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Transcript

With Great Power #300... 22 Panels with Kayla E. · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to 22 Panels. My guest today, finally, we've been working on this for a while, is Kayla E, who,
• 0:12
  Tad Eggleston: put out one of the best books of last year, Precious Rubbish, and
• 0:17
  Tad Eggleston: I think I even put it in my top 3 nonfiction. Because, yes, I'm calling it nonfiction, even though you kind of made it fiction. You know, it's always hard with the…
• 0:27
  Tad Eggleston: With the graphic memoirs to know how to categorize them.
• 0:31
  Kayla E.: That's so true.
• 0:31
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly when I have a limited number of categories that I'm willing to use.
• 0:35
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah. I consider the work nonfiction, that's how I typically classify it, so I support your categorization.
• 0:44
  Tad Eggleston: There you go. There you go.
• 0:51
  Tad Eggleston: And how am I gonna start?
• 0:57
  Tad Eggleston: It's both… One of the funniest.
• 1:01
  Kayla E.: If you…
• 1:02
  Tad Eggleston: If you, like… Aren't reading too carefully, and the most heartbreaking, the deeper you dive into it.
• 1:13
  Tad Eggleston: books that I've read In a long, long time.
• 1:17
  Kayla E.: I appreciate that. I mean, it goes along…
• 1:20
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there's a special…
• 1:25
  Tad Eggleston: Birds are hard right now.
• 1:28
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell a story. So, so, like, and Edgar knows some of this, but, like.
• 1:35
  Tad Eggleston: My wife's been dealing with health problems. I'm dealing with…
• 1:43
  Tad Eggleston: Learning how to manage autism in a world that not only doesn't like you to manage your autism, but also is, like, on fire.
• 1:54
  Tad Eggleston: we… I've been missing way too much work, so I need to be looking for a new job, not because they're gonna fire me, but because it's clear that the job is taking too much of a toll.
• 2:06
  Tad Eggleston: we had to buy two cars this week, because they both got totaled all at once. You know, we have friends in Minneapolis, we have family in Minneapolis.
• 2:18
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, on top of all of that, you know, my dog's got butt cancer, and that's our joke at this point, is the dog's got butt cancer.
• 2:26
  Kayla E.: Yeah, that's bleak, man.
• 2:28
  Tad Eggleston: He's… he's actually… I guess he left because he finished licking out my bowl. He's doing pretty good.
• 2:35
  Kayla E.: Good.
• 2:35
  Tad Eggleston: It's… how to put this? Like, we saw the growth and took him to the doctor not because he was, like… he's an old dog. I mean, he's, like, 15 to 17.
• 2:50
  Tad Eggleston: But we took him because we saw the growth.
• 2:53
  Tad Eggleston: And the doctor's like, oh, no, this is… this is… this is cancer, it's spreading fast!
• 2:59
  Kayla E.: Oh my god.
• 3:00
  Tad Eggleston: You know, be… be prepared. So far, he's not showing any, you know, but… but we're, like, aware that that's the thing. But… but, like, I'm… I'm… it's our joke.
• 3:12
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the world is so bleak that we have to joke about it, and the reason I'm telling this story is I feel like
• 3:19
  Tad Eggleston: somehow you captured that in precious rubbish. If you had just written your memoir, people would have been like, how the
• 3:29
  Tad Eggleston: Fuck, is she still standing?
• 3:32
  Kayla E.: It's legit, yeah.
• 3:33
  Tad Eggleston: And I forgot to ask your pronouns, so if it wasn'.
• 3:36
  Kayla E.: Oh, she, her, she, her, yeah.
• 3:40
  Tad Eggleston: How the fuck is she still standing? Much less drawing this?
• 3:44
  Kayla E.: Yeah.
• 3:45
  Tad Eggleston: Having to sit with this. I mean, I know people that the reason they don't do autobiobook.
• 3:49
  Kayla E.: Oh, yeah.
• 3:49
  Tad Eggleston: It's the idea of spending a whole day
• 3:54
  Tad Eggleston: Or multiple days to draw… like, if the… even if it's one page of your trauma, you're having to spend a whole day to draw it.
• 4:03
  Kayla E.: like, visualizing…
• 4:05
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 4:06
  Kayla E.: pain. It's, yeah, it's horrific.
• 4:07
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 4:08
  Kayla E.: Bomb.
• 4:09
  Tad Eggleston: So, so, like… On one level, this book is like, oh my god, how is she, like… upright…
• 4:19
  Tad Eggleston: Much less able to do this, but then you also did it in such a whimsical, home-time cartoon style, that it's like, you have not only shown that you have the ability
• 4:34
  Tad Eggleston: to… to play that gallows humor or laughter, because what the fuck else are you gonna do? But you have managed to capture it in this book.
• 4:44
  Tad Eggleston: Both the horror and the…
• 4:46
  Kayla E.: Whoa.
• 4:47
  Tad Eggleston: We have to find a way to laugh at this. No, it's not funny. I'm not saying it's funny.
• 4:54
  Kayla E.: That's right.
• 4:54
  Tad Eggleston: But sometimes you have to laugh anyway, and the way you set up this book actually captures that.
• 5:01
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 5:03
  Tad Eggleston: I thought there was going to be a question here, and there isn't entirely, because mostly it's like, holy fuck, Kayla, this is a masterpiece for those reasons, to capture that level of essence.
• 5:17
  Tad Eggleston: It's not even something I think most people would think to try for, much less…
• 5:21
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:23
  Tad Eggleston: achieve.
• 5:24
  Kayla E.: I am so grateful for what you just said, yeah.
• 5:28
  Tad Eggleston: So, if I'm making it a question, it's like, how…
• 5:31
  Kayla E.: Yeah.
• 5:32
  Tad Eggleston: How did you decide to go about telling the story in this way? Was that actually the goal, or the happy accident of, this is the only way that I can do it, and not wanna, like…
• 5:43
  Tad Eggleston: Throw my head through the window, possibly attached to my body, possibly not, every 3 or 4 hours.
• 5:50
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I… there's definitely, yeah, I got a lot to say. That's an excellent point, and an excellent question, because I look at the book, and I wonder the same thing. To me now, it feels like it…
• 6:06
  Kayla E.: is no longer mine. Like, since sharing the work, it has become my reader's, it's become their story, little Kayla has become their child selves.
• 6:17
  Kayla E.: Like, this book has literally taken on a life and an identity of its own that feels really separate from me. And that's a completely different place than where I was when I was writing it.
• 6:27
  Kayla E.: And the way that I see it is, like, I still don't…
• 6:31
  Kayla E.: I don't even really fully recognize the book. Like, how did this come to be? How did I make these decisions? How did I get this to work? How did I make this insane…
• 6:43
  Kayla E.: Piece of art.
• 6:44
  Kayla E.: And I think that, like, a couple of things in retrospect, I'm able to see sort of, like, all happened at once. I was at this, like, very particular crossroads in my life.
• 6:53
  Kayla E.: Where, one, I, I was inebriated for the majority of my time writing this book. I was in active addiction, bottoming out for my addiction. I wrote it in secret.
• 7:05
  Kayla E.: So I wasn't thinking about a readership, I wasn't widely publishing it. I was literally making comics as an attempt to make sense of what happened to me.
• 7:20
  Kayla E.: Like, while I was living in my abuser's house. So I'd graduated from college, I'd thrown away all my visual art, I was an art major in undergrad.
• 7:30
  Tad Eggleston: That last part is the… my dog had butt cancer.
• 7:33
  Kayla E.: Yes, exactly.
• 7:33
  Tad Eggleston: While I was living in my abuser's house.
• 7:37
  Kayla E.: Yeah, no, it's absolutely horrific. It's like, I call it, it's like, I had this hideous sparkle, is something I've called it before, where it's this, like, tormented urge to create, despite
• 7:51
  Kayla E.: like… Any sense?
• 7:54
  Kayla E.: It makes no sense. It's painful to do it. I'm not in a position to where I should do it. I don't have the language for what I'm doing. I don't know what the hell is going on, but I'm just saying yes to this urge.
• 8:05
  Kayla E.: And so the context was, as I'd mentioned I threw away all my art in college, I moved back into my, bio dad's house, like, in the childhood bedroom that I was abused in, and I wasn't allowing myself to make physical art, because I didn't think it… I deserved the space that art took up, and I had no money, so I couldn't buy art supplies.
• 8:24
  Kayla E.: So I had my laptop, I had Adobe programs, and I was drawing comics, pen and ink, totally in a traditional way, like, I had, like, my favorite nibs and giant swath more pieces of paper, I mean, totally like a traditionalist.
• 8:39
  Kayla E.: And I had these programs, and I was like, alright, I guess I'm gonna let myself draw comics digitally, because it's free, it takes up no space, and I can keep it a secret. And so I drew… the very first page of Precious Rubbish I ever drew was actually page 2 of the content of the book, so after the word search.
• 8:58
  Kayla E.: This one here, where a little Kayla dies by suicide, that was the very first page I drew of this body of work, and it came out fully formed. Like, the color palette? Done. The character design? Done. The font choice, everything, the logo.
• 9:14
  Kayla E.: It was almost like… like a… like a…
• 9:18
  Kayla E.: disgusting, divine miracle, if you know what I mean? Like, I… and I felt it when I drew this page. I was like, oh, this is something. I just created something. And I just continued to work on it, like, as my life got worse and worse and worse and worse, like, this was…
• 9:36
  Kayla E.: my creative outlet, because again, I wasn't allowing myself to make art in any other way, and so I would, like, draw precious rubbish, and then, like, close my laptop and take my bio mom to a doctor's appointment.
• 9:48
  Kayla E.: And so, like, contending with that was just, like, impossible, and so I think that it… probably the work… the making of this book fueled my alcoholism and drug addiction.
• 9:59
  Kayla E.: But again, like, I didn't even know that I was a survivor of incest. I didn't know that I had an, I was an alcoholic or an addict. I didn't even think I had that bad of a childhood, to be honest with you. I just was, like, experiencing acute symptoms of complex PTSD, and I had no idea.
• 10:16
  Kayla E.: And this is sort of what that looked like with a… for a person with no tools but artistic tools, and a love of comics, and an understanding of sort of, like, the magic potential of the form to, like, investigate the human experience, because I'd totally fallen in love with the medium. And it's been amazing that, like.
• 10:34
  Tad Eggleston: It's a great medium.
• 10:35
  Kayla E.: It is a great… it's the best medium. It is.
• 10:38
  Tad Eggleston: Hands down.
• 10:39
  Kayla E.: Hands down!
• 10:40
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: If I could jump in?
• 10:42
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 10:43
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: So, I mean, first of all, it's… one, it's an honor to… to have this conversation with you. I believe we met over at the Ohio Crossroads.
• 10:51
  Kayla E.: Yes, that's right, yeah. Yeah, I met you and your wife and your sweet kids.
• 10:54
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yes, yes, yes, so it was… it's…
• 10:57
  Tad Eggleston: He now has a comic shop, so the next time you're in Chicagoland, you need to do… you need to do a signing.
• 11:03
  Kayla E.: Dude, congrats, that's so cool!
• 11:06
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Love to have you. So, first off, the book is fucking amazing. It is an amazing book. Like I think I told you in person, it's inspiring, even for my own past, which one day… one day I'll put pen to paper, if I have the courage that you did, to do so. With that said.
• 11:23
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: One, the first part is, the title in of itself, Precious…
• 11:27
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: rubbish, you know? At one point, I'm gonna ask a lot of questions, and whatever you're comfortable telling, please, please do. But the title in and of itself, to me, was very prolific, like, just profound in that, what that means, you know, the idea of rubbish, something that you throw away, and it was just like, wow, that interplay with words was just amazing.
• 11:43
  Kayla E.: Mmm.
• 11:43
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: But more importantly was the context of the body of work that you did. It had this kind of…
• 11:50
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: it was this clinical exercise, or would I even say a therapeutic exercise, that you kind of walked us through, and I thought it was amazing, because it's something I would do with my students or whatnot, so I thought that was just amazing. But the thing that really blew my mind…
• 12:05
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: was how you presented, or how… and again, I don't know if you had intent, or it's just a good visualization of what you were experiencing, the fragmented self of PTSD, like, how the memories were up, and it was just like…
• 12:20
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: I've heard some people try to read it and go like, well, it's confusing, I didn't get how… and I'm like, no, that's the fucking beauty of it. It's… you can see… you can see how it's back and forth, like, how the mind works when it's going through…
• 12:32
  Tad Eggleston: Drama is confusing? Exactly.
• 12:34
  Kayla E.: Disorienting.
• 12:36
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Or the memories of it are so fragmented, so it's back and forth, up and down, so it's just like… and that's what I mean by, you know, you walked us through a therapeutic exercise, like, you were…
• 12:47
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: doing that, you know, I don't know, you know, about your personal history or whatnot, but you were doing and walking through a therapeutic exercise of how that trauma is for you. That back and forth, those memories coming into play, putting it on paper. It was…
• 13:00
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: it was amazing, like, it was just amazing. I mean, and it was… it was courageous, it was raw, it was tearful, it was…
• 13:07
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: painful, but it was like, okay, let's look back and laugh at how this is. It was an emotional journey, to say the least, and I thought that was amazing. In the end, the reclamation of rubbish, the reforming of your identity, you brought us to that journey, that walk of, you know, like, I'm something that's not of value, but I am something of value, and that journey was just fucking amazing, like.
• 13:30
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: respectfully, I just wanted to hold you and hug you, like, oh my god, like, that's fucking… you're like, oh, wow, like, it was… yeah, I mean, I can't speak more highly of it, it's just…
• 13:39
  Kayla E.: Thank you.
• 13:40
  Kayla E.: Thank you. Yeah, wow, I, yeah, I have a lot to say. I'm so glad that you were able to, like, gain that experience from the book, because I think that, like, that really is…
• 13:51
  Kayla E.: the thing that makes it special, in my view, is that it allows the reader to have an embodied experience of what it's like to be a survivor of trauma. Like, and to me, like, the way that… that wasn't not a conscious… I didn't, like, architect that.
• 14:07
  Kayla E.: I just was a survivor of trauma, writing about my trauma, and this is how, like, I was…
• 14:12
  Kayla E.: going through, like, later on, so the first, like, 8 or 9 years of writing this book, I had no resources whatsoever, and I had no language for what happened, but eventually, I got sober, I came out as a lesbian, I moved away from my bio family, and I started going to therapy.
• 14:27
  Kayla E.: And so at the first, so I went to two rape crisis centers, and then I started seeing a private practice therapist.
• 14:33
  Kayla E.: And so at the first crisis center in a small town in South Carolina, which is where I was living, I started getting language.
• 14:42
  Kayla E.: I got… my therapist was able to help me understand my bio mom's potential diagnosis. She was able to diagnose me with CPTSD. She was able to say, like, gave me the language for what body dysmorphia is. Like, I was in recovery, so I knew I had addiction.
• 14:57
  Kayla E.: But, like, once the self-medication was gone, all of this insane shit started coming up, and all of that was, like, going into the work. So I was, like, remembering things, like, as I would recover, my memory would change. I would see different parts of an experience.
• 15:13
  Kayla E.: And I would just make the work where I was. Like, there's this real earnestness, I think, to precious rubbish, and that, like, it really was an ex… like, an honest exercise in trying to get close to the truth.
• 15:25
  Kayla E.: And, like, utilizing this form, like, trying to morph it and stretch it as much as possible to, like, understand myself, and trying to make sense of things I don't remember.
• 15:37
  Kayla E.: And I think that I'm so grateful when readers like you are able to see that and feel that, because I really do think that that's the strength of the book, and I mean, it's like…
• 15:48
  Kayla E.: really hard-earned, you know? Like, it just was, like, fucking torture to get there. And it wasn't something that I, like, you know, had some master plan for how to do it.
• 15:59
  Kayla E.: But I'm really glad that I think that… and so, in retrospect, I'm able to see that… so I'm a Christian, and I converted a few years ago, and so I really practice sort of like a… like a mystical form of Christianity. I'm not, like… I don't identify as, like, any particular tradition. I'm not a literalist. It's…
• 16:19
  Kayla E.: my sort of lens to access the divine. But I say that because I look back at my time writing Precious Rubbish, and I really can see my higher power working through me to write this book, like, against my better judgment.
• 16:33
  Kayla E.: Like, I think that that pull that I feel to make art, it really is, like, the god of my understanding, like, using me as a tool to create something for other people. Like, this book, like, this book…
• 16:48
  Kayla E.: I see this book as a mirror. Like, I built a mirror for my reader, and I didn't even know it, like…
• 16:55
  Kayla E.: it's like… it's like the idea of, like, God being a power greater than myself, like, I kind of feel like art is a power greater than myself. Like, I almost don't even feel, like, ownership over this work, because the impact that it can have on readers is, like.
• 17:11
  Kayla E.: It's absolutely astounding. Like, this… the little Kayla character, like, my readers have told me that, like, she is a vehicle for themselves, and when they feel that urge, like you mentioned, to, like, hold and comfort little Kayla.
• 17:25
  Kayla E.: They're wanting to hold and comfort themselves. Like, I really didn't want to create something that ended up feeling like, like, was trauma for shock value, or was just like…
• 17:39
  Kayla E.: put, like, exploiting my child self, or exploiting my pain, like, I think that I really was hoping that by sharing this work, that it would perform as a mirror, and I would be able to, like, reach my hand out to people I don't know, who I'll never meet, and be able to, like, meet them.
• 17:59
  Kayla E.: And they'll know that they're no longer alone. And, like, with the readers that I've met, I know that I'm not alone. In my most, like, specific and alienating moments of trauma, I've had readers tell me, this is me. You wrote about me. And, like, that is…
• 18:14
  Kayla E.: I cannot ask for anything better from publishing this work, from deciding to share it. It's been…
• 18:20
  Kayla E.: It's been really extraordinary.
• 18:23
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Absolutely. The courage that you demonstrated was extraordinary. It just, yeah, I mean, I was… I'm at a loss for words sometimes when I sit back. I re-read it a few times, and it's just like, every time, it's still a different journey.
• 18:38
  Kayla E.: Hmm.
• 18:38
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Trauma really does come out, and it helps kind of…
• 18:43
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Awaken some of those ideas and fears, and, and…
• 18:47
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: and anger, a lot of… which, ultimately, anger is just pain, so it brings out the pain. But we're able to project it and put it onto little Kayla, and just kind of go, like, hey, you know, let's, you know, it's, yeah, it's an amazing, it's an amazing piece of work. It's an amazing piece of work. If you're ever in Illinois, we'd love to have you here, like, that… that's just…
• 19:05
  Kayla E.: Hell yeah, thank you! That's so good to know! I appreciate that.
• 19:10
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Amazing, just amazing work.
• 19:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and the other thing is, we have the most square footage, Of any store in Illinois?
• 19:18
  Kayla E.: Whoa!
• 19:19
  Tad Eggleston: There's plenty of… plenty of space to, like… do stuff.
• 19:23
  Kayla E.: That's so cool!
• 19:25
  Tad Eggleston: You don't have to be in a corner signing.
• 19:28
  Tad Eggleston: You wanna do a workshop?
• 19:29
  Tad Eggleston: I'll set you up.
• 19:31
  Kayla E.: Okay, that's amazing. I have a really good workshop. We got a workshop coming later this month.
• 19:35
  Kayla E.: Later this month? Alright, we'll talk, we'll talk.
• 19:37
  Tad Eggleston: Darya Faruhar is doing… doing a workshop for us.
• 19:41
  Tad Eggleston: On the 22nd.
• 19:42
  Kayla E.: She's doing a non-fiction… a non-fiction comic…
• 19:45
  Tad Eggleston: Workshop.
• 19:46
  Kayla E.: Badass! Okay.
• 19:48
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, cool!
• 19:48
  Kayla E.: Very cool!
• 19:49
  Tad Eggleston: Dave?
• 19:50
  Tad Eggleston: So, so yeah.
• 19:52
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, if I had my way, I'd just have, like, a big fan of graphics party at the store at some point. I mean, it is your 50th birthday, so, like, if…
• 20:00
  Kayla E.: True!
• 20:01
  Tad Eggleston: If they're looking for a place outside of Seattle to have a party.
• 20:05
  Tad Eggleston: And they're willing to pay to get people there, because, like.
• 20:09
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think Dr. Ramos is that rich.
• 20:13
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Our hourly rate was high.
• 20:16
  Tad Eggleston: That's true! I mean, if he wants… if he wants to say that he's willing to rent out a hotel and fly people from all over the country for the Phantographics 50th…
• 20:26
  Tad Eggleston: That's on him, but I try not to speak for his money.
• 20:30
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Let's talk. I do have a lake house that we can, we can host several people at.
• 20:34
  Kayla E.: It's so cold.
• 20:36
  Kayla E.: Oh, you guys are.
• 20:36
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's your birthday?
• 20:38
  Kayla E.: It's Phantographics 50, 50th.
• 20:40
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, Fana Graphics is 50 years old now.
• 20:43
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 20:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so they're kind of celebrating that all year.
• 20:48
  Tad Eggleston: See, I'm your event coordinator. I think about this stuff all the time. Even the stuff that feels like it's pie in the sky, I think about it. And sometimes it comes out of my mouth.
• 21:00
  Kayla E.: I love it! I mean, that's how you make shit happen, you know?
• 21:03
  Tad Eggleston: So those people listening, this is thinking out loud, don't desperately watch the calendars and then come back and say, you said there was gonna be a party! I did not say that there's gonna be a party. I said it would be wonderful if there was a party.
• 21:17
  Kayla E.: It would be wonderful.
• 21:21
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Kayla, what's next for you?
• 21:22
  Kayla E.: So I'm already working on my next book, it's well underway. I just won, Creative Capital Award for this next book. It's called I Will Give You Rest, and so I've got, like, really significant.
• 21:35
  Tad Eggleston: Rest?
• 21:36
  Kayla E.: I will give you rest.
• 21:38
  Tad Eggleston: West?
• 21:38
  Kayla E.: Rest.
• 21:39
  Tad Eggleston: That's allowed?
• 21:40
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's some…
• 21:42
  Tad Eggleston: Edgar, I think this is a book that you should read.
• 21:49
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: One day, one day, when I actually get right.
• 21:51
  Tad Eggleston: He owns two comic shops, a psychiatric practice, and is the dean of psychology at a university.
• 22:00
  Kayla E.: Wow, dude.
• 22:01
  Tad Eggleston: I don't… I don't know when he breathes.
• 22:04
  Kayla E.: That's astounding.
• 22:06
  Tad Eggleston: And his kids and wife still seem to like him.
• 22:08
  Kayla E.: Yeah.
• 22:09
  Tad Eggleston: Tell me about it.
• 22:12
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: She's a great wife. I wouldn't do what I do without her, to be quite honest.
• 22:16
  Kayla E.: Very cool. She's very, very cool. Yeah, I liked her a lot.
• 22:20
  Tad Eggleston: She's amazing.
• 22:21
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: So…
• 22:22
  Tad Eggleston: Her brother's pretty cool, too.
• 22:23
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: So, merchandise for Kayla. You know, have you ever thought little Kayla dolls, and…
• 22:28
  Kayla E.: Mmm, I would love it. I would love it so much. Yeah, I actually… I don't know if you can see behind me, but I've got Chris Ware, Quimby's the Mouse here.
• 22:37
  Kayla E.: I've got, like, a little Jimmy Corrigan vinyl figurine in a glass case that I'm looking at, but I'm a merchandising fiend. I absolutely.
• 22:48
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you know, Chris Swear's a Chicago guy.
• 22:51
  Kayla E.: That's true, he is!
• 22:52
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't met him yet, so you'd actually have to connect us, but…
• 22:55
  Kayla E.: Very sweet.
• 22:56
  Tad Eggleston: But it's another reason to come to Chicago.
• 22:58
  Kayla E.: That's so true, yeah. Yeah, he's definitely, like, one of my all-time favorite cartoonists, and probably one of my biggest, you know, top three influences as a cartoonist, but I really, really, really love merchandising. When I first started out as a cartoonist, I had
• 23:14
  Kayla E.: some little comic book characters that I had come up with, and I'd made little wooden dolls
• 23:20
  Kayla E.: out of them, of them, and then I'd also made plushies of them, like.
• 23:23
  Kayla E.: So you really, you tapped into…
• 23:25
  Tad Eggleston: This is actually… that's very Chris Ware.
• 23:28
  Kayla E.: It is, yeah.
• 23:29
  Tad Eggleston: There was… there was a… Comics in Chicago exhibit at the…
• 23:35
  Tad Eggleston: the Museum of Contemporary Art a couple of years ago.
• 23:39
  Tad Eggleston: and the Chris Ware part of it.
• 23:41
  Tad Eggleston: Had all the models that he builds himself.
• 23:44
  Kayla E.: They're so cool. When he's…
• 23:46
  Tad Eggleston: Making his comics.
• 23:48
  Kayla E.: Yes, I've had the chance to see some of those in person, too, and they're, like, they're awe-inspiring. Yeah, very, very, very beautiful objects.
• 23:56
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, what made that a crazy experience, and I, I, like, it's not often that I really hope that an exhibit will, will come back.
• 24:05
  Kayla E.: Mmm,
• 24:06
  Tad Eggleston: But, but… And I want to say it was…
• 24:10
  Tad Eggleston: I want to say it was, like, just after the world reopened with the pandemic. Okay. There were… there were joint exhibits in Chicago, because at the Museum of Contemporary Art, you had
• 24:24
  Tad Eggleston: like, a history of Chicago comics from, like, 1965 onward. So you had, like, a lot of the… the underground scenes, into the first comics, into Chris Ware. Emil Ferris had unpublished pages from the second volume of… of…
• 24:43
  Tad Eggleston: My Favorite Thing Is Monsters was on, you know, you know, there was exactly one section that you weren't allowed to take pictures, and it was because Emile Ferris lent unpublished pages from Volume 2
• 24:57
  Tad Eggleston: Of my favorite thing.
• 24:59
  Kayla E.: response.
• 24:59
  Tad Eggleston: to the.
• 25:00
  Kayla E.: Crazy.
• 25:01
  Tad Eggleston: But at the same time, at the Chicago Cultural Center.
• 25:06
  Tad Eggleston: they had a history of Chicago in comics up until 1965 that was curated by Chris Ware, that was all the comic strips and whatnot that, like, from the first half of the century.
• 25:21
  Kayla E.: Wow, you're so lucky that you live…
• 25:24
  Tad Eggleston: Please.
• 25:24
  Kayla E.: Somewhere so incredible.
• 25:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, there were two cra… there were… until the first time I got to the Billie Ireland, it was, like, the most comic geekdom I'd ever gotten to do.
• 25:34
  Kayla E.: Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I could totally see that. That's extre… yeah, I live in a little town in North Carolina, so we've never had any kind of Chris Ware exhibition here, or anything!
• 25:47
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 25:47
  Kayla E.: whatsoever. I think I'm probably the only cartoonist in my county. But yeah, that's, that's extraordinary. I'm, yeah, I'm.
• 25:54
  Tad Eggleston: Which county are you in?
• 25:56
  Kayla E.: I live in Alamance County, that's what it's called, yeah.
• 25:59
  Kayla E.: Don't look it up, you're not gonna find anything you like.
• 26:02
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I…
• 26:03
  Kayla E.: I love it here!
• 26:05
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think Lisa's from, from North Carolina. One of my partners here, I think he's from there. I gotta ask him about it.
• 26:11
  Tad Eggleston: If you're gonna be North Carolina or South Carolina? No, I ask because, andrew Iden.
• 26:18
  Tad Eggleston: lives in nowhere, North Carolina, too.
• 26:22
  Kayla E.: Yeah, what city is he in? I love it.
• 26:24
  Tad Eggleston: I forget the city he's in. The way I always figure it out for him is he lives, like, 10 minutes from Batcave. Did you know that there is a unincorporated town in North Carolina called Batcave?
• 26:40
  Kayla E.: No, I'm gonna take.
• 26:41
  Tad Eggleston: Yes.
• 26:42
  Kayla E.: I'm guessing there's a bat cave there?
• 26:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah, it's not named after Batman.
• 26:48
  Kayla E.: But that would be awesome. Yeah, unincorporated community… oh my god!
• 26:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:53
  Kayla E.: Okay, he's by Chimney Rock!
• 26:55
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 26:57
  Kayla E.: Wow, very cool! Oh my god, I'm so thrilled to know this!
• 27:02
  Tad Eggleston: So, how far is that from you?
• 27:04
  Kayla E.: Let's see…
• 27:06
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: I mean, we got Metropolis here in Illinois.
• 27:08
  Tad Eggleston: We do. We do.
• 27:10
  Kayla E.: Let's see, I don't have.
• 27:11
  Tad Eggleston: They have a big Superman statue.
• 27:17
  Kayla E.: Alright, to Batcave… That can't be… oh, that's walking. I'm 71 hours walking, but I'm only a 3-hour drive.
• 27:26
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, okay.
• 27:27
  Kayla E.: It wasn't bad for North Carolina, I mean, it's a pretty white state.
• 27:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Kayla E.: Very cool. Well, see…
• 27:33
  Tad Eggleston: there's at least… I mean, he's not the cartoonist, he's the writer, but…
• 27:37
  Tad Eggleston: And I know Sanford Green's down there somewhere.
• 27:40
  Kayla E.: That's right.
• 27:40
  Tad Eggleston: Brown is in North Carolina, I think, another writer.
• 27:45
  Kayla E.: Yeah, there are quite a few HeroesCon Indie Island people. Do you guys.
• 27:49
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 27:49
  Kayla E.: HeroesCon?
• 27:50
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't yet, it's… it's…
• 27:52
  Kayla E.: You have, Edgar?
• 27:54
  Kayla E.: It's my favorite.
• 27:55
  Tad Eggleston: It's on my, my, my, my very short list.
• 27:59
  Kayla E.: Oh, you should go, yeah.
• 28:00
  Tad Eggleston: I wanted to go last year, and things got in the way.
• 28:04
  Kayla E.: Hopefully not.
• 28:04
  Tad Eggleston: And I want to go this year, but it depends on whether, after buying two cars, I feel like I can afford it.
• 28:11
  Kayla E.: That is so legit, yeah.
• 28:14
  Kayla E.: But it's my favorite.
• 28:16
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's definitely a good time. So we present nationally at CONS on psychology and,
• 28:20
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: And, comic books and comic books, but I haven't presented at HeroesCon, so that is…
• 28:26
  Tad Eggleston: So this is what you need to do.
• 28:27
  Kayla E.: Programming!
• 28:28
  Tad Eggleston: I just figured out how I can go to HeroesCon. You…
• 28:33
  Tad Eggleston: And Kayla can be on the panel that I moderate.
• 28:37
  Kayla E.: 100%.
• 28:40
  Kayla E.: I'm all about programming at HeroesCon.
• 28:42
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yep.
• 28:43
  Kayla E.: It's.
• 28:44
  Tad Eggleston: We're gonna have to talk more about this.
• 28:46
  Kayla E.: That would be really fun.
• 28:47
  Tad Eggleston: I have 4… 4 panels at C2E2 this year. It's the first time… it's the first time I've ever applied. I applied for 5, 4 got approved, including the batshit crazy. I am so excited about this. I applied to do what… what I'm calling Cool People Talk About Comics.
• 29:06
  Kayla E.: That's amazing!
• 29:06
  Tad Eggleston: Where essentially what I said was, like, the proposal was, we're gonna do one of two things, but now I know which one. So what we're gonna do is, we're gonna project either short comics or scenes from comics.
• 29:19
  Tad Eggleston: Have, like, dramatic readings from
• 29:22
  Tad Eggleston: I've got a couple of Chicago actors involved, but I'm gonna get as many of the creators that I know into that room on it. I mean, this is not gonna be a panel of 5. If I have my way, it will be a panel of 50. And it will be completely…
• 29:34
  Kayla E.: weird.
• 29:35
  Tad Eggleston: And it will be completely, like, audience interactive. We're gonna read this, and then whoever wants to grab the mic and say why it's awesome.
• 29:46
  Tad Eggleston: does so. That's amazing. Whether it's a career…
• 29:49
  Kayla E.: Wild idea.
• 29:49
  Tad Eggleston: or somebody from the audience, or whatnot. It got… it got a mid-afternoon Sunday slot, which I think is the absolute perfect timing.
• 29:57
  Kayla E.: Oh, yeah, that's a good spot. Yeah, it's private real estate.
• 30:00
  Tad Eggleston: You know, because I think some of the creators are going to be more likely to want to grab it, because they're like, oh, wait, this is an excuse to shut down my table an hour earlier than I might have.
• 30:13
  Kayla E.: Oh, God, yes, we're always looking for those opportunities.
• 30:17
  Tad Eggleston: We can go celebrate the medium and then leave.
• 30:20
  Kayla E.: And then leave, and go the fuck home. That's the best part of any con.
• 30:25
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, I couldn't… I couldn't believe that they approved that. You know, that was my total shot in the dark, let's see how crazy can I get, and it was one of the first ones approved, and I'm like.
• 30:37
  Kayla E.: Good for you.
• 30:39
  Tad Eggleston: Now it's…
• 30:39
  Kayla E.: Tell me how it goes.
• 30:40
  Tad Eggleston: just writing emails, like, anytime a guest is announced, it's like, okay, I know that person. Hey, do you want to join us for…
• 30:49
  Kayla E.: That's so cool.
• 30:50
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: So, Kayla, I have a question for you, talking about pants. So, if you had to give someone advice, or give, you know, anyone advice on, putting down to paper and pen, their fears or their work, what advice would you give them, and how you… and the process that you did to get there?
• 31:05
  Kayla E.: I would… I would definitely say, first and foremost, to take care.
• 31:09
  Kayla E.: and to go slow, and to not do it if it doesn't feel safe. I'm in no way… I don't advocate for being a martyr for my work. I try to steer young people away from that idea. It's something that.
• 31:24
  Tad Eggleston: You mean being a starving artist is not something we should… should…
• 31:28
  Kayla E.: -
• 31:30
  Tad Eggleston: aspire to.
• 31:31
  Kayla E.: -
• 31:32
  Tad Eggleston: Kayla, what kind of capitalist are you?
• 31:34
  Kayla E.: I'm a girl who likes health insurance.
• 31:37
  Tad Eggleston: Yes!
• 31:39
  Tad Eggleston: Yes! And please, for anybody out there, my comments were dripping with sarcasm.
• 31:46
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know, you just figured me with that. My wife says she married me for the insurance.
• 31:51
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean…
• 31:52
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: That's what she tells me, she's like, you had Blue Cross PPO, that's why.
• 31:56
  Kayla E.: Oh my god, my wife just quit her job, at Vox, where she had, like, literally, like, the best health insurance on the planet. And so now we're on just my Phanographics income, and we've pivoted over to my Phanographics health insurance, which is different.
• 32:11
  Kayla E.: It's been a little different. Our prescriptions are way more expensive, so I have a… that's why it's fresh on the mind, is I really appreciate good health insurance.
• 32:18
  Tad Eggleston: What we should say here, though?
• 32:21
  Tad Eggleston: Is… is you just named a comic company and said the word health insurance, which makes it much better than most comics.
• 32:31
  Kayla E.: Oh, 100%.
• 32:32
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
• 32:35
  Kayla E.: No, I'm not… I'm not delusional by any means, like…
• 32:40
  Kayla E.: Out of, like, the two places you could possibly work doing what I do, you know, I don't count my blessings. Yeah, but .
• 32:46
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I think you can get health insurance at DC if you've got a job that makes it so they won't let you write comics.
• 32:54
  Kayla E.: Wow, that's fucked up. That's certainly not my case.
• 32:57
  Tad Eggleston: Cause, cuz, like, like, cause there, there's…
• 33:01
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm drawing a blank on who. There's this guy that's been on the show a few times that,
• 33:07
  Tad Eggleston: Before he started actually writing comics, he was, like, the DC archivist.
• 33:14
  Tad Eggleston: Like, one of his duties for a long time was they… first, he compiled the list of comics that they didn't have a copy of.
• 33:23
  Tad Eggleston: Then he spent the next 10 years whittling that list down, and it went from, like, 3,000 comics to, like, double digits in the time that he was… in terms of either finding the art, finding a physical copy, whatever, so that they actually had all of their…
• 33:39
  Tad Eggleston: But when he was working for the DC offices, He wasn't allowed to get
• 33:48
  Tad Eggleston: like, because he was… I think he was officially with DC Legal or whatever, but… but whatever… whatever he was with, he wasn't allowed to also write. So his first writing gig, even though it was at DC, it actually came…
• 34:01
  Tad Eggleston: Very shortly after he was laid off.
• 34:06
  Tad Eggleston: You know, when they went west.
• 34:09
  Kayla E.: One of the people that he worked with said, hey, you don't work for us anymore, but you always have great ideas, too, want to write this?
• 34:16
  Tad Eggleston: And he said, hell yes!
• 34:18
  Kayla E.: Yeah, I bet. Well, you guys, I've got… I've got not too much time left before I gotta get back to the… to the day job.
• 34:25
  Tad Eggleston: Let's, let's, let's jump into the important… Closing questions.
• 34:31
  Kayla E.: Yes.
• 34:31
  Tad Eggleston: And we'll just assume that we'll have you back at some point to ask the… the other important questions.
• 34:39
  Tad Eggleston: I've been doing this for a little less than 5 years now.
• 34:41
  Tad Eggleston: And my life has…
• 34:44
  Tad Eggleston: utterly changed in the best possible ways, just from being so wired into the comic community. I feel like I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone.
• 34:54
  Kayla E.: The number of surreal experiences I have.
• 34:58
  Tad Eggleston: The number of… the number of times that I get to hang out with somebody, or text with somebody, or fucking buy two cars in one day that I never would have been able to do if I wasn't part of the comics community.
• 35:13
  Tad Eggleston: Just blows my mind.
• 35:15
  Tad Eggleston: And I find that everybody in this community, no matter how big or small they are.
• 35:19
  Tad Eggleston: has similar stories that are just completely surreal. I mean, Eric… if you haven't been told… if Eric hasn't told you about the con he was at in Italy with
• 35:33
  Tad Eggleston: I don't even remember the art… er, I think it was Peter Bagg.
• 35:38
  Tad Eggleston: Where there was a fake terrorist attack? Ask him to, because it was…
• 35:42
  Kayla E.: Wow.
• 35:43
  Tad Eggleston: Fucking insane.
• 35:46
  Tad Eggleston: But on the better side, you know, like, Matt Wagner has stories about
• 35:52
  Tad Eggleston: Will Eisner and Quentin Tarantino. Paul Pope has stories about walking in the middle of the night with Sergio Aragones in Italy.
• 36:03
  Tad Eggleston: Everybody has a story that's just like, did that really happen? So I've started collecting them. So tell me… tell me one of those things that, like, you just can't believe it's part of your life, and it never would have been if you hadn't devoted yourself to comics.
• 36:21
  Kayla E.: Easy, man, easy.
• 36:22
  Tad Eggleston: I had a feeling yours would be.
• 36:24
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah, it happened in 2025. It was April 10th, I think. I was in Chicago for my book tour. I was at Pilsen Community Books, my event was going to be there, and before… you like Pilsen?
• 36:38
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: My old neighborhood, that's where I grew up.
• 36:39
  Kayla E.: No shit, dude! It's a great shop! I had a fantastic experience there. But beforehand, so Ivan Brunetti was going to be my interviewer, and that was a really big deal, because he's done very few events, like, in his entire career.
• 36:54
  Kayla E.: But I'd been in touch with him and sharing with him my work for well over a decade. And then before that, I was able to have dinner with him, Chris Ware, and my wife. Like, right next to Pilsen is that little vegan taqueria. I don't know if you've ever eaten there, but it was really good. And so the four of us…
• 37:14
  Kayla E.: Had lunch together, and it was one of the most…
• 37:17
  Kayla E.: like, life-affirming. I had that experience where I felt like, am I in a dream?
• 37:24
  Kayla E.: Like, how is… how am I sitting here with… well, first of all, my wife I met on a bus in New York City in 2008, and so literally any time I sort of snap out of the days of everyday life and I look at her, I have that sort of, like, magic sparkle realization of, like, how am I married to you?
• 37:40
  Kayla E.: So I had that… I had that moment with her, and then also sitting across from Ivan Brunetti and Chris Ware, and they were all… they were, like, like, signing…
• 37:49
  Kayla E.: signing the books that I brought of theirs, and then they wanted me to sign their copies of my book.
• 37:55
  Kayla E.: So, like, I'm signing my book for that.
• 37:59
  Kayla E.: absolutely crazy, we had so much fun. Like, it was just, like…
• 38:04
  Kayla E.: we got along like gangbusters, and I'd also been… I've been in touch with Chris for… for as long as I've been in touch with Ivan. He was one of the…
• 38:11
  Kayla E.: the few cartoonists when I was first getting started who responded to my emails and was willing to let me send my really shitty, like, hand-stapled, poorly printed mini-comics when I was just getting started in the early aughts.
• 38:25
  Kayla E.: And he'd been a mentor and a friend and a supporter ever since, and it's the same thing with Ivan.
• 38:31
  Kayla E.: And then at the actual event with Ivan, he surprised me, and oh my god, like, I started fucking crying, man, it was crazy. He pulled out all of the envelopes full of all the mini comics that I'd been sending him since 2008.
• 38:47
  Kayla E.: he'd save them all! And it had, like, my shitty little handwriting, and all the little, like, tacky stickers I put all over them, and, like, my little, like, fan letters to Ivan, and it was just, like…
• 38:59
  Kayla E.: like, I don't have a lot of people in my life who have, like, been here for the long haul. Like, I don't have family, so there are never opportunities for, like, any childhood ephemera to sort of, like, come up for me to ever discover anything new.
• 39:16
  Kayla E.: physically knew about my life, and I think that, like, having this man who has been such a supporter and, like, sort of, like, a foundational figure in my growth as a cartoonist, like, I really, really look up to him.
• 39:31
  Kayla E.: Like, care for me, and care for my work, like, before…
• 39:35
  Kayla E.: before I was anything, I was nothing, I was a nobody. Like, and he treasured and saw something in my work, and, like, that, like, healed something deep in me, and he was such an incredible
• 39:49
  Kayla E.: interviewer, and Chris was in the front row, so… he was sobbing! Because, like, during the interview, like, Ivan and I, like, again, it felt like we just, like, got into this, like, river of…
• 40:01
  Kayla E.: I don't know, but we were both, like, tubing down the same river, and holding hands, and it was, like, it was an incredibly… it was a spiritual experience for all of us involved.
• 40:14
  Kayla E.: And it was truly… that was one of the highlights of my entire life. Like, I went to sleep that night, and I told my wife, I was like, if my life never gets better than it did today.
• 40:24
  Kayla E.: I'm good. And then I woke up to my giant New York Times review, and I was like, what?
• 40:30
  Kayla E.: What is this life I'm living? This is fucking insane. I've literally grew up in the gutter in a trailer park, like, how are these the blessings that I'm counting?
• 40:40
  Kayla E.: Yeah, and I woke up, and I just was bawling my eyes out, because I was like, I don't need… like, I was like, God, like, I'm good, like, I can't believe you're giving me more, like…
• 40:50
  Kayla E.: I have more than I ever could have imagined dreaming for myself. Yeah, so I think I'm still riding that high. I think I probably will till the day I die!
• 41:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah. So, so, Edgar, just to give you insight into how my brain works, my, my, my podcaster.
• 41:09
  Tad Eggleston: fan brain is, like, crying at how beautiful that is, and my event coordinator brain is going, if we pay for Kayla to come out, we might get Ivan and Chris Ware, too.
• 41:22
  Kayla E.: That's fine, because they don't live far.
• 41:25
  Kayla E.: Because they already live here. You never know. You never know.
• 41:29
  Tad Eggleston: We might be able to pull a 3 for 1.
• 41:32
  Kayla E.: That is so funny. I have a speaking agent now, and she is a tough negotiator, so…
• 41:38
  Kayla E.: Gotta save up on that button.
• 41:39
  Tad Eggleston: Pay you?
• 41:40
  Kayla E.: Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's got a really high minimum set for me now. I just signed with her, because I signed with an agent too, a literary agent for.
• 41:47
  Tad Eggleston: You're cool, Kayla.
• 41:48
  Kayla E.: I know!
• 41:49
  Tad Eggleston: There's no money in.
• 41:50
  Kayla E.: I know, she knows…
• 41:51
  Tad Eggleston: charge the universities.
• 41:53
  Kayla E.: I know.
• 41:54
  Tad Eggleston: comic shops.
• 41:55
  Kayla E.: Contractually, though, every single speaking gig.
• 41:58
  Tad Eggleston: I know.
• 41:59
  Kayla E.: I have to send it to her.
• 42:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Including this one?
• 42:01
  Kayla E.: But still talk about it.
• 42:03
  Tad Eggleston: Including this one?
• 42:04
  Kayla E.: All speaking events have to go through.
• 42:06
  Tad Eggleston: Huh?
• 42:07
  Tad Eggleston: Yep. So we got under the radar, or how did that go? Because we're talking right now. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Am I going to get a bill from your…
• 42:18
  Kayla E.: No, not like this! No, no, no, no, no. No, public speaking event. She's a public speaking agent. Yeah, no, and all that shit is negotiated months in advance. No, no, no.
• 42:27
  Kayla E.: Don't worry about a thing. This is 100%, like, free for us.
• 42:32
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, okay.
• 42:34
  Kayla E.: Don't sweat it.
• 42:38
  Tad Eggleston: My final question, it's always my final question, no matter how many times you're on the show, I'll ask this question. Tell me something you love.
• 42:47
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably a comic, but we don't have rules. Preferably storytelling, but again, with the rules. But something that you love.
• 42:55
  Tad Eggleston: That not enough other people around you have experienced?
• 42:59
  Kayla E.: Really, really want them to, so that you have more people to talk about it with.
• 43:05
  Kayla E.: Hmm, yeah, I've got one. It is not comics, but it is, it's a book that led to precious rubbish being shared with the world. It's this book by Julia Cameron called The Artist's Way.
• 43:18
  Kayla E.: And it's a self-guided 12-week creative program that I've done 3 times. I'm actually on week 9 right now for the third time, because I'm using it to write my next book.
• 43:29
  Kayla E.: It is, like, I mean, millions of copies of this have been sold, but it's kind of, like, waned, I think, in popularity, because it was written, like, in the 80s.
• 43:37
  Kayla E.: And it was, like, really huge at the time, but I, am absolutely indebted to this book for this sort of, like, every creative, like, resurrection I've ever had in my artistic life. Like, it is…
• 43:51
  Kayla E.: It is an absolutely astounding program that also, like, helped rewire my brain into loving myself, which is a very big thing to say for someone who has had suicidal ideations and severe body dysmorphia since the day I was born.
• 44:07
  Kayla E.: The, something about the, the, the, the structure…
• 44:12
  Kayla E.: the language of the program, the tasks of the program, like, really, literally changed my brain. And I owe, like, everything to it, and, like, the more people who, like, look into this book or try this book.
• 44:27
  Kayla E.: it just… it's life-changing. It's… I'm one of those, like… like, yeah, I will advertise… free advertisement for the artist's Way for the rest of my life. It's… it's extraordinary.
• 44:37
  Tad Eggleston: So… so… just because I… I am a nerd like this, I immediately looked her… her up, and because we were already on…
• 44:48
  Tad Eggleston: on that…
• 44:51
  Tad Eggleston: JAG, I was thinking to myself, how crazy would it be if she was also in Chicagoland? Is she?
• 45:00
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I do not know for certain where she is now. I haven't managed to figure that much out.
• 45:07
  Kayla E.: She's like a movie person, so she might be on the West.
• 45:10
  Tad Eggleston: But what I have figured out is that she was born
• 45:15
  Tad Eggleston: in Libertyville, Illinois, which is where the comic shop that I shopped at before Edgar opened his shop.
• 45:24
  Tad Eggleston: is…
• 45:24
  Kayla E.: Oh my god.
• 45:25
  Tad Eggleston: It's literally between me.
• 45:27
  Kayla E.: That's so cool.
• 45:28
  Tad Eggleston: and work. And I think also where Alex Ross lives.
• 45:32
  Kayla E.: Her book is all about, like, recognizing synchronicity.
• 45:36
  Tad Eggleston: So, so, I'm just saying, like, we might be able to really make this event crazy.
• 45:43
  Kayla E.: She's a… I've always wanted to meet her. Yeah, she's straight up.
• 45:46
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, I mean, we'll just have to throw that in our back pocket and… Yeah, that's… that's crazy.
• 45:56
  Tad Eggleston: Highly recommended. Come visit your family, Julia, and come to our shop!
• 46:03
  Kayla E.: So funny. Edgar, I feel like you, in particular, would be interested in this, in this program, like, from…
• 46:09
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah, no, I'm gonna have to look at this book. I wrote it down, I'm gonna take a look at it.
• 46:14
  Tad Eggleston: This is totally, totally my type of… of thing to look at.
• 46:18
  Kayla E.: It's extraordinary. It really is. It's woo-woo as fuck. Like, it's really woo-woo. It's out there. But, like, you.
• 46:24
  Tad Eggleston: And apparently, she was also married to Martin Scorsese. Yes, that's right. Not for long, but long enough to have a child.
• 46:30
  Kayla E.: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. But, if you just kind of, like, let go of any sort of, like, judgment, or… it's just, it's not, like, cool, if you know what I mean. Like, it's… it's, like, it's kind of humbling, it's, like, cheesy, but it's, like, if you can approach it with, like, a level of, like, openness.
• 46:49
  Kayla E.: and earnestness, there's real magic, like, that could potentially happen, like, within the self. But it's… just recently, like, I'm on week 9, I have produced more paintings than I have since college.
• 47:01
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I cannot stop making art. Like, it's coming out of me at a furious pace.
• 47:06
  Kayla E.: Like, I literally have really bad overuse injuries in my arm, because I'm so angry.
• 47:11
  Tad Eggleston: This is… this is where I say, have you read… do you have Creata Wilberg's book?
• 47:16
  Kayla E.: No, I don't. No, I don't.
• 47:17
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 47:18
  Kayla E.: Oh, yes, because it's about how to have good, like, body, like.
• 47:23
  Tad Eggleston: Draw stronger.
• 47:24
  Kayla E.: Yes, that's right! I've never read it, I gotta look into that.
• 47:27
  Tad Eggleston: You need to get a copy of Draw Stronger.
• 47:30
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's so true. It's available from uncivilized Books.
• 47:34
  Kayla E.: Okay.
• 47:35
  Kayla E.: That's an excellent point. Yeah, I have… I'm, like, down here massaging.
• 47:38
  Tad Eggleston: For that matter, Kreoda is the wife of a friend of mine.
• 47:43
  Kayla E.: Yes, Labsicoria!
• 47:44
  Tad Eggleston: about Bob's great.
• 47:46
  Kayla E.: I love Bob.
• 47:46
  Tad Eggleston: Just been on the show once, so, like, email me your address, and I will buy you a copy and have it sent.
• 47:53
  Kayla E.: It's so sweet! I definitely will.
• 47:56
  Tad Eggleston: Because… Because…
• 47:57
  Kayla E.: That's what I use all day long for my pain.
• 48:00
  Tad Eggleston: Tom Kaczynski, the publisher of Uncivilized, is also a friend of ours, so we're more than happy to send money his way.
• 48:09
  Kayla E.: really nice. I would definitely say yes to that.
• 48:11
  Tad Eggleston: So yes, just email your address, and I'll have a copy sent.
• 48:16
  Kayla E.: That's really generous, thank you. Cause…
• 48:19
  Tad Eggleston: It's… I… I strongly believe that every comic creator needs to own 3 books at this point.
• 48:27
  Kayla E.: Which ones?
• 48:28
  Tad Eggleston: Draw Stronger. Okay. That's mostly for the artists. The writers don't need it as much, though the writers should have it to know what they're putting their artists through.
• 48:38
  Kayla E.: Yeah, that's fair.
• 48:41
  Tad Eggleston: Either… Understanding comics, or the more recent, Cartoonist Club.
• 48:49
  Tad Eggleston: Which was essentially.
• 48:51
  Kayla E.: I haven't read that one.
• 48:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it's Raina Telgemeyer and Scott McCloud.
• 48:54
  Kayla E.: I forgot my cloud.
• 48:55
  Tad Eggleston: As so, like, imagine understanding comics.
• 48:59
  Tad Eggleston: written for the middle grade, with a Raina Telgemeyer story framing it, and that's the Cartoonist Club, and it's amazing. And you get most of the data from Understanding Comics, not all of it, but a lot of it.
• 49:11
  Tad Eggleston: In a really fun form. So, one of the two.
• 49:14
  Tad Eggleston: And then, I would say Shelley Bond's Filth and Grammar, the first of her editing trilogy.
• 49:20
  Tad Eggleston: on.
• 49:21
  Tad Eggleston: is another one.
• 49:22
  Tad Eggleston: Well, if you're sending me your address, you might get that one too.
• 49:25
  Kayla E.: Okay! I won't say no to any of it.
• 49:28
  Tad Eggleston: Shelly is also a friend.
• 49:30
  Kayla E.: Cool.
• 49:32
  Kayla E.: Alright, shit, you guys, I gotta head out. I gotta get my ass away.
• 49:35
  Tad Eggleston: Well, if you need me to, I'll email Eric and say, I'm sorry I kept her.
• 49:39
  Kayla E.: Don't tell him I'm doing this on the clock!
• 49:45
  Kayla E.: Do not…
• 49:46
  Tad Eggleston: What do you mean? You're promoting a Phantographic.
• 49:49
  Kayla E.: What's that?
• 49:50
  Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's been a pleasure, Kayla. It's been a pleasure.
• 49:51
  Kayla E.: Thank you guys so much.
• 49:52
  Tad Eggleston: promoting a Fanta Graphics book, how does this not work?
• 49:56
  Kayla E.: Wow, it's not…
• 49:57
  Tad Eggleston: And you did just say that on the recording, so…
• 50:02
  Kayla E.: Alright, you guys, I gotta go before I dig myself a deeper hole.
• 50:05
  Tad Eggleston: You're fine, you're fine, you're fine. For Kayla E, this has been 22 Panels, we will see you after the next page.
• 50:13
  Kayla E.: Hi, guys.