Latest / The Keri Croft Show / From Trafficking to Freedom: What Happens When Survivors Are Given Real Support with Freedom a la Cart

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From Trafficking to Freedom: What Happens When Survivors Are Given Real Support with Freedom a la Cart · The Keri Croft Show

0:03
SPEAKER_01: Hey there, you beautiful badass, badass, badass.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Carrie Croft Show.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Carrie Croft, delivering you stories that get you pumped up and feeling like the unstoppable savage that you are.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: So grab your coffee, put on your game face, and let's do this thing, baby.
0:26
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0:53
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0:58
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1:00
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1:51
SPEAKER_00: Vanessa Perkins, welcome to the Carrie Croft Show.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me here.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: How are you?
1:56
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're old friends.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: I am loving the vibe you have in here.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: It is a place that I want to just hang out.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Would you like would you like to come work for me?
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I we uh my boss is in the room.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, that's I'm not I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but hey, you want to come be you wanna come work?
2:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I might have a spot open.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm gonna spend it to be a little part.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Let's see how this goes and and just maybe.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: So let's tee up.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: How how is it that we're sitting here?
2:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna kind of go through the little lily pads as to how you and I ended up here.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: So I had one Jackie Mahan from the Awesome Company on my show, and she just her name has been coming up very frequently.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I've been talking about her a lot.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: So she's a she's a connector, she's a great human being, wild and wacky, Jackie Mahan.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And when she was on the show, she said the word pig six billion times because she has pigs and she loves pigs.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I decided let's do a giveaway and allow people who are listening.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Whoever comes into my DM with the right number of how many times she said pigs wins a gift certificate to the awesome company.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Lo and behold, your boss Amanda.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening, Amanda.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: She's definitely the numbers person.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, how did she do that?
3:06
SPEAKER_01: She said pig 88 times.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, ding, ding, ding, you win.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, wait, who is this Amanda?
3:12
SPEAKER_01: And what is Freedom a la carte?
3:14
SPEAKER_01: So this is the beauty of the show, right?
3:17
SPEAKER_01: So I was introduced to Freedom a la carte via that experience, reached out to Amanda, sat with your team, and I'm like, wait, I can't believe there's such an incredible organization right in our backyard.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: How do I not know of Freedom a la carte?
3:33
SPEAKER_01: So my goal was and is to just kind of be the town crier for Freedom a la carte and what you guys are doing in Columbus and the surrounding areas.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: And so here we are.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing that you had that contest.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Also, I knew she had won a contest, but she did not give me those details.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I need those details.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: That is priceless and definitely fits who she is.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: And are you still listening to my show, Amanda?
3:57
SPEAKER_01: She's we have a live studio audience here today, too, for those of you who do not know.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: So I'm speaking to Amanda directly.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Are you still listening to the show?
4:04
unknown: Oh, I sure do.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Damn straight you're listening to the show.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so more about freedom a la carte.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: So because a lot of people right now are saying, well, what is freedom a la carte?
4:12
SPEAKER_01: So do you want to define freedom a la carte?
4:15
SPEAKER_01: I think that you should probably tell me what it is, as opposed to me trying to fumble through it because you clearly live it every day.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: I do live it.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: And every now and then still fumble through it, to be completely honest.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: We are an ever-changing community to serve survivors of human trafficking.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: So we're we are a nonprofit social enterprise.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: So we have a catering business and we have a cafe that's right downtown.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: The address is 123 East Spring Street in Columbus, Ohio.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: And so we offer services to survivors in a in a lot of different ways.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: We have a workforce development program, and so they can come in and work with us for up to two years.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: So they're gaining workforce development skills.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, they're gaining something to put on our resume.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: They're also working with a specialist to help with professional development in general.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: We also have a community of butterflies, we call them butterflies, survivors of human trafficking who have been connected to freedom.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: We offer a lifetime continuum of care.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: So if they want to be with us for any amount of time, they can be with us.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Um there's a couple qualifying things, which you have to be a survivor of human trafficking out of a life for up to for six months or longer.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you identify as an addict, you have to be sober.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: So we do offer a safe, sober community.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: This is the definition of human trafficking online.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: So human trafficking is a crime that involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to compel someone to perform labor or engage in commercial sex acts.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: And you said except for minors, because you don't have to You don't have to prove the force, fraud, and coercion when it comes to minors when it comes to sex trafficking.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: You do still have to have those elements when it comes to labor trafficking.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So your personal experience, let's start with that, because you're, I think, the a perfect example of how someone can be in a situation that seems so dire and then come out the other side and be an inspiration for other people.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: So it's like so badass that you're sitting here.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate you saying it that way.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: The reality is like I'm a part of that.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm a part of why I can sit here and be like the face of badasses.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: But the reality is I needed, I needed a community to help me with it.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Because, first of all, human trafficking is elusive.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know I was being trafficked.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think we'll probably talk about that a little later.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: How it sometimes takes years to even be able to truly understand that I was trafficked.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And so that's like a whole component that's challenging and elusive.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So I needed someone to wrap around me, help me to identify the symptoms I was having, what to do with those symptoms, like the trauma responses, even my drug addiction, even issues around having a child, like all these issues.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I needed like a solution for all of those problems to become whole again.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And only then did I start to see how I was trafficked.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like bizarre how the process works, and it's gonna be different for everybody.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but often people don't know, even know they're trafficked.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: So you start doing drugs, that addiction starts to become deeper, darker, scarier, more intense, where you're like, okay, I need drugs.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: You meet someone, they're like, hey, I can get you some drugs if you do X, Y, and Z.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Is that how it started for you?
7:03
SPEAKER_00: So it's actually more than that.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: It actually started when I was four or five years old, and someone was creeping into my room and he was doing things to me that shouldn't happen to anybody ever.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: So my trauma started early on.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, my addiction, my drug addiction came a little bit later.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Could be a result of untreated trauma, could be my environment is full of drug addiction and chaos and domestic violence and sexual childhood abuse, and then drinking and using other drugs was like my solution for that stuff.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Then at some point in time, I crossed this invisible line into dependency to where like I cannot exist without it.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And then a trafficker comes along, a predator comes along and sees that vulnerability.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, I'm gonna offer this person drugs only if they do these things.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: And because I'm so dependent in every way, I follow him.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Like false promises, love, drugs, shelter, food, like all of the things just to be able to survive.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not even that I was like having a good time partying, which happened in my teenage years, but later on, I'm just trying to be able to function.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: I want my bodily fluids to be under control.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: I want my brain to slow down.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to eat a meal.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Like that's like the level of power a trafficker has over someone when they're using their drug addiction against them.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: It's wild to think that it's someone that you would think in the form of like a boyfriend.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: But really the manipulation and the calculation and like for you to be like the light, you you don't even see it happening.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: How many traffickers would you say that you had?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: I can identify three, but I want to tell you that um I was devastated when I came to the realization that the person that I loved was trafficking me.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: And again, that was years after I'd been away from him, because everything I thought I knew was totally different and and completely wrong.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: So like I couldn't believe in myself anymore.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't believe in what you were saying to me or anybody else because my foundation of this world had been shaken.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So my trust in people and especially in myself was completely gone.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: So even if somebody good and healthy was in front of me, I can't tell the difference.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: So that's a real challenge when I'm trying to build relationships with humans in general, when I'm trying to have self-sufficiency and wholeness within myself and just to move forward in my life.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's why that wrap around peace and community is so important and people that won't give up on us and give us a give us some time to be messy and to be inappropriate and to be angry.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Like give us some time to work through that and still be there with us.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I'm trying to also wrap my brain around when you're four and five years old, and that I mean, you should be safe and protected and coveted and loved.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Playing.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: And for you to have that type of violation so young, I just it makes for me where you're at right now even that much more incredible.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: I it just and to think that that actually happens, and it does, it happens to people, you know, and so of course you have a hard time.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure today, as you're sitting here, trust issues and trying to, you know, I mean, that's a one brick at a time, right?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: One excruciatingly hard brick at a time.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: I was uh I was I was able to work with someone the other day, a survivor of human trafficking, and she was just talking about how hard it is to just the anxiety is so real and all the time.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was talking about how I was in catch court.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: I was, I was in, I was a participant in catch court, and Judge Herbert asked me what my win was for the week.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And my win was that I could take three steps down the street and not look over my shoulder.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: That was my win.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And when I look back at that, in that moment when I had said that to him, it was almost like a cool, like, look what I can do now.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: But when I look back now, almost 15 years out of the life, I look back and think how sad that is.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: How sad it was that that was my win.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: 27 years old, 25, 26 years old, my win was that I could walk down the street and not look over my shoulder.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Like recovery from the stuff is hard and it takes time and it takes us to have grace for ourselves and really some understanding about what has happened to a person so that we can really get to the root of each symptom and really help someone through it.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: That's why this is so great.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Why we're here together is so great and why I appreciate you inviting us.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, of course.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm the lucky one here.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: That's that might be true.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, when you went to jail, was it the the last time you were in jail?
11:22
SPEAKER_01: That was sort of how you were able to break free from this vicious cycle.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: But then you had said, I said, thank God for jail.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And you said, but but we need to do more, we need to do better.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: There needs to be more support and resources, and hence, you know, freedom all a carte.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: But another thing that you told me that was just, you know, just kind of shines another light on how incredibly elusive and challenging this is, is, you know, you had mentioned finding letters from one of your traffickers and how years later, why don't you tell that story how hard it was to still read those?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to set up a ping pong table in my garage.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Just a simple thing.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Simple day in the life of today, whatever.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: I go and I'm trying to clean out the garage, and I'm and I pull out these boxes, I'm trying to get rid of stuff, and I find these letters that my trafficker wrote me while I was in jail.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, this was six months ago, could have been eight months ago.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: I can't do time well, but this year, and I still couldn't throw the letters away.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: What?
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, that is so crazy to me.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: So I still have them.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, like I'm sitting here with you, rational, but fairly calm, and knowing that's not normal or okay, and still can't get rid of them.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, is that trauma bond?
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Probably, probably trauma bond at its finest.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, how crazy.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: In Stockholm.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Stockholm.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: We talked about that.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a real thing.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: So do you think you'll ever get rid of them?
12:42
SPEAKER_00: I would have thought they would have been.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: I honestly I think they should have already been gone, but I don't know what I'm stuck with.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
12:49
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a reminder for you.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a thing that you know, I don't know, that you just need to keep.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Your guess is the same.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe one of them is as good as mine.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
13:00
SPEAKER_01: One day, you may be like, what's her name in that movie where she sort of burns all the um how Stella got her groove back?
13:06
SPEAKER_01: One day you might just find yourself outside.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Somebody might just trigger you, you might just start burning those letters.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: I might.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: You get out of jail, you end up how did tell me from when you left the last jail term.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: How long were you in the last time?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Five and a half months.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Five and a half months.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: So it forces you to get clean.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: But then you could just go right back into that cycle.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: What was different?
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's a few different factors.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: I was like the walking dead.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Like when I went to jail this last time, I knew I was meant to die.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Like I was not supposed to stay alive.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: My mom had taken my son, and um, she absolutely should have.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be forever thankful for her to for doing that because I couldn't keep him safe.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and she could.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm grateful to her.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had this just unbelievable emptiness.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: And so Catch Court actually was just starting when I went to jail this last time, which was in 2009.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: I actually spent my birthday and my son's birthday, which are back-to-back September 19th and the 20th, um, back-to-back birthdays in the suicide cell.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: What is Catch Court?
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Catch Court is an anti-human trafficking specialized docket at Franklin County Municipal Court.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a two-year program.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's changed a lot now since I was there.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of like emphasis on autonomy and and absolutely love the direction it's going in.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I was there, well, first of all, there was no hope for me.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: So catch court was my first glimmer of hope.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: And while I was working through some felony stuff in a different county, um I was ready to quit.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: I was ready to give up, do my time.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Athens County was looking to send me to prison for a long time.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and Catch Court called them up and was like, we have a program that's we think she'd be a great fit for.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: They originally denied that request and then they called back and tried again.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And so thank God they were persistent and did it twice because the second time my fountain felony judge said, okay, let's give her a chance and we're not going to um have any grace for her.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: If she messes up at anything, she's going to prison.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: So, like those little moments of just a little piece of hope, which I have never ever had.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: I've never seen anybody recover.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't know that I should recover because I just believed I was meant to, like, I deserved what I got.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm such a terrible person.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I abandoned my son, couldn't take care of him.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing right by any humans at all, including myself.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to kill myself, like just a total mess.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: So that little glimmer of hope just kept me going just long enough to hear some truth because I didn't know the truth.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: So it was just long enough to hear some truth, which opened the door a little bit to start to be able to see humans as being somewhat good, maybe not all evil.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: I can't exist in this world when I think the whole world is evil and out to hurt me.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And I also wasn't good.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like a part of the pool of like negativity and bad things.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's just I guess that was it.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Was there a person in Catch Court or someone that you remember being particularly pivotal to help you walk through like toward the light a little bit?
16:03
SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Um so Judge Herbert is well known now.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh Catch Court's well known for the most part.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Judge Jody Thomas oversees Catch Court now, she's well known.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Um but when I first started Catch Court, it wasn't well known.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: So Judge Herbert was not my like, oh, he's gonna help me with like he's a judge on a bench, and we don't talk to the police and we don't talk to judges.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And so like he wasn't my moment of like, I got this or or hope.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but his staff was.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: That was a huge piece, is the people he had on staff, which was like Cece and Chinequa, which you um I know you don't know those names, but um, if they happened to hear, I would love to let them know that I still think about them and still use the gifts that they had given me.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but also when I first was being introduced to Catch Court, uh, when I came out in handcuffs and shackles uh and a lice cap because I had lice.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Not proud of this, but the reality is it's rough out there.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: And uh I got some prison questions.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I I we're gonna so I'm looking forward to it.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Um so I walk out into the middle of the courtroom looking like that, and I'm totally full of shame and I have no idea how to feel feelings because I've been high for many, many years.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And um, the people in the room that were in catch court, there was like four or five people were people I was just on the street with like months before, and we thought they died.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: We're like, where did this person go?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Like they must have died somewhere.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, they were in court and they had some light in their eyes, and they had a little bit of a smile, and they were in court like on purpose.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: And so they were saying things to me like, like, this is a better way.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: You deserve this way.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: We also understand why you want to go back to your trafficker.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, they would say boyfriend, not trafficker.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, so like that little piece of connection and understanding was just that, just enough to keep me around, you know.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: How hard did he fight to keep you back in the darkness?
17:49
SPEAKER_00: So he would uh oh, the trafficker.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um once once we have a community and we don't have as many vulnerabilities, the traffickers can't even touch us.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they could they could touch us in the sense of like really chase us down and hurt us.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Most traffickers want the vulnerabilities of people, but we currently have people that we know that are like hiding from traffickers because they just got out of prison.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, things like that.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: So that's a very real fear and real need to find safety.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, my traffickers were are very much like she's not vulnerable anymore.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I saw him one time and I was riding my bike through an area that I was really I knew not to ride my bike through, but I was trying to be normal and be tough.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I can do it, it's not gonna control me, and blah blah blah.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I saw him and it rocked me for weeks.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Rocked me for weeks.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: So he hasn't done much, but I can tell you, I see him everywhere, even when I don't actually see him.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I see him everywhere, every single day, still to this day.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Like every single day I'm looking for him.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Every day I see him until I see the face and I'm like, okay, it's not him.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Every day.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: And I've been doing all and I'm not even like afraid.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think I'm afraid of him um anymore, but I still I still look for him.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: But I really still want to know right where he's at.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Because he's the one, as I'm talking to you, I'll tell you what's happening to my body right now, is I feel it on my chest and it and I feel it like I'm feeling emotion, a sense of like um feeling trapped because I'm feeling what I felt with him.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: And I he can't get me like that today, but he definitely had me like that before.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: And the way that he would control me is by not letting me know right where he was at, not letting me know his next move.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And he would say the words, I'm gonna dog you, bitch.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And when he would say that to me, I knew it was coming, but he would never let me know when.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: So like I would just be waiting for it.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And when he'd said those words, it was it was for sure coming, and it would be the most vicious beatdowns in the worst of ways in front of people in the middle of the daytime, in the middle of the street, and do really ungodly things to me with like people around.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So when I say the world was dark, like they were right there next to me and did nothing.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: That was how it felt.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And I had no hope.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: So, like, he's just this evil person.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: So, when I look for him, I'm looking for him to like just know.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: I look him up on our um our community website, our city website.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: It's called Courtview.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Anybody can look up people.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And just to see if he's in jail, I do that at least once a week.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Can you breathe more when he's in jail?
20:23
SPEAKER_00: I thought you were telling me to breathe.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's a great idea.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's breathe right now.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Actually, let's do it.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Great idea.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Would you would you want to see him in jail?
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Because I'd want him, I'd want to be like, okay, he's behind, like it would make me probably feel not that you feel like he's gonna come for you, but I'm always there anyway.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: The extent that I can understand this, I mean, the trauma of remembering that, like those words from him and knowing what's coming, and then the life you have now where you're like, please don't take this away from me.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you, you, you want to trust that everything is gonna be okay, but my God, it wasn't okay.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And I have no other, I have no other memories with him of like maybe it's okay.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: But I'll tell you what I'm really looking for, and I'm just gonna expose how like dark I can get sometimes is like I'm really looking for someone to say he's deceased.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not saying I want to like go kill him.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't want it, I really don't want bad things to happen.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: I just want I want this gone.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Like I want it to be gone.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: And trauma bond is so interesting because I have that side of me, which is very regular, but every now and then my head will be like, but maybe he's recovered.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Like it matters, like it doesn't matter if he's recovered or not.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: We do go talk, have a conversation with him.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Go have coffee.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Go have coffee.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: No, no, but before I knew what trauma bond was, those thoughts made sense.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: The thought of like, maybe I should just go see.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Let's go see if he's okay now.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he's better.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Why not have a conversation if he's better?
21:48
SPEAKER_01: The manipulation.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:50
unknown: Yeah.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: So when you were in catch court, then you started to see you started to see a path forward.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: And then where did Freedom a la carte play?
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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23:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, first the path was very short.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't see very far because I very much was still like having no idea how to live in this world without using, without this old lifestyle I'm trying to let go of, the people, like who are my people gonna be?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: What am I gonna do for fun?
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Like who who am I?
23:31
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: So I had to I had to frame it in a way of like I'm kind of like a blank canvas, and that we're just gonna figure out what this picture is.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I share with other people is like I'll ask them on a regular basis, what do you do for fun?
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
23:45
SPEAKER_00: What are you about?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: What's your thing?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: You know?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And they'll be like, I have no idea.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that is perfect.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: You're a blank canvas.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: So just a little piece of like, it might be tough being 40 years old, just coming out of the life and having no clue who you are, but also you're a blank canvas and you get to choose who you are.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: That's actually a great analogy.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a gift.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: And so Ketchcore provided that little bit of uh a vision into a future that didn't involve death uh and so or didn't involve like beat downs and you know, but I didn't know what it was gonna be.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So I really was just doing day by day.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: I like you were saying that one break at a time is very much like that.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: And so as time went on and I started to learn how to live in this world, like then I could see a little bit further ahead and a little bit further ahead, still never really making plans, still never really dreaming.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I've been out of life for almost 15 years, and probably two or three years ago, I realized that I don't dream about the future.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: And then I started thinking, oh gosh, what would happen if I did dream about the future?
24:47
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: So we had like this whole meeting.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: It was really um, I was trying to qualify for a dream scholarship through She as a Name.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: And there's a session that you do that's like, tell us what how you're dreaming or what your dream is that we can give you money toward a dream.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And I could not come up with a dream.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I sat through the session and everybody's doing their own thing, and I didn't do anything and I didn't apply for the scholarship because I couldn't dream.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know that.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that I wasn't dreaming, I was just trying to survive live.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And so then I started dreaming and started to like look in at different things.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, so Freedom A la carte comes into Catch Court as a partner because Catch Court was about four and a half, five hours long because the more it grew, and we were figuring out I was a participant, so they were kind of figuring out what catch court should look like.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: We realized that we got to feed these people, we're keeping them this long.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: We got to feed these people.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: And so that's how like Ketch Court came in and provided food, volunteers to create a meal and bring in so we could just break bread together.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we create relationships that way.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And so we would just eat food and talk, and it wasn't pressure and it wasn't court and it wasn't treatment, it was just eat food and talk about things.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: And then we had this mentality that, like, if you're not doing right in your life, like we are going to give you some time to tell on yourself, otherwise, we're gonna talk about it.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it wasn't to be punitive or to shame.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: It literally is like, I care so much about you that this needs to be, we need a solution for this.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: And in when it's in secret, it's dark and it festers in a negative way.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: So if we can put it out there, see what happens, you know.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: So that was like our mentality.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think there's some of that that still happens today where they're looking out for each other.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's that was magical to me.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: That was everything.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: When you were struggling and and on the right path and like you know, putting one foot in front of the other, how much was getting your son back sort of like this thing that kept you focused?
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I would love to say.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Or was it it was not, it wasn't and I'll tell you why.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't believe that I should have him.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: I hurt him and abandoned him and put him in situations he should have never been in.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: My true belief in myself is there's no way I should ever be in the presence of my son again because he doesn't deserve to have a mom like me.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: That was my belief.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: But my community would say things like, Well, let's just go to court and see what happens.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: So they would never say, Let's go get custody.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: That's the right thing, because you're the mom and you should have custody.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Your mom shouldn't have custody.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: But I couldn't hear that.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: So they knew not to say that to me.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: They would just say, Let's just go to court and see what happens.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So I would go to court we several months apart, one after another, just going because there's an appointment, there's one a court date on the books, and I would go, and um about a year and a half later, I finally had the notion, like maybe, maybe I could be his mom.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: And he was going on three, I think, like something like that.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: So he's still little.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: And I was and I had that thought, maybe I could be his mom.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: So he was coming to visit throughout that time.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like one day every other week, and then one weekend every other week.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it was uh visitations were really spread out and and and grew very slowly.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: But I have so much complex trauma.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I needed that space, and as much as like Don't Love to share, like it was actually exactly what I needed was to not have him.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: I think that is why our life is sustainable today, is because that foundation was was built on a real solid ground when it comes to dealing with trauma and drug addiction.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And how in the heck do I parent at all, let alone sober?
28:15
SPEAKER_00: In addition, as he grows, he embodies my first abuser.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: So now he's activating me in ways that it are really challenging and not his fault.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: It's not his fault.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: It's his uh it's the reason's fault, it's the person's fault.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: So I always try to make sure I keep the blame and the the attitude or the avoidance or whatever to myself and work through that with the counselor.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's not for my son to carry, because it's not actually his fault.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, there's just in, but had I not had that foundation, I I don't know what today would be like being activated in my own home, you know.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Well shit, now that you say it that way, because I'm thinking a three-year-old under the best circumstances is really hard.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: So I'm picturing you like you're you are you are like treading water just trying to figure out all this stuff.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Then you got this three, and you're like, all right, I love you, kid, but like I got some shit to figure out before that makes total sense.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: I want to give it that my mom is not gonna ever hear this podcast.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: She's not a podcast person, but I do owe her so much because she was so patient.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Never once, and not everybody's in this circumstance.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes people who have custody, we either don't want to ever give custody back or want to take them back right now.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And my mom was right in that middle ground where and she literally would say, even when I was in the middle, I was on the phone.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I'll never forget.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: I was on the phone, a jail call with my mom when I first heard my son's first words.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: I was on a jail call and I was on the phone crying to mom, saying, like, make him forget me.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: That was my words to her.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: And she makes a book of pictures of me and gives it to him.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Like she's like, I don't think so.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: But I meant it and I was sobbing when I said it to her because I was I was so hopeless.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: I said, Make my son forget me.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hurt him anymore.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: That was my my real hope.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: And she wouldn't do that.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: So then she just kept saying, You're sick, you're gonna get better.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: You're sick, you're gonna get better.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's what she carried the whole time, no matter how long it was, no matter what my attitude was.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: She always kept that.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: That was the as soon as you get better, he's you get him.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: As soon as you get better, as soon as I got better, she gave him back.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And we had a perfect transition.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Like she would be there for the visitations, and those were tough sometimes because he would get hurt, like to stub his toe or something, and like run to her.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but I'm right here.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: But like we had to allow that process, and so that was like my mom did a great job there.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and how complicated is all of this because when you were four and five, you're you were in your mom's care.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, how much baggage does she carry knowing that these terrible things happened to you?
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And when did she find out?
30:53
SPEAKER_00: She first found out when I was 21 years old and I was completely drunk and was like, This is David, or this guy did this, or blah blah blah.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: And um and she like heard it and didn't quite like nobody around could really take that as truth because I was just a train wreck and had been for a long time.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: But I was definitely telling the truth.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: So then I get sober a few years later, and a few years after I get sober, I go to my mom and I have this conversation with her, totally sound of mind, and she believed me and went into a depression.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: And she was just I didn't mean for that to happen.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: And I did go to her out of anger, thinking like, why couldn't you protect me?
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Like how and then there were times that I battled with, did she actually know?
31:36
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe she knew, but then like listen, she was on Kalanopin in 151, which if you've never done that, don't do it.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a blackout every single time.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: 151 on its own.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: It was it's bad.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Nobody should do that.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: So, like, if I look back, I can see how it is possible she didn't know.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: And I'm landing and choosing to live in she did not know.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, so we have a relationship today.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I couldn't her, the way she handled the situation with your son.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's it's a mother's love.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: However, imperfect.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Is jail like a JV, like where it's like it's not as you weren't looking over your shoulder for someone to like am I watching too many set me straight here on jail.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: So jail, first of all, is Jackson Pike here in Columbus and one of the worst jails in the country.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's awful, absolutely awful.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: And always 100% of the time, know you're not safe.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Even when fights kick off in the dorms, like you, if somebody does try to get a uh guard in there, um, you don't get them for 15 minutes.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: The fight is done by then.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: People are bleeding by then.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Um there it's like you walk this fine line of trying to just kind of fly under the radar.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and but also not crawling before others because you're in jail and you can't just, you can't just be like, I you shouldn't say that to me.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Like it's you don't have trauma competency in there.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and I've watched many fights, I've been in many fights.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, also the facilities in general, like we had a sewage come up out of our floor, and we all had to grab our stuff and get up on the picnic tables, and then we had to clean it up.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure that's not okay.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, what are you gonna do about it?
33:21
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do about it?
33:21
SPEAKER_01: It's our home.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: There's a pecking order too, right?
33:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know who the boss is, and then you kind of had to play all that.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: It's like survivor, but in jail.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's been times I've been in dorms where that wasn't really the case and it was kind of calmer and people were okay.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: But most of the time you go in and it's like you just gotta be ready for anything and be strategic at all times.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Like at all times.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: And that comes from, or that could be looking like um being careful about what you get on commissary, like not to get too much, or make sure you have enough to go around, or know who the right person is to have in your corner.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, or just whatever you gotta do to survive.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Like it just depends.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, coffee is a huge commodity in jail.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: So um, if you can trade your coffee for something, that's nice.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but not me, because I'm the one that wants the coffee.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: I work at freedom.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: How do you sleep?
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, today.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Like literally.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Like how do you are you a good sl I I ask this because I picture you in jail and I picture the sleep had to be horrible.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what?
34:25
SPEAKER_01: And and just the trauma, you're constantly fight or flighting, and you're so now today in this world that you live in, is it easy for you to just like go into slumber or are you is that do you have bad dreams?
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Do you because I know for me when I lay, sometimes when things get really still, that's where thoughts can creep in.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Most of us have certain some challenge with sleeping.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would be one of them at times.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: And there were definitely times where it was real consistent and it gets exhausting when you have one day after another where there's not like solid sleep or going into REM because of your up and down or nightmares.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I often have nightmares and that it's really a bummer because when I wake up from those nightmares that are connected to trafficking or trauma, um, I don't just wake up and be like, okay, thank God that was a thing that was a nightmare.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Like when I have other nightmares that like falling or the elevator falling or whatever, like I can wake up and be like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm good, it's fine.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: But those other ones like carry with you for the day.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's tough to just move forward because you're exhausted in general, but also the memory of carrying the memory.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's tough.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: But so now you've been with freedom now what?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: For how many years?
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Forever.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: So I actually started with them.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it started to talk about how they came into catch court and they brought food, but they also brought mentors.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And then it's and mentorship is has been a game changer for me personally, and it was really what opened up some doors to like humanity for me, for good humanity.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: And um, and then there was an identification of a gap in employment for people who are in catch court for multiple reasons, criminal record being one of them, also having like not having any employment or legal employment for years.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So finding a job was really challenging, plus the criminal record and trauma responses.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: You're having body and mind responses constantly.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of hard to just be at work all day and just grind through.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Like people were having a hard time staying employed if they got employed.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: So Freedom identified this as a problem was like, let's buy a food cart, like actually a food cart that was shipped around Columbus to sell food off of this cart to give us jobs.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: And that's where my first job in this new life, coming from the old life, began.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So I was on the food cart, still working, um, I still was in catch court for a period of time.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't in there very long.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: I was graduating catch court and I went and started working for freedom.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And so there was like four or five of us that was working for freedom.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was tough because it was not a lot of money for for really hard work, but also like learning to cope with even just the body pains that come from doing the work.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: And we're not on drugs anymore.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: We can't go have a drink to relax and decompress.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Like we have lost that luxury.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: So it was just about learning how to navigate all of that.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Plus, we put our bodies through so much when we're out there.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, my last run out there, I was awake for eight days straight.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, talk about psychotic.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: And then my body was just like it was just terrible.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So, like, then I go to jail, gain 50 pounds.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: So now I'm coming out of jail and I literally can't fit in any clothes, don't have any clothes, I can't walk very far.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just out of shape, and then I'm going to work.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So, like the there's some challenges in there.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: So to have an employer that understands some of this is really helpful.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: It's really helpful.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: So, how beautiful though, for you today to be able to see other people who are going through this and to be sort of a shelter from the storm and to be their mentor.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a true gift.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's a gift for me.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it they might like it and appreciate it, but for me personally, it's uh it's a fulfillment that I didn't expect to get.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: And I worked for for freedom on the cart for about nine months, or give or take.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: And then I was told to put my resume in at the prosecutor's office.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know if you know about the prosecutors, but they have put people in jail before.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: And they so my co-workers had literally put me in jail.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: So that was the beginning of my career, and that was a a journey that I definitely would not have done if people didn't tell me to do it because we don't talk to the police.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: The popo.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: We don't talk to the po-po.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: So so I was I was just like going through the process with people mentoring me and reminding me that I'm good enough and capable.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, don't get me wrong, I had no idea what these attorneys were saying.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Like they have a whole different language, and I could barely like function.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: So I had to go to my, I found like I identified a couple of trusted people, and this is what I share with people in workforce development or anybody that wants to listen really.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, find those couple of people who are safe people that I can ask really stupid questions to, that I can go to and I'm like, I've asked this seven times and I still can't lock it in.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I need to go to that safe person to do it again.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: And I had a couple of those at the prosecutor's office because they were identified like I could identify them as safe.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: There may have been other safe people, but I couldn't see them because they had that label of like people we don't talk to or whatever.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, so then they would help me process through that.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: So I worked in the intake division where I was working with the community, and that's where my gift was was being able to relate with another person who's going through a hard thing, like a hard time.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: And so I would gather their information, take it to the prosecutor's office, who may or may not have put me in jail.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And then let's just forget about that little detail.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: It's just those like nuances that are just so bizarre and interesting to work through.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: And I would go back to catch court and I would go to freedom and I would just be like, I do not belong there.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, You're there for a reason, keep up the good work, and like ship me back.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: And um, and I was there for about six years, and then I became the bailiff in a courtroom for Judge Paul Herbert, and I did all of the docket.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: So I did catch court, but I did all of the docket Monday through Friday, and then I worked with all of the Judges.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: So really it's it's a really trusted position in the courthouse to be the bailiff of a courtroom.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: And that is unbelievable.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Like those those moments are like, like if someone can trust me like that, I want to keep that trust.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I would, I would work really hard.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: And I had very similar challenges of like, I don't belong here and um and finding that safe person and things like that.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that all worked.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And and I stayed until he retired, and then um I was stayed with another judge for a little while and then came back to Freedom Alucari.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: So I've been with freedom to answer your question 10 minutes ago, was that I've been with freedom for over a decade in some capacity, um, been connected to him.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's been um it's been a gift for me to just watch freedom grow and to watch how someone can pivot.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Even like when COVID happened, like food places were shutting down, but freedom didn't.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's because we're really great pivoters, we're problem solvers, we're gonna get out there and figure it out.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: And it it was all because we didn't want our survivors to go without.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Like that's where the drive was.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, we want freedom to make money and and all the other things, but like if freedom drops, these survivors have nobody else.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: So like that was like the driving.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, another thing, like, you all been through some shit.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: You're like, business is nothing.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: Like we running a business.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: What the we're gonna do that with our like blindfolded, right?
41:21
SPEAKER_01: You're a bunch of badasses.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: And I will say, so when I went to freedom, I didn't even, I wasn't expecting I didn't know what to expect when I walked in.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: It is the cute so for anyone out it's listening.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: It is the cutest nook of a cafe.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: It's very light and airy when you walk in, very welcoming, so clean.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a cute little place to have like breakfast or lunch.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: What's the address?
41:45
SPEAKER_00: 123 East Spring Street in Columbus, Ohio.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like literally right there.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And so when I walked in, I was like, how did I not know of this little like miracle of the space?
41:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that space was really thought out.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just found in that perfect condition.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was really thought out and through the lens of trauma competency, which is like, what would a someone that's gone through the hardest thing?
42:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, what how can we create a space that they could walk into and feel safe?
42:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's the windows, it's the lights, it's the plants, it's the palette, it's all the collar palette.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, and from someone coming in just dumb off the street, it's just it's so well done.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: So, so well done.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: What about the catering component?
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you guys cater to like what anyone, or is there like can anyone call and say, I need you want want to c you to cater my event?
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, there might be some restrictions, but that's not the area of like marketing this out.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: I feel like oh yeah, anyone.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
42:38
unknown: Anyone and everyone.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Anyone and anyone and everyone.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: That's what I meant to say.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Um specific niches or like any like this thing in particular that you usually are drawn to.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: Is it more breakfast, lunch?
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Do you do dinner?
42:50
SPEAKER_00: No, breakfast and lunch, box lunches, okay.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Like charcuterie boards are really, really great.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we do like we do sandwich platters and charcuterie boards, and we do box lunches.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: I think box lunches is our niche, I think.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, all of it's beautiful and amazing, and everybody raves about how great the food is because it's not just about creating a space for survivors to be able to heal and grow and be employed, which is definitely a foundation, but it's also we wanted them to be really proud of the food that they're putting out.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's like we want a menu, we want some catering boxes that are like that someone's gonna put together and be like, you know what, our community loves this.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Like when we get caterer of the year, which we have multiple times, I don't know if you saw, um, like that's because of the food that our people are putting together.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: And it's really, really great.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I know there's a lot of ears out there who uh are responsible in their workplace for ordering lunch for their lunch and learns and all these, you know, things you guys are doing within your company.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: So let's put Freedom All Cart on the docket, shall we?
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love it.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: All right.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: So we've got the cafe, which I love, and I will be frequenting there more often.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Look forward to it.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: It's on my it's on my list, on my to-do list, catering as well.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be you know using my mouthpiece to get the catering.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: So can you go over again though, for people who want to kind of draw in in more detail what the programs are at Freedom?
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's just let's just before we close out, list those again.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: So the programs we have at Freedom are we have a partnership with Catch Court, we have the Butterfly Continuum of Care, we have a housing program, and we also have our workforce development program.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: So there's more information.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: We can always get that out to anybody that's interested in them because we do a lot in all of them.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and then what's the website?
44:31
SPEAKER_00: FreedomAllah.org.org, okay.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's F R.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, we know how to spell freedom, but there's no E on the end of cart.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: A la cart, no e.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: No e dot org because we were an actual cart.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
44:42
SPEAKER_01: The Google machine just put in freedom a la carte column.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: It will pop up, right?
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
44:49
SPEAKER_01: I just want to tell you.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm very grateful that you came in here and sat.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a very challenging thing to talk about.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: You've been through a lot.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think um you're beautiful inside and out, you're strong, you're brave, and I think you're gonna inspire more people than you know.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Truly.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard to do this, right?
45:08
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to do this under any circumstance.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think um, I don't know, I'm just grateful.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Grateful for you, grateful for Jackie and the pigs that connected us, and that we're all here together.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes, same.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: And if you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: And until next time, if you do know someone or if you are a victim of human trafficking, please call the National Hotline 888 373 7888 and keep moving.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: You did so great! You were such a you were such a