Latest / Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson / Ep 18: Linda Tellington Jones - Tellington TTouch

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Ep 18: Linda Tellington Jones - Tellington TTouch · Equine Assisted World with Rupert Isaacson

• 0:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World.
• 0:02
  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
• 0:03
  New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
• 0:07
  Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
• 0:11
  You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
• 0:16
  Here on Equine Assisted World.
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  We look at the cutting edge and the best practices currently being developed and,
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  established in the equine assisted field.
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  This can be psychological, this can be neuropsych, this can be
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  physical, this can be all of the conditions that human beings have.
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  These lovely equines, these beautiful horses that we work with, help us with.
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  Thank you for being part of the adventure and we hope you enjoy today's show
• 0:47
  Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.
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  Today, my guest needs no introduction.
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  It's Linda Tellington Jones, the legend.
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  If she does need an introduction to you, you need to go and
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  look up Linda Tellington Jones.
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  Whether you're into horse welfare from a sport point of view, from just a,
• 1:06
  horse ownership point of view whether you're into actually effective riding,
• 1:11
  whether you're into how to be better with your dog, whether you're better
• 1:15
  with how to be better with your human.
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  Linda has.
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  Covered all of these in the course of her illustrious career and She's one of
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  our main mentors And but not just us.
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  She's a mentor to many thousands of people around the world with good
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  reason t touch Turning to touch is a thing if you don't know what it is.
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  Go look it up.
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  We will be talking about it, though Hopefully Linda will be explaining some
• 1:45
  of it in the course of today's But we're going to be looking really at the the
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  idea of where the priorities are first with equine welfare This is this is
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  something which we all know is not always there in the equine assisted field.
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  But it's a conversation now that is being had and things are getting better.
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  Things are improving.
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  And once we asked that question, we're going to look at welfare for the
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  humans as well within these programs.
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  So Linda, thanks for coming on.
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  Welcome.
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  And if a listener now is wondering what is the primary
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  aspect of equine well being that anybody who is running an equine
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  assisted program should prioritize?
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  What is that thing?
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  Where should we be starting from as ground zero?
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  Linda Tellington Jones: I believe, and Rupert, thank you for having me on
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  again, I just love spending time with you just in these discussions because
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  it's not, we're not thinking enough, what does the horse get out of this?
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  And I've, you know, as you know, I think you know, I brought the idea
• 3:05
  of Liberty Ring riding to Germany at Equitana in 1975, and now it's everywhere
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  in all disciplines, all breeds.
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  And on my 50th anniversary, 50 years with, through, from the first equiton,
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  I was asked, so that you've achieved this goal of people appreciating this
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  freedom that a horse gets when you ride with just a neck ring around it.
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  And what's your, what about for the next 20 years?
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  What's your goal?
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  Because I'm almost 90, Rupert.
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  I'm so excited.
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  You can't imagine.
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  But you
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  Rupert Isaacson: don't look a day over 25, so you're doing good.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: And it's really important, I believe.
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  My passion, my mission is to really tell people, enhance the
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  understanding that seeing the personality of the horse, acknowledging
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  the individuality of the horse.
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  With gratitude.
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  Thank them before you start.
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  And I mean, I've been doing this part in assisted therapy, well,
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  in the very, since, what, the 80s?
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  When I first was working in Germany in the 70s, actually.
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  To horses who were said to be really sour.
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  Horses that were used in therapy.
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  And all we had to do at the time, I didn't think about just thanking the horse
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  because I wasn't aware, Rupert, of the force of energy, the function of energy
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  from the quantum physics point of view.
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  That every thought we have, every word we speak, every, every belief
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  that we have and every emotion and every feeling is energy.
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  And when we just smile at our horses and thank them, just, even if you don't
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  know T Touch, you can start with that.
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  Just put your hand on the horse's neck or, you know, where I started
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  this before T Touch, just on the forehead of the horse and thank them.
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  And something happens, and I want to tell you this story about three
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  or four years ago in Germany.
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  In this annual training that I do in the south of Germany, a woman
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  came to me and she said she has six ponies that she uses for young
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  children, like five and six year olds.
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  And I mean, Certainly, that's therapy.
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  I mean, it's so amazing for the children at that point, and she
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  said, but her ponies aren't happy.
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  Their ears are back.
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  They're sour.
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  They're not interested.
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  They look depressed.
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  What can I do?
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  And I said, all you have to do.
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  When that child comes in, it's just, teach the horse, just to allow them to just
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  touch them on the forehead and thank them.
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  Where, and if they, if they can't reach the forehead, go on the
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  shoulder and just thank the horse.
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  She came back to me the next year at the same training and said that
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  her, her ponies are now smiling.
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  It's all we have to do and it's just so important that when we're in a
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  place of fear, that's the other thing.
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  And when people, depending what type of therapy you're doing, they may, I mean,
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  who isn't in a place of fear, right?
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  This is a new horse.
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  If they put one hand on the other, over the other, on their chest, on
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  their heart chakra, and just imagine that you have a face of a clock
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  looking at it from the outside.
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  And put one hand over there and very as gently like with the least contact
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  you can have to move the skin in just a tiny one and a quarter circle.
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  What that does is bring us from that state of fear with under the control
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  of the sympathetic nervous system and activate the parasympathetic.
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  So, instead of being controlled by our fight, flight, fear, faint,
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  fool around, you know, amygdala, we activate the forebrain.
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  And the horses feel that.
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  And when we add the smile to it, Rupert, when we add the smile, what
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  happens, we activate our serotonin.
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  And by moving the skin really lightly, what happens is we activate the
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  most oxytocin, what Bruce Lipson is calling the trust hormone.
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  And that's, that's from a 2000 person study done by the American
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  Massage Association, thinking that they were going to get the most
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  oxytocin from deep tissue work.
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  They got some, but way, way more cortisol.
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  And from the lightest contact with the body, which is what we do with the
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  movement of the horse, it's not massage, it's a message to the intelligence
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  of the cells, that amazing cellular consciousness that knows how to, every
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  cell in the body knows how to function in the body and knows how to take care
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  of us and our horses, and their bodies.
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  So it's just so simple.
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  Just have them do the simple heart hug and smile.
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  So,
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  Rupert Isaacson: for those people who can't see Linda on the other
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  end of their Zoom like I can, I'm just going to describe what she did.
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  She took one hand over the other and she put it over her heart.
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  And so if you, if you're listening, if you're driving, don't do
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  this or pull over, obviously.
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  But if you're listening, why not give it a try?
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  Place one hand over the other, put it over your heart.
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  And then as Linda said, with a very light pressure to maybe that moves the
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  skin, even if it's through your sweater.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: Oh yeah.
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  Rupert Isaacson: A circle.
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  And a quarter,
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  and see how that makes you feel, and I'm doing it right now, and
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  I'm feeling a pleasurable softness.
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  So I'm now going to add what Linda told me to do.
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  So I'm going to thank Linda, because Linda has mentored me and made my equine
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  therapeutic practices much better.
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  So I have a lot of gratitude.
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  So here I go, so my hand.
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  It's over the other hand, now they're both over my heart.
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  I'm one circle
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  and a quarter.
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  I'm thinking of Linda.
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  Thinking about how much I love Linda.
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  I'm thinking about how grateful I am to Linda for all the knowledge and support.
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  Thank you, Linda.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: And you know what's so interesting?
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  It just made me think of a situation in Germany many years
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  ago when I had a young woman.
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  She was certainly under 30.
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  in a wheelchair who came to see her Icelandic horse and she had cancer and
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  she was in the later stages of cancer, but she wanted to come to see her horse.
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  And so I just had her put her arms up on the horse and she could reach the chair.
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  She could stand up just with a wheelchair there and with a little
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  help and take her chest and put it on the horse's ribcage and make the
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  circle and the quarter with that.
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  And, you know, just, it was like hugging a horse, and it was, when I, it actually
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  brings tears to my eyes when I think of the joy that she got from that.
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  And the reason that we do the one and a quarter, I mean, we, that, that came to me
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  intuitively many years ago, and it was, I don't know, we've been doing it at least
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  10 years, when a young, man in autism spectrum came into a weekend for humans
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  for t touch for self help and he said you know what you all are talking about
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  here in this one and a quarter circle is that is that famous golden or sacred
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  spiral that is the form that is in all of nature you see it really clearly the
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  Rupert Isaacson: Fibonacci sequence yeah
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  Linda Tellington Jones: exactly
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  Rupert Isaacson: yeah
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  Linda Tellington Jones: and and it's the same It's a spiral movement that's in
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  our DNA, and so it's not a wonder that we can release pain and fear in ourselves.
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  And that's the thing with the fear.
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  So one of the things as you're approaching, and maybe you've never
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  been with a horse before and you're using, you know, some form of assisted
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  therapy from a distance to begin with.
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  If you are feeling anxious, you can do the heart hug and you can
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  also, another one that we do.
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  is doing these one and a quarter circles on our lips around the mouth
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  because the mouth is the closest connection to the limbic system.
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  You know, that controls our, our taste, our smell, all of this.
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  And you just, yeah, take your, your lips just between your thumb and
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  forefinger and just make a little circle and a quarter and go around the lips.
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  And we've had such wonderful experiences with this, with children and adults.
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  And it just makes sense.
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  I mean, look what happens emotionally.
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  If something happens and we, you know, you startle and put your hand over your
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  mouth, that's a common thing to do.
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  Or guys who are lucky who have beards or mustaches, you'll see them a lot
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  just, you know, pulling the mustache.
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  It's a, it's a way of self,
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  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, self soothing.
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  Yeah.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Sure, I'm doing it now.
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  Rubbing my beard.
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  Think
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  Linda Tellington Jones: of the thinker.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Yes, absolutely.
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  It is interesting how the chin and the beard.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
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  Rupert Isaacson: I guess what it does is it loosens the jaw, right?
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  And the jaw is where you, if you clench the jaw, that's also, or
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  if you press your tongue to the top of your mouth and your teeth.
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  All of those are amygdala things like they're all stress reactions.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: And you can just calm yourself with that.
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  Rupert Isaacson: But what's interesting is that you started this with gratitude.
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  So, the technique, the physical technique of that rotation around
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  the heart or these rotations around the mouth are accompanied, of
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  course, by a feeling of gratitude.
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  Yeah.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: And the smile to activate that
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  field hormone, the serotonin.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: Let's feel it when we do it.
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  But let me, I, for you, I want to tell, I want to, I'm sure I've told you this
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  at one point, but it's just such a passion, this concept of the one and
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  a quarter circle on the chest, which is our heart chakra in the center.
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  So if you imagine putting a clock on the wall, like kids used to have
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  in school, you imagine taking that clock and putting it on your chest.
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  The reason we're imagining is because imagining activates the right brain.
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  And why is that so important?
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  For our compassion, first of all.
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  For our creativity, for our intuition, and for our feeling,
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  Rupert, because think about it now.
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  And we have so lost our, this, just the concept of hugging somebody
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  or, you know, reaching out and shaking hands thanks to COVID.
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  I mean, people are still, I still have doctors.
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  Either touch, you know, fist to fist or elbow to elbow
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  in the fear.
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  And so, if whatever we, so we imagine the face of the clock and on this
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  reason we do a clock, you put the numbers 6 toward the ground, you know,
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  9 toward the right shoulder, 12 toward the chin, 3 toward the left shoulder.
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  Why do I say it?
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  Because it's obvious.
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  Because it's a method.
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  And methods and numbers activate the very important.
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  logical left brain.
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  And we couldn't be here on this podcast if we didn't have an active left brain.
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  So this is why when you, when you make this one and a quarter circle
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  on your, anywhere on your body or on your horse, of course, that's the
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  next thing in order to make a cell to cell connection with your horse.
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  It's something that you could do.
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  And it's so exciting because what people, what, what happens is people
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  become more flexible when they do this.
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  Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting that, yeah, you're talking about activating the
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  right brain first and then the left brain.
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  So by right brain with the active self compassion, the, and then the face
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  of the clock brings in the left brain and then you've got both hemispheres
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  available and that's coherence.
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  Yeah, no, absolutely.
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  That makes a lot of sense.
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  Linda Tellington Jones: And so every time you do these circles in the circle is like
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  a homeopathic knowing of the, this clock.
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  And the one and a quarter spiral.
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  And of course, just the one and a quarter activates the left brain.
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  It's a number.
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  And again, it's a method.
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  But, then, this concept of movement.
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  So what activates the right brain?
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  Daydreaming, imagination, movement.
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  Of course, what you have in your, all of your therapy.
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  Movement of the child on the, or person on the horse with you.
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  And color, and music, art.
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  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
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  So,
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  Linda Tellington Jones: Well,
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  Rupert Isaacson: you just talked about color, music and art.
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  Now this you also do not see a lot of in equine assisted or equine things, period.
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  And what's so interesting to me about that is your average arena, as we
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  know, particularly your average indoor arena looks like an industrial building
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  and often is an industrial building.
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  Maybe it's got some nice wooden kickboards, but.
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  That's about it.
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  They're often very sterile.
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  Outdoor arenas can be nicer because you've obviously got the
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  landscape, you know, visible.
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  But When you look at old pictures of people in arenas, there's some on
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  the wall behind me where I'm sitting.
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  If I look at them, what you see is they're either, or actually those ones have a
• 17:06
  little bit of a landscape behind them, but you often see like Grecian pillars or
• 17:12
  art and drapery and that sort of thing.
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  Like the sort of stuff that artists routinely put into their
• 17:19
  pictures, but they, those old riding halls had that stuff.
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  They were aesthetically very, very beautiful.
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  Places to be and so I say well, I you know, I can't afford to have fancy stuff
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  But any of course any indoor arena is de facto expensive, but they're usually
• 17:37
  pretty ugly Now we're so busy looking at the horse, which is an object of beauty
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  a being of beauty that of course We're enamored of that moving Aesthetics so
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  we could say well, that's the art, but I don't believe that's enough And so it's
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  interesting that you've brought that up.
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  And so I'm a great believer in bringing art You Plants, trees, nature, all
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  sorts of things into riding arenas.
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  You know, when you go to see an equestrian show, that's kind
• 18:08
  of what you see, don't you?
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  Or, or it's darkened and there's a spotlight.
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  So talk to us about why art.
• 18:16
  And music and color came into your mind when you were talking about the
• 18:19
  therapeutic context with, with horses, because I think it's not something that
• 18:23
  necessarily people go intuitively to.
• 18:26
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, the reason I go to it immediately is I know that
• 18:30
  this affects this hard hook, this, we call it a T touch hard hook, this one and
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  a quarter circle on the, on the chest.
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  And the fact is that when we do this and imagining the clock and then imagining
• 18:45
  the numbers, and we activate all this creativity, I mean, this feeling, this
• 18:50
  intuition, and this compassion, it's just, that's, you know, that's where I always go
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  to first, because most children, and let's say, have gone through your program, are,
• 19:03
  everything is on the, on the left brain.
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  It's all logic, and the problem with logic is.
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  this black and white, you know, not having flow, not having choice, not being able
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  to think compassionately or creatively.
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  It's all for us.
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  And I know, and we've seen it in our people who do tea touch on their animals,
• 19:25
  their horses, their dogs themselves over a period of time, they become
• 19:28
  more flexible, more willing to listen.
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  And I, and I believe it enhances learning.
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  And what I loved about what I saw with you, Rupert, in Texas.
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  Having the different numbers written on around the paddock that the kids numbers.
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  And if I remember correctly words that would that would enhance them.
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  And I was just thinking from this point of view.
• 19:52
  Well, great.
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  It would be when you went to any animal assisted therapy have
• 19:57
  horses that had different colored horse had different color alters
• 20:05
  on and different colored ropes.
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  And.
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  Maybe do something fun, like have the people before put together
• 20:12
  some sort of lei, not from flowers because it's too hard, but
• 20:15
  something, or something with color.
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  Let them put, imagine putting something that would go around the horse's neck
• 20:23
  that would be like, you know, like a necklace, like something creative,
• 20:27
  and then have them pick the horse by the color of the, that's on the horse.
• 20:33
  And it would be so much fun, I mean, with, with your children riding with
• 20:38
  them if they would have some sort of, I don't know, a cape, actually, of
• 20:42
  different colors, and have them choose that cape, what cape would like, who
• 20:46
  would like, who would they like to be?
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  Rupert Isaacson: I
• 20:48
  Linda Tellington Jones: mean, it's just, that's the kind of thing that
• 20:51
  we did with, I, I did this in the 80s, and not the 80s, the 60s, at our
• 20:57
  Pacific Coast Equestrian Research Forum.
• 20:59
  We did a 12 week program with a group of young people in their late teens
• 21:05
  being in a, an institute to teach.
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  them to be able to get along with, with simple jobs that they
• 21:12
  could actually function with.
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  And they came to ride once a week.
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  And the one of the things that we did, I let them greet the horses and pick
• 21:23
  a horse that they liked the looks of.
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  So they would actually look at the horse, because that is one of the
• 21:29
  toughest people, toughest things, I think, in the sport horse world, is
• 21:33
  that people don't see the horses.
• 21:37
  And it's so interesting, Rupert, when I was teaching as a citizen diplomat in
• 21:41
  Russia, One of the things, they asked me if I would work with the young,
• 21:45
  young people and teenage sport riders.
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  And one of the things they wanted was to give them a sense that
• 21:54
  the horse was not a bicycle.
• 21:56
  And it's the same thing in the German Federation.
• 22:00
  It's all the same thing.
• 22:01
  How can we get our young riders to see the horse other than motorcycle or a bicycle?
• 22:10
  And I think the gift to the horses that you bring, that I've seen you give.
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  Not just the horse walking around, but the excitement of sitting
• 22:20
  in that saddle with you, and all of the people working with you.
• 22:26
  And I actually had a chance to do it, too.
• 22:29
  It was such a, you know, you can pretend you're a knight or
• 22:34
  somebody else than what you are.
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  And it takes you away.
• 22:38
  It takes you somewhere else.
• 22:39
  I mean, it was so incredible.
• 22:41
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 22:41
  The whole idea is, is the imagination, right?
• 22:43
  We, so the more things that can spark our imagination and that's, that's of
• 22:48
  course, why any of us got into horses in the first place, because it, something
• 22:51
  sparked in our imagination around them.
• 22:54
  That of course breeds perspective and resilience.
• 22:57
  Problem solving the, the ability to think around problems, the ability
• 23:01
  to see solutions, not just problems.
• 23:04
  So I'm a great believer like you, that the more things that spark the imagination,
• 23:09
  the more chance there is for these, if you like cognitive processes to happen.
• 23:16
  Let's take this now to the physical and the structural.
• 23:20
  So again, one of the things we often see those of us who are practitioners
• 23:28
  is When a horse comes to us, well, it usually comes to us for a reason.
• 23:33
  People give away horses because usually they've broken them.
• 23:37
  It's just a fact.
• 23:39
  So they'll contact you or they'll contact me and say, Oh, this
• 23:42
  would make a great therapy horse.
• 23:43
  What they mean is he's now crocked and he can't do my hard competition job anymore.
• 23:49
  So I would like to get rid of him and I'd like you, Mr.
• 23:52
  Therapy or Miss Therapy provider to take on the costs of this horse for me.
• 23:58
  For the rest of its life, because I don't want to have to pay for
• 24:01
  this horse after I've broken it.
• 24:03
  And not only do I want you to take on all the costs, but I want you to feel
• 24:08
  grateful for the fact that I'm giving you this amazing horse that I'm just actually
• 24:12
  chucking effectively in the trash bin.
• 24:16
  What I often say to that is, yes, and how are you going to contribute
• 24:20
  to this horse's maintenance?
• 24:22
  And that's often, you know, greeted either with surprise or sometimes outrage.
• 24:28
  And it's like, well, dude, if I didn't take this horse, you'd be in trouble.
• 24:31
  Have to pay for its stuff, right?
• 24:33
  So if you care about this horse and say you love this horse, you love this horse
• 24:37
  so much that you're going to give it away then Surely if you were going to
• 24:41
  pay for it at home, you wouldn't mind paying a little bit less You know, to,
• 24:46
  to maintain it where it's going to be.
• 24:47
  That, of course, is a whole other can of worms.
• 24:49
  But, okay, so the horse arrives, and it's got stuff wrong with it.
• 24:54
  And, as we know, that's got usually a leg problem, a back
• 24:57
  problem, or like a stifle problem.
• 25:00
  Those are usually the three main ones.
• 25:02
  We'll see.
• 25:02
  Let's leave the brain out of it for a moment.
• 25:05
  When you see horses coming in with these issues, Talk to us how you would
• 25:13
  set about the rehab of the horse while it was still included in the program
• 25:20
  because a lot of people they can't take the time out say okay I'm going to take
• 25:24
  you know a year to rehab this horse and then I'm going to put him in the program
• 25:27
  because they're they're strapped for time they're strapped for cash so the horse
• 25:31
  is going to need to be worked with the Clients in a way that is also good for
• 25:37
  the horse and rehabs it simultaneously.
• 25:39
  Can you give us your thoughts on that?
• 25:42
  And some tech technologies and techniques that people can think about
• 25:46
  because everyone's facing this I think
• 25:48
  Linda Tellington Jones: yeah And I mean the thing is going back to that thing
• 25:52
  of people not wanting to pay I mean many of those sport horses come with
• 25:56
  insurance and they get a tax deduction if they're going to a non profit
• 26:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely,
• 26:01
  Linda Tellington Jones: and I mean it's something that It's just a
• 26:04
  fact of life and people are going to have to get used to it because we
• 26:08
  can't afford to take those horses.
• 26:09
  Now, in terms, so you have the horse, however it got there.
• 26:13
  My first question is, is the, is the issue that the horse, physical issue
• 26:21
  the horse is dealing with putting the horse in, Other than discomfort, in
• 26:27
  real pain, so that the respiration and pulse are affected, and you can
• 26:32
  feel a digital pulse in the hoof.
• 26:35
  Now, the reason I say that, Rupert, if you had asked me that question in 1975,
• 26:44
  I would have told you I wouldn't use a horse like that.
• 26:47
  But I have to tell you a story of why I would consider it.
• 26:52
  I was invited in Germany after all the present, you know, the
• 26:58
  show that we put on at Equitana, jumping four horses with no bridles.
• 27:02
  And so I was invited to different places around the country.
• 27:06
  And I was invited to go on a three day ride, cross country ride,
• 27:10
  with a woman named Angela Payson.
• 27:12
  She'd written a book about distance, about wander riding.
• 27:15
  It was called Wander.
• 27:17
  I forget in German now what the word is.
• 27:19
  Anyway and so we went to meet her and the idea was that we'd ride about 30
• 27:25
  miles a day and then stay in these nice places where horses could be kept
• 27:29
  in a stable and we'd be in a hotel.
• 27:32
  So it was a great idea.
• 27:33
  So we go there and we get, I had a really nice horse and she was riding
• 27:38
  a 19 year old mare who was dead.
• 27:42
  bloody dead lame.
• 27:44
  I mean, seriously lame in the right front.
• 27:50
  And I was like riding along in shock when, when we walked out of there.
• 27:56
  And after about 30 minutes, the lameness got less.
• 28:01
  And with by an hour, she was pretty.
• 28:07
  You'd, you'd, you'd notice it if you had a good eye, but she
• 28:09
  wasn't what I'd call lame anymore.
• 28:13
  And so we go all day, and about 5 o'clock, the mare starts to go lame again.
• 28:17
  Short.
• 28:18
  Not like in the morning.
• 28:20
  So we put the horses away, and I said to her over dinner that night,
• 28:24
  You know, I just can't believe it when I have a horse like that.
• 28:27
  That's, that's the time the quality of life is not okay,
• 28:31
  and we put the horse down.
• 28:33
  And she said, Look, I have some arthritis in my body also.
• 28:41
  Do I want to be put down?
• 28:42
  No, I don't.
• 28:44
  And she said, I tried turning this mirror out when she went, started
• 28:47
  to go like this, and she got worse.
• 28:50
  And she obviously didn't want to be alone.
• 28:54
  So I started riding her lightly.
• 28:56
  And you saw what happened today.
• 28:58
  She walked out of it.
• 28:59
  So I'm not recommending this report for anybody.
• 29:02
  But today what I say is.
• 29:05
  You know, check and make sure the horse is not suffering.
• 29:10
  And by that I mean the respiration and pulse are in normal range.
• 29:16
  And, and there's stuff that you can do to alleviate that.
• 29:19
  I mean, we have so much help nowadays.
• 29:21
  Of things just I mean the cheapest help that you can get and I
• 29:25
  don't know if you've ever heard this But they're life wave pain
• 29:28
  patches and I have seen miracles.
• 29:31
  I mean, I tell
• 29:32
  Rupert Isaacson: us that that product again
• 29:34
  Linda Tellington Jones: It's called life way if you life way
• 29:36
  Rupert Isaacson: life way pain patch Wave
• 29:38
  Linda Tellington Jones: w life wave.
• 29:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
• 29:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: and pain and they have all different kind of
• 29:44
  patches pain patches energy patches and I I have You I have put them on
• 29:50
  people, but the big thing is, the most amazing thing, two horses I put it on.
• 29:55
  I want to tell this for your people because it can't hurt.
• 29:58
  I mean they claim it's not homeopathy, but I'll tell you, it can't be
• 30:03
  measured because people were using it in the Olympics in London.
• 30:07
  People I know ride horses, and humans, both actually.
• 30:12
  And so, so I had, the first time I, I used it on a horse because I've
• 30:18
  been putting it on people with real longstanding pain and you just set the
• 30:22
  patch on there and like the pain is gone and we're, I'm talking in eight pain.
• 30:28
  This is like not just discomfort and it's longstanding in some cases.
• 30:34
  So I was up in Wyoming and an Arabian mare found it really badly.
• 30:43
  They didn't, they did some acupuncture, they did have a vet actually visiting that
• 30:49
  week because it's way out in the country, a long ways in Montana, in Wyoming, sorry.
• 30:56
  And so they just put the mare down by the river and left her with food and like I'm
• 31:02
  thinking they're not going to give this horse any help because in those, mostly
• 31:06
  today Rupert, it's still believed that, that if she would go in the river and
• 31:11
  get her ice cold feet, it would help her.
• 31:14
  Which, I don't know if you've read the studies, but it's
• 31:17
  the worst thing you can do.
• 31:19
  If you put a horse in ice, they're, they won't, they'll last a couple
• 31:22
  of months, and every horse I've known in the past that was treated
• 31:26
  traditionally with ice didn't make it.
• 31:29
  But a study was done at, at Texas no, at in Iowa, I think it was Iowa
• 31:37
  State, about 30 years ago, and I just happened to read it in Western
• 31:41
  Horseman, showing that it is.
• 31:44
  When a horse first, you know, gets the lemini engorged, instead of putting
• 31:48
  them in ice, you put them in hot water, not, I mean, hot water you can put
• 31:53
  your hand in, it's comfortable, hot and then cool, and hot and cool, and I did
• 31:59
  it on the Great American Horse Race, I was the international coordinator
• 32:03
  for the German, for the European team.
• 32:07
  One of our horses came up really off, and with, you know, a
• 32:12
  light case, a case of founder.
• 32:14
  In the very, on the second day out, and three other horses had the same
• 32:19
  condition, so they were pulled, and they were, the other three horses
• 32:24
  were iced, and just carried along across the country in trailers, and
• 32:29
  they were put down after two months.
• 32:31
  When our vet wanted to do that, I told him about this study, and I
• 32:35
  said, let's see what happens, and we put them in hot, and, Like, hmm.
• 32:42
  Hotter than warm, but not hot hot.
• 32:45
  Rupert Isaacson: Like bath water.
• 32:47
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, like bath water.
• 32:48
  Exactly.
• 32:49
  And, and, and, and then cool, not ice, but cold.
• 32:54
  Just alternating.
• 32:55
  And we, I've got to call Dave Nicholson and ask him what
• 32:59
  the heck he can't remember.
• 33:01
  He sent me, I drove like 40 miles to pick up some other medication.
• 33:06
  that he gave the horse a shot.
• 33:07
  I don't know what, what it was, but our horse was back on the
• 33:11
  road in four days and crossed the country, finished the race.
• 33:14
  The other horses, all three horses were put down.
• 33:17
  Now, so I'm telling you this, so I'm, I'm really, you know, I've had a lot of
• 33:22
  horses in my life and seen a lot of cases of laminitis that ended up badly with ice.
• 33:29
  So the reason I'm telling you this is this to help anybody who's doing
• 33:33
  animal horse equine assisted therapy.
• 33:36
  this concept of the pain patches.
• 33:39
  So, this horse, they put her down by the river, which, I'm sorry, was really
• 33:45
  crazy because it was rocky and she had to go over rocks to get in the river.
• 33:49
  So, I go up to see her in the evening after my class ended, and the mare
• 33:53
  is standing there, not eating, respiration was up, her pulse was
• 33:58
  up, and her food was just standing there, and she was not happy, and
• 34:02
  she It was not standing in the water.
• 34:05
  And so I put the pain patches on her, bam, and I'm trying to remember
• 34:13
  why, I don't remember now, but it was a place that I knew from one
• 34:19
  of my, one of our veterinarians.
• 34:21
  And Rupert, this mare, I put it on within 30, maybe a minute.
• 34:31
  She picked her head up, walked like 10 feet to the hay and started eating and
• 34:37
  walked down to the river and drank.
• 34:39
  and came back and ate.
• 34:41
  That's the first time I did it.
• 34:43
  I thought, listen, I can't believe it.
• 34:46
  I mean, I just, I was just stunned.
• 34:49
  And then the other, the next time, and this is even like, it gives you hope.
• 34:55
  And these things are not expensive.
• 34:57
  That's the good news.
• 34:59
  So the next time was at another horse rescue place in Colorado.
• 35:07
  And I was watching this 35 year old warmblood, I mean three legged,
• 35:15
  his left hind leg, he was so, so in such pain that he was on his toe.
• 35:22
  And so I thought, eh, I was with one of our, one of my friends who's a vet and
• 35:28
  also does T Touch, and I said, Why don't we, why don't we just stick these pain
• 35:31
  patches on this horse, see what happens?
• 35:33
  Because she hadn't seen them before.
• 35:35
  And I put them on.
• 35:37
  The inside and the outside of the hawk, and this horse trotted
• 35:45
  off, Rupert, trotted off.
• 35:50
  I mean, isn't that incredible?
• 35:51
  Rupert Isaacson: With the patches on?
• 35:52
  Linda Tellington Jones: With the patches on.
• 35:54
  I put the patches on.
• 35:55
  It's, it's, the patch is about an inch across, and put one on the inside and one
• 36:01
  on the outside, and choop, trotted off.
• 36:03
  And
• 36:03
  Rupert Isaacson: how long do they last for, the patches?
• 36:06
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, they tell you on humans, They say don't leave them
• 36:10
  on more than 24 hours because it, stuff on it, the stuff that sticks it to your
• 36:15
  skin you know, it's not good for you.
• 36:18
  Truth is, I've had people who couldn't afford even the price of the patches, and
• 36:23
  so they put one in their shoe and could go to work without pain in their feet.
• 36:29
  So, and I've known people who just put it in their cap and put the cap on.
• 36:36
  Rupert Isaacson: How do you get the patch to stick on the horse hair?
• 36:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: Oh, it just sticks on the dog or horse area.
• 36:42
  You don't have to.
• 36:43
  Rupert Isaacson: So I'm looking these up as you're talking about them
• 36:45
  because I haven't heard of them before.
• 36:46
  And I've got a horse who has some, who, who, who, basically the horse
• 36:51
  that you described from the German lady that walked itself somewhat
• 36:54
  sound and then would come up.
• 36:56
  So I have a horse like this and this horse was given to us.
• 37:00
  He's superbly talented and he does exactly this.
• 37:03
  He walks himself.
• 37:05
  More or less sound when you don't do much with him He gets lamer if you do long
• 37:11
  slow work with him He gets so sound that you he then actually wants a sharp for
• 37:16
  canter work and things like that You do that for a few days and then you go back
• 37:19
  to we manage it, you know We've managed it for about 10 years, but I think these
• 37:23
  pain patches might be a good thing.
• 37:24
  So I'm looking them up To see what's in them.
• 37:26
  And of course there's a variety of different ones.
• 37:29
  And active ingredients menthol, capiscum, and camphor.
• 37:33
  But some of them also have turmeric, willow bark and of
• 37:36
  course willow is aspirin, right?
• 37:38
  Willow is painkiller.
• 37:40
  So, I'm definitely going to check these out.
• 37:46
  It's just,
• 37:47
  Linda Tellington Jones: you see, before.
• 37:48
  Capperskin, by
• 37:48
  Rupert Isaacson: the way, is, is, is basically hot pepper, right?
• 37:51
  Chili pepper.
• 37:52
  Yeah.
• 37:52
  Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there.
• 37:54
  Linda Tellington Jones: No, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you,
• 37:56
  but the thing is, until I, I, now I forget, I was a distributor for.
• 38:01
  a long time, but then I just you know, I didn't need to sell something.
• 38:06
  And so I just started keeping enough to give them to people.
• 38:10
  So if they found that one helped, they could order them.
• 38:14
  You know, you have a
• 38:15
  Rupert Isaacson: particular, I see there's a number of different brands.
• 38:17
  Do you have a particular brand that you like to?
• 38:21
  Linda Tellington Jones: What do you mean brand?
• 38:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, there's different pain patches here for, I'm looking.
• 38:25
  Linda Tellington Jones: Pain patches, yeah, for different purposes.
• 38:27
  For the
• 38:27
  Rupert Isaacson: LifeWave, okay, so LifeWave is the brand, okay.
• 38:31
  LifeWave, yeah.
• 38:33
  Oh, I see, okay, yes.
• 38:34
  Glutath Glucosamine, White Willow Bark, Turmeric, and MSM, other things.
• 38:41
  Okay, I'm gonna go give this a try.
• 38:47
  Now, I know that you're also a strong believer in the Beamer Blanket.
• 38:53
  And Yep.
• 38:56
  When you tried it on me when I was riddled with jet lag, I remember thinking, gosh,
• 39:02
  this, I can't really feel anything from the blanket, but I seem to be brighter.
• 39:07
  And then we tried the equine one and some of our hotter horses became less hot.
• 39:14
  And which reminds me, I need to start beaming one of my horses again through
• 39:18
  a bit of a hot patch right now.
• 39:19
  And also just some of our older horses were just.
• 39:22
  15 minutes.
• 39:22
  Can you talk to us a little bit about the beamer and why is it called a beamer?
• 39:26
  People think, Oh, I'm beaming something, beaming up, Scotty.
• 39:29
  What is it?
• 39:29
  How does it work?
• 39:30
  And why do you, why do you recommend this?
• 39:33
  Linda Tellington Jones: It's a PEMF.
• 39:34
  The reason I recommend it is that I'm almost 90 years old and I've had,
• 39:38
  I got my first beamer and 2003 in Germany, and it's gone through three,
• 39:43
  you know, upgrades over the years.
• 39:45
  I've had the, I've had the latest one, well I had the one that you
• 39:49
  have since 11 years ago I got it, and then two years ago I got the new Evo.
• 39:57
  And, you know, you see me, I'm riding, I can get down on the floor with a dog.
• 40:03
  The other day, Rupert, I couldn't believe it, I mean, I can do
• 40:07
  a leg circle with a horse.
• 40:08
  And I could get down and work all the way down the legs.
• 40:11
  I mean, that's like, just not possible.
• 40:15
  And I have no pain in my body.
• 40:18
  And that's Beamer, because I, I, Wouldn't I take it everywhere I go?
• 40:23
  I'm on it twice a week.
• 40:24
  B
• 40:24
  Rupert Isaacson: E M E R.
• 40:25
  That's the name of the Swiss company, right?
• 40:27
  That makes them.
• 40:28
  We're not getting, by the way, listeners, we're not getting
• 40:30
  sponsorship from any of these products.
• 40:32
  I wish we were, but we're not.
• 40:34
  How does it, how does the beamer work?
• 40:37
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, it's a pulse electromagnetic frequency.
• 40:40
  It's a frequency and what it does, you know, people, we all think if you don't,
• 40:45
  if you haven't studied this, that our heart is responsible for circulation.
• 40:50
  But actually, we have like over 70, 000 miles of these micro
• 40:54
  blood vessels in our body.
• 40:57
  And as we age, or when we have any kind of dysfunction, what happens is the pumping
• 41:04
  action stops and, not stops, sorry, it slows down and it slows like after
• 41:11
  about, what's the age, I think they say around 40, it starts to really slow down.
• 41:15
  And we don't get the circulation to our extremities and way slower.
• 41:22
  So the energy starts to drop and, and the blood flow, the circulation,
• 41:28
  the pumping action of these
• 41:30
  And what the beamer does, just lying on it twice a day, you reactivate this
• 41:35
  and get the same kind of pumping action and movement, circulation in the body.
• 41:41
  And life is blood flow.
• 41:43
  I mean, without this, boy, we just don't have the health that we have.
• 41:48
  So it's, it's really incredible.
• 41:51
  The reason I didn't say it first is it's expensive.
• 41:54
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
• 41:55
  Linda Tellington Jones: and whereas the pain patches aren't.
• 41:57
  I mean, I and I was just thinking today.
• 42:00
  I've got to order the pain patches again because I'm not using them and I'm going
• 42:04
  to get the stem cell because they now have stem cells and what I want to say as a
• 42:08
  long time unit user for many years before, but I haven't used them for at least 10
• 42:14
  years just because I have the Beamer and I sleep on it, you know, I lie on it.
• 42:19
  So, with the, with the pain, with the lightweight patches.
• 42:25
  What everybody thought before, and certainly what I thought
• 42:28
  was that they had a homeo.
• 42:30
  They were homeopathic, but that's not legal.
• 42:33
  I mean, it's nothing, right?
• 42:35
  So they have to put something in them and I'm sure all that sounds really good.
• 42:40
  And they have to put something that's harmless and that is not a drug.
• 42:45
  Otherwise, these athletes couldn't use them.
• 42:46
  So
• 42:48
  Rupert Isaacson: what are they putting in?
• 42:50
  Linda Tellington Jones: What you read?
• 42:51
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 42:52
  Linda Tellington Jones: Herbs.
• 42:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 42:54
  Linda Tellington Jones: Helpful.
• 42:55
  Harmless herbs.
• 42:57
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 42:58
  Linda Tellington Jones: And I am about to order paint the stem cell
• 43:00
  patches for me, because that's
• 43:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Tell us about the stem cell patches.
• 43:05
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, I don't know, because I haven't used them.
• 43:07
  And I just had a new something that's really pretty new.
• 43:11
  And it's not, I don't know if I'm in a trial or what.
• 43:14
  Because I just read that they're not fully yet you know, available.
• 43:21
  So it's, I had stem cells put into my brain.
• 43:26
  through the nasal passage on the side here.
• 43:29
  It's really interesting.
• 43:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Where, why and how?
• 43:33
  Linda Tellington Jones: And I got ketamine so that the pain was less.
• 43:38
  Rupert Isaacson: Why did you have, and who, why did you have stem cells
• 43:40
  put in your nose and who put them in?
• 43:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: Me, I put in my brain, my doctor.
• 43:44
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 43:45
  Okay.
• 43:46
  Okay.
• 43:47
  That's a big thing to say.
• 43:48
  Why?
• 43:49
  What's the story?
• 43:50
  Linda Tellington Jones: The story is that I've been dealing with Epstein Barr
• 43:53
  virus and Hashimoto's, you know, With the
• 43:57
  Rupert Isaacson: thyroid, yeah.
• 43:58
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, for more than 10 years.
• 43:59
  Okay.
• 44:00
  I, Rupert, I'm telling you, I am, there have been, the last couple of years,
• 44:06
  I haven't been able to ride, except when I go to teach, because then I'm
• 44:10
  stimulated, and I, you know, I rode, I think you heard, I rode five horses in
• 44:14
  my last training in Germany last month.
• 44:16
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I, I saw the pictures.
• 44:18
  Nuts, but amazing.
• 44:21
  Linda Tellington Jones: And no brain fog.
• 44:23
  Okay.
• 44:23
  Because this Epstein Barr, the brain fog is just, you're just fighting through,
• 44:27
  it's like you're going through water.
• 44:29
  You know, I couldn't, unless I was lying down or sitting down.
• 44:33
  That's what's so interesting.
• 44:35
  So I decided, I said to my doctor, because I've been having these dreams
• 44:42
  that I had to get mitochondria help.
• 44:45
  For years it was the oxygen and, and then I kept getting these things.
• 44:51
  No, I actually, my mitochondria are having serious problems.
• 44:55
  I've got to get some help.
• 44:57
  So I had methylene blue.
• 45:00
  Which is supposed to be a help.
• 45:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Sorry, tell us the name of that again.
• 45:05
  Linda Tellington Jones: Methylene blue.
• 45:06
  Methylene
• 45:07
  Rupert Isaacson: blue.
• 45:07
  Okay.
• 45:08
  Linda Tellington Jones: You can look it up.
• 45:09
  Yeah, I had a IV shot, but it's supposed to make your brain fog go away.
• 45:13
  It didn't.
• 45:15
  Rupert Isaacson: Did not, did not work.
• 45:16
  Linda Tellington Jones: No, didn't work.
• 45:17
  So then, and they're really expensive.
• 45:21
  And so, well, really expensive.
• 45:24
  I mean, quite expensive.
• 45:27
  So then I, he gave me drops for it.
• 45:31
  So that's what I'm taking.
• 45:32
  Then I said, it's not enough, it's not working.
• 45:34
  I've got to get help from a mitochondria, I, I don't want to go on like this.
• 45:39
  And so, like when I sit down and do an interview, like a, or do anything
• 45:44
  on, on the computer like this, I'm fine as long as I'm sitting,
• 45:49
  as soon as I get up, brain fog.
• 45:51
  And I'm saying this for a lot of people out there who've been dealing with this.
• 45:55
  So my doctor said, well, you know, there is this new thing
• 46:01
  of stem cells taken from.
• 46:04
  People between the ages of I think it's 18 and 40 from belly fat, because fat
• 46:12
  is a really good source of stem cells.
• 46:15
  And until now, and I have been wanting to tell you about this anyway, until
• 46:19
  now, they're available very expensive from what is, from, from umbilical cord.
• 46:27
  That's the best source that you can get.
• 46:29
  And they're now, they're doing a long study on autism.
• 46:33
  With some really good results at the Stem Cell Institute in Panama.
• 46:39
  And there's lots on YouTube and from Neil Reardon who developed this.
• 46:45
  So it might be something for you to look into.
• 46:50
  Yeah,
• 46:50
  Rupert Isaacson: we'll definitely look at it.
• 46:51
  And I guess what, so you, you, you, your doctor put stem cells into your brain.
• 46:57
  Through your nose.
• 46:59
  So that's the sort of what the the reverse of the egyptian mummy
• 47:02
  process where they pulled your brain out Through your nose, right?
• 47:05
  And I I presume the the point of that is stem cells help to regenerate
• 47:11
  Linda Tellington Jones: Tissue,
• 47:11
  Rupert Isaacson: right and and other cells.
• 47:13
  So was the idea that this would help with the brain fog
• 47:16
  Linda Tellington Jones: exactly
• 47:17
  Rupert Isaacson: and has it
• 47:21
  Linda Tellington Jones: Since the next morning not only have I had no brain
• 47:23
  fog, but I had the energy I mean, I couldn't stop myself from getting
• 47:27
  dressed and going to run And I've been wanting to do this ever since I got home.
• 47:34
  Rupert Isaacson: What's interesting with you is I, whenever I meet you, you know,
• 47:38
  these days we tend to meet in Germany.
• 47:40
  And you say to me this, Oh, Rupert, I've got, you know, brain
• 47:42
  fog, I'm not as young as I was.
• 47:44
  And I, then I see you jetting off somewhere else.
• 47:46
  And I think you a bit like me are often jet lagged and traveling all the time.
• 47:51
  And yet here you are almost 90.
• 47:53
  Thriving and now riding these young warm bloods again.
• 47:56
  So there must be something in it.
• 47:59
  What, so let's, let's take this then to people like yourself.
• 48:05
  One of the things that's not really talked about much within equine assisted
• 48:09
  work, people talk about kids a lot.
• 48:10
  We work a lot with kids and young adults.
• 48:12
  People talk about people with trauma, you know, so that might be a more
• 48:16
  adult population, but people don't really talk about the elderly.
• 48:20
  Linda Tellington Jones: The
• 48:21
  Rupert Isaacson: elderly, you know, sometimes you'll see someone who's had a
• 48:25
  stroke or a TBI who's older up on a horse.
• 48:29
  Generally, the older people you see on horses are people who are just older
• 48:32
  but ride, you know, and it obviously.
• 48:35
  It's therapeutic to that degree, but you don't really see programs aimed at
• 48:40
  this and I suppose perhaps that's a risk factor, people falling off or whatever,
• 48:44
  but we all know that the outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man,
• 48:49
  we all know the brain, BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor, effect of
• 48:54
  moving and problem solving, balancing, this must be good are you aware of that?
• 48:59
  of any programs that are specifically targeted for the elderly?
• 49:04
  And if not, why not?
• 49:10
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, it's a really good question.
• 49:11
  And I think probably the, the insurance and risk factors, but Rupert, one
• 49:18
  of the things that I'm seeing, and I have a friend who has no issues.
• 49:22
  She's a great therapist.
• 49:24
  And she decided to do one of these equine assisted therapies where you just.
• 49:30
  be in the presence of a horse, just sitting in a pa in a, like
• 49:36
  a pasture actually, and see if the horse has come up to you.
• 49:40
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 49:41
  Linda Tellington Jones: And it was life changing for her.
• 49:44
  And then her husband who has some fear issues did it and and for the two of them
• 49:49
  together It was amazing just being in the presence of horses But riding was not I'm,
• 49:56
  sure they wouldn't even be interested.
• 49:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, one of the reasons I ask is I actually just recently got
• 50:01
  contacted by a developer, german developer actually, but he's based out of hong
• 50:08
  kong and they are creating a retirement community in Hong Kong Chiang Mai in
• 50:14
  Thailand and you may know that we have a good horse boy movement method place in
• 50:18
  Thailand called Farm Delek and we must get Gay Pantrat who runs that place on
• 50:23
  this show actually because she's, she's done, it does incredible work and it's
• 50:27
  also an organic farm and they do amazing classical horsemanship and everything.
• 50:31
  They're, they're, they're state of the art amazing but this guy contacted
• 50:35
  me, Sebastian, and said, yeah, look Ru, we want to do a retirement
• 50:39
  community based around an equestrian.
• 50:43
  Not necessarily with the idea that Everyone who buys a house in this
• 50:49
  retirement community would ride but more Because the presence of
• 50:53
  horses seems to be so therapeutic.
• 50:55
  Maybe their grandkids want to come and ride Maybe also people from the local
• 51:00
  town want to come and ride and this creates a social life and a social hub
• 51:03
  and younger people And so on but You know, and so we're now working together to look
• 51:08
  at adapting horseboy movement method, perhaps for an age of an older population.
• 51:14
  But it does seem to me also that just in our culture, we are so youth oriented.
• 51:20
  The, my father, for example, who's 90 he's,
• 51:26
  he's very active.
• 51:28
  So when people see someone who's older, who's very active, there's
• 51:32
  this kind of, Oh, wow, that's amazing.
• 51:33
  I don't know.
• 51:34
  But in general, people past the age of about 75, maybe it's 80 these days
• 51:41
  because people are living longer.
• 51:43
  There is a bit of a, just a kind of writing off.
• 51:45
  And.
• 51:46
  This seems to me a gap really in our field, you know that the and here you are
• 51:52
  representing the older rider You know, is this something we should be looking at?
• 51:59
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, I think Thailand would be a good place.
• 52:00
  The problem in our country, so many people are overweight.
• 52:04
  You'd have to have, which isn't a problem.
• 52:07
  I mean, these warm bloods that, you know, or actually, actually, I don't mean warm
• 52:12
  bloods, cold bloods make fabulous horses.
• 52:16
  They're fun.
• 52:17
  They're so interesting to sit on and they're really impressive.
• 52:22
  And all you need is a really great ramp to get
• 52:26
  Rupert Isaacson: people.
• 52:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: I mean, you need a tall, tall ones for them, but it's,
• 52:31
  I mean, see, have, I think it would be wonderful and have different sizes of
• 52:37
  horses, like ponies for the kids, but small horses actually rather than ponies,
• 52:43
  because it's so hard to keep a pony happy, you know, people boss them around so much
• 52:49
  that, and don't treat them with respect,
• 52:51
  Rupert Isaacson: so they're
• 52:52
  Linda Tellington Jones: resentful.
• 52:53
  Yeah, but I think it's a great idea and what would be really fun is to
• 53:00
  have you could have competitions of having people leading horses through,
• 53:06
  you know, the kind of stuff that we do like through what we call it.
• 53:10
  And, and it, it so empowers people to be able to just be in the
• 53:16
  presence of that horse and to.
• 53:19
  Be able to do something together with them and
• 53:23
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah, I think this is something I think this is something
• 53:25
  maybe we should start exploring Maybe you and I should have a chat with this guy.
• 53:29
  Maybe I should bring you in on the project Let's do that.
• 53:33
  I'm talking to him tomorrow actually.
• 53:35
  Okay, let's go back to the structural side of things with the horse another
• 53:42
  The two other areas that you generally see a lot of problems with the horses that get
• 53:48
  donated for therapy backs You Of course, the back is a big thing, because there's
• 53:53
  many parts of the back, and stifle.
• 53:56
  You definitely see lots of problems through there.
• 54:00
  Somebody gets a horse, lovely character, has problems there.
• 54:07
  Talk to us about your first approaches.
• 54:09
  What would you be looking at?
• 54:15
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, the question is, I mean, what
• 54:18
  are you using for saddles?
• 54:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.
• 54:23
  Linda Tellington Jones: Because this is a thing that I find with so many horses and
• 54:28
  you saw the pictures of me on that one.
• 54:30
  It's called the German warm blood.
• 54:32
  But this, the mare has a head like an Arab, really sensitive horse.
• 54:37
  And she was brought to this clinic because she's an event horse.
• 54:41
  And the rider said she's slow.
• 54:44
  She's has, you know, no impulsion and she doesn't like me.
• 54:51
  It's just, so I asked her how she wrote her and she wrote her.
• 54:54
  You know, in the hand, like, really collected all the time,
• 55:00
  pushing her forward with the spurs.
• 55:02
  And it was really interesting, because what I did was, you know, just,
• 55:09
  first I took the bit out of her mouth and put the lindell on, so that she
• 55:13
  could ride her right away with that.
• 55:14
  And, and just let her move, and take the spurs off, and let the horse move.
• 55:20
  And it was It's such a difference we saw in the videos and, and then
• 55:25
  the next day what we did was it.
• 55:27
  Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 55:28
  This doesn't answer your question because with back problems, this is
• 55:34
  where the Beamer is really great.
• 55:36
  And you know, I've never used the pain patches on the back.
• 55:39
  I mean, what we do is work on the body, but come on, you know, you have
• 55:44
  to have somebody who wants to do that.
• 55:48
  The thing that's so often done that I've seen, I've worked on horses.
• 55:52
  I mean, Olympic level horses that have had all kinds of back injections and
• 55:58
  stuff never did a bit of good until you, you know, did the, the, today
• 56:05
  I'd use a Beamer or use T Touch.
• 56:09
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 56:09
  I would, I would say both are good.
• 56:10
  And, and those listeners who have not explored T Touch, I really would recommend
• 56:15
  you do because since knowing you Linda, we used it, we use it all the time.
• 56:23
  And it really helps.
• 56:23
  One of the things we do to help with backs and stifles and that sort of
• 56:27
  thing is we do a lot of long reining.
• 56:29
  And of course we do that as part of the, often the session.
• 56:33
  Maybe the client is long reining the horse.
• 56:36
  That's an interesting thing too.
• 56:37
  Maybe someone's being long reined on the horse and we find we can build a lot of
• 56:42
  strength and flexibility and also the in hand work And we can incorporate this
• 56:48
  into client sessions so that it's not like we're having a time conflict, you
• 56:52
  know, where oh gosh You know We've got to find this time to long rein the horse
• 56:56
  and work the horse in hand in between clients because that time doesn't exist
• 57:00
  We have to do it there in the body We have to work the horse therapeutically
• 57:05
  in as we're serving the client you when you're okay So when you you say
• 57:10
  t touch when you're using t touch on the back, let's say it's for something
• 57:16
  like thoracic kissing spine Standard thing that say a donated show jumper
• 57:20
  might have can you talk to us about the specific t touches that you would use in?
• 57:27
  that thoracic area
• 57:30
  And then we'll go down the back looking at other ones
• 57:33
  Linda Tellington Jones: Actually because I worked on a horse
• 57:38
  named Damiraz, a Canadian horse on the, on the jumping team.
• 57:43
  And he was in, they were in Ireland, and his rider came out to the stall
• 57:50
  in the morning, and this was before they kept guards on their horses, and
• 57:54
  the horse was completely crippled.
• 57:56
  I mean, it was unbelievable.
• 57:58
  They have no idea what they did to this horse, but he was, he was
• 58:02
  so sore in the back and he wound up diagnosed with kissing spine.
• 58:08
  And this is like overnight, I mean literally, not the kissing spine.
• 58:12
  So I still, when I think about that, I wonder what is going on.
• 58:16
  Anyway, I, this was a friend of my family's, and so I went and
• 58:21
  worked with the horse for a week.
• 58:23
  And after one week of work, and I'll tell you the stuff that I did with him, his vet
• 58:28
  came in and I I was riding at the time.
• 58:31
  And the horse, the vet did not recognize the horse.
• 58:35
  And because his movement was so different and he didn't, he was,
• 58:39
  his pain in the back was fine.
• 58:41
  And it, it's just, I was doing the belly lifts and the circles on the
• 58:45
  back and in the riding, allowing the horse to move, you know, to
• 58:50
  move in a, in a different way.
• 58:53
  And this thing of riding the horses, without, with, with the liberty rings
• 58:58
  as Ileana is doing so much with.
• 59:00
  It allows the horses to go down and stretch their backs when they
• 59:03
  want to, and that's the thing it can make so much difference.
• 59:07
  That's what, and this lick of the cow's tongue, and I believe now with
• 59:13
  this new, are you following all this new studies of fascia in horses?
• 59:18
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes, but there's a question I got from something you
• 59:21
  said earlier, so just, just go on and then I'm going to dial back in a
• 59:25
  Linda Tellington Jones: I mean, what I'm realizing what we're really
• 59:27
  affecting is the fascia and also the nuchal ligament, because the which
• 59:32
  Rupert Isaacson: ligament,
• 59:33
  Linda Tellington Jones: the nuchal ligament,
• 59:35
  Rupert Isaacson: the one over the, over the, where the, where the
• 59:37
  skull meets the spine, exactly,
• 59:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: Rupert, last month, I found, I think it
• 59:43
  was on Instagram, a veterinarian showing, I'm sure it was, I'm pretty
• 59:48
  sure she was, but I can't find it.
• 59:50
  It showed the skeleton of the horse and the ligament attached.
• 59:54
  And showed what's happening to the stretching of that ligament when the
• 59:58
  horses are overbent and over, you know, really over periods of time.
• 1:00:03
  Plus, what she wasn't talking about is what's happening when they're ridden
• 1:00:08
  in this extreme collection over time.
• 1:00:10
  What happens to the fascia and that it actually stiffens.
• 1:00:15
  And that's the other thing that's out there now.
• 1:00:17
  I mean, this is all like really new information, new ways of seeing things.
• 1:00:22
  And that's why, like, allowing the horse to stretch and move at times,
• 1:00:27
  not always, you know, not behind the vertical makes a huge, huge difference.
• 1:00:32
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm, mm, mm.
• 1:00:32
  And, and, well, yeah.
• 1:00:34
  So, for example, this is so true in competition riding.
• 1:00:37
  But it's also true, I think, in therapeutic ridings, people aren't
• 1:00:39
  trail riding their horses in between.
• 1:00:41
  So, of course, if you trail ride your horse on a loose
• 1:00:43
  rein, what's he going to do?
• 1:00:45
  He's going to stretch, he's going to look around, he's going to,
• 1:00:47
  you know, prick his ears up and look at something in the distance.
• 1:00:49
  He's going to sniff something on the ground.
• 1:00:52
  You're going to allow all that because you're just trail riding.
• 1:00:56
  Of course, if you never trail ride the horse or hand walk the horse out
• 1:00:59
  in a halter, say, when, when is the horse going to get a chance to do that?
• 1:01:03
  You say, well, maybe in the field, but as we know, a lot of horses are
• 1:01:06
  still living in boxes, you know?
• 1:01:09
  So, okay.
• 1:01:10
  You said something about the lick of the cow's tongue.
• 1:01:13
  Linda Tellington Jones: Right.
• 1:01:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Helping with this Thoracic area.
• 1:01:15
  Tell us what is that?
• 1:01:17
  Linda Tellington Jones: So you, you start just behind the elbow on the midline
• 1:01:22
  of the horse and take your flat hand and slide the hand up and then turn
• 1:01:27
  the hand so the fingers are pointed now upward over the top of the spine.
• 1:01:34
  So you start underneath, you know, the palm.
• 1:01:36
  Starting
• 1:01:36
  Rupert Isaacson: under the belly.
• 1:01:37
  Linda Tellington Jones: Under the belly, right on the midline under the belly.
• 1:01:40
  So
• 1:01:40
  Rupert Isaacson: you're stroking from front to back or back to front.
• 1:01:43
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yes, you're stroking from underneath.
• 1:01:45
  You come up, you know, just up to the ribs and then turn your hand and stroke up.
• 1:01:52
  So this
• 1:01:52
  Rupert Isaacson: would be like the long, along the line of
• 1:01:53
  the girth to the saddle area.
• 1:01:55
  Linda Tellington Jones: That's right.
• 1:01:56
  And then you go back like four inches and do it and you work all the way back.
• 1:02:01
  Like,
• 1:02:01
  Rupert Isaacson: okay.
• 1:02:02
  All the way down the belly, almost like you're painting the horse
• 1:02:05
  from the, with your palm from the,
• 1:02:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: from the under
• 1:02:08
  Rupert Isaacson: to the top.
• 1:02:09
  Linda Tellington Jones: Other side of the back.
• 1:02:10
  That's right.
• 1:02:11
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you then go over the spine to the other
• 1:02:13
  side of the back with your hand.
• 1:02:14
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:02:15
  Okay.
• 1:02:16
  It's just connecting to the spine.
• 1:02:18
  Okay.
• 1:02:20
  And then you, just every hand width back to the flank.
• 1:02:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:02:25
  Tell me, tell us what this does.
• 1:02:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: What it does, it, it, if you've got a horse who's spooky
• 1:02:31
  or sensitive, you do it really lightly so that they, so they, you show them
• 1:02:36
  that you know that they're sensitive.
• 1:02:38
  And so instead of desensitizing them so that you put them through something and
• 1:02:44
  they just stand there and hold their breath, you get them to the point that
• 1:02:48
  they're comfortable with it and accept it.
• 1:02:50
  And then I've, I've seen it on horses who are stiff, for instance, or horses
• 1:02:55
  that are, Maybe worked hard or just now what I understand is happening
• 1:03:00
  is that the fascia is hardened.
• 1:03:02
  Because that can happen in these.
• 1:03:04
  When you, you're gonna be so excited when you, I'll, I'll find the poem
• 1:03:09
  via YouTube because I've looked at lots of them and there's one that
• 1:03:13
  is really shows the history of it and then what's happening in these
• 1:03:18
  cases where there's lack of movement.
• 1:03:20
  Because the fascia, they're like elastic spiderwebs through all the muscles and
• 1:03:26
  the body and so when the horse just stands so much and and they're not worked.
• 1:03:33
  It's really interesting.
• 1:03:34
  They harden.
• 1:03:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 1:03:37
  I think I think this is the same in people too.
• 1:03:39
  Yeah
• 1:03:39
  Linda Tellington Jones: Totally sedentary
• 1:03:40
  Rupert Isaacson: lifestyle.
• 1:03:40
  Yeah hardens up the
• 1:03:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: fascia Yeah, and that that's what's happening
• 1:03:44
  when when people sit at the computers all the time or down with
• 1:03:49
  Rupert Isaacson: their phone
• 1:03:49
  Linda Tellington Jones: They're stretching that fascia And
• 1:03:52
  also, of course, that ligament.
• 1:03:55
  So it's really interesting.
• 1:03:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:03:59
  Linda Tellington Jones: Thank God for beamer is all I can say for me.
• 1:04:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, no kidding.
• 1:04:04
  Okay.
• 1:04:04
  So Beamer's the, the, the lick of the cow's tongue, the, the,
• 1:04:08
  the, the circle and a quarter movements down the horse's spine.
• 1:04:12
  Let's go to the stifle.
• 1:04:13
  Because I think this is an area that a lot of people don't really look at.
• 1:04:17
  And you know how it is.
• 1:04:17
  Once you start looking at horses stifles, you can never like
• 1:04:21
  ever see a sound horse again.
• 1:04:23
  And you know, so to my mind, whenever I'm looking at horses, they're never sound.
• 1:04:27
  They've always got something.
• 1:04:29
  And my question is always, can I work with that something?
• 1:04:32
  Or how will I work with that something?
• 1:04:34
  Just like me.
• 1:04:35
  I mean, if you look at me walking, I'm not sound but I can go on a long
• 1:04:39
  distance walking trip, but you're going to have to work with me a little bit.
• 1:04:42
  So talk about, talk to us about stifles.
• 1:04:46
  Talk to us about the approach there.
• 1:04:50
  Linda Tellington Jones: So this is where I see the body differently
• 1:04:53
  and that's unique about T Touch.
• 1:04:55
  The cons, my, how I started to see this is that I'm totally aware as I'm
• 1:05:03
  touching that body that when a, when there's ideal function in the body,
• 1:05:09
  there's communication between the cells
• 1:05:11
  Rupert Isaacson: with
• 1:05:12
  Linda Tellington Jones: pain or discomfort or fear, stiffness, dysfunction, then the
• 1:05:17
  communication between the health cells is inhibited and the body's absolute ability
• 1:05:24
  to take care of itself doesn't happen because of the inhibition of pain or fear.
• 1:05:32
  or lack of, or, or fear of pain, even in the horse.
• 1:05:36
  So this is where our two touches really come in with the concept.
• 1:05:41
  And this is Rupert different since I last saw you, I finally got a
• 1:05:46
  different understanding of why we can release fear and pain in ourselves
• 1:05:51
  or in other people or in our animals with this one and a quarter circle.
• 1:05:57
  And should I tell you the story?
• 1:05:59
  This is, is this getting too far off?
• 1:06:01
  Rupert Isaacson: No, please.
• 1:06:02
  Linda Tellington Jones: Okay.
• 1:06:03
  So, I mean, all these years, we've been able to help people, just kids, just,
• 1:06:10
  they've got a bang, you know, they fall down on a, and hit a rock with their
• 1:06:15
  knee, and years ago, when I hear this story from one of our subscribers,
• 1:06:20
  long time teachers of the work when her son was like six or seven he fell
• 1:06:25
  down and she was going to kiss his knee right he said no mama t touch
• 1:06:29
  it raised on t touch and this is what many of our people who've been teachers
• 1:06:36
  and teaching kids in the classroom
• 1:06:38
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah
• 1:06:39
  Linda Tellington Jones: pain just put the fingers on and may and move the
• 1:06:43
  fingers in one and a quarter circles and you will reduce that pain or the fear in
• 1:06:48
  your body And we've seen this for years.
• 1:06:50
  I mean, this is just amazing.
• 1:06:52
  So, what, how have I changed my realization now?
• 1:06:58
  Oh my gosh!
• 1:06:59
  You know, all these years I kept asking, What is the reason we
• 1:07:03
  can reduce this fear and pain?
• 1:07:05
  And I'm going to show you one book that is just amazing.
• 1:07:09
  First of all, how I got started on this whole concept of cellular wisdom,
• 1:07:14
  of cellular intelligence was one book that I've got here sitting, it's at
• 1:07:19
  the far end of my table actually.
• 1:07:21
  It's called Man on His Nature, and it's Sir Charles Sherrington,
• 1:07:24
  and Sherrington won a Nobel.
• 1:07:25
  Man
• 1:07:26
  Rupert Isaacson: on His Nature, Sir Charles Sherrington.
• 1:07:29
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, and it's the only non scientific book that he wrote.
• 1:07:34
  He's written many, many books.
• 1:07:36
  He won a Nobel Prize, and In this book the, and I can't find it, I got the
• 1:07:43
  definite impression, I know I was sitting in Morvenpach restaurant in Stuttgart,
• 1:07:47
  Germany in February of 1976 when I read whatever it was that inspired me to
• 1:07:54
  realize that he said, he said, look, if you cut yourself, think about it,
• 1:07:59
  the body, the cells know how to send healing, whatever it takes to heal that.
• 1:08:05
  And so I sat up and I thought, holy mackerel.
• 1:08:10
  Wait a minute, when I don't yet know how to do miracles of change in the
• 1:08:15
  physical structure of a human, like I had seen Moshe Feldenkrais do in our
• 1:08:20
  training at the Humanistic Psychology Institute the summer before, I
• 1:08:24
  thought, all I have to do is say cells.
• 1:08:26
  Just touch this body and remind these cells of their
• 1:08:29
  potential for ideal function.
• 1:08:32
  And that's how I started looking at the body.
• 1:08:35
  Instead of looking at it from the Feldenkrais concept of the nervous system,
• 1:08:40
  I started looking at it from the cellular intelligence through the whole body.
• 1:08:45
  And so, that's what's behind all the stuff that I do.
• 1:08:51
  But then, two, three years ago, Get this book.
• 1:08:56
  The Code of Authentic Living Cellular
• 1:08:59
  Rupert Isaacson: Wisdom.
• 1:08:59
  And the first chapter, the
• 1:09:01
  Linda Tellington Jones: first sentence in the first chapter
• 1:09:03
  begins with, Every cell is a genius.
• 1:09:07
  This is the same thing, you know, that Sherrington said all those
• 1:09:11
  years before, that had actually set up my whole life and the work I do
• 1:09:18
  with people and animals and myself.
• 1:09:20
  And so what enhances and what changed me, what made me realize this, wait a
• 1:09:26
  minute, I just, where did I put this?
• 1:09:29
  I had this yesterday.
• 1:09:31
  Anyway, it's on the back of this book.
• 1:09:33
  I'm going to, I'm going to tell you this because it changed my
• 1:09:37
  life, this, back of this book.
• 1:09:41
  So, and, and the reason it's important, this author for 20
• 1:09:46
  years sought, taught cell biology at Tufts University of Medicine.
• 1:09:50
  for listening.
• 1:09:51
  And she wrote that, Here is one legend of how wisdom came
• 1:09:55
  to be hidden from all humans.
• 1:09:58
  Upon up Upon rubbing up against the legend, Joan C.
• 1:10:02
  King asked herself, What if, in all my academic studies of cells,
• 1:10:07
  I've missed the depth, the deeper truth of what I'm really seeking?
• 1:10:12
  It was that question that led Joan beyond the academic
• 1:10:16
  search for the wisdom embedded.
• 1:10:18
  In our very selves to the discovery of cellular wisdom and the journey within.
• 1:10:24
  According to an old Hindu legend, there was once upon a time when
• 1:10:27
  all human beings were gods.
• 1:10:30
  But they so abused their divinity that Brahma, the chief god, decided
• 1:10:35
  to take it away from them and hide it where it could never be found.
• 1:10:41
  Where to hide their divinity was the question.
• 1:10:43
  So Brahma called a council of the gods to help him decide.
• 1:10:47
  Let's bury it deep in the earth, said the gods, that Brahma.
• 1:10:51
  And Brahma answered, No, they will, that will not do, because humans
• 1:10:56
  will dig into the earth and find it.
• 1:10:58
  I'm having a little trouble because the light isn't on,
• 1:11:01
  and the light Not so good here.
• 1:11:03
  So anyway, then another one said, okay, we'll take, I know what we'll do, we'll
• 1:11:07
  drop it in the deepest part of the ocean.
• 1:11:09
  No, they'll find it.
• 1:11:11
  Another said, we'll go to the deepest cave on the planet and
• 1:11:15
  dig deeper and leave it there.
• 1:11:16
  No, no, humans are very intelligent.
• 1:11:18
  They will find it.
• 1:11:19
  So he thought long and hard and said, finally said, you know, I know where
• 1:11:24
  we'll hide it and they'll never find it.
• 1:11:27
  We'll hide it within.
• 1:11:29
  And so the legend goes, People have been running up and down the mountains, digging
• 1:11:34
  in the dirt, going in the deep part of the ocean, always looking for what's inside.
• 1:11:40
  And that just so connected with me, Rupert, because of what I learned,
• 1:11:45
  you know, all those years ago in 1976 from Sir Charles Sherrington,
• 1:11:50
  this Nobel Prize recipient.
• 1:11:53
  And so what I see now, When this, when we put our fingers on the body and realize
• 1:12:01
  that every cell in this hand, every cell in my body knows its function in the body
• 1:12:07
  and communicates according to Bruce, Dr.
• 1:12:10
  Bruce Lipton.
• 1:12:11
  So what, what he writes in there is one chapter on the development of cells,
• 1:12:15
  the cells, and how cells communicate, and you can prove it in a Petri dish,
• 1:12:19
  like they can live alone for about two weeks, a single cell, but after
• 1:12:24
  that they die, because they need this communication, and the premise of
• 1:12:29
  the book is that if we humans would recognize our necessity for connection
• 1:12:34
  and communication, we could be in peace.
• 1:12:37
  It's so interesting, and so what And I, when I read this, this, and this book, The
• 1:12:44
  Code of Authentic Living Cellular Wisdom, I started thinking, come on, my Christian
• 1:12:53
  friends will not care what a Hindu says.
• 1:12:57
  It must be somewhere in the Bible.
• 1:12:59
  And I have a friend whose husband is a Bible studier.
• 1:13:04
  And so I called him and he said, it is, it's in the, the King
• 1:13:09
  James version of the Bible.
• 1:13:10
  And it's something to the effect that.
• 1:13:13
  The, the God is within and all around us.
• 1:13:17
  And it's the same, actually, I've, I've, I have other friends, Jewish
• 1:13:21
  friends who say the same kind of self wisdom is in our religion also.
• 1:13:27
  It's in the teachings.
• 1:13:28
  So it's everywhere.
• 1:13:29
  And so what, Rupert, when I put my fingers on my own skin now, and I gently move the
• 1:13:35
  skin because you, it's not going over it.
• 1:13:37
  You move the skin in this basic.
• 1:13:41
  spiral circle in a certain tempo, then it's like taking a key and
• 1:13:47
  turning a lock that opens to enter a door into this phenomenal divine
• 1:13:53
  wisdom in every cell in our body.
• 1:13:56
  And you know, it's so interesting because in, in the book called Uncommon
• 1:14:02
  Prayer by Ruth Miller, there's a one page that that says that in between
• 1:14:09
  the stuff that makes up the universe.
• 1:14:12
  This is a whole book on quantum science, actually.
• 1:14:15
  In between the stuff that makes up the universe is not just empty space.
• 1:14:19
  Holding it all together is a wonderful, rich, quantum field.
• 1:14:25
  Many scientists call this consciousness, or intelligence, and the rest of the
• 1:14:31
  world calls this God, or, from my point of view, source, divine spirit, all it
• 1:14:38
  is, whatever universal knowing, all it is.
• 1:14:42
  And I just realized this is why when I recognize this in my horse, I'm working
• 1:14:47
  on this, this horse that has a back issue and I'm not seeing the issue.
• 1:14:53
  This is the important part about understanding if I focus on the, on, on
• 1:14:59
  the problem, I'm not going to get this.
• 1:15:03
  Recognition of this intelligence that I'm putting my hands on,
• 1:15:07
  this amazing wonder that we are.
• 1:15:09
  And that's all I have to do is recognize that.
• 1:15:12
  And working with people who have disabilities, I know that you do this.
• 1:15:16
  I mean, kids, or people on the autism spectrum, when I look at them, I see that
• 1:15:21
  divine wisdom in every cell in the body.
• 1:15:24
  And when I am with them, just like when you all, thinking in this
• 1:15:27
  way, are with these people, they feel themselves in a different way.
• 1:15:31
  It's a gift, or when we look at that horse that has a problem, that's
• 1:15:35
  there to help us, and we see their beauty, no matter what they look
• 1:15:39
  like, something different happens.
• 1:15:42
  That's what excites me about what you're doing, because you know
• 1:15:46
  what happens beyond what we see.
• 1:15:50
  Rupert Isaacson: I do.
• 1:15:51
  What's interesting, I think, it's not, here's, this is, just as you say, okay,
• 1:15:59
  intelligence that's within each cell.
• 1:16:04
  That's.
• 1:16:05
  Got to be because they function so well, right?
• 1:16:09
  And When you look at the therapeutic world
• 1:16:18
  With the best of intentions
• 1:16:23
  what we talk about we use the words like disorder disease
• 1:16:30
  Even though they may not be disorders at all
• 1:16:35
  That's the vocabulary that we get given and then we start using it and
• 1:16:39
  then there's always a point I think what all of us as practitioners go.
• 1:16:42
  Hold on isn't really a disorder This is just a personality type.
• 1:16:46
  This is a way of being this is a you know, okay It comes with some
• 1:16:49
  challenges, but show me something that doesn't let's let's let's work towards
• 1:16:57
  What you would call what you just called, you know optimal what to me is
• 1:17:03
  always the issue is not the condition.
• 1:17:07
  So let's say the person has autism.
• 1:17:10
  Well, when I was first wondering what to do with my son, I looked for
• 1:17:18
  an autistic mentor and found one.
• 1:17:21
  Dr.
• 1:17:21
  Temple Grandin, who was very autistic and much more economically successful
• 1:17:26
  than many other people I knew and I thought, Oh, this is great because
• 1:17:30
  you can be like that and do fine.
• 1:17:34
  So therefore the problem cannot be autism and then I began to work with,
• 1:17:41
  you know, other conditions and again, frequently I would meet people who
• 1:17:46
  had these conditions who were actually leading great lives so, so that it would
• 1:17:50
  not despite the condition often, perhaps because of it in some certain ways.
• 1:17:55
  So more and more, and then I started looking at physical disabilities.
• 1:17:59
  There's that word again.
• 1:18:00
  And I realized that no, no, no, no.
• 1:18:04
  The, the problem.
• 1:18:07
  is the suffering is associated with some of the challenges these things can have.
• 1:18:16
  But the problem is literally that suffering.
• 1:18:20
  So what is the opposite of suffering?
• 1:18:23
  Joy.
• 1:18:25
  Where do you see joy on the equine training scale?
• 1:18:29
  You don't see it.
• 1:18:31
  Where do you see joy on the, in the therapeutic literature
• 1:18:37
  for therapeutic riding?
• 1:18:39
  You don't see it.
• 1:18:40
  Where do you see joy in You know, how to tackle autism, or how to
• 1:18:44
  tackle PTSD, you don't see it.
• 1:18:47
  But the opposite of suffering has to be joy.
• 1:18:52
  So it seems to me that what you're talking about here is, obviously, we
• 1:18:57
  associate joy as an emotional state, but how can you have that emotional state if
• 1:19:01
  you don't have it as a physical state?
• 1:19:04
  Linda Tellington Jones: Simple.
• 1:19:06
  Rupert Isaacson: So go ahead.
• 1:19:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: Gratitude.
• 1:19:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, gratitude.
• 1:19:10
  Talk to us about the connection, please, between gratitude, joy, and physical,
• 1:19:15
  optimal, cellular, and mental health.
• 1:19:18
  Health,
• 1:19:20
  Linda Tellington Jones: you know in horses what I look for now is how
• 1:19:24
  can I get the sparkle in their eyes?
• 1:19:26
  Yeah, get them so that they're interested.
• 1:19:29
  They're curious.
• 1:19:30
  They're Appreciative of what we're doing.
• 1:19:32
  They're enjoying whatever i'm doing together
• 1:19:35
  Rupert Isaacson: even a bit of devilry, but devilry that's working with you
• 1:19:37
  not against you Yeah, yeah, sure
• 1:19:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: I have to tell you this.
• 1:19:41
  I saw the most amazing and they promised me they'd send me this photo because
• 1:19:45
  somebody caught it on You on film.
• 1:19:47
  We wouldn't have known it otherwise.
• 1:19:49
  This horse in Italy last week, I sent you a picture of that
• 1:19:53
  big gray it was sitting on.
• 1:19:54
  Yes.
• 1:19:55
  Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of me riding him.
• 1:19:58
  But he came, this is a beautiful rehab center with, with vets
• 1:20:03
  who are both our teachers.
• 1:20:05
  I mean, T Touch, Tellington Method teachers.
• 1:20:08
  And so, They took this horse in rehab because he was having
• 1:20:13
  a constant tendon problem.
• 1:20:16
  And his owner really loves this horse and knew that he would never recover to
• 1:20:20
  be a Grand Prix, and that's all she's interested in, is Grand Prix jumpers.
• 1:20:23
  So she, the horse was given to Massimo Duret and Sylvia Materasson, his
• 1:20:30
  wife, and their daughter, who's 16.
• 1:20:33
  So when I got there, and the problem with the horse, He just, he's a big horse,
• 1:20:39
  he grew fast, he's heavy muscled, and he would he didn't want to go forward,
• 1:20:45
  and he had a tendency to what people call bucking, but kicking up, you know,
• 1:20:49
  going into the canter when you stick a spur in him, you know how horses do that.
• 1:20:55
  So it really scared his rider, because she's used to ponies, she's just graduated
• 1:21:00
  to horses maybe a year and a half ago.
• 1:21:03
  So, so I worked with him and like he had no feeling in his body when you would
• 1:21:08
  check to see, like his sensitivity, it's like he didn't feel himself.
• 1:21:13
  It was really interesting.
• 1:21:14
  So, we then rode him in the Lindell, got the bit out of his mouth,
• 1:21:20
  and did some work on his body.
• 1:21:22
  This is where we did tarantulas, which is this movement, it can't, it, it's, you
• 1:21:27
  just take your, Like, I'm holding my arm up and I'm doing a movement, forefinger,
• 1:21:33
  middle finger, forefinger, middle finger.
• 1:21:36
  Like a
• 1:21:36
  Rupert Isaacson: spider walking up your body.
• 1:21:38
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yes, a two legged spider.
• 1:21:40
  Rupert Isaacson: A two legged spider, okay.
• 1:21:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: We actually call this tarantulas pulling the
• 1:21:44
  pile, because I love tarantulas.
• 1:21:46
  Two legged tarantulas.
• 1:21:48
  And the little feet go along about, oh, an inch and a half apart.
• 1:21:52
  and make an indentation so that you can feel little feet and that activates the
• 1:21:58
  neural impulses and then we calm them with a plow, the thumb dragging like along.
• 1:22:06
  Rupert Isaacson: So the two fingers are walking, that's, I'm just describing what,
• 1:22:09
  what I'm seeing here to the, the viewers.
• 1:22:11
  She's, Linda's walking her middle finger, her index finger along her arm, but
• 1:22:15
  she's dragging the heel of her I heard she's dragging her thumb along behind,
• 1:22:24
  Linda Tellington Jones: like tarantulas
• 1:22:25
  Rupert Isaacson: pulling a plow.
• 1:22:26
  Yeah, okay, got it.
• 1:22:26
  Yeah.
• 1:22:27
  It does feel nice.
• 1:22:28
  Yeah.
• 1:22:28
  Yeah.
• 1:22:29
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the thing is, it comes from the
• 1:22:31
  concept of tuaka, or skin rolling.
• 1:22:34
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:22:36
  Linda Tellington Jones: And that was something that the
• 1:22:37
  Mongols did over the knees.
• 1:22:39
  They rolled the skin of their warriors over, it said, this is a legend, I
• 1:22:43
  don't know if it's true, but that's what one of the centers I went to says.
• 1:22:49
  In order to release the fear of death so it's an organization That does where
• 1:22:55
  Rupert Isaacson: did you hear that story?
• 1:22:56
  Sorry the mongol
• 1:22:58
  Linda Tellington Jones: in in london to release
• 1:23:00
  Rupert Isaacson: the fear of death That's so interesting
• 1:23:03
  Linda Tellington Jones: called chuaka
• 1:23:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Chuaka.
• 1:23:05
  Okay.
• 1:23:05
  I'm gonna i'm looking up.
• 1:23:06
  Please keep going
• 1:23:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: If if I remember correctly, this is like 40 years ago but
• 1:23:13
  so what happened when I when I I maybe I read that somewhere first, so I got
• 1:23:19
  the name of this organization, I was in Germany at the time when I read it, and
• 1:23:25
  I flew to London and I had a session.
• 1:23:27
  Rupert, I am ticked off till this day that I paid them for
• 1:23:32
  the pain they put me through.
• 1:23:34
  I broke it off in the middle because they wanted to lift the skin away
• 1:23:40
  from the fascia on your chest because they said that will release your,
• 1:23:44
  any unwanted emotions you have.
• 1:23:47
  Yeah.
• 1:23:48
  It, it, it released my kill emotion.
• 1:23:54
  I did want to have that.
• 1:23:56
  It was terrible.
• 1:23:57
  It was so painful.
• 1:23:58
  Anyway.
• 1:23:58
  So, but I, you know, I was really influenced by this concept of the Mongols.
• 1:24:03
  Yeah.
• 1:24:04
  They obviously knew what they were doing.
• 1:24:06
  So I started experimenting with it on myself, and instead of trying to
• 1:24:10
  tear the skin away from the fascia, I just rolled wherever it was easy
• 1:24:17
  to pick up the skin, or just made a little, like a little furrow.
• 1:24:22
  And I realize today, looking at these things I'm now studying
• 1:24:26
  about fascia, how interesting that is, because that, that may, that
• 1:24:32
  must have an effect on the fascia.
• 1:24:35
  And if you do it in a way that is kind and not painful, I believe
• 1:24:41
  there's something different happens.
• 1:24:43
  Because I think when we create pain, it doesn't make sense
• 1:24:47
  to me to traumatize ourselves.
• 1:24:51
  Rupert Isaacson: No, I agree.
• 1:24:52
  I agree.
• 1:24:53
  You know,
• 1:24:57
  I think we need you as a standard textbook consultant within the field,
• 1:25:05
  you know, as the, as the field of.
• 1:25:09
  Equine assisted stuff.
• 1:25:10
  It's starting to come so much into the mainstream now that people are looking to
• 1:25:15
  regulate it and in some ways, that's good.
• 1:25:18
  And in some ways, that's not good as always.
• 1:25:20
  Right?
• 1:25:21
  And but it's happening.
• 1:25:23
  So there it is.
• 1:25:25
  And you could argue that, you know, that was what Germany did very
• 1:25:29
  early on with the Curatorium for Therapeutic Riding that operates there.
• 1:25:34
  Sort of as a wing of the government, but
• 1:25:37
  Linda Tellington Jones: and Rupert, I just want to interrupt you a moment.
• 1:25:40
  Yeah.
• 1:25:41
  You know, I started working with the therapeutic writing in Switzerland.
• 1:25:45
  It was the biggest one in Europe at the time.
• 1:25:48
  It had to be 1976 or 7.
• 1:25:53
  Mm
• 1:25:55
  Rupert Isaacson: hmm.
• 1:25:57
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the thing that got me, they weren't
• 1:26:00
  paying attention to the emotional health of the horse or physical.
• 1:26:08
  The horses were really, well, you know what you're doing?
• 1:26:10
  Look at that is, do this, add to what you're doing, Rupert, make a
• 1:26:15
  circle and then hold the skin so it doesn't push up and stretch it.
• 1:26:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:26:22
  Linda just saw that on the zoom that I was stretching the skin of my forehead.
• 1:26:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:26:27
  The
• 1:26:28
  Rupert Isaacson: self soothing thing.
• 1:26:29
  Okay.
• 1:26:29
  Linda Tellington Jones: And you'll stretch it a little more if one hand
• 1:26:32
  hold, like, circle with your right.
• 1:26:33
  Holds the
• 1:26:33
  Rupert Isaacson: eyebrow.
• 1:26:34
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, and then hold and then slide up.
• 1:26:37
  And it's really, I mean, if you do it on one side of the face and then look
• 1:26:42
  in the mirror, you won't believe it.
• 1:26:44
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:26:45
  Linda Tellington Jones: And I think we're affecting the fascia
• 1:26:47
  in a way that is really wonderful.
• 1:26:51
  Yes.
• 1:26:52
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so I'm doing this now and it does feel good.
• 1:26:54
  I'm holding my finger sort of along the eyebrow and then I'm running the
• 1:27:00
  other fingers of the other hand up.
• 1:27:02
  giving my skin a stretch, but let's go back to this place in
• 1:27:05
  Switzerland while I do this.
• 1:27:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: So I was teaching them T touch for their
• 1:27:10
  horses to, you know, for back, for just keep their back supple
• 1:27:14
  Rupert Isaacson: and
• 1:27:15
  Linda Tellington Jones: less pain.
• 1:27:17
  Not that everybody, not every horse has pain, but.
• 1:27:19
  You know, that is, you know, how many people, how many people
• 1:27:23
  are without pain in the back?
• 1:27:24
  Indeed.
• 1:27:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Indeed.
• 1:27:25
  Linda Tellington Jones: I mean, that's the truth of it.
• 1:27:27
  So we can do something about it.
• 1:27:29
  So anyway, I worked with them a lot.
• 1:27:31
  And that's when I remember really being so aware, regulated or not, man,
• 1:27:40
  Rupert, there were a lot of horses in a state of what I will call discomfort.
• 1:27:47
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:27:48
  Linda Tellington Jones: And not recognized.
• 1:27:50
  And when I, I can remember, I wish I remember her name.
• 1:27:54
  I remember with an Arab mare that was just lovely.
• 1:27:57
  She was so unhappy.
• 1:27:59
  She was just used.
• 1:28:01
  And all she had to do was start thanking her for what they're doing.
• 1:28:06
  And the mare changed.
• 1:28:08
  We, this is where we have to give gratitude and count our blessings.
• 1:28:13
  And just thank the horse.
• 1:28:15
  All you have to do is thank the horse.
• 1:28:17
  Rupert Isaacson: You know what's interesting with this
• 1:28:19
  is we talked about suffering.
• 1:28:21
  So we want to alleviate suffering.
• 1:28:24
  Okay, that's our job Suffering the opposite of suffering is what we must
• 1:28:29
  be there for going towards that must be there for joy Which is not in any of the
• 1:28:34
  literature that way I've been given to use and then What is what is the secret
• 1:28:41
  of joy, of course, but gratitude law of attraction, you know If you are grateful
• 1:28:48
  for things and you turn your attention to those things So more of those things
• 1:28:52
  tend to come into your life, obviously
• 1:28:56
  and I think that People do feel that they thank their horses.
• 1:29:00
  I mean, people, good boy, you know, pat the horse and the, you
• 1:29:04
  know, you hear people say, Oh, you shouldn't pat your horse.
• 1:29:06
  But I don't know about that because I think anything that's that's, Oh,
• 1:29:09
  you hear people, you hear people say opinions about everything.
• 1:29:12
  Right.
• 1:29:13
  And you know, who God knows why, but there'll probably
• 1:29:17
  be someone listening to this.
• 1:29:18
  Oh yes.
• 1:29:18
  I'll tell you why it's so bad.
• 1:29:20
  But if it's a, if it's an emotional expression of gratitude, if somebody
• 1:29:25
  pats me on the back, I might perhaps prefer to have a massage or a tea
• 1:29:30
  touch But I absolutely accept the pat on the back as a as it makes me feel
• 1:29:35
  joyful because they're communicating their joy and their gratitude So
• 1:29:38
  we're communicating an emotion.
• 1:29:40
  That's positive Okay So I think people do feel that they do this and they scratch
• 1:29:45
  on their horses and love on their horses and give their horses Treats and you know
• 1:29:49
  pull on their ears if the horse likes that pull on the tail of the horse I
• 1:29:52
  think a lot of people really do do this.
• 1:29:54
  However, I think You In institutional settings, there
• 1:30:00
  often isn't the time for this.
• 1:30:03
  And when people are coming, clients are coming, and there's this perception, well,
• 1:30:09
  you're coming for this hour or whatever of sport or therapy or instruction.
• 1:30:14
  So this hour has got to be filled with the service.
• 1:30:20
  And it's not perceived.
• 1:30:24
  As a service, as part of the service to teach this gratitude.
• 1:30:27
  But it's so interesting that you say this because what I frequently do, if I
• 1:30:31
  can tell someone's in a bit of a not so great mood when they come in just for a
• 1:30:37
  regular riding lesson with me is I have them do a ride of a ride of appreciation.
• 1:30:42
  So for the first time, you know, I say, Hey, look, I can tell.
• 1:30:47
  You're a bit stressed, you know, let's for four minutes, just ride around the
• 1:30:52
  track of the arena, noticing anything that you're grateful for and it doesn't even
• 1:30:57
  have to be to do with your horse, right?
• 1:30:59
  It could just be the way the lights coming in through the window or the landscape
• 1:31:04
  that you can see beyond the window or, or it could be the horse or it could be
• 1:31:07
  something about the way the light hits the main or it could be the horse itself.
• 1:31:11
  But let's think, and I'll usually say, let's think of five things.
• 1:31:16
  That we're grateful for in this moment that may be to do with what the horse
• 1:31:20
  or what's happening here Or could be something else and I usually will
• 1:31:23
  leave I say i'll start, you know I'm grateful and usually what I'll say is
• 1:31:26
  i'm grateful for the fact that you are here Riding with me because thank you.
• 1:31:31
  Thank you for trusting me and i'm grateful for the fact that I live
• 1:31:34
  with horses This is wonderful.
• 1:31:35
  It's an amazing thing It was always my dream as a kid to have this equestrian
• 1:31:38
  life and now here I live it and And of course I remind myself to do this.
• 1:31:44
  But do I do it every time?
• 1:31:48
  And do I, I think I do more and more now, at least in my, in my head.
• 1:31:54
  And do I communicate this to my horses all the time?
• 1:31:57
  I think I try to now, but I think you drawing our attention to this,
• 1:32:04
  where it's really helpful is in an institutional setting where you are
• 1:32:09
  actually really trying to serve this person or this horse really well.
• 1:32:15
  I think it's a forgotten thing or an overlooked thing.
• 1:32:19
  To say well part of that service is to engender emotional well being and
• 1:32:25
  here is a tool So why don't we set aside a certain amount of time of this
• 1:32:30
  session to engender this well being?
• 1:32:33
  Here's a tool.
• 1:32:34
  It's called gratitude.
• 1:32:35
  You know, I think that's a very powerful statement that you made
• 1:32:39
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, I think you see the thing is when it
• 1:32:43
  becomes institutionalized You want,
• 1:32:49
  I think this is where it's really important to add in this concept of
• 1:32:55
  releasing fear at the cellular level.
• 1:32:58
  And the, this, this is what we found that we can do with
• 1:33:02
  the one and a quarter circles.
• 1:33:04
  And how you can prove it is with the HeartMath M Wave.
• 1:33:10
  Because it puts us in the parasympathetic state of heart coherence.
• 1:33:15
  And it is the highest state for learning.
• 1:33:17
  HeartMath.
• 1:33:17
  com So from, in terms of Horse Boy World and the education program, there's, and
• 1:33:24
  it's a, Candace Burt, and she was just quoted in a podcast I saw yesterday
• 1:33:30
  on, I think I was listening to a stem cell podcast, and, and her work.
• 1:33:38
  Because that's where I got the idea when I realized That why T Touch works
• 1:33:43
  to release fear at the cellular level.
• 1:33:45
  And then Rupert, do you know of her book?
• 1:33:48
  She proved her book, The Molecules of Emotion by Dr.
• 1:33:52
  Candice Pert.
• 1:33:54
  P E R T.
• 1:33:54
  How do you, how
• 1:33:55
  Rupert Isaacson: do you spell PERT?
• 1:33:55
  P
• 1:33:56
  Linda Tellington Jones: E R T.
• 1:33:57
  PERT, P
• 1:33:57
  Rupert Isaacson: E R T, Dr.
• 1:33:58
  Candace PERT, the molecules of, the molecule of emotion.
• 1:34:02
  Linda Tellington Jones: Molecules of emotion.
• 1:34:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Molecules of emotion.
• 1:34:04
  I don't know this book.
• 1:34:05
  I will, I will, I will go and look at it.
• 1:34:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: The thing that's significant about it, her work,
• 1:34:11
  of course, her professor received was one of the Nobel Prize nominations.
• 1:34:17
  didn't receive it, but it was, it was one of the Possibilities because she,
• 1:34:24
  what she proved is that our cells hold our emo, our, our emotions.
• 1:34:31
  And that through these chemical connections to the brain,
• 1:34:34
  we think it's in our head.
• 1:34:35
  And that's why you can talk all you want.
• 1:34:37
  But that's why I know that with these light tea touches that do not activate
• 1:34:42
  fear because of discomfort or pain.
• 1:34:45
  That we can release fear.
• 1:34:49
  Yeah.
• 1:34:49
  And how, what's important for you and your program.
• 1:34:54
  I, I was going to grab my pod.
• 1:34:57
  I just did a webinar on it last week, but you know, heart, you, HeartMath
• 1:35:03
  Institute sells these little things, it's called an M Wave, E M W A V E,
• 1:35:09
  and it's a handheld computer, you clip to your ear, and when you go into
• 1:35:15
  heart coherence in the, state of the parasympathetic nervous system state.
• 1:35:22
  It has a little song, a tune, a different tune and different color.
• 1:35:27
  And when you're riding a horse, when you go in that state, which
• 1:35:31
  they, which you can get in yourself from gratitude and singing,
• 1:35:37
  singing, humming, singing, humming,
• 1:35:39
  Rupert Isaacson: yeah, humming,
• 1:35:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: singing and movement.
• 1:35:42
  So like if you had a kid, you know, who has.
• 1:35:45
  the ability to move, putting a soft stick in their hand and have them direct the
• 1:35:52
  horse from above, you know, play and make these big movements with this, or
• 1:35:57
  calling in the angels or the horse angels around and having them move up there.
• 1:36:02
  It's amazing what happens.
• 1:36:04
  And if you can get them to do this, Rupert, making the movement with
• 1:36:08
  the stick and the infinity sign, wow, that's a whole other way to put
• 1:36:14
  us in this parasympathetic state.
• 1:36:15
  You know, do you know the infinity?
• 1:36:18
  Rupert Isaacson: I do know the infinity sign and I do it as a,
• 1:36:21
  with my fingers on myself in any areas I have stiffness or pain.
• 1:36:26
  Linda Tellington Jones: Oh cool.
• 1:36:27
  Rupert Isaacson: And it, yes it works, but I haven't actually been
• 1:36:29
  doing it on the horses very much.
• 1:36:30
  I do all sorts of spider fingery, caressy things as I ride them
• 1:36:34
  and so on as I work them.
• 1:36:37
  But I haven't actually been doing the infinity singular.
• 1:36:39
  I should.
• 1:36:41
  Yeah.
• 1:36:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, I learned it because in
• 1:36:46
  1972, I was one of 40 people who were measured for the activation
• 1:36:52
  of left and right hemispheres by Russell Tark, the director of
• 1:36:56
  the Stanford Research Institute.
• 1:36:58
  We were in a weekend workshop with Robert Munro, and,
• 1:37:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Who's Robert Munro?
• 1:37:05
  Linda Tellington Jones: He's the Robert Monroe Institute.
• 1:37:08
  Just write it down.
• 1:37:09
  Oh, the
• 1:37:09
  Rupert Isaacson: Monroe Institute, yes.
• 1:37:11
  Linda Tellington Jones: That was before there was an institute.
• 1:37:13
  And he was at Esalen Institute where he was doing a workshop.
• 1:37:16
  And I was one of the workshops.
• 1:37:18
  People in the workshop and Russell Tarr.
• 1:37:20
  By the way,
• 1:37:21
  Rupert Isaacson: just just for people listening.
• 1:37:22
  The Monroe Institute is Center education center.
• 1:37:26
  It's this it's probably the world's leading center for
• 1:37:29
  study of human consciousness.
• 1:37:31
  Okay, Monroe Institute Okay, so just just go on.
• 1:37:34
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, that's important to say and so we were
• 1:37:37
  everybody in that class was being It was an invitational thing was being
• 1:37:42
  measured by by Russell Tark, and he said that I had the closest to a 50 50 use
• 1:37:48
  of left and right hemispheres, which I couldn't believe because I didn't
• 1:37:51
  think I was a very logical person.
• 1:37:53
  So I, after I left that weekend, I got the book Drawing from the Right Side of
• 1:37:59
  the Brain by Betty Edwards, and she had all of these exercises Of writing in the
• 1:38:05
  air, writing your name in the air with your right hand, writing it backwards
• 1:38:09
  with right and left hand, and doing just infinity and just, you know, going out to
• 1:38:15
  the outer edges of the universe and coming around the outside, imagining all of this,
• 1:38:21
  imagining coming, of course, up through this end of the earth and up through
• 1:38:25
  the body and then going the other way.
• 1:38:28
  And it was really, I did it for months.
• 1:38:30
  And it really made a difference, but the thing is that we can measure.
• 1:38:34
  with the M Wave.
• 1:38:36
  You know HeartMath Institute?
• 1:38:37
  I do
• 1:38:38
  Rupert Isaacson: and I was going to actually ask you to elucidate
• 1:38:40
  a bit more about HeartMath because not everybody listening
• 1:38:43
  to this does know about HeartMath.
• 1:38:44
  So just get through what you're saying there and I'm going to ask you to talk to
• 1:38:47
  us in more detail about HeartMath please.
• 1:38:48
  Linda Tellington Jones: Right, so anyway so I've, I've been so interested in
• 1:38:52
  this right and left hemispheres and I think it's so important to be on
• 1:38:57
  earth at this time, having the logic of the left brain without having this
• 1:39:03
  judgment of right and wrong, black and white, and that's what the right brain
• 1:39:07
  does to us with movement, color, art, you know, all imagining, imagining.
• 1:39:15
  So the more you can do wearing these great capes and choosing your cape
• 1:39:22
  and then making these movements.
• 1:39:24
  What I did with some kids that I worked with at the Eugen farm in
• 1:39:28
  Stuttgart many, many years ago was having them take like a stick.
• 1:39:33
  A riding whip.
• 1:39:34
  Actually, I don't think I gave them, I think I gave them a stick,
• 1:39:37
  I didn't want them to have a whip.
• 1:39:39
  And have, have these hyperactive kids being the circus directors.
• 1:39:43
  And standing in the middle of the ring with me, you know, telling the kids
• 1:39:46
  who are leading the horses what to do.
• 1:39:49
  And, of course, you know, I don't have to tell you, but, it's, I think it's as
• 1:39:54
  much pleasure for us as it is for me.
• 1:39:57
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 1:39:59
  Absolutely.
• 1:40:00
  I live vicariously my childhood over again every day.
• 1:40:04
  When I'm working with the kids, it's like, this is the childhood I wish I'd had.
• 1:40:07
  And, you know, here we go.
• 1:40:08
  I can have it with you.
• 1:40:11
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:40:11
  And, and doing like the NLP stuff with the kids.
• 1:40:14
  I remember another little girl at the Ugan farmer was coming for
• 1:40:17
  therapy in the afternoon with.
• 1:40:20
  And she was, she could never stay still.
• 1:40:22
  And so she was skipping a lot.
• 1:40:25
  So I just skipped with her into the ring and then said, you
• 1:40:28
  know, we have to be really quiet.
• 1:40:31
  So we don't, so the horses will listen to us.
• 1:40:33
  And of course, as soon as you do that, they start following you.
• 1:40:37
  Rupert Isaacson: Play what
• 1:40:38
  Linda Tellington Jones: you're talking about there.
• 1:40:41
  Rupert Isaacson: You know,
• 1:40:45
  Brain derived neurotrophic factor, that is neuroplasticity, that is
• 1:40:49
  neurogenesis, that's what we're all looking for, comes through play.
• 1:40:53
  Obviously, riding a horse or being with a horse, if we are approaching it in a
• 1:40:58
  joyful manner, is automatically play.
• 1:41:02
  It's automatically going to be good for our brains.
• 1:41:05
  Tell us, though, you, you've mentioned heart math.
• 1:41:09
  And obviously, I think anyone in our field ought to be aware of it, but
• 1:41:13
  it's, again, it's not necessarily as common knowledge as it should be,
• 1:41:17
  despite the fact that, you know, they now help to advise the G7 summit.
• 1:41:24
  Talk to us about heart math.
• 1:41:26
  How, how did you come across them?
• 1:41:27
  And what do you, where do you think they're helpful?
• 1:41:30
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, I, I came across them first in it was 19 I think
• 1:41:36
  98 or 99, and I signed up for a weekend, which they were doing, just because a
• 1:41:44
  friend of mine had gone to it, and it made such a difference to him in this
• 1:41:49
  concept of activating both hemispheres, and I was, of course, already interested
• 1:41:56
  in that since, you know, the 72.
• 1:41:59
  And so, as it turned out, I wasn't able to go to that
• 1:42:02
  workshop, but over the years with.
• 1:42:04
  I had a lot of connections with them.
• 1:42:07
  And they're, they sent a doctor to us who was a new on the staff and sent it to us
• 1:42:15
  in Hawaii to, because they knew what TCH can do to release fear and in case in,
• 1:42:23
  in cases of like, what do you call it?
• 1:42:27
  Earthquakes and
• 1:42:28
  Rupert Isaacson: natural disasters,
• 1:42:29
  Linda Tellington Jones: natural disasters.
• 1:42:31
  And that's what heart, they do with their heart mass, they do
• 1:42:34
  it with a form of breathing.
• 1:42:36
  And they measure that, and it puts you out of the state of fear into the
• 1:42:42
  parasympathetic state with this M Wave.
• 1:42:45
  And I recommend, just go online, all of you, listen to this, and they have
• 1:42:49
  free, wonderful, many, many weekends.
• 1:42:53
  I think almost every weekend there's some incredible person from around the
• 1:42:57
  world visionary, giving a big talk.
• 1:43:01
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 1:43:02
  We have there's a person I work with quite closely now called Kansas Carradine who
• 1:43:07
  works a lot with heart math and she brings this into every aspect of, of horsemanship
• 1:43:13
  with trying to look through the lens, looking through the lens of the heart,
• 1:43:17
  showing people how to do that and why is that physically good for you as well as
• 1:43:20
  mentally and emotionally good for you.
• 1:43:22
  There was a really interesting study, which She turned me on to,
• 1:43:26
  from the University of Kassel, here in Germany, which, it's, that's
• 1:43:30
  quite a big deal, University Kassel.
• 1:43:32
  Way back in the 90s that was measuring the emission of photons, light
• 1:43:37
  particles, from the human heart.
• 1:43:41
  when people were consciously thinking loving thoughts and how, how far
• 1:43:49
  out those photons were going.
• 1:43:52
  So therefore we can absolutely project love and what is joy, but love, you
• 1:44:01
  know, that the, these things were actually being measured by quite hard
• 1:44:06
  nose, German universities 30 years ago.
• 1:44:10
  It's so interesting how these things are not more common knowledge and So she
• 1:44:15
  turned me on to this study just about ten days ago, and I'd never heard of it.
• 1:44:18
  So I thought, gosh, is that legit?
• 1:44:20
  You know, so I went and looked it up and found the study, and yep, there we go.
• 1:44:24
  Knocked me down with a feather, there it is.
• 1:44:26
  And HeartMath, I remember you were the first person to talk to me about
• 1:44:29
  HeartMath, and we had been wondering in Horseboy Method why What we call
• 1:44:34
  the sensory work, where you're lying body to body on a horse that's static.
• 1:44:39
  Why does this work so well?
• 1:44:40
  Why does this regulate the nervous system so well?
• 1:44:44
  Why does this bring people into a state of joy and bliss, the horse too?
• 1:44:48
  Why does This work and you I think the first person to point out, Aru, you
• 1:44:56
  should look at the heart math thing what's going on here is you're effectively
• 1:44:59
  plugging your small human heart into the mains of this huge horse heart and
• 1:45:06
  the electromagnetic field that's coming through that is coming into your heart
• 1:45:09
  and that's bringing heart coherence and this is impacting you positively
• 1:45:14
  on every single level But you were the first person to point that out to us.
• 1:45:19
  Yeah
• 1:45:20
  Linda Tellington Jones: I'm so glad you've, it's such, I mean, I think
• 1:45:22
  it's one of the most important institutions on the planet from
• 1:45:25
  the work that they have done.
• 1:45:26
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:45:27
  It's
• 1:45:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: amazing.
• 1:45:28
  And, you know, one thing I wanted to add to what would be your
• 1:45:32
  listeners could do for those who are doing assisted therapy from the
• 1:45:36
  ground, and a lot of people do it.
• 1:45:38
  Mm-Hmm.
• 1:45:38
  We found that, just put your hand, one hand on the chest of a
• 1:45:43
  horse and the other hand on the withers on the ones you can reach.
• 1:45:47
  Rupert Isaacson: And just one hand on the chest of a horse.
• 1:45:48
  One hand on the withers.
• 1:45:49
  Okay.
• 1:45:50
  Linda Tellington Jones: And I, Rupert, I have had letters from
• 1:45:53
  people who said it transported them into a total other dimension.
• 1:45:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.
• 1:45:58
  Linda Tellington Jones: Just something happened.
• 1:46:00
  Is
• 1:46:01
  Rupert Isaacson: this a horse standing still?
• 1:46:02
  Is this a horse moving?
• 1:46:03
  Linda Tellington Jones: No, standing still, just standing there.
• 1:46:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm hmm.
• 1:46:06
  Linda Tellington Jones: You know, and what happens, you see, the T touch
• 1:46:10
  is not a massage, it's a message.
• 1:46:12
  It's a message.
• 1:46:14
  to make this connection to this phenomenal scientist now in this book.
• 1:46:20
  I don't know if you've heard of this.
• 1:46:21
  It's it's one of the latest, it's called The Song of the Cell, of the Cell.
• 1:46:29
  The Song
• 1:46:29
  Rupert Isaacson: of the Cell.
• 1:46:30
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, An Exploration of Medicine and the New Human.
• 1:46:34
  An
• 1:46:34
  Rupert Isaacson: Exploration of Medicine and the New Human or in the New Human?
• 1:46:38
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the New Human.
• 1:46:39
  Rupert Isaacson: And
• 1:46:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: the Pulitzer Prize winner, the Emperor.
• 1:46:44
  Of all maladies.
• 1:46:47
  Can you
• 1:46:47
  Rupert Isaacson: give us the name of the author again?
• 1:46:49
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, it's Eflixam I D D David H A R Richard
• 1:46:56
  T Tom H Henry A Siddhartha And the last name is another very long name,
• 1:47:04
  it's M like Mary, U K H E R J E E.
• 1:47:13
  Mukherjee.
• 1:47:14
  Rupert Isaacson: Mukherjee, Siddhartha Mukherjee.
• 1:47:19
  Okay, Indian or Nepali, I presume.
• 1:47:24
  Linda Tellington Jones: And you know, one of the things that's interesting, I never
• 1:47:27
  told you this, but up here, I have a, it's a, It's a PhD thesis written by an Iranian
• 1:47:38
  on the effects of TTouch on Ang angina.
• 1:47:43
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:47:44
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:47:45
  And because they found it really works just and you can do it yourself.
• 1:47:50
  That's the thing that's so interesting with it.
• 1:47:52
  And we have one of our practitioners he's a Portuguese, born from tech from Austin.
• 1:48:00
  And he swears that T Touch saved his life because he had such, such what
• 1:48:07
  do you call it his heart racing.
• 1:48:08
  I forget what that's called.
• 1:48:11
  I'm really,
• 1:48:12
  Rupert Isaacson: well, panic attacks, basically.
• 1:48:14
  Yeah,
• 1:48:15
  Linda Tellington Jones: they were.
• 1:48:15
  No, it's when the horse just races and he was able to with T Touch.
• 1:48:19
  He's been able to overcome it.
• 1:48:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:48:22
  Linda Tellington Jones: Because he came into the dog trainings
• 1:48:25
  and of course, in all, every dog training, we always teach people to
• 1:48:29
  do teach on, to touch on themselves.
• 1:48:32
  Yeah, and this is the thing about heart math, the fact that they have
• 1:48:36
  that M wave and you can measure when you come into this activation of the
• 1:48:41
  forebrain for learning and overriding the primitive part of the brain for panic.
• 1:48:48
  And then the other.
• 1:48:49
  A huge influence in my life, Rupert, has been Jerry Jampolsky.
• 1:48:54
  You know, he he is the author of many, many books, and the one that
• 1:48:58
  we use all the time in our trainings is Love is Letting Go of Fear.
• 1:49:03
  Rupert Isaacson: Love is letting go of fear.
• 1:49:04
  Linda Tellington Jones: Fear, yeah.
• 1:49:06
  Yeah.
• 1:49:06
  I, I had an experience 1984 at the Chris Griscombe's Light Institute in Galisteu.
• 1:49:14
  I was having a session with what they call needles to the sky points,
• 1:49:20
  acupuncture needles in the head.
• 1:49:22
  And I suddenly could feel that every cell in my body.
• 1:49:31
  It held the fear of all humans on the planet.
• 1:49:35
  We all do.
• 1:49:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
• 1:49:37
  Linda Tellington Jones: we're, we're an accumulation.
• 1:49:39
  It's not just the ancestors, just seven generations.
• 1:49:43
  It's everybody.
• 1:49:45
  Rupert Isaacson: And
• 1:49:45
  Linda Tellington Jones: so I was doing a session to release
• 1:49:47
  that just from knowing it.
• 1:49:50
  And I, I went for a walk with Chris after, and I said, okay, so Chris, when we, when
• 1:49:57
  we release these, this fear in the cells.
• 1:50:01
  What's left?
• 1:50:03
  Of course, it's love.
• 1:50:04
  And that's where Jerry Jampolsky and his Center for Attitudinal
• 1:50:08
  Healing comes in, because I've worked with him for many, many years.
• 1:50:12
  The Center
• 1:50:14
  Rupert Isaacson: for Attitudinal Healing.
• 1:50:15
  Linda Tellington Jones: Center.
• 1:50:16
  Rupert Isaacson: The sense of attitudinal healing.
• 1:50:18
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah,
• 1:50:23
  and this is something they put out, and it's like,
• 1:50:28
  Joy comes with forgiveness.
• 1:50:30
  This is, may every step you take be one of forgiveness.
• 1:50:34
  It's the attitudinalhealing.
• 1:50:37
  org.
• 1:50:39
  He just died a couple of years ago.
• 1:50:41
  I can't remember if he was close to 100, but I knew him very well.
• 1:50:46
  And his wife, Diane Terenzioni.
• 1:50:49
  And we did a workshop together in Australia for, for ourselves, for
• 1:50:53
  for soul retrieval, our own souls.
• 1:50:58
  And just this concept of forgiveness, it's, that is forgiving ourselves
• 1:51:04
  when we make a mistake, forgiving others, you know, this whole concept.
• 1:51:08
  You must know of Hooponopono, right?
• 1:51:10
  Rupert Isaacson: I do.
• 1:51:11
  But could you please explain that for our listeners?
• 1:51:14
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yes.
• 1:51:15
  And it's a, it's a Hawaiian prayer of forgiveness.
• 1:51:20
  And actually, one of my very favorite books is a German book by, written
• 1:51:24
  by Rupert Dupre, and anybody that's interested, go on YouTube, because he
• 1:51:29
  has wonderful free talks all the time.
• 1:51:32
  And the Hawaiian, it's four phrases, the basic, and it's really simple, and
• 1:51:39
  it saved me in some amazing situations.
• 1:51:42
  It's I'm sorry, or whatever it is.
• 1:51:45
  Please forgive me.
• 1:51:47
  Thank you.
• 1:51:48
  Because the forgiveness is done.
• 1:51:50
  And I love you.
• 1:51:52
  And it's the I love you that stops most people because they think it's
• 1:51:56
  only to love someone else but actually it's also just as hard for most people
• 1:52:02
  to say I love ourselves because as western people we're taught that
• 1:52:07
  it's you shouldn't love yourself.
• 1:52:09
  It's kind of an interesting thing.
• 1:52:11
  But, I tell you where I learned how to say that and mean it
• 1:52:15
  in every person I look at.
• 1:52:18
  whether there's a problem or not.
• 1:52:20
  And it's, it's actually through a book called the Book of Ho'oponopono.
• 1:52:27
  Let me spell it for you.
• 1:52:29
  Okay.
• 1:52:30
  Or do you have it?
• 1:52:31
  You know it?
• 1:52:31
  Rupert Isaacson: No, I'm, I'm, I'm writing down the four stages of the prayer first.
• 1:52:35
  So I'm sorry for dot, dot, dot.
• 1:52:38
  I'm sorry
• 1:52:38
  Linda Tellington Jones: for whatever.
• 1:52:39
  It doesn't matter.
• 1:52:39
  Rupert Isaacson: Please forgive me.
• 1:52:41
  Linda Tellington Jones: Thank you.
• 1:52:42
  Rupert Isaacson: I love you.
• 1:52:44
  And you can say this to yourself as well as to somebody else.
• 1:52:47
  Linda Tellington Jones: Exactly.
• 1:52:48
  For anything you do.
• 1:52:49
  Or to a horse, or a dog, or something they do.
• 1:52:53
  Now, the thing is
• 1:52:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so, give us the strange Hawaiian name for this.
• 1:52:59
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yes, it's capital H O, apostrophe, O P O
• 1:53:06
  N O, and then repeat it again.
• 1:53:09
  O P O N O.
• 1:53:10
  Ho'oponopono.
• 1:53:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Ho'oponopono.
• 1:53:16
  Please, I'm sorry for blah.
• 1:53:20
  Please forgive me.
• 1:53:22
  Thank you.
• 1:53:23
  Linda Tellington Jones: I love you.
• 1:53:25
  And it's the I love you that stops most people because they
• 1:53:27
  certainly can't love something they think we did something wrong.
• 1:53:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes,
• 1:53:32
  Linda Tellington Jones: and it's essential for our, our joy, actually.
• 1:53:40
  And
• 1:53:41
  Rupert Isaacson: do we need to make self forgiveness a practice if we're going to
• 1:53:46
  even think about helping anybody else?
• 1:53:52
  Linda Tellington Jones: Well, that would be a judgment on my part,
• 1:53:54
  but I think that If you have any feeling of guilt, absolutely.
• 1:53:59
  Rupert Isaacson: If you
• 1:53:59
  Linda Tellington Jones: know that you've been doing the very best you
• 1:54:01
  can, forgive whatever you've done.
• 1:54:05
  I mean, Rupert, those of us who've worked with horses for many, many
• 1:54:10
  years have done things to horses that we would never do today.
• 1:54:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
• 1:54:14
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the beautiful thing is horses forgive us.
• 1:54:17
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes, they do.
• 1:54:18
  Linda Tellington Jones: That's the thing.
• 1:54:19
  And there's no reason to feel guilty because we were
• 1:54:21
  only doing the best we could.
• 1:54:24
  And but what I find most people can't do is say I love you to
• 1:54:28
  themselves if they've made a mistake.
• 1:54:30
  Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
• 1:54:30
  Well, we're because we're brought up to completely not do that.
• 1:54:35
  That's drummed out of us so early that that's one of the most radical acts
• 1:54:39
  of rebellion anyone can make is to say they love I love you to yourself.
• 1:54:43
  That's a total disruption of our entire societal norm.
• 1:54:48
  The church can't operate with that.
• 1:54:50
  You know, I don't mean Christianity.
• 1:54:51
  I don't mean, I don't mean spirituality.
• 1:54:55
  I don't mean, I don't mean Christ.
• 1:54:57
  I mean the church.
• 1:54:59
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:01
  Yeah, you can't operate with if people are going around saying they
• 1:55:03
  love themselves all the time because then you don't need an intermediary
• 1:55:06
  Between them and Christ or between them and God that they're all right.
• 1:55:10
  So they don't need to pay you a tithe and you know, yeah
• 1:55:15
  Linda Tellington Jones: How you can overcome this dear listener,
• 1:55:18
  Rupert Isaacson: okay
• 1:55:19
  Linda Tellington Jones: And I I would I wouldn't have known because you
• 1:55:22
  know, like how do you forgive somebody who's done something horrendous to you?
• 1:55:28
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm hmm
• 1:55:29
  Linda Tellington Jones: That's, quote, unforgivable, right?
• 1:55:32
  And it's in, it's in the book of Ho'oponopono.
• 1:55:37
  Rupert Isaacson: The book of Ho'oponopono.
• 1:55:40
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah, and it's by Luke, L U C B O D A N, he's a M.
• 1:55:48
  D.
• 1:55:49
  And two others.
• 1:55:50
  By Luke
• 1:55:50
  Rupert Isaacson: Bodon.
• 1:55:51
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:55:52
  And it's Luke Bodon and another Bodon, I forget her name, I don't
• 1:55:56
  know if it's wife or daughter.
• 1:55:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm hmm.
• 1:56:00
  Linda Tellington Jones: And a third one, so it's, the reason it's important
• 1:56:03
  to know it's by three authors, because he's written many books,
• 1:56:06
  Rupert Isaacson: and
• 1:56:07
  Linda Tellington Jones: it's the one by three, and in it is the explanation that
• 1:56:12
  I got from one of my Swiss friends who reads French, I was fluent in French.
• 1:56:17
  She said that I love you is addressed to the divine consciousness
• 1:56:22
  in every cell in the body.
• 1:56:24
  It's to the divine within.
• 1:56:26
  I can say that to anybody, no matter what they've done.
• 1:56:29
  When you recognize that forgiveness is, it's necessary to
• 1:56:34
  change our world and the world.
• 1:56:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Wise words, Linda, and definitely words that we want to be
• 1:56:48
  holding in our hearts and our heads and our guts while we're wandering around
• 1:56:54
  Boris with ponies and people on them.
• 1:57:00
  This, we have, we have passed the two hour mark.
• 1:57:04
  All this leaves me is wanting more so there I would like to come back
• 1:57:13
  to you with this And can we go back into equine assisted world with you?
• 1:57:18
  in a few weeks and let's look at this whole concept of self disregard, let's say
• 1:57:30
  and how we can begin to dance with this in a way that we can create healing and
• 1:57:41
  joy, and then again how this might work in the equestrian context and in the You know
• 1:57:49
  that we could just go so much deeper here and I haven't even asked you about tendons
• 1:57:53
  and fitness and All these other things that we need to talk about too Which are
• 1:57:57
  what I love about the conversations with you is that they go from the absolutely
• 1:58:00
  practical like, you know If you touch like this or if you pay attention to this
• 1:58:05
  ligament or you know if you pay attention to the fascia to of course the absolute
• 1:58:10
  spiritual because how can you Separate one from the other because the cells
• 1:58:15
  are the spirit the spirits are the cells and then back again And then you bring
• 1:58:20
  it down to really useful techniques.
• 1:58:21
  Okay, this circle and a half way of touching Sorry,
• 1:58:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: a circle and a quarter.
• 1:58:28
  Rupert Isaacson: A circle and a quarter.
• 1:58:29
  Sorry a circle and a quarter moving the skin lightly and the Tarantula
• 1:58:35
  pulling the plow and I know of many many other forms of tea touch which have
• 1:58:40
  amazing effects on Horses and humans, so please let's Come back to this.
• 1:58:47
  Linda Tellington Jones: Can we give your, your listeners like
• 1:58:50
  the first book on forgiveness?
• 1:58:54
  The Hawaiian Book of Forgiveness that I recommend is a German author.
• 1:58:59
  Ulrich Dupre, D-U-P-R-E-E.
• 1:59:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Do
• 1:59:06
  Linda Tellington Jones: Dupre
• 1:59:06
  Rupert Isaacson: Dupre.
• 1:59:07
  DU like the French, D-U-P-R-E, Ulrich.
• 1:59:10
  Dupre, yeah.
• 1:59:11
  Linda Tellington Jones: Two E's.
• 1:59:12
  Two E's on the end.
• 1:59:13
  Oh,
• 1:59:13
  Rupert Isaacson: two E's Dupre.
• 1:59:14
  Okay.
• 1:59:14
  Ulrich Dupre.
• 1:59:16
  Linda Tellington Jones: And then, and that's like a wonderful overview of the
• 1:59:20
  work that will give you what you can make a huge difference in your, what's
• 1:59:23
  Rupert Isaacson: the title of the book?
• 1:59:24
  Linda Tellington Jones: Ho Ano.
• 1:59:26
  Rupert Isaacson: Ho Ano, okay.
• 1:59:27
  Yeah.
• 1:59:27
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the subtitle, look here.
• 1:59:33
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:59:35
  Linda Tellington Jones: Subtitle.
• 1:59:36
  It's a little tiny book.
• 1:59:37
  A little little book.
• 1:59:39
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:59:40
  I see it.
• 1:59:40
  Okay.
• 1:59:40
  A small, A slim Volume.
• 1:59:42
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 1:59:43
  And it's the Hawaiian Forgiveness Ritual as the key to your life.
• 1:59:49
  Life's Fulfillment.
• 1:59:51
  Rupert Isaacson: Hawaiian forgiveness, ritual
• 1:59:57
  as the key
• 2:00:00
  to your life's.
• 2:00:03
  Linda Tellington Jones: Yeah.
• 2:00:03
  Fulfillment.
• 2:00:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Fulfillment.
• 2:00:05
  Brilliant.
• 2:00:06
  Linda Tellington Jones: And the book of Ho Bono.
• 2:00:08
  It's a Hawaiian practice of forgiveness and healing and
• 2:00:12
  the, and it's, I always get it.
• 2:00:14
  It's Luke, B-O-D-I-N,
• 2:00:16
  Rupert Isaacson: Bodin.
• 2:00:17
  Okay.
• 2:00:18
  Linda Tellington Jones: And Natalie Bodin, lab boy
• 2:00:21
  Rupert Isaacson: and Natalie Bodin, the book of hot opponent porn
• 2:00:25
  Linda Tellington Jones: and John Garcia.
• 2:00:28
  But you'll find it.
• 2:00:29
  Three.
• 2:00:30
  Yes.
• 2:00:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 2:00:32
  I've got my reading list and we'll pick it up When we reconvene on this because
• 2:00:39
  now for listeners who want to know more about t touch, what do they do?
• 2:00:42
  Where do they go?
• 2:00:45
  Linda Tellington Jones: We're just in the process of modernizing our website.
• 2:00:49
  So what we have now is just go to t touch.
• 2:00:51
  com
• 2:00:52
  Rupert Isaacson: t touch.
• 2:00:53
  com.
• 2:00:54
  Yeah easy
• 2:00:55
  Linda Tellington Jones: Or, yeah, if you want to actually get a free
• 2:00:58
  introduction to it, go to learn.
• 2:01:02
  ttouch.
• 2:01:04
  ca for Canada.
• 2:01:06
  That's my sister Robin Hood.
• 2:01:09
  Rupert Isaacson: I love that she's called Robin Hood.
• 2:01:10
  Linda Tellington Jones: I know, my maiden name is Hood.
• 2:01:12
  She's 15 years younger than I and works around the world like I do.
• 2:01:16
  And I was able to, I named her.
• 2:01:20
  She kept that when she married Feel Pretty.
• 2:01:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Wow.
• 2:01:24
  Okay.
• 2:01:27
  Okay.
• 2:01:31
  All I can say listeners is
• 2:01:35
  we can all use mentors.
• 2:01:40
  Every.
• 2:01:41
  good thing that I do or have done has come from a mentor.
• 2:01:46
  Linda is one of our primary mentors.
• 2:01:52
  Don't do yourself out of the opportunity to be mentored by Linda Turlington Jones.
• 2:01:57
  There are many books.
• 2:01:59
  You can learn her stuff online, you'll see Just go on ttouch.com.
• 2:02:06
  Linda Tellington Jones: It's also on YouTube.
• 2:02:07
  We have stuff on under my right.
• 2:02:09
  Rupert Isaacson: Just go down the rabbit hole and we'll be having Linda back on.
• 2:02:14
  Also, if you want to know Linda's life story and how she arrived at all of
• 2:02:18
  this, go across to our other podcast, live Free, ride Free, where we talk
• 2:02:23
  about self-actualization, people living self-actualized lives, and.
• 2:02:27
  She tells us her autobiography there and how all this happened because
• 2:02:32
  it's good to have that background
• 2:02:36
  Okay, so you'll be hearing more from Linda this show.
• 2:02:40
  All right, Linda.
• 2:02:41
  Thank you
• 2:02:43
  Linda Tellington Jones: Until the next time.
• 2:02:45
  Rupert Isaacson: All right.
• 2:02:46
  Linda Tellington Jones: Hey Rupert made the force be with you.
• 2:02:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Haha.
• 2:02:50
  May it be with you, too
• 2:02:51
  thank you for joining us.
• 2:02:52
  We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
• 2:02:54
  Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online
• 2:02:59
  courses and live workshops in Horse Boy Method, movement Method, and Athena.
• 2:03:05
  These evidence-based programs have helped children, veterans, and people
• 2:03:10
  dealing with trauma around the world.
• 2:03:12
  We also offer a horse training program and self-care program
• 2:03:16
  for riders on long ride home.com.
• 2:03:19
  These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that
• 2:03:23
  bring you and your horse joy.
• 2:03:26
  For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.
• 2:03:31
  See you on the next show.
• 2:03:32
  And please remember to press, subscribe and share.