:27
Coach yeah, we were bad. Like, like with my relay at at
31:33
Smith's main nationals, my fastest person was 64 seconds.
31:36
When I first got there. I was like, Oh my gosh.
31:38
Like it was bad. It was bad.
31:40
And then Jim Grant at Iowa, he was the head coach.
31:43
Then he had some kids that weren't going to be qualifiers
31:47
and he called me up because we were NAIA send me some
31:51
information about kids. And I started making connections
31:53
in Jamaica and I got another person from Ivy Coast just.
31:57
And he set it all up and we got third the next year at
31:59
nationals, third indoor and 4th out there.
32:02
And my AD was shocked. And he's like, I can't.
32:04
He's like, oh, how'd you guys do it?
32:05
Nationals or goes third? He goes, what do you mean?
32:07
He goes, we got 30. He goes as a team.
32:08
I'm like, yeah, we've been like setting conference records and
32:11
school records all year. He didn't pay attention and but
32:14
we got third and it was really cool and I didn't feel like they
32:19
was they were keeping their promises to me about certain
32:21
things or there was scholarships or, or and he and I at the time
32:26
getting along. He gave me an opportunity but
32:28
also felt like he wasn't respecting what we were doing.
32:31
So I think. Sometimes administration,
32:33
because I have similar experience when I coach JUCO in
32:35
Kansas where they just, you know, oh, yeah, you're doing
32:39
this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:39
We're going to do this. We're going to take care of.
32:40
We're going to take. And then when the rubber meets
32:42
the road and it's time to do it, I think they're very good at
32:45
saying yes about the dream. And then a little harder when it
32:48
comes time to actually maybe not give football a bigger increase
32:52
and so they can give it to you. Yeah.
32:53
And so disheartening because you work so hard at doing that.
32:57
So I sent out stuff to a bunch of schools.
33:00
Hey, I'm looking to leave. It's a possibility.
33:02
But Kendry College had just started their program and they
33:05
were like fifth at nationals that same year.
33:07
And he was like, oh, shoot, this guy with, you know.
33:09
And so we started talking early summer, late spring, and I
33:16
became the, I became the associate coach.
33:19
I had an offer between go there or go to Swarthmore as the head
33:22
coach and D3 academics similar, I really, and Swarthmore offered
33:27
me more money. They offered me $32,000, which I
33:31
thought was a lot of money then. And the AD had had, he had been
33:35
the head coach at Amherst and he had also coached the other guy
33:39
in our grad program at Smith that had done track.
33:42
So he was his coach. And so that was there was that
33:44
connection. He knew Carla and things like
33:45
that. And I really, really thought
33:48
about it. But I thought we could win a
33:49
national title at Mckendry. And when I was there, we would,
33:52
we won 32 indoor, one outdoor. We were second outdoor.
33:55
And that's interesting. So you you took the less paying
33:58
job. Yeah, yeah.
34:01
I mean, you know, it worked out. Right, right, right, right,
34:03
right. But you know, a lot of times
34:06
coaches as they're going through their call it their progression
34:10
with different schools, a lot of time is it is you know, that
34:14
school is going to be 5000 more. OK, let's go.
34:16
You know, it's all about that because we get paid so little as
34:20
compared to other some other sports that are out there.
34:23
So that's interesting. Took that.
34:24
And so you're at Mckendree, and did you become the head coach at
34:26
McKinney? No, no, I was associate.
34:27
Coach and this would have been 90. 98 to 2000. 98 to 2000, that
34:32
was a little bit earlier than that.
34:33
OK, So Mckendree, so you went from middle of nowhere Iowa to
34:37
middle of nowhere Illinois. OK.
34:39
What happened after Mckendree? So we were pretty good.
34:42
I mean, I had a lot of good kids there, you know, talented
34:44
people, hard working kids. I coached the women's Prince,
34:48
hurdles jumps, Maltese horizontal jumps, Maltese and
34:51
the coach, the men's friends hurdles, horizontal jumps had
34:54
just, you know, we had won three titles, so we're pretty good.
34:58
Got a call from Andy Roberts at Syracuse.
35:01
So basically what happened was actually what happened was Carol
35:03
Smith called me and said, hey, Andy's looking for a coach.
35:07
Sport was Carol. She was.
35:09
At See 92,000 Alabama, she was at Penn State.
35:13
Penn State, OK. I think she was, yeah, I think
35:17
Penn State. And she said and he's looking
35:20
for a jumps Maltese person. I told him you'd be good.
35:23
I had him now. How did you know her?
35:25
Oh, so to Tony Vinnie. So Tony Vinnie was his Co chair
35:30
for USATF. So he when I was doing my my
35:33
special studies project, he was doing articles.
35:35
Hey, you know, when you get your job, let me know where you're
35:39
at. I called him.
35:40
I was going to say I want you to be my regional junior, my
35:43
regional junior development chair.
35:45
It was a title without much responsibility.
35:46
I had some things to do, but so because of that, I got to go out
35:50
to the junior elite camps at Chula Vista.
35:53
And so that's why I met Tony Wells.
35:54
Yeah, I was gonna say you had to.
35:55
Yeah, Tony Wells. And so Tony V and Tony Wells
35:57
were there, and I learned a ton from them and I went out for a
35:59
couple. And that's why I met Curtis
36:00
Taylor, because he'd always have the athletes there.
36:03
So that's How I Met Curtis Taylor in 97 at the Junior
36:06
League camp, and that's why I met Tony Wells.
36:08
And so I was there and you know, because of Tony Wells, I knew I
36:12
met Carol at some point and was. Was Tony Wells.
36:16
He was her coach and. Curtis connected at all or like?
36:20
Tony was one of Tony Wells was one of Curtis's mentors.
36:23
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
36:24
And so Tony mentored me as well. And several.
36:26
Other. Yeah.
36:27
And so that's how new Carol, she talks to Andy Roberts at
36:31
Syracuse. She goes, hey, Andy talked to
36:33
Dan and Gary too, Dan Path and Gary Winkler.
36:36
I knew Dan when I first got to IO Wesley and when I didn't get
36:40
much, when I got $18,000 to be head track coach, sports
36:44
information director, assistant athletic director.
36:47
Those are my titles, 18,000. But I had insurance, I had
36:49
health insurance. I said I got to get at least
36:53
$1000 in professional development money.
36:55
And so I, I went to the Nakata Congress my first year in Puerto
36:57
Rico and it was Dan speaking it no one of Victor Lopez runs, It
37:02
was Dan Path, it was Jerry Clayton, it was Joe V Hill and
37:08
Dave Roman from SMU. Those were the four speakers
37:10
over those two days. And I read, yeah, huge.
37:14
I read some stuff from Dan before and I'm gonna turn that
37:17
weekend, I'm sure now. I didn't understand half the
37:20
stuff he was saying, but it it turned on light bulbs and I'd
37:23
been out in in the Lauren Seagrave kind of stuff.
37:25
So they had coached together, LSU, lots of similarities.
37:29
And Dan said, you know, hey, if you ever need anything not to
37:31
meet to the audience, you know, give me a call, e-mail, fax.
37:35
And I took him up. On it, you took it as you are
37:37
talking about. Yeah, yeah.
37:38
And so. I had some issues that year and
37:40
I had a high jumper, A52 high jumper and I I said, Hey, I'm
37:44
having problems because you send me some video, I'll look at it.
37:47
And five two made it to the NA nationals back there and he sent
37:51
me back articles and detailed feedback on my 5 two jumper,
37:55
like she was like a six foot jumper, you know, and I was
37:57
like, wow, embarrassing rotation and this that and the other and
38:01
oscillation, you know, turning pages looking so isn't.
38:04
That phenomenal. Yeah, that he would do.
38:06
That yeah, the next year when I had a good team, I had a girl
38:09
that got hurt. She hurt her hamstring.
38:11
I called him. I said, hey, Dan, I remember you
38:13
talking about Donovan Bailey in 96 getting hurt before the
38:15
Olympics and what you did. And he started talking about
38:17
neuro lymphatic and and, and holding points and pressure
38:21
points and, and foot reflexology.
38:24
I'm like, whoa. So I I take it yeah, but I've
38:28
taken kinesiology and so I knew some of the some of the stuff
38:32
he's talking. Monita Taylor at that point was
38:35
still training, but she was getting her certification and
38:39
massage. So I called her and said, hey,
38:42
what does this mean? What are you talking about?
38:43
She starts breaking it down for his go get this, but go get
38:45
that. So all this stuff comes back
38:47
together. So I go to the library and I
38:49
order and I read and I order and I start working on these kids
38:52
and they run fast again. And OK, so I become, you know, a
38:54
true believer. So that's how I started to get
38:57
to know Dan at Mckendry. They used to have this meet
39:00
called the Cannon. For me, it was in Indianapolis.
39:03
Butler hosted. Yeah, the NIF.
39:05
Center, yeah. And so we went when I was in
39:07
Mckendry and had it and, you know, Alabama were going, Texas
39:09
would go. Yeah, it used to be huge, big.
39:12
My kids, one of the men, 60 and the women's sixty, they were
39:15
good, like 663 and like 720 something.
39:18
And Dan came in the next day, 'cause that was a Friday.
39:20
He got there on Saturday and he's like, oh man, I heard you
39:23
guys were tearing it up last night.
39:25
Man, you could have knocked me over.
39:27
Like he knew what we did. Like that was like, whoa, damn,
39:29
Fat knows, you know, like what we did.
39:31
Like it was like that was one of the best compliments that ever
39:34
gotten in my life. So very similar when I was at
39:37
Mississippi State, he had a stud, long, long high, maybe
39:40
3333 jump. Guy did all three really, really
39:44
well. His guy was favored to win the
39:46
long job. He was.
39:46
I think he might even been a national champion.
39:49
My kid wins the long jump at SEC and his kid gets sick and I'm
39:52
sure and Dan comes to me, comes over to me and, you know, sticks
39:57
his hand out, goes congratulations.
39:58
And I was like, oh. Why Dan?
40:01
Congratulating me like that. He would even take the 2nd to
40:05
come say congratulate. I was floored.
40:08
Absolutely one of the best compliments in my career.
40:11
Actually it's. Just and so that's how the
40:13
Syracuse so and then he was there for three years, coach the
40:18
jumps and Maltese had pretty good success in school records
40:21
nationals that's. Interesting, I was going to ask
40:23
how is education playing into your career at this point but
40:27
you hit that. Nail.
40:28
Here's the here's the funnier thing.
40:30
So in 2001 Ron Grigg calls me because he and I had met at a
40:36
Level 3 in Chicago in 99 and he's like hey, booze looking Boo
40:42
and Cliff are looking to reboot the multi event stuff for
40:46
coach's Ed. They're looking for people to
40:48
kind of do this pilot study course.
40:50
I suggested you, I suggested you.
40:52
So through Level 3 and we just started connecting.
40:56
He was at Kansas State and then. Ju.
40:58
Was this when he was before because he went JU?
40:59
Kansas State ju right, I met him.
41:02
When he was at Georgia Southern. No, they can't.
41:05
Thinking of Todd. I am thinking of Todd.
41:07
No, I met him when he was at JU. When I was at Troy, we used to
41:09
go down to Florida. And so he was a Lauren guy.
41:12
And so we talk if we share information, we e-mail questions
41:15
to each other back for a week. Two of us, we e-mail Boo and ask
41:17
him questions. And so he's like, yeah, I boots.
41:20
I think to have you come out. He said call him.
41:23
I called yeah, we're doing this reboot of the multi events
41:26
curriculum. We're going to bring you out.
41:28
They fly me out. They put me up.
41:30
Everything is me, Jim and Ottegan is there, John Bauman is
41:35
there, Ron is there a bunch of people like this cohort.
41:38
I don't think Todd was there, but that that kind of group.
41:41
And so we do that and then that's so so who's like, hey,
41:50
you know, could you maybe be I'd like to maybe talk to you about
41:55
being an instructor. You know, where'd you do your
41:56
level 2 at? I go, well, I said, I really
41:59
haven't done my level two. I said I just kind of hung out
42:01
with Dan. I'd go visit Dan, I'd call Gary,
42:03
I'd hang out with Gary, I'd go visit Boo.
42:06
But I never went to level 2 because level threes weren't you
42:09
could just go. And so I would I would go to he
42:12
goes, Oh man, you got to go level 2GO do it this summer, do
42:15
the jumps. And then that's what happened.
42:17
I started teaching you year 2. Later.
42:18
Where was that? Where did you do your?
42:19
Level. I did jumps in Boise.
42:21
Is that right? Yeah, that's what I did.
42:23
Yeah. That was mine.
42:24
Yeah. That was your first level, too.
42:26
That's interesting. So you're at level 2 in Boise
42:36
taking jumps with Boo, which I know exactly that class because
42:39
I was in that class. I can't believe that.
42:41
That's crazy. That was where I was first
42:43
introduced to the ability of drawing stick figures from.
42:48
It's amazing, Right, Right, right.
42:49
I mean legendary legendary. I wish we could go back and you
42:54
know, it's funny, we're in your office and I'm looking up and
42:57
you've got two notebook Boo training and Boo stuff.
43:00
I, I love that. I can't say enough about that
43:03
man and what he did for my career.
43:05
I wish we could go back and get a roster of everybody that was
43:08
in that class. It would be real interesting.
43:11
Oh, and there's a big one month by month.
43:14
Is that what it says? Oh man, I wish we could get a
43:16
roster and everybody that was in that.
43:18
I think we, you know, I'm sure we've forget some people that
43:20
were in there. What's his name's wife who
43:23
coached at Florida? State.
43:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jackie. Jackie.
43:26
Yeah, she was in there, remember?
43:28
Oh. Man, and Jacoby was in there.
43:31
Is that right? Of course, Yeah.
43:33
Yeah. Wow, Man.
43:35
I just remember like that was I coached for 10 years total and
43:40
that was at the end of my fifth, fifth year.
43:42
The performances of my athletes in the first five years of my
43:46
career compared to the. Last, it really makes a
43:48
difference, yeah. Radically different because he's
43:50
so smart. So let's compare Boo to Dan and
43:52
you know both of them really well.
43:53
I know Dan a little bit, but for me, like Boo can teach it to
44:00
where somebody like me can understand it.
44:04
Dan, I hadn't been around him enough and I know he's a good
44:07
teacher, but he whenever I've talked with him, it's just that
44:11
another. It's an understandable.
44:13
Level, I think that wow, they both huge, huge mentors to me
44:18
and their friends now it's amazing that we have the
44:22
relationship that we do. You know, I'm very fortunate
44:24
outside of just the track stuff, life stuff and things like that.
44:26
But with I think who approaches more of a more of like a high
44:34
school teacher, even though Dan taught high school as well, I
44:37
think he kind of tries to make it so he spent a lot of time
44:41
called teaching high school. I think he kind of has that
44:44
approach to it. Whereas I feel like this is,
44:46
this is just my opinion. I feel like Dan is almost trying
44:49
to challenge you to learn and go out and seek information in a
44:53
different way. And so they both turn on light
44:56
bulbs, but I feel like it's different.
44:58
Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.
45:00
And it actually makes a lot of sense for my own education level
45:03
and how I learned that I I'll, I'll need that guy who teaches
45:06
down at the 9th grade level where Dan Path teaching, he's
45:10
teaching PhD. And it's like, man, I can't even
45:11
spell PhD. So, you know, like he'll say
45:13
stuff like, oh, I never even heard of that, never thought of
45:15
that. I mean, this stuff I'd go back
45:16
and re watch lectures or go through notes like like, you
45:20
know, there's and they both when they teach, if you go back,
45:24
there's seeds for years to come. Yeah.
45:26
Shoot. Because where you're at and the
45:28
problem you have, then they don't get like, oh, I didn't
45:31
even realize. I didn't understand that.
45:32
And that still happens to this day.
45:34
It's interesting you talked about Dan with that 52 high
45:36
jumper. So Boo was that for me when I
45:38
was at Ball State where at the end of level 2, you know, he's
45:42
hey, if you have anything and, you know, I was like, all right,
45:44
I'm gonna take that. You're talking to me.
45:45
I'm taking that up. And I'd e-mail him and it's
45:48
always a always a thoughtful response, not just a yeah, keep
45:52
doing what you're doing, you know, Hey, have you thought
45:53
about this? It was, I mean, just people like
45:56
that that give back and now you're in that part of your life
45:59
where you're now continually giving back as well.
46:02
You've been poured into from all these people.
46:06
So what do you what do you do now?
46:07
You're are you teaching USTFC? ATUSFCA This year I'm teaching
46:12
jumps, but I've taught sprints and hurdles probably the last
46:14
eight or nine years or so. You're teaching.
46:16
Jumps. Teaching jumps this.
46:17
Year not Boo, no Boo. Not has a prior commitment.
46:21
So I'd be disappointed if I came and.
46:25
It wasn't. So I'm doing jumps this year.
46:27
But yeah, I mean, like I said, Tony Rooney, Tony Wells, Dan and
46:33
Boob and huge, huge influence on me.
46:35
And even young, when I was younger, Lauren would answer my
46:37
calls and answer my emails. So I get a reasonable on the
46:41
emails, a reasonable on the calls.
46:42
I try to get back to most of them.
46:44
I have a eight-month old daughter, so things are kind of
46:47
hectic right now. Yeah, I.
46:49
Know about Malcolm? Malcolm's got to be.
46:50
He's 11/11/12 next month. Man, but it's so fascinating,
46:55
you know, we're connected on Facebook.
46:57
You know, you are a really good father, I can tell you that.
47:00
Like it's been shame with me for waiting this long.
47:03
To tell you that. But it does mean a lot to me to
47:05
look you in the eye. You're so good with him and
47:08
you're, you know, I actually, so I have a nine and a six.
47:11
I actually learn a lot from how you do things with Malcolm.
47:15
And I see, you know, I see the snippets, right?
47:17
But you seem to be very varied in what you do with him.
47:21
Like you haven't locked him in? Like only do this.
47:23
Or like oh you want to explore this?
47:25
Let's go check that out. I, I try to model that with my
47:27
kids, man. They show an interest, they look
47:30
OK, Let's go explore. One thing for me, I feel like I
47:32
don't know what he's going to be.
47:34
He he he's into engineering and programming like that.
47:37
He thinks he wants to be an engineer.
47:38
He's 11 who knows, but I feel like I want to try to support
47:41
him and he wants to do that's positive.
47:43
I appreciate the the the compliment of being a good
47:46
father. It's hard.
47:49
I, and I'm saying this because I feel like people I fail a lot
47:52
and I try to redeem myself and try to say I apologize to him
47:55
when I make mistakes because I want him to know it's OK to make
47:57
mistakes. I am not perfect, but I feel
48:01
like I'm, I'm trying my best and, you know, I, I didn't have
48:05
good fathers. And so I feel like I'm trying to
48:07
be the person that they weren't and not that they were bad
48:11
people, but I'm, I really feel like I'm trying to be the
48:14
opposite, provide the opposite example.
48:17
And I had good uncles, I had good mothers, good grandmothers.
48:19
So I have good examples of what adults should be in children's
48:22
lives. And I'm trying to carry that on
48:25
and help him to put him in a situation where he can do any
48:27
better for his kids. But he just, you know, it's
48:31
funny, when he was younger, he would come to our meets and be
48:33
excited. And he wasn't in the track at
48:35
all for a while. And he's middle school now,
48:37
started in 6th grade. And there's a track club nearby.
48:39
He's like, dad, I think I'm doing the track club.
48:41
But he just said I'm fast in the gym class.
48:43
So I do it. Will you quote, will you help
48:45
me, help me write workouts and stuff?
48:46
And I'm like, yeah, now we're just honored that he thought
48:49
enough of me. I'm his dad.
48:51
Dad. Yeah, asked me.
48:53
I was like. Yeah, yeah.
48:54
Help you. And that touched my heart, you
48:56
know? And it probably is even stronger
48:59
for him because you let him gravitate towards track, not
49:03
hey, come to the track, we're going to do track.
49:05
But like, it's his own decision. He's going to own it now.
49:08
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.
49:11
Cool. And you're a huge, I shouldn't
49:14
say huge. You appear to be Facebook shows
49:16
what you want to show, right? Star Wars and things.
49:19
Like that, that's my thing comes up there.
49:22
Yeah. My daughter is named Leia after
49:24
Princess Leia. No, no.
49:26
Yeah, so I wanna name of Angela Malcolm is named at the Malcolm
49:29
X Yeah. And my daughter, I wanted to
49:33
name her Angela after Angela Davis, civil rights activist,
49:36
intelligent, brilliant, brilliant woman.
49:38
My wife said no, so I was vetoed so and.
49:42
She holds. Yeah, so we came with some of
49:44
the names and Leia was one of the on the approved list, so we
49:47
named it Leia after I'm. Glad it's just not me and my
49:50
wife that had the approval. List.
49:52
So yeah, she's named the Princess Leia, or General Leia
49:55
however you want to. Look at.
49:55
So cool. And I feel like that's a strong
49:57
name, so. Yeah, we did.
49:59
So we went to Disney World this year and got to go the Disney
50:02
World. He built his own joy.
50:04
And all that. And then over the what I call
50:07
the Christmas break, you have a Christmas break, 'cause you're
50:09
in school. I don't have Christmas breaks,
50:11
but I still call it a Christmas break.
50:13
We watched 'cause we got Disney Plus, so we watched all eight of
50:17
the Star Wars. They had all back in order of
50:22
of. Release.
50:25
Not release. 123. Yeah, so yeah, Jar Jar Binks and
50:28
stuff 1st and then then my era of Star Wars and now the new
50:31
era, which I don't get the new era very well, but but it was
50:35
neat to a see all eight films in or so you see the development of
50:39
Anakin from a baby to, you know, who he is and stuff.
50:43
Spoiler alert for anybody but for my son to watch it and like
50:48
was super interested and you know, I was like, oh, so that
50:51
becomes Darth Vader. And so it was interesting
50:54
watching, you know, especially the ones around my ear, the, you
50:57
know, Return of the Jedi and stuff through his eyes because
51:00
like when we found out Darth Vader was Luke's dad, like he
51:05
already knew it because the story.
51:06
And I was like, I was like, man, that was a big deal when I was
51:09
right. Exactly.
51:10
Like everybody just lost their stuff before we learned.
51:13
That yeah, his favorite ones are Return the Jedi and Attack of
51:17
the Clones. I think attack of the clones is
51:19
probably his favorite too. It's it's fun.
51:21
The last scene is amazing. So hey Kiva man, I can't say
51:24
thank you enough. It's awesome.
51:26
You know, the, the mentors that you have are some of my same
51:29
mentors. So it's cool to see.
51:31
And what's even cooler to see is how the progression of your
51:35
career and how you are now that person.
51:38
Like I'm going to interview other coaches and they're going
51:40
to say, yeah, you know who I reached out to?
51:41
Kayla Tolbert and he emailed me back, I guarantee.
51:44
You. That's crazy.
51:46
It's awesome, man, It's a legacy that they have put in from their
51:50
side of, of, of, you know, the Taleses and then pass and stuff.
51:54
And now you move on to that legacy and even most more
51:57
importantly, the legacy of, you know, fatherhood with with
52:00
Malcolm and and Leah. I love that name.
52:01
So promise me that we'll do a Part 2.
52:04
Yeah. You can't even get through your
52:05
full career. And I love your career.
52:07
Thank you. And again, you're, you know,
52:10
outside the track for you is just just fascinating.
52:13
You know, the Bronx and now living in Boston, it's just,
52:16
it's just. Amazing Yankees go Yankees
52:19
thank. You so much.
52:19
Man, thank you, man. I appreciate.
52:22
It boy, I told you this was one of my all time favorite
52:25
interviews. I've done several of these
52:28
through different mediums and Cuba continues to shock and awe
52:32
me in all the right ways of his background, his passion for
52:37
education, his passion for coaching, his passion for
52:42
teaching and, and we barely got into it.
52:45
I could have spent two more hours with Cuba, and I really
52:48
hope I do get that opportunity to do that once again and do a
52:52
Part 2 and maybe a part three with this.
52:56
This just fascinating individual.
52:58
Love him to death. By the way, if you or someone
53:01
you know would like to be a guest on the show, please don't
53:05
hesitate to contact me at HURDLE at gillathletics.com.
53:13
That's right, Hurdle at gillathletics.com. yeah.com, of
53:17
course. And you know, if you've been at
53:19
this far and you're still listening, I just really
53:21
appreciate your time and attention.
53:22
It means the absolute world to me that you'd spend an hour plus
53:26
of your time listening to our podcast here.
53:28
I really hope you enjoyed connecting with Kiva as much as
53:31
I did. You weren't there, so you
53:33
couldn't have got as much enjoyment.
53:34
But let me tell you what fascinating individual.
53:38
If you want to get notified when we publish more interviews, we
53:41
don't do them on our regular schedule.
53:44
It's as the coaches are available for us and willing to
53:48
do this. Just subscribe on your podcast
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53:54
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53:58
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54:00
hope you feel led to share this podcast on your social media
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54:06
have others enjoy these interviews that we're doing and
54:09
join us next time when we once again connect you with another
54:13
great track and field coach. Bye bye.