Latest / Hiking without a stitch / EP. 18 - From Skinny Dipping to Brotherhood: Chad’s Journey of Faith & Freedom

Transcript

EP. 18 - From Skinny Dipping to Brotherhood: Chad’s Journey of Faith & Freedom · Hiking without a stitch

• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going guys?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John, your host, and today's guest is Chad.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Many men grow up believing they need to hide their bodies and suppress their true selves.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens when you let go of all that shame?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: From childhood skinny dipping to nude hikes in the Ozarks, Chad shares how naturism has deepened his faith, strengthened his friendships, and helped him discover authentic brotherhood.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Chad, welcome to the show.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited that you're here.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming on.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're welcome.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's good to be here.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Good to be here.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've been really excited about this conversation.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really like your story, and I'm looking forward to sharing more about it with the listeners.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can you tell everyone just a little bit about yourself and kind of your background and where you're from?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was born in southern Michigan.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I had a family, I had three sisters growing up.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was the only boy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, born and raised in a very conservative Christian home.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um went to the first Baptist church of the town I lived in.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um twice on Sundays, once on Wednesdays.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my all my extended family went to that church.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew all my cousins, um, all my aunts and uncles.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: They all went to that church.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very, very tight community.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um from there I I went to Chicago, Illinois to go to go to school.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I met my wife.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um we got married, we've been married for 35 years, and now I live in southern Missouri.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always really active as a a kid, like in outdoors and running around?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, I grew up in that time where you know, in the summer, um, mom shoved us out the door.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: We came in, we did, I don't even remember coming in for lunch because lunch was served on the on the picnic table out back, and then you came in for dinner.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like we're very nice to see you.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like it, yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: And my my family had had the neighborhood in ground pool.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: There was always just a treasure trove of kids swimming in our pool, even when we weren't there, like there were my mom and dad were the um were the youth group sponsors, so that it was not not um uncommon for us to come home and have youth group kids swimming in our pool.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we so we were the pool.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's awesome.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: With with your background being raised in like conservative uh religious um viewpoints, where did the nudity work in?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where did skinny dipping and that come into?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's so funny because so I remember um I was I am trying to think, I was probably so I was less than 10 years old, so I was somewhere between the ages of five and ten.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um there was uh the church had a program for boys that was very similar to um to Boy Scouts, but it was the it was a church, um met at the church, and we one summer we had a campout um and went on a hike from camping.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: The the um it was extremely hot that day, unprecedentedly hot, and so the leaders decided that they would take us boys over to one of the leaders' houses that had an in-ground pool, and they would let us swim.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we none of us were prepared to swim, and so they just let us swim naked.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: So there was probably like I don't know, 15 to 20 elementary school boys and the leaders all swimming naked.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And this is probably so interesting.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: This was probably like maybe 73, 70, 70, somewhere between 73 and 78.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so it wasn't, and no one thought anything of it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's really my first really remembrance of skinny dipping.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then from there, um, at my own pool, when I was in when I was in high school, whenever my friends and I were swimming and the our my sisters or none of the girls were around, we would not wear suits.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or the shoes would come off, you know.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, it wasn't, yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't a it wasn't, and again, you know, I grew up in this time where you know in in school in gym class, yeah, and after every sport, not only did you shower, you had to shower, and the TE teacher or the coach was there making sure you showered, yeah, you know, and it was a big open, open shower room.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't these cubicles.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was you know, I grew up in a time where it was very it it was very common and no shame.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking, just jumping to the cubicles real quick.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you notice more changing cubicles in like uh fitness areas to change?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, and it it makes me sad every time it's like in fact, um there's a new um uh health men's club and it's that just opened here in my town, and they all advertise they advertise it and push it like it was um going back to men's athletic clubs of of yesteryear.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: And like, oh, that's so cool, that's so awesome.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: So they have a sauna, but then every single shower room is a separate room, not even a cubicle, but a separate six bathrooms in there.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: They have six bathrooms in there that all have a sink, a toilet, a urinal, and a shower.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: That makes no sense, a special.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: That makes no sense.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know, and it makes no sense like financially either.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's an extra that's a huge extra pay and build out.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I just don't get it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it it makes me sad because there's so much when men when men get together, even in intentionally or unintentionally, and and are are naked in each other in front of each other, there's there's so much healing that can take place, you know, and and so much shame and and self-awareness that drops, and get and just I think it's so healthy.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of men, specifically today, are struggling just because we're in a time of social media and we're more connected than we ever have been, but people are more depressed and more lonely, and you know, looking looking for opportunities to kind of change that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and you know, I think you know, we it's just one more society has um really, really said being a man is not a good thing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, talk the with the phrase toxic masculinity, um, the the feminization of the church, the feminization of education.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, unfortunately, there's been a huge generation of boys that have gotten um the the message either overtly or covertly that your masculinity is something to be ashamed of and something to hide.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that they're they're so wrong.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: There's I mean you can't be even further from the truth on that because you know masculinity is is an amazing thing, and and when it's honed and when it's um uh used properly, masculinity can be amazing.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, used used in the proper way, yeah.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: What uh what have you seen kind of with men just generally speaking, when you go out, what are some of the main points that they're they're clinging on to from nude hiking or spending time skinny dipping?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any self-awareness that happens?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah, I there's there's I've actually had people tell me I'm okay.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I've I've you know, I've I I I've thought there was something wrong with me for so long, but in in doing this, I found that I'm pretty normal and I'm okay, you know.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I'm not as far off psychologically as I thought I was.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So jumping back to your story, you grew up skinny dipping.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: How did you end up?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: You moved to the Ozarks, was that for work?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was for my wife's work.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, we were living in um in the greater Chicago area, really like downtown Chicago, uh at the northern end of Lincoln Park, like like in the thick of it, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And she comes home to me and says they want to transfer me to the Ozarks, and I was like, Where?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm like, excuse me, where?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, because I've been, you know, I didn't grow up urban, but as soon as I graduated high school, I moved to Chicago, and yeah, I'm like urban is is my deal.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I you know, um we live pretty center city center um and and in in an urban environment as well.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I was yeah, it was quite the culture shock.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um to go from downtown Chicago to you know the rolling hills and openness of the Ozarks.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I love it now.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: I love the Ozarks.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, in fact, I'm barely home inside my house.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: If if I have time off, I'm out exploring, um just spending time in nature.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: I love it now.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that cool that you get to do that?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, and there's so many places.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we have one of the largest national forests, um, right outside um our town, Mark Twain National Forest, you know, and and there's and then go down to Arkansas, northwest Arkansas, and you know, it the Buffalo River, the Buffalo River area, it's just absolutely amazing.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds awesome.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: When you moved to the Ozarks, we spoke in like pre pre-interview recording about a book that you found that kind of led to your experience of hiking.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to take me?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: How did you find that book and how it played out?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I the name of the book is um um swimming holes of the Ozarks, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I always had this this um this romanticized idea of old-fashioned swimming holes and skinny dipping, probably brought by this that amazing scene in a room with a view.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: If you know the movie, you know the scene.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, best skinny dipping scene ever on film ever.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna have to look it up.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, these um, these, these three guys and and the um the the local vicar decide to go for a bait, and it's in Victorian era, and they decide to go for for a bait, right?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so they're just they're totally just having an innocent of great time in the water, and one of the main characters' fiance and her parents come walking by.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great scene, it's just it's a fantastic scene, anyway.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, so I was like, you know, knowing that there's there's remote places, I'm like, I know there's gotta be great, great places to skinny dip here in natural water.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I found this book, Swimming Holes of the Ozarks.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And man, I started going and exploring and checking checking them off.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then it has a sister book called Waterfalls of the Ozarks.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, two great books.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, there's and and many of them are remote.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Many of them, you know, you have to park and then hike, hike a good, uh, a good ways back to find either the water hall waterfall or the or the swimming home.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the best places, which is, and I'm to do your job, which is what led me into naked hiking.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um exactly.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a good friend of mine and I went out to go.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he's actually a photographer.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he went out to go, uh, we went out to go find one of the waterfalls and and swimming holes.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we got there, and I mean it was I don't remember, and it must have been a five to eight mile hike back into um into this location.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um and we we get there, and I I didn't tell him I was gonna do this, I just stripped down and got in the water, and he was like, Oh, okay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so he stripped down and got in the water.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I had put I put my clothes in in my backpack, and um, and then as we were swimming, it started to rain, just to sprinkle a little bit, nothing like, oh, that's no big deal.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so we were there for a good hour swimming.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: He was taking pictures, he took this amazing picture of me.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, everybody, everybody thinks it looks like uh the um the X-Wing coming up from the swamp in Star Wars.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because it was foggy, it was it was really humid and foggy, and the rain and the all the green lushness of of the forest.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great photo.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then so we were we were pretty much done, getting ready to go.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was still raining, and then it just started downpouring, like raining so hard, and it was like I I I thought what stupid to put my clothes on and get them all wet.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, they're in my bag dry.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm just gonna walk to the car with my bag and my back and get dressed when I get to the car.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a good five, eight-mile hike back to the car, and we both did the whole thing just completely naked, and it was great.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, this is amazing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: This is just absolutely amazing to be hiking like this.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's super cool.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: So, so that was that was my initiation, my baptism, if you will, into naked hiking.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did you after that first like naked hike, did you kind of go, oh man, I could go do more hikes in more spots that are like secluded, or how did that work?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, it was more it wasn't so much naked hiking, it was more going to the to the whole Suskiny dip.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, it that was more my focus.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um the naking hiking hiking kind of came later.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um I did one where I had this book that that I I wanted to read, and I had set aside some time to go hike, and it was it was a spiritual book, and so I actually ended up hiking deep into the woods and finding this amazing pedestal rock that I climbed up on, and like as I was reading it, I just you know heard God telling me, you know, you just need to get naked before me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm like, okay, that sounds amazing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and then and and what the book was saying about creation and and who we are as as um a created being and created in his likeness, just was like, yeah, that's exactly why I needed to get naked and and spend time in this book and and and spend some time in prayer.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was that that really was like, man, this is how we were meant to be in creation.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is it was so um, so it's really a good way for me, and and I even use it now um on my solo naked heights as a good way just to commune and pray and and just really reflect on creation and the creator and and where he has brought me through life and where I'm at now, and just um just a good uh spiritual practice for me.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did uh a lot of people, you know, might have gone on that nude hike from the the skinny dipping spot back to the truck and kind of moved on from it, like, oh well, you know, I checked a box, I got naked, I skinny dipping.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: What what about those experiences like skinny dipping keep pulling you back and and being naked in nature?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: What pulls you back and keeps you like the spirituality of it, the bonding with nature?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you just list a couple of things for me?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: I would say those are the two biggest two biggest things.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, when if I if I happen to have a friend with me that is participating, the bonding there that happens.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I have a really good friend that um I think we've probably swam naked more than we have swam clothed, and we swim a lot, and we're awesome.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and he's he's one of my closest friends, like like literally my closest friend.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um yeah, he's he's a good guy.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's super cool.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: At what point did you like realize on your journey that other people were interested in doing this too and going and experience skinny dipping and being out in nature with you?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um through really through a Christian Facebook men's group.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I don't I you know, I was vulnerable one time, I said this is what I do, and then uh we actually had several guys um uh that that we planned a camping trip with.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we I took them to my favorite swimming hole.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um and there was there was uh probably six of us on that trip.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it was it's a great swimming hole.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I was just curious, you were taking them to your favorite swimming hole.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Was there any fear of like I guess people would call it hot spotting where you're sharing like your really good go-to spot with other people and then you know they come up and ruin it or whatever?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, in fact, I kind of um somebody else just posted a picture of that spot um on a hiking on an Arkansas hiking um page, and I was like, shh, let's keep it a secret.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he was like, too late, you know, and like dude, why would you do that?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, um, you know, and it's funny because the swimming hole there is there is a trail um that runs along the Buffalo River, which is where the swimming hole is at.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And right about four miles before you get to the swimming hole, there's a campground with waterfalls and another popular swimming hole.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, literally, most people who are even doing a through hike or even a day hike, they will stop at that campground and use that swimming hole and waterfalls.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then, like you had five miles west from there, and if you don't know where it is, it's it is down a bluff, like the swimming hole is down abluff.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can't see it from the trail.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of have to know where the where the turnoff is.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and like when you're in this when you're in the water, you can hear people hiking up on the trail.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they have no idea that you're down there, like you cannot see this hole at all, you know.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, and it's it's really kind of hidden.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, the other cool thing about that is um, you know what a slot canyon is?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: You have slot canyons out there?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so the only way to the only way to get into the swing hole is to get in the in the creek and ride the slot canyon down into the and into the creek.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's or into the hole, you know.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: So like like it's really not a popular place.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I'm like, oh, don't tell people, don't publish that on Facebook where it is.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's one of the things I try to be really careful about is not over sharing spots that aren't already shared.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's like nude beaches around here where it's everyone and you Know their grandma knows that there's nude people there.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But there's certain canyons and certain spots where it's like, I I don't think that needs to be shared with anyone.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're just too good.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share it with my closest friends and yeah, exactly.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I shared it with Robert when he came down, but it's like I just I can't stand the thought of people coming in and throwing garbage or graffiti.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: We just recently here in Arizona had someone graffiti a uh uh Native American like monument, um, you know, pick pictographs or um I think that's what they're called.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were like scratching it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So stuff like that just really I I can't stand people being disrespectful.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I can't even stay in careens at all.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like stack, you know, uh, you know, I don't I don't want to see your stacked rocks, knock them down.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: To me, to me, it's still natural.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it still shows that the a human was here.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it still is it's it it goes against the leave no trace, you know, stop stacking rocks.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Please don't stack rocks, and I knock them down every time I see them.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it well and it it changes the it changes the overall experience because you come around a corner and you're like, wow, I'm in some place that no one else has ever been for a while, and you come around and there's a rock careen there, and you're like, oh no, there's just you know you might as well take a spray paint and paint something.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Granted, it's being used used with natural stuff, but yeah, just don't do that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so do you organize your own like groups when you go out?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just friends?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't I haven't in a long time.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um well yeah, we do actually we um I do have one organ is that organized kind of thing.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um we have a monthly on the full moon.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm into rocking uh uh for fitness.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um awesome.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so so we do a full moon ruck and dip every month on the full moon.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it didn't when I organized it, it was totally like we're gonna rock and then we're gonna get in the lake because it'll be hot.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't even know who did it first, but the very first one we met up, we were walking towards the um towards the lake intowards the water, and someone took off their shorts and went in full moon.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's interesting.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, all right.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's okay, cool.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing this.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I mean, so the full moon rucking dips have kind of taken on a double meeting.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's so awesome.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you for the rucks?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how much weight are you carrying when you're rucking?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm carrying any weight anywhere from 35 to 45.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's awesome.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good pack.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it's it's fun.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: How long have you been doing that?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny you asked that because I was just trying to figure that out um earlier today.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like how when did I get my daughter gave me a weighted vest?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um gosh.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say maybe COVID time, maybe so maybe five years, six years.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I ruck every day.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's awesome, man.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: I we have we uh I'm in a third, I we have a Thursday night um rucking group that's a social ruck, it's kids, dogs, families, it's pretty fun.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so cool.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I've done some competitive rucking as well.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then we have the the monthly um ruck ruck and dips.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds really fun.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um what can I have rucked naked?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: But for inquiring minds who need to know, I have rucked naked.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: What uh when you hike with other people, what kind of conversations happen that don't typically happen in I guess clothes settings or or other settings?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it may be because of me and the and the kind of and the people, a couple of the other guys that that um um I I we hike with it's a lot of who we are as God's created, who we were created to be.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of seems to be a lot of spiritual talk, you know, where we're at spiritually, what we're struggling with spiritually.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um one of the guys that that rucks and diffs with us, and I've um um uh have spent a lot of naked time with has a website called Aching for Eden Eden.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Aching for Eden.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's hard to say.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um that is it's about him, his journey, and his wife's journey of how they got into naturism and how that has affected their faith.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um he's he's pretty, he has three books written out now.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um his his naturalist name is Phil Oak.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll throw him in the link.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, in the show notes, yeah, and aching aching for Eden.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so I think too, because of him, um, and I mean he's pretty pretty loud voice in the Christian Nature's um circles.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it kind of tends to go with that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: How long have you been a part of the Christian Naturist?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um probably about three or four years now.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: How does how did your like faith and like naturism through that Facebook group?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you found the Christian Naturist?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't even know how I found it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's one of those things, you know, you know the rabbit holes you go down on the internet, you know, and then and and I don't yeah, I literally don't know how.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm probably from a couple mutual friends, um and really from and it could have been from um the organization organization I I was a part of called the Mankind Project.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think I might have met a couple of the guys that are crossed over from those circles.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's amazing how you know once you get into men's work and once you get into like spiritual work, there's a lot of circles that cross over.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: What uh how's naturism kind of like influenced your relationship with God or changed?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Has your nudity changed your relationship with God?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or your I don't think so.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's changed.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's I think it's enhanced it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: I guess that's the word I was looking for.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Deepened changed, yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't yeah, I don't think it's changed.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's deepened or enhanced.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I that and you know, and I guess let's go back all the way to Chicago and in the Bible school I was at, you know, I the the first like um what I want to say, uh, dive into it was there was this guy on our on my dorm floor, which I was on the seventh floor, and we would take the it was a men's dorm, we would take the elevator up.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: By the time we were to floor seven, he was completely naked and stayed that way until he was leaving the floor.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, interesting.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this was at a Bible college.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like are you kidding me?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it you know, so that was yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's very interesting to me because my upbringing, I was raised in a non-denominational church from a very young age.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: They taught a lot of purity culture, so I got like different messaging from the church about nudity in the body.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really interesting to me that there's a Christian, that there's a Christian naturist organization, and like is there any I don't know, misconceptions or or assumptions that people make about Christians in naturism that you kind of see commonly that come up?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I've seen.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, a lot of the common thread, although this is not my story, but a lot of the common thread, at least with the men that I've known, is that they've actually used um God has used naturism and nudity to break porn addiction.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah, because um, you know, what is hidden is what is wanted.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and and so when it's not hidden, when the body isn't hidden, then it's no there's no mystery there.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and and it it it diffuses the need for lust and the need for desire because you're like, yeah, whatever, you know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I totally understand that because you know, I've been, I I've I've been a pastry chef and I've been in food service all my life.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, I can uh at the end of the day, I can throw trays and trays of pastries away, and people are like, oh my god, how do you not how do you do that?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, it's just the product for me, you know, yeah, you know, there's no meaning to it's not like I've just lust after those pastries because it's and I think that I think a lot of guys that that struggle with lust and porn, once they get into and are comfortable, they're like it it just really diffuses that um and makes it normal, it makes it it's it's just what it is, is what it is.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it become nudity becomes I think there's a the quote nudity becomes insignificant when it's you know seen regularly or whatever whatever they use, but it's really true how instead of sticking nudity up on this pedestal by stripping down and interacting with it in a non-sexual way, it really does diffuse sexuality and like put a porn, a draw to porn, like a oh a hundred percent.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that for myself as well.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just wild that that's one of the things that comes from stripping off and really, you know, facing yourself.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it wasn't it really seems counterintuitive, but it's completely not.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: No kidding.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um why do you think being seen and accepted by people around you or by other men can be such like a powerful experience for people?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think because like I said earlier, I think it's because we get all these messages and internal, not not only do we get the messages or we take on those messages, but I know for myself, I internalize those mess, those I internalize them saying there is something wrong with me.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's something inherently wrong with me.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it is, I don't understand it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that when so when I am seen or when I am known in my fullness, I get a counter message that you are accepted just as you are.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you are good and worthy.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting how when we try and hide ourselves and use masks and insecurities, that by taking all that away we become a more purified version of who we were actually meant to be, not what we what we think society is telling us to be, and and what you know.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: It goes back to God's original question to Eve.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Who told you you were naked?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like why do you even know that?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So these experiences, what does like brotherhood look like to you?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Now, now after years of experiencing this, and yeah, that's a great that is a great question, you know, because so now so growing up without brothers, you know, it was it's something that I strove, I I I searched for and really just needed um all growing up.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and for the first part of my life and for um a very long time, the brotherhood, my need for brotherhood came across as very needy, very um, um I can't think of the word.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I would I would latch on to one one close friend and that was it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it only he could fill that need.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was it.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: No one else, you know, and and if if he didn't speak to me, I thought, oh no, he's mad at me.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, oh no, I'm not I'm not worthy anymore, I'm not acceptable anymore, you know.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and as I've grown and matured and and have discovered a a band of brothers, although I hate that term.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is that because your your military background?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, just I think it's just overused.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Overused?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just overused.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, as as I I've gotten this this group of close friends that are are really considered brothers, I know that you know, if if if if someone of if one of those guys is has gone through his stuff and needs needs, you know, three, four, five days a week or whatever of disconnecting, that's not a reflection of me.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a reflection of my value to him.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that is a re that is a reflection.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: That is his need and his stuff, not mine.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so so and that I know I've gotten that through men's work and and through just working and and maturing.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um codependent.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Codependent, that's the word I would have moved.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my my my original, I mean, my very, very early on, like high school, um, college years, my friendships and need for brotherhood became very codependent on that person.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like to the point it was detrimental and ruined the friendship.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I totally understand that.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I share that with you actually hearing that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I was in like growing up in high school.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would latch on to one person.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you are my everything, I I can't let go of you.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually it did, it ended up pushing us apart because of that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to kind of you know go through that and learn that lesson.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's a hard lesson.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it took me a long time.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: It took me a long time to learn it.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it hasn't been until recently.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to, I don't know, I don't know, uh, because I'm just thinking about it, the correlation between naturism and those friends is if there's a correlation there or not, but it seems like looking back, the timing, my learning to not be codependent on one person and being and and and and being naked with with people kind of coincide.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Might be a qu might be a coincidence, might not be.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've never thought about it.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting like how it lines up on the timeline though.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: For someone like listening right now who feels kind of curious but nervous, where should they start and kind of expect emotionally for their first experience stripping naked and going to either a swimming hole or just out in nature?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just out in nature.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I would say do it in a safe space alone, or do it with someone you trust.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, and and do it at night, you know, you know, take down, take down uh take down as many barriers as as you want.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, for me, one of the things that that made me really end up end up being comfortable with my body was was having to shower at the Y at a day on a daily basis before work, seeing the same people.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, because because I was there at the same time working out as the same people that we're working at.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like every day we were at, you know, you know, and I um fortunately was going to a Y that had open showers at the time.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, and not that I thought anything about it at the time, but over time you go from seeing those those men every day to saying hi, saying, Oh, good morning, how was your workout, you know, and then getting to know them and then actually having conversations with them that you just happen to be naked when that conversation is happening, you know.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that that is a good, I think that's a good healthy progression.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I and like I said, going back to our original the original question, it saddens me that that is being taken away from our societies.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we're gonna see that play out, you know, in the next couple years or generations where people, you know, the pendulum swinging one way and it'll start to shift back the other way.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Shift back away, yeah.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just an interesting progression to see.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um you had mentioned, I wanted to touch on them.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned being part of the men's the mankind project.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: The mankind project, yes, thank you.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to tell me a little bit about that and how you got involved in that?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so the Mankind Project is an organization that um that kind of speaks at two phases of men or or two angles of men.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: One is um to initiate men into the circle of man manliness and into the circle of men.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, other societies do really or other yeah, other societies do really, really well um um taking their boys at the age of anywhere from 11 to 16, giving them a quest.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: Once that quest is completed, saying you are now a man, and this is what it means to be a man.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we unfortunately are really bad at that.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like really bad.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the the the closest thing we have to it is either is sports or gangs.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, you know, gangs do it really well.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, gangs probably do it the best.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, athletic teams do it good as well, fraternities can do it well.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, fraternities are more are aren't so much as you've you you're a man.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um so the Mankind Project seeks to do that as well.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then the other side of it is to um take you through your own hero's journey.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, where um on a hero's journey is is a literary um device that has been used through the ages, where um someone steps up and and says, Yes, I will take on that quest.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: I will go slay the dragon and save the save the princess.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and in that in that quest, in that journey, he usually goes and has to fight something either internally or externally, and goes way deep down um into the darkness.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and in that darkness, he finds something out about him that's very critical about how he is wired and what his strengths and weaknesses are.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: And when he comes back up out of that dark place, he's a much better man.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: And he's he and he has saved the saved, slayed the dragon or saved the princess, and is the hero and and is celebrated as the hero.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, so it mankind project takes you on your own personal hero journey through that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: So and so Mankind Project holds um holds some weekends called the New Warrior Project, um, adventure weekend.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And in that weekend, um, several places, um, there is nudity involved for many of the reasons that we have talked about um here in in you know um and a lot of and for a lot of the men it's just a challenge.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: For a lot of men, it's the first time they've ever been naked in front of another man.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting, especially, especially now, you know, when when you know in when you know kids don't change in school anymore, that you know that's been going for a while, you know.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's it's very enlightening.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh So interesting.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: What what does like one of these I don't know if I should call it a program events?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: What should what would one of these programs kind of look like?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm showing up, I sign up, and I go.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: See, that's really part of it because the less you know about the weekend, the more effective it is.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I should know it's because because if you knew everything that went on the weekend, you're not like, oh hell no, I'm not doing that.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: But every step along the way prepares you to the point so that so that you're ready for for what is to come down the road.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: But when you hear it at the beginning, you're like, uh yeah, no, that's not gonna happen.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: But by the time you get there, you're like, okay.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds awesome.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we've you know, we've talked about freedom, vulnerability, brotherhood, faith, and what kind of happens when we stop hiding ourselves.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um before wrapping up, I wanted to ask you like what would you tell the version of yourself before ever getting into this?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like your younger version.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any advice you'd give to them?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would I would say, you know what, you are created exactly how you're supposed to be.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need to compare yourself to that guy or that guy or that man.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because you are exactly the man you were created to be.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Both physically, emotionally, spiritually.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: You are who exactly who you were created to be.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you have good things to give, and you will be accepted as you are.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot more people need to hear that.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: A lot I think a lot more people need to hear that.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um it would help a lot of people if they could kind of absorb that messaging.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: What is there anything that we didn't talk about that you would like to cover or any any points that we didn't touch on?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh man, I don't think so.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, except except when you come to the Ozarks.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would love to come to Ozarks.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: You just just shoot me a message.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's the closest airport I need to fly into, and I will make it happen.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds so awesome.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: Too easy.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and I I actually have a really good friend in that that lives in Gilbert.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right on.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like he's been trying to get me to get out there.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well I would love back at you.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever come to Arizona, I would love to meet up and and go on some hikes and hang out.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh, definitely.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: It would be it would be really cool.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, cool.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for you know coming on, and I really appreciate your time and you being authentic and sharing your story.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's really awesome.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: When I think we need more people that are a good example of what nude recreation and naturism really is.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, thank you for being that for everyone.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for this podcast.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: I've enjoyed it.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've enjoyed every episode.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope I hope people are getting a lot out of it.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I have a whole school of people that you could probably have on.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Send them my way.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: Send them my way.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: My I I joke saying, and not really, but I joke saying that my spiritual gift is connected in this and connecting people.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like if you need something, I know a guy or I know a lady.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: I know someone that can you got the gift.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, yeah, like I know somebody.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: Let me connect you with them.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's oh that's awesome.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: If anyone anyone comes to mind that you're like, oh, that they'd be great.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, there's like at least two.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: At least two that I know that would be great.
• 48:04
  unknown: Great.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, send them my way.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be super cool.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Here will.
• 48:07
  unknown: Yep.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now that I'm on it, I can now that I'm on it, I can send him send them the episode of the name.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, he's not crazy.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a weirdo.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Chad.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh have a great rest of your day.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good night.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Chad, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story and your experiences and your perspective.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's this, I think this conversation reminds us that nude hiking isn't just about taking off your clothes, it's about letting go of the fears and embracing authenticity, building genuine friendships, and finding the freedom to simply be yourself.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: I also really appreciate your willingness to talk about your faith, community, and the importance of creating spaces where men can show up honestly and support one another.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's going to resonate with a lot of listeners, so thank you again for being here.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And to everyone else listening, thank you for spending part of your day with us.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd really appreciate it if you subscribed or leave a review and share it with someone who might enjoy the conversation.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, get naked, be free, and be kind.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: See ya.