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Rugby Direct - Episode 185 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle of Drum Dickney Scy.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Tryst get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Folklib Solutions, lifting you
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith and
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: with me Liam Napier, New Zealand Herald Rugby Writer. We
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: are in Perth on a Sunday morning, about to sign
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: off from our duties. But we couldn't leave our podcast
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: family with nothing that listened to before we hit it
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: back across the ditch. So one more for the ditch,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: One for the ditch, Liam, and we sit here on
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: a Sunday morning, reflected on the All Blacks twenty eight
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: fourteen win over Australia at OPTAs Stadium in Perth, first
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: time they got back to back wins in this Rugby Championship.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: It was a wets game, especially in the second half.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Conditions didn't come to play as much as probably the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: All Blacks or the Wallabies would have liked them too.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: But the All Blacks granded out a win twenty eight
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: to fourteen. What were your initial top line thoughts on
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: that performance.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: It was a very wet day, wasn't it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Elliott rain constantly pretty much throughout Saturday and a bit
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: round today as well, which did make handling difficult.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Look, I think it was a step forward for the
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: All Blacks.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: They've been searching for that consistency having gone win loss, win, loss,
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: win loss, but I think it's only a small one.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: I'm still not totally convinced about this All Black team.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: There were some pleasing aspects, particularly on an individual standpoints.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Quinta pirate Center it was a real standout, particularly given
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: the fact that it's an unfamiliar position. Talked to him postgame,
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: didn't we and he talked about he was actually training
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: on the Monday on the wing, and then he was
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: named on the Tuesday internally at center with no heads up,
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: so real surprise to him. So given that context, in
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: the fact that he'd barely played there in the last
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: five years, that was a brilliant performance for him. From
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: a team perspective, I think the All Blacks were on
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the rack early, but they found a way through it
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: and I think tactically in the second half they bossed
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: the territory.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: They played to the conditions.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Damien McKenzie, who I didn't think had a great match,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: did step up and kick a couple of big penalties
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: and then George Bauer finishes the job at the end
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: with his first professional try. I think it was in
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: his one hundred and fortieth first class match, so nice
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: moment for him. But I think when the All Blacks
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: sit down to reflect on this Rugby Championship, Scott Barrett
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: mentioned the fact that there's a few scars there, harsh
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: lessons and I think it's another underwhelming tournament tournament for
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to those scars in a moment or two. Look,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: it wasn't a convincing performance necessarily from the All Blacks.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: But even when Australia scored that try to get back
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: close in the second spell to what was it twenty fourteen,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I think it was I didn't feel like they were
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: in a huge danger of losing that game. Australia had
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: that try scrubbed out early on in the game and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: that could have changed the momentum. But call back for
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: the Tom Hooper neck roll Crock Roll. Even when they
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: scored that try it fell out. The All Blacks just
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: always had their noses in the front and head the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: game and their control. I thought the defense was pretty
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: good apart from that one blemish later on the game,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: but otherwise, when Australia threatened, the All Blacks would always
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: come up with a way to snuff it out, and
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I think that was probably the most pleasing aspect of
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the performance. I think attacking wise, there was some glimpses,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: some moments where it looked like it was coming together,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: but for large periods of the game they weren't able
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to really string together attacking phases that hurt the Wallabies.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: They were just playing with possession, able to use this
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: scrum as a weapon for large periods. But it was
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: a sort of weird performance in anyways, because I felt
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: never the All Blacks, you know, and even in the
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: late stagers were in danger of losing, but they didn't
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: assert their dominance as much as they perhaps could have.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's fair, And look, the conditions were
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: a factor, and so was Matthew Carley the referee. He
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: blew twenty eight penalties and I think we've seen two
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: weeks in a row, referees become a real focal point
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: of a stop start, truncated spectacle, and that's a frustration
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: because these were two teams that did want to play
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: even in the condition, so that I think that had
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: an impact. You mentioned the scrum Blocks did use that
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: well even without Ethan de Groot.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: The line out was a wee bit shaky.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: I thought the Wallabies largely won the breakdown again Fraser mcwright,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: a couple of big penalties there so, and I think
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: we saw the recurrence of some issues under the high
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: ball without Caleb Clark.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: So there's some common themes there which worry me.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: With the All Blacks to break down the high ball
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: and the lineout has been a bit shaky this year.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: The Wallabies also considered two yellow cards. You mentioned one.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: The All Blacks didn't score a point when the Wallabies
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: would twice down to fourteen men, so I think still
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: lacking that ruthlessness. But look they scored four tries to
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: one and there were some really thought some individuals stood up.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: And also the context of this is the All Blacks
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: are missing Bowden, Barrett, Caleb Clark, Ethan de Groot and Tuprouvai,
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: who sounds like seasons over with the knee injury and Lomax.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: So you are to get into your depth, and there
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: were some players that stood up were mentioned to pire
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Lester Finelook, who had a couple of big carries. I
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: thought Peter Luckeye was really good at number eights, but
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: then also some questions as well. I don't think Damien
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: McKenzie took his chance. He was better in the second half,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: but he wasn't authoritative, and Ruben Love gets seven or
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: eight minutes off the bench, and that's clearly a lack
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: of trust in them. So he still hasn't had any
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: time at first five and I don't.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Think that was two years for the All Blacks.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think that was the kind of game plan
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: the game where you could have put him in at ten.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: The game was in the balance. I think there was
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a feeling that you needed to keep your game driver
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: in the seat, and disrupting that by bringing in Love
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: for the closing ten minutes could have actually made things worse. Now.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think Dami ckenzy had a great game either,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: but I think if you put Love in in it,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: it could disrupt that momentum that the All Blacks have
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: is they try to close out the game and ultimately
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that needs to be the most important thing rather than
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: getting Love minutes at ten.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Maybe he's been there two years though, and look if
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Mackenzie goes down or barretts.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: This is the first year though that he's been seen
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: as a ten in the All Works environment. Last year
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: you have a pair of fiddle was around very much.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just think there's a real disparity in the messaging.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: You know, bill Blacks are talking about their confidence in
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: him and how he's doing so well at training, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: then they're not giving him any time at ten. And
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: I think there is a lack of depth at ten
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: and he does need some exposure at some point. And
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: if it wasn't going to come last night, then the
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: only potential opportunity that I see on the horizon is
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: maybe against Wales in the last Test of the year.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: So there is a scenario where Ruben of Love doesn't
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: play ten this whole year for the All Blacks.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Again, I mean, he's barely played ten for the Hurricanes,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: and you know, there's got He's got a lot of
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: people out there saying that he should have played ten
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: in this game alone, but he's you know, only started
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: really playing there for the Hurricanes and the back end
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: of that Super Rugby season. There's that enough to be
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: in All Blacks ten.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: I think then they need to start developing that depth
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: there because Boden Barracks is what thirty five Damien mckins
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: is going to be around a while. I know they
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: getting wrong and back next year, but and behind them
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: there's a real lack of options I think, so I
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: would have liked to see them given them the last
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: ten to fifteen minutes. What about the record eleven in
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: a row against the Wallabies, that's not all owing to
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: Scott Robinson. I think that they've got four of those,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: but the eclipses the eight to twenty ten and I
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: guess you know, there has been a real ground swell
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: around the Wallabies this year on the back of the
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: British and Irish Lions. They winner Alice Park, but they've
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: also now lost three in a row and eleven in
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: a row to the All Blacks and I thought we
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: saw them slip backed into some pretty bad habits last night.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: I was really quite disappointed.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: They started well but they faded really badly, a lot
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: of ill discipline, a lot of inaccuracy taintied minute ten
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: was really underwhelming. So I think there's some some worries
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: there for the Wallabies too.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I don't think Ben's a Test player. Kuaike
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Cooper's came out of the same judgment this morning. I've
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: been seeing on social media good super rugby player, but
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I think is out of his depth at Test level.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And look, there was a big opportunity for him potentially
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: last night, but I just don't think that he's a
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: kind of Test ten that the Wallabies need. And I
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: think there's a big question marks there because James O'Connor
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: might have played his last Test and maybe they'll get
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: him out for the end of the year tour potentially,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: but with Tom Liner injured and they don't seem to
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: have a huge amount of trusted him thrust of him
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: for the Lion series. But I think question marks still
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: on him. Ben Doaldson not in the squad, carent you
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: know they're still searching for that ten the Wallabies. So yeah,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I think they took a step backwards. And it's interesting
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you mentioned that that winning streak that they've had the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: all Blacks over the Wallabies have come with two coaches
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: that have been under fire for a lot of their tenures.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Ian Foster with what's seven of those wins? I think
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: last win for the Wallabies was in twenty twenty now
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Scott Robertson with the last four since he took charge.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So for all the I guess the clamoring and you
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: know all the noise last week saying the Bledderslough should
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: be a three match series. Well, currently the Wallabies are
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: in their worst ever streak against the All Blacks so
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you don't deserve a three match series on that basis.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: No, that's right, and it's I think it's five in
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: a row. The All Blacks have won on Australian soil
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: as well, so it's not like that's just happened at
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Eden Park or in New Zealand's And the way to
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: shift that narrative is to get some victories and then
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: if you have a few drawn series then you have
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: a lot more clout to push for three matches. It's
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: hard to fit that in the calendar, but it certainly
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: strengthens your argument. So the longer that streak goes on,
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: the longer the All Blacks dominance over the Wallabies continues,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: and yeah, I think at the start of this Bleedterslough
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: most people would have sat back and said, this is
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: the Wallaby's best chance in probably five years to knock
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: off the All Blacks and at least one of these
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: tests and maybe even regain the Bledders.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Though, well, it's been much of the same, isn't.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: It It has? And they go on to interview two. Now,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: with three games in a row lost, they play Eddie
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Jones's Japan. That'll be a fun game in Tokyo in
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: two or three weeks time. But yeah, before Josement Hans
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the rains over after the Nation's Cup window in July
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: next year, there's a fabit to work on for the Wallabies.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: A couple of plays you mentioned there, leicsterifying Anooka coming
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: in for his first Test and two years on the
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: left wing. I thought he had some moments where he
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: looked really good, didn't come a lot his way in
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: the second spell, then got subbed and Leroy Carter shifted
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: over to that left wing. But I thought it was
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: a promise returned from flying Aku that were glimpses of
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: what he is able to do. It's interesting. I've got
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a theory that he would have started at center last
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: night if not for Caleb Clark been injured, and that
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: may not have seen Quinn to Pie play center. He
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: might have come off the bench again. So they've got
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: nothing to back up that theory. It's just something I
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: threw at you a couple of days ago. But Quinta
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Pie took his chance. Lester Fightingku sort of took his chance.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: But what I think we've saw from last night that
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Caleb Clarke will remain the first choice left wing. Leroy
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Carter is making great strides at the moment on the
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: right wing. You know, his strength so close to the line.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: He's from Burrow over for that first try for the
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: All Blacks to put them up and then you can
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: put fighting a Nuoku on the bench. Does that now mean, though,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: that quint to Pire is the first choice center for
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks on the basis of that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Performance, not on one game.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: No, But look, I think you can say that Quinn
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: did more in one test than Billy did in seven
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: this year. I think Billy has Billy Proctor has been
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: strong defensively at times. But man, that was a statement
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: commanding performance from Quinn and it was all over the park.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: You know, he had to scramble. Center is an extremely
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: tough position defensively because you've got so much space on
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: your outside between yourself and the wing. And he had
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: Max Jorgensen on his outside a couple of times, who's
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: one of the quickest Wallabies, maybe one of the quickest
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: players going around, certainly off the mark, and a couple
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: of bootlaced tackles, so defensively I thought he was really good.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: He shifted into second five a couple of times as well.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: He set up Lerocarda's first trial with a massive charge
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: off the line out defend on Tom Hooper to score
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: his second try, So it really was the full package.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I was quite surprised to see him replaced stuff to
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: fifty five minutes, and I think he certainly looked disappointed
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: coming off. But I think it would be hard to
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: replace him at center for the next game against Ireland
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: in Chicago. But I don't think you could sit here
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: and definitively say that he is the guy.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I agree with you about Leicester.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I don't think he is a long term wing, starting wing,
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: and I think if you asked him there I spoke
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: to him during the week and he certainly said that
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: his futures in the midfield. He played the back end
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: of games on the loose forward in the loose forwards
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: for too long, and I think that's.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: He's comfortable there.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: And we saw one charge where he bumped off Suyer Lee.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: That's his strength ball in hands charging. I think he
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: could be exposed under the high ball, but I did
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: like the way that the All Black scot him involved.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: But I think there's some real options there, aren't there
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: when you look at that center position. I thought Jordi
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Barrett was really good again last night, and that's probably
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: a reflection of the way too Pier played as well.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: It's sort of you made the comment to me that
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: he probably played a more traditional twelve role and maybe
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: he was trying to take on too much with Billy
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: there in recent weeks. I thought he really sparked Bill
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Blacks with a couple of rubber kicks to Pire's first try.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: I came with the falcon, pretty classic way to get
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: a try but a luck. But yeah, I thought that
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: combination worked really well, didn't.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: It It did? Yeah, Well, like I think Jury's not
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Jury's out still because it's only one Test match and
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: you know Ireland will be a pretty good Test with
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: a really strong midfield that they've got, But the Lobbies
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: have a good midfield as well. You know we heard
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: before the series Eki Tower and so Elite you were
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: being talented as one of the best midfield combinations in
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the world. Ikitaw sort of tried last night, but I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: thought both of them have had two quiet Test matches
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: and I don't know that Joseph, of course I saw
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: a Letty's best position is at thirteen.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: No, I agree with you.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: I think I would like to seem at fullback there's
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: more space you can utilize him under the high Borne well,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: I think we only probably or on once in that
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: challenge with Jordie Barrett really contest like that. He probably
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: sees a wee bit more ball at center, but you
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: can get your full back involved more so I would
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: like to see him slip back to forward.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: The other.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: I think an important piece of context with Phil Blacks
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: in the past two weeks as they've played the Wallabies twice, right,
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: and yes they've improved, but they've also lost three in
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: a row and they're not the spring box, and that
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: they do things differently. They their defense isn't as suffocating
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: and I think that particularly in the back climb, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks have enjoyed that a bit
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: more space and freedom. So they're not going to have
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: that when they come up against Irelands and so those
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: are things to consider. So while the All Blacks have
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: improved and they put together back to back performances, they've
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: both been against the Wallabies, so that leaves me a
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: little bit reticent to say they're back or they've definitively
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: shifted the needle.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only three weeks since that. They're very very
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: poor performance in Wellington, and as you said, when you're
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in the midst of eleventh game winning streak against the Wallabies,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: it's hard to judge too much on the basis of
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: that night. You mentioned the spring Box obviously, and while
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks won in Perth, it wasn't enough to
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: claim the Rugby Championship, the All Blacks finishing in second.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: A couple of hairy moments for the spring Box. They
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: were down thirteen three at one point Argentina scored a
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: late try, but ultimately South Africa too good and deserving
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: winners of going back to back in the Rugby Championship.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: They were the best team in the comp. Yes, they
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: lost two games to the Wallabies in Johannesburg and the
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: All Blacks in Auckland, but when they're on they're very
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: hard to stop. The spring Box and worthy winners of
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the Rugby Championship.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: They are, indeed, but it did only come via points
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: differential because of that record loss for the All Blacks
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: and Wellington, and I think that speaks to the competitive
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: nature of this tournament. It's been brilliant, hasn't it Very
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: highly unpredictable, and even that game last night, the Pumbas
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: are right in it had their chances. So I think
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Southern Hemisphere rugby at test levels in a good space.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: But I don't think anyone could say that the Springboks
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: aren't deserving of that title, and the fact they've gone
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: back to back really does symbolize where the All Blacks
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: are at I think as well. I think that the
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: All Blacks that are currently ranked third in the world.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: Historically the All Blacks have dominated the Rugby Championship and
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: that landscape shifted, hasn't it. And it's ironic, isn't it
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: that the Springboks have only now gone back to back
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: for the first time in history because the All Blacks
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: had such a run and it's another trophy in the
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: cabinet for Russy.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Russi continues to collect them. Who is your All
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Blacks player of the Rugby Championship?
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: You might have to go first on this one. It's hard,
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: isn't because they actually had quite a few changes.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Roygal was exceptional at eden Park, but didn't feature a lot.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: Leeba Ricarda came in and played really well at the
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: back end. I'm gonna say, Jordi Barrett, I think from
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: a consistency point of view, he made some quite talent plays,
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: not necessarily at his best, but I think at times
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: he really stood up for the All Blacks in a
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: really fluctuating tournament.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: It is a tricky one, isn't it, Because you look
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: back right to the start in Argentina feels like a
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: lifetime ago. I've had that Argentina League and yeah, kember
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Guard only played two games there were a Carter came
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: back in the back end. I would probably go to
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: po VII. I thought he was good throughout that series.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Obviously didn't play last night in Perth, but ultra consistent
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and it's going to be stating to see. I know
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: he shifted away from that blindside roll during the course
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: of the tournament, moved to Locke, but he's such an
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: important part of this team now and now we'll touch
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: on this on the second half of the podcast in
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: a moment or two. But him being injured is a
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: big blow. But trying to pick out an All Blacks
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: performer of the Rugby Championship quite difficult given the changes,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned in fluctuations and form two.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, big time. I thought Ardie severe when he was captain.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: It seems to elevate his game to another level. He
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: had some real inspirational moments you think about, you know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: the turnovers that mattered or the penalties, but probably didn't
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: reach those heights week to week. So and that's the
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: same as true of the All Blacks. You know, they
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: couldn't sustain that level of performance. So it is tough
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: to pick an individual. I think Lee Roccardo was probably
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: the biggest mover yep. And for me that's a reflection
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: on the selection as well, because Lee, Riccardo, Anemoni and
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: Nadaua were clearly the best wings throughout Super Rugby and
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: it took the All Black so long to get to
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: that point. They went with Sevu and Rico and I
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: understand there's loyalty at that level, but we've seen Lero
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Ocarter come in and make a real impression and I
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: think you could argue they wasted time to get him
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: into the mix.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was felt like there was some loyalty there where. Traditionally,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the Wings have been the hot hands the
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: players come out of Super Rugby. You think back to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, I know, near him and the scudd didn't
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: come into I think the Wallabies test just before the
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: World Cup. But you know, once he took his chance,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: he was in twenty nineteen year George Bridge and Sevarice
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: came out of Super Rugby playing really really well. And
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: it feels like they've gone away from that a little
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: bit in recent times and have been reluctant to do so.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But for me, you feed the hot hand in terms
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: of the Wings and Super Rugby, and that was Leroy Carter,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that was in Monne Nadawa and now I was seeing,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: you know, Caleb Clarke come back in after not a
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: great Super Rugby season and perform as well. So that's
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: yea perhaps a conservative nature of Scott Robertson that maybe
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: we saw the tide change a little bit and last
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: week potentially with you know, the change at number eight
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: with Peter Lukeye Quinte Pyra It's center. Maybe this is
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the new selection way going forward, which will be you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: perhaps promising as we hit on the end of your tour.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just think they need to back some players
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: and that goes back to Reuben Love or a Luckeye.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I thought luck it was really good as ball carrying
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: as a real point of difference. I'm not sold on
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Simon Parker at this point. I feel like that jersey
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: is still contestable. I think there was one occasion where
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: he carried really well, but I don't think we're seeing
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: enough of that side from for a blind sides, you know,
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: I know it was a difficult night, but fumble one
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: line out and just hasn't been as prominent as I
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: would like. So I feel like, could you look at
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: a loose Ford trio of Peter Luckert number so Titi
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: at six where he played so well last year Aldie
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: at seven.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: You could do who would you bring off the bench
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: that regard. Would you bring Parker? Would you Jacobson?
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: I think there's a few options there.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: You could have a Carefa who probably hasn't transferred his
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: form to from Superman to Test level. You could have
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: a Jacobson, maybe a Papa Lege comes again. Somebody's certainly
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: with a bit of versatility, Parker potentially, But I feel
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: like that that trio and the midfield.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Up for grabs.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Indeed, well, speaking of the midfield, we spoke to Quenta
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Pye after full time last night in that two try performance.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Let's have a listen to that chat.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: Now tries set up another He must be pretty pleased
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: with that performance.
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: Sitting yeah, position, I haven't played a lot yet and
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: you've got a lot of confidence from a midfield partner
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: this week and the other boys in the group Billi
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: and Anton Reggs, So you're pretty pleased with their performance.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: What were the pictures that you were seeing out there
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: against Australians.
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we knew there a bit of a soft defense.
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: The likes of Sorely and their winners like to make
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: you dig right into the line, so that's what we
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: trained this week.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Si.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: You shot out quite a few times, change the picture
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: on us a little bit that we were in respecting
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: but likes of guys like Leicster able to fight through
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: their context.
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: So yeah, our statisfying to get the bonus point as well,
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: and you know, who knows what happened a few hours time,
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: but wrap up with the private championship with the point.
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it gives us a chance. Really George Bower's first
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: professional try special moment for him and you were seen
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: the celebrations from the playing group and the bench. We're
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: pretty pleased with that.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: What sort of adjustments if you particularly when it's like
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: famillion position.
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess defensively there's a lot more space to cover,
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: so out there to chase down Jorgenson a few times.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Not used to that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: And yeah, it's a little bit tougher defensively, a bit
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: more space on a tank, which was nice.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: But yeah, and but you still, obviously for the essence
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: of your game, you powerful carries.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, just sort of try to keep it simple. Really,
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: coaches allowed me to do that. Good game plan. We
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: want to be physical and fearless, use our forwards up front,
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: and we had the likes Oflver myself and Leicster. Pretty
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: keen to just get down hold long of carry, so
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: I think we showed that to not.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Was a surprise when you got a coffics in it
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: and is it something you would like to continue.
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: To Yeah, it was a surprise. I didn't really expect it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: Monday clarity. I was running on the wing in and
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: the name got called at center on Tuesday morning with
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: no heads up, so I was all over my detail thought.
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: I trained very well there this week. A lot of
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: confidence going into the game and yeah, I guess happy
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: to play anywhere for this team. Just pretty keen to
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: be on the field where that's twelve thirteen when the
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: twenty two jumpers.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So yeah, just lastly, does it feel like a good
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: step forward?
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: You know those teams decisions one nice, but to go
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: back to back how important.
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's something we spoke about. We haven't backed up well.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: A big performances at the Eden Park and then fell
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: off the week after, so very satisfying for the scroup.
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: It's nice now to have three weeks off and with
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: their performance it's good slipping stone into the Northern Tour.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: We'll be back with the second half of Rugby Direct
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: right after this.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Every try try it tends sixty sick. Every tackle, put
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: back the tackle, get up again a little bit. I
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: can't an it's Rugby Direct talk. You're back with Rugby Direct.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Couple of final things to wash up with fans. We've
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: prepared to leave perf Liam. The interview tour squad is
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: going to be fascinating. There's a few injuries floating about
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks. We wake up this morning and seeing
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: that TuS posted on social media that he thinks his
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: year is done. That's a big blow as they head
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: into the to the Rugby gest to the Grand Slam.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Torol Lomax possibly out for the year as well, seeing
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: a specialist this week, but bar should be back for Chicago.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Waiting for the news on that. But there's a few
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: injuries to juggle. From an All Blacks perspective as they
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: prepare for this interview tour.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: There is, and I think you're right to provide, is
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: a massive loss. He was among the All Blacks best
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: players last year. I don't think we saw the best
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: of them at Blindside, but when he went back to
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: Locke he was very prominent. He is a physical presence.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: He's great over the ball at the breakdown. That's again
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: that's an element of his game he's rarely worked on.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: He has matured to the point where he is called
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks line out a number of times this
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: year and last year, so he's.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: A big out.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: I think they've got Josh Laud in the squad. Maybe
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: Sam Derry comes back into the mix, but Tupo's hard
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: to replace because he does a lot and he does
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: bring a physical presence. And if you look at Fabian
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Hollands and Sam Darry, I don't think they bring that
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: same physical component. Yes, they're great line out figures, but
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Tupo does a lot more, brings a lot more around
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: the field.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: He does Darry I think will come in. I would
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: like to him. Take a look at Nato Koi as
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: well in terms of that Tupo Via replacement, that physical
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: nature that Tupo VI brings with ball in hand, but
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: also very good at the breakdown. A Koi can play
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: a bit of six as well. So if you're looking
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: for a light to light replacement Ikoy I think is
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: that the guy that maybe comes into the mix for
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the end of year too. I don't think he's too
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: far away. He was in the camp earlier in the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: year during the French Series training. I think he's had
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: a pretty good NPC season from what I've seen, so
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: he could well be in the mix for the end
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: of View Tour. They're probably gonna have to dig into
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: their prop stocks with Lomax and bring someone in there.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Barrett should be fine, Ethn degree to be fine. Caleb
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Clark will be fine for the end of View Tour.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Do you see any other changes to this indiview Tour squad?
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I don't have a number on how many they're selecting,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: but it feels like it could go one of two ways.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: They could just roll out the same squad that they've taken,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: or they could maybe take a few risks. Now, there
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: are a few guys in this squad that have been
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: around the environment for a number of years, and to me,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I don't see them ever again. They may have been
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: in the past, but being features of a Test twenty
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: three on a regular basis. So I know you're jotting
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: down to listen there, but is it time to maybe
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: do you do you roll with those same players or
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: do you go we know what they can do, but
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: it's time to bring some new players on the interview tour.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I was making a list hit just guys
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: that we haven't seen. Luke Jacobson, Antlina Brown, some a
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: Penny female, Brodie McAllister's another one. So I think the
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: question is there has the best superior replacement. So one
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: area I would like to see the All Blacks move
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: ons and dead Wood is in the wings. I would
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: not be selecting several Reese Okay for me, his time's
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: done and I think there's far more upside and bringing
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: in a guy like catin Tongueytowl.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Just get him in.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: Maybe only plays against Whales by the end of the year,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: but he could be. These are the sort of guys
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: that could really kick on next year, so I would
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: like to see that happen. I think I suffer ar
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Moore has to come back into the mix for Brodie McAllister.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not too sure about the midfield. I don't think
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: there's a real I don't think there's anyone bashing down
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: the door for an Antelina Brown that's going to really
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: move the needle and the loose forwards. I wouldn't be
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: against a guy like Papa Lu having a second coming.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I think he's still got a bit to offer at
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: this level. He's potentially a bit a versatile. But yeah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: what about you do you do? You do you move
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: on any of those guys? Is there anyone on the
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: fringe that that you would that's a must have in
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: the squad that's going to be a game change?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Well that's a tricky thing, isn't They Are there players
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: knocking on the doors that are worthy of, you know,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: moving in. I think Papali given two po vised injury,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: given you know, the the uncertainty pat reps over Parker
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: and now he's not an out and out sex, but
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I think he's an ideal bench option potentially dalkon Papaliti
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: because he can play six, he can obviously play open
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: side and it push. You could probably put him an
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: eight as well. And I think he's that player that
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: is fairly adaptable in a loose ward trio. And look,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: didn't have a great Super Rugby season, but he's a
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: player that I'd be looking at for the end of
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: year tour. I'm not sure they No hopem is going
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: to be fit, but I don't see the point in
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: continuing to carry Finlay Christie. I would either take Kyle
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Preston or even look at someone Dylan Pledger as apprentice
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: type role.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like Paul Keully was reporting that. It
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: sounds like he Dylan Pledger will go on the All
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: Blacks fifteen to I think they played Georgia and England's.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: A I think bath as We I think got three
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Barbarians or three games in title.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Jamie Joseph leading that team. Dylan Pledger will probably
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: go on that tour before he plays Super Rugby, which
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: is a real nod to his talents and pedigree. In time,
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: I can see it being a roy Garb Pledger double
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: and that would be a lethal combination.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: So it's probably too soon.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably too soon, But I didn't don't see the
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: point of continuing to carry Finlay Christie.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: I totally agree, and yeah, not too sure where where
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: Hotham's at. But they will take three half backs, three hookers,
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: three tens.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: If Reuben love it.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Who knows you're right there? You know, Anton Lenet Brown
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: it look for me. There was a signal this week
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: and I may be written too much into it, but
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: they put Quinte Pier at thirteen. Now anti Lenet Brown
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: is probably a twelve more so than at thirteen. But
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: he could have been the solution they found this week
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: that decided not to that went with Quinta Pie. It
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: paid off. Now I don't know whether Lenet Brown is
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: ever going to come again in an All Blacks twenty
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: three on a regular basis. It feels like he's a
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: potentially a band aid solution, can come off the bench
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: and play midfield. But I don't know if he's an
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Austrial an impact player either. So for me, the starts,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it doesn't in the twenty three, and I can't justify
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: a starting role for him at the moment. So there's
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: not a better option out there. But I just feel
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: like there are players that have been around this All
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Blacks environment for some time that may not ever crack it.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah, they might not be better options out there,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: but he better off looking at someone that's sort of
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: equal or maybe slightly less about you and seeing if
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: they can make a leap to test rugby and maybe
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: find themselves at Teas rugby.
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think midfield's in a wee bit of a
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: state of flux. I mean Jordie's your guy, but centers
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: very much up for grabs.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: It's just who was knocking on the door.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: I guess now you've got to pie, You've got Lester
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: fining a NOOKU Billy Proctor will still be in that mix.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: And so the other guy spoke about Leonnon Brown. But
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: where's Ricoania because he was brought back last night, replaced
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: to PI after about fifty five minutes. But when Caleb
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Clark comes back, he's now potentially your third choice. Rico
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: is potentially your third choice left wing and your third
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: choice center. So he's gone backwards at a great raid
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: of knots. He's going to Leicester Leinster next year and
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: I can see that bear in real challenge given the
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: bar that Jordi Barrett set there.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: But where's Rico at?
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting question, isn't it. And we've seen Rico
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you come again. I guess at test level he was
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: out of favorite twenty nineteen, then twenty twenty, he was
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: back in the starting side for the All Blacks and
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: that and that COVID year and had come back into
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: some real form that season. Maybe the season at Leinster
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: is probably the best thing for him. Potentially. Now it's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: not going to start until after the end of view tour,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: but it feels like his rugby career is at a
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: little bit of a crossroads. They backed him at center
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: last year fearly unconvincing, moved into left wing this year
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: fearly unconvincing once again. So where does he fit into
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: All Blacks back line? Well, there's not a spot in
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the first choice team at the moment for him. Can
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you come and plug him play a role on the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: bench while potentially he can start he plays centric and
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: play a wing. That's versus Tom Huer. But I'm looking
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: at lesifying and look and going. He's probably doing that
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: better than what Rico Juani is at the moment. So
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: it feels to me like you've probably gone the interview tour,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: but almost needs to get to Leinster and find himself again.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: If he's to beckonntinuing his test career into twenty twenty
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: six and beyond.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's probably ahead of Lennard Brown because
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: of his versatility with the wing options, but currently he
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: does not make the All Blacks first choice twenty three and.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: That's a harsh reality.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: I think for him to come to terms of at
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: the moment as well, So yeah, Lenza could be the
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: making or breaking of could be.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Indeed, before we go, tough week for the old New
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Zealand secondary school side. A couple of beltings at the
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: hands of the Australian under eighteen's worth pointing out that
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: it's an under eighteen side versus a school side, but
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: from my understanding, most of those Australian boys are at
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: school or just leaving. Eighty one forty three I think
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: it was in the first game, and the second game
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: yesterday was something like fifty five thirty one or similar.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of points to concede and some good
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: signs for Australia, but some worrying signs for New Zealand
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: big time.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean those are high scores, but to concede
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty odd points in two weeks is
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: not a great signal for that team and potentially the
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: future of New Zealand rugby. I mean, there's a bit
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: of context that we had about schools playing schools and
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: how many of those players caick on. But that is
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: essentially the cream of your future generation, right, and yeah,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: there'll be players emerge in time and some late bloomers.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: They don't all come through that talent ID system, but
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: it is worrying signs because if you look back, a
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: lot of New Zealand's best talent has come through the
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: under twenties when that team was successful, and we've spoken
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: here about I guess the lack of depth and options
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: in some positions and the lack of guys really bashing
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: down the door. So I think there should be concerns
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: about those results and where that team is at.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there needs to be concerns of New Zealand.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Rugby tried to make it into an under eighteens program.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Secondary schools Blue A Gasket weren't happy with that. I
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: think there is some real concerns around that pathway and
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: you know the way that secondary schools operate. Yes, it's
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: an important part of their DNA, but I think there
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: are some questions around, especially in the one A area,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: just the way that they operate as a cabal. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I don't like the way that some of the attitudes
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: taken as prioritizing Rugby sort of over schools and that
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. So there's a bit to work through
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: there and digest. But not good science for New Zealand
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: rugbies and pathways coming through talent identification potentially as well.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: You know, it feels like that it's all collected alongside
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: a real you know, certain group of schools and you
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: have to go to those schools to be spotted. So yeah,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: a lot to work through. I would hasten to add that,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: you know, similar to the Outher twenties, there's that this
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: is the only time that you'll play in this age group,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: and you know, from the time you leave the under
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: twenty New Zealand and twenties wherever it might be, you're
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: playing into the big boys and there's no age cap
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: age gap, brother or sorry age cap you know you're
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: playing a twenty one year old against a twenty nine
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: year old thirty year old, so it all intermingles in
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: one but the signs are not particularly good.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: No, And I think when you look back to when
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks were at their peak, there's a real
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: correlation there about where the twenties were at as well,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: and with the All Blacks stopping back with the lack
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: of consistency and question marks over where they are at.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: And then you look at the future talent coming through,
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: I think there's a reason to be concerned on that night,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: heavy sun there.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely we will wrap up Rugby direct there from Perth.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks very much for your company. Will will be back
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: potentially next week. We're just waiting to hear when the
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: All Blacks interviewed to a squads name, but will likely
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: convene for that, but probably won't be in your on
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: the Monday of next week. We'll take a breather. Also,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: we've had request Liam it throws at you right now
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: to do a bit of a mail bag sort of scenario,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: so he might look to do that before the end
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: of your tour as well, answer some listener questions and
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing and see what our listeners are thinking.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: So sure, come in hot and heavy and put us
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: under the grill.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: We'll get an email or something sorted and we'll you
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: know next time week convene you can get your questions through,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: but otherwise we'll take cake we slight breaking back with
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you at some point in the niches wee while thanks
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: to last and Bars English as well for putting this
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: podcast together and of course Fooklift Solutions lifting you and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: your business to a higher level. Over and out from Perth.
• 40:49
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